Obama hits Republicans over auto industry bailout

The reality check : candidate Obama said added $4trillion to national debt is unpatriotic! The whole history of U.S. was recorded around $10 trillion debt, and since he took office, it was ballooned to $15 trillion debt. This highest ever debt will have severe consequence for next generation of American years to come. Words are cheap aren't they? Shame.

Obama: "I mean, even by the standards of this town, that's a load of you-know-what."

What does that say about this town?

Does Obama realize that both GM and Chrysler entered bankruptcy in 2009? Man, talk about re-writing history.

RR

GM is doing fine. GM had profit of close to $8 billion for 2011. GM helps the U.S. economy when it hires workers. If auto sales rise to around 14 million this year, GM will have close to 20 percent market share, and the company will have to add people to its U.S. factory workforce. GM has close to 80,000 workers in the U.S. GM needed close to $50 billion government bailout to survive the bankruptcy in 2009. So far the U.S. government has gotten back $22 billion of the original bailout.

"Since when is the idea that we look out for one another a bad thing?”"

Sadly since these libertarian dimwits reinterpreted their religious foundations to read: "Every man for himself."

The current American conservatism is a form of right wing Libertarianism. That philosophy is very simple. " I have mine, to hell with you!" They do not believe in workers, in community, in the wellbeing of others or the responsibility of one human for another. They believe in self preservation first, foremost and last. And they express it by not wanting to pay for anything that doesn't come back directly to them.

Santorum and most of the current GOP leaders all fall into this kind of thinking.

Working people in the US and around the world need leaders who understand that one man cannot truly prosper when the community around him fails. What working people need are leaders devoted to the idea of restoring communities, cities and working classes to the parth of middle class stability. It is there that we see prosperity, growth, improvement and mutual prosperity for all.

Bgood41. Clinton had a budget surplus, your dim friend GWB screwed that up. So time for the GOP to look in the mirror if they want to see who has messed things up for the nation. Two wars, endless expense and what have we accomplished?

Republican candidates Mitt Romney, Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich vehemently opposed government help for General Motors and Chrysler, but have struggled to square that stance with voters in a state that is home to generations of autoworkers.

Ya think?

It's amazing that the free market greed based fantasy of the right wing republicans lives on despite the bailouts of banks, financr firms and auto industry. 16 trillion has been spent by government to save the US capitalism. Just proved that the tea bag crowd lives in a bubble. Also fact is that 90 percent of the recent debt increase is from bush tax cuts, failed wars and unfunded corporate welfare programs. Fact. LDP and. republicans are the same-screw up everything and then blame others.

The stupidity of bailing out the auto industry , giving the big three a Cart Blanche check so they could fatten their own pockets is not hypocritical; it is just plain stupid. The big auto makers Ford, Chrysler, and General Motors all closed planets in this country and outsourced to Mexico, Australia, South Africa, and China; anywhere where the labor was cheap and the profits were high. Now Obama wants to bribe the auto makers to bring back plants to this country, so we can be "strong again". If the auto makers were all that concerned about this country they would have never left in the first place, regardless of the higher profits they made in the low labor zones. The UAW should be ashamed of letting the Big Three yank it around like its well trained lap dog, that it is. But! The ghost of Big Bill Hayward is rolling in his grave at the spineless scum that is the "leaders" of the once might UAW. Puppy chow any one?

When I was growing up in the shadows of the steel mills of the 1950's 1960's the area around the Great Lakes was called the Steel Belt, due to the saturation of steel mills in the region, but in the 1970's all that turned around when they started to close down the aged plants and moved them to South Korea and other countries. I remember when they still had the last blast furnace opened in Bethlehem Steel and was accepting rolled steel from South Korea, because it was more profitable to make it Korea than in this country, same old story like that of the Auto Makers. Many of my friends fathers died at the planet they help to create, and many were rewarded with pink slips and a boot out the door. There was on old saying in Western New York, "they can never lay me off, because they will always need steel workers".

Steel Belt. Rust Belt. Look ma! No Belt.

“You’ve got folks saying, well, the real problem is—what we really disagreed with was the workers, they all made out like bandits—that saving the auto industry was just about paying back the unions.”

I'd be happy if he was saying that the U.S taxpayers got paid back with interest for the taxpayer bail-outs given to GM and Chrysler (Ford refused the Govt money) instead of being all of us now being stuck with a 23 billion dollar loss. But I guess this is what President Obama considers a "success".

The federal government is going to lose billions more on its automotive bailout than it planned.

The Treasury Department now expects to lose $9 billion more on the automotive bailout, increasing the total loss to an estimated $23.6 billion,

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2011/11/auto-bailout-losses-expected-to-rise-by-9-billion/1

Sailwind, the numbers you are talking about simply talk about the direct numbers. What would the impact have been had workers from GM and dependent industries gone on welfare? What would the numbers have been in the loss of revenue caused by the loss of jobs? The loss of sales tax, income tax, etc? The loss in consumer confidence? The problem with losing GM was the ripple effect.

"Obama accused rivals of brazen dishonesty"

Whatever happened to "95% of Americans will get a tax cut"?

95% of Americas will get a tax cut. It's the top 5% that won't pay any taxes at all.

What are you saying Kristiana, the Democrate should let the auto indurtries fend for themselves. After the Republicans finished with the country the jobs was just about dried up, Reagan was the last man to drive a nail into the coffin. He turned the country backwards for many years. That leave the democrate the dirty job of bring the economy back. The Republican want to turn the US population into their personal work force. That is what Reagan ment when the said pull yourself up by your boot strap. The money grubbing Republicans would like to keep the people underpaid and uneducated because that is what they do back in the days in Banana republics. Keep them working for nothing and give them just enough money to keep them comming back to work. Most of the working people are poor and just about living from check to check, so let me tell you, they want to get rich on the back of the poor without just compensation, you seem to forget what happened in places like the communist countries, when the poor had it with the rich They pull them out of their homes and send them packing and that is stating it lightly, because they did not send them to another country, the history it there for you catch up on.. Everyday when I watch the people in my city, fending for themselves and making do with what little that is available to them, believe me it bring tears to my eyes, you can tell they are waiting for something and if they do not see it materialize soon, they will not sit idley by, they will do something about it. So, all you money grubbing people you have to understand it is 2012,people are informed and they have a mind of their own, they will not be denied what they think is their rights. A decent living, to raise their family, because they are spending their lives for it, and that you have to understand that, or else, the rage is simmering deeply in everyone you see and you would not like to know what they what they are thinking....

Sailwind, the numbers you are talking about simply talk about the direct numbers. What would the impact have been had workers from GM and dependent industries gone on welfare? What would the numbers have been in the loss of revenue caused by the loss of jobs? The loss of sales tax, income tax, etc? The loss in consumer confidence? The problem with losing GM was the ripple effect.

To answer your questions is to quite simply look what happened to Chrysler. With the bail-out Chrysler still went bankrupt and cost the public 7 billion dollars. Chrysler was bought out by FIAT is now owned by FIAT and is now profitable. It would have been bought out regardless of the bail-out but the U.S made it a truly sweetheart deal for FIAT not the U.S taxpayer to take over Chrysler at a bargain price and stuck the public with the bill.

If GM was not bailed-out and went into bankruptcy it also would have been bought by the private sector let's say Toyota. Just imagine this. Toyota buys out GM and starts producing U.S made versions of a GM Prius to hit the green market...........Environmentalists are happy, heck Liberal's are happy since the cars are green and conservatives are happy because GM is hiring again by the private sector to meet a real consumer based demand. Not this artificial U.S bail-out post G.M market that picks winners and losers, distorts the market and produces the Lemon called a Chevy Volt.

Sailwind,

what a load of fact free statements. You use to be wrong but post factually, not you have lost that. The Volt was in plan long before the bankruptcy for one. Also no companies were interested in GM or any other firms until the US stepped in. Fiat would not have purchased Chrysler for example unless they were reorganized first and given bridge funding by Obama.

The rightwing just hates reality. You use to be more accurate in your responses but I see you have succumbed to the Fox new/Rush Limbaugh fantasy world of spin and lies. That only leads to cynicism and delusional thoughts.

One last thing, good to see the US stock market now finally recovered from the bush crony capitalism stock market crash in 2008. Took 3.5 years to undo what the republicans wrecked, just like Clinton cleaned up for Reagan's failures. Spin the market hitting four year highs if you can, like you are trying to do with hugely successful bailouts of GM and others.

Obama is doing a good job.

I can't wait for more doses of cold water to be splashed on the Republicans and conservatives of America. Obama has been leaving them to write their own obituary. People are not buying the Republican's rhetoric.

I can't agree or disagree with the $4 trillion debt amount attributable to Obama. What I can agree on is the debt comes from good old G.W. Bush and is a result of prior president's policies and the so-called neo-conservatives. For example, the tarp bail out, the tax cut/gift to the rich, the trumped up war in Iraq to support Bush's friends and interests in the military industry or to finish daddy's war, the trillion dollar+ expansion of the Orwellian state of the U.S.

Saving the auto industry from itself was much better money spent than the Tarp funds, which only went to enrich speculator/friends of Bush.

If Obama is at fault, it is because he couldn't act fast enough to counter the Republican's largess. Even now, the Republicans are saying we should allow wealthy people the ability to be only taxed at 15%. It is completely absurd.

The estate tax system and the tax system was designed to tax the wealthy more because we Americans did not want to be like France where there are two classes, the always rich and the always poor. Basically, when you obtain enough wealth, your family will be forever wealthy if there is not an effective tax of that wealth.

Before anyone says that taxing wealthy people is unpatriotic or hurts the rich, consider the Kennedy family wealth, they were hit with an even greater estate tax than the current max of 55%. It has done nothing to slow them down as a perpetually rich family. Do we really want a two class state in the U.S. with no opportunity to better yourself because your parents are not rich?

Also no companies were interested in GM or any other firms until the US stepped in.

Like in 2008 prior to the bail-out?

We’re not fully surprised. General Motors and Isuzu have a history, with the former once owning 49 percent of Isuzu

GM has offered assistance to the Japanese vehicle maker in the past. Now, it seems, the tables are turned.

Isuzu says that it has not received an offer to buy. It does say, however, that if an offer is made, it would definitely consider it.

http://blogs.automotive.com/isuzu-to-take-over-general-motors-trucks-6455.html

Fiat would not have purchased Chrysler for example unless they were reorganized first and given bridge funding by Obama.

Also from 2008 from the Financial Times:

Fiat first set its sights on Chrysler in 2008, when the US group was heading towards bankruptcy and the Italian group was looking for a partner to make its own operation viable by sharing platforms and building economies of scale. Fiat and Chrysler each produce about 2m cars a year.

Sailwind,

Please, there may have been interest but they did not do anything. I may be interested in Angelina Jolie but that does not mean I will meet her. You need to raise your game. GM, Isuzu, are you kidding me. That was a one way engagement from GM to Isuzu.

Like I said before, reality has a liberal bias.

The main problem Republicans face is that things are getting better, and they are getting better because Democratic solutions work. Republicans had hoped that things would get worse - or at least stay as miserable as their last president left them - but they have run out of time in that respect. Their greatest fear may well be realized: that, by election day, the majority of Americans will find themselves better off than they were in '08.

Two terrible repercussions for the Republicans: it's not good to run as the cranky "get off my lawn!" type; and it's not good to be so obviously routing against an American renaissance. This is all they are left with to do.

sailwind: If GM was not bailed-out and went into bankruptcy it also would have been bought by the private sector let's say Toyota. Just imagine this. Toyota buys out GM and starts producing U.S made versions of a GM Prius to hit the green market...........Environmentalists are happy, heck Liberal's are happy since the cars are green and conservatives are happy because GM is hiring again by the private sector to meet a real consumer based demand. Not this artificial U.S bail-out post G.M market that picks winners and losers, distorts the market and produces the Lemon called a Chevy Volt.

You're getting too loose with the analysis. Choosing Toyota - the world's richest auto company - to buy GM is a pretty easy solution as long as Toyota buys GM. But I don't understand why you think Toyota would be interested in buying GM given both the political and economic aspects of both companies. And without a company like Toyota to just step in and buy GM, your options become very limited. You're picking an easy "home run" solution that ignores the reality that it probably won't happen, then all of your proposed benefits go out the window.

Comparing GM to Chrysler is too loose as well. They are different animals. Chrysler underwent ownership changes in the past decade and look where it ended up. It's not the best example of the wonders of the private sector stepping in.

On the whole, I don't support bailouts. But the auto industry was different. It was not a level playing field when you get into things like legacy costs.

viking68Feb. 29, 2012 - 12:21PM JST: Obama is doing a good job.

That depends if a person is benefiting from Obama's policies. If not then Obama is not doing a good job.

I can't agree or disagree with the $4 trillion debt amount attributable to Obama. What I can agree on is the debt comes from good old G.W. Bush and is a result of prior president's policies and the so-called neo-conservatives. For example, the tarp bail out, the tax cut/gift to the rich, the trumped up war in Iraq to support Bush's friends and interests in the military industry or to finish daddy's war, the trillion dollar+ expansion of the Orwellian state of the U.S.

The Democracts who are part of the 1% benefit from Bush's policies. Bush's policies wouldn't have passed without the help of Democrats in Congress voting for them.

Obama's big donors are big influences on his policies. It doesn't matter who is the president, the president is highly influenced by big donors.

Bush passed the Patriot Act, but Obama supports and continues the Patriot Act.

DOJ Urges Supreme Court to Halt Challenge to Warrantless Eavesdropping http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/02/scotus-fisa-amendments/

The Obama administration is urging the Supreme Court to halt a legal challenge weighing the constitutionality of a once-secret warrantless surveillance program targeting Americans communications that Congress eventually legalized in 2008.

Even now, the Republicans are saying we should allow wealthy people the ability to be only taxed at 15%. It is completely absurd.

The tax system may not be equal but it is fair. The majority of people pay taxes with the exception of a percentage from the bottom.

Why is Obama going after the milionaires who are most likely business owners and requiring them to pay 30% in taxes?

Skipbeat. Why are working class American still so enamoured with the rich as the think they should be given exceptional tax treatment? The evidence is clear that these classes bleed money from the rest of society and do not give back in terms that are beneficial to the masses.

Can it possibly be the continued illusion that rags to riches actually happens with any statistical regularity? Perhaps in hope that that conservative poor worker may one day transcend his/her class to become that overtaxed millionaire?

It is time for the 99% to put greater pressure upon those who accumulate wealth, often destructively and tax them at a rate that makes more sense and still suffering under the dream of rags to riches once and for all and start fighting for a stronger middle class.

Toyota - the world's richest auto company - to buy GM is a pretty easy solution as long as Toyota buys GM. But I don't understand why you think Toyota would be interested in buying GM given both the political and economic aspects of both companies.

We'll never know given the fact that GM wasn't allowed to go bankrupt (to big to fail and all that) the way normal companies have and have its assets sold at firesale prices to satisfy at least a portion of money owed to their creditors. I would hazard a guess though if GM did go through the normal route and given the fact that its capital investments (actual land and factories with modern assembly lines) was all of the sudden available for pennies on the dollar that Toyota or any other large Auto company in the world would be interested in a heartbeat. Capital investments into new factories takes some serious cash well into the hundred of millions not to mention starting new dealerships (all their existing dealerships would have come with the deal also for the new owners) . But again we'll never know because the taxpayer bail-out makes this null and void.

Chrysler underwent ownership changes in the past decade and look where it ended up. It's not the best example of the wonders of the private sector stepping in.

Maybe yes or maybe no. I do know that private sector company Fiat is the one that has turned Chrysler around and not the Govt. And if Europe does ever recover from its own debt binge and the economy starts growing there again Fiat is the car company that knows how to produce small cars for the European market and Chrysler with her factory assets and cheaper raw materials in the U.S to produce cars is going to be in a very good position if not the in the number position to take advantage of it courtesy of Fiat and the private sector. Then again if that doesn't work out they can always count on another bail-out.

Chapter 11 would have been game over: factories would have been shut down immediately, domino bankruptcies would have followed in their wake amongst suppliers, dealers and pretty much every sector depending on an automaker's paycheck, such as restaurants and department stores, and there would have been no chance that in those days of chaos a white knight would have purchased in a timely manner those assets. The factories, the supply chains behind them, the knowledge and skills would be gone.

Chapter 7 assumes a massive investment by private capital in the understanding that abrogation of legal obligations enabled by bankruptcy would make a going concern viable. Again, in the chaos surrounding '08, the likelihood that an investor with deep enough pockets to make a difference would have appeared is highly unlikely. What would have been required is for the federal government to guarantee private-sector loans; i.e., for taxpayers to guarantee the profits of the very same enterprises the taxpayers were concurrently bailing out.

Romney would certainly have favored the latter route; either would have been disastrous for America.

What Obama has done is unforgiveable. the USA is marching toward euopean style socialism, which will ultimately tear it to bits like grease and the rest of Europia. the American people must be shame of this and eager to elect a pro capitalist president.

...tear it to bits like grease....

Sorry - do you mean the movie "Grease" or the physical substance?

Superlib, Laguna,

As always enjoy the discussion as you do make me think and question if my conservative viewpoint and positions have strong merit. I've run across something, a real world example that supports my view that if GM didn't get a bail-out and went bankrupt the normal way that it would have been bought out at a bargain by another auto maker and would have emerged stronger and better in the long run. Ironically it's about GM and seeing a market years down the line that now has benefited them in ways no one could imagine in returning GM back into a profitable company in 2012. I'll let this speak for itself.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20111031/CHEVY100/310319900/1511

does any American here know someone dumb enough to have bought a Volt? I don't.

peanut: "95% of Americans will get a tax cut. It's the top 5% that won't pay any taxes at all."

Wrong and wrong.

Wouldn't buy a GM car even though I already own most of that company with the my tax dollars I paid on the bailout.

RR

G overnment M otors has halted production of the much-hyped, heavily subsidized Volt, the car America had to build, according to our president, drawing on his vast experience with manufacturing, sales and management.

http://wot.motortrend.com/chevrolet-volt-production-halted-for-5-weeks-due-to-slow-sales-175907.html

1300 laid off.

More green embarrassment.

The media is being blamed.

http://freebeacon.com/gm-halts-volt-production-blames-media/

You read that correctly. The Democrats are blaming the media for not selling enough cars.