New York is first major U.S. city to mandate vaccines for restaurants, gyms

Good. I hope more states and municipalities follow their lead.

It’ll be like the roaring twenties again when there was prohibition.

Ahh yes, people are going to get drunk on masks. It'll be just like the roaring 20s again.

Perhaps the metaphor flew right over your head.

LoL no, it was a stupid metaphor. It isn't going to create a black market. Most New Yorkers aren't pathetic losers that refuse to follow the rules of society.

This will just increase crime as black markets will pop up to serve the disenfranchised. It’ll be like the roaring twenties again when there was prohibition.

Ah yes, I can already see all the black market gyms opening up in dirty New York basements.

With coronavirus cases again surging in the United States

Yet the pandemic deniers and others in the far far right persist in claiming the real problem is someone telling them what to do, they want to continue to believe it's just another flu that will go away.

And the far rightists call the growing number of accounts of death bed converts begging for a vaccination fake news.

Many in the he far right trust something an anonymous poster on 8 chan wrote, instead of what government and medical experts have found through proper research.

How are things in Florida going, where a far far right governor and his fellow rich thugs (backed by others in their QGOP) are seeing hospitalizations and deaths increasing, and the medical professions further burdened.

"If you're vaccinated... you have the key, you can open the door. But if you're unvaccinated, unfortunately, you will not be able to participate in many things," de Blasio told a press conference.

In NYC, there have always been bars to participation in many aspects of public life: the doorman evaluating the fashion and the status of those wanting to enter an establishment, the tip that must be given to get to the head of the line for tickets to a popular show or to make a reservation (or not need one) and a hot restaurant.

Hierarchies are a fact of life in the societies we have created.

This is a new one...

"people should have the right to refuse a vaccine that has not gone under long-term testing while still being able to frequent establishments"

No, you do not have a right to demand entry into a private business. The owner does have the right to deny you entry. No vaccine, no entry. Sounds eminently sensible to me. Perhaps you could open a restaurant for those who have not been vaccinated. Probably best to do so in the Southern states.

Well done New York. Those that have dropped logical thought and joined a conspiracy cult can have their "freedom". While the rest of us can have our freedom from them.

has the first lawsuit been filed yet?

I'm guessing a lot of business owners will want to avoid being on the front page of the newspaper for sending a dozen people to the hospital from their business.

Yet the pandemic deniers and others in the far far right persist in claiming the real problem is someone telling them what to do, they want to continue to believe it's just another flu that will go away. 

The first part is correct for sure.

And the far rightists call the growing number of accounts of death bed converts begging for a vaccination fake news. 

Depends, it hasn’t changed a lot of minds.

Many in the he far right trust something an anonymous poster on 8 chan wrote, instead of what government and medical experts have found through proper research. 

Given what the government, Fauci, the CDC and the WHO had flipped and flopped and refuse to answer a lot of questions or downplay other medial expert opinions or recorded facts pertaining to short and long term side effects or the fact that the number of people that have been vaccinated are coming down with the virus, not to mention the majority of blacks don’t trust the vaccine and there’s still a lot of distrust to the vaccine and more people are hesitant despite of what the media is forcing people to think.

How are things in Florida going,

Infections are up, and let’s not forget, Florida has one of the largest aging populations in the US and this is yet another reason why people are so skeptical of the media.

Look at Texas

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/07/21/coronavirus-texas-vaccinated-deaths/

where a far far right governor and his fellow rich thugs (backed by others in their QGOP)

The majority of conservatives overwhelmingly don’t know the first thing or are anywhere linked to the group.

DeBlasio trying to leave his mark on way out. At least Eric Adams is much more moderate.

Infections are up, and let’s not forget, Florida has one of the largest aging populations in the US and this is yet another reason why people are so skeptical of the media.

People are skeptical of the media because...Florida has one of the largest aging populations in the US? What?

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/07/21/coronavirus-texas-vaccinated-deaths/

Thank you for pointing out that 99.5% of COVID-related deaths in Texas were among unvaccinated people. I'm not sure that's what you were trying to do, but that's what you just did. So yeah, you're right, everyone should get vaccinated.

Thank you for pointing out that 99.5% of COVID-related deaths in Texas were among unvaccinated people.

Nice try, the numbers overall in Texas are not rising, vaccinated or not, but Florida it is as well as California.

I'm not sure that's what you were trying to do,

Not me, I’m not sure what the left is trying to do, but it’s not working

Nice try, the numbers overall in Texas are not rising, vaccinated or not, but Florida it is as well as California.

Aaaaand... why did you post an article about the dramatic number of unvaccinated deaths in Texas then? How does that illustrate the point you're trying to make?

Rolf Anderson

Many unions and critics of mandates have spoken out against required vaccinations, citing personal freedom arguments.

Add me to the list of spokesmen. Since masks and social distancing and disinfectant are sufficient,

No, they aren't sufficient. Infection rates won't reduce until herd immunity is reached.

people should have the right to refuse a vaccine

They do. Their choice means they are restricted in where they can go to keep everyone healthy.

that has not gone under long-term testing

Vaccines don't have long term effects, so this is a moot point.

while still being able to frequent establishments.

Nope. If you want to frequent establish, you do your part to keep the patrons and staff of those establishments safe and get a vaccine.

Aaaaand... why did you post an article about the dramatic number of unvaccinated deaths in Texas then? How does that illustrate the point you're trying to make?

To make the point that the infections are going up, but there are other contributing factors associated with the deaths, knowing Florida, it would be safe to presume that most of the people hospitalized are not under 30 years of age, add to that other underlying possible medical conditions.

Good. New York is correct. No one needs freedom-hating people who restrict my freedom by entering businesses when they are unvaccinated.

One has to wonder why the unvaccinated hate freedom so much.

To make the point that the infections are going up, but there are other contributing factors associated with the deaths

And the main contributing factor is not being vaccinated, yeah. As you helpfully pointed out with your article. So we agree: everyone should get vaccinated.

knowing Florida, it would be safe to presume that most of the people hospitalized are not under 30 years of age,

And that's a good reason for them to die?!

This mandate does not come from each individual private business, they don't want to lose 30% of their customers.

The government is forcing private businesses to enforce this gestapo papers please rule.

Yeah I remember smokers and the tobacco industry spouting the same type of arguments when general smoking bans were enacted a few years ago. They were quickly proven wrong, weren't they?

This is America. Just say you're banning anti-vaxxers for religious reasons and suddenly you're above the law.

bass4funk

not to mention the majority of blacks don’t trust the vaccine

Vaccine hesitancy is the same in black and white populations. Hispanic and Asian have lower vaccine hesitancy.

Dem leaders fighting the virus...

Repub leaders (DeSantis/Abbott) engage in useless theater fighting critical race theory and transgender bathrooms...while their two states make up one-third of new COVID infections...

Vaccine hesitancy is the same in black and white populations.

Hispanic and Asian have lower vaccine hesitancy.

Well, no when you factor in that blacks are 13% of the population and when you calculate Over 68% and that’s way, way higher than any other ethnic group.

https://researchblog.duke.edu/2021/04/08/black-americans-vaccine-hesitancy-is-grounded-by-more-than-mistrust/

bass4funk

Vaccine hesitancy is the same in black and white populations. 

Hispanic and Asian have lower vaccine hesitancy. 

Well, no when you factor in that blacks are 13% of the population and when you calculate Over 68% and that’s way, way higher than any other ethnic group.

Actually, yes. It doesn't mean they are more vaccinated, but hesitancy is the same as the white population.

https://now.tufts.edu/news-releases/survey-despite-similar-levels-vaccine-hesitancy-white-people-more-likely-be-vaccinated

Rolf Anderson

that has not gone under long-term testing

"Vaccines don't have long term effects, so this is a moot point."

What kind of stupid argument is this???

A vaccine that has only been around for 7 to 8 months can have no long term data..!!! Geez wake up to yourself.

These vaccines are still in the EUA phase even though they are trying to rush through the full approval it won't likely come until December! That still precludes any Long term (2-3 years) side effect data which is the norm.

No wonder there is vaccine hesitancy around with some of the trope being spoken as fact!

On top of which if these drug companies were so confident in their vaccines safety, why in every country that they offer it to does it come with the proviso that they receive indemnity from prosecution???

Actually, yes. It doesn't mean they are more vaccinated, but hesitancy is the same as the white population.

But blacks being smaller in population size makes it higher. This is the thing the media so conveniently skates over.

Vaccine hesitancy is the same in black and white populations.

Hispanic and Asian have lower vaccine hesitancy.

Well, no when you factor in that blacks are 13% of the population and when you calculate Over 68% and that’s way, way higher than any other ethnic group.

OK, so answer this;

"I would recommend it," Mr Trump said during an interview on Fox News Primetime on Tuesday. "I would recommend it to a lot of people that don't want to get it and a lot of those people voted for me, frankly." *He added: "It's a great vaccine, it's a safe vaccine and it's something that works."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/03/16/its-great-vaccine-donald-trump-asks-backers-get-covid-vaccine/4726016001/

Trump supporters, read the highlighted sentence above...Donald Trump, your hero, the person you voted for, is telling you directly to get vaccinated...and that it is safe....

So, why do you refuse his recommendation? You say the vaccine may be unsafe, so why is he lying when he says the vaccine is "safe and something that works"? Why in your view is he spreading dangerous disinformation and putting you and his supporters health at risk?

"I would recommend it," Mr Trump said during an interview on Fox News Primetime on Tuesday. "I would recommend it to a lot of people that don't want to get it and a lot of those people voted for me, frankly." *He added: "It's a great vaccine, it's a safe vaccine and it's something that works."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/03/16/its-great-vaccine-donald-trump-asks-backers-get-covid-vaccine/4726016001/

Trump supporters, read the highlighted sentence above...Donald Trump, your hero, the person you voted for, is telling you directly to get vaccinated...and that it is safe....

Trump didn’t create the vaccine.

So, why do you refuse his recommendation? You say the vaccine may be unsafe, so why is he lying when he says the vaccine is "safe and something that works"? Why in your view is he spreading dangerous disinformation and putting you and his supporters health at risk?

I refuse to listen to any government telling me they will come to my house to give me a jab or that if I don’t get the jab I can’t work, that’s the kind of mildly forced recommendation I won’t accept from any government.

I really don’t know what you obsession with Trump is but I assure you, it’s not helping you and it’s very unhealthy.

Notice that the same people who preach "Equality and Inclusion" on Monday switch to Segregation and Division on Tuesday.

Oh, that's because we're talking about people, and you're talking about a virus.

Entirely different things mate.

*I would recommend it," Mr Trump said during an interview on Fox News Primetime on Tuesday. "I would recommend it to a lot of people that don't want to get it and a lot of those people voted for me, frankly." *He added: "It's a great vaccine, *it's a safe vaccine and it's something that works."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/03/16/its-great-vaccine-donald-trump-asks-backers-get-covid-vaccine/4726016001/

*Trump supporters, read the highlighted sentence above...Donald Trump, your hero, the person you voted for, is telling you directly to get vaccinated...and that it is safe....*

Trump didn’t create the vaccine.

But he's telling YOU, his supporters, to get vaccinated and that it is SAFE....why don't you believe him?

So, why do you refuse his recommendation? You say the vaccine may be unsafe, so why is he lying when he says the vaccine is "safe and something that works"? Why in your view is he spreading dangerous disinformation and putting you and his supporters health at risk?

I refuse to listen to any government telling me they will come to my house to give me a jab or that if I don’t get the jab I can’t work, that’s the kind of mildly forced recommendation I won’t accept from any government.

The government AND TRUMP are telling you to get vaccinated. And as you say above, you are refusing to listen to him....interesting...

I really don’t know what you obsession with Trump is but I assure you, it’s not helping you and it’s very unhealthy.

Unhealthy is refusing to get vaccinated when even your cult leader says to....just ask this Trump supporter...

Payten McCall, 24, and her family were afraid to get vaccinated, but now she's urging people not to make that mistake after losing her oldest brother and her dad to Covid-19. Her dad, Mark McCall, 60, died early Friday morning in the Covid ward of a Jacksonville, Florida, hospital where her mom, Sherry McCall, 58, was also being treated for the virus. The family was already reeling after her brother, Britt McCall, 35, died on Monday. "It has been one of the most, roughest and hardest experiences that I have ever had to go through in my whole life and I would never, ever wish this on anybody in their family,"*

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/florida-covid-19-woman-urges-people-to-get-vaccinated-after-losing-her-dad-and-brother-the-same-week/ar-AAMO55f

*But he's telling YOU, his supporters, *

So is Joe, but Joe wants to make it NOT an option if he has his way. Nope, Nada, Nichts, No way!

Unhealthy is refusing to get vaccinated

No, it’s my right to make that decision and not any politician especially this administration, liberals and Biden don’t know anything about my medical conditions or what is good or bad for me.

We're going to crush you in the courts.

Yeah nah, that won't happend. Unfortunately for you, the Supreme Court isn't on your side.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts

Sanjinosebleed

that has not gone under long-term testing

"Vaccines don't have long term effects, so this is a moot point."

What kind of stupid argument is this???

A vaccine that has only been around for 7 to 8 months can have no long term data..!!! Geez wake up to yourself.

Tell me any other vaccine that has shown to have long term effects.

1976 Swine flu.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200918-the-fiasco-of-the-us-swine-flu-affair-of-1976

But it was just one of many problems that plagued the “swine flu affair of 1976”, when a US president decided to rush a vaccine to the entire American population based on ill-founded science and political imprudence. Lawsuits, side-effects and negative media coverage followed, and the events dented confidence in public health for years to come. What happened might even have laid the foundations for the mistaken anti-vax views and distrust in public health that would spread decades later.

Tell me any other vaccine that has shown to have long term effects.

There are many vaccines with long-term effects. Like immunity. That's the point of them, to my mind.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200918-the-fiasco-of-the-us-swine-flu-affair-of-1976

Excellent article! Very informative.

*As for Imperato, remembering the day he was vaccinated for the cameras and the surrounding chaos gives him some concerns about what’s ahead in 2020. “I really see the beginnings of the same patterns of commentary about the Covid-19 vaccines and the trials,” he says. There’s no reason, he believes, why a mass vaccination effort could not be rolled out quickly, but he worries about the media context it will happen within. *“There are so many talking heads, on television and on social media, commenting on every aspect of this pandemic,” he says. “Their credentials are not matched to what they're commenting on. I refer to them as trespassers.”

The swine flu affair of 1976 holds many lessons for today, says Imperato, and there’s wisdom in the aphorism that those who ignore the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it. Still, throughout his career he has remained a strong advocate for the life-saving properties of vaccines. “You know, all that happened while I was getting my shot, it didn't dissuade me. I still went ahead with it.”

Anything wrong with the program that gave us the vaccine? anything wrong with the vaccine itself?

Not at all. Glad to hear you support the vaccine and getting vaccinated. I'm sure you will make an appointment for your own shots shortly.

no plans for any vaccination here.

Was just checking cause it sounds like someone was criticizing the program that gave Biden "his" vaccine.

but hey a Supreme Court decision from 1905 is totally going to prevent me from flying or going to the gym.

or even entering a supermarket or a store as an unvaccinated person. supposedly.

like there wont be any medical, religious or other exemptions, right? why do you think the policy doesnt go into effect immediately? how does this future restriction help NOW?

Express sister

Tell me any other vaccine that has shown to have long term effects.

There are many vaccines with long-term effects. Like immunity. That's the point of them, to my mind.

Ha ha. Good point. I should have said long term adverse effects.

Nice. I hope more cities, schools, and businesses begin requiring vaccines. Let those of us who are vaccinated be together in safety. Let those who want to risk their lives do so with others who wish the same.

bass4funk

Actually, yes. It doesn't mean they are more vaccinated, but hesitancy is the same as the white population.

But blacks being smaller in population size makes it higher. This is the thing the media so conveniently skates over.

The article surveys the percentage of vaccine hesitancy in each population, so the fact that the black population is smaller makes no difference.

Because, mathematics.

Good move by New York City. J

ust in time to deflate the news bubble around the governor creepy Cuomo.

That decision was made in 1905

Wait, the law cares about dates now? So what you're saying is that since the second amendment was written in 1787, it surely isn't relevant anymore today? That would be a surprising stance.

Checkmate, the US signed the agreement and is bound by it, it legally supercedes the archaic 1905 ruling.

Nah, it doesn't. That what America is all about. Each state has its own laws. Tough luck.

when a US president decided to rush a vaccine to the entire American population based on ill-founded science and political imprudence

Sounds like Operation Warp Speed.

Well, the Dems were the ones screaming and excoriating for Trump to do something, he did, that doesn't mean that just because he put all of his best medical team and gathered the resources he needed to get the vaccine out that I or others are compelled to take it, he did his part and now it is up to the people to decide for himself. When the vaccine is fully FDA-approved, I will probably get it, but until then, I will wait.

Actually, yes. It doesn't mean they are more vaccinated, but hesitancy is the same as the white population.

That's not what the numbers say. Ask the Nation of Islam how they feel about the vaccine. You have overall more whites taking the vaccine because you have more whites in the US and the Stat clearly shows this.

The article surveys the percentage of vaccine hesitancy in each population,

And the black community has a history of being overwhelmingly skeptical and with good historic reason.

bass4funkToday  12:22 pm JST

No, informing people of their rights to ask questions and to go on TV to give possible clues and answers that our government won't give is not riling up, but we do want and ask for an inquiring and at least the man brings forth other points of scientific views on the vaccine to make a properly informed decision.

These are basic rights; funny how the far-left extremists want to take away the right to express those views, when they marched all over the US last year expressing their views by looting, shooting, and torching.

Land of the free?

I do accept such responsibility

Just accept the responsibility that comes with your choice not to get vaccinated instead of trying to make this about governmental overreach.

while also telling you it is government overreach to try to force anyone to take an unapproved vaccine by denying them access for employment or to buy food.

there will obviously be plenty of religious, medical and other exemptions.

I've been refraining from chemical injections my whole life

So you're going to pretend you haven't been vaccinated about polio, measles or tetanus when you were a baby?

When vaccinated people are so insistent that unvaccinated people can’t even be in the same place as they are, it just tells me that you don’t really believe your vaccine and double masks works.

JsapcToday  12:57 pm JST

So you're going to pretend you haven't been vaccinated about polio,

Polio vaccine is not an injection in the US.

Oh, that's because we're talking about people, and you're talking about a virus.

Entirely different things mate.

Explain why you support the idea that Haredi Jews, who are people, not viruses, must be banned from public places just because of their religious beliefs which require them to maintain purity of the body.

Because they are choosing to be unvaccinated, and therefore aren't able to participate with the rest of us. I support their right to choose not to get the vaccine, I don't support my loss of rights to be free from those who are ready to cause injury to my family and I by spreading the virus.

In other words, these people are entitled to all rights of society. But not the privileges. Non-vaccination is not a protected class.

no plans for any vaccination here.

Why?

Was just checking cause it sounds like someone was criticizing the program that gave Biden "his" vaccine.

Who?

Ha ha. Good point. I should have said long term adverse effects.

Quite right, I could not agree with you more.

Who told you this? Don Lemon? Or Chris Cuomo? P. Smith is a huge fan of those two.

Are they? Do you have any evidence of this? Or are you, once again, asserting something that isn't true because "buhhh they watch CNN" is easier for you to dismiss than actual arguments?

P. Smith and I have disagreed about things. But you will note that, during these disagreements, I addressed the points they presented me (and vice-versa). I didn't say, "well, CNN" and make no effort to engage with the argument. Something to think about.

I don't know what channels Don Lemon or Chris Cuomo are on, to be fair. So if they're not on CNN then my statement is reduced in strength. But if they are, then it reveals an avid CNN viewer in our midst — one Commander Perry.

A baby is incapable of saying No and thus can not give consent. Those were not consensual acts.

So did you sue your parents because they violated your pristine body with horrible vaccines (that allowed you to avoid getting sick and dying as a child and grow up to be an adult badmouthing vaccines on the internet)?

An enforcement problem will exist for those that belong to any sort of pre=paid group or organization. Besides gyms, how about season ticket holders for major sports...can these people be legally restricted without recourse or reimbursement?