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2 pardoned U.S. journalists leave North Korea with Bill Clinton

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What a diplomat!

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What a diplomat!

yeah, one apology sets two women free !

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the wrong Clinton was chosen for Sec of state. Bill was always better at talking with leaders of the world. even the crazy ones.

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So what did this really cost?

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Bill had also asked the North for two interns and a box of Cuban cigars but was turned down.

He was quoted as saying that Kim Jong II still drives a hard bargan!

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Once again proving the republicans are totally clueless on foreign policy and the democrats have to bail them out. Bill was ready to go to NK at the end of his presidency. If he did that NK would not be a nuclear power now but no, the bush band of idiots derailed the sunshine policy and pushed NK to go nuclear.

Anyway, its good that these two dopey journalists are freed. If bush instead of Clinton had gone they would be dead now. If bush did go he could see the america he was trying to create in the last 8 years in real time.

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I think Kim took what he could get. He did not want those two young women messing things up. He was hoping this would all get done during his little fireworks show, when he thought he could really milk the whole panic deal. Now he wants to drop that hot potato. If he had given them to Hillary, that would have been best, because it would have been official. Giving them to Bill, well, he assumes that it will mean something. Maybe it will. Probably not. Bide your time America. Grind them down.

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Klien2,

its been 56 years since the Korean war ended. Like Cuba the containment policy has failed with NK. The old and tired policies of the 1950s need to be junked and both NK, the USA and the rest of the world need to move on. The Axis of Evil policy was a throwback policy doomed to failure.

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Good job by Bill, but I suspect he was there just to pick them up, not to really negotiate their release. But it was an interesting move by Obama and I like it.

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I have doubt that NK released 2 journalists for nothing. How much the US compromised for release?

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SuperLib: "Good job by Bill, but I suspect he was there just to pick them up, not to really negotiate their release. But it was an interesting move by Obama and I like it."

I agree, although I think the cost of setting them free was simply for a president or past president to show up and pay homage to KJI. Holding them UNTIL then was simply to save face. Anyway, good move by Clinton (and the current WH), and a good result.

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Clinton really had nothing to do with this. There already had been plenty of negotiations, and they picked Clinton because he is a recognized figure, but private. That way Obama administration didn't have to give any "official" recognition to Kim. It's not like he went there on his own accord, and did this all himself. You can be sure he was following orders. It was a win/win situation.

Kim gets to feel like he is getting international respect Journalists get released. Clinton gets back in the spotlight a bit Obama administration saves face by not appearing to cave.

All in all, a brilliant bit of diplomacy.

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Whatever he did I am assuming that it required a lot of bribery. I guess we'll have to wait and see what that turns out to be.

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zurc

Bill was ready to go to NK at the end of his presidency. If he did that NK would not be a nuclear power now

Yeah they would. Clinton, because of his failed Agreed Framework policy, is one of the reasons NK has nukes today. You're obviously not familiar with it so perhaps you should educate yourself. At least Bush wasn't delusional into believing NK would stop its nuke program with incentives and hand shakes like the naive democrats.

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I can't believe the arguments here today. Look, two young ladies were freed, regardless of how they were freed, they are now free and that should be the end of the story.

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now, how about Bill going to Iran and getting those recent American freed. He's batting a 1000 now.

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Clinton really had nothing to do with this. There already had been plenty of negotiations,

bamboohat; His wife Hillary, who is a Secretary of State probably had big influence on this release, with approval from Obama. Give Bill Clinton a big credit, he did his job well. Main thing is he go these two ladies out of NK.

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helter skelter,

nice try but like most republican replies it is wrong on fact. Korea went nuclear during the bush administration and in direct response to the bush axis of evil policies Bush crushed the sunshine policy for which a nobel prize was awarded and pushed NK into a corner resulting in the removal of inspectors and nuclear testing. Its is that simple. The current idiot in power in SK is a bush clone and of course is making things worse as well.

Bush tried at the end of his failed administration to try to turn around NK by removing them from the terrorist list and offering them bribes to stop nuclear development. It was too little too late and Kim just laughed in bushs face. He knew that Obama and the sane people would be taking over soon. What a farce and a total failure, up there with the Iraq invasion and the see into the soul of Putin bush russian policy failure.

Again, it takes clinton and now obama democrat to clean up the failures of the republicants. Two americans are coming home due to clinton and democratic diplomacy.

Get your facts straight if you want to discuss this matter.

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watch the news this morning. evil kim did smile in many occasion! that's something hardly seen for me.

i don't really remember see he smiles when meet and take photos with american, s.korean or japanese authorities before.

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Great work by Bill Clinton! He rolled up, cracked a few jokes with Kim Jong, blasted a couple of tunes on his sax, and walked out with a lady on each arm.

Vlad Putin is the only other world leader man enough to pull off a stunt like this.

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Although they were guilty of a crime and the financial cost to obtain a pardon must be massive, I have to take off my hat to Mr Clinton. I am totally surprised and this kind of direct contact is very very welcome. Well done dude.

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There's very little to worry about whether there were hidden costs or compromises made in this deal.

For one, NK would have to take our word that we'd honor up on whatever so called secret deals some people are theorising. We'd have very little reason to want to anyway, since NK hadn't honored up on their agreements.

So we can reliably assume promises of material use, or alliances were not made.

All I can see here for certain is that NK wanted world recognition, as everyone else is coming to conclude.

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SEOUL — North Korean leader Kim Jong Il issued a “special pardon” for two jailed American journalists and ordered their release at former U.S. President Bill Clinton’s request, North Korean media reported Wednesday.

This is a great story, diplomacy gets 2 Americans freed from a North Korean jail.

But our dear friends on the right seem to not be too happy that that evil tool (D.I.P.L.O.M.A.C.Y.) was used again by the left. At this rate the left may correct our imagine overseas using that evil evil tool....LOL

When will the far right get the idea that that tool does work. The world may never know....LOL

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Not only do Obama and Clinton have style, they make the world a safer place.

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WHO CARES IF THIS WAS PAID FOR. IT'S BETTER THAN GOING TO WAR!

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Kick ass, I always did like Mr Clinton!

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Nice work, Bill.

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So Bill takes his first steps on the road to Sainthood, glory be!!!

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Helter: "At least Bush wasn't delusional into believing NK would stop its nuke program with incentives and hand shakes like the naive democrats."

Funny, but I don't remember it being BUSH who went over there to get the two people out. Had it been, he would have rightfully been thrown in an NK slammer.

Anyway, as Zurc pointed out, if bush was so just in his opinions with NK, why did he delist them at the end of his presidency?

Once again, good job, Mr. Clinton. Helter can't bring himself to say it, but I'm sure he's happy some Americans were freed thanks to you.

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Bill you rock

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I am glad that the two girls are free now. Clinton was a leader with style, just like Putin. I miss the days under their leadership when the world was still in order.

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Putin is still around, you know.

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At any rate, the young ladies better be thanking their lucky stars they were bailed out.

The picture above? THAT is what Kim was waiting for.

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smithinjapan, The reason why it wasn't bush going over there is because if I'm not mistaken the two people were not being held durng the time of bush presidency.

Zurc, I would disagree, NK went nuclear during clinton presidency hence all of the diplomatic work during that time, bush also didn't kill the sunshine policy considering the sunshine policy lasted until 2008 and plus the south korean president who was elected, was it 2002 or 2003, said he wouldn't be a puppet of the US. I would like to see what evidence you have to present that the US caused the sunshine policy to be "crushed"

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I am glad that the two girls are free now. Clinton was a leader with style, just like Putin. I miss the days under their leadership when the world was still in order.

Foxie, under Putin he ordered his troops to storm a school in Chechnyia and many students were killed and the other times he weilded a rough hand when dealing with dissent in Russia.

Clinton was ok, but he did not stop bin Laden when he had the chance, and also gave concessions to nK so that they are where they are today with nuclear weapons.

Funny how so many here seem to villify the right on this board. nK has been around for many administrations and guess what, they are still the same as they were in 1953. Nothing to do with "W" or any of the Rep.

Glad to see they got out. Must make Gore really feel low. They worked for his network and he doesn't have enough "gravitas" to get invited to pick them up.

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But our dear friends on the right seem to not be too happy that that evil tool (D.I.P.L.O.M.A.C.Y.) was used again by the left. At this rate the left may correct our imagine overseas using that evil evil tool....LOL

When will the far right get the idea that that tool does work. The world may never know....LOL

Joe Biggs, I seem to remember that Obama had mentioned that we should open a dialouge with nK and Cuba. Well if he is such a believer in this, why didn't he just come out in the open and ask for their release and open direct talks. Sure he used diplomacy, but it is still the same old song and dance. Behind the doors, secret sessions, agreements probably made that we will not know about until something else happens. So much for being a "transparent Administration."

People blamed "W" for all of his back room deals, and here we have the same thing going on. Before others start yelling I don't know what I am talking about, I do understand that you don't put everything you plan on doing in the open press so that your plans are known, but I do know that if it really warranted sending an ex President, then maybe he should have been a bit more forth coming with asking for negotiations with nK. What we have now is just another Democratic Administration that is doing the same thing that the Repbulican & Democratic Administrations before it since 1953 have done. Just appease this country and not bold enough to say, "give us our people back (and I don't mean to go to war over them either) but to resort to the same tactics of back room deals instead of open debate with the country.

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So much for the six-party nuclear disarmament talks. Boy-oh-boy, Bill's going to get a spankin' from Hillary when he gets home.

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Alphaape at 02:07 PM JST - 5th August Just appease this country and not bold enough to say, "give us our people back (and I don't mean to go to war over them either) but to resort to the same tactics of back room deals instead of open debate with the country.

Backroom deals are done all the time, this is not the first case and it will not be the last. The best thing that came out of this is our people are free.

Diplomacy is a game best left to the professionals, and our President has shown himself to be a very good player.

It is better to play the game then to lose live while not playing it. To me and most who are not far right wingers this was a win win for us.

The far right would of rather sent someone else's son or daughter to die.

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Great stuff by Bill Clinton.

Despite the WH denying this had their approval. let's face it - Bill's wife is Secretary of State - of course the WH knew about it and very likely planned it, highlighting the importance, value and effectiveness of smart diplomacy, sadly, something the previous U.S. administration only paid lip service to.

While bush would have been cowboy talking, President Obama has kep right out of this and the strategy has worked masterfully.

Clever thinking. It's something the GOP just doesn't do.

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Diplomacy is a game best left to the professionals, and our President has shown himself to be a very good player.

So I guess the rest of us "unwashed masses" are not smart enough to understand the "back room deals" that have brought us to the world we have today, from both Dems and Reps.

To me and most who are not far right wingers this was a win win for us.

What exactly did we "win" with their release? I am glad that they got free but what did it take. Since diplomacy is a "backroom deal" by your own words some deal was made. So what did we give to nK to get them free, and most importantly is it worth it? I am sure that next week we will probably see a missile fired by nK and we will be right back where we started.

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Alphaape - "What exactly did we "win" with their release?"

The vaporization of a very possible bargaining chip for NK.

Credibility

Kudos for Bill Clinton and the Obama Administration

And Kim-il Jeong gets a nice photo for his wall.

Total win-win.

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Kim Jung Il gets to use this for his own propaganda purposes to further enslave his own people. Of course they released the reporters to Bill afterall bill let them have nukes, the same thing will go for Iran they will like obama also if obama lets them get nukes which he certianly looks like he will do.

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"Of course they released the reporters to Bill afterall bill let them have nukes, the same thing will go for Iran they will like obama also if obama lets them get nukes which he certianly looks like he will do."

It's a big day for the Right Wingers to let out some pent up frustration, by the sounds of it. :-)

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It's a big day for the Right Wingers to let out some pent up frustration, by the sounds of it. :-)

The vaporization of a very possible bargaining chip for NK.

SushiSake3, I don't think of it as a matter of the "right or left" two people were freed but at what costs?

But if you want to make it a left or right issue, nK still has a barganing chip, namely a few nukes that they have made. So as long as they have them (since they did explode one and knows it works) really no need to keep the women. What credibility did we gain? Has nK come out and said that they will come back to the 6 party talks and will turn in their nukes? No, they just did a gesture like this to make people who think similar to what some of the posters who would identify themselves as on the "left" with the feeling they have won. They have won nothing.

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I always thought Billy pants down looked like a cabbage patch doll, but i think he has a nice heart and good intentions, unlike yucky wucky Bush.

Good on him for going there.

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NKorea will get much food from the US. That's why 2 journalists were released. There were no negotiations about nukes, 6 party talks, etc. NKorea just wants food as winter will come soon.

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Ktwatt; i think it was a gesture of goodwill sweeheart. Also it is the way diplomacy works. I hope North Korea has enough to eat and keep warm, i hate to think about suffering.

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It is better to play the game then to lose live while not playing it. To me and most who are not far right wingers this was a win win for us.

JoeBiggs, so according to you, it is all just a "game." The only difference is someone on your "side" is playing. So it doesn't really matter who plays since in either case, some young person is eventually going to go off and fight to die, or in this case for nK, no matter who is in power in Washington, some nK citizen is either going to get sent to the gulag or die of hunger. All the while those who know how to "wheel and deal" eat well and keep their status.

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from cnn

In a phone call to their families in July, Ling and Lee said the North Koreans were open to granting amnesty if a high-level envoy, such as former President Clinton, were willing to travel to Pyongyang, a senior administration official said.

i wonder if they requested J.W.Bush, would he go?

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A deal may have been negotiated, but for whatever reasons, the Obama Administration did get the two Americans freed. Quite remarkable given the tensions involved w/ the DPRK. Subtle diplomacy such as this is impressive. Former Pres. Clinton looked good in this situation.

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In this picture, Kim looks a lot like Toby in Lord Of The Rings...

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What did the USA pay for their release? What will that money be used for?

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Congratulations Bill for a great PR & top class diplomacy - however, to the best of my knowledge and understanding, the only reason why Kim Jong Il agreed to release the two journalist is a way to say sorry for having called Bills wife Hillary "Funny Lady" and "Old Age Pensioner going shopping" and finally, "a primary school girl" who does not know what she wants.Of course, all this was behind the scene and not for general public knowledge, but, the other reason is that Kim and the North Koreans like America and would like to develop a deep relationship. American should stop call North Korea and others "Axis of Evil".

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Alphaape at 05:56 PM JST - 5th August What exactly did we "win" with their release?

Your right, maybe we should have forgotten about our American citizens being held in North Korea and done nothing. Far right logic never ceases to amaze me....Well said Alphaape....

Alphaape at 05:56 PM JST - 5th August JoeBiggs, so according to you, it is all just a "game."

Diplomacy is a game like any other, it is like playing chess. You plan your moves and he who has the upper hand in the end wins.

To help you understand what I mean, here is a bit of history for you. Read enjoy and be amazed by the skill of some diplomats.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1962-cuba-un1.html

Stevenson was a master diplomat and he shined on that debate. If you are good at what you do and you use all your assets you will have leverage against your opponent.

But if you never play the game,(like the former Administration did) you will look worse in the end. Most strategist win not by force but by skill. Our President is showing he is skilled in the art of diplomacy.

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"So much for the six-party nuclear disarmament talks. Boy-oh-boy, Bill's going to get a spankin' from Hillary when he gets home."

You know that is what he was anglin' for. He did not do it for the money or the publicity after all. Personally, I would let Hillary spank me if I got to spank her first. hee hee.

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"What did the USA pay for their release? What will that money be used for?"

I would bet that NK got close to bupkis, if you do not count Brownie points. As I posted above, they were hoping that the US would do something on or before July 4, when they had their big propaganda fest. After that went over like a lead zeppelin, they were looking to unload these journalists for whatever they could get. They got a visit from an ex President, for only the second time in history, I guess, so that counts for something.

Knowing from the get go that they would be released, Kim probably also wanted them out before they got too many eyewitness accounts of weirdness. Even so, they will have stories to tell. Anyone else anxious to hear what they have to tell us about their experiences?

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Let's not forget Kim Jong Ill in his way reached out, and whatever went on behind the scenes, made a humanitarian gesture and set free the reporters. Personally I appreciate that.

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Take note Japan. The U.S. and North Korea are buddies. Who sells you the Patriot Missile System to protect you from NK? See the con-game for what it is.

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How can the Americans justify calling them "Axil of Evil" - who dropped >the Atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki ???

Wow, let's take events 65 years apart and compare them totally out of context. What meds are you on?

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Until the U.S. stops its' financial terrorism and world bullying -it will always be a difficult relationship. Clinton years = good relationship. GW Bush/Iraq war/terrorist years/Obama = no relationship =that is a drastic difference.

Keep in mind that NK has few resources = NK is insignificant at this time. The financial terrorists have their goals set elsewhere. So why all the NK saber-rattling and posturing by Obama and Hillary?

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JoeBiggs, No need for the history lesson since I have a Master's in that subject. Prety amazing also since as you seem to think that because I question what deals were made that I am on the right, when most of my professors were lefties as yourself.

Yes Diplomacy works. But it was also the great Chinese philospher that said something to the effect that war was just another means of Diplomacy. So no matter if you are a left or right president and playing the "game" as you call it, you still have that option of war and all I want to know is what did the US have to give up to get these two released.

If they negotiated that the nK govt will not use their nukes and stop further research and come back to the tables for talks, then bravo to Bil and then Obama Admin. But if we got nothing in return, save just a chance to make a photo op, then I guess we got "checkmated."

So, let me type this slowly so you can understand: I am glad the ladies are released. Now, let's see what an ex President and the current "Saviour of the World" can deliver. I truly suspect that we will be back to the same old games with the country as we have in the past. And if you call that skilled diplomacy, then "W" was just as skilled. At least during his time they didn't explode any nukes.

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It's well known that Kim Jong Il is not only star struck but wants the prestige of a visit from a sitting president. In Clinton he got 1.75 of those 2 things. He was visited by a guy who is as much a celebrity as a former president and while not a sitting president still a very influential former president. I'm not sure what else we had to give away to get their release but seeing Clinton on the world stage in this manner makes me misty eyed for the 90s when things didn't suck for the US. Lucky for the journalists and thankyou Bill Clinton, you did good work.

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Thanks Bill and Obama,

Looks like the DPRK will still an active going on concern for a very long time now.

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Nineteenth-century military theorist Karl von Clausewitz wrote that war is an extension of politics, but by other means.

Maybe you should have paid more attention.

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Re: DPRNK and diplomacy

Now we can see what Democrats can accomplish. And how Republicans, with all their talk, and all their bullying, fail.

Carrot and stick.

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SanManjt, thanks for the assist, got him mixed up with Sun Tzu.

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Re: DPRNK and diplomacy

Now we can see what Democrats can accomplish. And how Republicans, with all their talk, and all their bullying, fail.

Carrot and stick

Again I am asking, what did we really accomplish. I understand that 2 women were freed, but with all of this talk of diploamcy and accomplishment being thrown around on the board, what did we get out of it? Diplomacy, from what I understand is basically high class barganing.

So for all of those who say this is such a great diplomatic move, what did it costs us? Since I am a U.S. taxpayer and I imagine more of my hard earned tax money will be spent buying aid and sending it to the country, can someone at least tell me how much it is going to cost me?

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We got two Americans.

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Alphaape: Being a U.S. Taxpayer your ultimate costs will be loss of all constitutional rights and slavery for yourself. =You are a debtor to the Federal Reserve system. It is not about money (fiat paper), but control of all assets.

These bankers want to control every country and make it one controlled by the elites (not you). In their minds you owe them and have their money, but you must slave for them (work for the lowest amount of return)

Japan is part of the same system. =more taxes, more debt, less pay, more law

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Badsey

Your right. The answer to all of our problems is Libertarian populism.

Good luck with that.

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Good on ya, Bill. Always admired the guy.

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I'm with you Badsey!

Fight the power!!

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Noliving, just look up the sunshine policy on the web. It ended when bush cut off NK from US diplomacy just weeks after Clinton, while still president, was planning to visit. It was tragic what bush did but he and his band of idiots only knew one thing when it came to foreign matters, do the opposite of Clinton. Like with Iraq. Of course bush reversed himself in the last year and attempted to bribe NK but Kim just laughed in his face and refused to negotiate with the bush losers.

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STUPID Journalists! I wonder How much or what the US gave up to get these 2 idiots back. Especially the one with a child to put her through such ordeal. Besides...what hard labor? They look just fine, probably stationed in some hotel with room service while the rest of the country is really starving.

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The state-run media (in America, not North Korea) can't get enough of this supposed 'rescue' of two misguided idealists working for Clinton's former VP.

For amusement I like to imagine what the tone and reaction would be if two women working for former VP Cheney were taken by the North Koreans and released only after former president Bush had traveled to Pyongyang, groveled before Dear Leader Kimmie,and paid a ransom.

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Alphaape at 12:13 AM JST - 6th August I am glad the ladies are released. Now, let's see what an ex President and the current "Saviour of the World" can deliver.

Good point, but if you look at what the North really wanted you may see it for what it was. They want us back at the table and just gave us a pawn to have us talk to them.

The North tried to get us to flinch with their use of missile. When that did not work they tried it with nukes. Well that did not work either and they were getting worried. So what did they do? They sent a request for a sit down with any top level American.

Now we have the advantage in any up coming talks.

Alphaape at 12:13 AM JST - 6th August I truly suspect that we will be back to the same old games with the country as we have in the past.

That is what the North wants but every time we went back to the table it was under their terms. This it seems we hold an advantage.

Alphaape at 12:13 AM JST - 6th August And if you call that skilled diplomacy, then "W" was just as skilled. At least during his time they didn't explode any nukes.

W's use of diplomacy was little more than a give and give. From the get go his administration tried "the fist in your face tactic". When we went to the table North Korea had many advantages because we went in there with the bully tactic. That did not work and eight years later we are back to the table again. But this time we have an advantage.

Alphaape at 11:50 PM JST - 5th August Prety amazing also since as you seem to think that because I question what deals were made that I am on the right, when most of my professors were lefties as yourself.

Funny how you place me in the leftist spectrum because I questioned your argument. Interesting (scribbles note on paper brain) very interesting indeed. So how long have you felt anger when others question you? Hm

Alphaape at 11:50 PM JST - 5th August So, let me type this slowly so you can understand:

My my no one has ever been so kind as to type so sloooow to allow even me to understand their brilliance....LOL

I must have gotten to you and your brilliance. For that I am sorry, but if you would open up one or more of your books and see who else calls diplomacy a game of chess. It may surprise you.....

History is a great teacher as long as you learn from it.

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tuneintokyo at 08:06 PM JST - 5th August What did the USA pay for their release? What will that money be used for?

I was wondering about your post yesterday. What makes you think what they got was money?

Badsey at 12:27 AM JST - 6th August Alphaape: Being a U.S. Taxpayer your ultimate costs will be loss of all constitutional rights and slavery for yourself. =You are a debtor to the Federal Reserve system. It is not about money (fiat paper), but control of all assets.

Once more the talks turn to the loss of all our rights because of that evil evil use of DIPLOMACY. As always Badsey a very interesting argument there.

Badsey at 12:27 AM JST - 6th August These bankers want to control every country and make it one controlled by the elites (not you). In their minds you owe them and have their money, but you must slave for them (work for the lowest amount of return)

So is North Korea part of this great conspiracy? Hm....Now where did I put my tip skull cap?

Now back to the evils of diplomacy.

Alphaape at 11:50 PM JST - 5th August But it was also the great Chinese philospher that said something to the effect that war was just another means of Diplomacy.

Correction here, if I am not mistake Karl von Clausewitz was the person who made that statement, I will find it for you. Sun Tzu quoted something a bit different.

Alphaape at 12:13 AM JST - 6th August Again I am asking, what did we really accomplish.

I will use a few quotes from great strategist of history...

Sun Tzu: When envoys are sent with compliments in their mouths, it is a sign that the enemy wishes for a truce.

Karl von Clausewitz quotes: No one starts a war -- or rather no one in his senses ought to do so -- without first being clear in his mind what he intends to achieve in that war and how he intends to conduct it.

Karl von Clausewitz quotes: War is not merely a political act but a real political instrument, a continuation of political intercourse, a carrying out of the same by other means.

I believe the above quote is the one you were referring to.....

Will Rogers: Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock.

Tony Benn: All war represents a failure of diplomacy

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Funny how you place me in the leftist spectrum because I questioned your argument. Interesting (scribbles note on paper brain) very interesting indeed. So how long have you felt anger when others question you? Hm

JoeBigs, I guess I am just as guilty as the rest of the posters here in associating you with the left. It seems that if anyone posts here saying that they really don't agree with Obama, they are thrown to the right and forever branded as a "W" lover. It seems as if it is the default argument for this board.

Interesting points you make, but I still think if nK wants to really get treated well at the diplomatic table, how about at least living up to the agreements that they have all ready said they would instead of going back on all of them. Better yet, why not show that they will give a bit of relief to their own people and I am sure the world will probably treat them a bit better.

But, as I have stated, I really don't see what we have gained by getting these two out with a former ex President. Glad that they are released, but what will it get us in the long run, when in the past we have given them tremendous amounts of food aid and other support, and they still are the same old place.

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This is good, but the HISTORIC achievement would be the successful resolution in the 6parties talks - that will live on even when all the participants are gone.

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The sunshine policy was a South Korean policy and it ended when the DPRK blew up a nuke, not because of Bush.

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hworta269,

nice try but revisionist storytelling will not cut it. Sunshine policy ended in 2000 when bush took over from clinton and announced that the USA was revisiting its NK policy. All communication stopped and the SK government was cut off at the knees. Then the axis of evil speech and NK kicks in its nuclear efforts. Then years later they detonate the bomb.

Facts, things you republicants just never seem to get right. Like where Obama was born.

Anyway, a democratic ex-president does more in one day than bush did as president in 8 years. Score, the big dog one, the bush losers 6 as in 6 bombs that NK developed while bush was illegally invading Iraq. The bush NK strategy by any measure was a total and complete failure. Once again the democrats have to clean up and restart a sane policy after years or republican failure.

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mp516 at 04:33 AM JST - 6th August

STUPID Journalists! I wonder How much or what the US gave up to get these 2 idiots back. Especially the one with a child to put her through such ordeal. Besides...what hard labor? They look just fine, probably stationed in some hotel with room service while the rest of the country is really starving.

In what respect do you think they are stupid? Are you referring to their actions that put themselves at a life-threatening risk??? I agree they should be held responsible for their own choices and actions, but that does NOT mean they are STUPID. They are the journalists who are taking responsibilities for uncovering and reporting the truth, not some wandering travelers who sneak into the borders and end up being captured by an autocratic regime. Some people will regard their actions as mistakes or wrong choices, but that is not the same as stupidity.

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I lived in South Korea for 3 years, the sunshine policy had nothing to do with America whatsoever, it was a South Korean policy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunshine_Policy

On October 9, 2006, following the nuclear and missile tests, South Korea suspended aid shipments to the North and put their military on high alert status. There is much concern regarding how South Korea can maintain a cooperative policy towards the North when such provocative acts are occurring. [22] Nonetheless, the government of South Korea has insisted that at least some aspects of the Sunshine Policy, including the Mount Gumgang Tourist Region and the Kaesong Industrial Region will continue.

It did not end until North Korea acted foolishly which had NOTHING to do with Bush. You people seem to have a psychosis about Bush though.

North Korea got their propaganda pictures and probably a lot of concessions. They tested a nuke right when Bush got elected and thats a fact of history also that had a little something to do with their isolation. The democrats "sane" policy was to let him develop nuclear weapons.

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Hworta269's post is an excellent refutation of zurcronium's shrill talking points. Unlike the rest of us here, it seems hworta269 has actually lived in Korea.

It always amuses me the way so many America Leftists, like this zurcronium fellow, seem to believe that every move made by nations half way around the globe can only be a reaction which is, mysteriously enough, in perfect accord with his personal feelings about whichever American president he chooses to link the situation to.

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I wonder How much or what the US gave up

I see that some are dutifully parroting the Faux News sound byte concerning President Clinton's accomplishment.

I feel kind of sorry for these people. It must be really confusing to base one's ideology on constant baseless conjecture delivered by bleating talking heads.

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Again, nice try from the bleating crowd of losers who parrot fox news. I too lived in Korea for about 2 years so followed this matter closely.

It matters now what the facts are with the republicants, perfect example is the birthers. Facts are just avoided. The sunshine policy, created under President Kim and supported by Clinton was killed by bush while Kim was still President of Korea. He won a noble prize for his leadership on this policy and bush just cut him off at the knees once he became President. Facts boys, not your make believe world or WMD in Iraq and Obama being born in Kenya.

Bush casts shadow on Korean 'sunshine policy'

Moderator: The URL will suffice.

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Bush halted aid to North Korea after they admitted they had nukes, which they did and tested. That's a fact, and I even quoted a reference to the sunshine policy which had nothing to do whatsoever with America and was halted by South Korea themselves which at the time were very anti American. North Korea not any American president got the sunshine policy ended. South Korea to boot found a few north korean spies working in the anti American groups in South Korea to boot.

North Korean defectors were the harshest critics of the sunshine policy which rewarded North Korea for stopping bad behavior they started for no reason whatsoever.

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I wouldn't be surprised if Clinton promised the best US medical Doctors and technology to come to Pyeongyang to treat Kim's pancreatic cancer.

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