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New Zealand struggles to answer 'why' in wake of massacre

40 Comments
By Chris FOLEY

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The guy was a nutcase anti-Islam eco-terrorist, was a total climate change freak, hated religious people and believed in other extreme causes.

Not much more to it than that.

-7 ( +8 / -15 )

Dude is crazy. Nothing more than that. Crazy people find way.

People who follow through on killing others have a mental disorder.

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

He's not mentally ill, he's evil. Saying he's mad is attempting to excuse his behaviour and denigrates those who do have a mental illness.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

Quote from his Manifesto: ''I chose New Zealand to show that even the most remote parts of the West are under attack from the invaders''.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

It takes only one insane person with an automatic weapon to turn paradise into hell.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Well,if you choose to call the place a Heaven on Earth,then there are bound to be nutcases attracted to it. There is no such things as a perfect place. Things can happen everywhere at any time. They should have been more alert. Police patrolling unarmed. How naive.

-13 ( +3 / -16 )

Hiro speaking up for everyone who'd like to blame New Zealanders for the tragedy that befell them. Stay classy Hiro!

4 ( +9 / -5 )

Don't put words on my mouth. I merely wrote that they should have been more alert and not have naive thoughts like 'how something like this could happen'. The government and police are suppose to protect the people and not glorify it by saying to the world how safe a paradise a place is.Even our own ploice force has handguns. I do feel for their losses and sympathize with them. Is not about blame.

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

The guy was a nutcase anti-Islam eco-terrorist, was a total climate change freak, hated religious people and believed in other extreme causes.

Not much more to it than that.

Yup! There’s just nothing you CAN add to that, the guy was a psychopath in the worst way. And I hope every sensible media outlet refuses to utter his miserable name. The very last thing you want is to make this guy to be like some martyr for all the White supremacist radicals out in the world.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

Christchurch did/does not need this calamity added to the natural disasters that happened just recently.

Commiserations to Christchurch, and her people in mourning.

Kia Toa!

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Hiro:

I merely wrote that they should have been more alert and not have naive thoughts like 'how something like this could happen'.

They built a peaceful society by trusting that people around them are good. But when you start suspecting people around you, thinking them as potential enemies, you will start becoming defensive.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Perspectives people! In the last 30 days there has been 120 Islamic terrorism attacks with over 800 killed and a further 800 injured. This is a single event that is shocking, but not as shocking as how many people have been killed by Islamic terrorists.

People say he is crazy, evil and a nutter, but they say nothing about the Islamic terrorists for fear of being labeled a racist. Yes, this guy did have some extremely delusional ideals. However, this was a revenge attack and I have no doubt it will spur even more revenge attacks from the Islamic terrorists.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Hiro,

The police in NZ have firearms and use them quite regularly.

https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2017/11/under-fire/

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@Hiro, Are you alert too, mate!

What a narrow-minded approach to crimes carried out around the world.

Japan is a beautiful place too, but that did not stop a few maniacs from killing people with poisonous gas - did it? It did not prepare the law (government and police in your case) to counter the action - did it?

New Zealand is a beautiful country, and they deal with criminals in their own way/s. Now they will change a few laws to "mitigate" disgusting actions like these. It will not stop narrow-minded and brain-washed criminals from hurting other humans.

How about a few thoughts for the affected?

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Part of the why is that the gunman knew NZ's gun laws weren't very strict (compared to say, Australia's) so he could purchase as many weapons as he liked (including semi-automatics) once he had had a so called background check. Unfortunately, this is the kind of horror it takes to change gun laws (in most countries with common sense i.e. not the US) as was the case in Australia after Port Arthur.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

For information about New Zealand's gun law and related facts, the following is a good read.

https://www.news.com.au/world/pacific/how-the-christchurch-shooter-obtained-powerful-militarystyle-weapons/news-story/eaeec3112cefe61cf995397e1565304a

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Police patrolling unarmed has little to do with this incident. There are other issues with the security, but not that. Is naive to think otherwise.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I merely wrote that they should have been more alert and not have naive thoughts like 'how something like this could happen'.

It’s pretty naive to think that people don’t know how it could happen in our current world. It’s the “why” and “how can we fix this” that people are concerned about.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

I think the victims families would prefer Japanese justice. How bout you?

New Zealand justice every time. The last person to be executed there was in 1957. Death penalty abolished in 1961.

It's called progress, and it's happened across the world.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Perspectives people! In the last 30 days there has been 120 Islamic terrorism attacks with over 800 killed and a further 800 injured. This is a single event that is shocking, but not as shocking as how many people have been killed by Islamic terrorists.

Cognitive dissonance in action. Care to write up any figures in regards to the many wars in Islamic countries that have radicalized so many Muslims?

That said, this incident should just be viewed for what it is and not used to justify hatred no matter what side one might identify with.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

These are some words I've found written by one person in response to the attack and you don't have to take in everything she says about the religion but the conclusion is very true. People are coming together because of this, not drifting further apart.

Appreciate that you made the effort to find out the timing of our noon prayer.

Appreciate that you learnt more about our religion to know that Fridays are the days the men go to the Mosques for their congregational prayers.

But I guess there were some things you, rather unfortunately, didnʼt get to learn.

Perhaps you didnʼt know that what you did made them Martyrs.

And how you have single-handedly raised the statuses of our brothers and sisters in the eyes of their beloved Creator with your actions. And how, through your actions, they will be raised as the most righteous and pious of Muslims.

Perhaps you didnʼt know that doing what you did, at the time and place you chose, it actually meant that the last words that escaped their lips were probably words of remembrance and praise of Allah. Which is a noble end many Muslims could only dream of.

And perhaps you didnʼt know, but what you did would almost guarantee them paradise.

Appreciate that you showed the world how Muslims welcome, with open arms, even people like yourself into our Mosques, which is our second home.

Appreciate you for showing that our mosques have no locks or gates, and are unguarded because everyone and anyone is welcome to be with us.

Appreciate you for allowing the world to see the powerful image of a man you injured, lying on back on the stretcher with his index finger raised high, as a declaration of his faith and complete trust in Allah.

Appreciate how you brought the Churches and communities together to stand with us Muslims.

Appreciate that you made countless New Zealanders come out of their homes to visit the mosques nearest to them with flowers and beautiful messages of peace and love.

You have broken many many hearts and you have made the world weep. You have left a huge void.

But what you also have done have brought us closer together. And it has strengthened our faith and resolve.

In the coming weeks, more people will turn up in the Mosques, a place you hate so much, fortified by the strength in their faith, and inspired by their fallen brothers and sisters.

In the coming weeks, more non Muslims will turn up at the gates of mosques with fresh flowers and beautifully handwritten notes. They may not have known where the mosques in their area was. But now, they do. All because of you.

You may have achieved your aim of intended destruction, but I guess you failed to incite hatred, fear and despair in all of us.

And while I understand that it may have been your objective, I hate to say that after all of that elaborate planning, and the perverse and wretched efforts on your part, you still failed to drive a divide among the the Muslims and non-Muslims in the world.

For that, I canʼt say that Iʼm sorry.

A more fitting punishment for him than the death penalty would be to let him live with the consequences of his failure. He'll hate to see a more loving and open nation than what it was before he started.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

In Islamic law, the murder victim's family is given a choice to either insist on the death penalty or to pardon the perpetrator and accept monetary compensation for their loss (Quran 2:178).

What would the families of the victims choose, I wonder?

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

What would the families of the victims choose, I wonder?

Good question. Don't presume to know the answer though.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Hiro, I am horrorfied at what has happened in my country. But I am very proud to come from a country where police are not armed. We have armed police but they called out for special reasons. There was little gun crime in NZ. New Zealand is a peaceful country where everyone tries to get on with each other. People need to stop commenting on the gun situtation in New Zealand and think about the people who have lost their lives, because many of them were refugees and went there because they thought they were safe. Kia Kaha

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Could terrorist Brenton Tarrant 87 page manifesto be a method to mislead, distract, the investigation into the motivation of this mass murder, specifically, the meticulously detailed planning that lead to this appalling atrocity?. The attack was live streamed.

It has been reported there are two other suspects in custody. Remarkably none of the suspects detained had a criminal record.

New Zealand prime minister Jacinda Ardern office has confirmed that PM Ardern received an email from gunman Brenton Tarrant nine minutes before the attack took place.

Politicians, the media, will have reach above gun control, or relying upon, ism's , ist's, or phobia's.

This horrifying loss of life was timed to perfection so guaranteeing an unspeakable sickening result, and maximise the monstrous cruelty effect.

Its the 'how' as much 'why'?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@itsonlyrocknroll

I wasn't aware he had emailed Ardern. Advanced notice and it still took 36 minutes after the first call for help for help to arrive. That definitely needs to be better.

Of the four people initially arrested on Friday, three are confirmed to not be involved. Another person was arrested today as a result of investigation into this event, but again it is not related at all. There may still be further arrests.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

@Hiro is WRONG

The Police in Christchurch have been in a state of heightened alert after a series of firearms incidents at the end of Feb, and were carrying sidearms on their hip at this time of the shooting an also had access to bushmaster rifles in their vehicles.

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/383618/christchurch-police-to-carry-firearms-until-further-notice

At times the police in NZ patrol armed, but they always have access to firearms when required.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Hi Haaa Nemui, I guess early days into the investigation to comprehend the enormity for such a heinous crime. The BBC are reporting, Brenton Tarrant was a “lone gunman”.

Christchurch shootings: Attacker was 'lone gunman'....

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47599586

The so called manifesto is 87 pages of incoherent, unintelligible, blaster.

At this moment I find it astonishing, the scale of this atrocity, it's execution, the precision planning, the use of social media, Tarrant abitity to time his moves to evade capture, could be work of a lone gunman.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I agree, it is astonishing.

I wonder about the document sent to Ardern. Perhaps it was just a copy of the "manifesto" in which case there still would have been little clue for authorities to act on in short notice.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It takes only one insane person with an automatic weapon to turn paradise into hell.

Are NZ and Australia that a tolerant paradise?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

What would the families of the victims choose, I wonder?

Just as relevant, what would the families of those wrongly execute choose I wonder?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Are NZ and Australia that a tolerant paradise?

No country has 100% tolerance. I think this event will lead to more people standing up against the hatred of any kind though.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Let’s not use his name. I didn’t know it until a moment ago, and if I never hear it again I’ll be happy.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

I have to apologise for an earlier comment where I mistakenly said 36 minutes for help to arrive. 36 minutes was the time to apprehend the gunman. 7 minutes to arrive on scene is I think the correct time.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Haaa Nemui

Yeah, it was a couple of officers returning from (engaged in?) some special training who apprehended them. Good on those two.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

And good on everyone else who reponded, of course.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

It’s pretty naive to think that people don’t know how it could happen in our current world. It’s the “why” and “how can we fix this” that people are concerned about.

It is pretty naive to think everything can be fixed without destroying many of the freedoms that make it worth living.

Crazy people will find a way no matter what we do, unless locking everyone up is an option.

Normal people need to keep living their lives, eyes open, but still with great joy and thanks for all they have.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

There is no paradise on earth, not in New Zealand or Japan or anywhere else that is considered relatively safe and with less crime than in other countries. Human beings can be relatively less prone to certain kinds of criminal behavior from country to country but human nature remains the same everywhere.

Crazy people will find a way no matter what we do, unless locking everyone up is an option. 

New Zealand is still a very good and pleasant country today even after this horrible crime. But don’t be misled that government can do anything to stop this kind of thing from happening over and over again. The belief that government can stop such atrocities with anything other than a tyrannical police state is delusional.

There are things that governments do that encourage such behavior that need to be addressed. The current New Left ethos of division by identity guarantees that racial conflict will intensify. It’s best to focus on what people have in n common rather than the superficial demographics that differentiate people from one another.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

JeffLee - It takes only one insane person with an automatic weapon to turn paradise into hell.

Or one insane person with a bomb, or a truck, to turn paradise into hell. Another sociopath chose to kill people because he had no regard for human life. Choosing to condemn the sociopath's weapon of choice doesn't prevent a sociopath from committing mass murder for whatever twisted reasons the sociopath finds convenient isn't going to stop sociopaths from committing mass murder. Identifying, and treating, the sociopath BEFORE they commit mass murder should be the goal.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Choosing to condemn the sociopath's weapon of choice doesn't prevent a sociopath from committing mass murder for whatever twisted reasons the sociopath finds convenient isn't going to stop sociopaths from committing mass murder. 

We all know that blaming the weapon is the easy way. Social breakdown and not the weapon that is the cause of these mass murder incidents. If it's not a gun it will be a bomb, or a car driven through a crowd of shoppers. Civic organizations and churches have been in decline for a long time. They are being replaced by government programs, political activism, and social media. Throw in the Internets replacement of human contact with virtual relationships and viola! - a sick and declining society. People are spending way more time tearing down societal foundations and replacing them with virtue signaling, social ostracization of political and cultural enemies, and shaming sessions. What happened in New Zealand is sadly just another example of the new normal.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

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