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New Zealand-Australia row erupts over 'terrorist' dual national

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If you stop handing out passports like hotcakes you won't have to worry about losing out to other countries in the citizenship stripping race.

-12 ( +11 / -23 )

Look Ardern, if you don't want to be the face of leftist ideals and 'virtue signaling' as a leadership strategy anymore, then just say so. In the meantime, those bleeding hearts of yours will have no worries at all taking in this ex ISIS enthusiast. Everyone, after all, deserves forgiveness right? For the children ...

You'll have to excuse Australia for not buying into it though. Sorry mate! We can settle it as always with the rugby at a later date. Catchyaz ;P

-7 ( +11 / -18 )

Hehe, I always love seeing the extremists HATE on Ardern.

She's awesome. She's not even trying to troll them, and yet, she does it better than almost anyone! They get so triggered.

15 ( +26 / -11 )

Ardern is dead right - the woman lived almost her entire life in Australia, was an official citizen, has family there, was supposedly radicalized in Australia, and was travelling on an Australian passport. Now that she is reported to have links to Islamic state, all of sudden she is a New Zealander.

19 ( +24 / -5 )

Couldn't Ardern extend some of that "compassion" to this family she's so famous for displaying? Or is that just virtue signalling for the cameras?

Ardern's brand of wokeism sounds lovely until someone else has to pay the consequences of it.

-13 ( +9 / -22 )

Hehe, I always love seeing the extremists HATE on Ardern.

Some folks just cant handle a woman in power.

8 ( +15 / -7 )

I thought IS had been destroyed.........

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Wakarimasen: I thought IS had been destroyed.........

No you didn't. Nor did anyone else.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

The woman left NZ aged 6 and has lived in Australia ever since.

She went from Australia to Turkey, so NZ should have no responsibility for her.

ScoMo thinks he is a bully, but Arden will put him in his place.

12 ( +17 / -5 )

They could cancel her New Zealand passport too. Then, what happens, she is stuck in Turkey?

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Plenty of misogynists who hate Arden for what she is.

They can fester all they want, Arden has more brains and courage than all of the misogynists put together!!!

7 ( +15 / -8 )

My sack of grapes has a higher IQ than Morrison and Ardern combined.

-13 ( +4 / -17 )

Hehe, I always love seeing the extremists HATE on Ardern.

It has nothing to do with Ardern. It's about the one-sided policies New Zealand has adopted vis a vis Australia which have led to situations like this, and not for the first time.

For example; a non-citizen permanent resident of Australia has the right move, live and work in NZ and if they have a child in NZ it automatically becomes a NZ citizen. Going the other way, a non-citizen permanent resident of NZ has absolutely no right to live and work in Australia, and if they manage to get there by applying for a visa, any child born in Australia won't automatically become an Australian citizen.

It's policies like this which create so many NZ citizens with no real substantial ties to the country.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

Dirty move by Morrison. Cut and run. Doesn't surprise me though.

10 ( +16 / -6 )

They could cancel her New Zealand passport too. Then, what happens, she is stuck in Turkey?

The problem is countries signed up to the UN convention on statelessness can't revoke citizenship if it's the last citizenship a person has. It's a race to strip citizenship before the others do.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

She was travelling on an Australian passport. She's Australia's responsibility.

(I'm neither an Australian nor a New Zealander)

12 ( +15 / -3 )

New Zealand should just do the same and take her passport away. If they don't want to then they need to be responsible for her.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

The woman was born in NZ giving her automatic NZ citizenship. She lived there for six years before moving to Australia with her family. At some point she was granted dual Australian citizenship.

Australia has domestic laws to strip citizens not born there of their Australian citizenship in the event they are found to be terrorists. This woman qualifies under that law. Without Australian citizenship she has only her birth nation citizenship left, which is New Zealand.

Australia has done nothing wrong from its perspective as the woman was born outside of Australia. It could offer diplomatic assistance to New Zealand in dealing with Turkey. Australia and any country has the right to cancel citizenship for terrorists who were born in other countries.

If circumstances were reversed would Ardern take them in no question? Lets face it, nobody wants to take in terrorists because they can indoctrinate others to their cause and create huge problems for the country they end up living in.

No easy solution to be found when finding a suitable home for a terrorist.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

Perhaps the NZ Gov should have canceled the terrorist's citizenship first?

Where was the woman born, and her parents' nationality? If she was born legitimately in NZ, then she belongs to NZ.

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

If she was born legitimately in NZ

If she was born out of wedlock, does that disqualify her???

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Look Ardern, if you don't want to be the face of leftist ideals and 'virtue signaling' as a leadership strategy anymore, then just say so. In the meantime, those bleeding hearts of yours will have no worries at all taking in this ex ISIS enthusiast.

The rightists assume that because a politician takes a position on X then they must hold a a certain position on the unrelated topic Y.

Rather than arbitrarily deciding what other people are meant to believe, why not accept what they believe?

7 ( +11 / -4 )

This is an interesting edge case for the systems to deal with.

She was born in New Zealand after all, so that counts for something, although I appreciate the point that more of her life was spent in Australia.

To be honest I think these passport thingys that government deals out to people are quite an anachronism.

Some folks just cant handle a woman in power.

This may be true for some people, but typically I think people are criticizing her policies, rather than her for her gender, and it’s bad taste to presume that people fall into that sad latter minority, rather than the former. Let’s assume best intentions please!

0 ( +5 / -5 )

kyronstav:

Couldn't Ardern extend some of that "compassion" to this family she's so famous for displaying?

She extends compassion to others based on their behaviour, not on their religion or skin colour. Or is that your mind works?

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Why should anyone show any compassion to an ISIS terrorist !?

7 ( +8 / -1 )

‘Turkish authorities identified her as a member of IS’

by all means, let this ACCUSED ISIS member & any other ACCUSED terrorist stay at your place while awaiting trial

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@Burning Bush

The lady in question has not been given a fair trial and has not had a chance to defend herself against these accusations.

I'm actually with you on this BB. This new trend of stripping people of citizenship runs contrary to the values most of these countries claim to uphold. It's a politically expedient way for politicians to avoid embarrassment.

Countries need to be held accountable for their citizens. The irony is that many of the most fanatical jihadis in ISIS were foreign fighters, because the freedoms in western nations allowed the more fundamentalist versions of Islam to be preached openly. In many Arab countries these fundamentalist preachers have long been outlawed and jailed by authorities.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Ardern should consult with the Muslims in NZ and get their advice. They are usually pretty clear and objective about ISIS.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

She was travelling on an Australian passport. She's Australia's responsibility.

(I'm neither an Australian nor a New Zealander)

I am an Australian citizen, and I agree with you and everyone else who thinks Australia is the one ducking this issue.

Well, I say I'm an Australian citizen, although some of the comments here make me think that as I wasn't born in the country I might only be a provisional one. They didn't mention that at the ceremony.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

But I guess that New Zealand is basically a totalitarian dictatorship as citizens are not granted any trial.

She was stripped of her citizenship by Australia. She was arrested in Turkey by the Turkish authorities.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Well, I say I'm an Australian citizen, although some of the comments here make me think that as I wasn't born in the country I might only be a provisional one. They didn't mention that at the ceremony.

Fear not BigYen for you are as Australian as I am (I was born there), any you get the same treatment and protection under the law. The only caveat is if we both become terrorists fighting against Australia. I would face life in an Australian Jail cell and you face losing citizenship and deportation to your country of birth. The terrorist laws are relatively new and may not have applied when you were granted Australian citizenship.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Seems to be as they are there only well capable of handling invisible 100nm small viruses but not the big visible 6-feet ones. lol

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Thought adern would give her a hug and a vaccine at least , sheesh whats become of this damn PC left PM she turning people away now .

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Ardern is making the situation more difficult than it has to be. Just cancel her NZ passport too.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

"Coming to New Zealand, where they have no immediate family, would not be in their best interests. We know that young children thrive best when surrounded by people who love them."

If population movement between the two was more evenly balanced, Australia wouldn’t need such draconian rules. The reality is that it’s not; Australia is much more of a magnet for NZers than the other way. For every one Aussie living on the other side of the ditch, there are far more Kiwis taking advantage of liberal visa rules that allow them to take up Australian residence, Whilst the proportion of troublemakers on either side is probably quite similar, it’s the absolute number which is the problem. NZ bleats about the ‘unfairness’ of having to accept repatriation of trouble makers who may have learnt their ‘trade’ in Australia because there are too many for a small country to reabsorb. If the shoe was on the other foot, I seriously doubt that the Kiwis wouldn’t be demonstrating the same level of determination as Australia to remove their ‘problem’ Aussies.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Does anyone know the status of the 'British' girl who had her citizenship stripped and is stuck somewhere in the Middle East? I haven't anything recently. Basically she is now stateless since Bangladesh was quick to disassociate itself from her. She didn't sound too regretful until she was stripped of her UK citizenship. I hope her losing 3 kids was worth it.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

If population movement between the two was more evenly balanced, Australia wouldn’t need such draconian rules. The reality is that it’s not; Australia is much more of a magnet for NZers than the other way. For every one Aussie living on the other side of the ditch, there are far more Kiwis taking advantage of liberal visa rules that allow them to take up Australian residence, Whilst the proportion of troublemakers on either side is probably quite similar, it’s the absolute number which is the problem. NZ bleats about the ‘unfairness’ of having to accept repatriation of trouble makers who may have learnt their ‘trade’ in Australia because there are too many for a small country to reabsorb. If the shoe was on the other foot, I seriously doubt that the Kiwis wouldn’t be demonstrating the same level of determination as Australia to remove their ‘problem’ Aussies.

You've got to be kidding me? You make it sound as though NZers are flooding Australia to take advantage of their system?

Australians make up 1.4% of NZ's population. NZers make up 2.2% of Australia's population. Less than a single percentage point in it.

But that's beside the point. The point is she was raised in Australia, radicalised in Australia, Australia let her leave to join ISIS and now they've dumped her on NZ (and of course they knew what they were doing).

As the article points out, this isn't an isolated case.

For those who don't know, Australians and New Zealanders enjoy a visa-free arrangement. Citizens of either country can live and work freely in the other. This leads to many cases where New Zealand-born citizens move to Australia in childhood but don't apply for Australian citizenship. After living there their whole life, some commit a crime, are deemed of "bad character" and are deported to NZ, a place they've never called home.

Of course NZ has cases of Australian citizens doing the same, but don't deport them, because NZ has been their home.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

NZers make up 2.2% of Australia's population

2.2% of 25,000,000 = 550,000 Kiwis in Australia.

Australians make up 1.4% of NZ's population

1.4% of 5,000,000 = 70,000 Australians in NZ.

480,000 people difference is quite large. 7.8 times more kiwis in Oz than the other way around.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I live in New Zealand. This person left NZ at 8 yrs old. Moved to Australia, became an Australian Citizen.

She has Zero Connection to N Z. In an act of pure cowardice, the Australian Government Cancels

her Australian Citizenship and Passport, for the sole purpose of deporting her back to N Z.

Not our problem says the Australian Prime Minister. This is their problem.

Our Prime Minister is not easily agitated, but this act of cowardice pushed her ""angry"" button.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

No terrorists have been raised in NZ to date. Australia created her and they should take responsibility for their creation.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

kyronstavic

Couldn't Ardern extend some of that "compassion" to this family she's so famous for displaying? Or is that just virtue signalling for the cameras?

She is. The compassionate move is for the children to be around family. She only has family in Australia. She has no family in NZ. Surely it only makes sense for the kids to be around their family.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

oyatoi

If population movement between the two was more evenly balanced, Australia wouldn’t need such draconian rules. The reality is that it’s not; Australia is much more of a magnet for NZers than the other way.

Yes, so Australia benefit from NZer's going to Australia, enriching their culture, paying taxes and in general leading to the increased prosperity of Australia. But if there are any problems Australia want to disown their own citizens?

As Muldoon famously said, immigration of NZer's into Australia increases the average intelligence of both nations.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

If you stop handing out passports like hotcakes you won't have to worry about losing out to other countries in the citizenship stripping race.

In a democratic society a government must have a very good reason such as a criminal conviction to deny a citizen a passport. Individuals have a right to travel outside their home country unless there are valid reasons to deny this right that has been subject to due process.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

They could cancel her New Zealand passport too.

Canceling the passport accomplishes nothing. The lady retains her dual citizenships with or without a passport so Australia hasn't avoided the problem, only exacerbated it while making Australia look very foolish.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Australia let her leave to join ISIS

What laws permit a nation like Australia to deny a citizen the right to leave Australia and travel abroad? If Australia is like most elected democratic governments her citizens have a right to travel abroad unless the government has a pretty significant reason to deny it, such a criminal conviction or out on bail pending trial. If the lady had no criminal history then the Aussies had no reason to deny her right to leave.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Bjorn Tomention

Thought adern would give her a hug and a vaccine at least , sheesh whats become of this damn PC left PM she turning people away now .

I don't think anybody would consider Scott Morrison PC left. It's Morrison who is turning people away and stripping them of their own citizenship.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Peter14

Fear not BigYen for you are as Australian as I am (I was born there), any you get the same treatment and protection under the law. The only caveat is if we both become terrorists fighting against Australia. I would face life in an Australian Jail cell and you face losing citizenship and deportation to your country of birth.

So there are two types of citizenship in Australia? One real citizenship and the other provisional.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Pam Ardern is a first class Islamaphobe. And not an ounce of empathy for a downtrodden woman and her children. Surely there is a program she can be placed in that with the right amount of Left wing indoctrination and ample welfare benefits can help turn this woman’s life around and provide a future for her unfortunate underprivileged children.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

As Muldoon famously said, immigration of NZer's into Australia increases the average intelligence of both nations.

So, that’s going to be their defence when they plead their case before the Australian judge. They might also like to reference Greg and Trevor, how ‘we’d’ never do that, and about all the sweetness and light we bring Australia’s way when we’re not doing things we shouldn’t.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Yes, so Australia benefit from NZer's going to Australia, enriching their culture, paying taxes and in general leading to the increased prosperity of Australia. But if there are any problems Australia want to disown their own citizens?

The point is they’re NOT Australian citizens. And spare us pleeezzz; what motivates these ‘cultural enrichers’ to move to Australia in the first place is the chance to maximise the size of their bank accounts; not some saintly motivation to increase the prosperity of Australia.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Pam Ardern is a first class Islamaphobe. 

When she went to Christchurch a day after the attacks on the mosques there, in which 51 Muslims were killed, Ardern visited members of the Muslim community. Dressed in black and wearing a hijab, she told them that the whole country was “united in grief.” and told the country, "they are us."

Yep, classic Islamophobia.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I am surprised such a trivial case makes it to the top. It seems reasonable that the woman should be sent to the country of birth.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Perhaps she could be given a good-conduct visa to Australia for six months, while her children retain whatever rights they might normally have?

I think the Muslim community in NZ would be very harsh on the woman, much more than any Western style of government.

No de-radicalization 'program' in the west that I have heard of has been successful in 'rehabilitating' extremist thinking like that of IS. Change, when it has happened, has usually come from some deeper awakening within.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Perhaps she could be given a good-conduct visa to Australia for six months, while her children retain whatever rights they might normally have?

Oh, I thought she was going to jail directly as a terrorist.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Dressed in black and wearing a hijab, she told them that the whole country was “united in grief.” and told the country, "they are us."

All virtue signaling and posing. When she has to make a hard choice and support a Muslim woman and her children she throws them under the bus. Actions speak louder than symbolism.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

I wonder if there is anything that bothers an extremist more than the reasonable person who condemns both extremes and points out their equivalencies.

They really, really don't like that. More than the other extreme even, as far as I can tell.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Australia played this one better and NZ is stuck with her. I guess Jacinda will give this ISIS lady a hug, and everything will be okay.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

oyatoi

The point is they’re NOT Australian citizens.

The point is they ARE Australian citizens.

And spare us pleeezzz; what motivates these ‘cultural enrichers’ to move to Australia in the first place is the chance to maximise the size of their bank accounts; not some saintly motivation to increase the prosperity of Australia.

The motivations of the immigrants into Australia are irrelevant. The fact is they improve the prosperity of Australia and if they decide to become citizens, then they deserve all the rights of citizenship. At the moment in Australia you have citizens and a second class 'provisional citizens'.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Reckless

I am surprised such a trivial case makes it to the top. It seems reasonable that the woman should be sent to the country of birth.

It doesn't seem reasonable at all. What is reasonable is she returns to the country she left from, lives in and where her family lives. Her children have only known Australia, and she barely knows NZ, have left at 6 years old as a child.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

At the moment in Australia you have citizens and a second class 'provisional citizens

Have you ever heard the expression “do the crime, do the time”? Citizenship is not a right, but a privilege. In treating her “provisional citizenship” like a flag of convenience and by virtue of a fanaticism alien to all right minded people, she forfeits that privilege.

You focus on “rights”, but what about the attendant RESPONSIBILITIES. In choosing this path, in choosing to put her own selfish interests above those of Australia, she has displayed a lamentable grasp of her civic duty to behave as a good citizen. She has only herself to blame for the predicament which she now finds herself in.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

All virtue signaling and posing.

Didn't look like it to me.

When she has to make a hard choice and support a Muslim woman and her children she throws them under the bus.

And Australia didn't? The children have family in Australia, not New Zealand. Which country do you think is better for them? In revoking the woman's citizenship, Australia can also take the kids' by extension. Also, the woman's a terrorist. What 'support' should she be given?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

oyatoi

Have you ever heard the expression “do the crime, do the time”? Citizenship is not a right, but a privilege.

And her children suffer because of it? What did they do? Also, by your logic, if a citizen who was born in Australia commits a crime, then they lose their citizenship and become stateless. After all it's a privilege, not a right.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

And her children suffer because of it?

Let me get this straight. You’re saying that just because she has children, she’s entitled to a get out of jail free card? No way Hose! Her children are in the situation they’re in entirely because of her selfishness and stupidity. If anything, the bar for citizenship should be raised even higher so as to make it absolutely crystal clear that the granting of citizenship has attendant responsibilities for which the penalty for failure to abide by include forfeiture.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

oyatoi

Let me get this straight. You’re saying that just because she has children, she’s entitled to a get out of jail free card?

No. Not at all.

Her children are in the situation they’re in entirely because of her selfishness and stupidity.

Agreed.

If anything, the bar for citizenship should be raised even higher so as to make it absolutely crystal clear that the granting of citizenship has attendant responsibilities for which the penalty for failure to abide by include forfeiture.

It really shouldn't. Citizenship is citizenship. If you grant it, it should be for life. That's how Japan law works. In fact, I don't know any other countries that have the ability to revoke citizenship, but I bet it isn't many. Not a good look, Australia.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

2020:hindsights: It really shouldn't. Citizenship is citizenship. If you grant it, it should be for life. That's how Japan law works.

Japan purposely ensures that only a small number of foreigners are granted Japanese nationality. I think you will find, however, that her rules about what is and isn’t permissible and character requirements are just as, if not more draconian than Australia’s. If ever Japan decided that it was in its interest to confer citizenship to similar high numbers of people as Australia, so too would you likely see them emulating the Australian approach of making citizenship much more subject to revocation if people fail the character test.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

oyatoi

Japan purposely ensures that only a small number of foreigners are granted Japanese nationality.

I think you mean citizenship. And no, they don't have a quota. So no they don't limit it to small numbers of foreigners. I had a friend get citizenship in 5 years, where I had to wait 10 years (at the time) to get permanent residence.

I think you will find, however, that her rules about what is and isn’t permissible and character requirements are just as, if not more draconian than Australia’s.

Probably around the same.

If ever Japan decided that it was in its interest to confer citizenship to similar high numbers of people as Australia, so too would you likely see them emulating the Australian approach of making citizenship much more subject to revocation if people fail the character test.

Japan has twice the number of people getting citizenship as Australia. So your wild speculation isn't even based on fact.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

2020hindsight: Japan has twice the number getting citizenship as Australia.

Laughable! Japan (population 127 million) 12-15,000 per year; Australia (population 25 million) in excess of 200,000 per year.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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