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North Korea rocket installed on launch pad

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A drone should take that thing out before the launch.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

my heartbeats remain Normal - no ups or downs after reading such a lengthy and non-sensational article !

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

what if they misfire and hit kim junior's residence in Pyongyang? celebration will be in order this side of the hemisphere,,,

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Going by the map above I dont really understand why the Japanese are freaking out. I would be more concerned if I was in the Phillipines.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

The Japanese government freak out is for show. Its a political opportunity they are taking full advantage of, much like they do with Megumi Yokota. When they go home and close the door, they laugh their butts off at the people who buy this paranoia crap.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Nicky Washida

You may call it freaking out, but aside from other factors like the alleged violations agains UN santions, the recent US-DPRK food aid deal, and other little details, the GOJ is taking precautions because DPRK have said these exact things before about their previous launches and shot the rockets/missiles over mainland Japan into the Pacific. There's also an obvious level of distrust with the DPRK space agency's technological prowess and a risk that the vehicle might malfunction and stray from the intended flight plath. Worse mishaps have happened to NASA, ROSCOSMOS, JAXA, etc. so one can't say with certainty that a launch poses no risk to neighboring countries.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

USNinJapan2, shooting it down is an act of war. The UN has not authorized an attack on the launch. Attacking it is playing into the hands of the hardliners in The Peoples Republic of Korea.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

USNinJapan2, shooting it down is an act of war

Is it?

After NKorea has been told thre reasons not to, launching the missle should be considered an act of war. No?

Who is drawing first blood?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The trajectory doesn't make much sense for a first attempt at an orbital launch. Most orbital launches would be to the east to use the additional velocity of the earth's rotatation to help achieve orbital velocity. A launch to the south is only useful in that it doesn't drop parts on land. Also, to check crops and such in NK only they would need a geostationary orbit, which is even farther out than a low earth orbit where you would be better able to see things. I'm sure NK could get the imaging from China or even several private companies. This launch is, at best, a complete waste of money that could have been spent feeding people. At worst it's a test of a missile system. Shooting it down isn't necessarily an act of war, it's more like a measured response to a provocative act - assuming it goes over Japan. But there's no point in giving the dear pudgy leader any more food aid or negotiations while his rediculous behaviour continues...

0 ( +1 / -1 )

YuriOta

Shooting down an unwanted vehicle in your airspace is not an act of war. Space vehicle launches all affect the territorial airspace of nations, but with their concent. In this case both South Korea and Japan have stated very clearly that the DPRK does NOT have permission to violate their airspace in conducting this launch. IF the rocket/missile strays from its intended path into ROK or Japanese airspace, particularly if it even hints at threatening a populated area, the South Korea and Japan would indeed be justified in shooting down the launched vehicle in their airspace if it mitigates risk to its citizens.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The sky is falling, the sky is falling....

An act of war? US, give it a rest will you? They have just as much "right" to do this as the US had when launching cruise missiles over Canada that everyone complained about. Canada didn't see it as an act of war. Perhaps you could relax and stop hoping that your job is safe? I am sure you're country will be invading Iran soon enough...

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

LOL. Why is Japan frothing at the mouth when South Korea nor US who both have more at stake with NK provocations are taking these "look at me" theatrics in stride??? BC it serves conservative, racist wing's political purposes.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

I see it like this. Your neighbor is not going to do everything you want them to do. They might play their guitar too loudly. They may even have a party on a holiday. They can also be everything you could possibly hope for, caring and considerate. The bottom line is this. It's their rocket launch. Every country has a right to develop.

I'm ignoring the politicians on this. If they shoot it down I'd rather lynch the Japanese politicians for upsetting the neighbors. Nobody's impressed by Japan's show of missile defense. The U.S sold Japan the system and even I know it's faulty.

It they shout it down it would be an act of war. Anybody in their right mind would respond militantly towards such aggression.

Kim Jong iL is gone. It's a new day and age. It's best to meet this young guy, KIm Jong Un, and shake his hand. Take a walk with him. Learn about how he would like to see his country grow. New types of homes, better infrastructure, water purification and safe clean energy alternatives. North Korea suffers through a harsh winter every year. I can understand why they would want to research where to develop in their land.

War is big business people. There are those in high places who would love to continue the cycle of hate cause it goes beyond paying the rent. It makes them filthy rich.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Melon, I think they're hoping we forget about the nuclear issues here - be it the water, the food, the power source - the tax hike, the incompetence of the government, the in fight... Look people! Look the other way! NK is the bad guy, not us! Funnily enough, for once the public isn't buying into it.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Canada didn't see it as an act of war.

I imagine it's because the US has an arrangment with Canada.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I always find it interesting how China doesn't get in line with the west to tell NK to smarten up because China would rather have that crazy neighbour NK between them and the "free world". Now what would be interesting to see would be China's position if this NK rocket flys over into China and causes havoc on Chinese soil. I wonder how China would deal with NK on that? As sad as it is to say and I hope no one is killed or injured on Chinese soil but I'd like to see that little error occur. Who knows where NK might be after that?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Kim Jong iL is gone. It's a new day and age. It's best to meet this young guy, KIm Jong Un, and shake his hand. Take a walk with him. Learn about how he would like to see his country grow. New types of homes, better infrastructure, water purification and safe clean energy alternatives. North Korea suffers through a harsh winter every year. I can understand why they would want to research where to develop in their land.

What about asking him what he's going to do to with those horrendous concentration camps in his country which enslave, torture and brualise hundreds of thousands?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I always find it interesting how China doesn't get in line with the west to tell NK to smarten up

Knowbetter, actually, China AND Russia have voiced thier concerns to NKorea about launching that missle.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

It's best to meet this young guy, KIm Jong Un, and shake his hand. Take a walk with him. Learn about how he would like to see his country grow. New types of homes, better infrastructure, water purification and safe clean energy alternatives. North Korea suffers through a harsh winter every year. I can understand why they would want to research where to develop in their land.

I agree with that NetNinja, But that fat pork chop hasn't tried to reach out to anybody to take this walk. Wasting money on missle launches when your country is starving doesn't show me he is too concerned with wear he wants his country to go, and grow.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

USNinJapan2, who is Nippon, Republic of Korea or United States to say what can go into Earth orbit? The question is how far up goes airspace? No limit is not the answer, National limits go out 12 miles, so it would be correct for the atmosphere. By the time the rocket is over Okinawa the payload will be getting ready to enter orbit. 70 plus miles over Japanese territory. If the 3 can shoot down this launch, China and Russia would be correct taking out American spy satellites. They really need to think of all of the repercussions of shooting down this launch. This might be the trigger that sets off the next Pacific war. The one Morgan Robertson wrote about all of those years ago. He wrote about sun bombs.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

They really need to think of all of the repercussions of shooting down this launch.

Yuri, point well taken. But however, if NKorea had played by the rules, there would be no problem with them launching a missle into space in the first place. NKorea, and that pork chop of a leader needs to think of the reprocussions if they launch this missle. They are adults, not children. If they want thier country to excel, then they need to stop with the children games.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

tmarie

They have just as much "right" to do this as the US had when launching cruise missiles over Canada that everyone complained about. Canada didn't see it as an act of war.

Who's everyone? And why would tthey have been complaining? We didn't launch missiles OVER Canada, we launched them INSIDE Canada, specifically at their military testing ranges. Again, you should really think before equating the US to the DPRK on global security issues. The US tested military hardware (cruise missiles) in Canadian because they were authorized to do so by the Canadian government under a joint training agreement that lasted from 1983 to 2003. There's little hope if you can't distinguish between this and the current situation with the DPRK

http://publications.gc.ca/Collection-R/LoPBdP/MR/mr114-e.htm

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Like in the case with Syria and Iran, China and Russia are giving these problematic countries legitimacy to do what they want, which is bad

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

If they are digging a "secret" tunnel, it is not a secret. If they are launching this thing and accumulating plutonium points while too many are starving, then NK is indeed the poorest country on the planet. It also does not have lights on at night. Not very impressive.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

YuriOtani: who is Nippon, Republic of Korea or United States to say what can go into Earth orbit? The question is how far up goes airspace?

Look, it's just a bad idea to launch a rocket over the airspace of countries that you currently have hostilities with. You don't need a lawyer to tell you that, it's just common sense.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Some of the readers do not seem to have understood the rules of engagement here.

If the rocket/missile goes off course and enters the airspace of another country, then that country has the right to shoot it down. Not before. Korea, Japan, Taiwan, the Philippines are operating a defensive posture only on this basis.

No-one is talking about taking the NK rocket out before that or at any stage on its declared trajectory, except for Gurukun in the first post. A good idea for some, maybe, but a no-starter on the world stage.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

US, you really should think about your country's issue with "Do as I say and not as I do" as it certainly isn't winning you any fans or friends. You should also think about the hypocrisy in all of this. Your country sends 'aid" to Israel who is known to have nuclear weapons and yet you turn around and tell NK they can't have them? Classic US BS. Keep going on that I (and others) don't know international issues but it actually appears that you don't get why the rest of us disagree with it all - because we do get it. You don't.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Communist North Korea says it will launch the satellite

North Korea is about as communist as the Pope is Hindu. The word is shoved in sideways by the press, and we are supposed to read it as "evil", which true communism most certainly isn't.

Look, it's just a bad idea to launch a rocket over the airspace of countries that you currently have hostilities with. You don't need a lawyer to tell you that, it's just common sense.

Maybe you should have paid for the lawyer? "Over" airspace is not a problem. Everybody does that. "Through" airspace without persmission would be a problem though. Will this rocket go through anyone else's airspace? Well, call that lawyer, because everyone is going to disagree on the definition of airspace.

But one thing is for certain: North Korea is doing everything it can to avoid other people's airspace. But of course, nobody appreciates it, because that would ruin the joy of having a pariah.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

North Korea is as mad as a sock full of frogs. They have no right to launch 'sattelites' in the name of technological advancement whilst they keep their population hungry and in the social stone age. That is, pure and simple, the height of irresponsible and callous leadership.

Kim Jong iL is gone. It's a new day and age. It's best to meet this young guy, KIm Jong Un, and shake his hand. Take a walk with him. Learn about how he would like to see his country grow. New types of homes, better infrastructure, water purification and safe clean energy alternatives. North Korea suffers through a harsh winter every year. I can understand why they would want to research where to develop in their land.

This kind of rose coloured flower power statement is a lovely sentiment, but whilst they spend their time, money and science on rocketships and military hardware, they aren't taking care of the things you have sited. To say they are launching a rocket to celebrate the birthday of Kim Il Sung is pathetic. We don't live in a fairy tale.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

tmarie

Keep going on that I (and others) don't know international issues but it actually appears that you don't get why the rest of us disagree with it all - because we do get it. You don't.

Okay, I'll bite. You keep saying that the 'rest of us' know better and feel that the DPRK is in the right on attempting to go ahead with this satellite launch/missile test and that the US, South Korea, Japan, and the UN (which too me represents the international community, but hey what do I know) are wrong for condemning it as a blatant violation of UN Security Council Resolution 1874. Then where is the public outrage against these governments and the UN on their stance against the DPRK? All I could find were these Chinese reactions from the net and even many of them recognize the DPRK's actions as detrimental even to China. Really, if so many are outraged by the application of the 'do as I say not as I do' policy as you call it in regards to the DPRK, then where is the public outcry? Why is it clearly just you and a few others decrying the international community's view that the actions being taken by the DPRK regime are harmful in so many ways both to regional stability and to their own citizens? Can you point to anyone (other than the DPRK regime, anonymous internet posters like you, and preferably someone with some expertise in global security and international relations) who is out there publicly making the case that the DPRK are right and that it's all of these other countries and the UN that are nuts? I couldn't but I'm hoping you can because your attempts at making this case have deteriorated to little more than anti-US rants and fallacious claims of hypocrisy which categorically ignore the soundness of logic that's inherent in the international community's demands on the DPRK regime.

http://globalvoicesonline.org/2012/03/29/china-netizens-reactions-to-north-korea-satellite-launch/

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Gurukun: "After NKorea has been told thre reasons not to, launching the missle should be considered an act of war. No?"

If it is indeed a missile, then yes. But they say it's a rocket and invited Japan, the US, and other nations to verify the fact, but the latter nations chose not to and simply continue to believe what they want to believe. Sending a drone in to sovereign territory to take out a rocket -- one that they cleverly said is in honour of Kim Jong Il, would indeed be an act of war.

If it flies over their air space then they may well have a right to intercept, but it's a slippery slope if they try. There's the risk of failure, first and foremost, and then on top of that the act of war thing. They should ONLY intercept if it appears that the rocket is failing at one of the stages and may hit land. But as has been said, this is all just for show. Japan gets to deploy some American made tech and show their 'might', but I doubt anything will come of it.

And for the record, if NK is indeed launching a missile and not a rocket, they are indeed breaking a lot of agreements and causing a lot of tension in the area. If it's a rocket with a satellite, as they claim and have offered to show, then they have every right to pursue a peaceful satellite program as anyone else.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

US, governments doesn't equal the public. Protecting government issues is often never of the same opinion as the public. Heck, why not take a look at the comments on this thread to see how the majority feel.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

tmarie I agree with you, in America being against the government is being "anti-American". So if you disagree with oh lets say foreign policy then you are treated as a foe. To the others about "flying through their airspace", if all goes as planned then it will not come close. Think their problem was the 3rd stage last time. Just like the 2 Russian launches that failed.

smithinjapan, America launches over Canada all of the time. When a launch happens from Vandenberg AFB, it crosses Canada and perhaps stages fall on the Canadian outback. If it is a missile test we will find out shortly but in any case America will starve people for their governments actions. Food should not be tied to arms and perhaps China and Russia will help see the food reaches the right people.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

I agree with you Yuri - a first for both of us? ;) Mind you, same here in Japan. If you comment on the government, you get labeled anti-Japanese. I don't know. If you complain to Canadians, Brits, Germans... about their government, they'll join in on the bashing!

And well said about the US launching over Canada. Canadian used to get up in arms about it - now it is just "normal" - how sad is that?

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

tmarie

Heck, why not take a look at the comments on this thread to see how the majority feel.

That's pretty funny. I count more posters here who have tried to talk some sense into you than those who echo your sentiments. Judging by the thumbs-downs on most of your posts on this topic I'd say your so-called 'majority' here doesn't agree with your views on this topic either.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The latest news is that NK is preparing a site for what SK is claiming will be an underground nuke test. I'm sure that NK hopes to extort more unconditional aid or something by doing this kind of stuff. If the missile doesn't go through Japanese airspace then it's probably best to just ignore the dear pudgy porkchop and let the fools wonder why nobody is going to listen to their tantrums any more.

If the missile does threaten Japan then shoot it down.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Oh think this is a test of the new Leader. They signed an agreement there would be no ballistic missile launches and not satellite launches. If this puts a satellite in orbit it is only so helpful as an ICBM test. While it tests the stages, it does not test the maneuver package, weapons release or reentry. Then finally how accurate it will be. As for the majority being against me, shrugs. The majority of Germans enthusiastically supported Hitler and the Nazi party but that did not mean they were correct.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Yuri, the re-entry is simple physics. That's how the Germans were able to hit London with V2s during WWII. No computer, just launch it in a certain direction with a certain amount of fuel and bang, job over. With a nuke accuracy is even less of an issue. Nope, NK will learn a lot from this launch and, if it's successful, they'll have a new toy for the new leader to play with.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

My respect to NK. I hope Hatoyama will be visit it.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

gelendestrasse, not in the same way. The V2's flew a lot lower and slower. To reach America it needs to renter at speed. Unlike the V2, staging is important. It has to shed the 3rd stage and distance itself. Then the difference between orbital launch and warhead. In a satellite launch the 3rd stage would insert it into the correct orbit. The satellite then maneuvers into the correct orbit. In a warhead the warhead and maneuver package separate and the package puts the warhead on the correct path. The package separates and the warhead renters the atmosphere at high speed. The warhead is now on a set path. At the correct time it will detonate, a little late it would go SPLAT. Early and there may be no damage to the target. It is not as easy as it sounds. The German V2's all of it went SPLAT and exploded. Nukes need to go off in the correct sequence.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

smithinjapan

If it is indeed a missile, then yes. But they say it's a rocket and invited Japan, the US, and other nations to verify the fact, but the latter nations chose not to and simply continue to believe what they want to believe.

If you read the article, the French Aeronautics expert who has seen it says it's civilian with military capabilities.

one that they cleverly said is in honour of Kim Jong Il, would indeed be an act of war.

No, they have said it's in honour of the 100th birthday of Kim Il Sung - Kim Jong Ill's Dad. And I don't consider that to be 'clever'. I'd say it's politically inept and artless.

If it flies over their air space then they may well have a right to intercept, but it's a slippery slope if they try. There's the risk of failure, first and foremost, and then on top of that the act of war thing.

NK is still officially at war with South Korea, have no official diplomatic relations with the US and often think a US invasion 'immenent'. They have no diplomatic relations with Japan. As recently as late 2010, NK attacked Yeonpyeong Island in South Korea and came close to triggering all-out war. On Feb 29, this year, they announced that they will suspend all missile tests and halt all nuclear tests, and yet 2 weeks later announced the launch of this military capable rocket. There are also reports on the BBC today that sattelite images of tunnel entrances in KN have experts suspecting that they are gearing up for nuclear tests. So, when you put all of this into context, create a big picture that isn't just a view of a single rocket launch, you can see why NK neighbors are perfectly entitled to be very unhappy with a military capable rocket flying close to, and possible over their territory. Would you let your enemies test military capable hardware over your airspace? I doubt it. And I really don't think any reasonable country in the world, given the history of the region, will consider it an act of war, if any of these countries shoot it down. NK might, but they are far from reasonable.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

That's pretty funny. I count more posters here who have tried to talk some sense into you than those who echo your sentiments. Judging by the thumbs-downs on most of your posts on this topic I'd say your so-called 'majority' here doesn't agree with your views on this topic either.

Comments by posters and thumbs down by trolls are not the same thing. I would have expected you to know that. The majority of posters are laughing at the hilarity of the Japanese freaking out and the hypocrisy of some countries. Shame you can't see it.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

The North Korean position is it is not a "missile test" but a civilian satellite launch.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

YuriOtani

Since the launch vehicle for the civilian satellite is a military ballistic missile that DPRK is prohibited to test and develop by the UN what's the difference? The reality is, this launch is simulatneously both a satellite launch AND a missile test. And how convenient for the DPRK. The responsible and mature thing for the DPRK regime to do is to resolve the sanction issues with the UN Security Council BEFORE continuing with any launches (civilian or military) and beligerently violating the restrictions placed upon them by the UN (not ROK, not Japan, not US but the United Nations).

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Until they change their minds, the next time the NK government asks for food assistance, they should be told to eat their missiles instead.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@USNinJapan2Apr. 11, 2012 - 10:45AM JST

You are not right. That is missile can not be used for attack. That is impossible. Japan lost money for PAC-3 and Aegis. So sad.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

BessonovYan

You are incorrect. The Unha series of rockets are derivatives of the Taepodong-2 ballistic missile. The civilianization of the military missile is minimal.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"USNinJapan2Apr. 12, 2012 - 09:44AM JST

The civilianization of the military missile is minimal.

What is your technical arguments that it can used as ballistic missile?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@USNinJapan2Apr. 12, 2012 - 09:44AM JST

My arguments that Unha is peaceful rocket:

Head of missile is very small - so can not carry some bomb. 2. Fuel is liquid - so rocket can not use for quickly start. That is means that missile is peaceful and can not be used as military ballistic missile.
-1 ( +0 / -1 )

My arguments that Unha is peaceful rocket:

It's not the type of rocket that is the real question, is it? It's the fact that they can use the information they gather from this "peaceful rocket" to make, or improve an "unpeaceful rocket."

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@GurukunApr. 13, 2012 - 07:11AM JST

It's not the type of rocket that is the real question, is it? It's the fact that they can use the information they gather from this "peaceful rocket" to make, or improve an "unpeaceful rocket."

So what that information?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

So what that information?

If we do it this way and it fails, then we can do it this way.

If we do it this way, and it works, we can try a bigger better way.

If that bigger better way works, lets see if we can hit a country.

Now that we can manuever and reach a country, lets put something in the war head.

Get the picture?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

BessonovYan

Simple. 1) A satellite is a MUCH larger payload than a nuclear warhead. Have you ever seen either one? Probably not. If you have you'd know just how small a missile warhead (nuclear or conventional) really is. Ever wonder why rockets designed to launch satellites often have a top section/final stage that bulges out from the stage below it? 2) DPRK's other military missiles (Nodong, Taepodong 1 and 2, etc.) are propelled by liquid fuel so you pointing out that the preferred fuel for a missile is solid fuel means absolutely nothing. All it shows is that (thankfully) the DPRK is still well behind in missile technology and also can't afford a solid propellant design. 3) You didn't have a third point, but given the fact that the DRPK is extremely poor, why on Earth would you think that they would spend any extra money to develop an entirely new launch vehicle for civilian purposes when it already has a robust ballistic missile development program that can be dual use? Which of course brings us right back to the fact that their 'satellite launch' is a violation of the UN Security Council resolutions which prohibit the DPRK from further developing and testing ballistic missiles. Sorry but you've got to be pretty damned obtuse to believe that the launch vehicle that crashed this morning was designed to put a satellite in orbit and that the satellite that was shown to international journalists earlier this week was a real working satellite.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@USNinJapan2Apr. 13, 2012 - 11:03PM JST

Size of satellite can be very different: from one kilogram to Mir station. 2. Am i right understand you that you agree with me that rocket with liquid fuel can not be used for attack? 3. All technology can be peaceful and military. For example - knife. Can you give list countries that can be attack by NK? I don't not no one.
0 ( +0 / -0 )

BessonovYan

1) You didn't see photos of the "satellite" they were trying to launch this week? It wasn't 1kg.

2) No absolutely I don't agree with you. Solid fuel is preferred and better suited for military application. Solid fuel boosters are more advanced and expensive than the older designs which used liquid propellants. Before solid fuel boosters were developed military missiles were all propelled by liquid fuel. The reason DPRK uses liquid fuel for all of their boosters is because their program is decades behind both in design and application, NOT because it is for civilian purposes. 3) The number of countries that are within range of the ballistic missiles currently in DPRK's arsenal is far too many to list. The darker circle is the range of Taepodong 1 and the lighter circle of Taepodong 2. http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/images/4/2011/11/xlarge_f35fc65b4f26cb1666fb2a299d1f7eff.jpg

0 ( +0 / -0 )

People saying it is one or the other are off the mark. The art of illusion and disguise has a long and venerable history in the East. Read the Chinese classics. In North Korea's position it makes perfect sense to have a dual application rocket/missile. As long as the opposition are confused and divided, they can forge ahead.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@USNinJapan2Apr. 14, 2012 - 09:31AM JST

Yes, also 100kg can not be like a-bomb or something bomb. Are you suppose that NK can use 100kg trotyl for such expensive rocket? That is unreal they not stupid.

First missile with solid fuel was R&D 500 years ago in Korea. It name as "Shin ge jeon". That is more early analog of Russian "Katusha" that used in WW2. Now NK can not find any target for her rocket. They can use own rocket only for technological progress. NK always would lose cosmodrom after first day of real war. Because NK can not R&D missile for attack of any countries. it can not be used in real war.

It unreal. NK is about 20 million people who can not attack China, Russia, USA and Japan too. This is real fact.
0 ( +0 / -0 )

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