Obama confident, McCain seeks upset

"Bush was nowhere near the campaign crowds as the election neared, and McCain wouldn’t have it any other way, given low presidential approval ratings"

Hahaha.... too bad they are one and the same, and McCain is trapped in the party. Wonder how bush, the worst president in US history, feels about it all as McCain won't allow him nearby.

Palin's attempt to now paint the democratic campaign as being negative are simply hilarious.

McCain is trapped in the party.

Like a snake in a burlap sack, into which you toss a Palin-mongoose.

I think the headline was suppose to read McCain is upset. But then McCain is always upset isn't he?

"Obama, ahead in the polls, maintained stride despite news that an aunt from Kenya, Zeituni Onyango, lves in the U.S."

In a Boston slum.

I am my brother's keeper, my rear end!

The lesser of two evils. I would vote Palin and Joe the Plumber if I had the choice.

Yesterday, McCain got the kiss of death when he was endorsed by Dick Cheney. I'm just waiting for the rest of the McCain coffin bearers, Rumsfeld, Rice, Rove to come forward.

The aunt is the sister of Obama's AWOL father. Only the nutters would claim close familial ties. Obama acknowledges his paternal family, but if you been following the campaign at all you might notice that they do not figure large in his life and warrant only brief mentions.

Anyway, why would in a free society anyone expect a political leader to know about and control every action a relative, friend, or acquaintance does? If a relative of mine started to demand I change my life in order to avoid embarrassing them politically, I would be apt to tell him/her to get stuffed. Obama has stated that the laws of the land need to be obeyed - that is all he can do and all he needs to do.

As for the whistle-blowers, they have made Obama's aunt a potential target for wackos. This now means that taxpayer money is being spent on safeguarding her and her neighbors.

"McCain got the kiss of death when he was endorsed by Dick Cheney"

Obama got the kiss of death when he was endorsed by Paris Hilton.

"I would vote Palin and Joe the Plumber if I had the choice"

You might just get it it 2012!

Sarge -- equating Cheney with Paris Hilton! Man, I got a nice belly chuckle out of that one! Keep them coming!

"McCain got the kiss of death when he was endorsed by Dick Cheney"

Sarge: "Obama got the kiss of death when he was endorsed by Paris Hilton."

I know whom I would preferred to be kissed by, and it wouldn't be Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, Karl Rove or even Condi Rice.

"I would vote Palin and Joe the Plumber if I had the choice"

You might just get it it 2012!

Wow Sarge. Glad to see you have finally gotten over your delusions about McCain winning in 2008. The greedy ole party surely can come up w/someone better than Palin by 2012, don't you think?

buddha - I didn't equate Cheney with Paris.

As Obama says, you can't expect to play the same game with the same people and expect a different result.

Chessnut - I've not gotten over my dream of McCain winning in 2008.

Sarge, the equation is [Candidate's Name] got the kiss of death when he was endorsed by [Insert Name]

But of course you were joking when you inferred that Hilton's endorsement of Obama is as damaging to Obama as Cheney's endorsement of McCain.

Or are you going say that you were not inferring either?

Maid: Senator Obama, Mr. Ayers is on your telephone.

Obama: Sweet Jesus. Please tell him to call back.

Maid: Any particular of time, Senator?

Obama: January. 2017.

In 79 days Barack Obama will be our next president. < :-)

In 79 days John McCain will be our next president.

Chessut - My dream is not so much McCain winning as Obama losing.

Haha. Get ready for an electoral college landslide on Tuesday Sarge. No point in being bitter for the next 4 years regarding your new commander-in-chief.

george bush screwed this country. John McCain would keep these same doctrines alive.

Barack is a positive change for the future. < :-)

sarge -

My dream is not so much McCain winning as Obama losing.

So that's your politics, sarge? You don't care (obviously) who wins just as long as someone you don't like loses, huh?

Well, let me tell you, if McCain wins, the US military loses. That much is inarguable. So then, do you really care how many of us die in the desert? Do you care how many families are disrupted by men and women having to deploy time and time again? Do you care about sick and injured veterans? If so, you'd vote for Obama; if you vote for McCain, you obviously don't care. But then, you don't seem to care if McCain wins, based on your own statement.

What DO you care about?

Dude - I care about our country. Obama would be a disaster.

Go on, sarge. Tell me why.

Dude: "if McCain wins, the US miitary loses. That much is inarguable."

The majority of the members of the U.S. military would argue that.

Dude - 74% of CEO's believe Obama would be disastrous for the nation:

http://polipundit.com/index.php?p=20287

Dude: "The majority of the US military backs Obama"

They do not.

"pathetic Military Times argument"

You just can't stand the fact that 68% of subscribers to the Military Times support McCain while only 23% support your candidate.

The majority of the US military backs Obama. Even your pathetic Military Times argument can't state otherwise.

i read that one and chuckle at the desperation.

barney frank has said the democrats will cut military spending by 25 percent.

that's a lot of jobs and families hit.

knowing that military votes trend republican democrats in virginia tried this month to have overseas military votes invalidated, just as gore did in 2000.

When Barack wins this election it won't be because the Supreme Court gave it to him. < :-)

i admit, some small businesses are pro-obama

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_595966.html

Sarge - "My dream is not so much McCain winning as Obama losing."

That'd be because you don't actually support McCain.

USAFDude^ If you believe most troops support Obama, the only military you serve is a non American one.

Obama is gonna lose, the McCain comeback is assurred, all us in the know realise this. Obama and Acorn are trying to steal the presidency, but will we let them ? no way, you betcha!!!

barney frank has said the democrats will cut military spending by 25 percent. that's a lot of jobs and families hit.

You mean just like the reductions in force imposed upon us by the Bush administration?

knowing that military votes trend republican democrats in virginia tried this month to have overseas military votes invalidated, just as gore did in 2000.

Hmmm, I didn't realize Gore was running. Do you actually think Obama would suppress our votes? Sounds more like a McCain tactic to me.

As far as a real answer to a question here.

Why would President Obama be a disaster?

His tax plan is nothing more than welfare in disquise. It is at it's core nothing more than a prescription to ensure people are even more dependent on Government than they are now. The Tax code is the single greatest way the federal Government can modify peoples behavior. His proposal will not encourage the lower middle class to move up, it will ensure that they are subsidized and stuck where they are at. Long term benefit for Obama and the Democrats, they basically are going to buy off a permanent dependent class with their social engineering through the tax code and ensure a reliable base of dependent support in the future. Long term disaster...........The engine that has made America the greatest Nation on earth through sheer guts and determination to make something better out an individuals life is now going to more and more stifled. The incentives in the past that drove people to strive to move up, is going to be replaced with, "Why should I, the Government is already taking care of me."

That is going to be the legacy of an Obama Presidency. That is the disaster that is going happen.

Free Healthcare, Free tuition, Tax Free Wages for lower income workers leads to one thing. Mediocrity

mediocrity n. , pl. -ties . The state or quality of being mediocre. Mediocre ability, achievement, or performance.

That is why his Presidency will end up taking more away from us in the long term then in the short term and it pains me to see it happen.

My opinion and if you step back from the stereotypes and really look at what I'm saying, you just might actually think this Conservative may actually have a real point here.

CaptainUSA - patriotic Americans support Obama.

You must be a non-American. :-)

Obama has this election in the bag.

It's a shame Republicans threw the McCain campaign under a bus.

obama video to iowa pacifist group

he vows to disarm our military. and with typical obama arrogance and naivete he seems to believe if we cut our defenses the chinese, the russians and the norks, and hugo chavez, and iran will do the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o84PE871BE

Sailwind, I hear what you are saying, but at what cost?

McCain isn't serious about the environment. The increasingly deadly effects of climate change - if not tackled - will not only affect people's daily lives, but economic stability and national security sa well.

What is McCain going to do about this besides drill for more oil and build more nuclear power stations?

And the wars? Heck, don't get me started on the wars.

These wars are draining billions of dollars that could be used to strengthen America's financial security, pay down national debt and help to slowly strengthen your nation's financial footing again instead of John McCain's plan of continuing both wars, which will only put America into even greater debt to foreign nations, place continual downward pressure on wages, pump up inflation, raise unemployment, and mean more US jobs get shipped overseas as employers cut costs everywhere they can to try to offer products at prices that consumers with ever-decreasing amounts of money can afford.

"His [Obama's] proposal will not encourage the lower middle class to move up, it will ensure that they are subsidized and stuck where they are at."

Heck, that's going to be the least of their problems!

Sail, I encourage you to take a wider view of the problems facing your nation, in particular in the short to medium terms in the areas of energy self-sufficiency, climate change and taxes.

But I know you have voted, so I'm probably wasting my time. :-)

ImperiumMundi - "he vows to disarm our military. and with typical obama arrogance and naivete he seems to believe if we cut our defenses the chinese, the russians and the norks, and hugo chavez, and iran will do the same."

Are you implying that McCain's dream of perpetual war while the economy is in recession is somehow a better idea???

I'll ask again - where is the money going to come from to fund rthese wars?

ESPECIALLY now that we have a GOP-fuelled recession on our hands???

If Obama were really running for "redistributor in chief," as McCain claimed today, well that's one race GWB would win hands down as Tom Friedman observed:

We are all going to have to pay, because this meltdown comes in the context of what has been “perhaps the greatest wealth transfer since the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia in 1917,” says Michael Mandelbaum, author of “Democracy’s Good Name.” “It is not a wealth transfer from rich to poor that the Bush administration will be remembered for. It is a wealth transfer from the future to the present.”

Indeed.

One of the funniest things about this election in my view is that there are people out there who think that John McCain, who has been instrumental in creating the US economic crisis the entire world is now witnessing and being battered by, is somehow going to be the guy to fix it.

This economic crisis is partly of McCain's making - it's partly his baby.

I don't understand how some people can buy into the notion that one of the authors of this meltdown is now - somehow - the right guy to fix it.

Bottom line - in the last 8 years, John McCain has been an integral member of the rulling party. John McCain has voted with George Bush 91% of the time.

LOOK WHAT HAS RESULTED - a whacking great economic crisis, an unfolding recession, a tsunami of job layoffs, the highest unemployment and inflation levels in a long time, the greatest level of US Government debt in history, 2 wars, the biggest terrorist attack on US soil in history, once strong bilateral friendships in tatters, the list goes on.

John McCain has been an intergral component in this perfect storm of disasters.

And there's people out there who now - suddenly - think John McCain is the right guy to fix it???

ARE YOU KIDDING YOURSELF?????

ESPECIALLY now that we have a GOP-fuelled recession on our hands???

as big and complex as the us economy is it is quite a stretch to blame the financial crisis on a single party, especially since with the subprime crisis we are talking about decades of misguided legislation.

so i take it you are voting for obama, beneficiary of more donations from freddie mac and fanny may than any politician in washington.

ImperiumMundi - "as big and complex as the us economy is it is quite a stretch to blame the financial crisis on a single party, especially since with the subprime crisis we are talking about decades of misguided legislation."

Agreed, but it is also quite a stretch not to. The GOP has had all of the last 8 years - almost a decade - to tweak any financial regulations they wanted.

Did they?

EVANSVILLE, Indiana (CNN) – The morning after Joe Biden told reporters he hoped John McCain would finish the campaign with a positive tone — “his strength” — the Delaware senator said he doesn’t remember a presidential campaign ending so viciously.

“In my view, over the last few weeks, John McCain’s campaign has gone way over the top,” said Biden Saturday at an outdoor rally on Evansville’s Main Street. “They are trying to take the low road to the highest office in the land. It’s not only George Bush’s economic policies that John McCain has bought hook, line and sinker. He’s also bought Karl Rove’s brand of political tactics.”

More: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/11/01/biden-never-thought-id-see-this-from-mccain/

Your stereotypes are great but I'm glad you have that you have that much faith in Obama to bring about all that change. But I'm afraid I'll have to disagree w/your doomsday outlook. I hardly believe that a healthcare plan to help 50 million uninsured gain some type of health coverage (note: not free), increased education breaks for the poor and more disposable income for the masses will lead to mediocrity as you believe. Your argument is old hat as the Right wingers said the same things about clinton in 1992, but none of it came true. Instead, the economy performed wonderfully(as it usually does under Democrats) and we had one hell of a surplus until Bush came to power. I find it almost ridiculous that you think the Bush administration has done anything to help anyone in this country other than himself and his rich buddies. I hope to speak you again in 4 years when, of course, none of your fantasies come true.

John McCain has been an intergral component in this perfect storm of disasters.

mccain warned of the dangers we faced back in may of 2006.

i posted a link yesterday of this letter he signed (along with 19 other republicans) and presented to the senate leader.

obama has 2 ivy league degrees and a wife with the same. yet she frequently tells audiences that even in their mid-thirties they were nearly broke and that it was only sales of obama's memoir or autobiography that helped them pull through.

so yeah, vote for obama if you actually think a community organizer and activist lawyer truly understands wealth creation and can relate to entrepreneurs.

ImperiumMundi - "so yeah, vote for obama if you actually think a community organizer and activist lawyer truly understands wealth creation and can relate to entrepreneurs."

So, you think McCain with his 8 houses, 13 cars and 26 years living and working outside mainstream life IS representative of middle class Americans and truly understanding of wealth creation?

LOL!!

Oh, and the 'activist' tag you stuck in front of the word 'lawyer' in your description was cute.

Keep up the fear-mongering - it's the only tactic the GOP has left. :-)

I hardly believe that a healthcare plan to help 50 million uninsured gain some type of health coverage (note: not free), increased education breaks for the poor and more disposable income for the masses will lead to mediocrity as you believe.

50? subtract 20 million who, like obama's aunt, are in the country illegally.

millions of americans in their teens and twenties don't bother to purchase insurance.

education? we spend more than any country in the world but the staunchly democrat teachers unions are opposed to any real accountability in the profession.

obama chaired a foundation that gave away 150 million to chicago schools and even their internal assessment of the program declared it was an academic failure, neglecting to mention it was more about radicalizing young children than actually teaching them.

Talking about desparation, I'm confused.

Why haven't GOP supporters on this board raised the apparent fact that Obama's aunt from Kenya, Zeituni Onyango, who has allegedly been living lives in the U.S. illegally, "atomatically disqualifies Obama from the presidency." :-)

I mean, doesn't it?

Keep up the fear-mongering - it's the only tactic the GOP has left. :-)

what makes you think that like you, i seek to change people's minds?

i don't.

like i have said - vote obama if you actually think he understands coolidge and the business of america.

sailwind hate to break it to you after such an eloquent rehearsing of the right-wing talking points for the last generation or so. Even with the social safety net stifling American progress, America has become the strongest and richest nation in the history of the world. Are you not going to credit the American people their hard work and ingenuity despite the safety net that, in part, allows them to focus on innovation and progress?

And I wont even start on the socialization of American capitalism which has dropped the pretense of being anything than a big baby on the government tax teat. Did the threat of failure keep American capitalism on the straight and narrow?

ImperiumMundi - judging by the polls, you'll still be punching blindly on Election Day while I'll be busy celebrating an Obama victory.

Can't wait :-)

sailwind - Thank you for the first adult response I've received on this thread. I am interested, however, in how your post reflects fact and not simply your opinion.

For example: Free Healthcare, Free tuition, Tax Free Wages for lower income workers leads to one thing. Mediocrity

How so? Of particular interest is your mention of free tuition; certainly if tuition were free, more students would attend university. Once there, getting a degree requires hard work and study, so how does that perpetuate mediocrity?

USAFDude - thanks for bringing up that question about SAilwin'd post.

I also couldn't see the connection and am interested in Sailwind's reply.

democrat teachers unions

...who are stifled from teaching by bush's failed "No Child Left Behind" fiasco.

SushiSake3 - no prob.

I've said before that I have a great respect for McCain (though admittedly less after this campaign) and the service he has done for his country, but I've got to go with Obama. Here's why:

a) I trust him to listen to intelligent input from all sides, and make carefully considered decisions, on all fronts -- economic, foreign policy, everything. I don't trust McCain to listen to anybody, and he has a tendency towards rashness I can't endorse. It may be fine in the Senate, where it can do little immediate damage, but I do not want an irritable old man with his finger on the proverbial button.

b) McCain is 72 years old, and by his own admission lives on a diet of donuts and Coca Cola. The words "President Palin" bring such a cold shudder to my spine that even if I didn't like Obama, I'd vote for pretty much anybody else, really. Palin as president would be like a female version of G.W.Bush, only far, far worse. The U.S. simply can't afford to even risk that possibility, in my opinion.

Amen to that! U really R da man! VP Palin a heart attack away from the presidency is scary that anything that I saw on Halloween.

50? subtract 20 million who, like obama's aunt, are in the country illegally.

So 30 million people without health insurance is OK?

millions of americans in their teens and twenties don't bother to purchase insurance.

That 30 million are just young people too lazy to buy health insurance? Well that is a scandel! Why isn't that fact reported? Where is the GOP on this?

education? we spend more than any country in the world but the staunchly democrat teachers unions are opposed to any real accountability in the profession.

I hear ya, the lack of accountability in American business and politics is just as depressing.

obama chaired a foundation that gave away 150 million to chicago schools and even their internal assessment of the program declared it was an academic failure, neglecting to mention it was more about radicalizing young children than actually teaching them.

Well, other than real radicals, who would state as their goal to radicalize young children? Mmmm keep trying I am sure you'll find truth someday.

Sorry. I meant "scarier than"

judging by the polls, you'll still be punching blindly on Election Day while I'll be busy celebrating an Obama victory.

you aren't even going to bother voting? you post so much here. surely you want to be part of history.

Sarge:"74% of CEO's believe Obama would be disastrous for the nation"

Let's see... those are the CEOs who pocketed their investors money by the millions and allowed their companies to crash, but somehow managed to escape with their own personal fortunes.

I think what 74% of CEOs believe is that Obama would be disastrous for conniving, greedy, thieving CEOs.

Of particular interest is your mention of free tuition; certainly if tuition were free, more students would attend university. Once there, getting a degree requires hard work and study, so how does that perpetuate mediocrity?

It was free for years in the world-reknown California university system, students only paid board. Those were considered the golden years and achievement levels were high. By contrast, now that students pay, exorbitant sums if they opt for private colleges, we've seen grade inflation. These "consumers" are shuffled through without necessarily learning much. As someone I worked with observed, "Education is the only business where you can cheat the customer and keep him happy."

As for health care, ours is an employer paid system. Has Joe the Plumber looked into how much it's gonna cost him to offer his employees health care benefits when he buys that plumbing business? He'd better.....

"74% of CEO's believe Obama would be disastrous for the nation" Let's see... those would be a lot of the CEOs who pocket millions of their shareholders dollars and allow their companies to crash through reckless greed, leaving the shareholders crap and yet somehow escaping with their own personal fortunes intact, and indeed surface again in some other company...

question:has a poor man ever given you a job?

"CaptainUSA" -

If you believe most troops support Obama, the only military you serve is a non American one.

Thanks for essentially calling all of us US troops "non-Americans". I guess you'd prefer we not be able to vote at all(unless it's for McCain). But we can, and so can you, thanks to our service.

You're welcome.

you aren't hauled into court when some unelected official decides your health care choices were not sanctioned by the big central government that's taking half of your paycheck every month.

But we spend a higher percentage of our GNP on health care. Senator McCain, who as a member of Congress receives generous health care coverage, claims that if individuals were able to shop around, this will bring the cost of premiums down. Yet anyone who's navigated the private health insurance industry, ever on the alert for "pre-existing conditions," would recognize this is in fact not the case.

Individual buyers have little or no consumer bargaining power, just as insurers have no incentive to sell policies to those most likely to require coverage. I've known people to enroll in community college just to be able to buy insurance at a group rate, which is always cheaper. In fact I recommended this option to someone who was recently laid-off.

ImperiumMundi: "question:has a poor man ever given you a job?"

Don't be reductionist. Of course people want to make money. I simply believe that there need to be more checks in place to prevent the kind of crap that seems to have been happening at a rapidly increasing pace in the US from happening so much. The kind of checks that the Republicans always seem dead-set on getting rid of. This whole "the market is infallible -- the market will sort it out" nonsense. Well, after years and years of the higher-ups having their way with government -- look where it's got us. Ooops! Turns out the market ISN'T the perfect solution to everything! Who knew! "Now please give us a gazillion dollars of taxpayer money, please."

"What do you mean, 'That would be socialism'?"

And yes, by the way, I HAVE in the past been given a job by a man who by the standards of any self-respecting CEO would be considered "poor" (i.e. middle class). He was a builder, and I was a carpenter's apprentice.

The McCain comeback is here for all to see, check the latest Fox News polls for yourselves.

Obama, Obama, Obama he's gonna slam ya. Obama, Obama, Obama, he's gonna slam ya... flat, wide and dead. Yeah!

Your stereotypes are great but I'm glad you have that you have that much faith in Obama to bring about all that change. But I'm afraid I'll have to disagree w/your doomsday outlook. I hardly believe that a healthcare plan to help 50 million uninsured gain some type of health coverage (note: not free), increased education breaks for the poor and more disposable income for the masses will lead to mediocrity as you believe. Your argument is old hat as the Right wingers said the same things about clinton in 1992, but none of it came true. Instead, the economy performed wonderfully(as it usually does under Democrats) and we had one hell of a surplus until Bush came to power. I find it almost ridiculous that you think the Bush administration has done anything to help anyone in this country other than himself and his rich buddies. I hope to speak you again in 4 years when, of course, none of your fantasies come true.

Boy oh Boy memories sure are selective here.

Okay, what party controlled Congress for almost 50 years????? And what President ended that reign of power by that party with his over the top social welfare program????? You know universal Health care?......Think, real hard on that one. 1994 the Democrats where wiped out of Congress and reduced Clinton to whining in front of the cameras that he was still relevant according to the Constitution.

Clinton, had economic prosperity because a fiscally responsible Republican Majority kept his worst populist, big Government nanny state ambitions in check. Remember how was forced to embrace workfare???????

Now as far as Bush he was destined to be a one term President. The opinion polls the first year of his Presidency were dismal. Americans began to see this wasn't the really the guy that wanted, but after Clinton and all his shenigans pretty much ruined it for Gore we were pretty much stuck with they guy.

What changed kiddies???????? Oh that selective memory that we all forget about. 9/11, Bush became a war Presdident, Americans always rally behind a nation in crisis, just as they will if Obama faces the same thing. Politics are put aside these are facts people.

Bush rode that wave and took it way over the line in that goodwill in invading Iraq. He used that wave to further his vision on the world and he tried to do it on the cheap. I have no love for Bush, he is one of the worst Presidents in History. The fact is he lead the Republican Party back into the wilderness with the 2006 midterms, where the party after abandoning its fiscal conservative roots to support Bush and where it rightly belongs.

Now here is the weird part. We now have had a Democratic Congress in charge for the past two years. They have to get this.........managed the accomplish an even worse approval rate than George Bush! An outstanding 8 percent approval rating last I checked. The happy folks on J.T now think it's a good idea to put a big activist Democrat President in charge of these guys now. A guy that is going to sign every piece of pork and fuzzy feel good legislation that is going to cross his desk.

I'm putting my money underneath my mattress until his mid-trems if he gets elected. At least I know big daddy Government isn't going to get his mitts on it there. And to answer the the question what is wrong with free tution?

I get to pay for someone elses kid to go to college? How nice just gives me less of a reason to work harder and save more to put my own kid through instead. Why should I when some else is going to pick up the tab..........Understand my original points now?

Obama, Obama, Obama he's gonna slam ya. Obama, Obama, Obama, he's gonna slam ya... flat, wide and dead. Yeah!

just yesterday you wrote that 'Mr Obama walks tall because wisdom sits well and deep within this great man.'

Do not be disappointed when McCain wins

I think most people are looking for an effective health care plan regardless of whether it's from the government or insurance companies. Both have their problems right now and both haven't been able to find a solution.

ImperiumMundi,

...vote for obama if you actually think a community organizer and activist lawyer truly understands wealth creation and can relate to entrepreneurs.

Yep. If personal finance is the test, we can begin taking Washington's and Jefferson's faces off Mt. Rushmore. And never mind who Warren Buffet endorses. What would he know about wealth creation? Vote for the candidate who really understand wealth creation and gained his wealth the old-fashioned conservative way--born into it, married into it and at one time grafted into it.

I'd love to talk about real issues. Sarah Palin notwithstanding, Social Security and Medicare for retirees are real issues. Terrorists under the bed and living modestly in one's salad days are not.

I know this really isn't how things were supposed to happen, but even Ronald Reagan's son, Ron Reagan, is voting for Obama -

www.huffingtonpost.com/ron-reagan/making-it-official-i-endo_b_139932.html http://airamerica.com/ronreagan/blog/2008/oct/31/i-have-endorsement-make

Um, does that make Ron Reagan a traitor to the cause? :-)

Who are among the uninsured? 20 million illegal residents? Not really. More like 9 million (20% of 47 million). And why would we want them to go without treatment?

More facts at:

http://www.nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml

I'd love to talk about real issues. Sarah Palin notwithstanding, Social Security and Medicare for retirees are real issues.

Yes, lets talk......Social Security under Obama's plan.

Excerpt.......Wall Street Journal

To fill the hole in Social Security's finances, Mr. Obama would increase income taxes on high earners and pour that money into Social Security. This would be the first time that income tax revenues have been used to finance Social Security, which has always relied on its own dedicated payroll tax to differentiate itself from other government programs. Filling the gap with higher taxes on high earners would further increase Social Security's progressivity, pushing it closer toward a welfare-program approach.

Now, you haven't heard Mr. Obama describe anything like this plan. If you had, it's likely you wouldn't support it. But it's almost exactly what his headline "tax cut" would do. The Obama campaign took the idea described above and made it much more complicated.

Under the plan, which he claims would cut taxes for 95% of Americans, provides an income tax credit worth 6.2% of earnings up to $8,000, for a maximum credit of $500 per worker or $1,000 per couple. The 6.2% figure is important, because it matches the employee share of the Social Security payroll tax. Because around a third of Americans currently pay no income taxes -- a fraction that would rise to almost half under Mr. Obama's plan, according to the Tax Policy Center -- Mr. Obama's tax credits would be refundable, meaning you could collect the credit even if you paid no income taxes.

While Mr. Obama calls his plan "Making Work Pay," under standard economic assumptions his plan would actually discourage work for anyone earning over $8,000 per year. The tax credit itself would increase workers' take-home pay, an "income effect" that reduces incentives to work. Moreover, for workers in the $75,000 to $85,000 income range, where the tax credit is phased out at five cents for each dollar of additional income, this would add five percentage points to their marginal tax rate.

So Mr. Obama has in essence proposed cutting Social Security taxes for low earners, which would shift the system toward a "welfare" approach and sharply increase its long-term deficit. To fill the funding gap, he will raise taxes on high earners and funnel the money into Social Security, making the system even more progressive and breaking a long tradition against funding Social Security with income taxes.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122480907545265123.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

I know this really isn't how things were supposed to happen, but even Ronald Reagan's son, Ron Reagan, is voting for Obama -

again, is this supposed to change minds?

the important thing is you are voting for senator obama, right sushisake?

SushiSake3,

You might say that Ronald Reagan never voted for his son. Back in the day, I thought the word was that there was already a rift between them and that the elder Reagan was a bit disappointed in his son. So I'm not sure what Ron Reagan's vote really means.

Nonetheless, there have been a number of rather remarkable defections from traditionally Republican supporters. I think that it is still difficult to reach any real conclusion but, even the FOXNews website shows that the RCP average gives Obama a 7-point lead over McCain.

sailwind,

Was that you talking or was it the WSJ? Here's me talking on this issue:

I have long thought that the cap on earnings under the Social Security system was misconceived. I don't have any problem with keeping the Social Security as a self supporting system. However, I think the best--not the most political--but the best way to do that is to make all income subject to Social Security.

We basically have two choices, secure additional funding by some means or cut back on benefits. As Roosevelt said, he put those taxes in there so no d@mn politician could ever take the benefits away. The new recipients of benefits have been paying into the system all their lives. I'm fairly sure they want the promised benefits.

The other solution is to severely cut back on benefits. I think this is a terrible solution. Benefits are not overly generous. Where there are instances of too much generosity the benefits can be reduced but not by much. The purpose of the system is to provide a floor of protection for those who have worked in our society and it does that, but it remains a floor.

Now, if you'd like to have your WSJ representative speak to me, I'll be glad to listen.

Ask and you shall recieve.

He has his own personal blog. Feel free to leave comment and I'm sure he will respond.

www.andrewgbiggs.blogspot.com.

sailwind,

I guess it wasn't you who wanted to talk about real issues. My meaning was that I would like to talk about real issues here--or read the thoughts of people talking about real issues. If andrewbiggs would like to engage with me hear, I'll be happy to respond.

Meanwhile, I tried your link and was redirected here:

http://status.blogger.com/

I'll try again later, but I won't make a career out of it.

sarge

I love it when the conservatives complain about "Main Stream Media" and then post far right sources for pseudo information.

Example: sarge said, "Dude - 74% of CEO's believe Obama would be disastrous for the nation:" However the place he directs people for his source is "Elections and politics with a Conservative bent. If you're a political...blah blah blah."

Sezwho,

Go back to the original WSJ piece, At the bottom has his blog link. It's pretty interesting to read.

As far as my position on Social Security. I don't like either of Obama or McCain's plans. Though Obama's is the worst of the two.

McCain's position..........

Reform Social Security: John McCain will fight to save the future of Social Security and believes that we may meet our obligations to the retirees of today and the future without raising taxes. John McCain supports supplementing the current Social Security system with personal accounts -- but not as a substitute for addressing benefit promises that cannot be kept. John McCain will reach across the aisle, but if the Democrats do not act, he will. No problem is in more need of honesty than the looming financial challenges of entitlement programs. Americans have the right to know the truth and John McCain will not leave office without fixing the problems that threatens our future prosperity and power.

I do like the idea of supplementing the program with personal accounts. Though if it were up to me, I'd rather see people have the option of totally opting out of the system and pay out what they have contributed in one lump sum (Now there is a economic stimulus program for ya!). Those that opt to stay in will continue as the program was originally designed, a safety net for those that are in the lower end of our economy. Those that opt out will also be responsible for proving to the Government that they have already taken measures to ensure their own retirement, IRA contributions, Employee pension plans etc so there will be a check and balances on those who think they can just go back into the system and Uncle Sugar will take care of them after all. I would also like to see all money an individual invests in private retirement accounts be tax free and only able to withdrawn at say 65. I would also like to see the retirement accounts unable to be borrowed agaisnt as collateral for dodgy loans or financial sheel games that got into this mortgage mess.

Rough outline of my thoughts as to what to do with Social Security. I really don't like Obama's proposals at all. GoodDonkey mentioned a friend on another thread that was a lawyer still practicing at 74. I would really like to know that person's thoughts on Obama's plan after he saw it, I'm pretty sure a laywer would be at the high end of the income bracket and I would be curious if Obama's plan would make him think about quitting work after all with his tax bill on him for to pay for his Social security plan.

Anyway my thoughts on what I think we should do for ensuring our poorest elderly will always have a safety net and ensuring that those who decided to provide their own safety net have done it in such a manner to ensure their golden years are also financed,so they can enjoy all the hard work they have done over the years. For what it's worth.

sailwind said:

The Tax code is the single greatest way the federal Government can modify peoples behavior

What a total crock. My dad as well as countless other veterans of WWII got money for college and money for a house which he built himself although he was an electrical engineer at the time. These benefits completely transformed our economy into one with a massive increase in engineers and other college educated professionals. Over half of the WWII vets used these educational benefits.

FDR's programs modified people's behavior more than any tax cut or tax increase in history. It put food in peoples mouths and provided work. The war modified people's behavior even further.

"Taxes being the single greatest way," that's a joke. Just another baseless claim. I don't claim Obama is the messiah. On the other hand claims that his tax plan is welfare are ridiculous. It just shows how angry the conservatives (some who used to call themselves right of center) are because they finally have to give up power. Our lower middle class does not need proposals to encourage them to move up. They work their ass off. They are among the most productive workers in the world. If the jobs had not been shipped overseas they would have filled them. I am however not against globalization. We will figure this out. Bush's incentives were not for a modern economy of green technology and e-commerce. He supported the old economy concentrating on old oil methods when we should have been advancing. Other countries advanced and are now mass producing efficient energy sources.

My words are but mist that will burn off on a hot summer day because Obama will NEVER receive credit from these NeoCons.

SushiSake3 said:

One of the funniest things about this election in my view is that there are people out there who think that John McCain, who has been instrumental in creating the US economic crisis the entire world is now witnessing and being battered by, is somehow going to be the guy to fix it.

Obama has amazing economic advisers with great minds that already have great accomplishments racked up. I have already listed them ad nauseum.

goodDonkey,

First off your confused. Your father was a Veteran, he was a Government Employee. He fullfilled his obligation to the Government by putting on that uniform, he earned that benefit.

I'm a veteran, spent twenty years in Uniform and fullfilled my obligation to my contract and oath. For my service the Government also said that they would honor their end of that bargain by providing me benefits such as the G.I bill.

I gave, your father gave, we earned those benefits first not up front from the get go. Obama doesn't see it that way. You get the goodies first then maybe just maybe you'll turn out okay in the long run.

Now shouldn't we expect something in return from those in the lower middle class to give something up front also, before we shower them with goodies?

A catch that if they go to college that they don't get a tax break until after they graduate for starters???????? Maybe something along the line of the entire 4 your college bill refunded to the parents after the sheepskin is awarded????? That would pretty much ensure Junior stays in College after he enrolled, Mom and Dad or the single parent would make sure of it. And they would make sure Junior actually studied and showed up to class instead of keg parties. How's that for a little social engineering with the Tax code?

And how is that for proving that the Tax code is the most potent tool in the Fed's arsenal for changing social behavior. You don't think that idea of mine above wouldn't cause a whole lot of positive behavorial changes in families????

If you don't like my opinion that's fine, I just happen to try to think things through and try to look at the real social consequences of Obama's Tax plan. It isn't pretty in my opinion on the road it leads to.

Moderator: Back on topic please.

FDR's programs modified people's behavior more than any tax cut or tax increase in history.

some modern economists and historians blame his economic policies for prolonging the depression.

by 7 years.

yes, he definitely modified people's behavior. it's what 'liberals' enjoy doing most.

Old Man McCaiin's big mistake was choosing an amateur like Palin as running mate. Grave error of judgement.

Sushi - Arnold Schwarzenegger has endorsed McCain. Does that make him a traitor to the cause?

"Obama has amazing economic advisors with great minds"

Like Franklin Raines and Jim Johnson? Look 'em up, Donkey.

Old Man McCaiin's big mistake was choosing an amateur like Palin as running mate. Grave error of judgement.

we'll see. when the media's chosen one gets into office and can not deliver on expectations all the hype that 'change' has come to mean and like clinton he admits his tax plan was a lie yours are going up and when small businesses start laying off huge numbers and president obama fails in the int'l test of wills biden has insisted he will face in his first six months folks will review the media's treatment of sarah palin, ferraro and hillary clinton.

all to the benefit of palin, who by 2012 will be more than ready.

"when the media's chosen one gets into office"

That's still "if"!

Sarge: "Arnold Schwarzenegger has endorsed McCain. Does that make him a traitor to the cause?"

Nah, that just makes him predictable. He's always stood by Bush, too, hasn't he? Not sure what your point is. Is Arnie supposed to be liberal or something? Because the idea was, see, that Ron Reagan, being the son of the archetypal Republican president, you'd probably expect to vote Republican, too, right? So maybe his endorsement of Obama comes as some surprise -- like the endorsements of Buckley and a few other notable conservatives. Follow me? The only way your question would make any sense is if Schwarzenegger were considered a liberal or something, which to the best of my knowledge nobody thinks he is.

Different subject, but who was it cited a Fox News poll as evidence of a McCain comeback? I'm assuming that was sarcastic. Either way I got a good chuckle out of it.

"He's ( Schwarzenegger ) always stood by Bush, too, hasn't he?

No. Do some research and then come back here.

as regards taxes do obama's devoted fans recall his guarantee in the presidential debates?

households making less than $250,000 won't see taxes raised a dime.

but in obama's 30 minute informercial that preempted the final game of our national pastime he droppped it to $200,000

joe 'somebody stop me' biden on the campaign trail this week: 'rich' means you or the two of you make $150,000

and most recently new mexico governor bill richardson informs the country the limit is down to $120,000.

Great post Sarge. well informed as ever.

i wish i could say obama inspired confidence. this montage of him in the senate (where is the fabled eloquence?) makes me despair for America

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah9W24oMIRc

Sarge: OK, Arnie has gone against Bush on a few issues (I did my research, and came back, as per your kind suggestion). I'd say I stand corrected, but since I originally phrased it as a question, there's really no need. I guess I was just remembering him plumping for W in 2004. But my original point stands: What I'm saying is, Arnie's not breaking any surprising ground by getting behind McCain. Did you think he would endorse Obama?

Do you suspect the Terminator of being a closet liberal???

well, as predicted over six months ago obama is about to become president. all thanks go to bush and his neocon corrupt buddies who failed at everything they attempted, fully supported by the clueless wingnut crowd on this board. At least now they admit defeat. But defeat is not strong enough. The USA voters will punish the repubs for their corruption, their incompetence and their insane religious zealotry. Within days of the landslide the repub party will divide into the palinites and the semi-normal repubs like mccain. The repubs will be out of office for a long, long time and if all goes well the party may permanently split into the palanites and the biz types. Of course that will be great for America and the world if it does happen.

bush destroyed the party and mccain hammered in the last nail in choosing bible spice. Good riddenance.

And I must say my work is nearly done on JT. Shooting down the repub loser crowd for years now has been too easy really. But now that their little world is now being torn to shreds there is no purpose any longer in pointing out how stupid their leaders are and how total the failure has been. Bush is now the most unpopular President ever and he will go into the trashheap of history starting next week. Its all over. Liberals have triumped.

Sailwind,

Most people already have personal accounts to supplement social security in the form of 401(k)s or the public sector equivalent. But the market's tumble has resulted in a "destruction of wealth" unprecedented since the Great Depression. If you're a retiree, you can't make up what you've lost.

Entitlement spending has gone up under GWB, most notably his prescription drug plan for seniors. This represents an enormous about face for the Republican Party. Perhaps you remember Sarah Palin closing her acceptance speech with a quotation from Ronald Reagan who said that:

freedom is always just one generation away from extinction. We don’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream; we have to fight for it and protect it, and then hand it to them so that they shall do the same, or we’re going to find ourselves spending our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children about a time in America, back in the day, when men and women were free.

In fact he was not referring to an outside threat but the passage of Medicare. The language seems ludicrous today. I mean do you want to pay your own way as a senior citizen for medical bills? Few could contemplate it.

My own view is that Republicans consider programs which personally benefit them to be "vital," whereas those that benefit others can be cut. Sarah Palin recently spoke compellingly about fully funding the Americans With Disabilities Act. Of course her youngest child would stand to benefit. Had he not come into her life, how interested do you think she would be in putting public money into social programs for the disabled?

The election is almost over. I just wanted to share a side of McCain that most folks really don't know about and maybe never will even after the election.

He's........well watch the video and put the politics aside. If he prevails Tuesday of course I will be happy. If Obama prevails I will wish him the best and hope that my fears are unfounded as to what kind of President I'm afraid he will turn out to be. Though the American people always seem to right the ship after a bad President with the mid-terms. So If he prevails I will be one of his staunchest critics if he goes full tilt left wing liberal. If he goes centrist and stays there then I will be in full support of him. I have serious doubts if that will be the case though. We will see.

Though as the campaign winds down I did want to show a side of McCain that may not quite fit many folks here on J.T have of the man. He's got a real unscripted sense of humor and I'm glad he hasn't lost it and hope he never does.

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=4PTWfRRJ8ZQ

sailwind,

People have always supplemented Social Security with personal accounts. The personal accounts haven't been sufficient. Letting people accumulate funds tax free would help, but funds accumulated there will not provide substantial benefits for most low wage earners and releasing higher wage earners from payment will exacerbate the funding problem of the Social Security system.

"Personal accounts" sounds good--all very individually responsible and what have you. But for the same reasons that individual savings programs never worked to provide a safety net for workers, especially lower income workers, the personal account system will bankrupt Social Security, leave lower income workers with very little and benefit primarily the higher income earners.

In addition to that, low-income workers are ill-suited to bear the investment risks--as we can see what happened with Enron, what happened when the IT bubble burst and what has recently happened. Savings in inappropriate instruments can be halved or more in weeks. If that occurs at a time when workers should be annuitizing they will be out of luck.

Obama's focus is on the purpose for which Social Security was established--to provide a basic floor of retirement income for workers, recognizing workers contribution to national productivity and giving something back, giving a sense of entitlement (warning! warning! big scary word!) instead of a sense of charity, and committing the government to doing what it--and it alone--can do best: ensuring that those who have contributed to society and who have worked do not have live their non-productive years in poverty.

If Obama has his way, the Social Security deductions probably will become larger for Americans who can afford them. However, the program will remain. McCain's plan is a course to the destruction of the system and to ideologically imposed social insecurity.

SezWho,

The problem in discussing the elderly is that they overwhelmingly fall into either end of the economic spectrum, or at least that was the case before the market tumbled. Yet program eligibility is open to everyone because, like Joe the Plumber pointed out, how can some bureaucrat determined when someone's rich enough to pay more taxes?

Those who built up enormous equity in real estate, for example, probably can afford to shoulder more of the bill for their golden years. Those who labored in the service economy obviously cannot.

Betzee,

Of course her youngest child would stand to benefit. Had he not come into her life, how interested do you think she would be in putting public money into social programs for the disabled?

I'd say very interested prior to Trig being born.

Palin did not cut funding for special needs education in Alaska by 62 percent. She didn’t cut it at all. In fact, she increased funding and signed a bill that will triple per-pupil funding over three years for special needs students with high-cost requirements.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html

"Obama confident, McCain seeks upset"

I'm confident, too. Already have a bottle of fine wine in the fridge to crack open on election day to celebrate the coming Obama victory.

Any GOP supporters want to come around for a few drinks? :-)

Do you remember the stupid video that got released where george bush was mocking the search for WMD by looking under his desk and in a trash can in the Oval Office?

That's John McCain looking for a presidential victory. < :-)

The Democratic candidate “has no knowledge of her status but obviously believes that any and all appropriate laws be followed”

Instead of doing the right thing by sponsoring her and moving her into his $100,000 Chicago mansion, obama instead pitches Auntie under the bus.

Looks like obama is quite a hypocrite. He bitches about others not "spreading their wealth around" but does not even take care of his own family when he has more than enough means to.

Heh, yet, people actually believe that he can take care of America when he doesn't even take care of his own family.

sailwind - >I get to pay for someone elses kid to go to college? How nice just gives me less of a reason to work harder and save more to put my own kid through instead. Why should I when some else is going to pick up the tab..........Understand my original points now?

Nope, in fact I don't see much of a point at all. Let me rephrase my question: Even if someone else pays your kid's college tuition, how is that going to help your kid do the hard work and study needed to graduate?

According to Bloomberg News, McCain is more hawkish than Bush on Iraq, Russia and China. Conservative columnist Pat Buchanan says McCain "will make Cheney look like Gandhi." "His temper would place this country at risk in international affairs, and the world perhaps in danger. In my mind, that should disqualify him." - Former Senator Bob Smith, R-NH "The thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine. He is erratic." - Senator Thad Cochran, R-MS "I decided I didn't want this guy anywhere near a trigger." - Senator Pete Domenici, R-NM "There's nothing redeeming about John McCain...he's a hypocrite." - Former House GOP Whip Tom DeLay "He is a vicious person. They so disliked him that they wouldn't support him." - Former Representative Charles LeBoutillier, R-NY "What happens if he gets angry in crisis in the presidency? It's the president's job to negotiate and stay calm. I just don't see that he has that quality." - Former Arizona GOP Chairman John Hinz "John McCain is Bob Dole minus the charm, conservatism, and youth. Unlike McCain, Dole didn't lie all the time while claiming to engage in 'straight talk.'" - Conservative Ann Coulter "Hardheaded is one way to say it. Arrogant is another way to say it. Hubristic is another way to say it. Too proud for his own good is another way to say it. It's a quality about him that disturbs me." - Larry Wilkerson, former chief aide to Colin Powell An "embarrassment to the party." - Arizona GOP State Senator Susan Johnson "I don't like him at all." - Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-CO "It just seems like everything we did, John was someplace else...In my mind, he is not a conservative." - Former House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-IL

"He is the anti-conservative. He instinctively sides against conservatives and relishes poking them in the eye." - Conservative David Limbaugh "If either John McCain or Mike Huckabee gets the nomination, it's going to destroy the Republican Party, it's going to change it forever, be the end of it." - Conservative Rush Limbaugh

Betzee,

I'm sorry. I don't understand your point.

I don't agree that the elderly tend to fall into either end of the wealth spectrum. I think there is a middle class--included in which, for example, are my parents, both retired teachers. I also think that poverty among the elderly is much higher than in the population as a whole.

The election is almost over. I just wanted to share a side of McCain that most folks really don't know about and maybe never will even after the election. He's........well watch the video and put the politics aside. If he prevails Tuesday of course I will be happy. If Obama prevails I will wish him the best and hope that my fears are unfounded as to what kind of President I'm afraid he will turn out to be.

Well, you can't really say much fairer than that. I think a few other posters would do well to take heed. Personally, when the people I support lose election, I always try to tell myself that the other lot might not be so bad after all. Usually they are, but what can you do.

Even if someone else pays your kid's college tuition, how is that going to help your kid do the hard work and study needed to graduate?

Answer: The Government is going to take that on as well, sheesh can't a guy get an entire free ride from all individual responsibilty. Next thing you now you might think they should join the Military or something similar first before they get a civilian version of a G.I bill.

Or better yet, how about since your in the "cough cough" military you transfer some of the portion of the G.I bill you earned as a bennie for joining and your not going to use into the pot to help out also.

Seems fair

Slackers for Obama 08!

UdMan - I see you did some research. No, I didn't think Arnie would endorse Obama.

sail - "Slackers for Obama"

Har!

Hmm, the gov't is going to "take on" the study required for a degree? Where do you get that lame-brained idea? "Cough cough" military, huh? Whatever, dude. BTW, I opted out of the GI Bill; already have a Bachelor's Degree. Slackers for Obama? You just called the vast majority of the US military slackers. But hey, that's OK; we've been through far worse.

Sorry for raising too adult a question for you, sailwind. I had hoped for rational dialogue, but I received the same trash trolls like sarge spew. Won't make that mistake again.

You just called the vast majority of the US military slackers. But hey, that's OK; we've been through far worse.

Nah.....I implied young people that aren't or never served in the Military are for most part slackers. By the way USAFdude your talking to a Vet that served twenty years in the Navy and recently retired. 3 of those years were spent as a Recruiter for the Navy.

Working college campuses and local High Schools. I know of what I speak. We didn't call our potential recruits the "Play Station" generation with out good reason.

You've been through far worse? I'd rather be deployed to the Persian Gulf (been there done that) before I'd go through a recruiting tour again.

Have a fine Navy day.

Moderator: Back on topic please.

Sailwind - good to speak with a colleague who's been to the desert, like me. Now start talking like one, sailor.

Just because I (and the vast majority of my colleagues in the US military) disagree with you doesn't give you license to cast doubt on my service. While I would love to be younger, I'm a bit older than the PlayStation generation you mentioned. A few more years, and I'll join you as a retiree.

So, recruiting tours were worse than the Gulf, huh? Well, if that's your attitude, thanks for your service and good luck. Glad my generation of the military is a bit more professional than you were.

just because I (and the vast majority of my colleagues in the US military) disagree with you doesn't give you license to cast doubt on my service.

isn't the internet fun? we can all pretend to be whatever we want.

Yep, it's fun. Some of us, like me, can even be honest. How 'bout you?

But then again, you could pretend like your tax dollars don't pay for my base pay, right?

thread title:

Obama confident, McCain seeks upset Sunday 02nd November, 04:03 AM JST

completely irrelevant post:

"Sailwind - good to speak with a colleague who's been to the desert, like me. Now start talking like one, sailor. Just because I (and the vast majority of my colleagues in the US military) disagree with you doesn't give you license to cast doubt on my service. While I would love to be younger, I'm a bit older than the PlayStation generation you mentioned. A few more years, and I'll join you as a retiree. So, recruiting tours were worse than the Gulf, huh? Well, if that's your attitude, thanks for your service and good luck. Glad my generation of the military is a bit more professional than you were."

Completely irrelevant? How so? I asked a perfectly "on-topic" question. Or do you prefer to pretend my statement was irrelevant? xD

Mod......I have to respond to this.

So, recruiting tours were worse than the Gulf, huh? Well, if that's your attitude, thanks for your service and good luck. Glad my generation of the military is a bit more professional than you were.

All branches screen potential Recruiters before they are even selected to go out in the field. You have to be the very best of the best as you are the public face of the Navy or Army or Air Force or Marines. You are the one the public sees and judges not "Top Gun".

Joining the Military is one of the most life altering decisions a person will ever make. It is on par with getting married. As a recruiter you have to be the Father, Big Brother, Confessor, Counselor, you name it to each and every one of your applicants. You invest your entire emotional energy and do everything in your power to let the applicant know he or she made the right decision in making the commitment to serve our country. I placed over 70 people in the Navy during my tour, from all economic backgrounds and I did it professionally and with Honor.

Your generation of the military is a "bit more professional than you were" because of the people I placed in it.

Stand down on the attempt to impugn my integrity or my service.

Thank you Mod for the courtesy of letting this post stand in response.

Touched a nerve, did I? Yep, I know about recruiters, sailwind; worked with one when I joined.

Your generation of the military is a "bit more professional than you were" because of the people I placed in it.

All 70 of them? I've worked with a bit more than that, my friend.

Stand down on the attempt to impugn my integrity or my service.

Practice what you preach.

Mod, thank you for letting this statement stand in my defense against the unwarranted accusations of some of your other posters.

RomeoRamen,

"Instead of doing the right thing by sponsoring [his Aunt] and moving her into his $100,000 Chicago mansion, obama instead pitches Auntie under the bus. Looks like obama is quite a hypocrite. He bitches about others not "spreading their wealth around" but does not even take care of his own family when he has more than enough means to.

Oh, yes. Willfully and knowingly harbor and illegal alien. Wouldn't the GOP just have a field day with that one. Aren't you simply precious? You're still really trying, after all this time. Now, apparently, Obama hates his own family? What's next? He kicks puppies for fun?

ImperiumMundi,

Thanks for selflessly stepping up into the shoes of the Mod, but the conversation regarding military service, G.I. Bills, and whether Obama supporters, including some members of the military posting here, are slackers or not is a two-sided one. Sailwind seems to be pulling his/her weight here too.

Not that a fact like that would make any difference in your worldview. Stick to only those facts that keep the world looking rosey for you and yours alone, right? It's been the backbone of the Republican strategy against Obama from the get-go. BTW, how's that workin' out for ya'?

game, set, match to sailwind

thanks for playing, dude.

getting back to the topic - politico shows obama's lead continually shrinking.

how can this be? the media's chosen one has spent a billion dollars getting himself elected. he preempted the final game of the national pastime with an unprecedented thirty minute big brother infomercial tv viewers across the country were horrified to find running on all three major networks.

"The economic policies of the last eight years are the cause of the economic crisis we find ourselves in now," Biden said, his voice rising. "John — as my mother would say, God love him — continues to cling, cling to those same economic policies."

Let's not forget about the trillion dollar war that will never end in Iraq. Voting for McCain is a One Way Ticket to destruction ! McCain's Middle Name is Self Destruction !!!!!!

USAdude, ImperiumMundi,

Gave my views on Obama's plan for free tuition tax credits for civilians. Based it my own personal experiences and why I think they are a bad idea. There is only give in his proposal with no giving back. I used the G.I bill as the perfect example. I am all for helping others achieve more than they could be alone. I am not for a free lunch though. Before I would even consider giving free tuition I want some type of system in place the shows we are not throwing money away so Junior can party at School.

Things like has to working part time in Americorp or some other sanctioned Government local or state service. Has to maintain at least a C average, has to actually Attend classes or some other proof that Junior is serious about getting that degree prior to awarding such a bennie, things along those lines.

I don't think these are unreasonable in the least. As far as security clearances or any other ammunition you want to try to tie me in smearing Obama I refuse to play. Obama is a good man and a good American, he is just one who's politics I can't find any common ground with. I have come to my own decisions about Obama it's thumbs down and I have already given my reasons why.

USAFdude, you may very well be in the Service, though I would suggest that you quit saying you speak for all Military members that they all for Obama.

Service members throughout my entire career have always kept their politics pretty close to themselves, part of maintaining that unit cohesiveness thing. That is what I find striking and has put some doubts in my mind about your veracity. If I'm wrong I apologize. Your in a different outfit then I ever was if politics is the forefront of your discussions with your fellow Airman. We usually never talk politics or religion and in fact were discouraged from it.

That is where that is comming from, just my personal experience again talking.

I am not really worried about, " Who has the most mansions ? " Or who's wife is the most richest ? What most concerns me is which President will help " AMERICA " Not himself. Elections is 2 DAYS AWAY !!!!!! I am not following any polls. My eyes are Fixed on CNN Election night. Which is good for us living in japan because we will know the winner by lunch time Japan time. WEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee !!!!!!!!!!!!

Sailwind, apology accepted. For the record, I do not speak for ALL military members, only those with whom I frequently come into contact. In my AFSC (MOS for Navy), I meet quite a few troops, and the vast majority support Obama. Others may very well support McCain, but in my experience, whatever that's worth, the most I've met support Obama. Not meant as a slam, just a statement of experience.

In the same breath, I see nothing at all with stating what I've seen in my experience on this site. Disagreement is all well and good; in fact, the moderators here frequently write of raising the level of discussion. It's when certain trolls start impugning my service or integrity or honesty that I give back as good as I get. If that impugning was not your intent, please accept my apologies.

Seems it doesn't matter that, thanks to George W. Bush, Saddam Hussein is no longer running Iraq into the ground and Iraq and the world is better off for it, and that all Americans who pay taxes have benefited from Bush's tax cuts. The Iraq war is unpopular, and Bush and the Republican Party have been blamed for the financial crisis caused mainly by Democrat policies. McCain is toast. I can only hope that Biden is wrong about Obama being tested by a major international crisis within the first six months of his presidency. I don't think he's up to it.

I want to thank all current and former military for their service. Regardless of your branch or your MOS, thank you.

Sarge: "McCain is toast."

Finally - reality bites. Now realise that you and the US are going to be a lot better off in the long run under Obama than you would be voting for more republican failure.

I simply don't think many Americans, faced with ever tougher financial times thanks to Bush's profligacy and negligence, really care that much about the removal Saddam Hussein any more. True patriots care about their own country first, not about defending their Saudi pals against regional threats. But if you see that as a reason to vote for McCain and the Alaskan separatist crazy woman, go for it - it simply illustrates how out of touch you are

Sarge, what the hell has gotten into you buddy?

The good fight is still on, and i predict an upset. Yes folks McCain WILL win.

Dems stay at home ,no point voting, REpublicans get out on mass and be victorious again.

The good fight is still on, and i predict an upset.

...of McCain's oxygen tank.

ptolemy - You're welcome.

Nessie: "of McCain's oxygen tank"

McCain doesn't need an oxygen tank. Don't give up your day job.

Cap'n USA - By golly, you're right, I don't know what got into me! Never give up! Never surrender!

frontandcentre - Obama is toast!

Seems it doesn't matter that, thanks to George W. Bush, Saddam Hussein is no longer running Iraq into the ground and Iraq and the world is better off for it, and that all Americans who pay taxes have benefited from Bush's tax cuts.

No, it doesn't. John McCain himself basically wants nothing to do with the guy. American soldiers are still dying in Iraq and Afghanistan. Al Qaeda and the Taliban are still out there, neither Osama Bin Laden nor Mullah Omar have been brought to justice. No matter who caused the financial crisis (you're probably right that the Democrats deserve at least some of the blame), the administration has responded to it just about as effectively as they did to Hurricane Katrina. And didn't the tax cuts cause a dramatic reduction in revenue while federal spending was increased by 26%? Someone explain to me how that can possibly be a good thing. And can it be plausibly denied that the 2001, 2002 and 2003 tax cuts basically favoured the wealthy at the expense of the middle and working classes? The general perception seems to be that they did. If you're expecting any expressions of heartfelt thanks for Mr. Bush's services to America and the world, you're going to be waiting a long, long time. Probably as long as it'll take for the poor schmo who takes over to clean up the mess that's been made in the last eight years. Up until around 2000 or so, people around the world basically looked up to America. Thanks to George W. Bush, not any more.

My prediction: Obama 310 - McClain 228.

It doesn't really matter. They both represent the plutocracy. Anyone who votes is wasting their time, unless they are able to pick up a nice babe standing in line.

Up until around 2000 or so, people around the world basically looked up to America. Thanks to George W. Bush, not any more.

whatever. America is more popular than ever in india. i don't sense any change here in japan, as far as US-japan relations go. china may not like us but they need us to buy what they make. bush did more for africa than any US president. even clowns like bono and geldof admit it. no country comes near matching us for charity given to that continent.

so that basically leaves europe and canada.

most Americans realize it's more about envy with those two.

Bad news for Obama: it's raining - always good for Republicans. Low-income people like Obama's aunt hate standing in the rain waiting hours to vote.

Obama got 71% of Dixville Notch, New Hampshire. Polls there already closed.

It's being reported that Karl Rove is predicting an electoral landslide victory for Senator Barack Obama.

The stage is set and there's not a cloud in the Obama sky.Should start looking for a VIABLE candidate for '12.Unless people really think flallin' Palin is.

sarge has one lucid moment and then he backtracks into the repub fantasy world. Too bad.

As predicted, landslide. The voters of America are rejected 100 percent the failures in Iraq and in the US by bush and his criminal republican party. Only the incompetence of bush could get a first term liberal black senator elected to the Presidency. For that we liberals thank you!

Lets face it, repubs cannot lead government, they can only follow. If they survive this election cycle they can be a part of a revolution in government for the US as lead by Barack and the progressive democratic party.

"Obama got 71% of Dixville Notch, New Hampshire"

Well, that's it, then.

"Only the incompetence of bush could get a first term liberal senator elected to the Presidency"

You mean only the financial crisis caused by the liberals could get a first term liberal half black community agonizer who can't bring himself to do anything for his own half brother and aunt elected to the presidency.

Refer to my 7:20 AM post.

Ruben Navarette, a conservative with a syndicated column, had this to say about where McCain-Palin made a wrong turn:

McCain and Palin were handed a possible reprieve by the "spread the wealth" incident but then they blew it. That's because they became consumed with painting Obama as a socialist. And that's where they lost many Americans, including those who are tired of name-calling and perhaps those who recognize that other popular government entitlements — farm subsidies, Medicare, Social Security, etc. — could just as easily be labeled socialism.

He goes on to say they should have emphasized you shouldn't expect something for nothing. But when did Barack Obama every suggest he was going to do that? What got obscured in the debate was that the purpose of taxation, which is not to redistribute wealth but to pay for our federal government. The question is how to do that fairly. Governments which rely on a fixed rate tax, advocated by some posters, usually have another source of income such as from a natural resource like oil. So they are socialist or mixed economies.

By contrast, a progressive tax code has been a fundamental feature among the intellectual founding fathers of free-market capitalists such as Adam Smith, who wrote in in The Wealth of Nations: "It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue but something more than in that proportion."

Once the Uncle Sam undertook social responsibilities the government got into wealth redistribution. This was premised on the belief that providing a benefit to some subset of the population benefited the whole. You can certainly argue whether specific programs achieved that objective, or even with the premise itself, though I know of no one who doesn't utilize some service provided by Uncle at some point in their lives. But this is how public money being spent on such programs as a prescription drug subsidy for the elderly or education for the disabled is being spent. So it was quite strange to hear Sarah Palin denouncing Obama's "socialist agenda" in one breath while assuring Sunshine state retirees social security and medicare benefits would not be touched in the next.

Sailwind,

According to the posting of a mother of a disabled child critical of Sarah Palin commitment to the disabled: In the US, thanks to cuts in Medicaid spending, including substantial ones for the kinds of social services that would help young adults with disabilities have satisfying lives, the lives of these former special needs babies, whose parents also felt "unspeakable joy" and believed they were" truly blessed" are often bleak.

McCain committed himself to cutting all but "vital government spending" if elected and Palin proposed fully funding the Americans with Disabilities Act the next day. I doubt she would see this as "vital" had Trig not come into her life.

I edited the last paragraph of my above post:

Once Uncle Sam undertook social responsibilities the government got into the business of wealth redistribution. It was premised on the belief that providing a benefit to some subset of the population benefited the whole. You can certainly argue over whether specific programs achieved that objective, or even with the premise itself, though I know of no one who doesn't utilize some service provided by Uncle Sam at some point in their lives. But this is the underlying rationale for spending public money on such programs as a prescription drug subsidy for the elderly or education for the disabled. So it was quite strange to hear Sarah Palin denouncing Obama's "socialist agenda" in one breath while assuring Sunshine State retirees Social Security and Medicare benefits would not be touched in the next.

Had McCain run like a Republican, and not as an Independent with a GOP Sticker, he may have won. Had he campaigned like President Reagan in 80 and84, instead of Senator Dole in `96, Obama would have been a twenty-point loser. As it is, he and his leaky advisers better say "Thank you!" to Sarah Palin, the Alaska Governor and his running mate, instead of stabbing her in the back, because without Gov. Palin, Sen. McCain wouldn't have gathered nearly so many states nor electoral votes: it would have been a landslide for Obama had McCain not chosen Gov. Palin.