New law in France bars unvaccinated from restaurants, sports arenas and other venues

Well, since the French Open is held in a Sports Arena, I guess that rules out Djokovic in advance.

Strike 2.

Great news! Nothing worse than being around selfish and stupid anti-vaxxers!

Expect a month of yellow vest rioting until this decision is scrapped.

How come they need this, if 91% of the population is vaccinated and the rest have less than 5% chance of needing to be hospitalized ?

About the ICU beds, what does "most of them unvaccinated" mean, what's the actual percentage? Are they hospitalized with the omicron variant?

This 'upgraded' restrictions are yet another step away from basic human rights.

How come they need this, if 91% of the population is vaccinated and the rest have less than 5% chance of needing to be hospitalized ?

Those numbers are incorrect.

Are they hospitalized with the omicron variant?

What’s the point? if it’s not, delta is still a problem. If it is, omicron is clearly not a low risk variant for some people.

I must admit, I am starting to think they should just open up. Let them drop dead. It’s what they want.

Bob Fosse

It says 91% of adults in the article. Should've used that instead of 'population'. And 5% is a ballpark, some articles say that it's even under 2% for unvaccinated and under 0.2% for vaccinated.

@Khaos, France has a population of 67 million according to 2021 figures. 91% vaccinated still leaves more than 6 million that aren't, and one thing I'm very certain of is that France doesn't have hospital beds for 6 million potential patients. I don't know 'what most of them unvaccinated' means, as you put it, and I agree with you about basic human rights being tossed aside. It's happening here in Canada, too.

A friend of mine said we have to suck it up and endure, but I like my freedoms and I hate being a prisoner in my own country (I'm used to travelling internationally every year for at least a month). I also absolutely hate having to wear a mask. I had COVID, in July, 2020. It was vicious, but I didn't need hospitalization. I still have a minor cough, but it's slowly disappearing, so I guess I'm one of the lucky ones with a robust constitution.

I've also just received my 'booster' shot - number three in less than 7 months - but it doesn't help. I'm still threatened with quarantine when I get home from overseas, and I still have to produce a negative test taken within 72 hours before coming home, in any foreign country, at my expense.

Yeah, it sucks. But we can't do anything about government's taking away our rights, except shoot all the politicians, and that's a bad idea.

Haaa Nemui

Obviously it would make a huge difference, if only a handful of people are there because of omicron, because their stated motivation for these additional restrictions is rooted in preventing it's spread.

TrevorPeace

If the root cause of health systems being overloaded was simply a matter of vaccination rate, restrictions and population size, we must be extraordinarily lucky here in Japan.

I was in France most of December and am heading back there this week. Every bar, restaurant, many shops, banks, etc., I went in I needed a vaccine pass. Plus masked up when moving around. Quick and easy and no need to worry about conspiracy theorists!

This means anybody in the ICU with a post vaccination reaction or injury is counted as an unvaccinated ICU patient.

That is false, clear disinformation, any patient is counted as vaccinated (for any problem that may be related to the vaccine) the moment they recieve the first dose. What you are misrepresenting is the criteria for developing immunity, so patients that have not had the chance to mount an immune reaction against COVID are not counted as vaccinated in respect to COVID hospitalization.

The one that misrepresented the definition and hid relevant facts was your comment.

Hypocrisie. Vaccine is not mandatory but unvaccinated are blamed and some of their basic rights infringed.

Macron just wants to add more pressure without making the vaccine mandatory. In France, political meetings are exempted of having a restricted number of attendees.

As a negative pcr test was necessary for those activities it will not change much

Vaccine is not mandatory but unvaccinated are blamed and some of their basic rights infringed.

YES! I'm afraid that the anti-vax crowd are just going to have to suffer, so us vaxxed people can eat, drink and make merry.

Thanks! I'll be toasting you in the bar!

Discrimination and segregation.

How about the millions of young women (and thier partners) who are pregnant or plan on pregnancy who are unsure what the scriptures vaccine will do to their babies? Why force them or anyone else who refuses for well thought out personal reasons?

This is a disgrace.

Just play by the rules and life is pretty normal. This is what people need to understand, the anti-vaxxers who make this all sound so terrible are not just 'anti-vaxxers', that choice is fine The anti-vaxxers who make all the fuss about this are anti establishment. I won't name names or my post will be removed but we know who they are and the 'outrage' they will suggest.

Obviously it would make a huge difference, if only a handful of people are there because of omicron, because their stated motivation for these additional restrictions is rooted in preventing it's spread.

If it’s delta, and people are coming in because of omicron, that’s a problem. If it’s omicron, and more people are coming in because of omicron, that’s a problem.

Discrimination and segregation

Something you have expressed to be completely fine with, but only as long as the people being discriminated and segregated believe something different than you.

How about the millions of young women (and thier partners) who are pregnant or plan on pregnancy who are unsure what the scriptures vaccine will do to their babies?

Well, they could be much more relaxed knowing that the dangers of COVID (which is a well identified cause for problems for the baby (premature birth, low weight, etc) and also something that increases over 20 times their own risk of death can be reduced thanks to the vaccines.

Why force them or anyone else who refuses for well thought out personal reasons?

Nobody is being forced, people are simply dealing with the consequences of their decisions that put others at risk, including the pregnant young women you talked about. Are you fine with people increasing the chance of infection for them even if that makes them or their babies much more likely to die?

That would be a disgrace.

You're deemed “unvaccinated” until 21 days has passed since your 2nd injection.

A high number of infections occur within the first couple of weeks after the vax (ADE?). I bet these infections are also counted as unvaxxed.

Macron's latest pis aller measures have indeed now literally become a "pardon-the-French" "piss oof" to all those folks who want to muscle their way into venues unvaccinated. It's a good lesson to put out for all those selfish wannabe Djokovices. "Merci", Macron! - your French chutzpah, c'est "Magnifique"!

A high number of infections occur within the first couple of weeks after the vax (ADE?).

That is not what ADE means, the mechanism do not facilitate infection (nor it has been observed on COVID) people shuld be considered without full vaccination before they actually have time to develop immunity thanks to the vaccines.

There is no reason why a healthy person should not get vaccinated. Perhaps they need to catch polio, diphtheria, TB or whooping cough to remind them how important vaccination is for the whole of society.

A high number of infections occur within the first couple of weeks after the vax (ADE?). I bet these infections are also counted as unvaxxed.

Yeah, a number of groups have reported this (including Didier Raoult), but I'm not sure it's ADE. Might just be the vaccine adversely affecting the overall immune system.

There is no reason why a healthy person should not get vaccinated.

There is no reason why a healthy person should get vaccinated, especially now with Omicron. I would only recommend them, at most, for the vulnerable.

Perhaps they need to catch polio, diphtheria, TB or whooping cough to remind them how important vaccination is for the whole of society.

Different diseases and very different vaccines. Perhaps they need to suffer vaccine adverse effects to understand that these vaccines come with significant risks and are best avoided if they are not needed.

I had a bad reaction to the first shot and have ongoing symptoms as a result. I will not be getting my second shot, but no doctor is taking me seriously either. I suspect there's thousands if not more people like this who are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Rather than focussing on making life more difficult for 'unvaccinated' people, how about we focus on, oh I don't know, developing better vaccines and making antivirals more widely available?

With sufficient resources, for example, we could have vaccines that provide sterilizing immunity, work in the nasal passages, and are effective against all or a large subset of coronavirus families and variants. There is so much more we could do instead of just focussing on scapegoating unvaxxed, single vaxxed, double vaxxed and so on until the nth booster.

I understand the need to protect the vulnerable and health care capacity etc. etc., but the extremely narrow vision of Macron and other leaders on rolling out booster after booster and going after the folks not updated with the latest shot makes me sad.

How come they need this, if 91% of the population is vaccinated and the rest have less than 5% chance of needing to be hospitalized ?

antivaxxer just spreading misinformation as thats all they have.

A quick search shows you only 75% of France is fully vaxxed

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

France like every other country doesnt want it hospitals overflowing with covid patients, the vast majority

of which are unvaxxed, fact backed by multiple different countries.

Perhaps they need to catch polio, diphtheria, TB or whooping cough to remind them how important vaccination is for the whole of society.

thats the irony, most antivaxxers have probably already had those shots as a kid

Just more dystopian control under the guise of being "for our own good".

Perhaps they need to catch polio, diphtheria, TB or whooping cough to remind them how important vaccination is for the whole of society.

thats the irony, most antivaxxers have probably already had those shots as a kid

It's not irony, it just clearly illustrates that we are not antivaxxers. We are simply opposed to pushing these new and very risky vaccines (deaths and other adverse effects are off the charts) on everyone for a virus that has little effect on most people. And this is now more true than ever, with the effects of Omicron being overall comparable, if not milder, than those of the vaccine.

Just play by the rules and life is pretty normal. This is what people need to understand, the anti-vaxxers who make this all sound so terrible are not just 'anti-vaxxers', that choice is fine The anti-vaxxers who make all the fuss about this are anti establishment. I won't name names or my post will be removed but we know who they are and the 'outrage' they will suggest.

Remember when the left were anti-establishment?

Good times.

Raw Beer - Different diseases and very different vaccines. Perhaps they need to suffer vaccine adverse effects to understand that these vaccines come with significant risks and are best avoided if they are not needed

What a complete and utter load of garbage! Only a very small number have experienced adverse effects to the Covid vaccines. However, the vaccines have kept millions out of the ICU and avoided death. It’s one thing be against the vaccines, but it’s a completely different thing to be a complete idiot.

theResidentToday 08:43 am JST

Just play by the rules and life is pretty normal.

You can tell the authoritarian Left has captured the institutions of the West over the last 60 years or so: They are now yelling at everyone 'to play by the rules' and 'trust the authorities.' It would be comical if it were not so dangerous.

It's your choice to be vaccinated or not. But live with your choice. If you choose to be unvaccinated, then don't go to public places and put others at risk. Stay in your own home with your own friends and live happily.

Great, no more coddling the stupid and letting them clog up the hospitals crowding out people who are ill not by choice as is the case with the anti-vaxxers losers. Pubic health concerns are more important than stupid behavior by the deluded. Society makes these rules all the time to protect us all from harm. Think auto insurance for example.

lucky that Japan is not France.

So I'm guessing this will be adopted as an EU wide policy, so the UK no longer being in the EU could become a residence destination for the anti vax crowd

If this coronavirus mutates into something worse, what France is doing now will be considered normal. Maybe restaurants and bars that want to cater to the unvaccinated should post signs in front: Unvaccinated Welcome!

In the meantime, create vaccine passports that are like driver’s licenses for people going to establishments (Vaccinated Only) that only welcome the vaccinated.

That’s fair, isn’t it?

I don't know the situation in France, but currently in the USA the ICU's are overwhelmed with the unvaccinated.

but only as long as the people being discriminated and segregated believe something different than you.

Bingo, not surprisingly many of the anti-government far right, members of the "it's my body" herds, post screeds about people of color and especially women of color.

Yeah, it sucks. But we can't do anything about government's taking away our rights, except shoot all the politicians, and that's a bad idea.

It's looking less bad by the day.

Thankfully there's a small handful of politicians, vaccinated or otherwise, who are sticking their necks out to defend the rights of people to who want the freedom to decide whether to put experimental gene therapy into their bodies, or not continue to do so after already having receive one or more COVID jabs.

As for the rest, the post would be deleted if I said what should happen to them. Suffice to say that France has a certain history and Macron would be deserving of similar treatment.

ah - but then it is NOT 'experimental gene therapy' - so, they are sticking their necks out for a conspiratorial lie :) Freedom to be vaccinated or not is something quite different.

David Brent

Great news! Nothing worse than being around selfish and stupid anti-vaxxers!

You can travel back in time and find the same othering and hatred against a scapegoat group in all dictatorial regimes.

Meanwhile, can you explain how the vaccinated are endangered by the unvaccinated, seeing that the vaccine is supposed to protect them?

virusrex

That is not what ADE means, the mechanism do not facilitate infection (nor it has been observed on COVID) people shuld be considered without full vaccination before they actually have time to develop immunity thanks to the vaccines.

Did you now forget the little fact that the mRNA shots do NOT provide immunity? That argument has gone out of the window. The current argument is that they keep people out of hospital, not providing immunity.

Meanwhile, can you explain how the vaccinated are endangered by the unvaccinated, seeing that the vaccine is supposed to protect them?

Yes: the vaccines are about 95% effective against the original strain, which means that there is a 5% chance you could get infected. If someone unvaccinated passes it to you during, say, a meeting, you could get sick. But if that same person was vaccinated, and they hit the 95%, the risk is reduced.

Additionally, the more people (who are mostly unvaccinated) who contract the disease, the more chances it has to mutate into something like Delta or Omicron, where the vaccines can become less effective.

It's not "othering and hatred against a scapegoat group" to be angry at those too selfish to get two shots in their arm to help themselves and others, because they'd rather believe that 5G towers are going to microwave their toes, or something.

And France is not a dictatorial regime. It has free and fair elections.

More than 76% of French ICU beds are occupied by virus patients, most of them unvaccinated, 

...but earlier in the article it says that 91% of the population is vaccinated, which probably means close to 100% of the elderly. So those pesky remaining 9%, most of them probably in the young and healthy group, are filling up the ICU beds?

I do not see how that can possibly make sense. Do we have confirmation of all these young healthy refusers in ICU?

Someone is playing with the numbers here.

Yeah, a number of groups have reported this (including Didier Raoult), but I'm not sure it's ADE. Might just be the vaccine adversely affecting the overall immune system.

There are no reports that indicate any higher infection specially on vaccinated people that is not well explained by epidemiological reasons, much less the vaccine having any deleterious effect on immunity, that is the natural infection. Also, using as a support the baseless claims of a disgraced scientist found to falsificate and fabricate data as well as conducting unethical human trials for personal profit does nothing to support this false explanation, if anything it does the opposite.

There is no reason why a healthy person should get vaccinated, especially now with Omicron. I would only recommend them, at most, for the vulnerable.

The experts (including some that you have said are trustworthy) say the opposite that means your own sources say you are mistaken, of course the scientific consensus do the same.

It's not irony, it just clearly illustrates that we are not antivaxxers

People or groups that oppose vaccines using false information in order to deceive the public can be called antivaxxers without problem. People that do not know better or want more information do not feel the need to present disinformation about vaccines nor present the pandemic and the millions of deaths it has produced as if they had no importance.

You can tell the authoritarian Left has captured the institutions of the West over the last 60 years or so:

When the instititutions of the east (as well as every other place in the planet) say the same because that is what the scientific information has proved that means you have no argument.

The unvaccinated immune system is unaccustomed to spike proteins, so they are being made sick through exposure to the shedding from the vaccinated who are more tolerant

Imaginary processes that are impossible to observe in reality are terribly bad explanations, how much spike protein do you imagine vaccinated people "shed" and for how long?

It's looking less bad by the day.

Yes, thanks to the vaccines and their obvious effects protecting people, antivaxxer groups are left without any argument that does not sound crazy to anybody with a minimum of common sense and scientific literacy.

Also, the natural infection is much more close to gene therapy (because it actively represses the expression of genes involved in the immune response) Vaccines would then be preventing this negative gene therapy from affecting the body.

These tyrannical policies seem to be working well to keep the numbers low don’t they. We keep hearing about health responsibility but miss out on a big part of the discussion because it doesn’t fit into the narrative/agenda. I can guarantee that someone of my health and weight unvaxxed is less likely to burden the health service the next year than someone weight 20 KG more.

Obesity, poor diet and lack of exercise are the reason some countries fare far worse than others. You can’t get good health from a jab, society needs an overhaul. We need healthy lifestyles now, this pandemic has shown how badly obesity and poor health has affected this.

Have vaccines if you are elderly and poor health or if you wish one.

Zaphod

More than 76% of French ICU beds are occupied by virus patients, most of them unvaccinated, 

...but earlier in the article it says that 91% of the population is vaccinated, which probably means close to 100% of the elderly. So those pesky remaining 9%, most of them probably in the young and healthy group, are filling up the ICU beds?

I do not see how that can possibly make sense. Do we have confirmation of all these young healthy refusers in ICU?

Someone is playing with the numbers here.

Yes the article is incorrect. Only 75% of French people are fully vaccinated (2 doses).

@Lindsay What a complete and utter load of garbage! Only a very small number have experienced adverse effects to the Covid vaccines.

The deaths associated with the vaccines are 36,000 in Europe and 25,000 in the US. In Japan, the number as of Oct 24 is 1,325. I doubt Omicron will be deadlier than that.

However, the vaccines have kept millions out of the ICU and avoided death.

Many of those deaths could have been prevented with certain supplements and treatments.

2020hindsights

Yes the article is incorrect. Only 75% of French people are fully vaccinated (2 doses).

Do you want to argue that with the article writer? The article says:

"More than 91% of French adults are already fully vaccinated,"

So, according to this article, is is those pesky 9%, many of them young, to occupy those ICU beds. Are you not serious to see any evidence for that?

The deaths associated with the vaccines are 36,000 in Europe and 25,000 in the US. In Japan, the number as of Oct 24 is 1,325. I doubt Omicron will be deadlier than that.

All of this is untrue.

The deaths associated with the vaccines are 36,000 in Europe and 25,000 in the US. In Japan, the number as of Oct 24 is 1,325. I doubt Omicron will be deadlier than that.

That is dangerous antivaxxer disinformation, the deaths in vaccinated population are in the same rates as in the unvaccinated population, therefore they are NOT associated with the vaccines. This has been repeatedly debunked in both the media and the scientific populations, so there is no excuse to repeat that misleading false information.

taking supplements to aid outcomes is now considered quack science and misinformation by many in society, including some who comment here.

What is disinformation is to say young healthy people are immune to problems from COVID or that vaccines do not lower the risk for them, many people use this false argument to say vaccines are not beneficial except for limited populations which can be proved false.

Virusrex

Maybe so, but I have NEVER claimed that lung people are immune to Covid problems or the vaccines do not lower the risk for them. Please stop spreading disinformation regarding my comments that taint my credibility,.

virusrex

That is dangerous antivaxxer disinformation, the deaths in vaccinated population are in the same rates as in the unvaccinated population, therefore they are NOT associated with the vaccines.

Which deaths? And who is "unvaccinated"? I.e. the CDC defines people as "unvaccinated" for 2 weeks after getting the shot, so those who have immediate, sometimes lethal, reaction to the shot are counted as unvaccinated. Talk about playing games with numbers!

What is disinformation is to say young healthy people are immune to problems from COVID

Nobody said "immune" however all statistical breakdowns I have seen show there are practically zero deaths and health risks in that age group. If you have other data, pls show them. And stop the name-calling, it does not contribute to debate.

Liberty, equality, fraternity indeed

Maybe so, but I have NEVER claimed that lung people are immune to Covid problems or the vaccines do not lower the risk for them.

And I did not claim that you did, just that what you said was presented as disinformation was not the target of the criticism but the points that come too frequently with them, which can be validly be qualified as such.

Which deaths? And who is "unvaccinated"? 

The deaths being misrepresented as "associated" with vaccines, unvaccinated as those that have not been immunized. For the purposes of problems or deaths related with the vaccines all people that have received even one dose are considered vaccinated.

the CDC defines people as "unvaccinated" for 2 weeks after getting the shot, so those who have immediate, sometimes lethal, reaction to the shot are counted as unvaccinated. 

that information is completely false, if someone gets a reaction the same minute is getting the first dose that is counted as vaccinated. What you are misrepresenting as unvaccinated is actually the people that are not considered "Fully vaccinated" which is not something of importance for vaccine side effects but for protection against COVID.

Nobody said "immune" however all statistical breakdowns I have seen show there are practically zero deaths and health risks in that age group.

Why don't you present such statistics so anybody can see how many deaths you are willing to consider "practically zero", then we can compare them with the actual deaths that can be associated with the vaccines.

occer player Alphonso Davies is out indefinitely due to heart issues. after getting vaccinated and then still catching COVID.

Thus proving that even healthy young people are at risk of serious health problems thanks to COVID, vaccines help reducing these problems but unless everybody is vaccinated and herd immunity is achieved failures are going to happen and even young and healthy people will be affected (in much less numbers if vaccinated of course)