Obama, Republicans clash at heated health summit

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U.S. has extensive problems with malpractice lawsuits in health care industry which result in higher health care cost. This is one area in U.S. that continues to lead the world and should be addressed as a main point. The House and Senate bills each contain provisions aiming to improve patient safety and offering grants to states that develop alternate ways to resolve disputes over medical errors. Proponents of broader malpractice reforms dismiss these proposals as inadequate while trial lawyers have rejected another possible compromise, moving toward the middle on medical malpractice reform, the creation of special “health courts” that would hear cases and medical errors and malpractice.

"Do what God requires, Fear Not; trust God, not man"

What a load of jizz.

USA being sucked dry by greedy bankers and other white collar criminals, crooked insurance companies, lawyers, warmongers, and loony christian republican morons.

isnt it funny how america cant afford health care for its own people but it can afford wars in two countries, and a military budget of epic proportions. Those insurance company lobbyists are earning their money now.

. Our extended family can ignore insurance. Self insure: 5 family members x 5 monthly premiums = mega dollars saved to pay IF doctor visit needed. Even one person can self-insure instead of about minimum of $960 a year premium ($80 mo.).

Do the math. Can’t we self insure with the savings from not buying insurance, either alone or with extended family? Most things only require diet, herbs, rest or limited doctor’s office. Fear is enemy of faith. We are saved by faith.

We can overcome this unconstitutional Health Care Reform bill. Too much profit is made on fear and doctor visits from connected business interests. Defeat medical and insurance plans. Do what God requires, Fear Not; trust God, not man

Odogma writes: "Political suicide for the Democrats"

Really, what do you care?

The Democrats may suffer at the polls but the American people will be one step closer to comprehensive health care without the risk of personal bankruptcy, home foreclosure, and the other horrors associated with a serious medical diagnosis for millions of Americans.

If they suffer losses at the polls, that means the nation goes back to Republican hands -- and we all know all that they did to drive the U.S. into the ditch.

I keep reading on American political web sites that unless the bill is truly bipartisan resistance from the American public to the so-called nuclear option of 'reconciliation' is close to 75 percent. Political suicide for the Democrats. Or maybe the 2000-page bill, hitherto kept from being scrutinised by an electorate that the establishment media has been demonizing for months now, creates a new America, where loyal Democrats, politically at least, can never die...

There will be 300 million Americans in a health care system that cannot pay for anyones health care.

This statement can only be true to the extent of the ratio between healthy people who put minimal demands (and thus costs) on the system and the number of unhealthy people -- reduced to a simplistic metric.

Once some sort of nationalized risk pool was put into place, there would be a tremendous incentive to lower costs by individuals who would begin to act more out of the self-interest by taking better care of their own health. Because the healthier the overall pool of people, the lower the overall costs would be. The profit motive would certainly drive things towards reducing demand on the system through better health maintenance, because in a system where risk and insurance costs are tightly regulated, the biggest bank for a buck will come from measures that reduce the demand for corrective measures in the first place.

The ideal individual process would be for a person to live in a high degree of health and mobility until it becomes time for their body to start shutting down -- a process that doesn't take all that long or require expensive procedures. An erstwhile healthy 90-year-old isn't likely to get on a heart transplant list, once their heart starts to weaken.

adaydream:

Even Wolfpack has said that we need to allow the poor and old to die. < :-)

That's a flat out lie and you know it.

I would prefer the government address the problem of getting health care to those that cannot afford it and not make a hugely expensive overhaul of the entire system that the government cannot sustain and the American people do not want. That doesn't mean I want people to die - what's wrong with you?

yabits:

And the Republicans have no feasible plan to address that whatsoever.

You are exactly right and that is why I am no longer a registered Republican. At least Conservatives want to keep the government from taking on more budgetary obligations. ObamaCare will compete for funds with Social Security and other government social programs that have fixed and built-in cost increases from one year to the next.

At least President Bush attempted to address a serious federal entitlement issue that is unsustainable. Democrats refused even to engage in the debate or put forth their own ideas - talk about the party of 'No'.

If Democrats want to raise huge amounts in taxes for anything, it should be to pay for the programs we already have and not to create a new one.

adaydream:

Translation: Let's have more and more poor people die off. Translation: Death Panels. Are you deserving to live a long life or are you just fodder for the cemetery? Thanks Wolfpack. I appreciate your insight on the health care issue. < :-)

It's a nice sentiment to say that you want the government to safeguard everyones life by spending money that we don't have but it's just not sustainable. Once Dems force everyone into a government system that the government cannot continue to fund due to huge budget defificts, there will be more than just 15 million poor Americans that cannot afford health insurance. There will be 300 million Americans in a health care system that cannot pay for anyones health care.

The government should look to assist those people that are simply too poor to afford health insurance and not force everyone into a system that the American people do not want (see Liberal columnist David Broders analysis of the publics view of the debate: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2010/02/28/and_now_to_the_voters_104589.html)

Government run health care will become another huge government program just like Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid that will swallow up the vast majority of the federal budget forcing government to either continue to borrow more money or cut other important priorities. At some point, the government will not be able to continue borrowing from the Chinese and will have to face up to it's fiscal situation. Putting that day of reckoning only makes it harder later on. President Obama and the majority of Democrats are socialist ideologues that are blind to economic and fiscal reality.

By the way, your arguments will carry more weight if you were to actually address the opposing viewpoint (ie. the unsustainability of government spending) instead of simply saying people against government run health care want other people to die.

adaydream;

the irony is that since the US population is so large, the tax increases would be minor compared to the percentage paid even now by citizens of other countries.

If they banned HFCS and transfatty acid, that would help diabetes and weight, but again it takes a country that cares about its citizens, and not beholden to corporate interest. I remain hopeful as any observer of America, but deep down it's not even really a democracy. Education is supposed to train you to notice when you're being played for advantage but that's not being realized either.

What a mess.

sf2k, I've been talking about raising taxes for a long time. You can't fix the country's economy with tax breaks for the rich.

We are eventually going to have to raise taxes to pay for the war, stimulus and health care. The republicans plan is to have the poor folks just die off. Even Wolfpack has said that we need to allow the poor and old to die. < :-)

who knows this might even start a conversation along the lines of 'maybe we should raise taxes so that we can pay for everything including the health of our nation like other first-world countries in the world, pay off our debts, and not be beholden to China'. Won't happen I know, but I did say might.

Truly if Americans cannot accept responsibilities as citizens which require payments to the state like in any other quality country, then the whole argument by a bunch of multi-millionaires is a complete waste of time.

I think the issue comes down to the fact that Americans already have an unsustainable amount of government spending and President Obama's plan simply creates more unsustainable spending for an aging population whose health care needs will continue to grow.

And the Republicans have no feasible plan to address that whatsoever.

Remember, these are the same Republicans who think that ending social security and putting retirement funds in the stock and bond market is their idea of saving for retirement. Or at least they used to tout that method before the financial meltdown brought them a taste of what a disaster their plan would have meant for ordinary people.

What we need is less government spending on health care, not more.

Translation: Let's have more and more poor people die off.

President Obama's plan simply creates more unsustainable spending for an aging population whose health care needs will continue to grow.

Translation: Death Panels. Are you deserving to live a long life or are you just fodder for the cemetery?

Thanks Wolfpack. I appreciate your insight on the health care issue. < :-)

Too bad the republicans obviousy have no interest in improving the basic needs of their own population.

I think the issue comes down to the fact that Americans already have an unsustainable amount of government spending and President Obama's plan simply creates more unsustainable spending for an aging population whose health care needs will continue to grow. The US is running a $1.6 trillion "annual" deficit now. More spending and highter taxes for health care leaves less room for actually reducing the defict. What we need is less government spending on health care, not more.

The last time that the plans in Congress were "scored", it was determined that the plan as written would reduce spending over ten years by around $250 billion. First of all, this is a tiny amount of savings that would not stop current government health care spending from adding to the deficit. So the deficit will still grow even with the plan. Secondly, the plan used ten years of taxes to pay for six or seven years of health care spending. Therefore, the savings are an illusion. This is the underlying dishonesty of the Democrats legislation.

We are already seeing European countries on the brink of bankruptcy. Greece is just the first with Italy, Ireland, and others moving in that direction as well. The US is moving that way also even without an even greater government control over health care than it already has. Current spending on Social Security and health care (Medicaid and Medicare) are drowning the country in debt. ObamaCare does not solve these problems but simply compounds them by adding additional unfunded government obligations. Just ask the governments actuaries about future obligations and it's terrifying. No more government programs - cut them instead! It's the only way to avoid a coming fiscal disaster of the likes we now see in Greece.

Its funny for us in scandinavia to hear about these crazy news about how difficult it is to get a health reform through. Obama is considered a right wing liberal according to european standards, but still many conservative right wing americans have the idea that the Health reform is some kind of evil socialist thing. Fact is still that existing american health care system is extremely expensive compared to the system that exists in europe. Too bad the republicans obviousy have no interest in improving the basic needs of their own population.

I did watch the broadcast, and I stand by my comment. Obama's the one who's still campaigning.

If you'd watched the broadcast you'd have heard McCain spouting the same old crap he campaigned on. Running his mouth with his same campaign talking points.

But since you didn't watch it, you didn't understand the lead up or the slap. Just you're commenting about something out of context. < :-)

"Obama looked right at McCain and said, "We're not campaigning anymore. The election's over."

Unable to respond to constructive criticism, that's what Obama was reduced to.

No, it was sweet. Obama was responding to a republican comment, sure wasn't a suggestion, and in mid-response Obama looked right at McCain and said, "We're not campaigning anymore. The election's over,"

I must admit that McCain was pretty good with his response; McCain said, "Yes, I'm reminded of that every day."

It was one of those memorial Obama moments. < :-)

"Barack Obama slapped John McCain down"

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! After the condescending man-child said, "We're not campaigning anymore. The election's over," McCain said, "Yes, I'm reminded of that every day."

President Obama has a strategy to force America to be socialists whether they want to be or not. He has gambled that his arrogant fillibuster of a meeting yesterday would allow him to make his central planning dreams come true. The problem is the public still hates his policies - especially his two major policy agenda items - health care and global warming. Even with 60 Democrat votes in Congress he couldn't get his health care boondoggle through Congress. A Republican won a special election for that arch Liberal Teddy Kennedy's seat in the Senate due to specifically stating that he would be the 41st vote against ObamaCare. Obama dawdled and blew it when he had a super majority in the Senate. Now he is desperate and will stop at nothing to ram a policy that even members of his own party down want down the throats of the America public. Marx and Engels would love Obama. The Founding Fathers would be mortified. The public is clearly against ObamaCare and his Machiavellian maneuvers in Congress will surely fail.

ca1ic0cat,

I had no idea when you quoted "if you tell a lie often enough people will begin to believe it is the truth" that you planned to practice it as a principle.

ca1ic0cat said:

Guys, you forgot that the dems caved to Liebermann and so they had their 60 votes

I did not forget anything. I remember you said "The democrats had a "fillibuster proof" 60 vote majority in the senate for a year and couldn't get anything done" and you were wrong. That is what I correctly pointed out and you can't admit it.

So go drink your own goddamn koolaid because you pissed in it good.

Blame the democratic leadership for not including enough republicans like Olympia Snow to get the 60 votes?

The Democratic leadership certainly has not excluded Republican moderates like Snowe. But Snowe, like Arlen Specter and Jim Jeffords before her, knows that there is a political price to pay if she is not joined by at least two or three of her colleagues in crossing the line.

In the health summit, the Republicans were not looking for any sort of compromise, but for capitulation. Victory for them would have been to get Obama to accept the Republican precondition of scrapping the year spent crafting the current bill. There was no way Obama was going to accept that, so as far as I am concerned, the Democrats came out big winners.

As for President Obama's victories, according to Congressional Quarterly, no president has achieved more legislative victories in the House on issues on which he's taken a position.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122436116

If the dems had put as much effort into crafting a well thought out bill instead of bickering amongst themselves and blaming the republicans for the dem's failures there might be a health care bill already.

There is a health care bill that the House has passed. The Republicans' strategy has been to stall as much as possible, by any means possible. And still Obama invites them to sit down and talk. It is now time for the Democrats to pass health care in the Senate by a majority vote.

And that will indicate leadership of the best kind.

What I saw yesterday was that the republicans would only say no. Instead of saying, 'hey we could go along with this if you'd change it like this or compromise like that', but the only thing the republicans could say was start all over.

The republicans are so against any change period that they wouldn't say they would compromise or make suggestions of consideration. Just no or start all over.

The republicans came with their talking points and nothing else. We all saw it. It's not like they came out of some secret meeting and the democrats said one thing and the republicans said something else about the meeting. So you have to believe one side or the other. But yesterday we watched the republicans. We saw and heard their responses. < :-)

Guys, you forgot that the dems caved to Liebermann and so they had their 60 votes - except that they couldn't get the other dems to agree. I guess getting the dems together is like herding cats. In other words, Obama can't get the job done.

To constantly blame the republicans for this is just idiocy. Kool-aid all around then. Blame Liebermann then? Blame the democratic leadership for not including enough republicans like Olympia Snow to get the 60 votes? Maybe you should try that instead of just repeating the mantra of "it's all the republican's fault."

What you have with the health care bill is something that is so far left of center and loaded with bribes and gimmies that it can't get the support of all the democrats. The democratic leadership has botched the job. The republicans have been cut out of the discussion. Can't very well blame somebody who wasn't even at the table.

Now that the dems can't get 60 votes - one lousy seat - and all of a sudden there is a "summit." And you guys are saying that the republicans have been blocking this? It would seem that the dems have realized that they can't get the job done.

Of course they are talking "resolution" now. But that is considered a terrible option because of the precident it would set.

As far as gitmo, cap-and-trade, Iran. Anybody want to post successes? No? I thought not.

Lame, lame, lame. It's just the same drivel over and over again. When are you guys going to come up with some original thinking? Oh, wait. You're part of the bunch that can't pass health care and is desperate to find somebody to blame. Silly me. My bad.

If the dems had put as much effort into crafting a well thought out bill instead of bickering amongst themselves and blaming the republicans for the dem's failures there might be a health care bill already. A complete lack of leadership if there ever was one. Makes Jimmy Carter look downright decisive.

ca1ic0cat writes two very interesting points that reveal the fundamental contradiction in the current hardline Republican point-of-view:

The first point is this one: "Getting a supreme court justice appointed with a 60 vote majority in the senate is a walk in the park." And the second: "I think that when you try to blame the republicans for saying NO when in fact they had no ability to stop any legislation either shows a complete lack of understanding of how the senate works ..."

The first point is essentially true, as long as no one in the majority party has a bone to pick with the nominee. This point also holds true with single-issue legislation like the jobs bill. Why? Because there is little or no opportunity by the minority party to try and jam amendments into the process that might garner the opposition of just a few majority members.

Regarding health care, there was never a 60-vote majority as long as Joe Lieberman said that he would not support a bill with certain provisions the vast majority of Democrats wanted. The same can be said of a few other senators.

zurconium writes: "The republicans cannot even vote for items that they say they support"

This is true. The deficit-reduction commission was something that the Republican leadership claimed to want. As soon as President Obama signalled his support they slithered away from it like slugs. Why? Because they knew they'd have to commit to what the commission recommended -- and Republicans are not about commitment, only opportunism and posturing.

zurcronium's comment was not up yet when I was writing my comment. Sorry for duplicating stuff.

I have the two independents listed as Bernie Sanders (VT) and Joe Lieberman (CT).

skipthesong -

no matter how trivial -- has to be passed with 60 votes." I don't get that. Why 60? why not 51?

Both houses are able to make their own rules on how they conduct matters. The Senate started with unlimited debate. Then in 1917, senators adopted a rule (Rule 22), at the urging of President Woodrow Wilson, that allowed the Senate to end a debate with a two-thirds majority vote, a device known as "cloture." In 1975, the Senate reduced the number of votes required for cloture from two-thirds to three-fifths, or 60 of the current one hundred senators.

So to answer skip's question of why 60 votes and not 51 votes: it is a U.S. Senate rule (Rule 22) to limit debate or to end never ending debate. It is 60 because they have reduced from 2/3 which was 66 or 67 (I don't know which was actually needed) to 3/5 which is exactly 60 votes.

ca1ic0cat, the Democrats never had a 60 vote majority as was explained earlier in this thread. Like you quoted "if you tell a lie often enough people will begin to believe it is the truth."

calicOcat,

what planet you on. Have you heard of Liberman or Nelson. What a joke your post is.

Fact is Obama tried to work with just say no republicans on a huge problem in the US society and what did he get from them in return, lies like death panels from that idiot Palin. Filibuster threats on every single bill.

The republicans only win in their little minds when Obama loses, this is the bible according ot Rush Drugs Limbuagh. The fact that 45,000 americans died in the last year the republicans were stalling and lying and doing nothing means nothing to them.

The republicans cannot even vote for items that they say they support, like helping seniors as they get older. Turned on dime on that one and voted against for what they wrote in the healthcare bill.

The republicans want to destroy the middle class and the country as a whole. As long as the super rich get by the republicans are happy.

Getting a supreme court justice appointed with a 60 vote majority in the senate is a walk in the park. But there is no cap-and-trade bill, no health bill, Gitmo is still open, Afghanistan is an escalating mess, Iran is still thumbing it's nose at the world, and NK isn't back to the six party talks. OK, getting NK to do anything reasonable is impossible but the Democrats OWNED the senate until the debacle over Kennedy's seat. They could have passed ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING the democrats could agree on. You can't blame the republicans. They could whine all they wanted but they could not change or stop any legislation that the democrats wanted to pass.

The fact that the dems left so much undone - especially Gitmo, where no vote was even needed - shows a total lack of leadership. I don't think the democrats could fight their way out of a paper bag.

Let me say it once more: with a 60 vote majority in the senate there was nothing the republicans could do to block any legislation. Nothing, nada, zip, none!

That the democrats STILL couldn't get anything serious done is probably what lost the Kennedy seat. Game over.

I think that when you try to blame the republicans for saying NO when in fact they had no ability to stop any legislation either shows a complete lack of understanding of how the senate works or is an example of Goebbel's dictum that "if you tell a lie often enough people will begin to believe it is the truth."

Go ahead guys, drink the kool-aid. Pathetic. Just pathetic. Obama is an empty suit.

republican health policy, dont get sick and if you do good luck. Die quickly so you do not run up massive bills. That is the republican strategy in a nutshell.

45,000 die a year due to lack of coverage, hey the republicans say if they are dead they cannot vote.

Better hope the demos prevail on this matter. Its clear to all that if the republicans get their way, things will get much worse for most Americans. Look what bush did to the economy during his years in office.

incorrect - 'republican Congress'

S/B - republican congressmen < :-)

"Handlers" B/S

He didn't need handlers or a teleprompter.

Obama outclassed the republicans all by himself. His patience with the Republicans, the "Party of NO", was exemplary as well as a teaching moment. Obama isn't going to dance to the republican congress.

The republicans kept running back to their notes and then Obama would correct them on their notes, and their little smiles of 'oops I got' caught' looks. The republican talking points were false.

The republican facts are akin to Palin's "DEATH PANELS". Just B/S. < :-)

Damn where did Obama hide the teleprompter yesterday?

You can't blame Obama for this -he has bad "handlers." There is a very large Handler shortage right now. Some say his wife stole all the good Handlers.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=105957 =Michelle Obama has 22 Handlers (assistants).

Damn where did Obama hide the teleprompter yesterday? So many facts and information and Obama didn't even have notes written on his palm.

Obama sat there yesterday and dealt with the republicans who read their pseudo facts from pages and pages of data and their bottom line was "NO" all along. And except for his notes that he took when the republicans spoke, Obama's words were fresh, not pre-written for the event. < :-)

sailwind

Guess that was why Scott Brown was elected, less than one year later.

Brown is being screamed at by republicans because he held with his promise to vote for the people, not for the party, when he voted for the Jobs Bill.

I didn't want Brown to win, but so far he's kept his promise.

I'm hoping that the democrats push this through by reconciliation. < :-)

There was no leadership by Obama to push for an agreed to democratic bill.

You can lead all you want. But when you've got such an awful, angry, discredited, little party whose members decide to prevent measures they don't like from ever getting a vote in the Senate, there is often little that can be done, except start to the break down the legislation and start to put it up to a vote piecemeal. (As with the jobs bill.)

The Republicans have played their little filibuster game very well, but they won't be able to fool all of the American people. Their only chance at further success will come if a solid majority of Americans ever comes to hate their government and their president as much as these Republicans want them to.

The democrats had a "fillibuster proof" 60 vote majority in the senate for a year and couldn't get anything done.

One short sentence with two glaring falsehoods.

First of all, President Obama has gotten a lot done, especially with regards to the environment and financial regulation. He chose what appears to be a first-rate Supreme Court justice.

Secondly, the "60-vote" majority included an independent Joe Lieberman (who often votes with Republicans) and two extremely ill senators (Byrd and the late Ted Kennedy) who have to be present for cloture votes.

Remember that all this touting of a "filibuster-proof majority" comes at the hands of people supporting a party that was whining about wanting to get simple "up-down" majority votes when their party was in power. (And the Democrats never used the filibuster to the extent that the Republicans have come to use it now.

.... does anything to further the debate you are far wrong. I've lost all respect for you.

Blatant falsehoods do nothing to further the debate. I am under the assumption that those who constantly write falsehoods are either of a perverse nature or do not have the mental capacity to discern the truth. And so, looking once again at the tags, I'm startled at how well they apply.

It's incredible that a full 25% into Obama's first term, he is still having to deal with clearing up the moral, economic and environmental carnage left behind by the GOP. And now the fail-at-all-costs Republicans are going full tilt to derail healthcare reform. But at least diehard conservatives can rest easy that the GOP is just like them: void of ideas and champions of failure. Way to go conservaGOPs.

The democrats had a "fillibuster proof" 60 vote majority in the senate for a year and couldn't get anything done. There was no leadership by Obama to push for an agreed to democratic bill. They couldn't even get their own party to work together. That is truly pathetic. So yabits' constant whining that the republicans are blocking Obamacare is a red herring.

By the way yabits, maybe the mods don't understand that "teabagging" means putting one's testicles on another's face but a lot of the rest of us do. If you think that epithets like "knuckledraggers" and "teabaggers" does anything to further the debate you are far wrong. I've lost all respect for you.

Guess that was why Scott Brown was elected, less than one year later.

There is no doubt that the Republican knuckle-draggers have been energized by their fellow teabaggers.

Glad to see Brown cross over party lines and vote with the Democrats on the jobs bill, breaking yet another Republican filibuster. If Brown keeps doing that, it won't be long before the "RINO" epithet will be dragged out by the hard-core right wing.

Everyone knows that Massachusetts is a fairly liberal state, and Brown does have to bend somewhat to the wishes of the majority of his constituents and not just those with the scraped knuckles.

Much to their disgrace and discredit, all they want to do is lie and stop all progress of the agenda of the party elected by a sweeping majority in November of '08.

Guess that was why Scott Brown was elected, less than one year later.

Obama doesn't care what anyone thinks or what anyone else wants. He wants what he wants and if you don't like it, tough.

Most readers will see right through this falsehood.

Ultimately, however, it's the leader's job to lead. Health care needs to be reformed, and the Republicans have been given plenty of chances to have input. Much to their disgrace and discredit, all they want to do is lie and stop all progress of the agenda of the party elected by a sweeping majority in November of '08.

no matter how trivial -- has to be passed with 60 votes." I don't get that. Why 60? why not 51?

You need to educate yourself to the current Republican tactic that many are calling the "permanent filibuster."

All that has to happen is for one member of the minority party to signal that they are planning to place a hold on the legislation and suddenly 60 votes are now necessary to break the hold and bring the legislation up for a vote. Keep in mind that the whole purpose of a filibuster is to prevent a vote on legislation, and there are many ways to filibuster (or block).

While there is not an exact 1:1 ratio between "cloture" -- the 60-vote majority needed to affect certain procedures -- and filibuster, the massive increase in cloture voting that occurred in the 110th Congress is directly indicative of the Republicans attempting to grind the wheels of government to a halt.

Read and heed,

Start from here folks,

My opinion.

http://www.smartmoney.com/Investing/Economy/How-Much-Could-Health-Care-Reform-Save-You/

no matter how trivial -- has to be passed with 60 votes." I don't get that. Why 60? why not 51?

The Democrats control the white house, and both houses of congress. Why don't they just pass the legislation they want to? They don't need the Republicans approval for anything.

It's embarrassing to see such ignorance on open display. In ordinary times, a party only needs a basic majority to pass legislation. Because of the Republicans' unprecendented use of the filibuster, nearly everything -- no matter how trivial -- has to be passed with 60 votes.

Republicans are fighting the democrats to protect the insurance companies and they're profits." c'mpon aday, you are being way too immature. Have you taken a look at who actually has monetary interests in the insurance sector? Besides, why are you avoiding the point about handing the insurance sector business on a silver plater? What about the dems who on not down with this? What about those who had to be "bribed"?

Can you promise, with a straight face that what I'm paying now will go down? even a little bit?

Sushi, you can not tell me you actually believed it was to bring the two worthless parties together do you?

the GOP has already crippled the U.S. economy under GWB." Alright, fix it already! Why do you use GWB as a bench mark?

RR, if you think the goal of the summit was to 'win,' rather than to have the 2 parties come to an agreement on workable healthcare solutions, I really pity you.

But your attitude is clearly an in-synch mind meld with the current GOP mindset: 'win' by blocking any and all progress in Congress and subsequently cripple the U.S. economy. Sorry, I'll correct myself - the GOP has already crippled the U.S. economy under GWB.

Considering only 25 percent of Americans want the dems to pass their version of Obamacare, it'll be interesting to see how many democrats will be willing to fall on the sword to pass this bill.

Bah-Humbug. On FOXNews only 25% want this bill.

Companies dropping health care insurance because they can't afford a 40% increase in rates. Then it gets dropped down to the individuals to buy their own. They can't afford the costs that insurance companies want.

Republicans are fighting the democrats to protect the insurance companies and they're profits.

39% increases in rates, after years of continuous rate increases. Profits...profits....profits. < :-)

Obama doesn't care what anyone thinks or what anyone else wants. " Well, that's true.

it'll be interesting to see how many democrats will be willing to fall on the sword to pass this bill." And that is why I'm concerned. It seems they just want to pass it like a Kamikaze. I don't know of anyone, other than my sister, who is down with this. In fact, just barely over half the dems are for this.

In the final 5 minutes of the summit, Obama stated if the republicans can't agree with Obamacare, the dems will have to move forward alone. In other words, Obama doesn't care what anyone thinks or what anyone else wants. He wants what he wants and if you don't like it, tough.

Considering only 25 percent of Americans want the dems to pass their version of Obamacare, it'll be interesting to see how many democrats will be willing to fall on the sword to pass this bill.

Stay tuned

No RR, they came in on the defensive. You are right though, the dems and O did not really address the costs.

The republicans won the summit because they came with concrete, practical ideas; whereas, as usual, Obama and the democrats were big on words and tear jerking anecdotes but could not address the main issues which were cost, cost and cost.

dintokyo: pretty horrific incident. But I think you are missing the point. Even what the dems are putting out there will in no way resemble Canada's care. And, what most people in the US who are against this, if the mere fact of the government controlling it. They, like me, don't want the gov involved. I worked for the gov and I've done biz with the gov and I have a hard time trusting what they can do and the most important point is that there is no clear cut explanation as to the costs coming down. Obama says it will, but there are others, including Dems, who say it won't. Who to believe? I believe no politician. Besides, the main push is the insurance for those who don't have it.

Who should have been there, but was not was one guy I really like and that is Dennis Kucinich. He's the only one who is sticking to his guns. I don't like what he wants in particular, but he is one who should be respected. And he, last I heard, was not willing to vote on the Obama plan.

I thought it was rather funny myself. < :-)

Barack Obama slapped John McCain down when he wanted to play politics." that was funny...

That was the high point of the day.

Barack Obama slapped John McCain down when he wanted to play politics. Great television. < :-)

The GOP's performance at this healthcare forum made it pretty clear that The Polital Party of 'No' has actually stopped functioning.

The GOP is now a party that does not do anything constructive, has a near total vacuum of new, creative ideas, and has only 1 solitary goal: to say 'no' to and block every Democratic party initiatives they possibly can.

And yet there are certain posters on this board who look up to and worship this failed excuse for a political organization.

That says pretty much everything IMO

We’re not campaigning anymore. The election’s over

Heh, if the election is over, why is Obama still campaigning?

Let me tell you a story... Briefly as possible!

I was working the first day at a job. NightClub. I was newly married, in a new town and unemployed. Married to a JP Woman who was waiting for her work visa to be approved.

So, I had to take whatever came. I was working security. Strange night of work and decided it was the last at this particular club. Close to the end of the evening I was asked to check the sidewalk for beer bottles and ask anyone being loud to be quiet. A bit later I was approached by 3 young men. None of whom looked threatening (mistake). After a brief conversation about the club's hours and when we were open again I was, without provication (honestly), hit in the side of my head with a hammer. I was hit a few more times in different parts of my body. I did fight back and managed to take the hammer from that particular individual. I was knocked to the ground from behind and my hand holding the hammer was repeated stomped on, but I would not give up the hammer knowing it had prints on it. I then had a beer bottle broken over my head and then my forehead "Carved" up with the broken beer bottle. Say what you will for me being in a situation, alone, to let this happen...

I had to go to emergency. I had to go to a different hospital because the damage from the hammer to my head was too extensive for the nearest hospital to deal with. I was bleeding profusely from my left eye, nose and felt like I was drowning in blood. My left hand was a big mashed mess and too many bruises on my body to count. I had to have reconstruction surgery on my left eye socket, my left hand needed a fair mount of work and was put into traction and was expected to have an uncertain amount (at the time) of brain damage. It was the day before my first wedding anniversary... I was in the hospital for about a week, suffering from PTSD and more jumpy than a Tokyo Street Cat caught in a dog park! :P

I was out of work for 18 months, had to have more surgery to remove 3 plates from my face, a tube inserted into my left tear duct and a certain amount of councilling for my PTSD. I should point out that I was in the waiting period for unemployment bennifits and took an "under the table job" to help pay the rent.

If I was in the U.S., what do you think would have happened to me? (I should point out that nobody ever got charged as I have a lot blank spots about faces, etc...) Fortunately I was in Canada and was covered by a National Health Insurance Policy that I paid a small amount of cash for every month...

What is my point? If I gotta explain that, then you got more brain damage than I do... Cheers and keep you stick on the ICE!! (^_-)v-~

Gombei424Canada, if anyone NEEDS to win a prize for sarcasm, it has to be you. :-)

Probably one of the biggest problems with the GOP at the moment - besides being the biggest spending most short-sighted anti-American political structure in history, is that they and their conservative supporters are simply not man enough to own up to the fact that under their beloved GWB, U.S. federal debt rocketed up by a mind-numbing $6 trillion.

This incredible ramping up of debt has caused a whole host of problems - from debt servicing costs coming in at a cool $200 billion a year, the weak dollar lowering real estate costs in the country allowing for big buyouts by foreign companies - and of course - the little problem of there being no money to fund universal healthcare.

If the GOP/Conservatives want a clue as to who is largely to blame for this - they need to quit mindlessly blaming President Obama and the Democrats and look in the mirror.

That's where the real problem is.

And it gets worse. The Political Party Of 'No' showed why they have this name yesterday when 3.9 million Americans tuned in to watch the GOP say 'no' to pretty much every half-decent proposal the President and his team put forward.

Watching posters like RomeoRamen and Sarge laying into Obama illustrates beyond a shadow of doubt just how deluded conservatives have become - and just how much they are drowning in a fetid ocean of twisted propaganda spewing out of the gullets of idiot rightwing talkshow hosts like Rush Limpbough and Sean Hannity.

It's beyond time for the GOP/conservatives to actually start doing something positive for the nation they - falsely - claim to love.

sushisake:"Oh, and yes - as usual - the massive global recession that began in December 2007 under George W. Bush and that triggered this economic meltdown is all President Obama's fault."

Bingo!Another incredble post from you my friend,and one that Ramen won7t have a chance in Hades to reply to.Too funny! Like you I have always intuitively known that the global recession is bush's fault, and his alone! And like you I know only President Barack Obama can save the world.It HAS to start with healthcare for all! After that, well, maybe a moratorium on ALL mortgage foreclosures.And after that, well, free legal representation for all would go a LONG way to helping millions of Americans who can7t afford a good lawyer.

And if the repubs obstruct?Well, the Obama administration needs to get even harsher and more frequent with the portrayal of them as TERRORISTS. 　

RomeoRamenI - "Obama was .....relentlessly adhering to policies that are sending America careening down hill on a short-bus to economic collapse."

LOL! Only 8 years too late. :-)

Comments like this are so sad, they're hilarious.

Romeo - Which U.S. political party racked up more debt than any government in history?

That's right - the bush jnr-led GOP. The party YOU voted for.

The $6 Trillion in debt racked up under the bush jnr GOP is a core reason why there's little money left in the kitty to fund universal healthcare for all Americans, an apprently quaint little notion that's not really since most nations in the developed world have it.

Except America.

Oh, and yes - as usual - the massive global recession that began in December 2007 under George W. Bush and that triggered this economic meltdown is all President Obama's fault. 　

Humor like this is just perfect for a Friday evening. :-)

Well, my friends, once again it is too funny watching the few supporters of the republican party try and defend the party of No! and their filibustering on this issue, which is hopeless,and disgusting!

Their racism was on display for all to see,and the hate and the bias was all over the place, although I can7t give a specific example.

Obama was magnificent as usual, and I took the day off so I could immediately rip the YouTube version of his smackdown of the rethugs to my i-pod, where it will join continuous play of ALL his best speeches,which are still fabulous,even after 20 or 30 listenings.

Oh and to the haters let me say that Obama is NOT done.Far from it!His approval ratings are still sky high,especially with my students (not JUST the private students either) and the US economy is picking up,thanks to Obama's incredible foresight in economics,which will earn him ANOTHER Nobel Prize if the trend continues and health care is finally made available to the thousands of Americans who lose a home or a beachfront condo EVERY day,because they are diabetic but unable to pay the 14,000 dollars for leg amputations to doctors who, as Barack explained,LET them get to the point where amputation is the only option.Disgusting! Well,anyways, it won't be long now until America has health care for all and the whole country reelects the Democratic Party in November,which will be ANOTHER shellacking.Said shellacking will be even worse than November 4 2008,which truly was one of the happiest days of my life in Japan.

when this finally takes off, about ten years from now, but we'll start paying for it soon of course, I wonder who will be in office to kind of pop the the cork on its launch........

If the Democrats ram this debacle through, they will own it.

Obama was on the wrong side of every issue at the summit; relentlessly adhering to policies that are sending America careening down hill on a short-bus to economic collapse.

So maniacally and rabidly clutching to his über-liberal agenda that he refuses to accept or acknowledge the will of the people as expressed in poll after poll and the biggest polls of all: the votes in New Jersey, Virginia and Massachusetts.

When the MSM doesn’t hold him to task for his failures it only serves to embolden his imagined stoic pretentiousness.

This was pretty interesting to watch, albeit long.

The current president has more smarts than the entire GOP.

That's not a bad thing. :-)

Everton - "Man, I thought America had the best health care system in the world, at least that's what all the Republican senators are saying."

Yep, that was right up there with the GOP senators saying they have a credible alternative for healthcare reform, lol!

Man, I thought America had the best health care system in the world, at least that's what all the Republican senators are saying. Maybe they are just looking at it through the prism of their own senatorial perks, which provide an excessively generous cover, but what about the rest. Ho! forget about the rest, they are just lazy thats why they can't afford health care.

Met:

"Mitt Romney's state is another one with successful Universal healthcare". Ok, you're hitting man. but, not being a resident there, try to use your insurance there? And this is a great point: let it be run at the state.

Once we pass a national insurance, are they states going to change their tax structures? Then you got states that are going to pay little in but get a lot out. last time I checked, I work for me not for someone who is not. If you are poor, you got welfare, if you are un-employed that's an area we need to work on. But if you are like me and mid class, you want me to be happy about paying more and getting less and all for the benefit of others?

I also think you are missing quite a number of points. I would not mind having a national health care if it was proven to be better and cheaper. After being in the medical field in the Army and then working for VA for a bit (you guys ever wonder why you got motrine for almost everything?), but I can't find myself believing is going to be better and this repub and dem thing: what happens

Almost every other developed country has state-run healthcare, but America still stuck in the 19th century. No surprises there.

State-run is not perfect, but neither is private. However, State-run is a darn site better than having someone lose their freakin' house to pay for some medicine. FFS.

Obama's dithering is killing the US economy. Three times in one year he and his party have threatened massive overhaul of the health care system, which accounts for about 1/15th of the economy in the US. If you have ever owned a business you can imagine how this affects your forecasts, not to mention hiring. I have friends and acquaintances in the States who say it is the first time in their careers they are unable to forecast more than four weeks ahead. Simply amazing!

At the end of the day I'm very proud of Obama's performance at the summit. He was knowledgeable, articulate, gave room for compromise and at the end gave a this, that or else. Obama's calling the shots on this one. Republicans can either try to work with Obama or play the obstructionists role. Their choice. < :-)

Yeah, deadline. Obama held back and hadn't told Pelosi and Reed, push it through. Matter of fact I recall Obama telling Pelosi specifically not to push it through. He wanted to try to work with republicans. They seem to refuse.

Six weeks. Health care reform is going through with or without republican support by reconciliation. < :-)

That is why he gave them a deadline to bring something to the table or we will move on without them.

Deadline? It's what - - the third 'deadline' this year? Threats, deadlines, ultimatums, tantrums...

President Obama has the votes.

His party controls House and Senate.

Play Glenn Beck for us, metaphile. Get in touch with your inner Limbaugh.

Why can't Obama deliver?

Where are your answers to my healthcare examples. Has Mitt Romney failed, was Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh lying about healthcare?

Glenn Beck does not hold office or write policy. Nor does Rush Limbaugh. But I understand - free speech terrifies and infuriates you, as it does so many of Obama's blindly partisan followers.

Romney? That he could get himself elected in a state so hostile to conservatives seems to me a refutation of the talking point (more like a shouting point) that Republicans have no plan...

The cost of health care effects other areas of the country. Remember all those companies that went bankrupt this year. Guess who pays their health care? You got it the tax payer. Company goes upside down and the tax payer picks up that cost.

http://www.healthcareforallcolorado.org/index.php?p=2&ID=268&d=1

Individuals and companies are facing the highest cost increases in decades. From 32% to 52% increases in one year. And the system doesn't need extreme reform? Companies can't afford to buy insurance and neither can employees. But the republicans are protecting insurance like I can't believe. You see where their loyalty lays. < :-)

http://www.healthplanone.com/articles/article_bankruptinganation.aspx

From the Wall Street Journal:

A) Public funds accounted for 47% of the $2.34 trillion of national health spending in 2008, the last year for which figures are available.

B) For the first time, government programs next year will account for more than half of all U.S. health-care spending, federal actuaries predict, as the weak economy sends more people into Medicaid and slows growth of private insurance.

C) By 2020, according to the new projections, about one in five dollars spent in the U.S. will go to health care, a proportion far beyond any other industrialized nation.

D) Government spending on health care in the U.S. is estimated to have accounted for 8.4% of GDP in 2009. That is nearly equal to total health spending—public and private—in some European countries such as Britain and Italy, according to Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development data.

Says it all.

David Gergen is a republican pundit. Of course he's not giving Obama props. He's beefing up the story for his followers. You'll have to do better than that.

David Gergen.... right. < :-)

Odogma,

Isn't that the sort of 'biased' and 'hateful' reporting 'Faux News' would stoop to???

Where are your answers to my healthcare examples. Has Mitt Romney failed, was Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh lying about healthcare?

Your views about the healthcare debate doesn't seem to be steeped in reality.

It seems like I and adaydream are Obama and you and RomeoRamen are the Republicans at the summit.

Obama - real world facts and examples in the healthcare bill

Republicans - no answers just disagreement and excuses

CNN’s DAVID GERGEN: "The folks in the White House just must be kicking themselves right now. They thought that coming out of Baltimore when the President went in and was mesmerizing and commanding in front of the House Republicans that he could do that again here today. That would revive health care and would change the public opinion about their health care bill and they can go on to victory. Just the opposite has happened." (CNN’s "Live," 2/25/10)

Isn't that the sort of 'biased' and 'hateful' reporting 'Faux News' would stoop to???

RomeoRamen,

The affirmative action president came off like a spolied, petulant little brat that was upset because he wasn't getting his way.

Another excuse to justify for your own inadequacies. He became President because of Affirmtative Action not because the previous President ruined our country, took away most of Freedoms given to us by the constituion and lied to the entire World.

You must have seen the summit through Ramen bowl because the rest of the real world saw the Republicans....PAWNED! LOL

GOP party of NO

No answers No help No sense

We're going to see what the republicans got. They got 6 weeks to do nothing and continue to say no or come up with compromises real suggestions.

Republican facts. Please. Republican fuzzy math.

Obama gave examples of and spoke of places where there should be areas of compromise and republicans onlyu said no. Excuse me they also said consistently, "scrap this plan and start all over." Translation: "NO!!" < :-)

Odogma,

I will address this to a much wider audience than merely trying to reply to someone like metaphile, who just plain refuses to face facts, not unlike the party he supports...

Real nice excuse to ignore my last three posts about real examples of Universal healthcare success by some of your favorite celebrities.(Romney,Beck and Limbaugh) Address a wider audience....yeah right. Who needs facts when we are talking about the real word?(sarcasm)

Had Obama won this last ditch attempt CNN and the other organs of what has become almost state-controlled media would be broadcasting news of the victory.

But they aren't.

I just checked Slate, where many of the American progressives I know go for their received 'wisdom.'

" GOP 1, Obama 1, Democrats 0. Obama and Republicans seemed reasonable. That's bad news for Democrats. "

Democrats and Obama had a plan and offered to compromise and the republicans repeatedly said, "NO!!"

Pure nonsense. For those of us who actually watched the summit saw poor wittle Obama and his buddies get their asses whipped today. The affirmative action president came off like a spolied, petulant little brat that was upset because he wasn't getting his way.

Republicans brought facts and tried to discuss the bill and their own ideas. Obama and the democrats brought sob stories and tried to avoid facts and especially avoid the actual bill they brought forth.

The republicans owned Obama and the democrats.

I will address this to a much wider audience than merely trying to reply to someone like metaphile, who just plain refuses to face facts, not unlike the party he supports...

Type in "Hawaii universal health care children" and an internet search (I used google) will provide article after article which report the experiment was a disaster, and was terminated, after 7 months.

Odogma,

Sense we are talking about examples then here is another one.

Rush Limbaugh had to go to a Hawaii hospital (where they have socialized medicine) and he came back talking about how they didn't ask to see his insurance card or anything when he entered and how people actually cared about him. When he found out that this was all due to "socialism," he instantly stopped talking about how wonderful it was and went back to brainwashing the masses that socialized medicine will "destroy America."

You must get your news from strictly partisan sources. Recently faced with heart surgery, the Premier of Newfoundland, Danny Williams, chose the US over Canada.I have seen his story for weeks now, on any number of websites.

Odogma

What does that prove? You are talking about one persons impressions of another country. Or where one of the best doctors are located. It says nothing about whether the healthcare system is better or not.

Example:

I see Glenn Beck always tout US has the best "Healthcare in the World." I also have video of him complaining that the healthcare is horrible. He went to the same hospital that the President of GE went to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVU1qvMqk3g

Your reasoning makes no sense! Try again!

I especially like the conclusion where Obama went over a list of items and gave the republicans a list to work on. Come back with in 6 weeks, more or less, with real suggestions or he's asking the House and Senate to push this through by reconciliation. Good ending. < :-)

Oops, I meant Odogma.

You are simply lying. Hawaii has had it for 40 years not a few. It is still in place. Try again! Next you will be talking about Pres. Obama not being born in Hawaii.

Get your misinformation together! Oops, I meant Odogma.

Massachusetts has something akin to universal health care, and citizens of that state pay the 2nd highest rates in America.

You also fail to mention the majority in that State are quite happy with their healthcare. You also failed to mention they don't suffer form the current problems plaguing most State governments as well as Americans. With government option those prices will be reduced and they will still have the same great quality. It seems like a win-win!

Massachusetts Healthcare facts that Odogma is not mentioning:

How is it being paid for?

Much of the cost is supposed to come from expected reductions in payments for charity care. In other words, the state hopes that by paying less to reimburse hospitals and doctors for treating people who are uninsured or underinsured, it will help more people get insurance. The state also has federal funds, but those run out in June 2008, and the state would have to negotiate an extension.

Small businesses and self-employed

One of the successes of the program has been getting insurance companies to merge their small-group plans with individual plans. This has opened up affordable insurance to the self-employed and employees of small businesses, lowering their premiums and increasing the amount of care covered by insurance.

New plans extend group coverage to businesses with 50 or fewer employees. Plans can be bought with pre-tax dollars.

What doesn’t the plan do?

It doesn't reduce the role of insurance companies. It's not a single-payer, government-run plan, like the Canadian system.

Neither does it do much to hold down the cost of health care. The state isn't using its leverage as a buyer or as a regulator to hold down costs. It just requires everyone to sign up with the insurance companies.

Who gets the credit or blame?

In 2004, with the costs of covering the uninsured increasing and the federal government threatening to withhold $385 million a year of Medicaid funds unless the state reduced the number of uninsured, proposals came not only from Romney but also from Democrats in the state Legislature and a coalition of health care activists.

While the final plan was based on Romney's proposal, several of its features were approved by legislators over his veto, including the fee on employers who don't offer coverage and the expansion of Medicaid coverage to more children.

With former Gov. Mitt Romney seeking the Republican nomination for president in 2008, his supporters are quick to give him credit for the Massachusetts plan.

You don't see Mitt Romney talking about Healthcare because if he says it doesn't work then it is an example of his own failure. If says it does work then it goes against the "Party of NO" for no reason platform.

The say No because it doesn't benefit them.

They are now on record believe that Americans are too stupid to run our own lives. We are too stupid to have freedom, we are stupid for even wanting freedom.

Reminds me of how former Reagan (or Bush sr?) speech writer Peggy Noonan (sp?) wrote that Obama, in his January State of the Union Speech, has sort of painted himself into a corner. He campaigned telling his country that government was broken, Washington needs a change. One year in office and he is still saying the same thing. But the solution is - - ???

more government!

No wonder there are 'tea parties' breaking out all over.

Mr. McCain's question was outstanding. Obama couldn't give a creative or slippery answer as to why the vote bribes were not unfair. Obama's response?: "I won, I won, I won so shut up and stop blocking my greatness."

Too funny.

I loved the televised summit today. Democrats and Obama had a plan and offered to compromise and the republicans repeatedly said, "NO!!"

Classic television. < :-)

Obama and his liberal ilk showed their true colors today. They are now on record believe that Americans are too stupid to run our own lives. We are too stupid to have freedom, we are stupid for even wanting freedom. They believe we should all see the "wisdom" of giving up all of our freedom and just letting them make all the choices for us.

Classic television.

Metaphile Do you make over the $250,000 to qualify?" I'm going to give you a simple yes... but not in salary. My wife alone makes close to that here.

Did you actually plan on hiring full-time employees?" I have several business, one doing good, the others bad. I have 19 and I have 2 here, who are American, trying to work the same biz here... recently 50% of my biz is selling products to..... the med industry after 9-11, it was all I sold. We are not doing good in Japan, and that's hurting me. Notice how much time I have to be here?

Most of the time small businesses don't plan expanding that much or hire full-time workers because they don't want the hassle involved." no, and this is where some problems are, It usually don't involve not having the money but it is just too much extra work." depends where you are - my main biz is in Ill.. it wasn't a hassle and its not really that expensive either; I worked for me that I offered it.

Even Joe Da Plumber cannot fix this health control plan. Sorta like how Obama's birth certificate could not be fixed. Joe would probably say flush it.

People in Canada love their health care.

You must get your news from strictly partisan sources. Recently faced with heart surgery, the Premier of Newfoundland, Danny Williams, chose the US over Canada.I have seen his story for weeks now, on any number of websites.

I don't know how Canadians feel about their health care. But in discussions I have with other expatriates in Japan on this topic I get the strong impression that misery loves company, and quite a few British and Canadians want Americans to 'enjoy' the same crap medical care they get...

Vulcan,

You are simply lying. Hawaii has had it for 40 years not a few. It is still in place. Try again! Next you will be talking about Pres. Obama not being born in Hawaii.

Get your misinformation together!

metaphile.. the recent elections and the ones coming up this fall will show what the people think of Obama

Vulcan,

Ok........Unless you have the results to those polls now then it means nothing and your simply jumping to conclusions. The same thing happened during the Bush and clinton years. It is a natural process. You sound like a Birther and the coming of the Apocalypse.

It would get rid of all this tort. " No. It was taken out!

Skipthesong,

With more preventive medicine it means that people will need not to go to the insurance company for major ilnesses because they would be stopped or be maintained more reasonable means. Now people only go when it is too late to see the doctor which why costs for treatment are so high. Not to mention the need for most of the drugs will be unnecessary which are never aimed at curing the Patient. Which means drug companies and insurance companies will be less at odds with their customers and the governement. Less pressure to put new products on the market too quickly and to force companies to provide better medicines. This actually forces the insurance companies to become better because they will be competing with the government. Isnt't that capitalism?

Just putting tort reform in their with nothing to motivate the companies to do right by the by the people is crazy. We already know that most companies are acting unethical even when they have an advantageous situation. Tort reform just gives the companies a better advantage. Why not become better companies and law suits will be baseless and thrown out of court. The reason tort is so powerful because the companies have been shown to be at fault many times. It is like make the criminals the jailers.

Mitt Romney's state is another one with successful Universal healthcare. It was because of the deceased Kennedy who pushed to provide to all within his State. How many in that State are employed by the military? A lot less than 45%. You don't hear Mitt Romney talking about healthcare do you? That is because it is similar to what was being proposed. So once again,they should have it but not everyone else.

And should this health care plan pass, a small biz like mine is going to get hit hard.

Skipthesong,

Do you make over the $250,000 to qualify? Did you actually plan on hiring full-time employees? Most of the time small businesses don't plan expanding that much or hire full-time workers because they don't want the hassle involved. It usually don't involve not having the money but it is just too much extra work.

Like I said, most of the proponents of these bills are people this will never apply to but somehow use the same excuses as the ones learned by shows like Faux news. The same people who will be get a tax break like "Joe the Plumber". Do you think those folks who is saying it is based on principle will be turning down the tax breaks given to them by the President. I think not. Do you think most of those small businesses was really planning on trying to provide healthcare to it's employees without the government's assistance. I think not. It makes you wonder what their disagreement is really about.

Are you following what's happening at the state level?

I see a President who actually trying do the things he promised. I see a President trying to make things better for all peoples in the country. I also see a party that is opposed to all these things the President is trying to pass based mostly on the fact they don't want him to succeed. Not because it is bad for the people but because it doesn't benefit them.

People in Canada love their health care.

People in Canada get our drugs at 1/2 the price. Not old drugs, not obsolete drugs; the same drugs we are getting here. And selling them to Canada and other countries at lower prices only makes their drugs more competitive with other drugs made in other countries. So Canada get's the competitive price and the US gets gouged.

Americans buying drugs from Canada get good drugs. You have to get a reputable pharmacy. No different then going over into Mexico. Good drugs at reduced costs.

Remember the prescription drug plan was a republican pushed through package. They sure kept an eye on seniors. B/S < :-)

People in Canada and other countries

such as...?

get the same medicine we get from the same companies for half or less the price we pay because of socialized healthcare. It is more expensive in the US where these companies are located.

In the overwhelming majority of cases the medicine was invented in the USA. American companies, utilising the supposedly obscene profits they get, brought the product to market - - in some cases at costs measured in hundreds of millions of dollars US.In other words, seniors in America are often re-importing, after patent expiration, drugs American companies created.This is one reason why so many conservative and libertarian commentators on this issue point out the irony in the oft-parroted claim progressives like to imagine ends this argument: "America is the only advanced nation without universal health care!"

Yes, well, it is American medical science and technology and the American business model that so often put the 'advanced' in your nation and its health care.

More Democrats need to understand that fact.

In these few States like Hawaii it is proof Universal Healthcare works.

Hawaii initiated universal health care for children a few years ago. It was a disaster. They cancelled the program. Massachusetts has something akin to universal health care, and citizens of that state pay the 2nd highest rates in America.

You know the older you get the more health insurance means to you. I try to pay close attention to this stuff. To both sides. < :-)

aday... you are making me very afraid of getting old.

Then you failed to watch a portion of it then. I missed a few minutes, but I saw that.

That was another time that the republicans said, 'we again say we need to start all over'. Translation: "NO". < :-)

Didn't I hear somewhere today that small businesses could get together and form a co-op or exchange where you could get with other small busibesses and individuals to get lower premiums similar to larger companies that have bargaining powers?" Not yet and that is not what is being proposed.

If we are forced to provde health care, that care should be reduced in price greatly.

I really enjoyed watching the health care summit today" You've got to be kidding me. I believe you had the sound on mute and you just salivated over Obama. Come on, he was half asleep by the time I caught it.

Didn't I hear somewhere today that small businesses could get together and form a co-op or exchange where you could get with other small busibesses and individuals to get lower premiums similar to larger companies that have bargaining powers? < :-)

I really enjoyed watching the health care summit today. I saw the democrats giving suggestions and reasons for the package and the republicans saying no.

It did show the nation exactly how the republicans repeatedly had nothing except to say no.

BTW, I think Obama did pretty good with out a teleprompter. Most of the congressmen, both sides read from their papers word for word. Obama read from notes he had taken during the summit and from his heart. No teleprompter, wow. < :-)

GD: don't they have a repub or two that voted with them?

Meta: "People in Canada and other countries, get the same medicine we get from the same companies for half or less the price we pay because of socialized healthcare. It is more expensive in the US where these companies are located." And in that bill that is being proposed, they will be able to charge even higher. Why is it more expensive in the US? Because of the costs of running it through the FDA, state sales taxes, and fighting litigation against claims. The countries you mention DON'T have this problem. And the bill that is being proposed does nothing to help that.

The reason Hawaii can go on such a plan may be the fact that something like 45% of the population is employed by the gov, the US military, and a great deal are on P.A.

It would get rid of all this tort. " No. It was taken out!

Insurance companies won't have so many payouts." one of the leading causes of them charging what they charge.

They would need to pay so much for lobbyist." Ok, now you hit it! Hillary Clinton has been the highest recipient the health care lobby. As being in a medical field ffor the Army, part of the job was inventory and request purchases. We were only allowed to order from two companies. If you want only one or two companies benefitting from this, then our argument is over.

All the insurance dropping you when sick." Again, the media and many of you keep leaving the state regulations out of the picture. Take a look at which companies are more notorious for dropping such people and you will be surprised what state they are servicing and then read those regs.

President Obama's plan provided 95% of the poplulation with tax breaks." Plan man, plan! Are you following what's happening at the state level?

And should this health care plan pass, a small biz like mine is going to get hit hard. The same ones that own small businesses. Or are you talking about the "Joe Plumber imagination scenerio"?" man, I said nothing about the plumber guy.

I would have a small business if I actually had money to get a small business." You don't need money to start it, you need money to run it.

So I will be mad at Obama because in my imagination situation it would be challenging." Oh come on.

metaphile.. the recent elections and the ones coming up this fall will show what the people think of Obama.

Failed Democracy. Representatives arent doing the job they were voted to do. Nation wide vote required and then the Politicians will have no choice but to do what they are told. Thats democracy. "People shouldnt be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people." This isnt just an American issue either.

skipthesong -

I don't get it, he doesn't need the repubs to pass it. What is the hold up?

MrUSA -

The Democrats control the white house, and both houses of congress. Why don't they just pass the legislation they want to? They don't need the Republicans approval for anything.

The U.S. Senate has passed a bill. The House could try to pass that bill unchanged. But otherwise they need at least one Republican to vote against a filibuster. Those votes are called "cloture votes." In other words the Democrats need 60 votes in the Senate to pass anything that the Republicans reject.

There is just too much money to be made off Americans . 13th worst health care and the most expensive . all these elected officials who stall and get paid while doing nothing should be fired . while enjoying the finest health care plans and perks galore . vote the ba*tards out should ring again throughout the land . big business controls every aspect of our lives . Sickening . Literally !!

The Democrats control the white house, and both houses of congress. Why don't they just pass the legislation they want to? They don't need the Republicans approval for anything.

Moonbeams,

sarcasm, metafile

Oops, my bad. I apologize.

Skipthesong

As for comparing us to say Europe, who do you think makes the medicine to begin with?

People in Canada and other countries, get the same medicine we get from the same companies for half or less the price we pay because of socialized healthcare. It is more expensive in the US where these companies are located.

As for no care, its a lie. Everyone in the US can go to the hospital and get healed and even for free. Several states cover kids up to 12 and several states have their own version of health care which they don't want to lose and in those states, you most likely can't use your insurance.

Even more of reason to provide healthcare for all. In these few States like Hawaii it is proof Universal Healthcare works. Why would we not make this available to everyone?

We would reduce more costs for everyone in the long run because of this preventive medicine. Healthcare is expensive because it is treating the problem when it has already started. It would have been cheaper through preventive medicine which is covered by Universal Healthcare in the first place.

It would get rid of all this tort. Insurance companies won't have so many payouts. They would need to pay so much for lobbyist. All the insurance dropping you when sick. People could keep going to work and not take off so much. Everybody wins!

If they dems did, they make sure taxes were reduced GREATLY for small biz to hire more people, they'd make sure the min wage is kept at where it should - a starting point.

President Obama's plan provided 95% of the poplulation with tax breaks. The same ones that own small businesses. Or are you talking about the "Joe Plumber imagination scenerio"? I would have a small business if I actually had money to get a small business. So I will be mad at Obama because in my imagination situation it would be challenging.

Additionally, we keep hearing about this 50million without insurance, yet even if this passes, its still 10 + years out before it starts.

Even more so reason, for the Republicans to not whine or make up these apocalyptic scenerios to mislead voters. It won't go into affect for a long time.

sarcasm, metafile

Vulcan,

It actually did work because most viewers saw that the Republicans had nothing to provide. Despite the majority of Americans want something to be done about Healthcare. It also showed how immature the Republican Senators because they saying simply No to say NO. Most of the Republican measures are already in the Bill. What is there excuse now?

You must have not seen the CPAC summit. Actually Young folks and moderate conservatives are leaving the GOP and thinking about a third party. They booing fellow conservatives you see in the media. For the extreme, un rational and false views.

Example:

Newly appointed Brown, who has been seen as a Benedict Arnold, actually voted with the Democrats recently because he felt it was best for the people of his State and not the Political Party of NO.

Glenn Beck spoke there and said: We should have to pay taxes and the gto the government and gave short History lesson about the country. Also that the government shouldn't be counted on to takecare of the people. (socialism) Then he said he didn't learn any of this school but by going to the library becuase it is free and anyone can do it. The same public library that our taxes pay to provide access to the people of this country. Stupidity at its Finest!

Childish behavior like that by Republicans are making themselves more foolish by the minute.

We Americans should feel deep shame when looking at Canada, Europe and the UK where people have affordable and high quality health care." As a person who's been in the med industry and married to a doctor here in Japan, I can tell you have not researched properly. In addition to that, even the dems are not even talking about going that far so your anti-repub rants are immature. The problems can easily be fixed, but on both sides of the issue, politicians have interests to protect. Bring in tort reform, and I'll wave a banner for the dems bill Bring the FDA under more scrutiny, which is causing much of our medicine's prices to soar. In addition to why medicine is so expensive is falls back to tort reform. They pharma companies get hit left and right with law suits year after year.

As for comparing us to say Europe, who do you think makes the medicine to begin with?

States need to allow us to purchase insurance and use as freely as we want. Try buying insurance in NY state and go to Mass if you're sick. That's not a dem or repub problem, that's that state's problem.

As for no care, its a lie. Everyone in the US can go to the hospital and get healed and even for free. Several states cover kids up to 12 and several states have their own version of health care which they don't want to lose and in those states, you most likely can't use your insurance.

Additionally, we keep hearing about this 50million without insurance, yet even if this passes, its still 10 + years out before it starts.

But then... the "Dedider" didn't give much care for Joe and Jane worker" Face reality, at the moment, none of our elected politicians care about Joe and Jane. If they dems did, they make sure taxes were reduced GREATLY for small biz to hire more people, they'd make sure the min wage is kept at where it should - a starting point. And if repubs cared they would never have brought down costs for education. I could go on and on, but its pointless I guess.

Obama is into campaign mode.. trying to turn his campaign promise to televise on Cspan, the debates over healthcare reform. He is not televising it for a different reason, to "make the republicans look bad" and him look like some type of leader but it isn't working. He's looking like a baby and amature trying to get his poll numbers up.. the independents and the young are abandoning him in a stampede.

The GOP's ongoing campaign to screw America, the core reason for the GOP's sorry existence, was broadcast live to the nation yesterday. tkind2 (above) is right on the money about the money - one Rep. senator said America cannot afford healthcare reform. Well, if the party this cowboy belongs to hadn't sent national debt rocketing up by $6 Trillion under bush jnr., maybe universal healthcare would be affordable! If Americans want any more proof of the GOP's tireless efforts to screw them, they just need to count how many GOP senators are prepared to vote for a bill that will allow at least 30 million more Americans to enjoy the benefits of healthcare coverage.... ZERO.

That number says everything and is one more reason to add to the ever-growing list of reasons why the current GOP is the most anti-American party in U.S. political history.

I'm with TokyoRoughGuy. Democrats are only interested in protecting the profits if big business, especially the health insurance companies.

moonbeams,

Where are you even getting your imaginary facts from. It was the Republicans who said that Healthcare Reform would hurt the Free markets for the Insurance industry from the beginning. What industry do you think Health Insurance companies are apart of?

One more note. As for the "Decider". Brother Bush was more interested in invading countries that had nothing to do with 911 than taking care of the needs of the people. Just imagine if all that money you can hear sucked away to Iraq could have been spent at home on health care. Just imagine how far along our improvements to health care could be today.

But then... the "Dedider" didn't give much care for Joe and Jane worker. Except that is to call them to service to be killed in his idiotic and pointless war in Iraq.

Thank you "TokyoRoughGuy" minister of propaganda for the Bush administration. Now time for a little reality check.

The people of America need health coverage that does not involve bankruptsy. 1/2 of our population have no or too little coverage. This needs to change.

Both parties are largely in the pockets of big business and insurance. This institutionalized corruption has and continues to prevent real change in health care and in many other key areas.

No viable solution is likely to come from a "compromise" given the polarity of the positions on this issue. Those advocating pushing something through are right. However, this is largely unrealistic thinking.

No light at the end of the tunnel, is the base fact of health care. The average family will continue to struggle and government will continue to fail on this issue.

We Americans should feel deep shame when looking at Canada, Europe and the UK where people have affordable and high quality health care. We have failed to take care of one of the most important issues for American families. Republican or Democrat alike, our nation has FAILED to take care of this problem. The people should express their outrage!

I don't get it, he doesn't need the repubs to pass it. What is the hold up?

Either which way this falls, there is going to be a lot of cash to be made. Someone needs to hurry up.

Anyway, I watched a bit of this circus. Again, they are not hitting the roots of the problems. NEITHER side.

If you hate the insurance companies, you should not be down with the dems ideas because its handing them biz on a silver platter.

With 2,400 pages to go thru -I hope these politicians suffer page-by-page.

People who have health insurance and don't use it much are satisfied, but when people have to use it and put in claims they then become disatisfied because of denial of procedures, pre-existing conditions, claims, etc.

I'm with TokyoRoughGuy. Democrats are only interested in protecting the profits if big business, especially the health insurance companies.

Odogma,

The Republicans were invited to show the American people just how ridiculious the Republicans were being. The bill has Republican ideas all over it....but because it came from a DEM President the methods and aproaches are wrong.....absolutely amazing. And some people want these clowns in power.

CNN is home to some of Obama's loudest, silliest cheerleaders.

Yet they published a poll yesterday which shows only 25 percent of the American public now believe Obamacare would be better than what they currently have access to.

the republicans are only interested in one thing - themselves and the corporate interests they serve

TokyoRoughGuy,

You mean this "great uniter"

April 2006 Boston Newspaper http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/04/30/bush_challenges_hundreds_of_laws/

President Bush has quietly claimed the authority to disobey more than 750 laws enacted since he took office, asserting that he has the power to set aside any statute passed by Congress when it conflicts with his interpretation of the Constitution.

Among the laws Bush said he can ignore are military rules and regulations, affirmative-action provisions, requirements that Congress be told about immigration services problems, ''whistle-blower" protections for nuclear regulatory officials, and safeguards against political interference in federally funded research.

Legal scholars say the scope and aggression of Bush's assertions that he can bypass laws represent a concerted effort to expand his power at the expense of Congress, upsetting the balance between the branches of government.

Where were you when all this happened? LaLa land!

adaydream,

No, Bush had bilateral support on those items. He was the great uniter.

The fact is that the American people support reconciliation if it is done by Republicans because it is in the interest of the people. But the Democrat Party is so self-serving that we know their reconciliation is based on lobbyist money. The Democrat party can never be trusted to serve anyone but their rich friends in big business.

bush pushed through the tax cuts and the Rx Drug plan. bush never... right. Check the facts before you just type. < :-)

Metaphile,

Just force it through.

Typical Democrat Party thinking. Bush acted with concessions, and had the agreement of both parties on all decisions. He never had to resort to reconciliation, which the Democrats will do, and then will face the rage of the American people at the polls.

I meant to say:

This is one of the times in his Presidency, Pres. Obama, should actually behave like Bush Jr. Now that he has tried to include Republicans and they didn't want to help. Since they never offered any solutions but "NO". Just force it through. Bush Jr. shouldn't have gotten half of the things he did through Congress. Most notably the things that actually took our Freedoms away. He just pushed them through.

It is time Presdident Obama did the same. Let, those people judge him later. He also needs to start flaunting some of the things he has achieved. Like all the important terrorist figures he has captured since being in office. He has caught or eliminated more important Taliban and Al Qaeda figures than Bush and Cheney. Simply because they wanted to prolong the war and Pres. Obama is hoping to end it.

This is one of the times in his Presidency, Pres. Obama, should actually behave like Bush Jr. Now that he has tried to include Republicans and then want to help. Since they never offered any solutions at but "NO". Just force it through. Bush Jr. should n;t have gotten have a things he did the Congress. Most notably the things that actually took our Freedoms away. He just pushed them through.

It is time Presdident Obama did the same. Let, those people judge him later. He also needs to start flaunting some of the things he has achieved. Like all the important terrorist leaders he has captured since in office. He has caught or eliminated more important Taliban and Al Qaeda leaders than Bush and Cheney. Simply because they wanted to prolong the war and Pres. Obama is hoping to end it.

Wow, how many different ways can republicans say "NO"!. Dozens.. < :-)