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New Zealanders give up guns after massacre, drawing some online criticism apparently from U.S.

41 Comments
By Dave Lintott

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Yall do realize what happens to societies that give up their guns right? 

Ironic. I suspect one reason this Australian chose New Zealand for his massacre was that Australia's relatively strict gun control laws thwarted his plans there.

24 ( +25 / -1 )

"What's the point of giving up yalls personal guns? Yall do realize what happens to societies that give up their guns right? Evil people will get their hands on guns, knives, bombs or whatever they want to kill no matter what the intentions of good people are. Who will protect you."

I lived only in countries with gun control and I'm still waiting to see what's supposed to happen. This argument is getting really old.

27 ( +28 / -1 )

Ironic. I suspect one reason this Australian chose New Zealand for his massacre was that Australia's relatively strict gun control laws thwarted his plans there.

That is literally impossible. A logical impossibility. After all, if a criminal wants to get guns in any country, they will. Any country. Laws cannot stop people from getting guns. They can not. Guns are always available to everyone even in countries where guns are banned, and someone just has to go out to the nearest street corner and make a few whispers to the dealer on the corner, and you'll have automatic rifles up the hoopdie. Even in countries with strong gun laws, because we all know gun laws don't work.

-17 ( +8 / -25 )

I’m not familiar with your local customs, but I assume 'Cuck' is a traditional greeting,"

Trash. Mouth-breathers like this shouldn’t be allowed near sharp objects, let alone firearms.

Common sense is a concept far too difficult for these primitives.

14 ( +15 / -1 )

There are plenty of countries where people own firearms, but it only seems like those in the US feel the need to tell others what to do with theirs!

12 ( +14 / -2 )

A more mild message, from Kaden Heaney asked: "What's the point of giving up yalls personal guns? Yall do realize what happens to societies that give up their guns right? Evil people will get their hands on guns, knives, bombs or whatever they want to kill no matter what the intentions of good people are. Who will protect you."

I guess this redneck has never been to Australia. I doubt if he has ever been out of his swamp. I'd also guess he has literacy issues as well. "Y'all come back now. Ya Hear?"

17 ( +18 / -1 )

Well if the Americans are against it, it's obviously the right thing to be doing.

25 ( +26 / -1 )

but she indicated that gun buybacks and a ban on some semi-automatic rifles were under consideration.

U.S. Washington state residents can get US$150. in exchange for bump stocks. https://komonews.com/news/local/washington-residents-can-get-150-in-exchange-for-turning-in-rifle-bump-stocks,

Good to see that some bump stock owners are complying in advance of the federal law taking effect.

Hart deleted the messages but posted online: "A warm kia ora to all my new American Facebook friends."

Given the Internet Research Agency and other Russian organizations use of social media and organizations like the NRA to rile up US gun extremists, I wonder if they're also stirring fires in New Zealand over guns issues, or if they know their American followers and fellow ultrarightists will keep those fires stirred themselves.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

I've posted this before, but there was also a rush to buy guns, so it's not all roses.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/111343558/panic-buying-of-guns-ahead-of-ban-sparked-by-christchurch-shooting

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I'm sure if this appeal had happened sooner, The Gunman would have given up his arms and none of this would have happened.

When will we as a society learn that the problem lies in people wanting to kill people, not the tools with which they choose to do it.

-24 ( +1 / -25 )

When will we as a society learn that the problem lies in people wanting to kill people, not the tools with which they choose to do it.

What other problem in humanity do we entirely ignore the tools in coming up with a solution for?

The above quote just once again proves my point that the US should be embarrassed after seeing how the adults deal with such a situation.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

The above quote just once again proves my point that the US should be embarrassed after seeing how the adults deal with such a situation.

Believe me when I say that no one is more upset about our gun laws than polled majorities of Americans. After all, we're the ones dying. 69% of us just last month are on the record supporting stronger gun control legislation:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-florida-shooting-anniversary-poll/americans-support-gun-control-but-doubt-lawmakers-will-act-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKCN1PX11I

Sadly, our elected officials aren't interested in doing our bidding. After all they're too busy spending all that money they receive from the gun lobby (including some democrats). So it has nothing to do with us being "adults" or not. Frankly, I find that rather insulting. Are the Sandy Hook parents lacking in maturity, or those working hard to change the laws.

To the topic at hand, of course, there are some depraved Americans capable of posting stupid things on social media, but this also strikes me as shoddy journalism. "Apparently" and "seemed"? And as Ricky's link attests, America sadly doesn't have a monopoly on gun enthusiasts--what was the figure again, 3.5 million guns in NZ and only 5 million people? Now, does their government have the ability to enact change more effectively--it seems the answer is yet. For that I envy them but this doesn't make them adults and us naive children.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

"It is clear that this can now only be described as a terrorist attack," Ardern said.

To stop such terrorist attack, Gun law must be strict.

Yes Gun maker will make noise but no way.

A country like NZ can't introduce new terrorist attack for Gun business.

This is the right time to stop it.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

@Laguna, I agree.

To the poster in the US, “Who will protect you?”

Well, hopefully the Police!

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Sadly, our elected officials aren't interested in doing our bidding. After all they're too busy spending all that money they receive from the gun lobby (including some democrats). So it has nothing to do with us being "adults" or not. Frankly, I find that rather insulting. Are the Sandy Hook parents lacking in maturity, or those working hard to change the laws.

I'm not speaking of individual Americans. As I said:

the US should be embarrassed after seeing how the adults deal with such a situation.

If I were a US citizen, I'd be embarrassed at my country's actions even though I'm very anti-gun. For that matter, I'm embarrassed about my own country for a lot of things it does, even though I don't agree with these things.

The fact is, America doesn't treat the gun problem like adults deal with problems. It is dealing with the gun problem as children would. That's why I make the statement I do. I'm sorry that your country is childish, and from your posts, I know you aren't. But that doesn't change the fact that America should be embarrassed seeing how effectively other countries can deal with the gun issue.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

NZ, like Australia 30 years ago after the Port Arthur massacre, has a good chance to move towards a more gun-free society. Australia hasn't had any mass shootings since thousands handed in or sold their guns to the government. NZ can do the same and say goodbye to such massacres. The US doesn't seem up the task at all and still, after 100s of massacres, doesn't realize how sad and messed up her situation is.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

I was rather touched by the moral realizations in the article and the volunteer surrendering of weapons. An ethical stand and action that will never occur in the USA

9 ( +9 / -0 )

@darknuts - When will we as a society learn that the problem lies in people wanting to kill people, not the tools with which they choose to do it.

Interesting comment except for one relevant point. It would be impossible for one person to kill 50 people with a kitchen knife.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

What a really progressive country! Next thing you know they'll even have a female head of state. Oh, they already do. America doesn't know the meaning of progressive. Mostly, it has a 19th century mentality.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

@Mocheake

I can agree with you about our 19th century mentality. But it is more of a 20th Century attitude and not a 19th century one. They 20th century is where fictional imagery of cowboys and the wild west started becoming popular and going mainstream. That is the same century that it suddenly became popular to settle your disputes by shooting people. Before, that guns were mainly used as deterrents against threats but it was considered a dangerous weapons and the gun control laws were a lot more strict in the 19th century.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

AustPaulToday  03:22 pm JST

@Laguna, I agree.

To the poster in the US, “Who will protect you?”

Well, hopefully the Police!

I am not a "gun person," so don't get me wrong.

But the police don't protect you. Is there a police unit outside your house right now protecting you?

The police may at times thwart some crimes before they happen. Much more frequently, though, they only investigate the crime after it has already taken place.

I totally understand the need to regulate or maybe even the need to ban guns.

But I don't think "the police will protect you" can be offered as a defense for that stance.

It's not as if each and every one of us has a police officer nearby serving as our personal bodyguard. That is not even close to being true.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

another thing happening are the spontaneous "haka" (I live, I die) occurring in mourning across the country. Really moving

3 ( +3 / -0 )

But I don't think "the police will protect you" can be offered as a defense for that stance.

In Japan, when the police find someone with an illegal gun, they arrest them.

I call that protecting me.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

So the population of an entire country needs to disarm because of a few crazy people?

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

@Jenni

My point was that it is the role of the Police to deter and detect crime, not for the citizenry to take matters into their own hands, with firearm in hands.

Btw, I too had a licence here in Australia but surrendered the rifle post 96 as it was a semi-automatic, and I’m still here!

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Strangerland...."We all know gun laws don't work". Well if they don't work, why are you getting so fretty about it? They don't work, so you can still go get your precious guns!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

“What's the point of giving up yalls personal guns? Yall do ...”

Too many y’alls. Probably a Russian.

Good on those people who give up their guns having decided they really don’t need them. I hope they never have cause to regret it.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

My point was that it is the role of the Police to deter and detect crime, not for the citizenry to take matters into their own hands, with firearm in hands.

How well do you think police deter crime? Smart criminals plan around the police in order to commit a crime and politically motivated ones may even want to be killed or caught. That makes them very hard to stop. This was the case in Christchurch and Oslo.

On the other, if one of the worshippers or campers had been armed perhaps there wouldn’t have been 50 dead.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

What a really progressive country! Next thing you know they'll even have a female head of state. Oh, they already do. America doesn't know the meaning of progressive. Mostly, it has a 19th century mentality.

A shallow understanding of progressivism.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Americans who own guns and love them should all line up in big circles, draw, and fire. Leave the rest of the world, and people with obviously superior intelligence as to what allows these massacres to happen, in peace, and to live. New Zealanders, as with Australia in the past on gun laws, take a gun massacre and get the right idea of what should be done. Americans? Never. That's why you read about this kind of massacre several times a year, and plain old shootings and gun-related deaths every... single... day. They have absolutely no right, and no place, to criticize.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

In Japan, when the police find someone with an illegal gun, they arrest them.

I call that protecting me.

Nevermind arrests, in Japan with its strict gun control laws you're less likely to be shot with an illegal gun than to win the lottery.

I call that protecting you.

In the USA there are 67 million more guns than people.

The USA has 4% of the world's population and yet, thanks to its gun culture, 46% of the entire global total of civilian firearms.

Please, by all means tell me it's a total coincidence that the USA also tops the global charts in mass shootings and overall gun violence. 64% of US homicides in 2016 were gun-related. Compare that to, say the 4.5% in the UK and Wales over two years from 2015-2016.

I applaud New Zealanders for their speedy and sensible response to this massacre!

It's been 2,285 days since the Sandy Hook shooting. Shame on the gun culture in the USA and the NRA machine that fuels it.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Interesting comment except for one relevant point. It would be impossible for one person to kill 50 people with a kitchen knife.

Unlikely, not impossible. But how about a bomb or a lethal gas? How about running a car into a crowded intersection? You may think these methods require a high degree of sophistication and know how. They do not. Information is all over the dark web and its not too hard to make a homade bomb or a lethal mix of fumes and leave them in a train station. People are very creative.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Campaign finance reform (overturning the Citizens United decision) will cure much of America’s ills and rest control of the legislature away from big money and give it back to the voters. As long as special interests can pump millions or billions of dollars into brainwashing campaigns, then things will never get better.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Guns need not be banned outright. Just ban sales of rifle magazines that hold more than six or seven cartridges. (That's what Japan does.) And control the sales of ammunition, so that a purchaser cannot buy more until he turns in the empty cartridges from his previous purchase. (That's also what Japan does.) In fact bullet control can be just as effective as gun control.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@Strangerland - it would appear most people didn't understand the tone of your first post. You get an upvote from me for that one.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Watch, listen and learn, Americans.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

When will we as a society learn that the problem lies in people wanting to kill people, not the tools with which they choose to do it.

yet as Christchurch and Las Vegas has shown one person with semiautomatic weapons can kill dozens in a very short period of time. If you compare America homicide rate with that of strict gun control countries its at least 5 times or higher. Is it because AMericans are just mentally more unstable than everybody else or is it the tools to kill people are far more readily available.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Guns need not be banned outright. Just ban sales of rifle magazines that hold more than six or seven cartridges. (That's what Japan does.) And control the sales of ammunition, so that a purchaser cannot buy more until he turns in the empty cartridges from his previous purchase. (That's also what Japan does.) In fact bullet control can be just as effective as gun control.

You can already 3Dprint magazines, make your own ammo from youtube vids. Not to mention imports.

The other issue is it's not just Semi Autos that can terrorise, eg DC Sniper. Look what you can buy currently with a standard gun license in NZ, armour piercing 50 calibre sniper rifle:

https://www.guncity.com/50bmg-barrett-model-99-black-345813

NZ must really go back to all the previous gun enquiries and NOW take heed of Police and other expert advice. Sadly, all of this could have been avoided had previous NZ government protected a majority of the NZ population's right to be safe instead of the minority gun owning population's rights. Neither are wrong in their desires, just potential victims of readily available deadly firearms.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

@RiskyMosaic

I've posted this before

I remember, you said NZ already had strict gun controls, sigh.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Unlikely, not impossible. But how about a bomb or a lethal gas? How about running a car into a crowded intersection? You may think these methods require a high degree of sophistication and know how. They do not. Information is all over the dark web and its not too hard to make a homade bomb or a lethal mix of fumes and leave them in a train station. People are very creative.

With only one knife? No it is impossible since it will be useless at the point of cutting more than two or three without sharpening the edge. Bombs are also very unlikely since the material is very volatile in mid-stage and will explode at any sudden shock without strong knowledge in chemistry. Same with nerve agents in which you will probably kill yourself before inflicting harm to others.

Some people caught up in pop culture thinks it is easy as snapping a finger.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Sh1mon,

Yeah, I did. I was wrong and I can admit that. Actually I already did in an earlier article, and gave you a namecheck. Now I’m all about getting them changed.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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