Obama draws battle lines to reshape U.S. society

In about a year people are going to wake up and say "we don't want to live in Sweden" where the state decides everything for you. Socialism saps the will and motivation out of the human spirit. Most people in Scandinavia look and act like they are on Valium 24/7.

Of course, minimum safety nets should be in place, like extended unemployement insurance and job training, but B. Hussein Obama's long-term devious scheme is to increase handouts to "welfare mammas" and minorities in an attempt to reshape the electorate.

Moderator: It is not necessary to use Obama's middle name.

Tatanka - you're a Republican fearmonger who, as such, is engaging in exactly the same manipulative crap your god Drugrush Limbaugh so desperately wants to imagine President of the United States Barack Hussein Obama does. You are totally incapable of backing up your above statement, and in fact, I challenge whether you actually believe your statement yourself. Your statement is either racially-motivated, shameless party politics over the welfare of America, or both. You are a perfect example of why the Republican "party" has had its ass handed to it for the past two elections and will continue to do so in '10, '12, and beyond.

So my message to you and your ilk is... (wait for it)...

KEEP IT UP! You guys are hilarious! We true Americans (i.e. Democrats) need something to laugh at, in between bouts of fretting over fixing bush's mess!

I think Tatanka is being moderate, perhaps naive about what will happen in America. The American people have been pwnd by Wall Street, which will emerge as the ruling class. Whatever they do, the American taxpayer will foot the bill.

Americans don't realize how good they had it. If the USSR had been run by capable leaders they would be speaking Soviet now.

In about a year people are going to wake up and say "we don't want to live in Sweden"...

The quality of life of Sweden with the moderate climate found in most of the United States? Sounds like heaven on earth.

...where the state decides everything for you.

Oh yeah? And who decides things for people under laissez-faire capitalism? The son gets the business because the dad runs it, no matter how incompetent Junior is. The daughter gets into Harvard because the dad went there.

If, by the state, it means "we the people," then it just might produce better outcomes than grossly imperfect individuals. After all, none of us is as good as all of us.

....increase handouts to "welfare mammas" and minorities

Careful there, Tatanka, your sheet is showing.

If the USSR had been run by capable leaders they would be speaking Soviet now.

LOL!! Is "Soviet" a language? Not even in the USSR did everyone come close to speaking the same language. C'mon man... Armenian, Azerbaijani, Ukrainian, Uzbek, Turkmen, Moldavian, Georgian, Lithuanian.... and on and on.

yabits,

Not sure what you're getting at there big guy.

I'm not politically correct -- just correct! Now anything a monderate or relatively conservative says in criticism of the current administration gets shot down by "secular progessive" Democrats as racist.

"the single largest increase in federal spending in the history of the United States"

Hey, it's "investment in our future"! You have to spend money to get money! No worries, President Obama and his geek budget director are financial geniuses!

Tatanka, compared to the US today, Sweden looks good. Seriously.

B. Hussein Obama's long-term devious scheme is to increase handouts to "welfare mammas" and minorities in an attempt to reshape the electorate.

Now why exactly would he do that? "Welfare mammas" vote Republican? And I don't know why some Americans are worried about socialism and having the state decide everything for them. Don't need it, already got lots of idiots on the radio and TV doing that for them.

Tatanka is afraid of what he/she doesn't understand. See these people bought into the whole propaganda that liberal=red, benefits=socialism and goverment for normal working people=republican.

I grew up in Utah a seriously conservative state filled with hard working people with no hope of wealth and fame. Their lives were hard, are hard and will go on being hard. The precise community of people who would benefit most from social programs for education, health care, work support, retirment and other programs requiring government spending.

Yet they resist these very same programs as vigilently as dending their own lives. Why?

Because they have bought the republican propaganda that a government that cares for people is socialist. They are naive enough to dream that wealth will trickle down or that with hard work they may get a break some day.

Well reality check people. If you are poor, chances are you will stay that way if things don't change. And your kids will carry on the family tradition of low education, poor health care and limited opportunities. And they will inherit your prejudices and anger too.

But if the government gives you better support for education for your kids they may just have a chance to escape. And if you get better health care you can take better care of them and see to it that your family is healthy. And those tax cuts and jobs programs will help you and your community.

Wake up blind, deaf and dumb working class republicans. A system like Sweden would be paradice compared to Utah and other red voting states. And your future and the future for your children would be a hell of a lot better than whatever load of propaganda the right in the US is selling.

It is time for change. Change that will benefit you maybe more than the welfare mom's you like to point your long overworked fingers at. Have some empathy and little more common sense to know a good thing when it is offered to you.

Man. Every time some nutter comes on these boards frothing at the mouth about welfare equalling socialism and pinko commies, I just shake my head in disbelief. In Australia, we have a pretty good Medicare system, and some safety nets for people who become unemployed, etc.

It just blows my mind that anyone seriously worries that socialism will ever take roots in America, though. I mean, come on. "Better dead than red" and all those other phrases that came about. From what I understand, it's retardedly expensive to get medical treatment there. I have a friend there who was asked for $800 for a skin rash. WTF ? If a system gets that far out of control, maybe you need some pinko commies in there striking a balance.

The reason why healthcare is so expensive is that doctors have to pay up to half their income in malpractice insurance premiums. The trial lawyers who get the insurance payouts make contributions to Democrats. The Democrats resist tort reform. It's a US version of a Japanese iron triangle.

Iron triangle?

"compared to the US today, Sweden looks good"

Yes, the Swedes love giving the government half of what they earn.

"President Barack Obama has set his course for battle with America’s powerful interest groups over his ambitious, some say radical, spending blueprint"

I think President Obama's spending plans are quite definitely radical.

He is increasing spending on Americans.

We now have a president who is putting Americans first.

We haven't seen that for 8 long years.

Eminent liberal journalist Robert Scheer on a recent NPR show, giving voice to his regrets about supporting Obama-

"I don't think the idea of nationalizing, as it's now being called — which means bailing out these banks, setting them straight, then letting them go private again, which is the model that everybody is using, and the people who get screwed are the people whose retirement funds had common or preferred shares and they get wiped out, and these bankers come out richer than ever at the other end — that's not a leftist idea and it's not socialism. This is what we used to, in Comparative Economic Systems, call fascism. It's putting government at the service of the big financial interests. That's what happened in Italy, that's what happened in Germany, that's what happened in Japan."

http://www.kcrw.com/news/programs/lr

lets see, the government sucks at educating the kids, sucks at providing health care for senior citizens, sucks at managing the social security fund, sucks at regulating banks, sucks at delivering mail, sucks at running a railroad, sucks at making sure the food is safe, sucks at securing the borders, sucks at running airports, sucks at keeping bridges and roads in good repair, sucks at managing public housing, sucks at dealing with natural disasters, sucks at managing its budget, sucks at pretty much everything it does but now its a good idea to allow government to pretty much control all other aspects of our lives?

JFK is rolling in his grave.

VOR: It does indeed suck after the past eight years. Fortunately Obama is in the process of fixing things for you. You should thank the man.

Saborichan -- I cannot think of any cutting-edge pharmaceutical companies that are Australian, can you? Reshaping America to more equally (but undeservingly) to distribute wealth stiffles incentive, motivation and innovation. Profit motive drives innovation; pure and simple. In America, hard work, either through owning your own business or long years of academic study has been the foundation of getting ahead in life -- not sitting around waiting for a government handout. For many liberals and excuse is better than an achievement. That is because and achievement no matter how great, leaves you having to prove yourself in the future. But an excuse can last for a lifetime! So liberal posters, want a little enlightenment, read some books and articles written by Thomas Sowell, a black economist -- liberals need to listen to him instead of always being critical of opposing views...

according to smith, the government was working fine until Bush took over. No wonder this guy has so much confidence in Obama, he has no grasp of reality.

Obama wants nationalized health care, but not for him and his family.

nor does he send his kids to a public school.

He is increasing spending on Americans" who aren't spending anything on anyone...

In Australia, we have a pretty good Medicare system, and some safety nets for people who become unemployed, etc. " And your population, as well as the UK, Denmark, and Canada are what in comparision? What is your poverty rate of your countries? It is not that simiple

The reason why healthcare is so expensive is that doctors have to pay up to half their income in malpractice insurance premiums. The trial lawyers who get the insurance payouts make contributions to Democrats. The Democrats resist tort reform." There have been many worthy cases out there where I can't argue that the settlements are too high, but there have been quite a number of cases that have been outlandish and the settlements alone would make me not want to be a doctor in the US. They are allowing people to sue quite easily. They should cap on what you can sue and what you can sue for. That would bring the prices down.

Tatanka is afraid of what he/she doesn't understand. See these people bought into the whole propaganda that liberal=red, benefits=socialism and goverment for normal working people=republican." And you are the same in reverse. Stop the groupie stuff.

I grew up in Utah a seriously conservative state filled with hard working people with no hope of wealth and fame." Utah is not a state that should be used when comparing things. It, no offense, is not a normal place. I think why you say its so conservative is because the mormons, sadly, control it.

Their lives were hard, are hard and will go on being hard. The precise community of people who would benefit most from social programs for education, health care, work support, retirment and other programs requiring government spending." Doesn't the church have rules about what type of care you can get? Isn't that why is was hard to provide state based care?

Yet they resist these very same programs as vigilently as dending their own lives. Why?

Because they have bought the republican propaganda that a government that cares for people is socialist." Just who started teh socialist propaganda? Hint, it wasn't republicans...

Well reality check people. If you are poor, chances are you will stay that way if things don't change." Yeah, and you have to change. Watch, when everyone is getting everything from the gov and the gov one day can't put out, there will be chaos. Watch!

And your kids will carry on the family tradition of low education, poor health care and limited opportunities." Poll: how many here did not come from a gated community and agree with this poster?

And they will inherit your prejudices and anger too." what?

But if the government gives you better support for education for your kids they may just have a chance to escape." How about this. Let me not pay taxes for the disgusting public education that the US provides right now. And disgusting not because of money problems, but the quality of teachers is so low....

And if you get better health care you can take better care of them and see to it that your family is healthy." So, if you are grossly overweight, as many of you Anglo Americans are, are you going to hve the gov find a way for you lose weight instead of getting off you lazy butts and excercising?

Wake up blind, deaf and dumb working class republicans. A system like Sweden would be paradice compared to Utah and other red voting states. And your future and the future for your children would be a hell of a lot better than whatever load of propaganda the right in the US is selling." Again, comparing Sweden and the US is stupid.

It is time for change. Change that will benefit you maybe more than the welfare mom's you like to point your long overworked fingers at." Ok, so the problem stays?

Have some empathy and little more common sense to know a good thing when it is offered to you." NO! how about keeping your hands out of my pockets, my house, and don't tell me what I can and can't teach my kids.

tkoind2 - your 10:01 am post is quite possibly the best post I've ever read on JT. The only thing I'd add is to remember that the American people elect their leaders freely; why bother if we expect them to sit back and let the rich exploit the working/middle classes and do nothing about it, like the Republicans?

I highly favor a Democratic government like that of the freely and democratically-elected President of the United States Barack Hussein Obama that will hold the wealthy accountable for their actions.

Again, great post; I'm making sure my children read it as well.

USAFdude, don't forget to thank your kids while you are at it. It will be they who end up paying for Obama's mistakes in the long run, unless of course they are the ones my kids will be supporting.

HI, Ordinary Americans have too long been led into the garden path.Americans had better life than say the Russians because they sold better arms to the world and created NEED for them.Today Indians are being led the garden path of capitalism while Chinese have better education,healthcare,retirrement benefits and general health.Ofcourse we have the SLUM DOGS. Indian big cats donot imitate Bill gates in philanthropy but will buy private business jets

and as a Conservative Republican I say "Let the battle begin" and let's settle this socialist experiment once and for all.

sucks at pretty much everything it does but now its a good idea to allow government to pretty much control all other aspects of our lives?"

Vor, tht was excellent.

smitty, perhaps I am too young. Since you say the past eight years can you tell me if the US gov was contrary to VOR's post?

I can see quite many who are living in la la land, where the rich work their butts off for the poor at the bottom because that is the way it "should be".

I am contemplating about giving up my US citizenship, hell, maybe Castro will give me my birthright status... I am also going to talk to a pro about wht I should expect to pay in the years to come. I'll say this, there a few charities that I going to lose a big donator - me. So, we'll let those who need it get it trhough taxes, after all, we are supposed to play fair now aren't we?

Additionally, for both smith and sarge as they go back and forth, please go to the link and see for yourself what "real" socialists" are saying about Obama's plans... http://www.plp.org/misc/obama_election.html

You don't get much truer communistic/socialistic than PLP... I know, my father was an original member, my he rest in peace but if he were alive today, I'd say to him that it won't work.

tkoind2

I don't expect ANYone to provide health care, food, clothes, or housing for the children I chose to have. Now tell me why I should provide part of my income for someones elses chidren please. And keep it simple, ok?

I figure if my great grand kids have to pay off dubyas spending then their great grand kids can pay off Obamas.

We true Americans (i.e. Democrats) need something to laugh at

Here is something to laugh at. Fourteen of the Fifteen states that are going to be hardest hit are states that went for Obama and almost all of those are blue states like Connecticut, California and New York who are also raising state taxes. Much of that money will be going to red states with large poor populations like Alabama and Mississippi (ha-ha-ha), but that have maintained some internal spending discipline and aren't raising taxes. The people who will be hardest hit will be 6 figure types: doctors, lawyers, small business owners, not the big money 7 figure hedge fund guys or the trust fund types. So hard work will be punished, not sinecures or inheritance. An Atlas Shrugged mentality will develop - "Why bother trying"

The more radical the change, the bigger the backlash.

Believe me, no one is laughing harder than those of us who want to see the whole system collapse - or at the very least, the economies of the East and West coast.

Obama is going to reshape America the same way Dems reshaped - and destroyed - California and Michigan.

bebert, good points but the truth of the matter is everybody is going to end up paying higher taxes except for the ingrates who live off the public dole.

Anyone who uses gas, electricity and water will be getting taxed and taxed heavily. So unless you walk to work, live in a tent and bath in a river, the son of the Kenyan Marxist and his assembled cast of thieves will be sticking their grubby paws deeper into Americans pockets. The only ones that don't seem to quite realize it yet are the servile self-seekers on the left and outsiders who don't live in the United States and pay US taxes.

When you see that ex-lobbyists fill this administration it's pretty clear that "lobbyist" now means anyone who opposes stealth socialism.

skip, if you are thinking about living outside the US, consider the British Virgin Islands (no income tax), Switzerland (10-13%) or Singapore (top tax rate 14%).

I too am quitting giving to charities while the government redistributes my income.

Another way to keep money in your pocket is learning the art of bartering. Its a simple way to cut the government out of the action.

Barack Obama that will hold the wealthy accountable for their actions." What the heck is this? What did anyone who has become rich do that was so bad?

What is it with you in wanting to attack people who are making more than you?

"USAFdude, don't forget to thank your kids while you are at it. It will be they who end up paying for Obama's mistakes in the long run, unless of course they are the ones my kids will be supporting."

Heh. From a longter Bush supporter.

Priceless.

Dow-Jones still dropping, no bottom in sight.

Obama, what a disaster.

"Obama, what a disaster"

Wow, only five weeks into his presidency and he's already screwed the US, neh, old matey, rollo?

Heh, and to think it Bush took eight years.

As an Obama detractor, and since I haven't picked up the toys up from 'round the pram when McCain got trounced at the ballot, I'm just going to shriek about how bad President Obama is, regardless of the mess that he didn't really get handed with.

"Obama, what a disaster"

That's exactly what most of us democrats were saying before last year's elections. I don't know about other democrats but I'm encouraged by the fact that we're putting efforts back into the country and it's middle and lower classes.

For the past 8 years I've seen my tax dollars filtered to the rich through george bush's policy's of assisting the rich to enrich themselves with more money from the middle class.

Will I be disappointed with some of Obama's attempts to make change, sure!! But I'll be more satisfied with Obama's efforts then I was with bush's efforts. < :-)

Ah, how wonderful daydream. Now you can look forward to your tax dollars going to support those who don't work instead. Aren't you excited. Hell, maybe everyone should quit their jobs. The suckers who keep working will support you. Hooray for President Obama, and his desire to put punish the workers in favor of those who don't work. 5 weeks in, and I'm already thinking hes the dumbest President since Carter.

Sushi: "He is increasing spending on Americans"

Yeah, basically he's taking money from those who work, and giving to those who don't work.

How about if he just lets Americans keep more of their money to spend as they see fit?

How about if he just lets Americans keep more of their money to spend as they see fit?

Like on home mortgages they can't afford? Yes, that would help the economy.

Hang on, they already tried that ...

Yeah, basically he's taking money from those who work, and giving to those who don't work.

Not quite. He's taking money from those who will work in the future to give jobs to those who don't have them. Then he can start the printing presses and boost inflation to make it easier to pay back!

How about if he just lets Americans keep more of their money to spend as they see fit?

Then the economy falls further into a downward spiral as people hoard cash and companies are forced to cut jobs because noone's buying their products. I don't agree with bailing out failing businesses or creating meaningless jobs, but if private investment goes out the door, the government can help out by funding projects - as long as they're actually useful and economically viable.

It's not fair by any means to the people who have been financially responsible, but it's the best of a bad bunch of options if it helps avoid a repeat of the Great Depression. I'd be angry at the people who let the problem get this far, rather than the people who are trying to mop up.

It still amounts to incompetent politicians writing bad policy to fix bad policy written by incompetent politicians. It's dark comedy as people applaud them and ask that they be given a chance. They don't realize that most of those incompetent politicians are the same ones that voted for the bad policy to begin with.