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Democrats choose Obama to thunderous acclamation

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"set Obama up for a grinding general election campaign against Republican Sen. John McCain"

Obama's going to be ground up in that campaign.

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Sen. Hillary Clinton, in a classy move, just put forward the motion to have Senator Barack Obama selected as the Democratic nominee by acclamation. The motion was overwhelmingly accepted and Senator Obama has, in turn, accepted the nomination.

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Obama is promising he'll FINALLY make a speech with substance and not purely rhetoric. Granted, he's said that before, but his time, he means it!

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN2527236520080825?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews

What took him so long?

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"Barack Obama, standing where no black has ever stood before"

Isn't he half white?

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Sarge: There are no degrees of white in America, either you are or you are not. The fact that he is standing there now some 200 years after emancipation is simply an indictment on American society. It has exposed America's inherent backwardness and white collective reluctance, like a child with a learning disability who suddenly worked out a way to overcome it albeit 200 years later.

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He's got my vote. < :-)

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wow, no degrees of white???? GEEEEZZZZZZZZZUSSSSSS. btw, people are saying that he is weak on foreign policy, over the years we have been tough,gun-toting,gun-blazing America. where has it gotten us?. did we earn and got, or have the respect. NO WE DONT. so frankly, all this talk of Mccain having a tough stance against Russia is BS, what will he do...attack russia???

The only reason people will vote for that old "white" geezer is that he is WHITE. Obama has been talking "substance" all the time. BUT, still people didnt care. His "blackness" IS to blatant for those folk who hate and will continue to hate black people no matter what DEGREE of colorness they have.We are still a very racist country DEEP down, just today, people have ingenius ways to cover it up.BTW, he has my vote

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Emancipation for American slaves was in 1865 = 143 years ago. Also, Hillary is the better candidate and the emancipation of women is still in question.

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Damax;

I am sure that there are people whowill never vote for Obama due to his race. However, there are also others who will vote FOR him due to his race. Don't you think that will balance out?

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Sarge: "There are no degrees of white in America"

Obama is at least 50% black.

There goes Sarge's theory.

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This nomination of Obama as Democratic presidentai candidate is a significant event.

It moves regime change in the Bush White House one step closer.]

Damax6 - "all this talk of Mccain having a tough stance against Russia is BS, what will he do...attack russia???"

Good point. I think some posters on JT actually want to.

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The crowd is going wild at the convention. < :-)

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Sushi - I'm afraid you've got me confused with Everton2. Re-read the posts.

If Obama doesn't have at least a 10 point lead over McCain at the end of this convention, he's finished.

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Sarge, my apologies - you are right :-)

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No vote for Obama = racism

Oh, for several above posters, yeah Obama is black, but he is not a decedent of American Blacks...

After he is in the white house, I hope for the following next election: A Hispanic. I would expect blacks, regardless if there is a black running or even if Obama is going for re-election, to vote for the Hispanic. I'm a little pissed that of all the Hispanic politicians out there, Obama didn't even consider one but yet blacks pretty much expected (I tend to think took it for granted) Hispanics to vote in their guy. Next four years, I would expect the same. If they don't vote for the top minority at that point in time, it will equal racism on their part - plain and simple!

In the mean time, I can accept O having the white house. I can deal with Parliament Funkadelic taking over as the president's band, it is after about time we did change that national anthem.

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Hillary - "With eyes firmly fixed on the future, and in the spirit of unity with the goal of victory, with faith in our party and our country, let's declare together with one voice right here, right now that Barack Obama is our candidate and he will be our president."

Heh, that'll have the last remaining GOP war supporters scurrying for the exits :-)

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Kucinich gave another great speech.I wish I was from Ohio.

"We went into Iraq for oil!" "Gas will be ten dollars a gallon!" "Up with peace!"

"Up with prosperity!"

That last one was uncalled for though.

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How about that speach by Bill Clinton. Brought the house down. < :-)

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adaydream - It sure did! How about RADM Hutson and Major Duckworth? I will NEVER let anyone tell me the troops don't support Obama (not that I ever did let them!)!

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sushi:

"our"?

allinsky: I don't think Kucinich is allowed to run.

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Sarge,

I have no real idea who is going to win the election. However, I suspect that if Obama loses it will be because of his race and not because of any lack of substance or experience. Despite what williamsmith said about slaves being emancipated 143 years ago, blacks were not. Racism runs deep in America.

However, I don't think it's true that Obama needs a big lead now. I think that what he needs to do is to is to remind Americans where they are today, where they are heading, how that will not change substantially under McCain and how he wants to refocus American priorities. If Americans are clear about that and believe its important, they will vote in Obama and a more heavily Democratic Congress.

Additionally, it strikes me that McCain has very short coat-tails. If he wins, he is likely to be saddled with an oppositional Congress. Democratic candidates for Congress may help Obama more than McCain will help Republican candidates.

I don't think this is about Republicans and Democrats or conservatives and liberals. I think it is about focus. The current administration has the wrong focus and so, I believe, does McCain. We need to study how not to be a superpower and still create security for ourselves and our friends and even for those we call our enemies.

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I don't think Kucinich is allowed to run.

That is a given. The party has let him know that the days of old white dudes leading are over.Way it's gotta be.

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Sez - Obama has to have the thinnest resume of any presidential candidate in history.

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people are saying that he is weak on foreign policy, over the years we have been tough,gun-toting,gun-blazing America. where has it gotten us?

The only reason people will vote for that old "white" geezer is that he is WHITE. Obama has been talking "substance" all the time. BUT, still people didnt care. His "blackness" IS to blatant for those folk who hate and will continue to hate black people no matter what DEGREE of colorness they have.We are still a very racist country DEEP down, just today, people have ingenius ways to cover it up.

When I read about people saying there are not going to vote for Obama they usually include his middle name "Hussein" in capital letters, as though is was an offensive to have a name other than William or John or George etc... in America; in other words typical white Anglo-Saxon names.

Yes America is still one the most racist countries in the world. Don't believe me? Try playing any game on Xbox Live. You'll be called a N***er at least 15 times by 10 to 25 year old white boys and girls before the round is over. Pre-911 most racism was underground but post-911, President Bush has given everyone the OK to be blatantly racist under the disguise of nationalism. Chris Rock said it best here: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=auqRgzuLaK8. It this skit Chris Rock mentions that we need to more afraid of young white males than al-Qaeda. I would tend to agree.

It was also Bush who while serving as Gov. of Texas who showed no remorse and didn't even show up to the funeral of James Byrd: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Byrd_Jr. a black who horrendously slain (in Texas) by three white men who offered to give him a ride home (one of which he knew). When asked if Texas needed stricter legislation for hate crimes after the verdict, Bush serving as Governor said no. I think we know where Bush stands on racism.

Our beautiful country is being run into the ground by ignorance fueled by racism. Most people who say they won't vote for Obama only see a 'N***er in a suit' rather than a person who is trying to change our country for the better. And being from Delaware, I'm also happy that he has chosen Joe Biden as his running mate. Biden is as tough as nails and won't be afraid to drive Obama's agenda. That scares the shit of these racist heel kickers. Yes Obama is a young idealist but I say give it a try, because what we have now isn't working. Who cares what race he or Biden are. They are a better choice for our country simply because they are trying to do something different. Like the old saying goes, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it', well there's evidence that our country is not only broken, it has been smashed into little racial pieces and it's time to start rebuilding. I'm more afraid of what will happen to our country and the future of the world if Obama doesn't become President. Let's not forget that Bush is still losing the wars in both Iraq and and Afghanistan and now wants to go to war with Iran. Bush is stupidity at it highest level. Once again I leave you with a video from Chris Rock: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YrF6mG6Mx_8

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Shipthesong,

Not voting for Obama doesn't mean racism. Especially when there is real good reason it terms of his perforamnce of the job. But when you here answers like the link below, not mention the logic used you truly start to understand why people think race is the biggest issue. And these people like so many in denial are racist. It is just no longer a politically correct thing to be. People should take step back and really look at their reasoning behind their opinions. Like someone else has mentioned Obama's quest has really brought to the surfaces alot peoples darkest secrets or personality faults. Maybe a America isn't perfect!? And their way of thinking is wrong. Which why you get all the negativity by this small segment of the population that are comprised mostly of Caucasians.

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=ODaxZSz3Awg

I also don't think Blacks are automtically expecting Hispanics to vote for Obama. My experience with Hispanic community makes me believe that socially they lean towards Republican. Usually it the Republican machine that pushes this voting bloc away. When I say machine I mean the hardcore Republican nuts. Right now with all that anti-immigration rhetoric floating around. I believe the Hispanic community feels Democrats are on their side when it comes to this issue.

I do agree as a constituent typically we are never completely satisfied. We will always be demanding more of our political figures. It somewhat easy to satisfy one person's demand but try satisfying millions.

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I think this clip and the host was right-on. Even though this about one particular area. There are others area of the country just as ignorant. Both Black and White areas.

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=lc-KAd2KC9Q

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Whitehawk: "Obama is promising he'll FINALLY make a speech with substance and not purely rhetoric."

This from a McCain supporter??? Show me a single speech of McCain's that is NOT rhetoric, and focuses more (or at all, for the most part) on what he will do for the country rather than bombastic attacks on what others supposedly can't.

sarge: "Obama has to have the thinnest resume of any presidential candidate in history."

Given the US' past eight years, I'd say that's a positive thing. What's more, McCain may have more experience, but none of it seems positive, as he cannot seriously talk about it and what he/it will do for the country, only what Obama, again, SUPPOSEDLY cannot. In that sense, McCain has the thickest book of rewritten history and lies of any candidate, and so far the worst cases of flip-flopping, freaking out on people, and forgetfulness due to age (and, by the way, McCain has the OLDEST resume in history).

Change sometimes means not being entrenched in the same old rubbish that has kept your country riding into the ground for the past 8 years (and don't kid yourself into thinking it hasn't been!). McCain wants to continue that trend, while Obama wants to heal the country and give the US a better reputation around the world... or at least, restore it to what it was before Bush came in. As such, a 'lack of experience' in the same old, tired politics is not always so bad a thing.

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rumsfeld, cheney, the whole lot of them had been in government since the 70s. When they took over the crowed about their experience as opposed to Clinton. Two wars later, a broke government, a near depression, america's fall from grace worldwide, katrina, etc, etc, etc we see just how much that experience has contributed to the bush trainwreck administration. Problem is that most of the bush people are still living in the 70's. mccain is living in the 1950's.

Smart beats stupid everytime even if stupid has a longer resume.

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jwills: Not voting for Obama doesn't mean racism." I know that. I was just commenting on many posters who feel that could be no other reason. I don't like McCain at all but I won't say I like Obama that much better. And, being what I am, why can't I be like a black person and vote for my own kind if that is what things are being based on?

"Obama's quest has really brought to the surfaces alot peoples darkest secrets or personality faults." Yeah. I head about several black republicans talking about switching sides to support Obama, even though they have been against nearly everything he stands for.. Race conquers all.

Maybe a America isn't perfect!? And their way of thinking is wrong. Which why you get all the negativity by this small segment of the population that are comprised mostly of Caucasians." Well, I don't know if people are blind, but I see a whole lot of white faces screaming for Obama and don't know if you know or not, but he sure as hell wouldn't be riding that high if Americans are as racist as two particular posters claim.

I also don't think Blacks are automtically expecting Hispanics to vote for Obama." Oh, yes they are! Look around on more blogs. Why many Hispanics are concerned about Obama is religion. Most of us at voting age are somewhat conservative - against abortion, etc..

My experience with Hispanic community makes me believe that socially they lean towards Republican." No, not at the moment. Since immigration became an issue, many Mexican American are leaning towards Dems but Cubans and older Puerto Ricans usually lean to Repubs. so, I gather your are from the East Coast.

"Usually it the Republican machine that pushes this voting bloc away. When I say machine I mean the hardcore Republican nuts. Right now with all that anti-immigration rhetoric floating around. I believe the Hispanic community feels Democrats are on their side when it comes to this issue." No, this is where you are wrong. first of all, it was McCain and Bush basically opened the gates and addionally, being Hispanic does not make you an immigrant and there are more of us who are against Illegal immigration than you know but the English language media outlets tone us down.

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Sarge,

Obama's resume? So what? We do not elect a resume. We try to elect a leader. Leadership is vision, judgment, energy and resolve and Obama has all of those. (I think McCain has judgment, energy and resolve, but I'm not so sure about the vision thing and I disagree with his judgment.) Additionally, Obama has enough political savvy to secure the nomination and that was no easy task.

But the issue of resume is interesting. Under the scientific method, we formulate a hypothesis, and design an experiment to test the hypothesis. Under the political method used by most voters, we formulate (or find that we already have) an opinion and then collect data to support that opinion. We pretend to weigh, but do not.

Voters do not care about resumes. They are guided primarily by their prejudices and by their assessment of whether their lives will be better or worse under this or that person's administration. But the assessment is often biased by their prejudices. This is why I say that for Obama to win this election he has to make it clear that an Obama government will focus America in a direction which will make people's lives generally better.

McCain will hit him with his thin resume, but that is basically all McCain has--that, the weary bogeyman of terrorism and the unspoken specter of race. People will never believe that McCain represents change in any way. Obama is a visual symbol of change. If Obama builds a slow and steady case for why he can deliver where McCain cannot, he will probably succeed no matter what the polls say now.

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Sez - With Obama's resume, he couldn't get many management jobs, much less the job of leader of the free world.

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Sarge, That's it?! A cheap one-liner? C'mon dude, you can do better than that! Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war, baby! Especially since an American you obviously hate is gonna be your new President this January, freely elected by the American People. Don't let us down now! xD

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Dude - It must be frustrating to be surrounded by people who support McCain. Anyway, dream on!

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"Democrats choose Obama"

They had their chance to dump this guy and they blew it! Better luck in 2012, Democrats!

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I wouldn't know; we support Obama. After all, isn't supporting the new C-in-C part of our duties?

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2012! Fabulous idea, Sarge! We'll just RE-elect Obama then! Thanks for the tip!

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Very nice posts, SezWho, on this and the Russian thread.

People will never believe that McCain represents change in any way. Obama is a visual symbol of change.

True, but I think Obama's a symbol of change not an agent of the real deal. This is because, at heart, the actual aim of candidates and their advisors is continuity, specifically to keep the institutions which define contemporary Washington intact and through them move policy in a specific direction. (Reagan never abolished the Depts of Energy and Education as he promised during his campaign in 1980.)

The candidates who decry the influence of money in politics are usually the most adept at courting well-heeled donors. Arnold Schwarzenegger, for example, was elected Governor of California in a special election in 2003 in part because the embattled incumbent never met a special interest he didn't want to line his pocket. Guess what? Within a year Arnie had outdone his predecessor's fund-raising record.

Whoever moves into the White House in January will confront the same problem, namely the glaring disparity between what Americans want government to provide for them and what they are willing or able to pay for. Out of that the new administration will have to fashion a set of policies which may not be as different as the obsessive media coverage over who will win would have us believe.

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"After all, isn't supporting the new C-in-C part of our duties?"

I agree. Obama should be supported in the same manner of respect that The Left now supports George Bush.

You're right.

USAR

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why do people mixed with black or are black have to CONSTANTLY have to "prove" themselves for people to be convinced they are "qualified" enough. If obama had the resume, some of you STILL wont be convinced he is suitable for the "white house". Obama does NOT need a BIG lead in the polls. We know him before,during ,and after the primaries, what else do we white people need to be convinced.

When Mccain was Obama's age, did he have experience. NO!!!. back then running for prez was FAR off Mccain's mind. Now his camp has on all out negative campaign blitzkreig. That is all he can do, go negative...i dont see why non black people are complaining that blacks are just voting because he is black. THE FACT of the matter is that we white have vote "white" for over 230years. No matter if candidate has a stellar resume if he was NOT white....forget about it, if he/she is white then it was alright....stop with the BS, deep down it bugs people that mixed candidate will sit in the white house.....woooooo now we whites are in fear of over 230yrs of racism may come back and bite us in the hynie ....what is the fear about, because it is fear, fear of retribution. Do people think Obama will let the black run amok,and get even with us??? GROW UP!!!

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"...what else do we white people need to be convinced...?"

Spoken like a true high school sophomore, my young friend.

If you put up Condi Rice, I'm sure a number of white conservatives will vote for her as a known talent already. Or Alan Keyes, or...

As for Barak Hussein Obama? At least he has style, if no substance or experience at anything.

USAR

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Ronin - well, most of troops I know are Democrats, and we follow the orders of GWB, whether we agree with them or not. That's our duty. Thing is, it's gonna be so much easier with Obama, a C-in-C we WANT to follow, not one we feel simply obliged to follow.

Big diff, ne?

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marvenp at 11:51 AM JST - 28th August

people are saying that he is weak on foreign policy, over the years we have been tough,gun-toting,gun-blazing America. where has it gotten us?" True, but what would it be like now if the cowboy didn't go into Iraq and gotten us into this mess? Don't you think a different song would be sung?

The only reason people will vote for that old "white" geezer is that he is WHITE." Obama is being propelled by whites, get your sh** straight. Even if 100% of blacks voted for Obama it really wouldn't make a difference. Time understand how things are working out.

Obama has been talking "substance" all the time." No, he hasn't. He has been caught contridicting himself, protected Rev. Wright and Jessie.

BUT, still people didnt care. His "blackness" IS to blatant for those folk who hate and will continue to hate black people no matter what DEGREE of colorness they have." I have a funny feeling you are talking more about yourself. See, in the real world, the world outside political correctness, hate is hate no matter what color the hater is..

We are still a very racist country DEEP down" Ok, I catch up with Spanish media a lot.. Why don't you? got something against Spanish speakers? well, you will be very surprised at what you hear. And since Slavery was brought up, you would learn the America was the first country to ban slavery while Mexico was still in play until the 1920's yet blacks still hug up them.. Or does it only matter if the slaves were black and the master were white?

When I read about people saying there are not going to vote for Obama they usually include his middle name "Hussein" in capital letters" So, don't we all refer to Dick Cheney as a dic*, "in other words typical white Anglo-Saxon names." I don't have one of those and when I finally run, I wouldn't use that excuse.

Yes America is still one the most racist countries in the world." Please inform us of a place that has as large minority mass that is less? Brazil? No. Columibia? No! South Africa? Not if you are non-black..

Don't believe me? Try playing any game on Xbox Live. You'll be called a N***er at least 15 times by 10 to 25 year old white boys and girls before the round is over." What game has this?

Pre-911 most racism was underground but post-911" Really? How?, "Bush has given everyone the OK to be blatantly racist under the disguise of nationalism. Chris Rock said it best here: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=auqRgzuLaK8. It this skit Chris Rock mentions that we need to more afraid of young white males than al-Qaeda. I would tend to agree." Well, so why is today we see white and Hispanic kids getting beaten and killed on buses, bus stops, subways and even a 93 year old man getting his butt kicked in by several blacks who could have just taken the car in his car as that was what they were doing. Did you go to the funeral or had any care for the victims of the Wichita massacre? Did you feel anything for the people on the LIRR (25), The black guy police office who killed his white girlfriend? Or the black sheriff who shot at point blank range a Cuban kid from my old neighborhood? No, someone like you probably cheered them on as I see your posts are very very very one sided with nothing in between. Its people like you that would make white or non-blacks (ready "why I hate black people" by Chinese American Writer) run from Obama. Exporting rap videos portraying a thug life, holding a gun, talking nothing about anything except being able to beat a person down. Glorifying a jail culture and then hve the nerve to say blacks are being stereotyped un-fairly.

And being from Delaware, I'm also happy that he has chosen Joe Biden as his running mate. Biden is as tough as nails and won't be afraid to drive Obama's agenda. That scares the shit of these racist heel kickers." You just said America is a racist country, and look who you are now cheering...

Yes Obama is a young idealist but I say give it a try, because what we have now isn't working." You made sense for once on that one.

Who cares what race he or Biden are." You do.

They are a better choice for our country simply because they are trying to do something different. Like the old saying goes, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it', well there's evidence that our country is not only broken, it has been smashed into little racial pieces and it's time to start rebuilding." When was it together? I'm more afraid of what will happen to our country and the future of the world if Obama doesn't become President."I'm still worried but less worried about Obama.

Let's not forget that Bush is still losing the wars in both Iraq and and Afghanistan and now wants to go to war with Iran." I'll roll with you on both wars, but I will say that it is more Iran that wants the war with America, especially now that she is weakened by these two wars.

" Once again I leave you with a video from " can't get vids on this thing.

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USAFdude, well most of the combat troops I know are conservative in philosophy and politics. That's probably the difference between troops who put their lives on the line and the Air Force. One group puts their lives on the line as a matter of daily survival and the other gets to be philosophical about the whole thing.

All military are required to support the mission; they are not required to voice support for someone they don't believe in.

USAR

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So now you're dissing the entire AF, huh? Wow, glad I didn't deploy with you! I suggest you educate yourself a bit about AF activities in Iraq and the central front, Afghanistan.

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Dude - You expect us to believe the vast majority of the members of your Air Force unit support Obama? Give us a break!

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USARonin at 02:03 PM JST - 28th August

"...what else do we white people need to be convinced...?"

Spoken like a true high school sophomore, my young friend"

No, spoken like a weathly white kid, private school and all that who would never ever step foot in a black neighborhood by himself.

Here is what I want to know: Obama is running up the scores by who? White people. For crying out loud, whites are voting for Obama in the millions - millions and some little punk white boy has to come out with his chin up and start talking fairly tales. The guy is going to win not because blacks are voting for him but because whites are going to vote for him. Get off the race kick for a bit and get down to why he should lead the country. For the moment, the only reason I'm going for him is because I like him better than McCain - I don't know of have any other reason.

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Yo, Skippy, I didn't bring up the "race" issue. Your high school friend did.

There's a lot to be said for "white guilt" and folks who think a "black" president would be really cool.

Me so sad.

USAR

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marvenp

America is still one the most racist countries in the world

A black man is on the verge of being elected the next president of the United States and the leftists are still trying to sell this nonsense. It's the left that perpetuates racism (or at least the illusion of racism) in order to stay in power. If you really want to hear someone who promotes racism, listen to Obama's "spiritual mentor" Pastor Wright. He's made a small fortune selling racism.

The only reason people will vote for that old "white" geezer...

The party of compassion once again demonstrating their sensitivity to the elderly.

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"Obama should be supported in the same manner of respect that The Left now supports George Bush."

Uhm, heh, it 'aint just the left ramen old buddy. In 6 months time finding an American that will admit having voted for Bush Co wil be like finding a fart in a hot tub.

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Madverts, ol' chum, don't you find it horrific from your political philosophy that Bush's current rating with the American public is higher than the Democratic Congress which has held it for some time?

This is good.

USAR

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USAronin: I didn't post that you were. I was just using your quote to expand on it. I was agreeing with you, not the little frightened white boy.

Helter: "A black man is on the verge of being elected the next president of the United States and the leftists are still trying to sell this nonsense." Noticed how the left left a woman and a Hispanic in the dust? Basically just kicked the lady to the curb and they didn't even notice Richardson.

But they want to be called the party of all.

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Heleter - you're chasing a long lost cause - Pastor Wright is old news and yes, McCain IS old, whichever way you look at him.

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"I was agreeing with you..."

Ai, yai, yai...

Sorry! Gomen nasai! Meonhamnida!

=O

USAR

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Heh, both houses were seized back from the disaterous republican tenure fairly recently, milado. Methinks that train-wreck admin had something to do with the low approval ratings. Heh, and then there's Dick's approval rating...

Once you Yanks have elected old Barrack Hussein, I expect the approval ratings to improve.

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"Pastor Wright is old news"

Yeah, but he and Bill Ayers will continue to haunt Obama.

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"Once you Yanks have elected old Barrack Hussein, I expect the approval ratings to improve..."

Yes, Madverts, and then when Obama fails to deliver on all this change and love you can still fall back on blamin' the Republicans just as you're doin' now with the Democratic Congress.

Good strategy.

USAR

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All I see in here is jealousy and envy for President Obama. C'mon all you Barack haters, Get over it!

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"Jealousy"? "Envy"? "Hate"?

I'm missin' somethin' here.

And what country has this person you refer to as "President Obama"?

I should keep up more with current events.

USAR

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Anyone claiming that the next incumbent hasn't got a vey difficult task ahead of him picking up the pieces after the bush trainwreck is living in La La Land...

...heh, then again...

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USARonin, one of the fundamental differences between the 2 candidates is that Obama wants to get America OUT of a war, whereas McCain wants to continue the same old failed war policies of GWB while having little idea about strategy and even less of an idea about how he's going to pay for it.

You can go on about Obama all you like, but this, I believe, is one of the core reasons many Americans will vote for Obama.

I read recently that - considering Bush has completely squandered pretty much all the record high post-911 popularity he once had, he is now enjoying record low popularity in no small part because apparently there is now approx. 1 in 4 Americans who know or are related to someone who has been either physically or mentally affected by the botched GWB/neocon invasion of Iraq.

Talking wars, you will of course be aware GWB has signed on to a withdrawl date of US forces from Iraq - a clear move away from McCain's non-existant Iraq strategy towards Obama's get-out deadline strategy, and in news just out this morning, the top Marine is saying he wants to move up to 15,000 Marines out of Iraq and into Afghanistan - which is exactly what Obama has been advocating - that Afghanistan is the central front in the "WOT."

Clearly, Obama has far, far better judgement than McCain, despite his "thin resume", "lack of experience" and good looks.

McCain can go on about his "war experience" all he likes but let's face it - the only "war experience" he has involved a war that took place nearly 40 years ago that was completely different from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

He might have experience, but what value does his experience have if he doesn't exercise it wisely, which he clearly doesn't?

He may have worn the uniform, but really - so what?

Obama clearly is streets ahead of McCain in terms of nous, wisdom and good judgement.

Obama '08!

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Madverts, see, you've covered your end very well.

No matter what happens, no matter the outcome, it's not your guy's fault.

Gee, I wish I could live in that world.

But not really.

USAR

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"Good looks"?

Your TV reception must be much better than mine.

USAR

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USAR....,

"Gee, I wish I could live in that world."

But you do live in that world. You're a confirmed bush supporter, as the last 8 years of your posting history proves.

Heh, but nice try though.

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And r....,

I said "anyone" picking up the pieces after Bush. Heh, I submit Jesus Christ himself would end up looking a miserable failure coming on stage after the bush...

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Sushi, this so-called "war on terror" is goin' to go on past your lifetime and mine. Long after we're not even a memory, it will go on.

There will be no "world peace"... ever. Not now. Think nuclear, biological and chemical and you'll know I'm right. It's a brave new world. Accept it.

If you disagree with current strategies, fine. You may or may not be like many who expect immediate gratification in their lives. If you think Obama's gonna make the world a better, more decent, safer place... or whatever... It ain't gonna happen.

I don't know what the best answer is. And I ain't gonna fake it like Obama or any other political hack. And hack, Obama is. Check out his Chicago politics.

USAR

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Madverts, funny that an atheist would cite Jesus to make his point. You know what Shakespeare said about Satan usin' scripture.

From your camp, you also believe none of this ultimately matters. None of it. It's all meaningless. Right?

USAR

Moderator: Back on topic please.

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Madverts, a realist would support a conservative philosophy over a liberal one any time.

It's part of growin' up. Many people achieve it.

USAR

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SkiptheSong,

McCain and Bush were trying to open immigration but that was simply for the sake of re-election. That is a very important voting bloc especially for them two considering they are from Arizona and Texas. Not the same for the rest of the party. Check how they voted in Congress against Bush on those issues. Republicans have been pushing them away. How do you explain the 700 ft of wall being put up along the border?

AA don't expect Hispanics to vote for Obama but do believe they are getting shafted just like they are by the Republican party. And it is their best interest to vote for him. I honestly believe AAs would vote for a Hispanic if it is in their best interest. Wouldn't anybody?

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Ronin - you think McCain's got a better clue than Obama?

McCain in my view is just going to follow in GWB's shameful footsteps and just keep beating the hornets nest.

I can't think of a simpler portrayal than that.

"I don't know what the best answer is."

Seems like your candidate McCain doesn't either.

"Sushi, this so-called "war on terror" is goin' to go on past your lifetime and mine."

Yep, and we can all bow down and express our deepest gratutude to bush and the neocons for taking it global......

I'm just glad Obama wants to focus on the real problems facing the US electorate - the foundering economy.

McCain, on the other hand, seems to have convinced himself he is going to take over bush's self-appointed mantle of "Saviour of Iraq' and waste trillions more dollars America doesn't have to fulfil this role.

McCain is a modern day nutcase and a danger to America to boot!

It's going to be fun watching Obama stop him dead.

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In all fairness, I thought Hillary would be the Dem nominee, but there you have it. Either way, bush's tenure has been a disasture, something I see your not trying to dispute - McCain has voted with Bush Co on just about everything, he's a Republican, and he's too old so I don't see the wisdom of carrying on the disaster for a further four years...

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Madverts, I don't see Bush as a "disaster".

Think of the mess we'd be in if Kerry or Gore had been president on September the 11th. Phew. That was close.

I pretty much dispute everything you have to say, including your view of reality.

And so it goes.

Ted

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jwills79,

McCain and Bush were trying to open immigration but that was simply for the sake of re-election." Well, you got me on intelligence.. never thought, not for one second did I ever think a politician was going to do something just to get elected... I am not praising them at all... First of all, Bush has a lot of big family in Mexico and a lot of deep roots have existed for the Bushes for a long time there - getting a clue? But, if you think Obama wouldn't do something just to get voted and do what is good for him, you are dreaming. Politics is a disease!

That is a very important voting bloc especially for them two considering they are from Arizona and Texas." No again. Most of the Mexican Americans, ones who claim it were 1. born there as were their generations and 2. most of them don't have immediate family in Mexico and 3. Most Tex-Mex are very much against the current form of immigration. Now, that is two groups out of many amongst Hispanics. We are spread out just as much as European Americans are.

Not the same for the rest of the party." Look, that party has gotten smaller and smaller over the years I am sure. As it gets smaller, its principles get stronger and their principles I believe is Christians, belief in America and its system and don't take kindly to outsiders mostly because the outsiders themselves don't take kindly to outsiders either.

Republicans have been pushing them away. How do you explain the 700 ft of wall being put up along the border?" stop, start, stop, start, stop, start, stop, start,stop, start, stop, start,

AA don't expect Hispanics to vote for Obama but do believe they are getting shafted just like they are by the Republican party."

Yes they do. Listen to some Spanish talk shows or show with large Hispanic audiences and you will hear it. If you are in the US watch the TV stations for Latinos.

And it is their best interest to vote for him." Look, I am voting for the guy, but I refuse to be sold on him through this politically lied about alliance while many of their gangs are shooting us up in Miami, Newark, and L.A as well as keeping us out of minority based civil contracting bids.

"I honestly believe AAs would vote for a Hispanic if it is in their best interest. Wouldn't anybody?" Not over their own kind I don't agree with you. Why didn't Richardson garner any, not even a little, black vote?

Can anyone who is African American let us know if they voted for a white guy over a black candidate who really seemed like they could make a difference - just for the record.

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Obama! Yes we can! Obama! Yes we can! Obama! Yes we can!

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Sarge said:

Sez - Obama has to have the thinnest resume of any presidential candidate in history.

How is Barack's 7 years in the Illinois Senate and over 3.5 years in the U.S. Senate compare to the Republican candidate for president that served 8 years in the Illinois House of Rep. and only 2 years in the U.S. House? I would have to say that Barack has more experience because he served in the upper house in both cases and longer in the federal position. Of courser he also served more total years.

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Anything is possible in America. Obama making it to the top of a national party's ticket is a wonderful example of how great this country is. Whether he has the right stuff to actually become President remains to be seen. Anyhow you can rank his current sucess right up there with former Sec of State Colin Powell and current secretary Condi Rice.

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Almost didn't bother clicking on the comments because I figured it would be the same 5 right wing guys that keep changing their handles every week and just try to be as offensive as possible without saying anything, however to my great surprise none of those guys are here and for a very long time the posts in the comments section are worth reading. Good posts everyone. Watching an American election is the best reality show there is. I was kind of hoping Obama would win before he voted for the FISA thing. Obama still might not win but I'm sure the dems really do love him because its going to be a Democratic year and Obama will bring out a lot of extra voters who will probably vote for all the Democrats on the ballots.

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Sarge wrote: "Dude - You expect us to believe the vast majority of the members of your Air Force unit support Obama? Give us a break!" Yep, it's true. But, by all means, deny away; it changes nothing and gives us something to chuckle at.

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a realist would support a conservative philosophy over a liberal one any time. It's part of growin' up.

It's also part of ending one's education.

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a realist would support a conservative philosophy over a liberal one any time. It's part of growin' up." That depends on what conservative agenda we are talking about. I am sure if you lived in Saudi Arabia or any similar place, you wouldn't say that.

It's also part of ending one's education." That depends on a lot too. There are some left wing types who about their left wing agenda with the same viciousness that a right winger may.

I couldn't live in a place that was totally one and not the other.

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Like others, I was impressed by the appearances of Tammy Duckworth, CSM Michele S. Jones, Lt. Gen. Claudia Kennedy, US Army (Ret.) and Rear Admiral John Hutson (Ret).

The vast majority of returning Iraqi veterans who have run for office have run as Democrats.

Another interesting trend is when so many Western states -- Wyoming, Montana, Nevada, Arizona, etc. Are electing Democratic governors and sending Democrats to Congress. This can only serve to turn around Congress's abysmal ratings -- declining through years of Republican mismanagement.

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Yabits: Would you be happy if the republican party disappeared and thus leaving only the Democrats as the single party?

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There are some left wing types who about their left wing agenda with the same viciousness that a right winger may.

LOL!! I do not include "left wing types" as liberals, or anyone who "spouts an agenda."

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Would you be happy if the republican party disappeared and thus leaving only the Democrats as the single party?

Absolutely not. Unfortunately, the Republican Party of people like Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhower, Robert Taft Jr., Bob La Follette, George Norris and Lincoln Chafee has largely disappeared -- destroyed from within. I am always hopeful that they will someday return to their senses, and their roots.

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yabits - great post (8:15). I'd call it just another nail in the coffin for NeoCons casting doubt on the Democratic leanings of the military, particularly the overwhelming number of military members voting for Obama.

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the times ahead will be tough: Inflation is high (gov printed more money to finance these wars) Taxes will be rising due to this inflation. Deficit and high trade imbalances Food prices are high and expect retail prices to catch up

These are not the times you want to be President, but Lincoln had it much worse. I wish Obama all the best, and his speeches are a great motivator, but Washington policy must change in regards to the common man. On every policy you should ask yourself "does this help the common American" With all the changes that need to be made and all the political infighting that needs to be done, I expect Obama to age as much as Lincoln did (and he already has some)

Being the President is the most brutal job you could want. Obama has wanted it for some time and I wish him the best and I will also try my hardest under his tenure. He is the real deal as far as politicians are concerned, there is a reason why they called Lincoln "Honest Abe"

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Isn't Tammy Duckworth that woman who lost her legs in Iraq?

Is she bashing the crap out of McCain too?

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On every policy you should ask yourself "does this help the common American" Badsey, you got more trust in Americans than I do. I think you would be alone asking yourself that question. I am with the thought that we, Americans, for the most part are very single in thought. And, "He is the real deal as far as politicians are concerned", again, you have a lot of faith in people and I hope your wish comes true. But, I still can't bring myself to believe a politician is out there for me..

there is a reason why they called Lincoln "Honest Abe"" Yeah, well George Washington was honest enough to tell who chopped that cherry tree....

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Did you hear? Obama is going to be standing on a Greek Temple Replica stage....

You have got to be kidding me. Since 1992, When Clinton came into power, we still have the same problems running for 16 years, only worse now, and the best either party can do is start having grade school plays.

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"Obama is going to be standing on a Greek Temple Replica stage...."

Cool! McCain 's probably going to be accepting his nomination sipping hot tea with a big blanket over his lap with his dear old(er) Mum!

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Sushi ( 9:57PM ) - Dream on.

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No Sarge, you need to dream on. McCain turns 72 next week, well past retirement age...

Honestly, I'm just gobsmacked the GOP still actually consider him a serious candidate....

As I said, I'm looking forward to Obama stopping him cold. :-)

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woowwwww a lot of baiting going on here..lol

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Sushi - We'll see in November, won't we? The only thing I can say with certainty is I'll be reluctantly voting for McCain, and you'll be wishing you could vote for Obama.

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Sarge - "I'll be reluctantly voting for McCain."

Wha - ??? I thought he was your poster boy?!!

Why the reluctance????

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Besides the fact he ain't a Republican can any here tell me why I should actually vote for the guy. Impressive speaker....resume really does suck for the the top job when you look at it.

Just being honest in my opinion on the guy.

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Sushi - As you well know, McCain isn't my first choice. But between McCain and Obama, I'm gonna have to go with McCain.

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I do. Wow, thanks for telling it like it is - appreciate it :-)

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Sailwind - "Besides the fact he ain't a Republican can any here tell me why I should actually vote for the guy. Impressive speaker....resume really does suck for the the top job when you look at it."

Agreed. Too much smack talk about his Vietnam experience if you ask me.

Wasn't much of a flyboy in anyone's books.

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sailwind - "( Obama's ) resume really does suck for the top job"

But according to SezWho, we're not voting for a resume, we're voting for a leader. Heck, I'd rather vote for a garbageman with good character than a Harvard graduate with bad character. But in Obama's case, not only is his resume thin ( I wouldn't say it sucks, it's just thin ), he has hung out with people of bad character, he's in favor of bigger government with more government control over everything ( his voting record is clear on this ) and he just comes across to me as someone I don't trust to be my president.

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Sarge,

With respect, I think Obama could get quite a few management jobs with his thin resume. On the contrary, I think McCain would be challenged to get them on account of his age.

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McCain has voted with the majority of the Republican party positions 95 percent of the time. What a shocker........Bush happens to be to be the Republican President do the math.

Obama voted with the Democratic party 93 percent of time in his short term as a Senator. Do I claim he and Hillary are the same based on that?

Sushi please post why I should actually vote for the guy based something better than he ain't a Republican, that is pretty thin as I try to look at his record. That's the heartburn I have with him, he really doesn't have one other than he does make a good speech.

So tell me why i should vote for the guy? He isn't Bush to me really doesn't cut it.

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Betzee,

Thank you for the encouragement.

I tend to agree with you as far as saying that Obama is more a symbol of change than he is its agent. Washington is nothing if not self-perpetuating.

However, after 1776 I think one of the first things the Disloyalists did was to commission a flag. Symbols can be important in allowing agents of change to coalesce.

Obviously, there are no guarantees.

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skipthesong,

I don't think it matters much to your point, but I think the Courts in England made it clear that slavery was illegal some 80 years before the emancipation in the US. That decision immediately released thousands of slaves.

Of course enslavement continues to exist in both countries--mostly of women. And of course no self-respecting "lefty" would want to forget wage slavery, but that's probably just a figment of my imagination.

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Everton2:

There are no degrees of white in America, either you are or you are not.

Tell that to my girlfriend's son, who is half Asian and half Anglo, and doesn't look either very convincingly.

SushiSake3:

Obama is at least 50% black.

skipthesong:

No vote for Obama = racism

That's the kneejerk defense, yes.

SezWho2:

However, I suspect that if Obama loses it will be because of his race and not because of any lack of substance or experience.

See?

What will happen if an Asian is running? Will the "minority leaders" support them? We all saw the backstage fracas that nearly wrecked the 2000 DNC convention when a Jew was the VP nom.

Oh yeah, and Parliament Funkadelic would be a nice consolation for having a Marxist with almost exclusively extremist-leftist friends and connections in the White House. But even Bootsy Collins wouldn't be enough.

SezWho2:

Despite what williamsmith said about slaves being emancipated 143 years ago, blacks were not. Racism runs deep in America.

You're quite right. Just ask Jesse "Hymietown" Jackson or Al "Diamond Merchants" Sharpton. Or maybe you should review the L.A. Riots after the Rodnet King verdict, when blacks targeted not white policie officers, but Asian store owners.

With all the points against Obama, his inexperience, his extremist connections, his lack of substance, his lack of integrity, his lack of knowledge, his Marxist viewpoints, his VP choice... you're gonna cling to race. Looks like you're the myopic one, not Obama's critics.

We need to study how not to be a superpower and still create security for ourselves and our friends and even for those we call our enemies.

Ah yes, the Bill Clinton outlook. After all, that superpower stuff is a lot of work. All that responsibility can really get a country down.

You might as might propose trying not to have a job while having trying to acquire a bunch of nice stuff at the same time. Oh that's right, that's the liberal mantra.

What you forget is that whether America is a superpower or not, other countries will try to be superpowers, and they're trying it right now. Which is why America should always be a superpower.

marvenp:

The only reason people will vote for that old "white" geezer is that he is WHITE.

Or maybe we're just anti-Marxist.

Obama has been talking "substance" all the time.

Really? Examples?

Try playing any game on Xbox Live. You'll be called a N***er at least 15 times by 10 to 25 year old white boys and girls before the round is over.

Xbox Live? Oh yeah, that's the first place I look for maturity. :-) Try listening to any hip-hop song, you'll get called the same thing by people of your own race. Is that racism too?

It was also Bush who while serving as Gov. of Texas who showed no remorse and didn't even show up to the funeral of James Byrd a black who horrendously slain (in Texas) by three white men who offered to give him a ride home (one of which he knew). When asked if Texas needed stricter legislation for hate crimes after the verdict, Bush serving as Governor said no. I think we know where Bush stands on racism.

Two of the men who killed Byrd were convicted and sentenced to death, and the third was convicted and sentenced to life in prison. How much stricter can you get? You can't! There was nothing more Bush could do! Show up at the funeral? Why? Leftists would just claim he was using Byrd's death for political purposes. I think we know where Bush stands on murder, and that's sufficient.

And being from Delaware, I'm also happy that he has chosen Joe Biden as his running mate.

Biden, who described Obama as a "clean black"? Hilarious.

Instead of watching Chris Rock videos, perhaps you should read Thomas Sowell. If Sowell would run for president, he would have my vote. But as a black man, would he have yours?

Damax6:

If obama had the resume, some of you STILL wont be convinced he is suitable for the "white house".

You're quite right. I've always been convinced that Marxists are not suitable for the White House.

Don't know who said this:

people are saying that he is weak on foreign policy, over the years we have been tough,gun-toting,gun-blazing America. where has it gotten us?

Well, it's just ended Nazism, slavery, the occasional dictatorship, stopped communism from spreading, and end fascism the world over...

USARonin:

USAFdude, well most of the combat troops I know are conservative in philosophy and politics. That's probably the difference between troops who put their lives on the line and the Air Force.

Oh, ouch. Both of my parents were Air Force, one of my uncles, my b-i-l (who has served on ten missions in Iraq), and several of my friends. Thing is, all of them are right-wing conservatives. None of them have USAFdude's viewpoint.

skipthesong:

The guy is going to win not because blacks are voting for him but because whites are going to vote for him.

True, 90% of blacks vote democrat anyway, regardless of who is on the ticket. It would be interesting to see what happened if a Jew, Asian or Hispanic were on the top of the DNC ticket.

USARonin:

Yo, Skippy, I didn't bring up the "race" issue. Your high school friend did.

Funny thing is, McCain never brings up race. It's always Obama and his supporters. It looks like they're the ones with the race issues.

Madverts:

Heh, both houses were seized back from the disaterous republican tenure fairly recently, milado.

The point you (and the rest of the Left) keep ignoring is that congressional Republicans inspired their voters to stay home in droves by acting like Democrats.

Professor:

All I see in here is jealousy and envy for President Obama. C'mon all you Barack haters, Get over it!

Oh yes, I'm envious of an empty suit slacker who got where he is by disqualifying his senate election opponents and riding a wave of anybody-but-Clinton support.

I don't envy Obama if he gets elected and has to live up to his hype...

SushiSake3: 04:29 PM JST.

So people should vote for Obama because he'll move troops from Iraq to Afghanistan, which is what Bush is doing now, but people shouldn't vote for McCain because he'll just be four more years of Bush? Eh?

The Iraq war is wrapping up. We have an agreement to have combat troops out in 2011. We're already below re-surge levels and have been for a while now. Basing your vote soley on Iraq is an ill-informed vote.

Basing your vote on defending the country and our allies from the never-ending desires of others (communists, Islamofascists, etc.) to rule the world is another story.

yabits:

The vast majority of returning Iraqi veterans who have run for office have run as Democrats.

Might have something to do with the active recruitment of returning vets by the DNC. The ones that run as Repubilcans volunteer.

This can only serve to turn around Congress's abysmal ratings -- declining through years of Republican mismanagement.

Um, it's the CURRENT congress that's earned the CURRENT ratings. How much spin does it take to blame the previous congress for the current congress' ratings?!?

Badsey:

Inflation is high (gov printed more money to finance these wars)

Funny thing is, Bernanke got that idea from the Carter administration. And isn't it odd how leftists always mention money and the deficit when talking about the wars (less than 7% of the budget), but never mention money or the deficit when proposing more entitlement programs (60% of the budget).

SushiSake3:

Meanwhile Sarge, Mccain has voted with GWB on 95% of votes, and yet he calls himself a 'maverick' - what's with that?

Actually, it was the democrat supporters in the media who called him that, and prodded McCain to "stir up" the establishment GOP by voting or threatening to vote with the democrats. McCain's ACU rating is only 84%.

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The Dems are having a great convention.

Clinton finished what Hillary started. The party is now united like it hasn't been since the 1960s. You Republicans can thank Mr. Bush for that.

Kerry was a big surprise. What is with these ex Dem presidential candiates showing the fire in their belly years too late. Too late for themselves, but not for their party.

What Kerry started, Bidden finished. Well, hammered home. After his lunch-pail Democrat intro, he just layed into McCain.

On security. Vanilla my @rse.

Finally. Finally the Dems have a candidate who will not punt of foreign policy.

Fightin Joe Bidden is the perfect choice for Vp.

I think its pretty darn obvious that Obama/BIdden are gonna whoops Grampy McSame.

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sailwind said:

. . . resume really does suck for the the top job when you look at it.

Just being honest in my opinion on the guy.

Obama has more experience than that Republican candidate for president that you liked so much like I said in my previous post to Sarge.

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DanMajt- The poll forcasts are far off of your predictions.

McCain has a strong lead and is pulling ahead fast.

Many Clintons supporters are not going to vaote for Obmaa, why? Because he is not white. I say about this on BBC news. How racist is that?

At least we know McCain will win and continue the glorious legacy of President Bush.

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I, I would have to say, it's gone beyond thunderous.Why don't people take the word of the film maker Spike Lee?

LEE: Look, I'm not a delegate or anything like that. I'm just here to witness history. So I want to bear witness to history. I think this is a great moment not just American history but world history. So I'm glad to be here.

Maybe they are all just playa haters. It's all I can see.

"REPORTER: Did you ever think you'd see this day in your lifetime?

LEE: Never. Never.

REPORTER: What does it mean to you?

LEE: It means that this is a whole new world. I think...I've been saying this before. You can divide history. BB Before Barack. AB After Barack.

I can't go on typing.

My tears are mingled with Spike's...

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History? How? Skin color?

But... but... what about the content of his character?

How utterly ironic that such superficial means of measuring someone are all democrats still care about on this, the 45th anniversary of MLK's "I Have a Dream" speech.

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I keep hearing people on the right say that Sen. Obama has no plan, yet, I went to his website and read a lot of plans for a lot of programs. I have to wonder if this isn't a case of Sen. Obama's detractors acting like my children. They hear me just fine when I ask them if they want to go for ice cream or go to the park and they hear me just fine when I let a bad word slip and have to add 100 yen to the swear jar.

But...when I tell them it's bed time or time to do their homework....not so much. How many of you are engaging in the same selective listening process?

I'm not asking any of you to reply to me with an answer to that question, but to EVERYONE who has stated, he has no plan, have you looked at his website and read ANYTHING he has under the issues tab?

I have. He has a plan. So does Sen. McCain at his website. The way they lay out their plans on their websites is pretty similar in fact. Yet no one howls, "McCain has no plan. He is an empty suit."

Again, no need to answer me, question yourself.

Taka

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I`ve been on this board for a few weeks now, and i always find messages from Sarge grat, concise, too the point and humorous. The guy is a true patriot. The Democrats are obviously going to give Obama a good response, he is their hope of being in power.

The spin stops here......

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Obama has plans to turn America into a socialist state. He plans to nationalise health care, so the standard is so low like Europe, that hundreds of thousands of vunrable folks will die each year.

I ask all patriots to trust and vote for Sen McCain.

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Sorry ColAmerica; we true US patriots are voting for Obama. We don't need to be asked to trust him; he's already earned America's trust.

Just take a deep breath, relax, and wait for the Obama victory in November.

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WhiteHawk,

I don't think I'm clinging to race. I think I'm trying to refute the claim that race is only an issue because "leftists" and "liberals" make it so. If you think it is not, you are welcome to your opinion. But I really do think that makes you the myopic one. Race is so obviously an issue that people are screaming that it should not be.

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USAFdude- In my neighbourhood, the vast majority of folks are pledeging toe for McCain. I am an average guy, so are my neighbours, we represent the US.

THe truth is, whatever applause Obama received, there is so much racism inside some DEmocrats, that they will never vote for a black man.

This is sad, but true. Actually saw a report about is yeaserday on BBC World.

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However, after 1776 I think one of the first things the Disloyalists did was to commission a flag. Symbols can be important in allowing agents of change to coalesce.

SezWho,

One of the few possessions from my early adulthood which I have not discarded is a Confederate flag I bought in Alabama. (It's packed away, I don't fly it.) People have been taken aback by it, but I thought it would be a cool thing to own since it was "Made in Japan." To me, it symbolizes not the Confederacy but the globalization of sourcing even for national symbols such as a flag.

Symbols can certainly mean different things to different folks. Obama clearly symbolizes a shift in generation, someone too young to have experienced the culture wars which are still a sore in the national psyche that may not fully heal until those who experienced them pass from the scene.

The problem comes when the electorate believes simply installing a specific individual in the White House will change the status quo of interest group driven politics in our nation's capital. Moreover, assuming the next president can fix whatever is broken promotes the view that easy, no-cost solutions exist when in reality they do not.

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Betzee,

I couldn't agree with you last paragraph more, but I'm still not going to vote for McCain.

Of course Obama would not change Washington simply because he is Obama. If elected, I think it will be difficult for him to change Washington at all. However, I doubt that McCain will even be thinking about the necessity of change at all--since if he is elected he will have greater debts to repay.

I tend to see this as a kind of global warming parallel. I think we have very little time left in which to change the direction that we are going and that, in fact, we may have already passed a point of no return. Nonetheless I think it is necessary to "take the country" back from the special interest groups and to create a more congenial foreign policy.

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Ah, ColAmerica plays the non-existent race card again (in desperation, no doubt). Well, let me ask you this: Which party freely chose two candidates to compete for the nomination, neither of whom is a white male? The Democrats. Which party has thus weaned themselves from the "white guy comfort zone" and motivated it's members to look at the candidates' stances on the issues? The Democrats. Which party has led its constituents to educate themselves on the issues and choose the best candidate between a black man and a white woman? The Democrats.

Which party took the easy way out and nominated a white male so its constituents wouldn't have to consider the issues? The Republicans. Painfully obvious that the Democrats are the more progressive-thinking party where the true racists/sexist still (as always) reside with the Republicans. Checkmate.

BTW: "BBC World"? For a guy who calls himself ColAmerica, why do you even consider the views of non-Americans when it's conservatives such as yourselves who gloat over the fact that only Americans vote in our elections?

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THe truth is, whatever applause Obama received, there is so much racism inside some DEmocrats, that they will never vote for a black man.

Must be those "Reagan Democrats" we often hear about.

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SezWho2:

I don't think I'm clinging to race. I think I'm trying to refute the claim that race is only an issue because "leftists" and "liberals" make it so. If you think it is not, you are welcome to your opinion. But I really do think that makes you the myopic one. Race is so obviously an issue that people are screaming that it should not be.

But McCain's camp and supporters aren't bring race up, unless it's supporters who point out the old-school democrats who won't vote for a black man, as ColAmerica pointed out. The rest of the time it's brought up, it's brought up by Obama himself ("...and did I mention he's black?" -Obama, June 21, 2008), or his supporters, who typically mention that McCain is not only white, but also "old", or a "geezer".

SezWho2, the left is paying the price for wrapping itself in identity politics. Y'all are so caught up in labels and groups that any time a minority figure is a right-winger (Condi Rice, Thomas Sowell, Clarence Thomas, J.C. Watts, Michelle Malkin), the left can't wrap their minds around it. In the case of Malkin, she gets attacked with racist slurs (you should read her hate mail). Not only that, but the kneejerk defense to anyone criticizing Obama is to openly question whether they're a racist. I, like many, have pointed out Obama's lack of accomplishments (despite his potential), his lack of substance, his lack of executive experience, his lack of private sector experience, his proposals of policies that have failed for other leaders here and abroad, his past spending proposals, his future spending proposals, his past judgement errors, his false statements, his poor choice of associates, the actions of his staff and supporters trying to silence anyone mention his connections to terrorist William Ayers...

The list goes on and on. So how on God's Green Earth you can possibly suggest that I'm the least bit myopic is beyond me.

If it weren't for (Obama's) people "screaming" that race shouldn't be an issue in this er, race, would it even be brought up at all? I doubt it. Are there people who won't vote for Obama for any other reason because he's black? Yeah, there are. But in my part of the country (The South), it's democrats. The republicans wouldn't consider voting for a Marxist regardless of skin color anyway, so they're a moot point. And folks like USAFdude have conveniently forgotten things like the "draft Condi" movement, and the hope within the GOP that Bobby Jindal will run for the White House when he's tired of being governor of Louisiana.

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I doubt that McCain will even be thinking about the necessity of change at all--since if he is elected he will have greater debts to repay.

I think it would take everything he has just to keep his head above water (while keeping the Republican base happy since he's viewed as not really one of 'em). The few times he's actually spoken about policy it's almost scary to listen; it's not clear he understands how Social Security works, for example. Then there are the problems on the Pakistan-Iraq border he referred to (when those countries don't even share a border).

I don't know whether it's an age issue, lack of intellect, or some combination but I sure don't want him in the White House.

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WhiteHawk,

I think you were the first one to wade in with the charge of myopia. You seem to want to dwell on name-calling and characterization instead of just addressing the point at hand. But, if I may point out, if you were myopic, you might be the last person to see that.

Sure, the McCain camp brings race up. They were the ones who claimed, for example, that Obama had "played the race card" when he did not specifically refer to race at all. They continue to bring it up by keeping the discussion alive, claiming falsely that Obama and his supporters are making this election about race. Obama has not said one thing that McCain could not also have said with complete impunity.

Yes, race would be an issue in this campaign even if Obama did not bring it up. The difference is that it would be an issue which was unspoken and that it is unspoken is favorable to McCain. Obama correctly says that race should not be an issue. He is not asking people to vote for him because he is black. He is asking people to distance themselves from the issue of race and decide on other bases.

How does anyone have a problem with that?

By the way, you might refrain from addressing me as though I were a member of "the left" just because I disagree with you and support this or that candidate and this or that policy. It is far too cheap to pejorate anyone in that manner. Concentrate on issues, not on labels.

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Sure, the McCain camp brings race up.

They sure do. They even had the gall to mention that Obama gave his acceptance speech on the very same date in history that Martin Luther King made his "I Have A Dream Speech" back in 1961. Oh, they were subtle about it, hid the reference behind a pithy congratulations ad that McCain endorsed and nobody believes was sincere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v_ioN5SyBM

McCain.......Class act on this Ad, truly a class act.

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sailwind; Sir i protest in the strongest terms!!!

McCain and his camp, never decide anything by looking at a person ethnicity. This is a proven fact.

You are providing red herrings. However, the loser Democrats, who feted Obama so grandly, are now running scared after the inclusion of Palin.

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From the non-partisan Annenberg Politacal Fact Check

No. 1 and 4 are the most serious problems.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_obama.html

We checked the accuracy of Obama's speech accepting the Democratic nomination, and noted the following:

1 -- Obama said he could “pay for every dime” of his spending and tax cut proposals “by closing corporate loopholes and tax havens.” That’s wrong – his proposed tax increases on upper-income individuals are key components of paying for his program, as well. And his plan, like McCain’s, would leave the U.S. facing big budget deficits, according to independent experts.

2 -- He twisted McCain’s words about Afghanistan, saying, “When John McCain said we could just 'muddle through' in Afghanistan, I argued for more resources.” Actually, McCain said in 2003 we “may” muddle through, and he recently also called for more troops there.

3 -- He said McCain would fail to lower taxes for 100 million Americans while his own plan would cut taxes for 95 percent of “working” families. But an independent analysis puts the number who would see no benefit from McCain’s plan at 66 million and finds that Obama’s plan would benefit 81 percent of all households when retirees and those without children are figured in.

4 -- Obama asked why McCain would "define middle-class as someone making under five million dollars a year"? Actually, McCain meant that comment as a joke, getting a laugh and following up by saying, "But seriously ..."

5 -- Obama noted that McCain’s health care plan would "tax people’s benefits" but didn’t say that it also would provide up to a $5,000 tax credit for families.

6 -- He said McCain, far from being a maverick who’s "broken with his party," has voted to support Bush policies 90 percent of the time. True enough, but by the same measure Obama has voted with fellow Democrats in the Senate 97 percent of the time.

7 -- Obama said "average family income" went down $2,000 under Bush, which isn't correct. An aide said he was really talking only about "working" families and not retired couples. And – math teachers, please note – he meant median (or midpoint) and not really the mean or average. Median family income actually has inched up slightly under Bush.

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Nessie

You mean to tell me Obama is tweaking data?!?

OMG!!

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Dan, just because everyone does it doesn't make it right.

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I never said it does.

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