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No charges against CIA officials for waterboarding

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And after the torture they received how much useful information? Can you say "Nothing?" < :-)

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How do you know what information they received?

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All torture does is give you the information you want to hear.

Smart move on President Obama, if he goes after the members of the CIA that did these things then the CIA may turn on him.

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IOW - Obama is leaving that window open in case his admin needs to resort to waterboarding the next Khalid Mohammed - or even some young domestic terorist wannabe who may have gotten the wrong idea from the writings of Obama's pal Bill Ayers.

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'Tis a shame... they should at least have waterboarded them to let them know how 'non-torturous' it is.

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'Tis a shame... they should at least have waterboarded them to let them know how 'non-torturous' it is."

I thought you were against my idea of do unto others as they have done to you?? Why is it ok now?

Actually, I agree with you. Which is one reason why I supported it being used on suspects.

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skip: "I thought you were against my idea of do unto others as they have done to you?? Why is it ok now?"

It would never happen, and in reality I wouldn't agree with it anyway. My sarcastic point is that it's wrong, and they knew it then and know it now more than ever. Glad you agree in theory, though.

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http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/180417.html#answer

P.O.'d Taka

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The Democrat Party really has no shame:

"In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA’s overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk.

"Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill. But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said.

"The briefer was specifically asked if the methods were tough enough," said a U.S. official who witnessed the exchange. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/08/AR2007120801664.html

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The "dark and painful chapter" is beginning now, where Barack Hussein & the Democrat activists have decided to end the jihad unilaterally by deciding it does not exist. However flawed GWBs response with his idiotic "war on terror" was; at least he acknowledged that some kind of defense was necessary.

The results of this appeasement will come in soon enough, and will indeed be dark and painfull. Never, ever has appeasement stopped the jihad, it always made it stronger.

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In two minds about this. Although I believe that the West should hold itself to a higher moral standard with regard to how it treats any prisoners captured during operations related to the War on Terrorism, I am also hesitant to condemn people who might have been involved in "aggressive" questioning techniques. Furthermore, from a pure military perspective, torture (unfortunately) is some times a necessary evil in terms of obtaining information, whether it be physical torture (of which waterboarding is just one example among a number) or whether it be mental torture (white noise and stress positions, etc). Moreover, I think that passing judgement on such issues is also rather difficult.

PS. Wish everyobdy would stop seeing everything as a bipartisan issue. It tends to get in the way of solid debate.

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Thanks for the link, Taka. Pertinent, to say the least.

"It would be unfair to prosecute dedicated men and women working to protect America for conduct that was sanctioned in advance by the Justice Department,” Holder said."

Fair's really got nothing to do with it when discussing matters of right or wrong. Torture doesn't magically become acceptable depending on who's administering it, and to say that it was acceptable because a small cadre of terrified, paranoid old men unilaterally declared it so doesn't change that fact.

How much moral authority do we have promoting liberty and freedom when we can't even abide to the rules ourselves? And how much better are we than our enemies when we find supposedly intelligent adults baying for the blood of any and all around them in a desperate bid to secure a sense of security that is illusionary at best?

Thanks to 30 years of a wholly selfish, short-term goal, quick profit strategy that characterizes US foreign policy to a T, we have finally met the enemy, and he is indeed us.

Interestingly, the justification used by Holder isn't much different from the often used but equally morally dubious, "I was just following orders" defense that usually resulted in certain convictions at Nuremberg. Funny, that.

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It is interesting, but back in WW2 there were Japanese soldiers who were executed for waterboarding allied POW's. Oh how the tide turns....America land of the free....and the hypocrite.

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beowulf: Well, those Japanese soldiers were captured and from what I read, they tortured not for gaining strategic info, but tortured people who either refused or weren't able to perform labor services and there are cases where it was for their pleasure. But, on your note, if the enemy captures those who water boarded their men (CIA), well, that's a price one pays for taking the job.

This article is about the US gov charging its own. I am against the gov charging those who felt that was the only way they could extract information. I am sure they didn't just torture for the heck of it. There were people who were not tortured and gave information and there were/are some who didn't. There are a few who even after being tortured still haven't given up any info.

If you are left and I kill a right winger or even torture him, would you hail me as a hero? I tend to think you would. I know smitty would not.

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SuperLib - Well I'm open to hearing about information that was obtained that helped us out. It just appears that most articles show there was nothing gained. It's been reported for the past couple of years that nothing was gained. But maybe you have links.

I am glad the CIA officials who followed the illegal instructions won't be charged. < :-)

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/270132

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/03/29/Report-Waterboarding-produced-no-leads/UPI-29251238332349/

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Bloody shame.

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skipthesong - I am against any form of torture, because you know it is kind of inhumane and wrong. The Japanese tortured for all sorts of reasons, but one of them was definitely to get information from their prisoners. It does not matter why you torture somebody, torture is bad.

Finally, do you really think that the American Military have never tortured for fun or for their own pleasure? Did you not see the photos from Abu Ghraib?

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It's been reported for the past couple of years that nothing was gained. But maybe you have links." If they did publish such info, I don't think it would change your mind.

beowulf: I think you are misunderstanding me. I wish the whole concept never existed, but if I knew someone had a hit on you or your family and the only way for me to find out the when, where, and the why, would you be upset at me?

I am well aware of the white trash that did that to those people in Abu Ghraib and I think they were dealt with very lightly. Look back on a few posts over the years and you will see I advocated in letting them lose in Iraq for the Iraqis to deal with them. But, would you support that? You do know what they would do to them, don't you?

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Obama suckered so many people.

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Like this Texan cares what some foreigner thinks about U.S. politics.

Then why do you spend hours posting the same things over and over on a Japan-themed site?

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When Obama spoke at the Daily KOS convention in '07 he promised them he'd bring the CIA waterboarders to justice.

"Just words. Just speeches."

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The US government really can't do anything to prosecute the CIA operatives because it was the CIA operatives' government superiors who assured them that it was legal. The government can't just change the rule later and trap those it assured in the first place. The rule change can only apply from the present time onwards.

If anything, it's the government superiors that could be investigated further. But I don't think that's a fight most Americans want to get into right now, although further investigation does not necessarily mean further prosecution. (Investigation just to find out more a complete picture.)

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lostrune2:The US government really can't do anything to prosecute the CIA operatives because it was the CIA operatives' government superiors who assured them that it was legal.

"Just followin' orders" did not work at Nuremburg.

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A total of 3 militant Islamic supremacists were waterboarded. One of them was the mastermind behind the USS Cole bombing.

Watching the Left try and make this into a "war crime" puts their efforts to try and exonerate Obama's pal and mentor, the failed terrorist Bill Ayers, into a very telling light.

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These people ought to be prosecuted. What is Obama afraid of?

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Ah few more than 3 buddy. Go check the reports again.

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" "Just followin' orders" did not work at Nuremburg."

That's hardly a fair comparison, not that I agree with the shenanigans of the Bush administration.

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Although I believe that the West should hold itself to a higher moral standard with regard to how it treats any prisoners

Morality is subjective at best and has no place against those who would dance on your grave. Taking prisoners at all should be an indication of exactly how decent the U.S has been and the fact that they've allowed prisoners without valuable information to live is simply beyond benevolent.

The fine gentlemen in Al Qaeda have certainly never been so courteous and I'm sure that, if given the chance, most of the prisoners we've taken would gladly go back to drilling holes where they need not be and setting hostages on fire.

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My previous comment was made without reading anything here but the comment I replied to. Now I go through the thread and see several things, like I just repeated someone else's line. Glad it is not just me seeing the fat double standard.

skipthesong: I am sure they didn't just torture for the heck of it.

Naive statement of the month if not the year. And the fact that you acknowledge the torture, by specifically using the word "torture" while at the same time condoning it is very telling.

Well I got some newsflashes for you: there are indeed some bad apples in America and even in our military and secret services. I cannot vouch for the latter two, but the former? I have seen very bad Americans in spades. Many make the papers every single day.

Second newsflash: Torture is against everything America stands for.

Madverts: That's hardly a fair comparison

Of course its a fair comparison. Not everybody that gone done over in Nuremburg killed a Jew you know. People were executed for a variety of reasons, like Alfred Johl, for signing an order to move people from Denmark into concentration camps, Jews and non-Jews alike, as if the allies had never done the same. Julius Streicher was executed for writing anti-Jewish propaganda. And here is nice one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Pleiger

15 years for having something to do with slave labor. Does not even bother to make it clear.

Compare those to the actual hands-on torture of people. Torture does not become untorture because someone tells you so. They knew full well they were torturing. And if they didn't, neither ignorance nor orders are valid excuses anyway. This double standard STINKS, and this another day that I am not proud to be an American.

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So anyway, when was Obama put in charge of our justice system??? Thought he was only in charge of the executive branch!

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"Compare those to the actual hands-on torture of people."

Exactly. Torturing people - and let's face it, there are worse means of torture than the aleged methods used - are a far cry from mass genocide if you care to be honest.

Like I said, it's an un-far comparison.

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The U.S. government released four memos in which Bush-era lawyers approved in often graphic detail tough interrogation methods

Obama authorizes the release top secret memos but can't release his own birth certificate.

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Okay let's get the **facts** out there as the republicans acknowledge.

3 people where waterboarded.

Nothing is torture.

That's about it.

Oh..oh.. yeah there is all the information that was gleaned from these waterborading that made us safer. That stopped numerous attacks on our homeland. Just listen to the republicans lay out the facts.

Please my republican posters, lay out the facts for us. < :-)

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likeitis,

If the World Court decides to prosecute, I guess they could try. But I don't think the U.S. will allow that. So practically, the only one that could prosecute them would be the U.S. Justice Dept. itself, and like I said, the U.S. can't apply the rule change retroactively, particularly when it was the Justice Dept. that allowed it.

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And apparently there is a camp in Afghanistan that is the equivalent of Gitmo - but Obama isn't closing it.

The hypocracy is hip deep with this administration.

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For a guy that ran a campaign promising openess, Obama failed to say which administration was to be open. Definitely not his own.

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Madverts: Torturing people - and let's face it, there are worse means of torture than the aleged methods used - are a far cry from mass genocide if you care to be honest.

You're getting in the way of likeitis' ability to tell everyone how embarrassed he is to be an American. Why so cruel?

But I do support your efforts to add in some perspective to the situation, which is needed. If some people want to call waterboarding torture then fine, but it doesn't mean that all torture is equal just because you can use the word "torture" to describe it. Technically the Japanese engage in torture when they do their marathon interrogations because sleep deprivation is considered to be torture. So saying that the Japanese cops should be lumped in with waterboarding which should be lumped in with Saddam's practice of raping your family members in front of you makes the word "torture" lose all meaning.

Anyway, Obama isn't going to prosecute and I support him on this one. It's time to move on.

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@Texas Aggie

What does that have to do with these guys basically getting a pardon before anyone tries to seek criminal charges against them? Not a thing. I personally hate the fact that some are trying to seek criminal charges against Bush. Look, i didn't always agree with Bush, but that doesn't mean that I like the fact that some folks are trying to smear the office of the President with such allegations. Same goes for anyone in service to the country. I am glad that this thing has been buried.

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The guy says the CIA agents will NOT be prosecuted, and he still gets slammed by the Obama Derangement Syndrome sufferers. You guys could at least make an attempt to hide your condition by trying to make a little sense from time to time.

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Obama talks a good game. A lot of fools fell for it.

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likeitis:

" The people I listed had no direct hand in mass genocide. "

It is so reassuring to know that some JT posters know exactly what the detainened members of jihadist training camps know and what they don´t know. Any future administration could just release them into the US population (as indeed this admin is preparing to do...) and simply ask "likeitis" about any sensitive information that they might have. Voila, problem solved.

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It's even a surprise that those memos were opened to the public. Many of the old Bush administration wanted them kept closed. Be careful those asking for even more openness - that may lead to subpoenaing or even prosecuting those ex-US Dept of Justice superiors and thus drag the Bush admin further in the mud.

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It's even a surprise that those memos were opened to the public. Many of the old Bush administration wanted them kept closed.

Four of the CIA's former chiefs - Cintonistas among them - warned the Obama admin against publishing the memos and politicizing even national intelligence.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/four-cia-chiefs-said-dont-reveal-torture-memos-1671068.html

But it looks like the effect gaining the presidency has had on Obama's already massive ego and his overweening narcissism is just too strong - whatever came before Obama's ascension to office represents 'a dark and painful chapter in our history.'

Likewise, it is his arrogance that makes him bow to the Saudi king and apologize to Europe and S America, as if to say 'Sorry I didn't come along earlier.'

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