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Obama, McCain reach out to Christian voters

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A recent poll by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press found that 12 percent of respondents believe the Democrat is Muslim.

Revealing the number of Americans completely out of touch with reality. 12 percent and they still have not figured this out? The question should be asked to people attempting to vote, and if the answer wrong, should be sent packing.

While many of McCain’s views, including opposition to abortion, match the outlook of conservative Christians, he is far less comfortable than Obama talking about religion.

During the Saturday forum, McCain tended to give shorter, less complex answers, winning somewhat more applause than Obama from the large, evangelical church’s audience.

Showing us a church with a lot of religious but stupid people, even with regard to thier own religion. I wonder how much of Obama's clearly worded and intellecual religious statements just went right over their little heads?

McCain gets more applause, and the reasons are pretty obvious. McCain is more Christian by the default of simple minds, no matter how much Obama proves that he is actually the more religious.

McCain, asked to name the toughest decision in his life, cited his refusal to be released ahead of fellow U.S. prisoners of war in North Vietnam.

You got to hand it to McCain. Good and true answer and proof that he puts his fellow Americans ahead of himself, unlike the current administration.

I just want to know how Obama answered this question.

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McCain isn't even a Christian.

That's where the ball stops.

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The Sen. McCain supporters who have bought into the lie that their candidate is a Christian need to do is explain to the rest of us why - if Sen. McCain is SO focused on continuing a war without end, then exactly what part of God's Commandment "Thou Shalt Not Kill" does he not undersrtand???

The man says he "hates war" and yet he vocally, actively and enthusiastically WANTS to continue the Iraq war.

Americans deserve better than the cheap shots being offered up by Sen. McCain.

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McCain is SO focused on continuing a war without end, then exactly what part of God's Commandment "Thou Shalt Not Kill" does he not undersrtand???

Does't fly. You just have just quoted the Old Testament, which is full of God himself ordering violence on both a large and small scale. He apparently does not understand his own commandment, so we cannot expect more of McCain. Better to stick to the New Testament, but even that can be problematic.

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It's disgusting to see both of these men in a church...

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I fail to understand why a US president must be christian.

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Superlib, Why is it disgusting to see them in a church?

Taka

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"The Obama campaign has been diligently courting religious voters"

Didn't Obama say that the weak-minded or bitter people turn to religion and guns?

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Penetrating analysis - -

USA is a Christian fundamentalist country which make most rational people chuckle so the politicians have to sell out to them in order to get votes.

bork bork

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Once the election starts up the American public will tune into the fact that McCain is unfit for command.

Most Americans still don’t know, as Marshall writes, that on the campaign trail “McCain frequently forgets key elements of policies, gets countries’ names wrong, forgets things he’s said only hours or days before and is frequently just confused.” Most Americans still don’t know it is precisely for this reason that the McCain campaign has now shut down the press’s previously unfettered access to the candidate on the Straight Talk Express.

We had a senile President in the 80s with Reagan, we dont need another one now.

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"We had a senile President in the 80s with Reagan, we dont need another one now."

But I bet we are going to get another one, zurc.

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Superlib, Why is it disgusting to see them in a church?

I don't like any mixing of religion and politics. Just as I don't like seeing people treat politics like a religion.

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Religion is a part of people's lives - and therefore it is not possible to separate it from politics. It is silly to even try to deny religion by attempting to exclude it completely from the political sphere. There is nothing wrong with McCain and Obama participating in the forum. I have always found it odd that American Liberals align themselves with the civil rights era of the 1950's & 60's but fail to appreciate that it had it's basis among the religious (black, white, and Jewish).

Much of civil law is informed by religious moral principles. I am an agnostic (but somehow spiritual) and understand this as being true and I have no problem with that. We all know by 9/11 that religion can be misused by groups and individuals for nefarious puposes. On the whole, it is a positive force in society and shouldn't be disregarded due to it's misuse by greedy or maniacal people.

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Good points, wolfpack.

I don't see how anyone can look at the overall tone and thrust of the New Left's 'message' and miss the basically religious element (however perverted) and the religious pose its exponents strike.

It's no coincidence that Obama finds himself caricatured as 'The Chosen One', 'Obamessiah' etc. Nor is it a coincidence that there are dozens of photos and mag covers of Obama's head surrounded by a halo of some sort.

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Articles like this make me wonder if the USA really has separation between church and state.

A candidate should NOT target specific religious, racial, etc groups.

Just my view.

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Will someone answer my question above??? ;) Well, I will ask it again : why a US president absolutely has be christian to be elected????

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majimekun - there is no law that states that the US president "must" be a Christian. However, Christianity has been a part of American culture since it's founding (although that has been in decline in recent decades). As you might expect, a non-Christian doesn't have much chance of being elected due to a lack of shared cultural values with the electorate. Therefore, even someone who isn't all that outwardly religious - say like Jonh McCain - is going to try to emphasis their religious side a little more than maybe they are used to. I would say that this is analogous to Obama's effort to seem patriotic to middle-America when he and most other Liberals are not usually very comfortable with overt patriotism.

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Will someone answer my question above??? ;) Well, I will ask it again : why a US president absolutely has be christian to be elected????

Consider the variety we have in the US. From the very start you had a mix of European nationalities, and now it is vastly more diverse. I think one explanation is that people in this nation of immigrants look for what you could call the largest common denominator in how their neighbors' and coworkers' and politicians' values are formed. Religion is one of the quickest ways to determine that. Add to that the fact, indisputable, of the role that Chrisitanity played in the West's development of democracy and capitalism and science. For all of its shortcomings the Judeo-Christian worldview was and is far, far more tolerant of secular 'challenges' to its supremacy than any I can think of.

Personally, I'd like to know if it is true that even in modern day England only a baptized Anglican can become prime minister? Is this true?

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Americans are still living in the dark ages when it comes to religion. A bit Taliban like.

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Americans are still living in the dark ages when it comes to religion. A bit Taliban like.

Odd comparison, for a someone who believes America is too pro-Israel.

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Americans are still living in the dark ages when it comes to religion. A bit Taliban like." So you are against Islam too? The New Left has embraced Islam for the most part.

I have always found it odd that American Liberals align themselves with the civil rights era of the 1950's & 60's but fail to appreciate that it had it's basis among the religious (black, white, and Jewish)." Don't you equally find it hard that they would go nuts over a plaque with the 10 Commandments in some court, but think its ok to have a drivers' license photo with a Burka?

Religion is bad, but Jews and Christians have a much toned down version it than the other one.

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I think it is unfortunate that people feel that religion is bad. Religion itself is not bad. It is the people that misuse it that are bad. I would think that would be self-evident to most people. I give Obama credit for showing up at Rick Warren's forum and showing that he is not allergic to religion like so many Liberals can be.

To say that American is 'a bit Taliban like' is a flippant and unfortunate attempt at moral equivalence.

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Wolfpack: Believe me, I don't like the idea that I feel religion is bad, but when "I" look at it, it seems it has bought way too much bad than it has good. Please understand my point. Both of my parents were Roman Catholics who both one day became left (60's when they were against religion and Castro was not come celebrity for them). Additionally, my mom's version of Roman Catholic was more or less Santería and I don't agree with the idea of cutting off animals heads to worship! I see Jews, Muslim, and all others fighting in the states for dominance on how to run a country. I'll denounce my nationality (If that is possible) if the US became a country run under any religious rules.

Yes, Obama deserves a lot credit for showing up and I glad he answered things the way he did. I bump him up a notch for it. He didn't pander. I didn't get to see too much from McCain though.

however, on the flip, I guess we have to accept that the Christians are a large voting block, much like African Americans (who many are actually in that Christian block), women, Mexican Americans... there is even now a large Islamic voting block which has put several into office. I guess there is no getting around it.

Honestly, I never even heard of this Warran guy until the other day.

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Thanks for the explanation guys. But I have the feeling that, maybe, the political religiousness isn't representative of the people religiousness. What's the percentage of atheists anyway?

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What's the percentage of atheists anyway?" I think an atheist would serve the current demographics of America.

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Hmm, considering that being an atheist is now an accepted religion in the states(only country that recognizes atheism as a religion) I don't think you will get an accurate answer.

Same way that many americans think that being agnostic = atheism, etc.

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Example:

I am an agnostic. In short I don't accept any god as a higher authority, in the same vein I don't believe in the concept of hell/devil as it is tied to the same religion that accepts/supports a god.

So if I don't believe/accept god how can I believe/worship the devil which comes from the same religion.

I neither deny nor accept god, till I got evidence that he exists or don't.

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I'm with Superlib on this one. Church and state should be two totally seperate things. It's like mixing politics and sex fetiches;

In home, in private or in designated closed-door member areas, and none of anyone else's freakin' business.

Ignoring Senator Obama's religious ramblings, the fact that McCain for example feels he's "saved and forgiven" actually freaks the hell out of me.

I mean, how does he know he's "saved"? "Saved" from what exactly? Who "forgave" him? And more importantly, for what?

Organized religion was written and ammended by man to easier control man. The weak-minded have needed this to live in la-la land and refuse the hated reality that their existence is a freak occurence for example, and that one day they'll snuff it into oblivion with all the bugs, animals an every other organism on this planet - but hey, that's their business.

And that's why it should be a private matter, not mixed in with politics at this level.

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The irony is that one's piety wasn't such a big deal until the religious right started freaking out about losing power, so we are actually more obsessed with the religiosity of the American President than Americans were 100 years ago. That's progress for you, fundamentalist-style.

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Thanks for the explanation guys. But I have the feeling that, maybe, the political religiousness isn't representative of the people religiousness. What's the percentage of atheists anyway?

The percentage of Americans who ACT like not merely atheists, but flat out blasphemers -- i.e., don't read the Bible, don't regularly attend church, never think hard about morals or ethics, lie, cheat, steal, don't say grace, don't know or care what your religion specifically says you should or should not do, take the Lord's name in vain, commit adultery, act selfish, mean, violent, burn resources like there's no tomorrow, put money before God, family, friends and country etc. etc. probably isn't different from most other countries. Which is why it's flat-out irresponsible to have a religion where all you have to do is self-identify. All the self-righteousness without any of the work, man it must be great to be a so-called God-fearing American in the 21st Century.

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Heh Chardk1,

You only have to look at he actions of men of "god" such as Pastor Ted.

When the media frst found he was a meth and man-sex fiend he denied it. When the evidence mounted up he disapeared to enter three weeks of intensive counseling, overseen by four ministers. Then, on February 6, 2007 one of those ministers, Tim Ralph, stated that Haggard "is completely heterosexual."

Heh, and the religious Denial is complete.

Like I said, people adhering to religion to these extremes are scary. That is why it should have no place in politics, anywhere.

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Like I said, people adhering to religion to these extremes are scary.' Very much agreed, which brings my point earlier in the month that both McC and O are true politicians. Here they both are pandering in a way to get votes. Which is reasons why I don't like the idea of a politician having a rock star status nor a war hero's status.

We got Obama going to a church of a nut case and McCain hanging out with backwoods church goers.

I know there are good people following a religion but for the most part, I don't believe there is the best or worst relion which leaves me with since none are good and none are bad, why don't we just leave it alone.

I think, really, if the US government were able to ban religion, the outcome would not be as bad as many think, so now is the time to ban it.

Have we ever had a high level politician who was an admitted atheist?

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"Have we ever had a high level politician who was an admitted atheist?"

Exactly. I'd wager that Obama is a closet athiest, perhaps even McCain. The God Squad team of Americans voting are not to be ignored, however. Vote pandering it is.

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"A recent poll by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press found that 12 percent of respondents believe the Democrat is Muslim."

ie. 12 percent of respondents are complete idiots and bigots, who can only ASSUME what someone's beliefs are based on their name (oh, and in case no one knew it, the most popular male name in the world is 'Muhammed', and that's a fact! but does that mean ALL people named Muhammed are Muslim? Not one iota!).

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ie. 12 percent of respondents are complete idiots and bigots, who can only ASSUME what someone's beliefs are based on their name

Or maybe they understand Islam a little better than you do. Obama can convert to Christianity, but technically he can never leave Islam without certain fatal consequences, established and agreed upon over a thousand years ago by all four major schools of Islamic jurisprudence.

Or, maybe they have seen the application young Barry Soetoro's stepfather submitted to the Catholic school Barack Hussein Obama attended in Indonesia, and noticed the word 'Islam' in the box asking about religious affiliation. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2062622/posts

Maybe it was Obama's support for his Kenyan cousin Raila Odinga, who has pledged to bring Sharia law to Kenya. http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/433766/the-kenyan-jihad.thtml.

Maybe it was his other cousin's frequent contention that Barack is a Muslim.

Maybe they are a bit wary of the fact that Obama's church of twenty years, rabidly anti-American, was led by a former Muslim.

Significantly, the suspicion that Obama was/is a Muslim is not limited to one party:

There is no difference in the percentage of Democrats or Republicans who think Obama is a Muslim. And of the Democrats who think Obama is Muslim, 19 percent said they preferred McCain over Obama. "Democrats who share the misconception are significantly less likely to support Obama," Pew said about the poll. http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/08/12/tough_tasks_await_obama_on_march_to_convention/

Whether it is a 'misconception' depends to me on how closely the media really wants to look at Islamic law.

I'm not defending voters' beliefs here, just explaining some of the basis for their suspicions.

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"Or maybe they understand Islam a little better than you do."

Heh, yeah right. I suppose the fairly frightening percentage of Americans that thought Saddam played an active role in 9/11 were the same comprehending ones....

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People would probably be less concerned over "moral" issues from a political standpoint if they weren't worried that a handful of people in Washington D.C. could dictate morality to them. This cuts both ways, too. It's not just a right-left issue.

For example, would the people of Alabama be particularly concerned about the political consequences of San Francisco policy if they didn't foresee it as a precedent for future federal policy. The same goes for prayer at a graduation. Would people in San Fran be particularly concerned about the political consequences of public prayer in Alabama if they didn't worry it would be forced down their throats by a federal government.

What ever happened to all other powers not specified in the constitution being left to the states and the people?

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When asked about America’s greatest moral failure, Obama said it is the insufficient help the U.S. gives the disadvantaged. He noted that the Bible quotes Jesus as saying “whatever you do for the least of my brothers, you do for me.” He said the maxim should apply to victims of poverty, sexism and racism.

It seems that Jesus was asking his followers to do these things of their own freewill - in other words charity. However, Obama seems to think all Americans (regardless of personal belief, personal financial circumstances, etc.) should be forced at point of gun to give to the needy. Taxation collected by threat of force where what Jesus aked for is that people act through love of neighbor of their own freewill.

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undecided - "Obama can convert to Christianity, but technically he can never leave Islam without certain fatal consequences, established and agreed upon over a thousand years ago by all four major schools of Islamic jurisprudence."

You're so clueless, it's scary.

I know you know you're just winding JT posters up, and I know you know that you think some of us have the IQ of toothpaste, but just to set the record straight, Obama ain't converting to Christianity any time soon, coz he has been one for years, unlike the old guy you unwillingly support.

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sdmsec - "Obama seems to think all Americans (regardless of personal belief, personal financial circumstances, etc.) should be forced at point of gun to give to the needy."

I'd like to see you prove that wild claim.....

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There are reasons people have concerns about muslims, their laws are outlandish and to note that even they say themselves that Muslims can not live amongst others - that is their quote, not mine.. just as many people, and ESPECIALLY, Smitty, have concerns about some old white Christian guy who is against a woman's right to choose, and with smitty's thinking is probably a closet kkk member. Just because he is one of those play safe because I am frightened by you so I'll join you types, he feels people should have the same feelings as he does. He is not very open minded.

Who is to say that since Obama is American he is a Muslim and must follow those ridiculous rules Islam has about converting. Is he in danger like others have been for converting or has there been an exception made for him?

the insufficient help the U.S. gives the disadvantaged. He noted that the Bible quotes Jesus as saying “whatever you do for the least of my brothers, you do for me.” He said the maxim should apply to victims of poverty, sexism and racism." I hate when politician try to quote the bible. Nothing more than an open ended rule book. How much has he and his wife (all politicians talking the same thing) given? I am sure they gave, but how much did they give that had an impact on them personally. If anyone feels the US has not given enough, how about if the US just stops dead in its tracks and not give a cent?

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Kinda humorous to watch Euros speculate on and shake their lil fists at the role of faith in US presidential elections.

I've always felt much of the supposedly excessive religiosity in America sprang from the overwhelming gratitude most of us feel.

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Obama ain't converting to Christianity any time soon, coz he has been one for years, unlike the old guy you unwillingly support.

As with his university academic records, his true birth cert (the one his handlers posted on daily Kos is fake)and the client list where he worked as a lawyer, Obama refuses to release the record of his baptism at Trinity Church...

Check the links I posted, sushisake. The photo from Indonesia looks pretty authentic. It's not hard to see the word 'Islam' in the box.

Personally, I'd love to see Obama tell Islamofascists like Quaddaffi (or his own Kenyan cousin for that matter), both of whom have insisted publicly that the Democrat nominee is Muslim, how he, the 'World Citizen',somehow came to choose Christianity over the Islam faith he saw and experienced in Indonesia, Kenya, and elsewhere.

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The Saddleback Church in California is not conservative. Its non-partisan and socially progressive.

Many "Evangelicals" are not conservative. They are liberals.

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*"sdmsec - "Obama seems to think all Americans (regardless of personal belief, personal financial circumstances, etc.) should be forced at point of gun to give to the needy."

sushi - I'd like to see you prove that wild claim....."*

Refuse paying your federal taxes for a while. First, you'll be deprived of your property. Then they'll ask you to kindly surrender your freedom. If you refuse the offer the "law" will show up with sufficient force to deprive you of your freedom.

Taxes that are collected from citizens via force (again, try not paying them and you'll soon find out taxes ARE collected by force) and are then transferred to other citizens (and in some cases non-citizens) don't represent charity but socialism (an ugly canker to any society).

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sdmsec: you know, you bring up a good point. How come no candidate brings up better and more humane way of getting taxes? Man, you go away a lot longer, even if you really can't pay, than if you killed someone.

If librels are supposed to be open minded and accept new, then please come up with a better tax system. If conservatives are supposed to be of the old, then why don't they go backwards and go back to the days when taxes made sense?

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In a democratic republic such as the U.S. the most "just" tax would be either a poll tax (taxation in direct proportion to representation) or a citizen tax (divide the national budget by the number of citizens and send a bill to every citizen). I can't see that any other form of taxation is justifiable if every citizen has "one vote" and has "equal rights".

Regardless of the "form" of taxation it's immoral to forceably take the possessions of one citizen and hand it to another citizen. Most of us recognize this behavior as "theft". Clearly, tax assessment is needed for certain things as set forth in the Constitution (i.e. common defense). However, to take from citizens generally and give to other individual citizens directly is corrupt. FYI this also occurs in the form of corporate welfare. Look at what Obama is promising in his TV ads - I will create 7 million new jobs in the "new" energy sector. In other words, he will "advantage" particular industries and companies with wealth taken from the citizens in general. Watch everyone crowd to kiss the kings hand!

As for the comment about "liberals" I hope to gain some common ground with the liberals over the politics of social issues. I think the BIG federal government should have its powers (every branch) trimmed to what the Constitution allows. That way the more "liberal" states can live life as they see fit, and the more "conservative" states can do likewise.

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That way the more "liberal" states can live life as they see fit, and the more "conservative" states can do likewise" Man, please run for office! Finally, the most sensible thing said. Will O allow that? Will McC? At the moment, it is choose where you want to live but not live as you want!

Yes, I agree you and when I hear people say the US need to be more generous, all I can think of how many people can't even feed their children yet when he/she gets their long desired and much need job after a long time being out of work, the first thing they notice is what on their pay check? Tax taken. I haven't notice either candidate talk more in-depth about the poverty in the US. O talks about black poverty and McC doesn't talk about it all. I am more than willing to pay taxes but when I am not even living in the US and yet I still must pay taxes while paying Japanese taxes, I can't help but get frustrated when I hear talk about "We need to be more generous and if you look in the bible....." all I want to do is throw up.

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Man, please run for office!

I need to give credit where it's due: the idea of eliminating so many political hot-button, social issues by eliminating the unconstitutional powers of federal judges, congressmen, and the president comes from Ron Paul. If you haven't read it yet, I'd highly recommend "The Revolution" by Ron Paul. While I don't agree 100% with Mr. Paul's views I learned a lot and have changed my opinion of many things. Either way, it made me think, which is a good thing.

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I really haven't come into contact with Ron Paul. I heard he's a racist and would like someone like me in the states.....

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skip,

The 2007 Pew Research survey puts the percentage of atheists/unaffiliated at 12%. Personally, I believe that religion has absolutely no place in US politics. If the Founding Fathers saw the way these people pander to religion they would probably be ashamed of the country they started. wolfpack, please read Susan Jacoby's book Freethinkers to get an idea about how much of a role non-theists played in the civil rights movement.

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skip,

I don't know anything about Ron Paul being a racist - a term which people seem to throw around casually here on JT. Nothing in the book I recommended would suggest it.

Anyhow, as I said earlier, I don't agree 100% with his views in the book, but it's still a great read as it will make you consider "why" you hold the views you do at a deeper level.

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seansezso

I just want to know how Obama answered this question.

Obama never actually answered the question, which was "When do a baby's human rights begin?"

Instead he side-stepped it and proceeded to justify his belief in pro-choice or abortions. He could have elaborated and said that he didn't believe a fetus had rights.

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As a Christian, I can say I am not comfortable with either one of them. The presidential candidate I was more intune with dropped out months ago. I am having a difficult time with the choice of candidates. I can only hope that the VP will aid in my decison. If I were to vote today, I would leave it blank.

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Ohiodonna

Why are you uncomfortable with the candidates?

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actually, abortion shouldn't even be an issue at the presidential level as far as I am concerned. There are far too many issue floating at the level that shouldn't be and this religious stuff is one of them.

Leave abortion as a woman's right but teach them that its not the best way to deal with an unwanted pregnancy if you don't like it. Also, as a poster once actually shut me up about it, if its a woman's right to keep or not to keep then a guy should have a right to pay or not pay for a child.

At issue, I would have been very happy if both candidates just skipped it! That would have impressed me. But, lately again, I am disappointed by both candidates.

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Ohiodonna

Why are you uncomfortable with the candidates?

For a number of reasons. For example: McCain has more experience with the military while Obama has more experience with racial inequality. One is older and one is younger. This is just two examples among many. For me to make my choice one of them will have to have someting that stands out above the other. So far that has not happened for me and I am running out of time. In some ways their words are similar. The termonology use in their speeches is different yet means the same thing if one listens intently to what they have to say.

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Anyone who thought that religion, i.e., Christianity, and politics don't mix in America just doesn't know real America. It's always been that way, just like it has been with race and politics.

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If one is a part of a belief system then the chosen lifestyle should impact everyday living including politics. I do not belong to a group that prefers one candidate over another nor do I not campaign for a particular candidate or try to influence others. I work at the polls on voting day so I have learned to keep my opinions to myself.

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