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Norway suspect says he wanted European anti-Muslim crusade

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Cough

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Delusional nutter... "Norway suspect says he wanted European anti-Muslim crusade" yeah but sane people refuse to fall to ethnic/religion wars so cowards only resort to violence over rationality. That was completely unnecessary. Again, RIP to all the victims.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

From the killer's manifesto:

“I’m not going to pretend I’m a very religious person as that would be a lie.”

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

This nutter doesn't deserve to live, but live he will, off the Norweigian taxpayers.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Some people want to see a world divide, but many of see a world united. May the Lord bless the people of Norway.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

He is pissed at Muslim immigrants so he shoots native white children. Makes perfect sense...

On a side note the EU continues to criticize Japan on its tough immigration laws.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

It covers a great deal, he feel that Political Correctness has destroyed Norway, for instance. He is furious at Liberals and the fact that so many Somalis and Pakistanis have immigrated to Norway.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

From the killer's manifesto: “I’m not going to pretend I’m a very religious person as that would be a lie.”

Could you identify the blog you cut and pasted this from? Thanks.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

what he considered to be leftists’ “feelings of inferiority”—

Funny that. Funny how the people who need a gun to feel safe and always put violence on the table of solutions early can accuse others of having feelings of inferiority. Yeah, whatever.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Could you identify the blog you cut and pasted this from? Thanks

Do the search yourself. You're welcome.

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

The attacker picked targets linked to Norway’s left-wing Labor Party. Breivik’s manifesto pilloried the political correctness of liberals and warned that their work would end in the colonization of Europe by Muslims.

Gee, and there are people who want to claim the killings weren't political in nature -- and that liberals are just as violent towards their political opponents.

Since A. Coulter has "entertained" her right-wing audiences with such "humorous" tidbits as her lament that terrorists didn't target the New York Times building on 9/11, how soon will it be before she (or some other violence-loving right-wing firebrand) revels them with a routine using these killings? I am betting we won't have to wait very long.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

@chewitup

This is where I discovered it, also, gratuitous attack on Rupert Murdoch is unrelated and diminishes credibility

http://www.kevinislaughter.com/wp-content/uploads/2083+-+A+European+Declaration+of+Independence.pdf

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Could you identify the blog you cut and pasted this from?

It can be found on WorldNutDaily, for one. A favorite of "truth-twisters."

The manifesto claims Breivik considers himself to be "100-percent Christian," only one who decided to praise the Lord and get the ammunition.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

The guy is an attention whore. Don't give him his public hearing; stop talking about him; throw him in a cage for the rest of his life. Fail to do that and you may enjoy some copycats...

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

I have to give my teenage son credit for calling this one. I thought it was AQ or some other jihadist group. He cut me offin mid sentence and asked what I know about pan-european nativist groups. Apparently the shooter refers to Muslims as "wild animals" but says not to blame them but rather the "cultural marxists" who let them in. Looking though the eyes of the shooter, his choice of target makes perfect sense. Kill up and coming young cultural marxists at a left leaning youth camp and hopefully scare other white youth away from the multiculturalist cause. Straight out of the AQ Mesopotamia playbook. Join us or die. And he is looking at a whopping 21 years in a norweigan prison...not exactly Rikers Island, and will get out with time to spend his sunset years living free as a hero to the movement he hopes to energize.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

insane and utter nutter, hope he will be punished hard, but since 23 years is the maximum sentence in Norway (or so I heard) he is gonna get off too easy either way :(

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

The 'people ' of a peaceful country who used to award 'peacemakers' at the end of every year was the most unpeaceful and bloody one on earth! When will the committe of Nobel in Norway every learn before they lecturing the world?

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

CNN had a great article talking about the rise of right wing extremism all across Europe. This is a frightening prospect.

I have never understood how one race can decide that all other races and belief systems are inferior to theirs. More so I have never been able see how these people then turn that to violence. Often against their own countrymen and women.

We have to become aware of this kind of hatred, the groups that foster it and the political leaders that encourage it. And we must work hard to assure that they never gain enough power to turn their policies to action.

Sadly there is little we can do to prevent events like Norway as there will always be some evil soul willing to take the lives of others.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@yabits why is it that liberals are nearly frothing at the mouth hoping any tragedy is somehow linked with conservatives? It's sickening. I get it you don't like Ann Coulter but if you believe she honestly is out to incite violence then you are either a fool or delusional. The left has it's fair share of people who have a penchant for violence. Weather Underground? How about the film "To Kill A President" which depicted a sitting U.S. presidents assassination? How about Ron Bloom who was a senior official in the Obama administration saying "We kind of agree with Mao that political power comes largely from the barrel of a gun. " Oh the violent rhetoric....the horror!!!! Clear rational thinkers unlike yourself can differentiate between speech and action. If a reader of Ann Coulter went on a shooting spree that shooter owns their crime. How about the increasingly common street protests in cities all over America 8especially San Francisco) where people who are most definitely not conservative are chanting "Kill The Police, Death To Pigs" in the street? How about Montell Williams on Air America urging Michelle Bachmann to stab herself?

How about members of ELF and ALF who most certainly are members of the far left. Would it be fair for me to lump you in with them?

This below is copied and pasted but I feel sums this up perfectly:

"When it comes to liberals here is how they see things, let’s break it down: If they’re devout Muslims and are connected to terrorists, then they must have killed for some reason OTHER than their religion. If they’re conservative murderers, then they must have killed because of Glenn Beck, talk radio, the Tea Party movement, or whoever the hot conservative villain of the moment is. Now if they happen to be liberal, well then, at best the killer in question must be some random wacko who should immediately be forgotten. At worst, liberals try to paint leftward leaning killers as conservatives. "

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

When will the committe of Nobel in Norway every learn before they lecturing the world?

Was there ever any suggestion of Breivik coming anywhere near being awarded the Nobel Prize for Peace? No. So what exactly is it you want the 'committe of Nobel' to learn? That there are nutters in any society? I think they already know that, I think it's why they try to honour those who appear to be trying to do something about it. They don't always get it right, but I don't see how one lone nutter somehow makes a country 'the most unpeaceful and bloody one on earth' or negates the meaning and message of the Nobel Prize for Peace.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Readers, please focus your comments on what is in the story. References to Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck and the Obama administration are not relevant to this discussion.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@tkoind2 This Norwegian man was against Islam and multiculturalism. From what I have read it had nothing to do with race but an ideology. The man is clearly a deeply disturbed individual but many Norwegians and Swedes feel the same. Their country is being infiltrated and destroyed by people who don't share the same values as they do. A Norwegian news story came out not too long ago about rapes in Norway and 100% were perpetrated by non native Norwegians. Recently a Somali raped a Norwegian on the steps of Parliament and walked free. You see that and your country being transformed, women are being raped, Muslims protesting in the streets and people who actually care start to feel hopeless. Some act out in crazy ways like this guy. I can't say I agree with this guy at all. But I certainly understand it.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

The guy is an attention whore. Don't give him his public hearing; stop talking about him; throw him in a cage for the rest of his life.

No. Let him talk and keep talking about him. He represents something that has logically grown out of ultra-conservative, right-wing ideology -- something I knew with 100% certainty would resurrect itself in due time. Pretending it is anything less than that is exactly what those building their movements against liberalism and open, just societies want people to think.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Quote: "Lippestad said his client has asked for an open court hearing because he wants to explain himself."

I expect he' ll ask for an open prison with a sauna and fishing lake too.

Just hope he can live without those steroids. Reminds me of that Raoul Moat bouncer thug in Britain who took steroids and felt justified in killing people.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

This mans actions will not change the peacfull policies of Norway. Luckily thye are an adult society. There will be no new laws restricting freedoms for "security reasons". It is a one off, whatever the mans beliefs he ahd problems. Whether he was a Nazi lover or not doesn't mean much.

We can look at this man and learn from him, learn how he turned into a spree killer. Spree killers are usually loners who have problems forming relationships and have low paid jobs or are unemployed. This man was successfull and had social abbilities which are unusual for this type of crime. He must be tried and punished and while in prison we can learn so much from his mind and at the same time help him become a decent member of society.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

We have to become aware of this kind of hatred, the groups that foster it and the political leaders that encourage it. And we must work hard to assure that they never gain enough power to turn their policies to action.

My thumbs up to your comment, tkoind2. I am adding a famous quote done by paster Martin Niemoller.

First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@yabits please inform us of what a ultra-liberal with a left wing ideology looks like. I am just curious. I love how modern day liberals have completely hijacked the term liberal and completely changed it's very meaning. Can we go back to calling you progressives now?

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

why is it that liberals are nearly frothing at the mouth hoping any tragedy is somehow linked with conservatives?

Liberals aren't "frothing at the mouth," or anywhere near to it. I never had to "hope" that a tragedy would be linked to those who have taken their conservatism to extremes -- I simply was as sure it would happen as sure as I am of anything in this world. Because it already has been happening all over, but the right wing keeps wanting to dismiss the acts as those of isolated individuals that have nothing to do with ideology.

I get it you don't like Ann Coulter but if you believe she honestly is out to incite violence then you are either a fool or delusional.

If you believe that no person could ever respond to her charge that liberals are "demonic" and out to destroy a nation with thoughts of "doing something about it," I genuinely pity you.

If a reader of Ann Coulter went on a shooting spree that shooter owns their crime...How about Montell Williams on Air America urging Michelle Bachmann to stab herself?

Those who incite and inspire violence smile at such naivete. What Williams may have said against an individual -- which I have not seen in any context -- is vastly different than classifying a whole category of people as "demonic" and out to destroy a country.

How about members of ELF and ALF who most certainly are members of the far left. Would it be fair for me to lump you in with them?

I am a liberal. I reject and condemn all forms of extremism and violence, according to the dictates of my conscience.

If they’re conservative murderers, then they must have killed because of Glenn Beck, talk radio, the Tea Party movement

If they're conservative murderers who have deliberately slaughtered dozens of young people because of their liberal political affiliation -- and planned the attack for years, telling you they are killing people because they are liberals -- I tend to take them at their word. Only an extremely weak-minded person would attempt to bring up a counter-reference to someone playing off a remark that a US representative made when she suggested cutting her own wrists as some kind of moral equivalence.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

I will answer to your question above, warallthetime. Why we are liberal? The following quote pretty much summed it up. I am proud to be a Liberal.

"If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal", then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal." — John F. Kennedy (Profiles in Courage)

1 ( +4 / -3 )

please inform us of what a ultra-liberal with a left wing ideology looks like. I am just curious. I love how modern day liberals have completely hijacked the term liberal and completely changed it's very meaning.

Liberals look a lot like the people who work in the offices of the building that Breivik blew up, and the parents of the young people he took aim at.

Yes, the nerve of those evil liberals "hijacking" terms. Perhaps someone should lead a crusade against them. Funny, but "war-all-the-time" sounds a lot like a term chosen by someone who really digs violence.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

This is not a battle between right or left, The mans views are a product of the sickness of his mind. We must not let his views become a red herring and focus mostky on them His problems must be anylaysed so we help oursleves by learning from him and also providing him with suitable treatments and regimes to make him better. hose who he attacked show his mind was deranged and would have been for some time.

The main focus should not be on Nazi groups, though of course they should be looked at, but this poor mans mind, to learn from him to prevent further tragedies and to reform him.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Luckily thye are an adult society

I do not understand this English. Is it the Queens?

If he wanted an Anti-Muslim Crusade, then he wants what America under Bush wanted, and what most Americans want.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

You see that and your country being transformed, women are being raped, Muslims protesting in the streets and people who actually care start to feel hopeless. Some act out in crazy ways like this guy. I can't say I agree with this guy at all. But I certainly understand it.

Gee, WARallTHEtime, I think we're getting somewhere.

A cross-section of European society would find a large percentage not agreeing with or understanding this extreme right-wing behavior at all. A smaller section would understand/sympathize with him, but not to the point of agreeing with his actions. And a smaller section yet would sympathize and agree.

It only takes the right kind of influencers to move people from the second section to the third. Few symbols work as effectively as the image of white women being raped by men of color. Yes, some people do have screws loose. It could explain why they're in the second section to begin with.

This is precisely why those whose politics cause them to feel "understanding" for the motivations that drive a person to acts like this have a tremendous responsibility to reject violence. But this the right-wing can not do.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

warallthetime=war-all-the-time, humm........

1 ( +3 / -2 )

何が?

Can this man be truly analyzed and be put back into society as a productive person?

92 years later maybe.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

This is not a battle between right or left, The mans views are a product of the sickness of his mind.

In my view, there are a lot of people who have mental sickness. Politically speaking, the pendulum can swing both ways, but people who are paranoid are naturally going to gravitate to the side which promises them better personal and national "security." For the past few decades, the right side has been most successful by far in attracting the support of folks with that mental imbalance.

Since I embrace non-violence, I naturally align myself with the side that I see is most supportive of that value. More importantly, I would have the responsibility to uphold my values were I to witness people on my side suggesting or endorsing violence. Since few if any right-wingers reject violence in that way, it is natural for them to deny and shirk all responsibility in this regard. Thus, the stage for violence acted out is now set.

warallthetime asserted that someone who read the writings of someone who inspired him to take a gun and start killing people would be solely responsible for his actions. This is a bit like saying "I will fight for your right to obtain lethal firepower right up to the point where you start killing innocent people -- then it's all your fault."

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Seems some Breivik admirer(s) is(are) lowering everyone.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

greatlegs

If he wanted an Anti-Muslim Crusade, then he wants what America under Bush wanted, and what most Americans want.

What a breathtakingly ignorant thing to post.

Who ended the Serb massacre of Muslims in Kosovo while Europe sat wringing its hands ? It wasn't Norway.

Who made it possible for the predominantly Muslim Kurds to finally get the homeland promised to them decades ago? Hint - it wasn't the European powers who drew up treaties promising this and then reneged.

Can you explain how America - a nation of 300 million - can have its collective mindset changed by a single man, the president? Are you seriously going to tell me that the same country which,under Clinton, rescued Muslims in Kosovo from ethnic cleansing and intervened on the behalf of Muslims in Somalia, suddenly changed when Bush , not exactly known for his eloquence and powers of persuasion, got elected? Bush convinced the country that we needed a 'crusade'? LOL. The last one - all of them European in origin let's not forget - ended hundreds of years before America had even come into existence.

Europeans and people like you will prattle about how a massacre like this 'is something we'd expect to see in America' , and yet remain oblivious to the fact that Muslims are far, far better integrated in the US than they are in Europe.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

People are labeling this lone wolf terrorist both "far-right" and a "neo-nazi". First off nazism is far left or better yet "progressivism" as it is based on national socialist policies. So it would be an oxymoron to label the man far right and a neo-nazi.

Also, attacks like these are only going to continue. It should not be hard to believe but unfortunately most things that happen in northern Scandinavia stays there. That means most people outside that region of the world are unaware of whats going on their. It's gotten to the point where mosques are being torched and burned down. And even muslims gang raping non-muslims and not being held accountable by law under the excuse of "tolerance". Given the social and political atmosphere of these countries, there is certainly no will to combat these problems. The average norwegian/swede/finland, just buries their head under the hand pretending their is no problem or wishing for it to go away.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

including his steroid use and an intention to solicit prostitutes in the days before the attack.

Proof postive this man's brains are completely deranged. Death worshiping scum.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@benji31 People will now slam you without making any real valid arguments to the points you laid out. I wholeheartedly disagree with what this man did but it doesn't matter to progressives. He could have went the route of Geert Wilders and bring about peaceful change using the political system and he still would be called a violent hate monger. I enjoy living in Japan and I do my best to assimilate to life here. If I were to start raping Japanese women on the steps of their government buildings I suspect they wouldn't turn a blind eye and rightfully so. They aren't yet blinded by progressives and multicultural nonsense.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Not surprised to see the killer was a steroid user. Should the law come down on his supplier(s)? Sounds frighteningly easy to get such drugs.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

any kind of "anti crusade" is just gonna cause more Hate & tention. thats what extremists want a reason to retaliate & Hate against others. Most normal smart people don't fall for this. unforce their own laws & restict imigration, any one in Europe or America who is gonna live by the laws & respect the country should be welcomed. it makes NO sense to move to a country & want to impose your own way of life or laws. its a matter of mutual respect. what Americans want is people who come here to respect our way of Life laws & the flag, you can be any religion you want just don't bad mouth the couth & preach hate anyone who does ins't gonna be welcomed in any country.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I am betting nobody on here citing his steroid use even bothered to read or at the very least skim the manifesto the quote was lifted from. Again because progressives love any chance to try and pin you as a violent person I must say again I completely disagree with this mans actions. With that said this man was quite methodical in his actions with everything down to the last detail planned out precisely. He was no fool. The part about steroids makes perfect sense when he was taking a regimen of vitamins and steroids to prepare for battle. Agree or disagree with what he set out to do...he was super prepared and quite intelligent.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

yabits:

No. Let him talk and keep talking about him.

I agree. Let everyone see that this nutjob is all over the place, ideologically. And then compare their findings with that of the mainstream media in Europe and the US.

My latest search on they guy turned up this from his bizarro world manifesto:

Q: What should be our civilisational objectives, how do you envision a perfect Europe?

A: "Logic" and rationalist thought (a certain degree of national Darwinism) should be the fundament of our societies... We should strive to become a civilisation where the individual's acquisition of wealth would no longer be the driving force in our lives...

from the Herald Sun (Australia)

Andrew Bolt

Monday, July 25, 2011 at 07:02am

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Agree or disagree with what he set out to do...he was super prepared and quite intelligent.

Depends on your definition of "intelligent".I'd sugest that the indiscrininate massacre of almost a hundred people isn't a very intelligent response to the fact that your society is changing in ways you don't approve of.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

how do you envision a perfect Europe?

Get rid of the EU

1 ( +4 / -3 )

@lucabrasi It is understandable that people would naturally think murdering 93 people would be considered less than intelligent. However the fact that he successfully planned for two years and executed it would show he is not unintelligent. A man can do very foolish things and still be considered intelligent. He set up a Geo Farm obtained 6 tons of fertilizer and taught himself how to make super powerful explosives. Your average idiot would certainly not be up to such a task.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

He might be intelligent to a degree, But he is definitely evil.

But if he were more intelligent that he is, one might think he would have realized his evil ideas were not logically sound nor helpful to his own stated goals. Thus, he is not as intelligent as all that, which might be a byproduct of being a little crazy as well as evil.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Seems to me he used his intelligence (which, as warallthetime points out, is considerable) in an unintelligent way.. .Still, either way the result was horrific. RIP everyone....

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

chewitup; Man may commit evil acts but they are not mad. Intelligence is even more dangerous when the perosn is intelligent as they can plan well. While most of us have waishes to do well and provide for our families this man wanted something far more sinister. This wish becomes a desire and then an obsession, reality is blocked out as well as empathy for others, this why spree killer scan act this way. The most unusual part of this is he fcat he did not commit suicide. Normally we cannot study spree killers as they are dead but there will be usefull info gathered from this man that may help prevent further incidents. As i said before the Muslim and Nazi thing is a red herring into why he is a killer, he may as well have hated homosexuals or women.

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

Agree or disagree with what he set out to do...he was super prepared and quite intelligent.

Maybe he was just super northern European.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_Häyhä

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

People do this because they want an audience. He can write what he wants and join groups and present his point of view to a handful of people, but if he kills 100 people it's guaranteed that his message will get worldwide attention. He prepared his manifesto then carried out the final part of the plan. To us it's murder, to him it's distribution.

Maybe we should be looking at ways to recognize these kinds of events and do our best to not give these people the platform they desire. I can't say I know how to do that but anything to minimize their chances for success would help. Maybe that's just wishful thinking.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

SuperLib: "Maybe we should be looking at ways to recognize these kinds of events and do our best to not give these people the platform they desire."

I agree with you, brother, but sadly as you touch on after it's all hindsight. There's little or no way to predict this kind of thing, especially when people are looking in the wrong direction half the time. I just hope it never happens again, but again, sadly, since it's a form of 'distribution' as you mentioned it probably will.

People like this guy claim to be fighting for a cause, but what cause is that besides utter BS? It amazes me how some people cannot look at their fellow human beings and animals and not realize that we all have the precious gift of life and nothing besides. I have no doubt he'll realize it when he is in prison, and realizes not only did he not attain the 'martyrdom' he sought, but only made his 'cause' all the weaker.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Religion - I wish we could split the world into 2 separate zones.

Zone 1 - for those that believe in religion Zone 2 - for critical independent thinkers - i.e. fellow atheists

I am 100% sure Zone 2 would be less violent and much more peaceful and productive.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@tokyokawasaki

How about three zones? One for the nutters, one for the aetheists and one for folk like me: believers, but aware that their are other religions and aetheists out there, who deserve to have their opinions treated with respect and tolerance :) That would be nice.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

tokyokawasaki: "Zone 1 - for those that believe in religion Zone 2 - for critical independent thinkers - i.e. fellow atheists"

And what do you think would eventually happen? WAR. It would be exactly as it is now. The thing to do is not separate and/or segregate, but to try and co-exist.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

tokyokawasaki: "Zone 1 - for those that believe in religion Zone 2 - for critical independent thinkers - i.e. fellow atheists"

I think zone 2 would have no war. It seems that religion is the basis of all wars.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Gurukun: "I think zone 2 would have no war. It seems that religion is the basis of all wars."

Umm... no. It has been and still is the reason for SOME, but not all. The other is resources. Who started the war on terror, for example? GWB declared war on Afghanistan after the terrorist bombings of 9/11, but not on the nations that housed Bin Laden and his family. While it's true that GWB is a deeply religious man, he did not do so based on religion.

Future wars will be fought over resources such as fresh water and oil. Look at Asian relations and the bombast between the nations when it comes to claims over a few rocks in the sea (but that have potential gold mines in terms of oil or 'rare-earth' resources).

Regardless, zone 2 WOULD have war -- with zone 1. It would be inevitable if they refused to integrate.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

smith, I see your point, however, if we are talking about 9/11, the basis of that war is religion. Even though the extremist do not represent the real Muslim religion, the fact is that Osama BL and his muslim followers did not approve of the US supporting Isreal because of? Religion. I did not say every war started because of religion, but rather, is a basis of all war. If you dig a few layers deeper into the history of any war, you'll find that religion sticks it's head out out in all occasions.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Tkoind2: We have to become aware of this kind of hatred, the groups that foster it and the political leaders that encourage it. And we must work hard to assure that they never gain enough power to turn their policies to action.

Since this guy said he killed as a response to multiculturalism, would you say that it was the root cause?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Christ, after seeing the photo at the top of the article, it looks like he had prints ready for the media to distribute.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Gurukun: "smith, I see your point, however, if we are talking about 9/11, the basis of that war is religion."

You said all war, not 9/11, didn't you? What's more, even if you push aside the religion factor all you are talking about is differences. Do you ever get in an argument with your partner? why? because you have a difference of opinion. Now, multiply that exponentially and give people weapons -- you get war. Be it a disagreement at a birthday party, a grab for oil, a thirst for water, or a few rocks in the sea; war comes down simply to disagreement and is not limited to religion. Or do you honestly think that a world full of atheists would be at peace? (even though your argument was that if HALF the world were athiests and other other half religious once side would have peace)

This man was insane, and that's all there is to it. He has proven bottom line that religion really doesn't have anything to do with the decision to kill others. He did it completely of his own volition -- no external locus of control told him to.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Gurukun: I meant to add, if you honestly believe that the wars that came about from 9/11 are completely based on religion, it means that you think it is a Christian crusade, much like this Norwegian man hoped for. Or do you think GWB was not religious? You either agree with my point that it was not based on religion, or you agree that it is a crusade.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Back on topic please.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Listen to all the BS and arguments this subject always brings up - I dream of living in a society (zone) free of all religion. If everyone spent (collectively) the same amount of time trying to advance our species as is spent collectively on religion, just think of the progress we could have made by now.... It's depressing isn't it. Why do so many prefer to live by a code/system that belongs in the middle ages.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Looks like the American disease of targeting liberals, guns and religious hatred is spreading to other nations. This guys ramblings are unfortunately not unfamiliar to this board or to recent US events, like in Arizona. Right wing conservatism and overblown rhetoric helps to create these events and leads to kids in this case being shot with dum-dum bullets for maximum damage.

Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Looks like the American disease of targeting liberals, guns and religious hatred is spreading to other nations.

Actually, Breivik's form of extreme conservatism is something that has existed in Europe for centuries. Liberals and cultural "marxists" are just the latest scapegoats. There is little doubt that the strain has flourished in the United States for decades.

Right wing conservatism and overblown rhetoric helps to create these events

Well, he certainly wanted to take his country back from the liberals, exercising what one American conservative referred to as "second-amendment options."

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan etc IS a crusade. Maybe he needs to watch more tv, he is left behind by about 10 years.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Anders Behring Breivik, detained in the deadly Oslo bombing and shooting that has left 92 dead, has links to Norway's anti-government political group the Progress Party, according to the LA Times:

On social media forums, he claimed to be a disgruntled former member of Norway's anti-tax, small-government Progress Party, according to the Norwegian Nettavisen news service. His postings reflected strong anti-Islamic views and a deep skepticism about the mixing of different international cultures.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

zurcronium

Looks like the American disease of targeting liberals, guns and religious hatred is spreading to other nations.

Except that 'liberal' in Europe means those who want to reduce the laws and regulations and the reach of the state.

As for the rest of your sentence I see little wrong in targeting religious hatred.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

yeah every country has their racists.

to bad he`s a right wing conservative

It`s usually conservative people who commit mass killings.

Hitler, and etc.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

He`s new version of Hitler.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

"throw him in a cage for the rest of his life"

Does he have to be fed?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

It`s usually conservative people who commit mass killings.

Hitler, and etc.

Nazism = Nationalist socialist part. Which is far left or statist. But anyways most of the commentators here blaming religion as the root of all wars especially the egalitarian no religion peaceful world atheist spout the same nonsense over and over without even questioning the validity of such an outrageous claim. All wars are fought over land, resources and expanding hegemony. In some of these third world countries where there is civil strife is not because of religion but because of a lack of acknowledgement private property rights. Nor can religion be blamed for most of humanities killings. If we go by the power law redistribution, then we understand that more people are killed after each successive major war. For example the 20th century saw the deaths of over 100 million under atheist regimes. Much more so then previous centuries where deaths numbered in the hundreds, followed by thousands and followed by the tens of thousands.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

It`s usually conservative people who commit mass killings.

actually you know it is control and power freaks who kill their fellow humans. some of them are on the right. But 100 million were killed in the last century by communists / socialists, like the National socialists in Germany , the maoists in red China and the Stalinists in Soviet Russia.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Nazism = Nationalist socialist part. Which is far left or statist.

I've noticed that right-wingers on these boards often point out the "socialist" part of the official name of Germany's former right-wing party -- as though it were somehow true that because they appropriated that term it means they were on the left. Just because North Korea has "democratic" and "republic" in its official name doesn't make it so. It's all part of the Big Lie that so many apparently want to pass off as true.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Right wing nut job, left wing nut job. The only thing consistant here is "nut job." Anybody who thinks that terrorism is a means to an end really hasn't studied history and is pretty much a nut job. I doubt this guy has improved the position of his "cause" one iota. Hopefully he's set it back. Extremeism in any guise is to be avoided.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

actually you know it is control and power freaks who kill their fellow humans. some of them are on the right. But 100 million were killed in the last century by communists / socialists, like the National socialists in Germany , the maoists in red China and the Stalinists in Soviet Russia.

I appreciate you pointing this out. More than a few readers are apt to glaze over the 100+ million who have been killed under the left-wing banner in their seemingly gleeful rush to denounce right-wingers, such as myself, tarring us as violent, ignorant racists.

Kill 100 people for an ideal and you're an insane madman. Kill 100 million people for an ideal and you're the leader of a Glorious Revolution.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

well actually if you include the liberal/progressive idealogy of abortifacents-contraception, sterilization and abortion-the numbers killed by liberals/progressives, including Christians and Muslims, is staggering. And could possibly make this guy look rather light-handed. Athiests may have the choice of abortifacents, but both these religions stated have suffered liberal/progressive indoctrination/propaganda, and both are guilty of killing.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

yabits:

I've noticed that right-wingers on these boards often point out the "socialist" part of the official name of Germany's former right-wing party -- as though it were somehow true that because they appropriated that term it means they were on the left.

Central tenet from the official Nazi Party platform, in effect through the war:

"COMMON GOOD BEFORE INDIVIDUAL GOOD"

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Well, I'm not going to waste my time going through Brieviks rambling manifesto. Even if he's not mentally ill (which I think he's quite sane, just tossed his morality out the window thinking it would prove his so-called "point), he's made himself quite the infamous evil villian and Norway will not be inspired to have some muslim genocidal crusade. They will hopefully learn how to better protect themselves from such situations as what he's created, and become more efficient in dealing with terrorists attacks like his.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

There is speculation that the killer will be sent to the newest prison in Norway . Here is the Wikipedia descrition:

"Cells include amenities such as flat-screen televisions, refrigerators, unbarred vertical windows that let in more light, and designer furniture. Prisoners share kitchens and living rooms every 10-12 cells, jogging trails, and a sound studio. There are cooking and music classes offered. Half the guards are women and guards are typically unarmed because guns "[create] unnecessary intimidation and social distance". Prisoners receive questionnaires that ask how their prison experience can be improved."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halden_Prison

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

tokind2:

" CNN had a great article talking about the rise of right wing extremism all across Europe. This is a frightening prospect. I have never understood how one race can decide that all other races and belief "

Oh, so they are already beating the "racist" drum?

But islam is not a race, and in fact some of the most virulent islamists in Europe are native converts. Blond, blue-eyed and all that. Did CNN even mention that?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

whiskeysour:

" yeah every country has their racists. to bad hes a right wing conservative Its usually conservative people who commit mass killings. Hitler, and etc "

Fact: Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung, Stalin, and Kim Il Sung have racked up more deaths than Hitler, all in the name of leftist ideology.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

CruzControl:

" He is pissed at Muslim immigrants so he shoots native white children. Makes perfect sense... "

If you read up on his thinking, yes it does make perfect sense. And what does "white" have to do with anything? His beef is with an ideology, not with a skin colour.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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