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Obama accuses McCain of lies, phony outrage over 'pig with lipstick' remark

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Lipstick can't hid ugly truths. Palin, in all truthfulness, not ugly - quite beautiful really.

This faux scandal is a sham and is more of the same from the GOP. Now that is a pig that can't hid behind lipstick.

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Candidate mccain is very content to turn this entire election into a replay of South Carolina in 2000, even going so far as to hire the man responsible for smearing him, tucker eskew.

Candidate mccain has no business pointing fingers at anyone when he talks about being ready to smear.

Taka

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It's great to see JT picking up on this story.

It shows the cheap and tawdry pettiness of the McCain people. The right-wingers, who blather on ad nauseum against political correctness, sure are making hypocrites out of themselves -- yet again! -- over this one.

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change: seems like the same old Washington whitewash to me.

=these bums better start actually doing something and stop complaining or else Bush better stay another 4. 4 More Years!!

Are my tax dollars actually paying for this GOP campaign smear? -of course they are McCain reassures me. We know how to spend your money, just be a good boy and pay your taxes and while you're at it elect to donate to the general campaign fund -it is tax deductable afterall.

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From the nonpartisan FactCheck.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/mccain-palin_distorts_our_finding.html

McCain-Palin ad has FactCheck.org calling Obama's attacks on Palin "absolutely false" and "misleading." That's what we said, but it wasn't about Obama.

Our article criticized anonymous e-mail falsehoods and bogus claims about Palin posted around the Internet. We have no evidence that any of the claims we found to be false came from the Obama campaign.

The McCain-Palin ad also twists a quote from a Wall Street Journal columnist. He said the Obama camp had sent a team to Alaska to "dig into her record and background." The ad quotes the WSJ as saying the team was sent to "dig dirt."

Update, Sept. 10: Furthermore, the Obama campaign insists that no researchers have been sent to Alaska and that the Journal owes them a correction. Analysis We don't object to people reprinting our articles. In fact, our copyright policy encourages it. But we've also asked that "the editorial integrity of the article be preserved" and told those who use our items that "you should not edit the original in such a way as to alter the message."

Less Than Honest

With its latest ad, released Sept. 10, the McCain-Palin campaign has altered our message in a fashion we consider less than honest. The ad strives to convey the message that FactCheck.org said "completely false" attacks on Gov. Sarah Palin had come from Sen. Barack Obama. We said no such thing. We have yet to dispute any claim from the Obama campaign about Palin.

They call the ad "Fact Check." It says "the attacks on Gov. Palin have been called 'completely false' ... 'misleading.' " On screen is a still photo of a grim-faced Obama. Our words are accurately quoted, but they had nothing to do with Obama.

Our article, posted two days earlier, debunked a number of false or misleading claims that have circulated in chain e-mails and Internet postings regarding Palin. There is no evidence that the Obama campaign is behind any of the wild accusations that we critiqued. There is no more basis for attributing these viral attacks to the Obama campaign than there is for blaming the McCain campaign for chain e-mail attacks falsely claiming that Obama is a Muslim, or a "racist," or that he is proposing to tax water.

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Obama did not refer to Palin when he used the lipstick metaphor. And the lipstick maxim is hardly new to either Obama or McCain. The Democrat has used it in the past, and McCain repeated it when he criticized Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton on health care. McCain was never accused of being sexist when he uttered those words."

Obviously, the AP has becoming a very leaning media outlet. This article actually supports Obama, it is not reported it is opinionated. If the shoe were on the other foot, McCain would be accused of race or sexism had Hillary been there. You can see how McCain is being accused of racism, http://wcbstv.com/politics/paterson.mccain.palin.2.813646.html.

It is now racist to use the term "community organizer".

I don't like this one bit. This has to be the first time where both camps look and used the dirtiest of words..

He called her a pig and that is insulting.

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Amen.

American politics could do with a lot less "phoney outrage". Taking umbridge has become poltical high art, and I for one am sick of it. Bonus points for Obama for calling it like it is.

Oh, and let me go on the record as saying I didn't think that Hillary was trying to indcate Obama would be assassinated when she mentioned RFK.

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skipthesong, the only people calling Palin a pig are those from the GOP. Obama was clearly taking about policy and McCain. Further, the expression refers to trying to prettify something inherently ugly - Palin is not ugly, in fact I would argue that her physical beauty and smart mouth is one of McCain's biggest assets.

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Nessie,

Thank you for that very revealing post. I give it about a day before we start hearing that factcheck.org is biased.

Taka

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skipthesong - Have you seen the talk that Obama mentioned the lipstick pig? Have you heard the 20 minute talk and Palin wasn't even mentioned?

Huh?

Where did he say Palin? < :-)

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Have you heard the 20 minute talk and Palin wasn't even mentioned?" No, if you have a link to it please send it up and I will see it tonight. But, you of all people are usually one of the first to kick sand in McCain even when accusations just like this fly around.

I am sure if I reference you mom, you would be angry wouldn't you.

Go Ralph Nadar, Ron Paul, and even Ronald McCDonald. Down with the dems and the repubs from here on

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This reminds me of the faux outrage about Bill Clinton's "fairy tale" comments that Obama used to help defeat his wife. Obama's proxies were practically calling Clinton a skin-head after the South Carolina primary. Just today, NY Governor David Paterson has claimed that Gov. Palin is using "racial coding" by downplaying Obama's community organizer days as experience to be president.

I would have to agree that the "lipstick on a pig" comment was very subtle and not direct enough to be considered a sexist remark. However, the folks in the crowd got the joke and laughed at the jibe. Palin has gotten under the Obama campaign's skin and they know she is a threat.

November 5th can't come soon enough...

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To ascertain whether something is sexist one first has to consider whether one man would say it to another. This is a no-brainer; Dick Cheney used the identical expression to describe John Kerry in 2004.

According to the McCain campaign, "Palin will do interviews, but she'll do them on the terms and conditions" specified by, wonders never cease, us! This is a standard which does not apply to any other candidate running for office, though GWB did manage to negotiate to have the "umms" edited out when he was interviewed in the WH by Tim Russert in early 2004.

Having it both ways really does a disservice to women striving for equal treatment. "Well, we can cry sexism here and stipulate a lower bar there." Umm, no thanks....

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So skipthesong you haven't seen it, but you so easily post: He called her a pig and that is insulting.

Without seeing the talk you can post that insightful opinion? An opinion based on {what}?

You're being McCain's best friend by repeating this. < :-)

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Typical stuff from the Republicans. Could we expect any different this time around? For them, its not what you meant, it is what they want you to mean, no matter how many mental contortions it takes to twist it that way.

Republicans love their straw men! I am glad to see Obama denied them their sad little straw man by calling them on their tactics. His remarks were spot on. Unfortunately a great many people are too stupid to have any idea what the heck is going on and will just believe McCain's campaign.

--Cirroc

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Obama has a gift for gab. So do many used car salesmen. This doesn't make them presidential material.

He speaks of the silly season in politics. It shouldn't exist. Neither should vehemence. It should stay dignified; going after one of the most powerful jobs on the earth. But, what can be expected from clowns who appear on Leno, Letterman and SNL?

One senator who once ran for prez had a lot of my respect. Then he made a Viagra commercial and 90 percent of my respect went down the drain.

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For them, its not what you meant, it is what they want you to mean,

What they want is to deflect attention from the issues. As Arianna Huffington pointed out, "If public attention is focused on whether Sarah Palin actually sold the Alaska jet on eBay or merely listed it," people won't be asking probing questions about how McCain intends to increase the number of troops in Afghanistan while maintaining the current level in Iraq (he was against GWB's 8,000 draw down). Or whether eliminating earmarks will in fact close the budget deficit as he seems to suggest.

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If obama only made the "lipstick on a pig" reference then I might be able to believe that he was just using an old expression.

But, when you combine that with the "You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change. It's still gonna stink" quote, what he meant is pretty clear. He was referring to Mrs. Palin and Mr. McCain.

His speech writers, handlers and 300 advisers had to have known that the comment would cause a backlash and they still chose to have him say it.

obama has a history of saying things and then back tracking by saying that is not what he meant. Like the statement about how he looks different then the other presidents on our money. He said it was not about race even though everyone else took it that way.

He just did the same thing with his abortion comments at the Saddleback forum. Three weeks later he comes out and says, this is what I meant to say.

Even if these things really are just mistakes, can Americans afford to have a president meet with world leaders who might slip up and say something inappropriate or that can be taken the wrong way? Most world leaders won't wait days or weeks for a President obama to say "what I meant was ...".

RR

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You're being McCain's best friend by repeating this. < :-)" There you go accusing....... aday, if I saw McCain on the street, I'd probably first think how I can easily take him on and take all that he has. I'd shoot him just as fast as I would anyone who I felt were threatening me. Yes, I do believe assassinations for the cause of political change is not murder and if you feel that if McCain should win and you don't like it - you have my blessing on shooting the dude because I ain't voting for him.

if you want to grill me because of me making an accusation which I heard through third parties, ok. You're right to do so but have you literally heard the racist remarks from McCain's mouth that you yourself jumped up and down on? Are you going to inform Governor Patereson that maybe a word community organizer is not necessarily racist and dispute him or are you going to go with the flow? Yes you will just as many Americans will ""Unfortunately a great many people are too stupid to have any idea what the heck is going on and will just believe McCain's campaign." and Obama's too!

This is turning out to be the most disgusting of campaigns I have seen in all my voting age years. Oh, and yes, Obama is much to blame as well as McCain.

"He speaks of the silly season in politics. It shouldn't exist. Neither should vehemence. It should stay dignified; going after one of the most powerful jobs on the earth. But, what can be expected from clowns who appear on Leno, Letterman and SNL?" All should read this post several times over.

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What they want is to deflect attention from the issues.

Yes, that too.

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Even if these things really are just mistakes, can Americans afford to have a president meet with world leaders who might slip up and say something inappropriate or that can be taken the wrong way?

You mean like, "We'll stay in Iraq for a 100 years." Oh, I didn't mean that!

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when you combine that with the "You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change. It's still gonna stink" quote, what he meant is pretty clear. He was referring to Mrs. Palin and Mr. McCain.

Would you like to explain that non sequitur? From the short clip I saw on YouTube, both the 'lipstick on a pig' and the 'old fish in paper' comments were in direct reference to McCain's policies which, Obama claims, are no different from Bush's policies even though Cain says they represent 'change'.

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In this very same speech in which Barack's message is being twisted to mean smearing, the major part talked about the fact that Palin is great in raising 5 children and how he finds even raising 2 even difficult.

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Obviously, the AP has becoming a very leaning media outlet. This article actually supports Obama, it is not reported it is opinionated.

If one side is right and that is backed up by evidence, and the other side is wrong, how do you suggest writing a fair and balanced article? Do you want the news to never expose lies, but always take both sides even when one is clearly wrong?

The only way to connect Palin to the remark is in one's own subconscious mind. You have to put it there, all by yourself. In other words, it is the Republicans calling Palin a pig, because their subconscious led them there.

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RomeoRamenII, the lipstick on a pig is used to refer to things rather than people (i.e. McCain's policies). To suggest that Obama would call anyone a pig, let alone a woman who is his rival's VP pick (as the GOP have), indicates that change is not in the offing from the McCain camp.

Exactly what change can be expected from McCain when his campaign smells of Bush & Rove.

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RomeoRamenII - That is an opinion. John McCain's pretty good with diarrhea of the mouth. Swinging those little fist and waving that old pen, like he's ever going to get to veto anything.

He's used the lipstick on a pig statement himself and he was talking about Hillary directly.

Can't wait to hear his little vice select. He's been giving hugs and kisses like she's his. Boy I couldn't believe the way he was watching her butt at a campaign stop while cameras were filming. < :-)

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can Americans afford to have a president meet with world leaders who might slip up and say something inappropriate or that can be taken the wrong way?

You mean inappropriate like -

A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question about it

Do you have blacks, too? (to Brazilian President Fernando Cardoso)

If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow.

I'm the commander - see, I don't need to explain - I do not need to explain why I say things.

For every fatal shooting, there were roughly three non-fatal shootings. And, folks, this is unacceptable in America. It's just unacceptable. And we're going to do something about it.

I firmly believe the death tax is good for people from all walks of life

You're absolutely right Ramen, America cannot afford to have (another) president like that.

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Hmmm.... Let's see now....

Major Premise: The difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull is lipstick. (Palin)

Minor Premise: Calling the continuation of Bush's policies a change by making minor tweaks is like putting "lipstick on a pig". (Obama)

Conclusion: Obama has insulted Palin. (McCain)

I'm hoping for a president who has a slightly better grasp of logic. Of course, if you're the biggest b^d ^ss on the planet, or a big fan of same, you can always believe that logic is irrelevant any time you choose to say so.

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Thanks, Taka. Anyway, it'll probably be lost in the buzz here. I should note that I've linked to FactCheck.org articles debunking claims by both the Republicans and the Democrats. I invite anyone else who's sick of lies and distortions from either side to subscribe to their newsletter.

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obama is commiting political suicide by calling Governor Palin a pig, and has made himself a poster boy for misogyny.

joe biden recently used the word "lipstick" to refer to Mrs. Palin, so obama's claim his comments were about Mr. McCain doesn't pass the smell test.

RR

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McCain's campaign manager, Rick Davis, deserved full marks for chutzpah...when he told Fox News' Chris Wallace that Palin would not answer reporters' questions "until the point in time when she'll be treated with respect and deference."

Deference?

Respect and courtesy, maybe. Everybody is entitled to those -- including candidates for office -- and journalists seldom look worse than when they forget that. But deference? The president does not require deference from his media interlocutors, but the ambitious governor of Alaska does?

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-rutten10-2008sep10,0,7601200.column

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RomeoRamenII,

Obama's claim doesn't pass the smell test if you have some nasal pathology or if you haven't listened to what Obama actually said. Otherwise, it passes just fine. It is McCain's comment that stinks to high heaven.

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skipthesong - Maybe I'm just disappointed.

Not that we agree on a lot, but I thought you were above the slandering that the republicans spread so freely. Maybe I had you wrong.

Have a good day. < :-)

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Speaking freely, and that is becoming a hard thing to do, world wide media has droned on about how beautiful she is but oddly enough when we were watching the news I commented to my wife that her butt looks like a pig's. That is a terrible thing to say but if the media is going to comment on her looks and they certainly have, then I have every right to comment on her looks as well. I bet the mod deletes this post as being "offensive" but I didn't bring up the topic of her looks, its been well reported in the media about how "beautiful" she is or was when she ran for Ms. Alaska so if you don't like my opinion about her being overweight then too bad, you started it by claiming she was "beautiful."

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RR,

Did you think it was OK for Dick Cheney back in 2004 (the only difference being Palin is female):

But the point is that no matter how hard he tries, no matter how much spin he tries to put on it, that you can't cover that record up with a little tough talk during the course of the campaign, that as we say in Wyoming, you can put all the lipstick you want on a pig, but in the end of the day, it's still a pig.

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Matt Frei has a good take on this -

Oddly enough she (Palin) was not offended by Barack Obama's remarks. In fact it is the kind of thing this pistol-packing moose-slayer might have said herself. But her campaign advisers and those blushing violets around the uber-sensitive John McCain are more offended than nuns in a nudist romp. The Republican Party that used to pride itself on red meat and red necks is behaving like a bunch of fruitarians in a sausage factory. The proud founding member of the "bad boys club" at the US Naval Academy, John "Wayne" McCain himself is hanging the noose of sexism around the feline Barack Obama, who is more in touch with his inner woman than any candidate since Hillary Clinton.

Ever since Sarah Palin has erupted onto the scene, Barack Obama has been caught like a moose in headlights. He needs to rediscover his mojo, appeal to the voter's gut and not just their frontal lobe or he too will become Alaskan road-kill.

And more in the same vein.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/americas/2008/vote_usa_2008/7609440.stm

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The Democrats are setting themselves up for failure in this election just as they've done in the recent elections.

The Republicans are going to release sensational statements and falsehoods right up to election day. They're going to do it with speeches on camera and television advertisements which they know will have the most impact. If they get exposed for stretching the truth or flat out lying it will be done in newspapers and will reach fewer people and will have much less of an impact on those it does reach. It's a calculated move and something the Republicans have done for years.

They're going to use these tactics daily. And the Democrats will do what they've always done, which is spend most of their time crying "liar!" Republicans will dominate the agenda by getting their message out while the Democrats chase them around and spend all of their time reacting to comments.

The fact is this: The Democrats need to mirror the Republicans. They cannot win the election by letting the Republicans dictate the campaigning. They're falling into the same trap that lost the elections in 2000 and 2004.

Obama shouldn't have responded to McCain's comments about "lipstick on a pig." If you read the article above it give a few examples of how McCain has also used that statement before. The media will do that for him. Instead Obama should have continued to go on the offensive. In 3 days people will have forgotten all about the comments, so why waste time going back and forth with them. Today's message was "liar" and "that's not what I said." That's not a message that's going to get votes.

The Democrats need to grow up and start doing what it takes to win.

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"You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change. It's still gonna stink."

Heh, that comment describes his running mate, Sen. biden, to a "T".

RR

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SuperLib - As I posted before, the only thing democrats are good at doing is playing defense. But what can you expect when the far left wing of the DNC nominated the weakest candidate within their party to run for president?

RR

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Obama shouldn't have responded to McCain's comments about "lipstick on a pig."

Bull. If you don't respond you look weak.

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Obama was referring to the Bush administration with his rude "lipstick on a pig" remark.

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"lipstick on a pig" would be the best thing that anybody can call the bush administration. < :-)

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Nessie,

Along with Real Clear Politics, Taxpayers for Common Sense and the Government Accountability Office's homepage (the single biggest and most effective anti-bush page ever created), FactCheck is bookmarked on my home computer.

Taka

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****Personal remarks, good or bad, especially in political capaigns are inappropriate.

Joe Biden referred to Obama's wife as drop-dead gorgeous. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I'm going to be inapropriate and say that I, personally, do not see her as such. She isn't ugly but, drop-dead gorgeous?

Of course, I ain't drop-dead gorgeous myself but it ain't my fault. Wouldn't "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear" have been better?

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caveman" If one side is right and that is backed up by evidence, and the other side is wrong, how do you suggest writing a fair and balanced article? Do you want the news to never expose lies, but always take both sides even when one is clearly wrong?" There are things called opinion articles. I would like news to be reported as is with actual facts, not third party accounts, nor what was thought to be seen.

The only way to connect Palin to the remark is in one's own subconscious mind. You have to put it there, all by yourself. In other words, it is the Republicans calling Palin a pig, because their subconscious led them there." They may think that, but who said what to who and referred to what right now?

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it is the Republicans calling Palin a pig, because their subconscious led them there

Skip, go look at the video of the speech. See obama's supporters' reaction to his comment. They knew exactly who he was talking about.

Let obama keep flapping his gums. The more he speaks, the more American voters see him as the sexist, racist he really is.

RR

RR

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If you watch McCain he can hardly keep his hands off Palin. Right after her introduction to the public he was introducing her before his wife and giving hugs and squeezes.

It appears now that John McCain may have had some pillowtalk with the Mrs. He's kissing Cindy and introducing her first and then Palin.

Can't wait to see him on the campaign trail without Cindy McCain. John McCain will get more handsy before the election is over. < :-)

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What a crock! Here's a quick question: why is the line 'pig on a lipstick' so quickly understood? because it's been for a whole lot longer than Palin/McCain, and it's been used a LOT over the last decade.

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sarge: newsflash... republicans have used the 'rude', as you call it, lipstick on a pig remark plenty of times in the past as well.

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Obama is sexist and racist now? Keep slinging. Maybe there are enough scared people who aren't concerned with facts to actually let baseless accusations influence their votes. I'm sure the traitor Republican party is hoping so.

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RomeoRamenII,

I think it is very probable that Obama supporters were aware of Palin's previous remark. No doubt it enhanced their appreciation of Obama's comment. However, they are very clear that the remark applies to McCain's empty promise of change--which you can grasp if you really listen to what Obama is saying.

Furthermore, the only way that this comment even begins to work as an insult is if it insults McCain and not Palin. Palin is rather obviously the pretty face, the gloss on McCain's campaign. Palin would be the lipstick. McCain would be the pig.

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RomeoRamenII at 10:51 AM JST - 11th September

obama is commiting political suicide by calling Governor Palin a pig, and has made himself a poster boy for misogyny.

I understand that you have a political bias. So do I in the opposite direction. However, I would like to point out how ridiculous your comment is by quoting the quotes from sezwho2:

Major Premise: The difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull is lipstick. (Palin)

Minor Premise: Calling the continuation of Bush's policies a change by making minor tweaks is like putting "lipstick on a pig". (Obama)

Conclusion: Obama has insulted Palin. (McCain)

I understand your passion, but your posts need a bit more logic. Thank you.

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Sez,

Careful. You are thiiiiiis close to a "See! These liberals are now saying candidate mccain is a transvestite! Is there no end to their smears!".

;-)

Taka

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How's this policy for a pig in need of lipstick?

According to Michael Kinsley of Time Magazine, Alaskans receive over $3,000 in rebates but suck up the most federal money per capita.

So if Team McCain represents change, will the other 48 states receive similar funding? And how does this pending reckless welfare state square with conservatives?

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obama's campaign has picked up on "lipstick" as the code word for Mrs. Palin and it backfired.

To think that obama's 300 advisers and his speechwriters weren't aware of the nuances of what they had him say defies credibility.

RR

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how about a "Moose with Lipstick" -to me that is more visually enticing and fits in better with my Bull-Moose 2008 proposition.

Anyway it will be fun to see what heresay they come up with tomorrow -anything to get off topic it seems.

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Barack went to Columbia and to Harvard. The repubs can't be expected to follow his high-minded discourse on politics in our country.So why worry?

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RR

They knew exactly who he was talking about.

Agreed. Obama knew he was taking a jab at Palin when he made his comment. The audience knew who he was talking about. Everyone I know knew who he was talking about. Even those now attempting damage control knew who he was talking about.

However, if he was so clueless that he didn't think making a "lipstick/pig" joke only six days after Palin's "lipstick" comment would be perceived poorly, especially by women , then he's dumber than I already think he is. What poor judgment on his part.

The Obama juggernaut is self-destructing right before our eyes. Hehe.

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One would have to be pretty dim - or a liberal - to not realize that obama's couplet (pig, old fish) referred to Mrs. Palin and Mr. McCain. Obviously, obama's audience got it.

Nonetheless, it is not so much the fact that obama used those lines that is disturbing. It is the fact that Team obama and his supporters are so foolishly denying the blatantly obvious.

That is what the undecided voters are seeing back in the States.

RR

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So Barack said something controversial. So What.

YOU try going from sunrise to sunset without food or drink and see how clear you talk!

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Maybe there are enough scared people who aren't concerned with facts to actually let baseless accusations influence their votes

-and they all voted in 2004.

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and now Joe went and said that Hillary would have been a better pick than him. hahahahahaha! The wheels are falling of Obama.

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What poor judgment on his part.

True dat.

barack obama wants to make his good judgment; not his experience, as the reason to vote for him.

With this "lipstick on a pig" line he's either ignorant of what Gov. Palin said in her acceptance speech, or he is directly referring to her, individually.

Obviously, perception is reality and likely, many (if not most) Americans believe obama's comment was an intentional reference to Gov. Palin.

Regardless, obama's judgement comes up lacking.

obama's judgment was wrong on "Rev." Wright.

obama's judgement was wrong on "The Surge."

obama's association with convicted domestic terrorist William Ayers continues to demonstrate a lack of judgment.

obama's connection to finacier and convicted felon Tony Rezko also doesn't seem to fit the definition of good judgment.

These are just a few examples of poor judgment by obama.

RR

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now Joe went and said that Hillary would have been a better pick than him

Heh, makes one wonder if ol' joe's starting to have his own buyer's remorse?

RR

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These are just a few examples of poor judgment by obama.

You forgot one. He picked "Slow-Joe" Biden.

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Sarge said:

Obama was referring to the Bush administration with his rude "lipstick on a pig" remark.

So, was it rude when McCain used the same analogy on Hilary? What about when Cheney used the same analogy? Both said "lipstick on a pig."

Cheney (I originally posted link: goodDonkey at 08:45 PM JST - 10th September)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjwVEeq7JiQ

/

McCain (I originally posted link: goodDonkey at 09:35 PM JST - 10th September)

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2007/10/mccainrollsouthealthplan_a.html

I posted these links which clearly show both Cheney and McCain used the line "lipstick on a pig" and McCain used it in reference to Hilary. That was well over 24 hours ago. Check my record. Of course you could say that any reference to "lipstick" now is a reference to Palin because she now has claim to "lipstick" because she made a cute remark using "lipstick." It's all about her isn't it? The Republicans are lying. It is just pure deceit. The Republicans will be honest when pigs fly. Uh oh! Did Palin say something about Hockey moms flying? I better check so I am not inadvertently calling her a pig. Because after all you know it is all about her.

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You forgot one. He picked "Slow-Joe" Biden

I wrote just a few. But you are correct. Sen. ch...ch...ch... Change chose as a running mate a guy who's been a Washington insider for decades; a guy who's ballot box poison; pulling only 3 percent of the popular vote among democrats in his home state's primary and less than 1 percent on the others before he dropped out of the race.

Heh, yet more sound judgment by obama.

RR

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you could say that any reference to "lipstick" now is a reference to Palin because she now has claim to "lipstick" because she made a cute remark using "lipstick."

You don't make a "lipstick/pig" joke right after a woman makes "a cute remark using lipstick." One will naturally assume you're referring to that woman, just like everyone did. Obama knew this when he said it, but man, did he miscalculate this one.

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Good Donkey,

You are forgetting rule one thing:

IOKIYAR

Taka

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RomeoRamenII,

Keep on beating that drum. I think the concussive shock has impaired your judgment, however.

The only conclusion that analytic folk can arrive at is that McCain is so bereft of things to say that he has to make things up. After what he went through with Bush in 2000, I would have expected better of him.

Perhaps he is too old to grasp the full import of his accusation and how inaccurate and irrelevant it is. Perhaps he is too dim in understanding to recognize that what he is saying is not true. Or perhaps he is just so desperate that he has to try to paint Obama as a racist and sexist.

Setting aside all the perhapses, though, the one thing that is abundantly clear is that Obama was talking about McCain's policies and not about either McCain or Palin. Last I looked, nobody has a patent on the word "lipstick", the expression "put lipstick on a pig" is in current usage and Obama used it correctly to describe a threadbare suit of policies that sports a lapel pin reading "change". People know what this expression means and anyone with a half-open mind can see that Obama was not insulting Palin (or McCain).

And it's the half-open minds that Obama has to win. McCain is unlikely to win them with patently false accusations.

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You don't make a "lipstick/pig" joke right after a woman makes "a cute remark using lipstick."

Actually Obama made the "lipstick/pig" joke right after pointing out that McCain's proposed policies are no different from Bush's policies, only with a 'change' label stuck on them.

There was nothing "cute" about Palin's remark. Gimme the pitbull any day, it could probably be trained not to shoot moose.

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Helter Skelter,

That's nonsense. One will assume no such thing. Some people will assume that and most of those people will have done poorly on the Miller Analogies Test.

People with something on the ball might assume that he had picked up on Palin's rework of the lipstick/pig quote either consciously or unconsciously. And they may appreciate that the quote was returned to its proper usage. But they will also note that the remark did not apply to Palin.

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Helter_Skelter

You don't make a "lipstick/pig" joke right after a woman makes "a cute remark using lipstick." One will naturally assume you're referring to that woman,Helter_Skelter

Oh, do tell what is the proper waiting period? He only waited a week.

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goodDonkey / Taka313 -

Why is your candidate behind in the polls when he should be twenty points ahead of the old man and the lipstick lady?

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Obama really made a blunder. He doesn't realize the great love between red state residents and their pigs.

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Palin would not answer reporters' questions "until the point in time when she'll be treated with respect and deference."

By Dick Cheney's standards she's certainly ready to be vice president, if now wring-wraith shadow president.

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Now if he'd said "pig with lipstick, glasses and a dysfunctional family"....

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SezWho

People know what this expression means and anyone with a half-open mind can see that Obama was not insulting Palin

Spin it any way you want, but everybody knows Obama was making reference to Palin and her lipstick comment. No need to continue the charade. If anything, you should be supporting Obama's insult of Palin since I'm sure you feel the same way about her. Go ahead, embrace it.

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"There was nothing cute about Palin's remark"

Yeah, she can dish it out as well as she can take it.

Go, Sarah!

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There are obviously some soccer moms posting here. Like pitbulls without lipstick, they just keep attacking and attacking and attacking. Seems to be all they can do. Things like "weighing evidence" is way out of their league.

In a time when it is obvious to any fool that we need diplomacy, do we need these pitbulls in lipstick? The last 8 years have been a debacle. That is why the next four years must be Democrat.

--Cirroc

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There is only one comment on this thread that pleases me:

"Roll on November the 5th".

I no longer care even if they elect bush back in for four more years. Just stop with the inane, childish shrieking America. It's an international embarassment....

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SuperLib at 11:02 AM JST - 11th September

Words of wisdom Democrats need to heed. The closer we get to election time, the sillier people will get. Democrats need to exploit that silliness like the Republicans do or we will have four more years of World Wrestling Federation type government. These discussions are like bad tabloid press, passing as issues only because politician's names are involved. It is disgusting. And so is the ease and speed with which the Republicans pander to it.

Vote for Obama so America can feel clean again.

--Cirroc

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Sarge

Why is your candidate behind in the polls when he should be twenty points ahead of the old man and the lipstick lady?

Why do ask everyone else questions, when you don't answer squat?

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"You must really be running out of steam if this is the best you can muster at this stage of the game. "Sexist?" "Racist?" "

This is the bast not only the trolls here can muster, but incredibly, it's the best the damned McCain camp can muster.

As I continue to watch the childish antics that pass for US elections, I can only think anyone with a brain would vote for the Democrats, but then again, look at all those that voted for Dubya...

Once again, roll on Nov 5th...

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Heh.The mcneocon's are desperate aren't they, madvert.

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Taka313

Excellent point.

But they had not gone twenty yards when they stopped short. An uproar of voices was coming from the farmhouse. They rushed back and looked through the window again. Yes, a violent quarrel was in progress. There were shoutings, bangings on the table, sharp suspicious glances, furious denials. The source of the trouble appeared to be that Napoleon and Mr. Pilkington had each played an ace of spades simultaneously.

/

Twelve voices were shouting in anger, and they were all alike. No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

I have a first edition copy; somewhere - in a gallon ziploc bag. Of course I didn't type this passage (the end). I just copied it from a text version online.

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Sarge

Yeah, she can dish it out as well as she can take it.

Yeah, she can take it alright. That is why you are on this thread whining about what she was whining about.

LOL

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McCain’s campaign called Obama’s comments “offensive and disgraceful” and said the first-term Illinois senator owes Palin an apology.

Tuck in your skirt princess!

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Just stop with the inane, childish shrieking America. It's an international embarassment....

As if America is somehow unique in this regard. Have you seen the Taiwanese legislature lately? :-D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbSvPtyCoEs

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Adverts - "Just stop with the inane, childish shrieking America"

Tee hee! We've been doing this every 4 years for a long time - get used to it!

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Tee hee! We've been doing this every 4 years for a long time - get used to it!

Some of us continue to hope and work for better.

--Cirroc

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goodDonkey - Oh, for cryin' out loud, neither I nor Sarah Palin are "whining" about anything - we're just having a good time getting in some jabs at your candidate who is slipping. Hey, did you hear Obama's answer to a reporter's question as to how he is going to regain the lead in the polls? He was a slippin' and a slidin' in search of a coherent thought ha ha ha

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"we're just having a good time getting in some jabs at your candidate who is slipping"

sarge, the "jabs" and the make-believe outrage ae pathetic.

Try and take note of Cirroc's attitude. Sensible bloke...

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alinksy4pasq,

They don't need to be desperate - there are plenty of dumbed down one's that actually believe Obama made these comments as a reference to palin, as there are on the anniversary of today, that still believe saddam was flying one of the planes...

Heh, we are talking about the people that voted in the illiterate Bush for not one but two terms.

If Pee Wee Herman was running with McCain y'all would be, heh, behind him...

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Cirroc/Madverts - Heh, you guys are just ticked off because your candidate is slipping and will lose on Nov. 4.

Palin and McCain are a good pair. She's pro-life and he's clinging to life.

Jay Leno
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Actually it was a smart choice. McCain went with Palin because he didn't want to have to be in a position to get CPR from Mitt Romney.

Jay Leno
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The obama love train continues its derailment:

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=RDVUPqoowf8&feature=related

democrat Lemming Day fast approaches.

RR

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let's stop elections now! Look at this board. Blind groupies is what is going to decide who and who doesn't get in. Since many Americans want their health care taken over by the US government They want to keep the social security in the government's hands, they want the government to be able to us who to hire, what form of house protection with can have, etc..

Why don't we just put the elections in their hands as well, kind of like the Japanese system and let them elect, hopefully fairly, the next president?

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Here's the latest ad running on U.S. TV. The 527s machine is warming up:

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=m89m0pC_bpY

Buh bye, obama.

RR

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What a terrible waste of energy and time over one remark which was quoted out of context and has absolutely nothing to do with the issues that should decide the outcome of the coming elections. I am very disappointed by the way the republicans jumped on this. I wouldn't trust these people who accuse their opponents of smearing while doing it themselves, for a moment I believe there are still enough Americans who can see through this and do not base their decisions on what the ever sensation hunting media report.

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I am very disappointed by the way the republicans jumped on this." Either your news comes from newspapers or you only go to a few news sites.. watch a bit of US t.v. - it is a circus this election; its got people all reved up on both sides.... I hope I never see this type of election again.

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Okay, so Barack might lose a few votes over this.But all he has to do is get another autobiography out in the next thirty days and he wins back the independents who get suckered by the corporate media that is 110 percent behind mccain and palin.

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The Democratic nominee has been boxed into a corner, endlessly reacting to the outrageous slurs and arrows, unable to steer the conversation towards the issues and the future.

Ever since Sarah Palin has erupted onto the scene, Barack Obama has been caught like a moose in headlights.

He needs to rediscover his mojo, appeal to the voter's gut and not just their frontal lobe or he too will become Alaskan road-kill.

This is what Matt Frei of the BBC wrote. For the full article go to: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/americas/2008/vote_usa_2008/7609440.stm

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Sarge, great posts buddy. More accusations without foundation. Obama is in a state of meltdown, he is panicking as droce sof supporters leave him daily.

McCain does not lie, he is a man of honor who is a true patriot.

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Helter Skelter,

Thank you for your permission to spin this any way I want. But I neither need your permission nor do I need to spin anything.

Everybody does not know that Obama was making reference to Palin. In fact, thoughtful people are more likely to understand that he was not making reference to Palin. Although they are quite likely to believe that Palin's recent comment triggered his use of this particular metaphor, they understand that the metaphor applied not to Palin but to McCain's new banner as a change agent.

If there is any spin, it is you who is doing the spinning. To construe this as an insult to Palin requires us to divorce Obama's phrase from the speech in which it appears and then to believe that he has either constructed a metaphor which does not work or else that he has gratuitously insulted Palin to no point. The person who has been indulging in gratuitous and personal insults is Palin herself.

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"thoughtful people are more likely to understand that he was not making reference to Palin"

Yes, we understand he was referring to McCain with the "old fish" comment.

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we understand he was referring to McCain with the "old fish" comment

Sure he wasn't referring to biden?

RR

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Everybody does not know that Obama was making reference to Palin.

It's a shame that Barack, with two degrees from Ivy League schools and his neighbourhood activist experience, has to employ metaphors like 'put lipstick on a pig' to connect with voters.

{sigh}

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Tit for tat the republicans and the democrats spin these little things to advantage and the public goes along with it. I personally am sick of the whole thing, can we vote so I can start hating whichever one gets in.

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Sarge,

The key word there was "thoughtful", not "creative". The law of parsimony suggests that Obama meant what he said and not what he didn't say.

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Alinsky4prez,

Does Obama have to employ metaphors to connect or does he employ metaphors and connect? Political metaphor is as old as parables and as new as pit bulls.

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With a woman on their ticket the republicans and their lackeys in the media can use Barack's own technique against him, painting anyone who criticizes or investigates as "sexist." It's so not fair.

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On behalf of Miss Piggy and her company, Miss Piggy Cosmetics, inc., a maker of fine lipstick, I am suing Sarah Palin for several million dollars for copyright infringement. Palin should have known better than to try and steal the well known act of the honorable Miss Piggy.

Palin's actions have been an insult to pigs everywhere.

--Cirroc

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I like pigs and lipstick! As for Obama accuses McCain of lies, phony outrage over 'pig with lipstick' remark... that's untrue because mccain's wife would be furious.

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