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Obama, Democrats reach out to female voters

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How well are women doing when their husbands are out of work?

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In Seattle on Thursday, Obama told local women and others that “how well women do will help determine how well our families are doing as a whole.”

Yes, ladies, take it from the leader of a party that since LBJ has done all it can to destroy the family and make gubmint yo daddy.

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Tim, again you and I have to fight it out on a thread. Stop the rhetoric. Both parties have done very little for families. The GOP benefit the rich, hardly helping the average family. And the DEMs have failed to do much for family either. Feel better hearing this?

What Americans need is a change in the political water. Enough of the short term highschool sports attitude of us vs them politics. America needs to learn that change takes time, focus and patience. Less than two years on from a major mandate shift, no reasonable person can expect the problems created in decades would be solved in so short a time. Anyone expecting miracles should stick to comic books and leave reality to people with their feet solidly on the ground.

The T-party will do nothing for American working class people. They offer the "values" card but back it up with nothing tangible. The only beneficiaries of a right wing return to power will be big business. Working people will remain out in the rain without an umbrella. And as long as the pendulum swings back so quickly nothing will improve for any family.

I do trust the women of America to have more common sense than to buy into this T-party hysteria. Obama is right to call upon women. Afterall, they do indeed form the spine that holds out country up.

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He's dangling all the sparkly bits... But without light, you only see the strings...

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pamelot. Hardly. On the contrary it is the T-party and their empty, platformless rhetoric who are dangling sparkly bits to the uninformed in an effort to blind them into voting in a government that will be absolutely deadlocked.

They play to the impatience and immaturity of the political right with slogans like "christian values", "family values", "immigration" but without a single tangible set of solutions that anyone can really evaluate.

This is bubblegum wrapper politics, wrapped in colored pictures to dazzel the right and nothing but unhealthy sugar in the middle to rot your teeth.

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They play to the impatience

LOL! the new Dem talking point - "yeah we suck now, but just wait!"

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manfromamerica. American's problems have taken considerable time to create. Do you and your right wing friends really think that you can resolve all these problems in just two short years? Especially when there has been so little cooperation with the efforts of the government to address problems?

First of all you cannot attribute anything I say to the DEMs. I am not a Democrat. What you can attribute my statements to is me. And I firmly believe that it is politial impatience and immaturity that is making the American political world swing so quickly between the two narrow sides that nothing can have time to happen.

In the end this impatience will render any government incapable of executing any kind of meaningful policy. So our political world becomes all about rhetoric and flash and the working people will continue to see their conditions deteriorate.

I am still waiting for your side to offer up a single tangible platform plan for just how you plan to make the working class's problems improve. Put up if you can. But I expect you cannot.

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tkoind2 - i see, the old talking point "Bush's fault". LOL

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First of all you cannot attribute anything I say to the DEMs. I am not a Democrat. What you can attribute my statements to is me. And I firmly believe that it is politial impatience and immaturity that is making the American political world swing so quickly between the two narrow sides that nothing can have time to happen.

man, you parrot the Demo points and Gibbs. How far does Obama have to wreck the economy and the country before you think it's time to fix it?

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Didn't invoke Bush you did. The problems in America go back a long time before Brother Bush added his two cents of idiocy to the mix.

As for wrecking the country. Brother it has been wrecked for some time now and getting worst. You need a longer view than just the last two years if you want to understand anything worth while.

Working class people have been on the crap end of the stick for a very long time. A stick that is pushing farther down into the filth of poverty, economic oblivion and hardship.

People don't need catch phrases. They need jobs, health care, community programs and opportunities. They need to be less exploited by the wealthy and have more opportunity to improve their lives. They need less manipulation and more participation in their communities and lives. They need their kids at home and not dying in pointless wars.

You still have not offered a single argument other than to point fingers at the other side. Where the hell are your policies friend?!? Just one! If you can't lay out one practical policy statement with tangible deliverables and key points, then what the hell does your party stand for?

Any idiot can stand on a soap box and call the other guy names. But it takes real thought and planning to stand up and offer real solid solutions to real human problems. I don't hear anything from this so called T-party that offers anything other than contrarian BS.

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tkoind2 : Here's my sparkly Gadsden: Don't tread on me.

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Working class people have been on the crap end of the stick for a very long time. A stick that is pushing farther down into the filth of poverty, economic oblivion and hardship... They need to be less exploited by the wealthy

Wow! Colorful communist rhetoric!

have more opportunity to improve their lives.

it's called capitalism and economic freedom, not higher taxes and a nanny state.

:-)

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tkoind2 - How far does BO have to wreck the economy and the country before you think it's time to fix it? what is a reasonable waiting period?

Moderator: Please do not refer to Obama as BO.

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This is the high water point for the GOP. No new ideas and all the old ideas wont work in this scenario.

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manfromamerica. So now I am a communist because I care about the welfare of working class people? You don't need a communist to tell you that things for working families have gotten worst. You just need someone who is a awake and paying attention. Why can't you see this?

As for Capitalism improving the lives of people. Then please explain why the last 20+ years have seen the working class in America under increasing economic pressure? Why fewer families can send kids to college and why so many are fallen into poverty despite their passionate desire to work.

Again rhetoric and nothing solid. Don't you have anything tangible to offer. You are great at calling names, but show no grasp of economics, history, current affairs and no understanding of the working class.

BO is not responsible for the mess in the economy. It was already there. Do you not read? Two years we have not seen adequate time for anything to change. Just because you expect the world to deliver your dreams in MacDonald's time frames, does not mean reality is capable of doing so. Change takes time and patience. Rational, educated people understand this. The rabid T-party crowd are too hyped up for the big election game to see anything other than their own BS.

Where are your policy platforms and plan? I keep asking the same question and not one of you has been able to step up with anthing at all. Says a lot about your party and about your understanding of what needs to be done. Zero!

Moderator: Readers, please do not refer to Obama as BO. From here on, posts that do so will be removed.

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@manfromamerica

Again, you use the word "communist" as an insult. Plenty would be proud to be called it, a lot of them excsllent human beings. It's like the tea-party folks using "socialist" like it's a bad thing. Me? I'm (Christian-) socialist and proud of it.

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Obama attracted a bigger crowd than the 10,000 who could fit into the arena.

While the rest of the country continues to see that Obama's far left agenda is doing nothing to fix or improve anything for anyone, the folks up in Washington State still find him attractive.

Heh, the lack of sunshine there is having a very negative effect on their brains.

RR

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you use the word "communist" as an insult.

I didn't use it as an insult, that's your reading. I used it as fact. the fact also is that the communist/socialist agenda is exactly what oppresses people.

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Funny. Another day where none of the progressive crowd here is touting what Obama Reid Pelosi have done. Instead, they defend his stealth attempts to turn us into Europe, even as Europe is turning away from its socialism lite model.

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Working class people have been on the crap end of the stick for a very long time. A stick that is pushing farther down into the filth of poverty, economic oblivion and hardship... They need to be less exploited by the wealthy

So why do all the Mexicans keep coming? And even if you can answer that to your ideological satisfaction (Da evil capitalists is luring them across da border!) , why are Obama and the Dems making it easier than ever for them to come and be "exploited"?

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Calling the Obama administration leftist, communist or socialist shows a great deal of ignorance, not only of your own government but also the understanding of society. Obama is far more capable than almost all previous presidents and can reform the US ready for the new world order.

Those who consider republicans should look first at the legacy of war, social disorder and bankruptcy they always leave behind. The current mess is a republican mess.

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"In a last-ditch effort to avoid electoral disaster"

How could this election possibly be a disaster for the Democrats? Haven't they been leading the country in the right direction?

"A lot of women are undecided"

Those are the wishy-washy women.

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RR -

While the rest of the country continues to see that Obama's far left agenda is doing nothing to fix or improve anything for anyone, the folks up in Washington State still find him attractive.

This administration just completed the largest arms deal in history - 60 billion dollars worth of planes and weapons to freakin Saudi Arabia.

You can be sure that plenty of that business will benefit the latte liberal crowd in the Pac Northwest.

Hypocrisy - Dems wrote the effin book.

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60 billion? That should create some jobs !

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"So why do all the Mexicans keep coming?" Tim, really do I need to keep thrashing you every day here?

Because crap is relative. The dirt poor conditions of working people in America may still look better to some people with less. I would think that economic disparity would be another thing that would be patently obvious.

People world wide migrate to where they can make enough to eat. If you are dirt poor in Mexico, a low paying job in Texas may seem very attractive. got it?

Look GOP and T-party people. We are all still waiting for you to outline your solitions. I have posted the question here again and again and all we get from you are more sound bites. Bottom line, put up your solutions or how can anyone take you seriously. Any idiot can point fingers. But it takes real intelligence to offer up tangible solutions to real problems.

So prove me wrong! Show me your solutions in detail and defend them. Waiting people... waiting.... waiting.... waiting.... waiting....

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If you are dirt poor in Mexico, a low paying job in Texas may seem very attractive. got it?

Texas literally created half the new jobs in America in the last year. Funny, that. California, on the other hand, lost 112,000 jobs in the last year. Both have large Mexican populations, but one state is heavily Republican, the other is Democrat.

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"Women could hold the key for Obama and his party"

The majority of women voters who voted for Obama in 2008 can begin to rectify their gargantuan mistake by voting out the Democrats in this election.

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Women could hold the key for Obama and his party

That's the same party that dissed them in the last general election when Hillary was actually winning all the primaries after Super Tuesday yet still gave the nod to Obama?

Too funny.

RR

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@ Klein2: Sour grape cocktail, with an elitist twist?

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Calling the Obama administration leftist, communist or socialist shows a great deal of ignorance, not only of your own government but also the understanding of society. Obama is far more capable than almost all previous presidents

LOL! :-D BO is capable of... what??

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The GOP does not care about women or the Tea Party. And the Tea Party does not care about women.

???? I see you pulled that out of nowhere. How do you back that up exactly?

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Tim, show me the link for that Texas claim. Don't believe you. Even if true, what kind of jobs are we talking about? Sustainable good paying jobs or minor low income jobs? Details, details!!! You still have not given me any details on your solutions to the problems. I guess the T-party haven't shared their ideas with anyone yet. Or they don't have any ideas.

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Tim, show me the link for that Texas claim.

Tkoind2 seems determined to show us that what folks say about young American Liberals and the "learned helplessness" they are afflicted with (and which makes competitive victimhood so attractive for them) is true.

Do the search yourself.

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manfromamerica. We still have not heard what your T-party is capable of. I think you and Tim don't have a clue how that party plans to sort out the economy, jobs etc... You voting based solely upon a bunch of propaganda slogans with no clue about how they plan to address problems.

Blind leading the blind. At least Obama had the good sense to lay his plan on the table. Like it or not, at least the man has a detailed plan. Sarah Palin and that lot can't seem to generate more than rabid sound bites and incorrect interpretations of the constitution.

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manfromamerica. We still have not heard what your T-party is capable of.

Really? Do you read the news? The platforms and plans are very clear, even though you try to ignore it.

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In a last-ditch effort to avoid electoral disaster

But, but, but ... liberals shriek at the top of their lungs that Obama and the democrats have done a wonderful job leading America.

The democrats' drubbin' is a comin'.

RR

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Manfrom America and Tim and RomeoRamen. I have asked you a straight and honest question. All I am asking is for a straight and simple answer. So I will try again.

"What policies does the T-party plan to implement that will address the problems of the economy, unemployment and other concerns facing the working class in America?"

I did not ask you what Obama did. I did not ask you for sound bites. I asked you very specifically to outline the plan that your proposed party have for setting things right in America.

You may even convince someone of the merits of your party if you can answer this question. But I think you have zero idea how to answer. Because your party has not offered up a solution that you can map out for us. They have not put anything solid on the table for consideration.

So back in your corner friends. What is the T-party's plan to fix America. Spell it out!

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...well???????

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tkoind2 - you keep ignoring and pretending the Tea Party have offered no ideas, when the entire movement is based on specific ideas. Your pretended ignorance is hilarious!!! :-D

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You voting based solely upon a bunch of propaganda slogans with no clue about how they plan to address problems.

Right. Cuz all the signs, billboards, t shirts, pins, videos and speeches exhorting the country to vote for "change" in 08 were the very antithesis of empty propaganda and mindless sloganeering .

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Man - "when the entire movement is based on specific ideas." Then share them with us. Is it really that hard? Why not summarize them for us friend. Enlighten us. Spell out the key points of their policy so everyone here on this board can come to understand what you actually expect the T-party to do. How they will do it. And how it will work.

You skirt the issue every way you can, but I am asking you for a straight answer friend. So if you have one, why hold back? Share it!

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Tim. Again, I am not asking you what Obama did in '08. I am asking you a simple question. What does your party plan to do about our problems right here and now in 2010? What is the T-party's solution to our problems?

If you don't know then why are you voting for them? If you do know, why are you afraid to share it with the readers on this board?

My guess is you have no clue what so ever. And neither do they.

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tkoind2 - - some more facts while we wait for you to learn how to use google - -

Only 39 percent of Americans now believe President Barack Obama deserves to be reelected, according to a Gallup poll conducted Oct. 14-17.

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Tim, I want you to tell us why you support the T-party. What is the plan that they are proposing that you think makes them worthy to take power? Why is that so hard for you.

I can google just fine. But this is a debate friend. You are proposing change, so I am asking you to demonstrate why we should agree with you. Why can't you answer this question?

Add your evidence to the debate. If you can. I think you can't which is why you keep escaping the question. Be a hero friend and spell it out.

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tkoind2 - I can't teach someone unwilling to learn. All I can do is point you towards an aspect of the so-called tea party movement which might intrigue someone like you, always going on about "race": 37 GOP candidates in this November's election happen to be black. Instead of me explaining to you something as spontaneous and self-organizing as the tea party rallies why don't you explain why you think so many black candidates would join Repub ranks when we have in the WH the first African-American president?

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The platforms and plans are very clear, even though you try to ignore it.

What a hilarious thread .Yes he knows they are clear. And very, very thin, that is why he can see through them. He just wants you to type them out.

As far as I can see, there is only one reason to not answer a question on an anonymous internet message board.

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tkoid -- this thread is not about the Tea Party; it's about the shellacking the democrats are going to receive a week from next Tuesday.

RR

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Still Tim, you run away from laying out the reasons. I am more than capable of learning. I am not in America and have not been listening to the rhetoric of either side. Convince me that your party has the answer.

I am very practical when it comes to politics. I want to see solid solutions to problems. If you can show me how the T-party will put people back to work, help them send their kids to school and make America a better place then I will back you up. But I don't think you can do that.

The problems are not black and white and not answerable in a sound bite. But you can and should give us a baseline position on how your party plans to address issues.

It scares me that not one of you has been able to answer my question. Not one has had the courage to float one platform plank in this thread. Why are you so afraid?

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GJDailleult. "As far as I can see, there is only one reason to not answer a question on an anonymous internet message board."

Very right. We won't see your face, won't know your phone number, won't know how to get in touch with you in any way. This is zero social risk friends. If you believe in this party, tell us about the plan that made you think they have the right answers.

I just think you cannot answer because a. you don't know, b. the party hasn't offered any tangible solutions or c. you are afraid that the answers just don't hold water.

So what is it? Prove me wrong with a solid answer. ..... still waiting.

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37 GOP candidates in this November's election happen to be black. ... why don't you explain why you think so many black candidates would join Repub ranks when we have in the WH the first African American-president?

Because they can see what a fraud Obama and he policies are and want no part of what he's selling to the American voters.

RR

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Romeo, same question. How will the T-party solve America's problems? You seem to know more about Obama than you do the party you are supporting. Tell us about YOUR party. Tell us what they stand for and how THEY will solve our problems.

So many T-part supporters here and not one of of you has the guts to answer a straight question about your party's policies. Pathetic!

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Tell us about YOUR party. Tell us what they stand for and how THEY will solve our problems.

How typical of the authoritarian Left - - the belief or expectation that even self-organizing populist movements like the tea parties must have uniform beliefs and their members dutifully display the kind of self-censoring "liberals" engage in. Witness the whole Juan Williams affair lighting up the blogosphere today.

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Romeo. I was born in the US and lived there for over 30 years. I think that makes me a native speaker by most standards. But it is easier to attack me than to properly debate the topic isn't it? After all, you have no clue how to answer my question.

I am not a troll on this board friend. Just ask the dozens of people who know well my posts for several years here. But nice try to divert attention.

So, now that your personal attack is out of the way. Can we get back to the question at hand? What does the T-party propose that will address the problems facing America?

Why is this so hard for you?

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That's what I mean: high water mark. How will things be when the tp must actually do things rather than talk. The sheen will come of quickly, particularly if you're just aping long standing GOP principles.

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Witness the whole Juan Williams affair lighting up the blogosphere today.

Everywhere but JT, of course. It'll MAYBE show up here in a news cycle or two.

RR

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Junnama. I just honestly wish they would debate intelligently and tell us what their platform really proposes. If they have good ideas, let's take them on board. But so far, in the media and on message boards, I have not seen a single outline that offered anything really tangible.

The good news from this fact is that this movement will burn itself out when it fails to deliver anything at all. The bad news is it will mean more wasted time and extended suffering for people in need in America.

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Do not forget, Obama became the first Black US president because Hillary did not become the first White female president, it was a very, very CLOSE race.

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Tim, how about some answers for tkoind?

Watching your continued deflections is getting boring.

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tkoind - "But so far, in the media and on message boards, I have not seen a single outline that offered anything really tangible."

That's what I've been saying all week.

Conservatives are just sucking up soundbites and have been sucked in so comprehensively they actually believe them to be policies.

No, neither the GOP nor the TP has any credible policies, ideas or strategies to fix the economy or pay down the deficit.

TimRussert's not answering your question because s/he isn't hearing or reading about concrete Right policy.

They can't tell you what doesn't exist.

And it takes guts to admit that....

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How typical of the authoritarian Left - - the belief or expectation that even self-organizing populist movements like the tea parties must have uniform beliefs and their members dutifully display the kind of self-censoring "liberals" engage in.

means that you are a bunch of "Against-Obama" with no real ideas on what you would like to do in the future except of winning this election?

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TimRussert - "How typical of the authoritarian Left - the belief or expectation that even self-organizing populist movements like the tea parties must have uniform beliefs and their members dutifully display the kind of self-censoring "liberals" engage in."

LOL!!! If people are going to vote, they had better know what they are voting for. Or do you think it's wiser for people to vote for any memeber of a party they kind of like, regardless of whether or not that party has a strategy let alone a clue about doing anything good whatsoever for the voters?

Oh, sorry, that's what you're going to do.. :-)

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SushiSake3, Giappo thanks for the posts. I was starting to feel like I took the wrong exit and ended up in Texas all alone.

The whole reason I have been pressing these guys is to make the point my friend SushiSake3 spelled out so well above. This TP movement has the depth of a teaspoon when it come to policy and solutions. It is rhetoric, soundbites, blame and fear. Nothing more.

I really do sincerely wish someone from the right could offer up a compelling argument. I am not a supporter of either party so I am honestly open to intelligent ideas about how to solve problems. But the sad truth is that there are very few people out there offering real answers. And that is where public attention needs to be. We need to demand more from our potential leaders than the fluf they are offering.

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tkoind2 you're slaying me! This is too funny, or would be if it wasn't so sad. I have my own explanation as well - TimR and RR2 can't give a real answer because they're not real people but bots programmed to copy and paste soundbites from right wing blog comment pages whenever a thread comes up that mentions the words 'Obama' or 'Democrat'. Scan the article for flag-raising words and phrases, run a search of the blog comments pages and use a program like 'cleverbot' to create you're soundbite reply.

Honestly, I wish I was right...

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yokomoc. LOL!!!! Best post of the day!

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tkoind2,

I think JT's board has been posted all along with Tea Party's ambitions. But you don't listen with an open mind, you just come back with barbs.

I'll tell you what the Tea Party wants to achieve with Novembers elections:

Containment. Putting the brakes on a runaway administration, before it prints and spends us and generations to come, off a cliff.

It's about getting American exceptionalism back, through private sector industry; not government owned industry. Cutting taxes and regulations on business. It is stifling confidence, growth, and hiring... When people consider leaving the US to do business in a more business friendly country, something is wrong. It's about the JOBS.

Education; getting rid of teachers unions and Federal manipulation of State school issues.

Immigration- Americas borders MUST BE PROTECTED, and LAWS enforced.

Stopping Obamacare, a concept that was pushed through by Pelosi, Reid and a list of mostly Liberal Democrat members of the House, and Congress, who are now going to have the door shown to them, by their constituents, come November.

Putting the brakes on a far left agenda that for almost 2 years, had none, is what it is all about.

Americans don't want their government interfering in every aspect of their lives...

It's about Freedom and Liberty.

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Pamelot explodes the heads (head?) of tkoind2/sushisake3.

Education reform/Immigration/ObamaCare/out of control spending/and utter contempt for our Constitution are what the Solidaritea Movement are focused on.

You really have to wonder how some people could so quickly forget Scott Brown or so easily overlook Chris Christie and keep comin here to assure us there is nothing to tea party rallies in every single state of the union.

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It's about getting American exceptionalism back, through private sector industry; not government owned industry. Cutting taxes and regulations on business. It is stifling confidence, growth, and hiring...

The "American exceptionalism" and it's private sector almost led to a collapse of more than just the US economy. The US financial sector (and it's jobs) survived thanks to some of the Government's swift actions. The US car industry (GM) and it's jobs, or at least what's left of it, survived due to the Governements' swift actions. Fannie & Freddie, well you saw the recent news, they barely survive even with the help of the Government. Some sectors definitely need some regulations to avoid a similar situation in the future.

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Those are the gop's goals. I think everyone knows that. Nothing new in those goals. Now getting to the big one: deficit. How concretely are you going to cut it?

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It's about getting American exceptionalism back, through private sector industry; not government owned industry. Cutting taxes and regulations on business. It is stifling confidence, growth, and hiring... When people consider leaving the US to do business in a more business friendly country, something is wrong. It's about the JOBS.

Firstly "American exceptionalism" if it ever existed will come back primarily through education, not corporate profits. Cutting taxes won't create more jobs, that's been proven over the last 10 years. BTW do a quick google on the phrase "jobs growth chart" and click the 2nd image that appears, it's quite revealing.

Education; getting rid of teachers unions and Federal manipulation of State school issues.

How in the world could removing teachers unions, and giving teachers an even rawer deal than they already have, possibly improve education?

Obamacare, a concept that was pushed through by...

??? You mean a bill that passed through the legislative system according to existing laws? Under your logic every law that ever passed is 'pushed through'.

Putting the brakes on a far left agenda that for almost 2 years, had none, is what it is all about.

No brakes, except from blanket Republican opposition to absolutely any and all propositions put forward by democrats. With 'no brakes' America would have a public option on health care, and be in a much better position in that regard. As it stands insurers are finding all new ways to screw people over.

Americans don't want their government interfering in every aspect of their lives...

Then next time your house is on fire put it out yourself. If you get robbed don't call the cops - hire private security to get your stuff back. Get some like minded people together and build your own roads. Don't put your kids in state school, if you can't afford private school you need to work harder. If you lose your job, dont' bother claiming benefits. these are all thigns you can do yourself - you don't need a change of government to reach your utopia!

Exactly what areas of your life that the government are currently intefering in or planning to do you want them out of?

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Yokomoc's post is the closest thing I have seen to genuine praise for what the Obama admin has wrought.

Apparently we are supposed to bow in gratitude for the fact that public sector union employees now make twice what people in the private sector do. We are evidently supposed to cheer for school administrators in blue states pulling in 200 grand / yr in retirement. Story in the news yesterday featured a New Jersey toll operator who made 300 grand /yr.

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Apparently we are supposed to bow in gratitude for the fact that public sector union employees now make twice what people in the private sector do.

Which then puts their pay at only 1/250 of what the CEO makes, as opposed to the 1/500 ratio of the non-union worker to top guy. Gee, all because they stick together and stand up for themselves against a United Management the way no individual can.

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Which then puts their pay at only 1/250 of what the CEO makes, as opposed to the 1/500 ratio of the non-union worker to top guy.

Which CEOs, specifically ? A handful make the kind of money you are talking about.

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Public sector employees and federal workers are the new privileged class. They are the elites. They are overpaid and over-protected. Even FDR knew letting these people unionize would be a national disaster.

"Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of government employees. Upon employees in the federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people ...

This obligation is paramount ... A strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent ... to prevent or obstruct ... Government ... Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government ... is unthinkable and intolerable."

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Firstly "American exceptionalism" if it ever existed will come back primarily through education, not corporate profits.

Agreed......just a small question, who pays for the education?

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With 'no brakes' America would have a public option on health care, and be in a much better position in that regard.

And we'd be in even more crippling debt. Many democrats say they would not have supported a public option anyway.

How in the world could removing teachers unions, and giving teachers an even rawer deal than they already have, possibly improve education?

Charter and private schools do exceptionally well as do areas where voucher systems have been put in place, on all three accounts these successful practices have been fought by teachers unions at every opportunity. The unionized teachers of America have been churning out undereducated, unprepared students for far to long. If you are letting people with barely functional literacy graduate there is something horribly wrong with the teaching strategies.

Then next time your house is on fire put it out yourself. If you get robbed don't call the cops - hire private security to get your stuff back. Get some like minded people together and build your own roads. Don't put your kids in state school, if you can't afford private school you need to work harder. If you lose your job, dont' bother claiming benefits. these are all thigns you can do yourself - you don't need a change of government to reach your utopia!

It's like you wrapped up everything we should be doing and set it at my feet, thank you. It is my honest opinion that every penny should be earned, my family immigrated, I had nothing and my parents refused welfare out of a sense of pride utterly alien in today’s world. Saying I did it myself is my greatest accomplishment and I believe everybody should be able to do the same.

For purely anecdotal purposes I did once hire a private security group to locate a small file safe that was stolen out of my car after reporting it to the police. Two weeks and several hundred dollars later I got it back intact and with all my files and several photo's of the thief which I gave to the police... who never caught him despite photos, a current address, and a list of people he made regular contact with. All in all, very effective and professional.

Gee, all because they stick together and stand up for themselves against a United Management the way no individual can.

And that worked real well for the auto companies, the domestic steel industry, most of the manufacturing centers in Detroit, and the textile industry that have all either been destroyed or reduced to federal life support. Unions have a time and a place, and it is not all the time everywhere. They should be utilized for specific instances of employee abuse involving safety or hostile work environment but never for wages, benefits, or other employment perks. If you want better compensation get a better job, if you can't find a better job, tough.

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Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government ... is unthinkable and intolerable."

Sounds like something directed towards Newt Gingrich -- and this next crop of Republicans, should they attain power.

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Agreed......just a small question, who pays for the education?

Education is nowhere nearly as expensive as ignorance -- which all of society pays for, and dearly.

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As for Capitalism improving the lives of people. Then please explain why the last 20+ years have seen the working class in America under increasing economic pressure? Why fewer families can send kids to college and why so many are fallen into poverty despite their passionate desire to work.

I would say it is primarily because of the inflation of health care and college education costs. Capitalism has been improving hundreds of millions of lives in China and in India.

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yokomok, almost fell over in the street laughing at your 5.17pm post. As expected, conservatives have no way to refute it. Thanks for the laughs. :-)

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Mr_c:

Yokomoc's post is the closest thing I have seen to genuine praise for what the Obama admin has wrought.

I have my criticisms but they're much different than your's. I respect Obama but wish he had much more courage in his convictions than he's shown so far.

Apparently we are supposed to bow in gratitude for the fact that public sector union employees now make twice what people in the private sector do. We are evidently supposed to cheer for school administrators in blue states pulling in 200 grand / yr in retirement. Story in the news yesterday featured a New Jersey toll operator who made 300 grand /yr.

If you're going to post wacky accusations, at least back them up with something material. 'A' story in the news does not a fact make, neither does it make it standard practice.

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theQ, the major impact of a public option would be to limit the ability of insurers to gouge consumers. It would still be funded by public contributions. You could argue that short-term it would require some investment to put in place but mid-to-long-term the consumer wins. It would increase consumer choice and, what's that BS buzzword I keep hearing? Oh yeah, freedom.

As fr your self-sufficiency - good for you! As I said, it does not require a change of government for you to make these decisions for yourself, but please accept that others are not as you are. A hapy medium is possible between pure self-sufficiency and government support.

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Yabits I mostly never agree with anything you say on any thread, but in this one you have the real gem:

Education is nowhere nearly as expensive as ignorance -- which all of society pays for, and dearly.

Amen brother. True words which seem to be lost on far too many. Whatever becomes of this political and economic mess that we call the good ole USA, we need to re-focus and re-dedicate ourselves to educating our population. It goes a very, very long way in curing the other ills, or at least giving those that can the tools to do so.

Now getting to the big one: deficit. How concretely are you going to cut it?

Maybe no one truly knows what the hell to do. But I'd put good money down (if I had any) that crazy spending, idiotic stimulus packages and slowly putting the private sector under government control isn't going to do it. While you all might chastise the TP or GOP for not producing a concrete plan that meets your approval (and I doubt you've read much of what they have to offer rather than just dismissing it out of hand), having a flawed plan that won't work and swells government out of control is not the answer. And the reason the dems are scheduled to do so poorly is that people realize this. An option of freedom, free enterprise and choice is more popular to the American democracy than a defined platform of governmental control and taxation, whether you can understand that or not. If you cannot, then in my eye you don't really understand democracy and what the American Experiment was all about in the first place (which to me the left never really has). If a government controlled welfare state is really what your after then maybe you should explore communism or socialism. Some claim it's great. Just make sure you don't get a Stalin and you might just be fine. Not my cup of tea old boy.

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Like the GOP's idea of letting the public decide what programs to cut under their "You Cut" program.

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How in the world could removing teachers unions, and giving teachers an even rawer deal than they already have, possibly improve education?

I was going to do an indepth post, and explain reality to you here. However I'll settle for simply saying, Teachers unions exist to serve the teachers interests, not the students. That is the way it is. They don't help students, they don't improve education, in fact the opposite of that is true. They hurt education, by promoting poor teachers, and preventing bad teachers from being terminated in favor of good teachers.

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very troubling man

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