Obama ready to ban waterboarding, other interrogation techniques

Thank you Barack. < :-)

Yadda yadda, call Jack Bauer.

now, if we could only get the U.S.A. to ban cluster bombs and land mines. and stop selling automatic rifles in the horn of africa.

How about instead of talking about torture, they make it harder for people to enter the US and closely watch who is in the US, how long they have over stayed their visas, what they are doing before anything comes to put us in the position we were in.

So not much will change. Obama is just going to do a better job of selling it. Brilliant. :)

personally, I don't know this is such an open discussion. I mean, why are you going to tell your enemies and potential enemies that you will or you won't torture them?

I consider being forced to listen to country music, torture, but many will disagree. I don't consider throwing a bible down a toilet torture, but some will disagree. My brothers used to dunk the hell out of me in the pool, that was torture but got used to it.

skip: "Why, then that would mean someone else will get the deal."

So you agree to the US taking the moral low-road for money?

Anyway, good on Obama. Finally a president who takes the moral high road and honestly believes the US is a country above the likes and actions of terrorists.

smith, I don't hve evidence, but I am sure if we didn't sell the weapons, Russia would or some other country. Why not keep the money?

Well there goes good intel. I recommend threatening to kill their families like they do in 24. Jack Bauer really can do that well. If they can do that on TV then just think what they really can do in real life... really.

Obama: We know you have information on your terrorist buddies.

Terrorist: Death to America!

Obama: Read him his rights, then give him three squares a day and a Koran.

Waterboarding is so old hat anyway, it has probably given way to more effective techniques.

Seriously, if the war on terrorism is to be sold to the public as a battle between good and evil (with the US and it allies hopefully being the "good" side), then it is pretty hard to capture and keep the moral highground if prisoners are being subjected to such harsh forms of punishment and the media are reporting on it. The choice is simple, either you ban such practices, or you keep them out of the public eye. This is something that the Bush administration failed to understand.

But if we cut off their heads we are no better than they are. So I think waterboarding is a very light punishment. And after all they get nice orange overhauls and 3 squares a day and a Koran to boot. I bet they even get a prayer mat. Man they have it so good in Gitmo.

He will convert them, too. He will make fine, upstanding community organizers of the whole lot. Amen.

skipthesong: "smith, I don't hve evidence, but I am sure if we didn't sell the weapons, Russia would or some other country"

I'm 100% convinced that you are correct, and history has shown that to be the case; I'm not arguing against you on that. I was just suggesting that instead of simply making a few bucks, why not take the moral high road and NOT sell weapons to said countries?

bushlover: "But if we cut off their heads we are no better than they are."

Suffice it to say that if you cut off their heads they won't talk much. Clearly the purpose in doing so is to kill, not to interrogate.

Thank you Smith for your agreement. Now we know that Waterboarding is the only alternative to get them to tell us anything.

Egypt. Place an order for thumb screws and genital torture devices. Obama's CIA is passing the buck to you.

bebert: who did they place the order with? My guess is its with those guards over there at Gitmo, who are well stocked and now want to off load stuff. They have to clear out the dungeons for the incoming Obama administration whom i suspect is going take all their asses to task on this matter.

bushlover: "Thank you Smith for your agreement. Now we know that Waterboarding is the only alternative to get them to tell us anything."

A very amateur attempt to twist my words. In fact, my sarcastic comment conveyed the fact that cutting off someone's head is not at all the same as waterboarding someone, and while both are wrong and doing EITHER puts you on par with your enemy, the purposes for each are quite different (hence, incomparable).

Of course, I'm not really surprised that you automatically seem to think disagreeing with cutting off someone's head means you therefore agree with waterboarding as an alternative.

Regardless, as I said in the beginning, good on Obama. The US can finally lift itself above the terrorists and actually BELIEVE it when they say they are not morally bankrupt.

However, Obama’s changes may not be absolute. His advisers are considering adding a classified loophole to the rules that could allow the CIA to use some interrogation methods not specifically authorized by the Pentagon, the officials said.

and

The plans do not specifically address the issue of extraordinary rendition, the policy of transferring foreign terrorism suspects to third countries without court approval.

and

For Obama, who repeatedly insisted during the 2008 presidential campaign and the transition period that “America doesn’t torture,” a classified loophole would allow him to back up his vow to end harsh interrogations while retaining a full range of presidential options in conducting the war against terrorism.

from daydream:

Thank you Barack. < :-)

from smithinjapan:

Good on Obama. Finally a president who takes the moral high road and honestly believes the US is a country above the likes and actions of terrorists.

SuperLib: Well, I have to hand it to you, you sure did a good job of cutting and pasting in selective portinos of the article here. So, I'll tell you what... if Obama goes back on his word in banning waterboarding, I'll be awfully disappointed in him. That suit you? What's more, if I find out he was bending laws and using loopholes to torture by other means when he clearly said what you posted, I'll be disappointed in him as well.

anyone here no of an incident where POWs gave info voluntarily? I don't torturing people, but is there really an alternative? I heard truth serum was just a hoax. These days, with the information available to make bombs (look through the Spanish language sites, you'll find a lot as its not censored) and the tactics that common people are targets, I think we need to do something to extract the info...

I hope the incoming admin has an alternative.

SuperLib, you may condone torture.

I don't.

Barack's not going to authorize torture either, no matter how you want to spin your yarn. < :-)

I am surprised no one talks about the Geneva Conventions, general accepted world standards pertaining to torture, Nuremburg and Tokyo Trials - has the US changed that much in terms of basic principles? Can the US make up their own rules pertaining to torture?

I only condone torture on dick cheney.

from smithinjapan:

Good on Obama. Finally a president who takes the moral high road and honestly believes the US is a country above the likes and actions of terrorists.

It seems to me, when "W" took the "moral high ground" as he believed in doing the things that he did (Iraq, Afg, etc) people blast him and the US as being heavy-handed and trying to make the world conform to the US world view.

Now that Obama is getting close to the seat, it is now ok for the US to "lead the moral way."

Remember, the Islamist that blow themselves up and take innoncents along with them also think that they are doing the "moral thing."

But, I guess we just have to sit back and watch the double standards begin.

"Barack's not going to authorize torture"

The little asterisk will:

"The proposed loophole, which could come in the form of a classified annex to the manual, would satisfy intelligence experts who fear that an outright ban of so-called enhanced interrogation techniques would limit the government in obtaining threat information that could save American lives. It would also preserve Obama’s flexibility to authorize any interrogation tactics he might deem necessary for national security."

madverts: I only condone torture on dick cheney.

hahahah

Obama's gonna use torture. He's just going to sell it differently and set it up in a way that will be covered by plausible deniability. He already has smith and daydream on board. Personally, I was sold on the guy from the beginning.

"Now that Obama is getting close to the seat..."

He's finding out just how right Bush and Cheney are on a lot of stuff.

I didn't mean it to be a joke, super.

A. dick condones it so I'd like to see him show us the way and B. he sez it's harmless so I'd like him to show us the way.

Also, since contrary to what experts on torture tell us on the quality of the intel gleaned from torture, I'd like to hear what dick has to say during the eight years he spent.....well, doing whatever he did hid away in that bunker whilst VP.

Alphaape: I understand your point (at least, I think the point you were trying to make) about moral high-ground being subjective, but I also think it's pretty straight forward that refusing to torture people like the terrorists you fight against is a good case of following the morals/principles you preach. All your comment shows is that bush took the moral low-ground, and very easily, I might add. Now he asks 'why me?' in his farewell speech, which was pathetic (although the entertainment value was priceless and will be for decades).

Madverts: "Also, since contrary to what experts on torture tell us on the quality of the intel gleaned from torture, I'd like to hear what dick has to say during the eight years he spent.....well, doing whatever he did hid away in that bunker whilst VP."

Agreed. You know, I am 100% against torture. However, for Cheney I would make an exception with waterboarding simply to prove that it is not 'safe' as he says, and both to get the scandals he committed against Americans while in office, and to show that he is nothing but a lying sack of sh$$, etc. Of course, I would ask that people be present to monitor his safety, etc. Besides that, just tell him it's a Disney Land ride or preparation for his move to Dubai. If he believes it's not torture, why should he or anyone be against doing it? If he, after the experiences, says it wasn't bad, then keep it going. If he cries and begs for it to stop, then stop it with everyone. Seems a pretty decent test run of how things should be.

"President-elect Barack Obama"

This is not my fault.

smithinjapan: I am 100% against torture. However, for Cheney I would make an exception

Then you're not 100% against torture.

[You know, I am 100% against torture. However, for Cheney I would make an exception with waterboarding simply to prove that it is not 'safe' as he says, and both to get the scandals he committed against Americans while in office,] Then you stoop to the level of the Terrorists. Does this make you a big hypocrite? Yes in many people's book. But we wouldn't expect any lower from a flip flop liberal.

I am so glad I never went into the Federal Govt, I could not implement that "torture" order.