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NRA exec suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

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'A National Rifle Association executive in Texas has come under fire for suggesting that a South Carolina lawmaker and pastor slain with eight members of his congregation bears some of the blame for his opposition to permitting concealed handguns in church.'

Yep. These crackpots never fail to disappoint. Join the arms race or get what's coming to you. Sick people.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Yup, more guns must be the answer.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

A South Carolina lawmaker and pastor slain with eight members of his congregation bears some of the blame for his opposition to permitting concealed handguns in church

The person carrying the concealed handgun was the one who murdered nine people.

If we look at mass shootings that occur, most happen in gun-free zones

If the zones were really gun-free the mass shootings would not happen, would they? It's gun owners who are violating the gun-free zones and gun owners who are carrying out mass murders. The problem is 100% caused by gun owners.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

These guys live in a world of fear and paranoia, the likes of which I'm just not able to relate to. I hear some of the statements that they make and it just feels like they are from outer space. I'm betting this guy is simply unable to function outside of his house without a deadly weapon near his hand at all times.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Seriously, how stupid does stupid get?

10 ( +12 / -2 )

Right. With that logic, the Fort Hood shooting, the Washington Navy Yard shooting, or any other of the dozens that have happened on American military installations over the last decade could not have happened. (I know that many servicemen are restricted from carrying weapons on these bases - but many are not, including a large number of MPs.) http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/A-History-of-Shootings-at-Military-Installations-in-the-US-223933651.html

What would also jives with that logic is that Americans be allowed to carry weapons in the House and Senate members buildings. Of course, they are not. Perhaps those represented in Congress by pro-gun types should press them on this matter.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Cotton was really, really, really stupid. He exposed what the NRA really is. Trash.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

What else would you expect from a gun-nutter exec ?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

What would also jives with that logic is that Americans be allowed to carry weapons in the House and Senate member buildings. Of course, they are not. Perhaps those represented in Congress by pro-gun types should press them on this matter.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/22/politics/congressmen-ar-15-rifle-gun-capitol-hill/

Members of Congress can and do bring guns to their offices. (even though DC has a "gun ban"). Nancy Pelosi is probably the best example now.

Classic Picture of Sen Feinstein "on the trigger" -once was a concealed carry permit holder also. http://www.keepandbeararms.com/images/difi2.jpg

1 ( +1 / -0 )

if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church

I'm sure Jesus would have carried a handgun to church. Goes hand in hand with turning the other cheek.

Is this what Americans really want? NO!

1 ( +3 / -2 )

'I'm sure Jesus would have carried a handgun to church. Goes hand in hand with turning the other cheek.'

Since when has this type of gun-toting, war-loving Christian cared about what Jesus said?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Here in Japan we don't have to take guns when we go to shrines and temples thanks to our rational gun control laws.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I don't even understand the NRA's position of arming everyone. It really makes no sense to me.

The store you are in gets robbed so you pull your gun in self defense. The person outside sees you through the window and thinks you're about to shoot someone, so they pull out their gun because they don't understand what's going on. The guy in the parked car next to him can't see in the store, he just sees the guy looking though the window with a gun so he pulls out his gun. A guy pulling into the parking lot sees two guys with guns outside of the store, so he gets his gun out.

It's just so silly to think that you could have a room with armed people and think it's going to play out in a way where lives are saved overall. Everyone has to be perfect and all on the same page at the same time.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

in the uk we have to go through police check before they consider you for a firearms licence, there also has to be other criteria you must conform to, IE are you a member of a rifle/shooting club, also your doctor is consulted about your state of mind/health. your guns are locked away in a strong storage cabinet, owning a rifle is not that simple here in the UK, although its in our constitution to bare arms, here we are not allowed to carry them in the street or on our person, most pistols are not allowed, nor automatic rifles, the laws are stricked and rightly so! so why can't america tighten up on there gun laws? its because the NRA runs the country its very powerful, until the laws are tightened up get us to mass shootings! and there is now way we could buy one for a child for his birthday. quote:One person is killed by a firearm every 17 minutes, 87 people are killed during an average day, and 609 are killed every week. (source: CDC) http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/16/16547690-just-the-facts-gun-violence-in-america?lite and this is OK??

0 ( +0 / -0 )

21 year-old Dylann Roof was charged with felony possession in February, 2015:

According to South Carolina court documents, Roof was arrested in Lexington County on felony charges of possession of cocaine, methamphetamine and LSD on February 28, 2015.

This alone disqualified him from legal carry and purchase of a firearm. In South Carolina, you only have to be charged with a felony to lose your 2nd Amendment right. Roof would have failed a background check to purchase a firearm. It was earlier reported that his father purchased him a handgun for his 21st birthday(that would likely qualify as a Straw Man purchase) . Roof's birthday is listed as April 4, 1994. His 21st birthday was this past April. Two months after he's charged with a felony his father buys him a gun? This means if his father purchased a gun for his birthday it was a straw purchase, a felony, punishable by up to 10 years in jail and a $250,000 fine. 

In order for laws to work, criminals (in this case, both father and son) must follow them. 

Exit question: Was this the firearm used in the massacre? 

*Jim Hoft reports that the firearm used in the massacre was stolen from his mother. Same gun? Her gun? Either way, he stole a firearm, another felony charge. 

**ALSO: CNN reports that the family changed their story and claims that Roof was given birthday money to purchase a gun and they "don't know what he did with [the money]."

Bottom line: He was ineligible to carry in any case and the truth will out in this. Three things to consider, however:

1) If Roof, who was ineligible due to the pending felony charges (remember, charges only for ineligibility in SC) purchased a firearm through a storefront, that store will likely face charges and lose their FFL. It's a violation of federal law to make an illegal sale such as this. 

2) If such a sale was allowed to go through and his 4473 wasn't flagged, who in the state did not note this on his record? What is the point of having a law that a felony charge renders someone ineligible to excercise 2A if nothing is noted on the record to prevent a background check from going through? What is the point of laws if the state refusese or fails to enforce them? 

3) The family could be lying to avoid an investigation into a felony straw man purchase. 

Indeed, the truth will out. 

4 ( +4 / -0 )

It's just so silly to think that you could have a room with armed people and think it's going to play out in a way where lives are saved overall. Everyone has to be perfect and all on the same page at the same time.

I get the point that two or more wrongs don't make a right, the only problem is we have reached the point that guns are so absolutely pervasive here is almost no way for law enforcement to go after the bad traffickers and make an effective dent in their availability. The NRA is too extreme but I also see the argument that stricter gun control only make law abiding people defenseless because criminals by definition are going to find a way to break the law.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Whether the crime is rape or murder, some people feel that they have to blame the victim.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

“Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead,” Cotton wrote.

Wow. This almost shocks me, but, then, I consider the source -- an NRA exec. The "logic" being that guns -- the ultimate form of violence -- must be allowed in a church -- the ultimate place to seek peace and to worship -- so people can be protected from the millions of guns we've helped flood the streets of America. The inmates are truly running the asylum.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

JerseyBoy, yet it even ONE of the victims had been armed s/he could have stopped the perpetrator.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

"JerseyBoy, yet it even ONE of the victims had been armed s/he could have stopped the perpetrator"

F.B. : How do you know?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

3) The family could be lying to avoid an investigation into a felony straw man purchase. -Indeed, the truth will out.

==> What family? (divorced 2+ times)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3131858/Charleston-killer-Dylann-Roof-grew-fractured-home-violent-father-beat-stepmother-hired-private-detective-follow-split-claims-court-papers.html

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Doesn't Christianity forbid weapons inside churches, so I doubt that any worshippers would be carrying. Add in that priests are not allowed weapons that can draw blood even in wartime.

How about "You shall not kill.'?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

If you have a gun your are more likely to shoot a family member than anyone else. Or in many cases yourself. Guns are a public health hazard which should be banned in the USA as they are here in Japan. The NRA cares about only one thing, selling more guns. They are all going to hell for the lives lost by their marketing campaigns to increase gun usage and the following gun carnage.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

'They are all going to hell for the lives lost by their marketing campaigns to increase gun usage and the following gun carnage.'

They aren't going to hell. Sometimes I wish it existed. The fathers, mothers, partners, children, relatives and friends of those killed are living in the only hell that exists. The peddlers are laughing all the way to the bank. They need to be exposed in the here and now.

That's about as rousing as I can come up with. See you all here when the next massacre happens and Obama is blamed for trying to score political points.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The pressure cooker bomb guy in Boston was called a terrorist and people that helped him buy his equipment, that helped him study extremist stuff, that gave him tec support are now all facing charges of terrorism as accomplices. They should just do the same with this case. Prosecute the son, his supporting entourage and his gurus including NRA's... I mean starting with NRA.

if even ONE of the victims had been armed s/he could have stopped the perpetrator.

Come on. The victims are never SWATs or SEALs trained at stopping assaults. These shootings aim kids at school, grannies at church and why not some day peeps in bed at hospital... They had 0.0001% of chances to stop him bare hands, 0.0002% of stopping him with a gun and 5 to 30% of chances of hurting themselves or other church attenders at trying to shoot back.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

There is a reason gun rights rhymes with gun nuts

Would the press interview a crazy person?? Why do they give air time and attention to these murderers??

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17066654

It may be antithetical to the Kingdom to instinctively rely on violence to solve problems but just to show that properly trained civilians can save lives, when a similar incident to Charleston occurred seven years ago a security guard at New Life Church in Colorado Springs did end up killing a man who was shooting people in the church parking lot.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

But Liz, isn't the argument that we need guns...to stop guns? It's like we've released these things into the wild and now we need to constantly put out more of them to keep the percentages in the good guy's favor. As the arms race grows more guns fall into the wrong hands, get found by kids, etc. A bad guy can only be stopped once, and he can take quite a few people with him before it happens. Is the fact the he only got to 3 victims before he was taken out a sign of success?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The fact is that armed, law-abiding citizens do defend themselves from armed attackers successfully. That includes pastors with guns.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2014/12/30/pastor-shoots-church-attacker-inside-church/

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2014/11/20/3498793_lakewood-police-arrest-man-in.html?rh=1

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Frederic Bastiat "armed, law-abiding citizens do defend themselves from armed attackers successfully".

Nice logic. So, when every American has access to firearm it will be true paradise, right? Imagine men and women walking here and there, carrying handguns. Kids,armed by revolvers, playing in sandbox. Guards in public places, say shopping mall or movie theater, armed by Kalashnikovs. Police patrols riding alongside streets on APVs with heavy Machine Guns, mounted atop. Pastor, preaching in church with loaded chaingun nearby. Guys, your society is sick. Just realize it, face the reality.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Here is another report on priests with guns:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAQy8v0d_qo

This is what the NRA would like to see.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@yamashi,

"So, when every American has access to firearm it will be true paradise, right? "

Not at all. Did you not get the "law-abiding citizens" part? It's really not that hard. As previously mentioned, this young man was not eligible or legally permitted to possess a firearm. He had already lost that right. The rest of your post was nonsensical.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Frederic Bastiat "Did you not "the law-abiding citizens" part" ?

So, you wanna say that majority of Americans are not law-abiding citizens ? Look, every month if not week some armed idiot organizes a bloodbath in certain city or town of the USA. And every time some Americans begin to sing boring and rather stupid songs about "2nd Amendment" and "right to bear arms". In short, not my post but your society is sick and nonsensical.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@yamashi, there's no question that there is entirely too much gun(and other) violence in USA. I think we agree on that. But what is ignored is that it isn't law-abiding firearm owners perpetrating most of the crimes. Rather, the crimes are perpetrated by individuals whom the existing laws already prohibit access to firearms: felons, underage, ex-cons, mentally disturbed, drug dealers, gang members, etc).

0 ( +0 / -0 )

what is ignored is that it isn't law-abiding firearm owners perpetrating most of the crimes. Rather, the crimes are perpetrated by individuals whom the existing laws already prohibit access to firearms: felons, underage, ex-cons, mentally disturbed, drug dealers, gang members, etc).

It's not ignored, it's that they cannot be separated. The existence of guns in the law abiding comes with the existence of guns in the criminals.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

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