Obama addresses Arab world; urges Israel to go back to 1967 borders

Now we know why the LA Times refused back in 08 to release film footage of Obama at a pro-Palestinian dinner with radicals like his friend Rashid Khalidi.

I hope Israel holds firm. Screw those old borders. Israel rocks.

Well done, Mr Obama for acknowledging that Israel is in the wrong. It's about time somebody addressed the rogue state.

"Obama left room for adjustments"

That was nice of him.

"Obama "threw Israel under the bus"

Oh my...

"the rogue state"

If Israel is a rogue state, what is Syria?

The current US President has said, and done many idiotic and stupid things. But nothing even comes close to being more idiotic then this.

"Arab Spring" means third Intifada.

dear oh dear, people critising Israel... only a matter of time before the charges of anti-semitism come rolling out

There's something wrong with Israel. Time to fix it. Israelis had more than 50 years to do that, but they only made things worse.

There are already a lot of anti-semitism in the spin zone. Thanks to FB and the internet.

Once again, Israel is being used as the scapegoat for the world problems.

• The canceling of roughly $1 billion in debt for Egypt. The intention is that money freed from that debt obligation would be swapped toward investments in priority sectors of the Egyptian economy, likely to focus on entrepreneurship and employment for younger people. Unemployment rates are soaring in Egypt and across the region. • The guaranteeing of up to $1 billion in borrowing for Egypt through the Overseas Private Investment Corporation, a U.S. government institution that mobilizes private capital. • Promises by the U.S. to launch a new trade partnership in the Middle East and North Africa and to prod world financial institutions to help Egypt and Tunisia.

When the deficit is in the trillions, USA credit is on the line, people out of work, the middle class being taxed, giving away billions of dollars makes one a laughing stock. It's easier to spend tax payers money on other nations when it isn't coming out of the pockets elected officials.

Well done, Mr Obama for acknowledging that Israel is in the wrong. It's about time somebody addressed the rogue state.

I don't believe Israel started the war, but was attacked and won those territories. So if they won them after being attacked (surprise attack), why should they give them back to the same people who attacked them? Have the Palestinians decided to renounce suicide bombings and rocket attacks and acknowledged their part in attacking Israel first before asking for the territory back?

President Barack Hussein Obama to Israel - "Drop Dead".

"‘‘Arab Spring’’" Who came up with that name? Is it meant to imply that the long hard Egyptian, Tunisian, ... winter is over? The desert sands have thawed. And the summer warmth is at last around the corner?

Somehow, I don't think that imagery would resonate so well with the people of Yemen, Syria, Libya, etc.

Israel has been practicing a form of Apartheid for far too long. Perhaps it was time that someone threw that government "Under the Bus" to knock some sense into them.

That conflict will never end until one of two things happen, A. The establishment of two sovereign states with clearly defined borders (fair borders). or B. The intergration of both states into a single multi-cultural state.

The US has to stop siding with only Israel, especially in this current age of change in the Middle East. It is time to apply pressure to Israel to change.

Well done!

The U.S. just killed Bin Laden, they have to do something to make some of the more extremist Islamic groups hate them a bit less. Isn't the U.S. stopping it's support of Israel a main point in Al Qaeda's demands?

MrDog. I don't think this has anything to do with extremist groups. It is just a rational shift in policy.

Why have we spent so much energy defending Israel when a more balanced policy has always been what was needed?

Palestine did not belong to the Settlers. They took it by force from Arabs who had supported the Allies in both world wars. We betrayed their friendship in supporting the establishment of the Israeli state to start with. Then why was the world surprised when the people of the area decided to fight back?

In South Africa we condemned the Afrikaner state for their actions against the indigenous peoples. To the point where global economic restriction forced them to cave in and establish an entirely new state.

What is so different about Israel's colonists and their imposition of brutal Apartheid?

Both sides have spilled enough blood. It is time for a solution. Since the Israelis and Palestinians can't get there on their own, it is time for the world to pressure them both into a solution! The 1967 borders is a reasonable place to start.

tkoind2, Who told you we condemned Afrikaner?. History readings tell that there were only to states that supported them; USA and Israel

tkoind2: but during the Apartheid, nobody launched rockets or blown themselves in buses.

skipbeat: There are already a lot of anti-semitism in the spin zone. Thanks to FB and the internet.

Antisemitism and opposed to Israel are to 2 separate things.

Please separate the land/country and the religion. Otherwise I must be an antisemitic Jew...

Still, the Arabs in the region had their land stolen and any retaliation was cracked down with the aid of western money and weapons. Blame the British, the UN. Whatever...

This is just going to be another rehash of the Clinton-Rabin-Arafat talks of 1993-94, and almost certainly with the same result.

Obama confirmed what we Jews have known all along: When the Arabs lays down their guns, there will be peace. When Israel lays down its guns, there will be no Israel.

RR

Obama confirmed what we Jews have known all along: When the Arabs lays down their guns, there will be peace. When Israel lays down its guns, there will be no Israel.

How has Obama confirmed this? Israel has never even tried peace. 60+ years of warfare with its neighbors and the people without a state.

It's about time US foreign policy moves at least a little bit out of step with Israel's interests. I have no idea why the US supports Israel no matter what - there is not a single one of the other US allies for which the US would bend that far backward.

In other news, in a session at the U.N., Mexico has outlined a series of initiatives urging that the Mexican state be expanded based on its 1846 borders. Britain immediately jumped on the band wagon demanding a renegotiation of the outcome of the Revolutionary War and sensing a financial opportunity, France has also urged the Obama Administration to renegotiate the Louisiana purchase. Secretary General Moon expressed his exasperation by saying, “Come on! What’s the point of war then?”

Smorkian,

" Israel has never even tried peace. 60+ years of warfare with its neighbors and the people without a state." Yeah so true, but who in that 60 years caused, started the majority of those wars just out of curiosity.

The Israelis have a right to keep what they got from the spoils of war. They have turned the desert green, built a great economy etc.... etc... WHat have the Palestinians done besides making babies, rockets, and guns? Absolutely nothing. Stay firm Israel. TOday is Friday in Japan. Shabat Shalom

Yeah so true, but who in that 60 years caused, started the majority of those wars just out of curiosity.

I don't disagree with that. Their neighbors and the Palestinians have done some awful stuff. But Israel hasn't had any qualms about offing civilians, or forcing them to live in slums.

There's plenty of blame to go around for sure. I just wish the US would keep the hell out of it.

I believe historians will look back at the 2nd US war on Iraq as the high water mark for Israel. This move by Obama signals the end of any hope for "Greater Israel."

Can everyone see the result of the israeli master plan in the last 20 or more years of building ¨illegal settelements in the west bank¨ ? They have always known there would one day b 2 states, and by building those settelemts with 300,000 or so living there now, they can say what netanyahoo. For those who argue about the spoils of war, why cant the israelies do what the americans had done with japan and germany...

With his posthumous video clip, Osama started a speech war for the hearts and minds of the populace of the Middle East .

This sounds like Obama's return speech to wrest those young hearts and minds back again.

@Tumbledry

tkoind2: but during the Apartheid, nobody launched rockets or blown themselves in buses.

No but pipe bomb attacks at public bars and restaurants took place. I do recall an apartheid era song by the ANC military wing going along the lines of "1 bullet, 1 settler", not too different if you ask me.

Moderator: Readers, no further references to the ANC or South Africa please. That is not what this story is about.

tkoind2: Why have we spent so much energy defending Israel when a more balanced policy has always been what was needed?

Because the Palestinian use of terrorism makes it nearly impossible for them to have any partners in the world arena, except for countries like Iran and Syria. And between the two parties, Israel and Palestine, only one has really shown that they're really willing to accept living next to their neighbor.

Magnificent work by Obama. What he is calling for is mainstream and moderate in approach. The typical hysterical reaction for the religious right just verifies that Obama's approach is correct.

Israel now has a choice, accept this challenge and live in peace or refuse and continue to be not very different from those countries that oppressed Jews during WW2.

Under the 1967 borders, Jews were not permitted to visit the wailing wall, part of the First Temple that was built by the Jewish people 1,600 years before Muhammed was born. As a Jew, I can't support Obama's position for a few reasons:

(1) I can't remember a time when the world community forced a country that won a defensive war to return the strategic positions used to launch the attack.

(2) In the 1930's and early 1940's, property and belongings of hundreds of thousands of Jews living across the ME and Persia was stolen and they were sent to concentration camps and/or were killed. Israel is just a sliver of land analogous to U.S. Indian reservations.

Those who argue that we should open the borders because we stole part of Mexico would have a hard time arguing that the Jewish people have no claim to a sliver of land that holds our history.

There's always good news. Those of us that lost our sense of heritage because so many of those usually charged with passing it down were killed have an opportunity to take a look at the full court press Obama and the Democratic Party is waging against Judaism.

RR

Mexico has outlined a series of initiatives urging that the Mexican state be expanded based on its 1846 borders.

Only if they then demand that Spain pay them repirations for slaughtering the native Aztec and other Indian tribes that inhabited the land, and they inturn (the Spanish speaking Mexicans) give back the lands to the Aztec decendants or set up special areas for them (like the Punahu school in Hawaii for native Hawaiians). (Sarcasm intended).

In the 1930's and early 1940's, property and belongings of hundreds of thousands of Jews living across the ME and Persia was stolen and they were sent to concentration camps and/or were killed. Israel is just a sliver of land analogous to U.S. Indian reservations.

I lost family in the Holocaust as well (I'm not Jewish) but I didn't see anyone expropriating land for my people.

the full court press Obama and the Democratic Party is waging against Judaism.

No, this has nothing at all to do with Judaism. It's returning to a more normal, centrist policy with an ally. Right now the policy terms are whatever Israel and their lobby in Congress wants. That needs to change.

Obama confirmed what we Jews have known all along: When the Arabs lays down their guns, there will be peace. When Israel lays down its guns, there will be no Israel.

Please don't speak for all of "us" Jews. Your thoughts are worlds apart from mine. In order to have peace there must be a Palestinian state.

Good to see a bold move from this president after the weak, Israel-hugging attitude of the last president.

Obama is historically ignorant and insane to push this onto Israel. The only party that ever tried to reach a true peace is Israel. Accept reality folks: how can there be a peace process when all of Israel's bad neighbors want to see it wiped off the map? The peace process is finished. Israel must actively defend itself and put fear into her enemies. All those terrorists understand is a bullet in the head. And that is reality. Apparently, too many of you JT commenters are ignorant liberals who believe history began the day you were born. News for you: it did not.

Actually this article is not really about Israel, despite the headline. Naturally internally they will be very concerned about this speech, but Israel is a sideshow.

The problem is stabilizing the Arab world in a healthy and beneficial way, enabling them to build a peaceful base upon which to prosper. The Arabs need to focus on what they have and how to get the best out of it, and how to improve their image in the world, IMHO.

Hundred percent correct, goddog!

Accept reality folks: how can there be a peace process when all of Israel's bad neighbors want to see it wiped off the map?

You mean Jordan? Egypt? Even Saudi Arabia does business with Israel.

Obama has to make good on promises made to the people and groups that got him where he is today.Most of those groups are quite radical.But he is no match for Netanyahu.I hope they trade barbs.It's a pity they don't speak a common second language.(Obama in 2008:"I don't speak a foreign language.It's embarrassing!")Netanyahu would eviscerate him.

"the rogue state" If Israel is a rogue state, what is Syria?

Shifting the question does not negate the fact Israel is a rogue state.

"Among Republicans, former Massachusetts Gov Mitt Romney said Obama “threw Israel under the bus” and handed the Palestinians a victory even before negotiations between the parties could resume. "

Mitt Romney is a proven idiot, bottom line. Obama did not 'throw Israel under the bus'. What bus? A Palestinian bus? Thanks to the US carte blanche given to Israel until now to bomb Palestinians as a white phosphorus experiment and full military incursion in 'retaliation' for a few hobby rockets it's Israel that has all the high-tech 'buses' and what not. No, what Obama did was, FINALLY, do what US presidents have failed to do for a long, long time; attach some conditions to the current relationship (albeit not directly).

Obama should give them an ultimatum, and tell Netanyahu if he doesn't like it, no more aid... period.

I am just a dumb slow witted conservative who is trying to fathom the brilliance of including the Arab and Israeli conflict into his speech in supporting those Arabs that are getting killed resisting their current regimes. The dictators and autocrats they live under have always channeled the anger their local populations have towards them unto Israel instead and by default America for supporting her. The Arab spring is not directed toward Israel or America but the very regimes themselves. It makes no sense, no sense at all, that giving our support to those that are risking bullets for freedom are motivated or even care about Israel or Palistine at this point. They want them gone and want freedom, real freedom. This speech should be about our support for that. It is also a true and historical fact that democracies do not fight wars between each other. Israel is a democracy inside her borders. Here we have a chance to support real deomcratic forces in Syria to become a real democracy. She is also on Israel's borders. If that happens in Syria let Israel and Syria negotiate a real peace between them. Let the democratic forces in Eygpt mature and take control. Then after the big players in the region on her borders have worked out a peace, then bring the Palistinian, Isaeli situation to the table for a just solution.

We are failing here, we are failing big time by including the Israeli Palistinian issue with what the Arab street covets right now and Israel already has within her borders.... FREEDOM.

"Arab Spring"

Sure.

Amazing ! This president was only 8 years old and he doesn't know what went on that caused Israel to do to survive a fight between 3 countries attacking them ?

Leave Israel alone, they will not reward killers with the spoils of war.

"Israel is a rogue state"

Because their leaders are freely elected and they have taken the actions necessary for their survival?

My guess is that Obama is mostly fed up with Netanyahu and the part about Israel was his way of sending him the message. Overall I think Netanyahu has been counterproductive to the peace process and he needs to go.

My guess is that Obama is mostly fed up with Netanyahu and the part about Israel was his way of sending him the message. Overall I think Netanyahu has been counterproductive to the peace process and he needs to go.

Just my opinion, but is it not sad we have to guess about President Obama's motives? In foreign policy clarity is pretty much the standard to start with for what we really stand. Nttanyahu may be counterproductive in your opinion but maybe not so in an Israeli living in Sedot and dealing with rockets attacks from Gaza everyday. That is the citizen he has to answer to not us.

Sarge - no, because they invaded a neighbour, seized land and property and established an apartheid system, and possess nuclear weapons illegally.

"he gave little attention to Iran"

I bet Iran will get a lot　more attention in the future.

Coughalot: "they invaded a neighbour"

Those "neighbors" attacked Israel.

"( Israelis ) possess nuclear weapons"

Do you you have some proof of this? I'm not saying you're incorrect on this point, but do you have any proof?

"illegally"

Which countries legally possess nukes? LOL.

One has to wonder why the outrage all of a sudden? Why the outrage when Pres. Obama does something that Pres. Clinton and bush attempted? What makes Pres. Obama SO different?

From a story in The Atlantic:

I'm feeling a certain Groundhog Day effect here. This has been the basic idea for at least 12 years. This is what Bill Clinton, Ehud Barak and Yasser Arafat were talking about at Camp David, and later, at Taba. This is what George W. Bush was talking about with Ariel Sharon and Ehud Olmert. So what's the huge deal here? Is there any non-delusional Israeli who doesn't think that the 1967 border won't serve as the rough outline of the new Palestinian state?

So why now?

Taka

Taka313: "What makes Pres. Obama SO different?

He's made the Israelis madder at him than at any other U.S. president?

Let's not forget that it was Israel who was attacked in 1967. To the victor go the spoils. The Palestinians can move to Syria or Iran.

RR

One has to wonder why the outrage all of a sudden? Why the outrage when Pres. Obama does something that Pres. Clinton and bush attempted? What makes Pres. Obama SO different?

Taka,

Could you clarify why the difference between..... Pres. Clinton and bush in your post? I do believe they both held the same position.

RR: "The Palestinians can move to Syria or Iran"

Are you kidding, neither of those countries would take them in. Nor would Jordan.

RR: "The Palestinians can move to Syria or Iran"

Are you kidding, neither of those countries would take them in. Nor would Jordan.

No offense,

Did you ever hear of Palistinian refugee camps? Google it you will be suprised.

Israel has in force a military occupation of the Palestinian WestBank. That is where Israel gets a lot of its "free" fresh water from. It also wants to excise Jerusalem for itself. It allows illegal settlements in militarily occupied land on the Westbank. I am sure none of this is new to you JT readers. There seems to be a swing towards freedom and democracy taking over in the Arab world and the many dictators are finally being removed by the people themselves. That is a force for good. Obama rightly sees that the US should support these popular uprisings as a true road map to peace in the Middle East. He also understands Israel only pretends to be interested in peace. But true democracy and peace in Arab states would be good for world peace and stability and for the US. It would also mean Israel will be forced back into their old original borders by the World. Religious Hebrews would be better off using Israel as a holiday or study destination for religious purposes and residing in the Western democracies where they are safe. All Jews returning to Israel is fantasy by religious zealots. 50% of the world's 14 million Jews seem to have little interest in residing in Israel. 7 million Jewish Israeli's are probably not going to carry much weight in world affairs if the Arab world becomes genuinely democratic and it offers far greater business opportunities for the West tha little Israel ever will. That is just reality and reason.

Many past US presidents failed to do what Obama did today in order to maintain stability in the Middle East. Obama earned my respect.

Israel has to stop building housings in Gaza as they originally agreed to do so, and it should go back to Palestines immediately.

Netanyahu is saying the president 'doesn't understand things'. So since the US president is footing the bill, I say Israel abides by or mollifies US concerns in a realistic manner, or they can kiss their funding goodbye.

Perhaps Israel is so fond of literally s&'(ing on the hand that feeds them they have forgotten that it's a courtesy and a blessing they are supported, not a right... and especially not a god-given right given the godless things they do to others.

Why did terrorists attack the US on 9/11? It was in large part their ridiculous support of Israel to date while it committed heinous crimes on other ME nations. Obama is the first president in a while honestly seeking to address the issues of why and the options of how, instead of just throwing money at the richest target to sell more weapons.

Gosh...Kinda wonder if the folks would just quit trying tell the Jews to move back into its original 1967 backyard and let em do it when they feel secure enough.

Oh. that security thing seems to be missing.

One has to wonder why the outrage all of a sudden? Why the outrage when Pres. Obama does something that Pres. Clinton and bush attempted?

Probably because there is a considerable segment of the population that sees Obama as a crypto-Muslim, so they probably think he's an agent promoting a Muslim takeover of Israel...

While I'm not sure that I agree with Obama's stated position on this 100%, I agree with the tactic that sometimes you have to put out a proposal and allow both sides to comment just to get the dialog going. I won't fault him for trying.

Shame on Obama for throwing Israel under the bus. What he does not realize is, of course, that such brown-nosing of the muslim world will not gain him any sympathy there. All he will get is more demands.

Mr. Dog

" Isn't the U.S. stopping it's support of Israel a main point in Al Qaeda's demands? "

Yes, of course. But they don´t stop there. Even if Israel is destroyed and turned into another backward Arab corrupt dictatorship, the demands won´t stop. Nothing but the Caliphate and world-wide full Shariah will.

It is so pathetic of Obama to bash the only ally the West has in the Middle East.

Arabs don't want peace with Jews, they want to wipe us off the face of the map. Israel would be foolish to give up the Golan Heights, so that Syria or Hezbollah could shell every major city. Mr. Netanyahu is nobody's fool, and certainly not Obama's.

RR

So basically what Obama is saying is, that Israel should turn over the land it captured, and annexed, in exchange for nothing more then Obamas personal guarantee that the US will make sure Israel is safe. Considering that by even bringing this up, Obama reneged on US promises, makes you wonder, why should anyone take the word of Obama? Indeed, why should Israel give up the land in the first place? What do they get out of it? Ephemeral promises of peace from groups whose sworn reason for existence is its annihilation?

Let me put it another way. Would you do business with someone who threatened you, and demanded large sums of money and large tracts of land, in exchange for their personal promise not to threaten you anymore?

I chuckle when I read conservative posts merely repeating what the Republicans say.....Israel will still exist, he is just suggesting to give back some of the land and stop building illegal settlements in Palestine.

Israel should know better "being a democracy" and be the better person.

One major reason why the GOP supports Israel so blindly because of "religious" reasons.

And no, the US will still defend Israel if Palestine tries to invade Israel...but that does not mean the US will turn a blind eye to Israel's own wrong doings to Palestinians (illegal settlements).

smithinjapan: Why did terrorists attack the US on 9/11? It was in large part their ridiculous support of Israel

Your statements on this issue have become more fringe and bizarre over time. It's sad to watch you willingly give up self control and move into the Sushi area of debate.

Molenir: So basically what Obama is saying is, that Israel should turn over the land it captured, and annexed, in exchange for nothing more then Obamas personal guarantee that the US will make sure Israel is safe.

That's mostly the problem. If the Palestinians would disarm and renounce violence it would go a long way in solving it. Not overnight, but over time they'd build up the credibility that could make the 1967 borders possible.

sailwaind: Nttanyahu may be counterproductive in your opinion but maybe not so in an Israeli living in Sedot and dealing with rockets attacks from Gaza everyday. That is the citizen he has to answer to not us.

A comprehensive peace plan would end the rocket problem.

I would wait until what does "1967 border with mutually SWAPS" really mean? Asking a tiny country like Israel surrounded by hostile states to give up " captured territory" is very difficult for Obama as well as Netanyahu, I think.

I'm not Jewish, but anyone that understands mideast politics can see with a clear eye that Obama just absolutely doesn't care about Israel and what happens to it. This is such an insult to one of our biggest and most trusted ally. 78% of the liberal Jewish voters voted for Obama, although they make up 2% of the total electorate vote in the U.S., still that's quite significant. Surrounded by enemies that plot to kill you on daily basis and won't even recognize the sovereignty of Israel.

Nothing comes more natural to Obama than brown-nosing the muslim world. Will he get any sympathy in exchange? Of course not. Just read Ahmedinejad´s letter to America, or any statement from islamic leaders. Nothing but full-scale surrender under Shariah will do. Naturally, the distruction of the Jewish state will be accepted. But only as a given.

Easy for Obama to suggest giving away land that isn't his. Why not give the Hawaiian Islands back to the true islanders, the strip of Alaska that runs down the west side of British Columbia should really be Canada's and while on the subject of Canada what about that postage stamp that America claims called Point Roberts? What was the point of that when the U.S. children living there must get on a U.S. school bus and cross into Canada then drive 30 minutes to the U.S. to go to school because Point Roberts is so tiny it doesn't have much. Look it up Obama! Why not get rid of that postage stamp that costs your country more to have for what reason? Not the same reason as having Hawaii right?

smithinjapan:"Why did terrorists attack the US on 9/11?"

They hate anyone who does not share their medieval worldview.They said so. And they showed us in Madrid and elsewhere.

"It was in large part their ridiculous support of Israel to date while it committed heinous crimes on other ME nations."

I'm assuming 'their' in the sentence above means America's support for Israel. Israel is a democracy.It is secular.Unlike the surrounding nation states women have equal rights and gays are not put to death.That is why we support Israel.

"Obama is the first president in a while honestly seeking to address the issues of why and the options of how, instead of just throwing money at the richest target to sell more weapons."

Obama's administration sold the Saudi regime 60 billion worth of armaments last year.It is far and and away the largest deal of its kind,ever.

Israel has nuclear bombs that the US helped to develop. No one needs to worry about the safety of Israel. All that discussion is just empty rhetoric meant to cover for the brutal oppressor that is the Likud party running the government in Israel.

Even the majority of Israelis want to return to the 67 borders as they know that is the only path to peace. Just like the republican party in the US, the Likud party in Israel is run by religious nuts. That is what the republicans and the Likud party have in common.

Zurcronium: No, Israel has nuclear bombs made from weapons grade material stolen from the US.

And to bass4funk: Obama looks after the 7 million Jews that live in the US - that is what he was elected for. Israel has to look after itself and its own 7 million Jews if it wants Sovereign Nation Status. It would be wrong of Obama to treat Israel any greater than an Allie. Israeli's 7m Jews did not vote for him - many could have chosen to live in the US - then they would have had his protection.

zucronium:

" Israel has nuclear bombs that the US helped to develop. No one needs to worry about the safety of Israel. "

That is another incredicly naive statement. Yes, it safe to assume that Israel has nuclear weapons. But unlike its fanatical enemies, it is has neither threatened to employ them, nor can you realistically expect them to to do so.

6 millions Jews, who have created a modern democracy, surrounded by 600 million hostile muslim Arabs, living in oppressive backward hellholes, only hatred against the modern state of Israel.

And guess who the Potus and some of our pundits are rooting for.

FruitsBasket:

" I chuckle when I read conservative posts merely repeating what the Republicans say.....Israel will still exist, he is just suggesting to give back some of the land and stop building illegal settlements in Palestine. "

Land swaps have been part of all negotiations between Israel and the PAL, but the muslim Arabs have rejected all of them. Read up on history. For the muslim Arabs, nothing but the extinction of Israel will do.

That is why I said that if that happens, then the US will back Israel up.

But until then, Israel should not get away for violating international law on Palestinians.

Two wrongs do not make a right, after all.

It they would just add more hatred.

WilliB,

the victims of the Israeli genocide do not have nuclear weapons. They mostly have rocks. That is why three years ago when Israel illegally invaded Gaza over 1400 Palestinians were killed and only a dozen or so of Israeli soldiers were. Civilians were targeted with WMDs. The military equation is one sided. Israeli has nothing to fear with its ultra modern and nuclear forces. Nothing. All this threat talk is a cover for the horrible way Israel is treating its Arab citizens or those in occupied areas. That is all. Facts. This is what happens when religious nuts take over the government, like they are trying to do in the USA.

Finally some common sense and fairness in regards to the Israeli/Palestinian problem.

Many wrons have been connitted by both sides. Time to leave the past behind and move forward with a reasonably fair solution,

The current Israeli plan is nothing more than limited autonomy for palestinians on land which is marginal, whilst Israel takes the prime land, controls the majority of water recources and leaves the palestinians and second class citizens much akin the the homeland concept in Aparthide South Africa.

Obama looks after the 7 million Jews that live in the US - that is what he was elected for. Israel has to look after itself and its own 7 million Jews if it wants Sovereign Nation Status. It would be wrong of Obama to treat Israel any greater than an Allie. Israeli's 7m Jews did not vote for him - many could have chosen to live in the US - then they would have had his protection

That is not the point. The U.S. is a staunch ally of Israel and though, on the part you are to an extent correct that Israel needs to look out for itself in the long run, but be that as it may as an ally and being supported by a large Jewish liberal basis in the U.S. Obama does have a duty and an allegiance to protect a country that is a fry surrounded by Sharks. Not about Obama giving Israel preferential treatment, he is not, but when the little kid is being picked on by the big kid, you wouldn't intervene? I'm NOT saying that everything that Israel does is right, there is (especially politically) on both sides enough blame to go around.I am just tired of people thinking that Israel is being stubborn about this and that they really don't want peace or they are antagonizing the Arab world on purpose, that is so absurd. .

bass3funk,

you may be right about the people of Israel as a whole but you are not right about the likud party. They are hate filled racists that do not value life at all unless it carries an israeli passport. There is no defense for the crimes against humanity in the last decade plus, especially when Bush gave them the green light.

You are naive if you cannot see this for what it is, facts. And sadly this hatred is self consuming and counter-productive to the country itself. Israel is a rogue state because it wants to be. It uses state terrorism like OBL used his deluded footsoldiers on 9-11.

@bass4funk

but anyone that understands mideast politics can see with a clear eye that Obama just absolutely doesn't care about Israel and what happens to it.

I absolutely disagree with this. The problem with your argument is that there are more people than just Jewish folk living in this part of the world. You are also ignoring the fact that those people lived there for thousands of years before 1967. Obama is one of the first US presidents showing some real conscience on this issue. He is trying for a real solution here, because he is recognising the rights of the Palestinian people. And threy do have rights, bass4funk. I have been to Isreal, and I have seen the squalor, and desperation of the Palestinian refugee camps. I have seen the repression, and the anger that results from it. The pain, the disillusion, the frustration of being treated like a dog. I think that only someone who hasn't been there can write the kind of comments you do bass4funk. I applaud President Obama, I applaud his courage, and his attempt to address the human rights issues at hand here.

zurcronium:"the victims of the Israeli genocide do not have nuclear weapons. They mostly have rocks."

For future reference - genocide is when an attempt is made to eliminate an entire race. That is what Hamas wants to do.It is in their charter. Palestine's population has grown. To level the charge of "genocide" against Israel is ludicrous.Please try and get the most basic facts straight.

zurcronium:

Israel now has a choice, accept this challenge and live in peace or refuse and continue to be not very different from those countries that oppressed Jews during WW2.

So then after Israel agrees to go back to the 1967 borders and the Palestinian government (which includes Hamas) continues to try to kill and eject the Jews from the Middle East as is their stated goal what should the Israeli's do then? Just say the heck with it, give up their defenses and agree to be killed in droves? No one can seriously believe that Hamas and a large number of Arabs in the Middle East do not simply want to get rid of the Jewish people. All you have to do is listen to their media - it's no secret.

How about this instead. The Palestinians and the Jihadi's stop all terrorist or any other attacks against Israel. After a period of time when it appears that they have really changed and would like to peacefully co-exist, the Israeli's and the Palestinians can then sit down and negotiate a peace deal and a two state solution. The Israeli's have only taken territories due to attack by Arab states. Furthermore, the territories that Israel occupied where only enough to enable them to defend themselves. It's not as if the Israeli's ended up in the West Bank for no reason. It is not the stated goal of Israel to get rid of the Palestinian people. The same cannot be said for the Palestinians.

hmm when bush suggested the halt of settlement construction you CONS thought it was a grand idea. if Bush had given this speech there wouldnt be a dry eye in the house. Netanyahoo "the 1967 borders are indefensible" seems like you did ok defending them in 1967 even without our help. RepubliCONS before Obama speech: Obama is selling our children into slavery to the jews as commanded by his master Soros. It is time to let the jews take care of themselves. RepubliCONS after Obama speech: OMG! you just threw Israel under the bus. How could you do that to our staunchest allies in the region? the hypocrisy never ends. Please choose one. Obama is Soros' puppet, or he is an anti-semitic...you can't have it both ways.

RomeoRamenII at 09:50 PM JST - 20th May

Let's not forget that it was Israel who was attacked in 1967. To the victor go the spoils" sooo...russia should have kept all of europe and u.s. should keep japan? brilliant

President Obama's problem is that he knows very little about history - although I doubt he even cares.

In 1967, Egypt, Syria, and Jordan were amassing tens of thousands of troops and hundreds of tanks along their borders with Israel. They were clearly preparing an invasion. Israel simply did the smart thing militarily and ceased the initiative by striking first. Israel has won all of their defensive wars because they have had better leadership than the Arabs have had. If the Arabs were not planning to invade there would not have been invasion forces along their borders with Israel.

Israel learned that the narrow mid-section of their country could easily be cut off. They also understood that it was strategically more advantageous to defend their Eastern side the west side of the Jordan river and thus the West Bank became an Israeli territory.

If the Arabs had simply given up on the idea of destroying Israel and if they would have been tolerant of the Israelis, they would not have lost the 1967 war and the West Bank would still be a part of Jordan.

Obama could be a good negotiator, with his knowledge of both the Western (I'm including Israel here) and Islamic worlds. Yet, this problem is one of the most intractable I have come across. Even by restating the original thesis for peace, his emphasis has made many cry foul, and his lack of emphasis on Israel's security risks from hostile neighbours makes him appear biased.

He should remember (if he wants to be fair), that Israel only took this additional land for strategic reasons after having her existence threatened. I think Obama is wading into deep waters here, not sure if he can achieve any more than others who have tried. The secret is to convert the surrounding states to democracies, at which point peace with Israel will be preferable to them than treating her as the bogeyman, to target anti-regime frustrations onto.

Do not give in Israel.

the victims of the Israeli genocide do not have nuclear weapons. They mostly have rocks. That is why three years ago when Israel illegally invaded Gaza over 1400 Palestinians were killed and only a dozen or so of Israeli soldiers were. Civilians were targeted with WMDs. The military equation is one sided. Israeli has nothing to fear with its ultra modern and nuclear forces. Nothing. All this threat talk is a cover for the horrible way Israel is treating its Arab citizens or those in occupied areas. That is all. Facts.

When it comes to throwing rocks, yes, that is correct! When it comes to firing rockets into Israel and suicide bombers coming in from Gaza that are blowing up and maiming people then that is a completely different story all together. How about Israelis neighbors recognize Israel as legitimate country and try not to blow it up.

This is what happens when religious nuts take over the government, like they are trying to do in the USA.

It's more about safety than religion and by the way, if you take that route, then you can make the counter argument that the Arabs and in particular Hamas are religious nuts. In the states we have a President that is NOT a religious nut and look where it got us the last two years and its getting worse.

They are hate filled racists that do not value life at all unless it carries an israeli passport. There is no defense for the crimes against humanity in the last decade plus, especially when Bush gave them the green light. You are naive if you cannot see this for what it is, facts. And sadly this hatred is self consuming and counter-productive to the country itself. Israel is a rogue state because it wants to be.

Again, I am not saying that Israel is perfect nor that all of their actions are justified, but when you speak about crimes against humanity, you have to take into account that Hamas and many Arabs are bent on the total destruction of Israel and that's it. Pure and simple, black and white! Now if I know someone wants to kill me and is plotting it on a daily basis and wants to kill me and my family at any cost, then I will any and everything at my disposal to ensure the safety of my family and that means if I have to kill someone in order to save my family, then so be it. And most people would do the same. Not being naive, not having anything in my heart whatsoever about hate, just a realist. By the way, you are confusing Rouge with sovereignty.

@Tamarama

I have been to Isreal, and I have seen the squalor, and desperation of the Palestinian refugee camps. I have seen the repression, and the anger that results from it. The pain, the disillusion, the frustration of being treated like a dog. I think that only someone who hasn't been there can write the kind of comments you do bass4funk. I applaud President Obama, I applaud his courage, and his attempt to address the human rights issues at hand here.

Of course the Palestinians are people, no one is saying that they are not. Also you don't know anything about me or where I have been, so it is irresponsible for you to insinuate that I don't have any idea as to how life is in Israel or Gaza and the West Bank or what experiences I have. Let's just say, I know more then you might think.... As for Obama, I don't applaud him, it just shows how unqualified he is about mideast politics and how to lead this complexing issues, but what he is doing is alienating one of the most staunchest ally that the U.S. has and is not thinking about ANY future ramifications.

@Teachmeteachyou

You hit the nail on the head. Summed it up accurately.

@Teachmeteachyou - Right up to a point. Democracy won't solve this problem. The thing is that Isreal is right (up to a point), there would be reprisals against Israeli citizens if they pulled back now. Likewise Palestine is right that the situation is impossible and the Israelis are killing their people.

The middle east is like a dog fight and the solution is the same. If you stick your hand in or get too close you'll just get bitten. Stand back from a long way off and spray water on both parties, or in this case stand back and slap serious sanctions on both countries until they both cool off or kill each other off. Getting in close will just get you hurt.

Wolfpack,

The Palestinians and the Jihadi's stop all terrorist or any other attacks against Israel. After a period of time when it appears that they have really changed and would like to peacefully co-exist, the Israeli's and the Palestinians can then sit down and negotiate a peace deal and a two state solution.

I don't think many people can sanely support the Hamas position, but I see the extremism of Hamas as a symptom on the situation, not a primary cause of the lack of peace, and I think you are inverting history to suit your argument by suggesting as much. The additional occupation of territory in 1967 added insult to injury to Palestinian people and surrounding States, and the continued settlement of these areas, despite both US and United Nations calls to stop, simply inflames the situation. Unfortunately, Isreal are as much to blame for the current state of the situation as Hamas are, and they can't expect the Palestinians to extend them a hand of goodwill if they are unwilling to do the same.

Obama just signed the death knell for his chance of being a two term President and I am glad, the sooner we can rid of him, the better.

but I see the extremism of Hamas as a symptom on the situation, not a primary cause of the lack of peace...

Since the UN created modern Israel the stance of the Arab neighbors has been to destroy it. Hamas is dedicated to a position that has been in place for 60 years. Their position is not the result of Israeli treatment of the Palistinians. In fact, if you look at Hamas' treatment of Palistinians who don't agree with them you have to wonder who the civilized party is.

I do agree that Israel should not be building settlements in occupied Palistinian lands. There is a faction that is pushing for a "greater Israel" policy. This is the group that Bibi agrees with and will continue to be the problem.

@Tamarama:

The additional occupation of territory in 1967 added insult to injury to Palestinian people and surrounding States, and the continued settlement of these areas, despite both US and United Nations calls to stop, simply inflames the situation.

The occupation of the West Bank is due to a war - one precipitated by Arab states in 1967. Since then and before, the Palestinians have continuously engaged in and support terrorist acts against Israel. Once the Palestinians stops blowing up cafe's Israel will be able to withdraw and/or negotiate. Until then, I see no reason for Israel to reward terrorist acts by surrendering any advantage.

What inflames the situation is the never ending attempt to "wipe Israel off the face of the map". Why is it so hard for the Palestinians to just stop being terrorists? Every time the Israeli's try to hunker down and put up with the rockets, pizza shop bombs, and suicide vest explosions on buses, they just get played for suckers.

Why is it so hard for the Palestinians to just stop being terrorists?

I suspect the answer to that lays in the desperate condition Palestinian people living in the West Bank and Gaza strip experience on a day to day basis. If you repress people to that extent, for so long, they will react and rebel. I suspect that most Palestinians would tolerate Israel as an unfortunate reality of their modern existence, providing they didn't act as the respressing State and impose crippling sanctions, blockades and carry our Military incursions on a regular basis. Of course, Hamas and the Militants hiding away in Gaza complicates the situation, but you are wrong to suggest all Palestinians are 'Terrorists', and confude them for Hamas.

The occupation of the West Bank is due to a war

No. It's due to an Isaeli policy of importing impoverished, desperate Americans, Europeans and Africans with ridiculously flimsy claims to be "Jewish" and doling out what should be Palestinian land to them in return for their allegiance in a doomed attempt to maintain a Jewish majority within what they see as their territory.

Why is it so hard for the Palestinians to just stop being terrorists?

The Nazis probably asked exactly the same question about the French resistance, the British about the Fenians and the French about the Vietnamese. Inhumanity breeds inhumanity.

Oh please, the apologists for apartheid love repeating lies to themselves. None of you refute that Israel is without match militarily in the region and has nukes as well. There is no serious threat to Israel at all. And to the recognition point many, many times Arab nations has offered to accept Israel in return for a return to the 67 borders. Saudia Arabia offered such a peace plan over a decade ago. Israel refuses as its leaders do not want peace, they simply want to eliminate the Palestinians via blockades, bombs and weapons of mass destruction. Which in the end accomplishes nothing but generating more hatred.

The courageous thing to do for Israel is to accept Obama's offer now and focus on peace, not genocide. Will it happen, not likely as the Likud party is addicted to hate.

All of you posters so wedded to the current mess that goes back decades now, just want more of the same really. No courage, no guts, no imagination, no hope. Just more and more useless killing. That is what your posts are asking for. Many of you think Jesus will only return in this sorrowful condition, just like those folks in Oakland predicting the end of the world last weekend. Its all just make believe but sadly every day innocent kids are dying in the westbank because of your misplaced faith.

lucabrasi,

"The occupation of the West Bank is due to a war. No. It's due to an Isaeli policy of importing impoverished, desperate Americans, Europeans and Africans " Actually its due to Israels Arab neighbours repeatedly trying to wipe Israel off the map. The Arabs lost the land for the Palistinians by their aggressive actions and now the Palistinians are without their lands thanks not to Israel but Israels arab neighbours. When in history has a nation who is defending itself and accupied land in the process been forced to give it up. Sets a very interesting precedent, how far back can we take this new found fairness.

Obama got smacked down.Even newscasters like Andrea Mitchell say Netanyahu treated him like you would a schoolboy. Safe to say Israel will have "carte blanche" throughout Obama's floundering presidency.

I wonder how the state of Israel would go standing on it's own two feet - without all the arms, aid and massive funding from the U.S? I'd love to see what happened. I mean, what does that joint produce apart from hatred - dried figs? Just asking...

True history does not lie, the palestine-jewish conflict is in part due to the ugly effects of european anti-semitism.

If you want to understand the behaviour of Europeans and the overall impact they've had on Jews and the world at large, read up the history of Jewish folks in Europe and the Middle East. What problem existed between the Jews and Arabs in the Palestinian region before 1900? Why did Palestinians get into conflict with the Jews? What was the role of Europeans in it.

The world is a very enlightened place, you cannot take what is not yours by force and be expected to keep it. The land reform matter in Zimbabwe is a situational example of this. Slavery has fallen, colonialism has fallen, apartheid has fallen. Come on don't you see a pattern...

Look at the countries that voted recently (Nov 2012) in the United Nations in favour of a Palestinian state. Are these countries stupid?? Look at their own past history with Europe and you will understand why.

It's time we all woke up and stopped kidding ourselves. We cannot take property or land belonging to our neighbours by force and then be expected to keep it. Even Hong Kong was returned back to their rightful owner's after 99 years or so.