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Obama calls on Democrats to pass health care bill

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No deeming it passed. It's going for an up or down vote. Then the Senate. < :-)

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It will pass, its about time America made the steps to a first world health care system

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I predict this will pass.

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I predict this will pass too.

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The media sure love Obama and his health care plan. Every day the news can't wait to tell us "It's Just about To Pass," "It's one step closer to passing," "victory is in sight," etc etc.

Unfortunately, this bill is so filled with waste and inefficiency, and many of Obama's promises regarding health care reform have been taken out, that it's likely to do nothing other than make a bloated inefficient system more bloated more inefficient.

Good going Barrack.

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Sushi, if bamboohat's right, and this passes, is this going to be a disaster?

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Sarge - "Sushi, if bamboohat's right, and this passes, is this going to be a disaster?"

I don't think so. I think it's going to evolve into a fiscal disaster if it isn't enacted

Americans are getting older, sicker and poorer (the latter is happening very quickly.)

This recession is leading to millions of people losing their jobs and subsequently their health insurance. As the pool of insured people shrinks, health insurance companies will keep raising premiums to contain costs until the middle class is simply priced out of the health insurance market.

What happens then? Ordinary Americans, perhaps like your parents, won't be able to afford coverage and won't be motivated to take advantage of early, low cost preventative health checks. It doesn't take much to see that this will lead to people waiting until small health problms turn into full blown health crises that the government will have to pay (for example) $50,000 for, instead of the person - through their health insurance - paying $100 for.

Muliply the above scenario by a few million people and you're suddenly looking at MASSIVE cost for the government. We're talking unchecked, exploding health budgets at both state and national level.

These unexpected massive costs will also bankrupt more and more people and the social and psychological costs of that on individuals and families alone will be devastating.

That's an outlook for if this bill isn't passed.

If the bill is passed, for a start - let's be real honest here - it's $940 billion spread over a decade. That's only ($940/10 =) $94 billion a year.

That's cheap! Not expensive at all.

And as for Americans railing about this being an invasion of personal freedoms, etc. - they need to get over it. Do people go around complaining about personal freedoms being stripped here in Japan when they have their pension or health insurance deducted each month?

No, of course they don't. A bit of maturity please.

Once people get used to having health insurance amounts deducted, they'll quickly get used to it. They might have to cut back on movie nights out or flash wheels for the auto, but they'll get over it.

I cna imagine people who do complain about freedoms would have big problems if they visited Singapore, with its 10 basic rules.

Fact is, within a few days, you're used to it and they cease to be an overbearing problem.

Back to the bill. Isee it's main benefit is long-term cost containment, and encouraging more Americans to take preventative steps to manage their health, before small health problms turn into full blown massively expensive health crises.

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Conservatives who talk about this bill being an invasion of freedoms while not discussing the long term costs of not enacting this bill clearly haven't thought things through enough.

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Once people get used to having health insurance amounts deducted, they'll quickly get used to it

What you're more likely to see happen is people will start treating health services as "right" and not a service that they have to worry about paying for. Then you'll have people running to the emergency room for every sneeze and sniffle demanding to be seen because health care is their "basic human right," and they've already "paid their premiums."

All this will do is to over tax an already overtaxed system. Granted the system needs to be fixed, but handing over control to the U.S. government, an entity who has increased spending an average of a dollar fifty for every increase in tax revenue, this isn't such hot idea.

All will do is make a bad system worse. The government will get more power, and the average joe on the street will get less service.

I predict disaster, ever increasing deficits, an overall reduction in the quality of service, and a repeal of this law by whoever succeeds Obama as president in 2012.

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people will start treating health services as "right" and not a service that they have to worry about paying for

In one of the richest nations on earth, health care should be a right.

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Cleo, exactly.

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In one of the richest nations on earth, health care should be a right.

Health care is a necessity not a right. Just like food, shelter and clothing and we buy those based on we can afford. And necessity is the mother of invention and ingenuity is surely its father.

You make health care a right and you kill the very thing you think you are improving.......Better health care for future generations through innovation, technology and invention. Sad day for our future children. This is going to effect them and their quality of life in ways you can't even fathom right now once this atrocity of a liberal approach to reform health care passes.

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---What you're more likely to see happen is people will start treating health services as "right" and not a service that they have to worry about paying for. Then you'll have people running to the emergency room for every sneeze and sniffle demanding to be seen because health care is their "basic human right," and they've already "paid their premiums."---

What bamboohat is saying is that America can't handle it. I am inclined to agree. Nobody is excited about this health bill and many are apprehensive. They should be. It is business as usual. They should call it the Bush Health Program. It's an improvement (rolls eyes), but nothing has really changed.

The choice America had months ago was business as usual, OR radical change. Everyone rejected radical change, which effectively justifies the "mindset and rationale" of business as usual.

The current choice is business as usual, OR business as usual, with some pork and fiscal sweeteners, and a patchwork of minor regulations. Oh. It might pass. Oh. It will be declared a big victory. But we all know that it is a defeat. All the votes were effectively bought. Nobody has adopted a change in their viewpoint or acknowledged health care as a responsibility for everyone. America is still gimme gimme gimme. "Politics has triumphed", as David Stockman said of Ronald Reagan's promises to US. Meaning of course, that the real problems of health in America will be... in the words of Barack Obama....

"a can kicked down the road, a problem left for future generations to solve."

I make a prediction here and now: This administration will not solve any problem America faces. All solutions presented so far have been pursued in the same framework used by previous administrations that created the problems. And THAT despite a huge (now squandered) mandate that Obama entered the office with. The US is moving further along the usual lines of policy, and is neither backing up nor slowing down. That is true of economic reforms, the policies of war(s), health policy, environmental policy, energy policy, homelandTM issues, North Korea, Iraq, name it.

This prediction has legs too, because the Republicans have about 5% of the good ideas in Washington and have even less will and power to pursue them.

We are not watching a train, people, this is a rollercoaster. Up and down and left and right and a lot of excitement, but don't kid yourself, there is no driver, and you always wind up back where you started.

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Sail - "You make health care a right and you kill the very thing you think you are improving.......Better health care for future generations through innovation, technology and invention. Sad day for our future children. This is going to effect them and their quality of life in ways you can't even fathom right now once this atrocity of a liberal approach to reform health care passes."

That is crazy. The country you are living in has universal healthcare - is it really all that bad? I don't see any healthcare disaster in Japan.

Your unfounded fears are unnecessarily scaring yourself. :-)

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bamboohat

Unfortunately, this bill is so filled with waste and inefficiency, and many of Obama's promises regarding health care reform have been taken out,

I'm sure you'll explain what they are.

We're supposed to wait how long till the system gets fixed?

We're going to wait till___ to fix the system?

When will the states handle this?

When did the republicans say they'd rein in the insurance companies?

The republicans helped us with health care insurance when?

When were the republicans going to present their plan to help the uninsured? < :-)

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That is crazy. The country you are living in has universal healthcare - is it really all that bad? I don't see any healthcare disaster in Japan.

Your unfounded fears are unnecessarily scaring yourself. :-)

Because the Japanese system focuses on controlling costs first and foremost so it can provide universal coverage and does offer private plans above and beyond to those who wish to supplement their coverage. There are private hospitals in Japan that operate for a profit. They have found a good balance.

I told this so many times before but maybe it will finally click with you. The Republicans and all Americans know our current system is a bloated 50 state mess and needs to be reformed. The are two approaches to accomplish this. Control costs, lessen regulatory burdens, tort reform and other free market reform measures. Or the Liberal approach and create yet another massive Bureaucratic nightmare on top of the bloated mess we have now which is this horrible bill will do and accomplish nothing but higher taxes, wasted money and further debt.

It is my personal belief that Liberals really don't care at this point and actually want the current system to get even worse. I believe their long range thinking is this. Once the system gets so bad the people will eventually start clamoring of a universal single payer system, that has been the liberal dream for over a hundred years and now is the best chance they will ever have to accomplish the first step. So who cares how many Democrats are going to get thrown under the bus to support this come November,or the will of the American people who the majority hates this thing, it is all about the ultimate power grab.

There is one thing all Americans know, once you establish a Bureaucracy you can never kill it. I'll even give you a nice bone to chew on Sushi. I hated Bush for establishing the Dept of Homeland Security Bureaucracy, I thought just restructuring the CIA, NSA and FBI to better communicate with each other would have more than done the trick. Want to see how this health care reform bill is going to work, just ask any American how happy they are going to the Airport anymore since the Dept of Homeland Security and the TSA get created. Welcome to the health care airport of the future after this disater gets passed.

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sailwind, like I ask above, when were the states or the republicans going to do something about the health care system if Obama hadn't gotten elected and pushed for it? < :-)

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Health care is a necessity not a right. Just like food, shelter and clothing and we buy those based on we can afford. And necessity is the mother of invention and ingenuity is surely its father.

By accident, you hit the nail on the head. The issue is not health care, the issue is health care insurance. There is no food insurance, shelter insurance, or clothing insurance. People provide for those things according to their means, and those who can't get some sort of help (how much varies according to each country).

If you want health care to be like those other things, then get rid of ALL health insurance. If you don't want old folks kicking the bucket left and right because they can't afford a doctor, then have health insurance. And if the private sector can't provide health insurance without discriminating against customers (which they can't of course, otherwise they would, because the costs are too high) then get rid of them.

Or you can fight for your freedom to subsidize corporate insurance companies and buy nice yachts for their management.

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"Health care" is no more a right than car care, lawn care or home care. What on earth makes it a right? NOTHING is a right. How about if people start taking responsibility for their health by eating the right foods in the right portions and doing a little exercise once in a while. If this bill passes, it is going to make America's health care system even worse. And why should I, a person who takes care of his health proactively, subsidize the health care of some lazy fatso who eats nothing but fast food, never exercises and expects handouts. No thanks... I'll pass. It's high time people start looking after themselves. But here we go again with the Democrats promising goodies for future votes.

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I agree with yokohamarider.

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NOTHING is a right.

There's a guy you may have heard of named Thomas Jefferson who would disagree with you.

How about if people start taking responsibility for their health by eating the right foods in the right portions and doing a little exercise once in a while.

Fair enough. What if I do all of those things, and I still get sick from something unrelated to diet of physical activity. I guess I should just die, right?

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How about if people start taking responsibility for their health by eating the right foods in the right portions and doing a little exercise once in a while.

Huh? And healthy people do not ever ever get sick or have accidents or get old?

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yokohamarider, I agree with parts of your post in principle, but reality shows a growing majority of Americans simply cannot take responsibility for their health. The U.S. is - no malice intended - probably the sickest, most drug addicted nation on Earth. Expecting people to take responsibility for their health is admirable, really, but it's just not happening. That's the unfortunatea reality. If Americans are not going to take responsibility for their health, what are the options? The GOP approach is let people keep their freedoms to choose, etc. and keep the free market going.

But let's keep things real here - BOTH aspects of that are proven, rock solid failures.

The other option is govt. regulation. And since spiralling U.S. obesity, cancer, diabetes, drug use rates, etc. have proven without a shadow of doubt that most Americans are simply unable to responsibly manage their own health, at the moment, it's the best option there is.

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yokohamarider, your post is well thought out and written especially, the last sentence.

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The bottom line is, if Americans are allowed to keep their long-cherished 'freedoms,' current trends will simply continue and Americans will get fatter, sicker and even more reliant on a vast galaxy of pharma drugs. That's the reality. Maintain the health insurance status quo, and America will be sitting on a fiscal blowout timebomb. That's what the GOP is trying to pass off as a 'strategy.' It's not a strategy; it's a recipe for disaster.

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I'm wondering how many of those who oppose this bill on the grounds that it's an affront to their freedoms also say the same thing about their house and vehicle insurance? I'm guessing right about none.

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This bill is ¥94 billion a year. When are conservatives going to stop claiming it's too expensive, be honest and admit it's good value?

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Are there any Americans on this thread who are willing to state - for the JT record - that, given Americans' 'freedoms' to choose and make their own decisions, the the overall health of Americans has been generally improving? If there's no takers, what do current steadily worsening health trends of Americans say about their ability to make responsible decisions about their health??

Do nothing and Americans will make themselves sicker, boosting healthcare costs. Don't implement universal healthcare and healthcare costs and insurance premiums will skyrocket.

Considering this, government regulation is not only critical to put a lid on costs, it's looking damn near a standout choice.

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If there's no takers, what do current steadily worsening health trends of Americans say about their ability to make responsible decisions about their health??

Agreed, we need Government to make those responsible decisions instead and lead by example. Sure am glad Obama is leading the way, hope he isn't to stressed though, could lead to future health problems for him. He might increase his cigarette breaks.

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Sail, well Americans in general sure can't take care of their owm collective health, in fact they are failing dismally at doing so. Tell me Sailwind, what other realistic options are there? And using Obama's smoking habit as a reason not to implement this bill is desperation in the extreme, sorry mate. I realize when you have run out of arguments.

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Democratic leaders and Obama focused last-minute lobbying efforts on two groups of Democrats

Liberalspeak for bribing.

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Liberalspeak for bribing.

Does it mean something different in Conservativespeak?

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Sail, are you seriously defending Americans' Constitutionally-mandated rights to freedoms...to continue to screw up their health? I'm not clear why you think that is a good idea.

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Sail, are you seriously defending Americans' Constitutionally-mandated rights to freedoms...to continue to screw up their health? I'm not clear why you think that is a good idea.

Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. ~Mahatma Gandhi

Sums it up in a nutshell.

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So, it's ok to have the freedom to wreck your health, as millions of your freedom-loving countryfolk are doing???

Your argument is, ironically, another reason why government regulation is necessary, since Americans have proven without a shadow of doubt that they can't be trusted to responsibly manage their own collective health. I also know you won't be able to refute that.

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Sushi, you don't have to worry about our health, we'll deal with our health problems ourselves.

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since Americans have proven without a shadow of doubt that they can't be trusted to responsibly manage their own collective health. I also know you won't be able to refute that.

True and with that I think you would also agree with another idea that I just had following the reasoning of your posts. Another big factor that has driven up health care costs is also auto accidents, tons of carnage and good gosh how many E.R's are tied up dealing with that instead of treating an uninsured walk in guy with the sniffles.

I think since it is beyond a doubt that Americans have proven themselves they can't even responsibly drive cars, that we should also outlaw all private ownership of vehicles and only have Government provided public transportation instead. This will also create zillions of jobs and taxpayer funded infrastructure plus lower overall health care costs.

I'm sure once this idea passes Congress that the initial outcry will die down, as folks realize the enormous benefit and savings that has been incurred through the genius of Government control and regulation. Just like what is going to happen once folks get the full effect of Obamacare in their lives in the near future.

Ban all cars now and walk to work and get healthy America.

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Sarge and Sailwind, the blase way you treat the health of your fellow Americans is pretty disappointing, however it underlines that the 'Me first!' mentality is thriving in the conservative community.

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Here's the score - not a single detractor of this bill on JT has refuted my claim that Americans are collectively incapable of managing their own health. At the same time, not a single detractor of this bill on JT has presented a credible alternative.

Says everything.

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yokohamarider: And why should I, a person who takes care of his health proactively, subsidize the health care of some lazy fatso who eats nothing but fast food, never exercises and expects handouts.

So you're saying you won't get leukemia because you are proactive about it? Perhaps arrogance is the key to good health, ne.

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Are there any Americans on this thread who are willing to state - for the JT record - that, given Americans' 'freedoms' to choose and make their own decisions, the the overall health of Americans has been generally improving?

You've taken a very thought-provoking tack with your question. There is a form of insanity that has pervaded American life since the end of WWII (and we Americans thought we became masters of the universe). If I had to describe a root cause, I would point to this: corporate mentality.

It's the reason for the health care crisis in the first place, since hospitals become run as corporations and health insurance became a for-profit activity.

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SushiSake: Here's the score - not a single detractor of this bill on JT has refuted my claim that Americans are collectively incapable of managing their own health.

Alrighty. I believe you mentioned some things that were "spiraling" out of control in the US. Let's see. Cancer rates in the US are declining, so obviously you just made that up. Drug use in America is declining, so obviously you just made that up. Obesity rates in the US have leveled off, so obviously you just made that up. Diabetes is increasing, so you got 1 out of 4 right.

Why do you come here and make so much stuff up? Because it sounds good or something? I feel kind of bad because when reading your posts you seemed pretty excited, like you'd found a really good talking point or something.

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Are there any Americans on this thread who are willing to state - for the JT record - that, given Americans' 'freedoms' to choose and make their own decisions, the the overall health of Americans has been generally improving?

You will need to ask my "ObamaCare "Health" Lawyer" about that one. He is the only one I know that knows all 2,000+ pages of ObamaCare code. Me-->ObamaCare Lawyer<-->ObamaCare Dr<--->Insurance<--->Government

basically my ObamaCare Lawyer has full right over my healthcare and if he deems me healthy (legally) I just believe him until a judge tells him otherwise.

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The problem with U.S. far-left liberals is they have the political mentality of a 4-year-old child who needs Mommy Pelosi and Daddy Obama to hold their hand, wipe their nose, tie their shoes and tell them when to go to bed.

The rest of us are adults and we expect to be treated and respected as adults.

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Romeo, a growing number of Americans don't respect their bodies, which is a key reason America is probably the sickest nation on Earth. Your post illustrates a total disconnect between personal responsibility and reality. And, ironically, maturity. A responsible mature person would, taking a look at the stats, observe that despite their best intentions, Americans are not taking care of themselves. This is a self-evident fact. Then, instead of lashing out, that person would realize that if left unchecked, Americans will make themselves even sicker - another self-evident fact. Sometimes, not all Government intervention is bad because despite your claim, Americans do need outside help.

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Romeo, the status quo is clearly failing Americans. You didn't present a single alternative to address Americans' health issues, an area where they are so obviously failing to manage.

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SushiSake: Here's the score - not a single detractor of this bill on JT has refuted my claim that Americans are collectively incapable of managing their own health.

Alrighty. I believe you mentioned 4 things that were "spiraling" out of control in the US. Let's see. Cancer rates in the US are declining, so obviously you just made that up. Drug use in America is declining, so obviously you just made that up. Obesity rates in the US have leveled off, so obviously you just made that up. Diabetes is increasing, so you got 1 out of 4 right.

I know you're all excited because you think you've stumbled across a new and exciting talking point, but it's pretty obvious that you just made it up. Time to bury that propaganda and switch to something else?

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