Obama says health care critics use 'scare tactics'

Stand your ground, Mr. President. All good Americans are behind you 100 percent. Remember that the critics in your audience are part of an ever-diminishing fringe who would rather resort to craven, cowardly, and crazed efforts to stop democracy through civil dialogue than allow the United States of America to move forward. You're to be commended for hearing their voices, since they lack the guts to let anyone else speak.

[“UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. ... It’s the Post Office that’s always having problems.”] hehe it looks like he just shot himself in the foot.

Yeah, that wasn't the best example to use. Me thinks!

UPS and FedEx only deliver packages and only to profitable areas --> even they use USPS. USPS is generally cheaper also.

ObamaCare is a great way for the Dems to add to the Federal Reserve debt. Since they are buying up the banks right now you could assume hospitals and insurance will be next. The populace must be controlled from birth to death.

franz75. Hardly. No rational person expects perfection of any human endeavor. What we expect are improvements. And what Obama clearly meant by that statement is that we have seen the competitive challenge between UPS and FedEx and the Post office result in choices for Americans. And in competition that has improved both service and pricing in many cases. The same will be true of health care as insurance companies are forced to compete for our money.

I think this program is just a first step. We've seen better systems in other nations that take very good care of health care for their citizens. We need to do more in the US over time. But it has to start somewhere, and this is it.

The flatearther types like Sarah Palin can wave their fear flags all they want. The American people are tired of these nut cases who clearly only care about their corporate benefactors and their narrow visions of what it means to be American. Real Americans are struggling hard working people who need real solutions and for someone to put their interests ahead of business and ahead of the powerful. We fear nothing but more of the same backward leadership that Palin's peers have imposed for too long. Time to change. So Sarah, sit down and shut up. We are not afraid of progress.

All good Americans are behind you 100 percent

Personally. I like Obama and support him on this issue. However, your statement is ridiculous. There are many good people who are against his plan for various reasons.

Obama says health care critics use 'scare tactics'

Oh. They've filled that spot in the cabinet. Who is the Secretary of the Obvious?

Taka

Obama is right: The USPS needs to stop the "franking" (free postage) for members of congress. The President doesn't get the frank -so maybe that's why he's got a beef with the USPS. We need to pull the purse strings tighter -and that includes Pelosi's 550million$ fleet of jets.

Gee? You think? I mean, only a week or so ago there was some out-of-touch dimwit talking about 'death panels', and on here you have critics saying you will be controlled from birth to death if you have health care.

The only thing that's still amazing to some on here is why the Republicans ever bother getting out of their nuclear bomb shelters in the morning to face another day, since they're so scared of everything.

I can't help but laugh at President Obama, Democrats, and the main stream media for their hypocrisy on this issue. For eight years, anti-war Liberals shouted down those who supported President Bush's war efforts in Iraq and even Afghanistan trying to scare people with - "this is another Vietnam" and "the war is lost" rubbish. During the Social Security debate a few years back, the Dems scared seniors into believing that Bush was going to take away their pensions. What about the Bush is Hitler and all the Brown Shirt talk about his administration.

Code Pink and ACORN go after people at their private residences and interrupt political gatherings and Congressional committee hearings. At the time, the Liberal media made it out to be patriotic. Awww, but when the target of the protesters is Liberal socialist policy, it's un-American and raging mobs. Man that's hilarious.

Obama is losing. The war isn't over yet and there is still a chance that he could surge back. Well no - Obama is against surges!

“UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. ... It’s the Post Office that’s always having problems.”

Obama confirmed that private companies do a better job at running a business than the federal government.

Watch for him to "recalibrate" this foot-in-mouth statement.

Wolfpack: "I can't help but laugh at President Obama, Democrats, and the main stream media for their hypocrisy on this issue."

I can't help but laugh at your completely off the wall comparison. People upset and saying going to war is going to cost billions and huge loss of life vs. Republicans using scare tactics over universal health care?

Fortunately, under Obama you'll be covered for the visits to the 'doctor' that such comparisons indicate the need for. :)

RomeoRamen: "Watch for him to "recalibrate" this foot-in-mouth statement."

Please! This from a guy who supports a moron who made the world's single-most record for a supposed leader who makes daily gaffes. If people want to point out he made a stupid statement, fine, but don't go gloating about it as though you didn't support the man who made the MOST in the world (and who support palin, who comes in a close second); it's worse than hypocrisy.

Let's hope Americans can get some decent health care at last out of this.

Statistician: Indeed. I can even picture it now... the scared and shaking Republican goes in for a health check thinking he's going to see Boris the Man Skinner cut him up in the name of Socialism, and when he realizes it was a perfectly decent health check and that he's fully covered, maybe... just maybe... the blinders will come off and he can look around and see that all his fears, panic, bombast, were all out of order and without reason.

Many Americans will be covered that previously were not, and that is a good thing.

Desperation is what I see from the right. Desperation to vindicate their pathetic eight year fiasco, desperation to keep the people living under the rule of fear and desperation to stop things they don't even understand.

America is a third world nation with first world "stuff" and an inflated self image of freedom, perfection and self congratulations. The reality in the American home is a hell of a lot harder than people want to admit. The poor are sinking farther. No health care, no good options for education, no jobs and not future. No wonder crime rules so many cities.

The middle class can barely hold on to their homes, have seen their wages stagnate or drop, seen their access to health care diminish or disappear and the chance to send their kids to college become almost unreachable.

And the people most apt to support the right are often the ones most likely to benefit from these programs but who have bought into all the flat earth fear mongering.

Many nations around the world have social health care systems that work and work well. It is time we stopped being backwards and started providing for our people. We have been victimized by high medical costs, inhumane HMOs and greedy insurance companies long enough. America needs a radical revision of how we manage our health care and we need it now.

We already tried Universal Health Care in the US and it was in Obama's state. Hawaii stopped the plan in just 7 months due to the cost it was going to take to pay for the plan. Keiki Care was only covered for kids and just that small portion of people signing up for the plan were engulfing a majority of the budget spending.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Hawaii+ending+universal+child+health+care-a01611674035

If the Hawaiian State Government couldn't take care of a Universal Health Care plan just for the thousands of kids in Hawaii, how can the US Government run a Universal Health Care plan for 300+ million people?

What Obama is really saying at the end there is the government could drive the private insurance companies out of business if they wanted to but they won't because in America the private sector can always do things better than the government. Especially when the government intentionally ties its hands behind its back. Got to protect the oligarchs and kleptocrats you know.

It would be interesting to see an economic justification for private, for profit health care, instead of political, social and "they are gonna kill my granny and control my life" ones. Seems to me that health care is by definition unprofitable, because it is a product that NOBODY wants to use or buy. They use it because they have to. So the only way you can turn a profit in such a business is by rationing of access and treatment and scamming the system, and that is how you end up with the most expensive system in the world. Because you have to create the cut for the private sector.

I watched Obama last night. I thought he held his ground, but I can't get over how people are going at critics. Really, its disgusting. Its no different than the Bush admin's claims if you were against the war, you were un-American. Now, no matter what initiative comes out of this admin, you either support or you are un-American. they are even calling farmers out in Fresno, whose water has been turned off to save a small little fish, un-American. Unbelievable. We need to get rid of Pelosi and then judge Obama without the Queen.

If anyone bothered to notice, many of the critics are people who are either at the retirement age or getting close. they have watched social security fail They have seen the education system fail they have had their taxes increased and increased They have watched their grown children basically give up on sending their kids to a decent college due to costs They are probably within the great % who have seen their grown kids and their families lose their home. They have watch their grand children get tied up in a war where no goals were set. And you want them to jump up and say I trust the US Gov? You've got to be kidding me. Please stop being so blind, let them have their one and only rant against the government because of this past week, you have now lost your right to question something the government puts out - doing so labels you and I am sure their is a black list lying around somewhere.

skip: "Really, its disgusting. Its no different than the Bush admin's claims if you were against the war, you were un-American. Now, no matter what initiative comes out of this admin, you either support or you are un-American."

Actually, I don't see anyone saying that except to take digs at people who said it during the bush admin. The only difference being, of course that aside from Pelosi there is no one actually saying and meaning, "If you don't support this you are un-American", whereas during the bush era, and even now with that dolt palin, there were people who said and 'meant' it. In fact, bush himself said, "You're either with us or against us", so are you going to show us where Obama has said this? I agree that Pelosi is out of line for saying so, but in the case of the bush era EVERYONE was saying it on the Republican side, from the top down, so much so that they tried to change the name of such tried and true foods as French fries and French toast.

skip: Your entire last argument is pointing out the errors of the last admin. and asking people not to trust the current admin., which is rectifying a number of the errors, as a result. Obama didn't start the wars that the elderly have seen their kids (or grandkids) go off and die in; in fact, he's trying to bring a lot of them home. He has to DEAL with the mess created by the past admin. sure, and it's not going to get done overnight, but what you're saying is that the elderly should not trust the current government, which is trying to make things better, and in fact simply stick with the mess that was created for them without doing a thing.

"Please stop being so blind..."

Who's blind? The critics? or the critics of critics? Either way, according to you, critics should always have a say, no?

skip: "because of this past week, you have now lost your right to question something the government puts out"

Please! If that's the case then no one could comment whatsoever on anything at all. Just because you don't agree with what Pelosi said does not mean that the majority of Americans or other people around the world don't have the right to say something.

skip: Your entire last argument is pointing out the errors of the last admin: US government is the US government. the average person doesn't care about parties. really, how many changes have taken place, for the good, as well as how many initiatives can really get disseminated down to the average person? Little. the media outlets are biased in either direction, except middle.

Just because you don't agree with what Pelosi said does not mean that the majority of Americans or other people around the world don't have the right to say something." We went through this crap with the Bush admin, I am not going to give a pass this time. Pelosi needs to go.

smitty: if the unwritten health care bill is so good, and the people don't want it, let them suffer.

skip: "smitty: if the unwritten health care bill is so good, and the people don't want it, let them suffer."

I agree, except that it's not the poor who vote on the laws to be passed, is it?

"the average person doesn't care about parties. really, how many changes have taken place, for the good, as well as how many initiatives can really get disseminated down to the average person? Little. the media outlets are biased in either direction, except middle."

To an extent, I agree with you on how similar they can be, but you specifically mentioned that people are sick and tired of situations (ie. war, as one specific example) that have ruined their lives or the lives or loved ones. Who was the last Democrat to start a war? As to the 'average person', I think they care about parties very much. I don't think you do, and perhaps that's a credit to you if you can use it objectively, but you're misdirecting your own principles onto those of others.

"We went through this crap with the Bush admin, I am not going to give a pass this time. Pelosi needs to go."

As I said, Pelosi has become a liability, and if she goes I won't be saddened by it. The question is, since she is the only example of the things you were complaining about, why should those complaining about the critics be quiet? and why do they 'have no right to an opinion'? Can you give me other examples of what you admit the bush admin. in its entirety was guilty of?

USAFdude: Remember that the critics in your audience are part of an ever-diminishing fringe who would rather resort to craven, cowardly, and crazed efforts to stop democracy through civil dialogue than allow the United States of America to move forward.

Gee, so if I criticize Obama, a man I voted for, I'm part of the fringe who wants to see America fail?

Honestly, what is the difference between you guys and Bush supporters when he was in office? Zero.

Obama seems a little off his game. Maybe way out of his league. This should have been a cake walk with all the media support. How the heck did the Democrats blow this one?

SuperLib: "Gee, so if I criticize Obama, a man I voted for, I'm part of the fringe who wants to see America fail?"

In principle, no, but it of course depends HOW you (as in anyone, not limited to 'you') criticize. If it's honest and constructive, then you are not at all part of the 'fringe who wants to see America fail'. On the contrary, you're keeping the debate alive and well.

"Honestly, what is the difference between you guys and Bush supporters when he was in office? Zero."

Again, HUGE difference, based on the issues alone. What were the issues again? War, as number one. The bush admin and its followers were quite vocal and adamant about painting anyone who did not side with the invasion of Iraq, and it's subsequent disaster, as 'un-patriotic', etc. Calling people who say things like Obama's 'death panel' a fringe argument against health care is not at all akin to what was happening under the last admin's watch.

That being said, whomever was addressing USAFdude in the quotation you posted should have been more specific and clearly addressed the lunatic critics -- ie. those that are claiming a bunch of lies without being informed of the truth, and criticizing BASED ON those lies. THAT criticism is not at all valid.

Bush is relevant to Obama's health care plan?

Calling people who say things like Obama's 'death panel'" smitty: you are aware there are a few top players who have stated quite a few very things like they support forced abortions, one just stated that saving a 15 year old is equivalent to saving 15 75 year old. Another has said that rationing in acceptable and "should be expected" in addition to end of life counseling which can easily be taken wrong. So whose fault is it that these words above don't mean to be as evil as they sound?

I will say with certainty that those pushing for the reform have been very bad at getting the proper information out, unless they don't care and feel that they can scare most into it.

also, why is a national referendum off the table on this? completely refusing it doesn't help!

My take of course, having being once a part of government care, is to the right because of what I seen how the VA was run. And that was under Clinton!

People fear what they don't understand or what they are told to fear. The solution to this debate rests in the distribution of very clear and easy to understand information. That is what is required.

When I talk to people back home, they want guaranteed health care for all. There are strong social and economic benefits for society that I don't see people talking about. There is a cost to having so many people without insurance. Costs to productivity, costs in emergent care for illness that has been untreated, costs to the social and moral fabric of our nation for leaving so many people out in the cold for medical care.

There are also opportunities here if we take the post change steps. Chances to reform medical litigation, drug development and pricing, access to medical eduation and chance to invest in medical infrastructure that will benefit us all.

This issue needs a lot less emotion and a lot more long term thinking and rational evaluation of the costs and benefits. I don't see many critics here offering anything tangible. Nor do I hear advocates discussing successful systems from around the world. Both sides are taking this too politically and need to start making this issue make tanglible and rational sense to the people who badly need it.

tkoind2: People fear what they don't understand or what they are told to fear. The solution to this debate rests in the distribution of very clear and easy to understand information. That is what is required.

Good luck finding that. All of the search results bring up links from the Left who 100% support the plan or the Right who claim it will bring about the end of us all. If major health care reform fails it won't be because of the insurance companies or the trial lawyers or the plan itself, it will fail because of political bickering.

The plan looks like it gives coverage to everyone, which is a good thing. It looks like it modernizes the medical process, which is a good thing. It looks like it let people continue to use their private insurance if they want to, which is a good thing. But it also shifts a burden onto business, which is a bad thing. And it doesn't do enough to contain the costs of rising health care, which is a very, very, very bad thing.

It's all in the details but getting the details has been extremely difficult. How much is the public option? It's a sliding scale? Private insurers will be forced to take people with preexisting condition, but at what rate? And if it's too high with the public plan just include everyone with major, chronic illnesses which will be too expensive to handle?

Obama's plan is a good first step to getting everyone covered quickly, but at some point there has to be a real solution to the rising cost of health care. That's a global problem that no country has found a solution to.

tkoind: "People fear what they don't understand or what they are told to fear. The solution to this debate rests in the distribution of very clear and easy to understand information. That is what is required."

Agreed, but I also agree with SuperLib on the political bickering. The thing is, you're right that dissemination of information is key, and that goes for ALL things, albeit it's more important in this case than in a lot of others. BUT, as SuperLib indirectly stated with politics, you're not going to find it; which is to say, it may well exist and be distributed, but people seem to want only to listen to what THEIR politicians have to say.

I mean, some moron just carved a swastika on a congress person's door. If that's not fear-mongering and complete misunderstanding (not to mention a lack of education), I don't know what is.

is there really any reason to bicker, I mean has there ever been a bill that was this big and had not passed?

USAFdude: "Stand your ground Mr. President. All good Americans are behind you 100%."

That must mean any Americans who oppose Obama's health care plan must be bad Americans, and since only 42% of Americans support Obama's health care plan, that's a whole lotta bad Americans, eh, dude?

that's a whole lotta bad Americans, eh, dude?

you said it chief

only 42% of Americans support Obama's health care plan" Since when did Repubs or Dems really care about what the American people think?

Hey, instead of having those end of life consultations, you think they could instead give a boost to the old and hit hard on smokers, fat, junkies, and alcoholics? Oh, and those un-clean people too!

TennCare, MassCare, KeikiCare are all having difficulty or have failed, yet ObamaCare is the success.

The Keiki care surprised me because with a small population (uninsured kids) and Hawaii's isolation you would have thought it would be a success, but 85% of the kids were from people who dropped their insurance to be on the program.

I still believe as a model Alaska or Hawaii should do it as a model program with their Federal Taxes paying for part of the program. A doctor (GP) program in place and reduced liability (tort reform) for doctors/medical. =Successful innovations must be made instead of just ObamaChange.

SuperLib:

Gee, so if I criticize Obama, a man I voted for, I'm part of the fringe who wants to see America fail?

Nope. You're part of the craven, cowardly, crazed fringe if you attempt to shout down others' voices simply because you disagree them. Of course, you could always engage in civil conversation. Just an idea.

Honestly, what is the difference between you guys and Bush supporters when he was in office? Zero.

Honestly, there are plenty of differences, intelligence and patriotism (of Democrats) being the top two.

Moonbeam:

Personally. I like Obama and support him on this issue. However, your statement is ridiculous. There are many good people who are against his plan for various reasons.

Then let's hear those "reasons" without the fearmongering, hatemongering, and blatant denial of others' democratic rights to be heard. Take your time...

What exactly is it you're adding to the discussion, USAF?

Then let's hear those "reasons" without the fearmongering, hatemongering" Since I once worked in the VA and I am married to a doctor here in Japan, I could list quite a few, but someone like you, as you usually do, would twist to appear as fearmongering! So, why bother, you've made your decision for the rest of the country and we are supposed to just suck it up.

I really hope I don't have to pay into this while I don't reside in the US.

I am against Obama using his gang, the SEIU "AKA the purple shirts" to attack protesters and cause hostility and harm to the American people. -I don't see where giving people the "beat down" helps our health care battle.

Badsey at 08:16 PM JST - 12th August I am against Obama using his gang, the SEIU "AKA the purple shirts" to attack protesters and cause hostility and harm to the American people. -I don't see where giving people the "beat down" helps our health care battle.

Your right, oh btw did you happen to know that he has no healthcare plan because he is unemployed? Now the poor innocent fellow is asking for help to pay for his pain and suffering?

Why don't you jump on in there and donate some of your money to help the poor fellow out?

Oh wait, if you did that could be considered a form of Socialist healthcare! So forget about it, let the guy pull himself up by his boot straps. That is the American thing to do, isn't?LOL

You mean now he is unemployed after the Purple Shirts beat him down and stole his "don't tread on me" junkett -Well there is always a Gov job just on the other side!

health care critics use 'scare tactics'

stop marginalizing the skeptics and answer the questions, willya?

ca1ic0cat: "stop marginalizing the skeptics and answer the questions, willya?"

He answered some quite well, I think. Now, the freaks like the dudes spray-painting swastikas and what not on signs simply don't want to listen to the answers and are buying into the fear-mongering (or conducting it!) you seem to want to ignore with your comment.

SuperLib: "What exactly is it you're adding to the discussion, USAF?"

Please... after your last post on the Afghanistan thread?

Badsey at 08:52 PM JST - 12th August You mean now he is unemployed after the Purple Shirts beat him down and stole his "don't tread on me" junkett -Well there is always a Gov job just on the other side!

That vid was so funny, loved the way he jumps up and starts walking around....Then the funnist part of all is that he goes to the hospital and next we see him in a wheel chair looking like Timmy from South Park!LOL

The man is trying to get P.A.I.D.! The vid is too good, love the way that they notice that he is being filmed and is warned...LOL

Got to tell you it was a bit of bad acting on his part, but if he gets something then he does. It is the new American way to get paid......LOL

http://www.osborneink.com/2009/08/faking-it.html

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/8/9/764181/-Alleged-St.-Louis-attack-victim-has-no-health-insurance-%28updated%29

He wants to get the C.A.S.H.! LOL

Moderator: Back on topic please.

JoeBigs: Are you really surprised someone like 'realist' (misnomer) would believe the video?

That's part of what all of this is about, really... Obama is asking people not to buy into the fanaticism or the radical nutbags who paint swastikas on signs because they think... well... who knows what's going through the minds of such screwheads! Sure aren't seeing a shortage of people defending the idea that the 'world is going to end' if they get health coverage.

I will Unionize the Blue Tarp Shanty People (BTSP-AKA "The Blue Tarps") and terrorize the Japan political establishment (to bend to my will !!), but instead of violence we will just have a "move in"

Note: This is a take off on the 70's "sit ins", but I thought a move in would be more terrifying. Besides the visually terrifying blue tarps we will play Enka and 70's music for our themes, with JPop to signify our rally cry.

Hey, USAFdude, why do you suppose only 42% of Americans support Obama's health care program?

President Obama

The New York Times has the solution to you Post office problem. They printed on Aug 7th (Prophetic isn't it).

The answer..........PRIVATIZE IT COMPLETELY SO IT CAN COMPETE WITH UPS AND FEDEX.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/08/business/08nocera.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2

So Mr. President.....You want to create a Government run Health insurance plan that would be so crappy that private plans will not go out of business after all (the post office argument you made), or a plan that is so good that private companies can't compete and go out of business and you end up with single payer Govt run universal health care by default?????

Come clean and tell us which is it Sir.

sarge: "Hey, USAFdude, why do you suppose only 42% of Americans support Obama's health care program?"

My guess is that a lot of honest, hard-working people are hesitant to buy into something that they are not sure about, and they are getting no clear signals from either party on who to trust. As such it's easier to stick with what they've got -- or in the case of the uninsured, who are probably not included in the stats, what they are not used to -- than risk the idea of what people like the fear-mongers in question are throwing out for anyone to bite.

I don't think the majority of people who are against it are bad people, I just think that MOST of them fall into two or more categories:

1) the rich who already are fully insured against anything, and don't want to pay more. 2) the people who are nervous about legitimate change and want to see tangible results BEFORE they put their money into it.

The latter are not unrealistic in their expectations either, but that's just not the way it works. And it doesn't help that any time they are asked to look to other countries where it DOES work there are people who start shrieking 'Socialism' and painting nazi symbols everywhere.

It only makes sense for the Swastika to be the new national symbol for our "Public" Health Care Plan (PHCP-Cops). Print those shirts now and I want 100% health enforcement. Nice leather boots and belts, a holster to hold the lethal injector etc.

You know they have always talked about the poison pill amendment (taxes, slavery etc), but here I believe we have finally found it.

Badsey: "It only makes sense for the Swastika to be the new national symbol for our "Public" Health Care Plan (PHCP-Cops)."

So the guy who spray-painted it on the Congressman's sign board is pro-health care?

As usual, you show how utterly out-of-touch you are.

Now sarge Starts To Pay Attention To Polls And Statistics.....Going To Go Back And Read The bush Ones Again?

Dendon: to be fair to sargie, he was only following pasquinade's comments (as 'teleprompter') that polls 'only matter to Europeans', except when they matter to Republicans. sarge is but a boy, after all.

Sad but true: If we would just end the Iraq /Afghan/Pakistan wars, cut a few military bases you could probably pay for ObamaCare -and America would be far better off. But Obama and The Fed don't want to do that.

Change is needed, mostly innovation, but I shouldn't have to worry about getting beat-up by the Purple-People Eaters just because I want my non-Gov doctor (what's left of them).

What did the 1Trillion+ bailout do for the average American -not a damn thing, small business couldn't get a loan and Goldman Sachs (a Federal Reserve shareholder) made billions. Where did all this money go and who is accountable? -Why should we believe ObamaCare will be any different?

SuperLib:

What exactly is it you're adding to the discussion, USAF?

I'm adding my opinion, as well as my support for President Obama. Last time I checked, it was still OK to express my views. Sorry if you're unable to shout me down.

Sarge:

Hey, USAFdude, why do you suppose only 42% of Americans support Obama's health care program?

Because the other 58% can't get cogent information about the plan due to the loonies' "shoutdowns". Once these Republican fearmongering idiots grow up and let others' voices be heard (i.e. democracy), you'll see President Obama's approval rating for the health care plan soar. Bets, anyone?

The irrational critics are simply doing nothing but bitching on Obama's health care plan with misinformation and scare-mongering tactics. They might want to do anything to frustrate Obama's plan by instigating the protests and distractions at town-hall meetings.

smithinjapan says:

I can't help but laugh at your completely off the wall comparison. People upset and saying going to war is going to cost billions and huge loss of life vs. Republicans using scare tactics over universal health care?

Say what? You have just confirmed my argument. In the mind of Liberals, it's okay to shout down other Americans that disagree with them but it's "scare-tactics" and "un-American" for anyone to question Liberal orthodoxy. As if makng the American's health care system socialist won't cost billions (into the trillions according to the CBO) and the loss of life and quality of life (ie. rationing, limiting treatments, services, medicines, etc.). Hillarious!

Sarge says:

Hey, USAFdude, why do you suppose only 42% of Americans support Obama's health care program?

Hey Sarge, I would guess that most of the Lefty's here just think the average American is just too stupid to think for themselves and are wondering why the public doesn't accept their propaganda instead. Those snobby Libs - don't you love'em - always looking out for the average Joe!

President Obama himself in a confused attempt to justify government run health care admitted in his hand-picked town hall meeting the other day that the private sector (UPS, FedEx) does a better job than a government sponsored entity (USPS). Even he doesn't really belive what he is saying.

Obama: "UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. It's the Post Office that's always having problems"

Unbelievable!

Now onto the reason why the far right is up in arms to get this bill killed.

There are two real simple answers;

One, many right wingers fear the President some for his public appeal while others because he is not white. Proof as always is provided below;

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17622282/Do-YOU-FEAR-Obama

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/25302.html

http://www.examiner.com/x-19160-Bucks-County-Conservative-Examiner~y2009m8d12-11-year-old-girl-at-Obamas-New-Hampshire

http://townhall.com/columnists/SandyRios/2008/10/31/we_must_defeat_barack_obama?page=2

Two, the far right wing needs to show to the left that they still have a voice.

That is why their pundits are on all their Rove script. Take a listen at what they are saying and you will see a clear message,"Hate!". Same message that Rush and the other pundits were saying last election. Here are some examples;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hea-4VJZXRE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv_L8x6jfn8&feature=related

These are just two Far right Republican reps who like to speak what is on their mind, and dare I say their minds are not all there....LOL

Enjoy....

wolfpack: "Say what? You have just confirmed my argument. In the mind of Liberals, it's okay to shout down other Americans that disagree with them but it's "scare-tactics" and "un-American" for anyone to question Liberal orthodoxy."

Actually, all I did was confirm that your comparison of the criticism to wars in Iraq and Afghanistan with the health care system overhaul is ludicrous, and I was right. Oh, and you've got the 'in the mind of Liberals' thing backwards; it's Republican to use scare-tactics, as they are clearly doing here, or is the swastika thing just an odd form of agreement? They don't use scare-tactics because they question 'Liberal orthodoxy', they use scare-tactics because that's how the Republican party has been trying to win votes for a while now. Proof? Look again, as much as it hurts, at the last election, with adds by McCain and palin basically claiming Obama would steal their children and what not.

This is not a chicken/egg argument, and it's quite simple really (hard for you perhaps, but not for the majority of Americans), there are scare-tactics being employed by a good deal of critics on this issue. Those scare-tactics are in turn being called into question.

Hang in there, whitehawk. No need to be scared about a superior system under which everyone is covered.

JoeBigs:One, many right wingers fear the President some for his public appeal while others because he is not white.

LoL.Bang on, my fine friend.It really is more than funny the way the rightists are still in denial.LOL. Obama's approval rating is off the chart and the shellacking the republicans took last November is one reason why.LoL!

Well, we all know that for bush's crony Big Pharma pals universal health care is a bitter pill too swallow (no pun intended,LOL!)

Of course, the sargies of the world are going to protest but hey, they have already been dealt with here.I HAVE tested these ideas.In particular, on my private students.I bounce these ideas off all levels of students and they NEVER disagree.It only underscores what I have said MANY times and that is that sometimes, in fact,many times times, even MOST of the time, people outside of a country can often understand said country BETTER than those who were born there and live there.

Sadly, it looks like the bush era scare tactics WILL continue.Tis sad,really.I guess they didn't get the newsflash.The Democratic Party controls all three houses of government (and with the absolutely brilliant Professor Sotomayor elevated onto the Supreme Court they also control THAT too,LOL!) so the righties need to get out of the way,and stop the filibustering, and cut the hate and the bias for once.

(Obama) accused critics of creating “boogeymen.”

As usual, the complaints are about who might have organized the protests; not about what those organized are angry about.

Yet, more diversion on the part of U.S. liberals. (rolleyes)

"President Barack Obama"

"( Democrat-controlled ) Congress"

What a disaster. Don't blame me. I voted for McCain-Palin.

Both House and Senate bills would prohibit insurers from denying comverage to anyone with a pre-existing condition, thus elimating one form of rationing in the current system. Private insurers and the federal government currently put a variety of limits on what kinds of medical procedures, imaging and drugs they will pay for. A cornerstone of the health care overhall is a larger role for the govenment in introducing more standards to regulate coverage and expand information abot the most effective treatment.

The legislation would give the government the authority to set minimum benefits levels that insurers would have to offer in order to sell policies in new exchanges. This could mean more coverage for millions of individuals and small businesses that are currently shut out of the helath care system.

Barack needs to call off his health henchmen (and women) and get serious about America's health issues. Busing in boatloads of Democrat Union bullies to beat-out the opposition at these "town hall" meetings doesn't help either.

Remember America is a Republic and not a Democratic. =Even the minority has rights and is deserving of being heard. (>50% rule does not apply)

As an American I am against Barack Obama's (aka Barry Soetoro) strong-arm socialist tactics.

sailwind said:

Bush is relevant to Obama's health care plan?

You must be talking to Wolfpack because he brought it up on this thread.

I could provide a litany of "scare tactics" that have been used by those on the right, on JT, over the past few weeks. They have made so many claims that were blatantly untrue. The biggest one of all is that the government is going to take over health care with the proposed legislation. All the existing proposals clearly state you may keep your existing health care plan. That would be when they vacillate toward the tax burdens on everyone to pay for it. Obama is trying to pay for it that is better then all the past Republican Presidents who each had programs they put forward without a word of how to pay for them.

I noticed that even on this thread sailwind had to use the previous president's name.

By the way if the media is biased as all those idiots keep saying where is Obama's pass on this one? This would be the perfect example. But he is getting no pass and he never has. He will do fine on this issue. But he is personally winning over people in the town hall meetings. No help from the press. He is doing exactly what I proposed on another thread. I actually said he should tell people to come forward if they disagree.

The encounter was so friendly, in fact, that by the end Obama was even asking for skeptical questioners to come forward — to no avail.

Obama is taking a beating in the press. If there ever was a time for the media to "help" Obama or to even tone down the level of discord evident in many people now would be the time to do it. It just goes to prove that the media is not biased to anything but a minuscule degree outweighed by the fringe, center-left and center-right that provides every single point of view on every issue.

I will put my ass on the line one more time and claim we will have a health care bill that will pass before christmas.

"Obama is taking a beating in the press"

Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

I saw on the telly today lots of mis informed Americans running down free health care for all, so silly. I am from England and i had terrible tummy wummy pains, went straight to hospital, was in a room within 5 minutes, saw a consultant within an hour and was diagnosed and left within 4. It was wonderfull service and free for al, rich or poor. 47 million poor American darlings cannot affird even basic health care. Americans are more unhealthy, have lower survival rates from cancer etc compared to "socialist" Europe.

So who are the sill billies? You've guessed it, as usual the beastly Republicans.

The best way for any non-American to understand why health care is being debated is to look at the areas of the country where health care reform is most opposed and comparing that with said state's educational ranking.

The worse the education, the more determined that Obama is there to kill grandma and eat the baby.

Not America's best nor brightest.

Taka

And then we have posters who label Americans who criticize Obama's trillion dollar health care program as uneducated.

Obama, "I have not read the bill but I know whats in it and whats not" That sounds fishy to me.

And then we have posters who go out of their way to prove my point for me.

Taka

I'm FOR nationalized healthcare myself. But I still haven't seen a clear cut "where the money is going to come from" answer.

"The best way for any non-American to understand why health care is being debated is to look at the areas of the country where health care reform is most opposed and comparing that with said state's educational ranking."

Wrong ! The best way for any "non-American" to understand this health care debate is to first look at the facts. Fact- almost 85% of Americans between 22-44 have health care. Fact- Almost 90% of Americans aged 45- and up have health care. Fact- the vast huge majority of Americans have health care. What we are really talking about is the 18 million illegal aliens in the US that drain the coffers for millions and millions in free health care benefits every year. That is the issue here people ! It's no wonder the average American with health care sees no benefit in paying more and more for illegals. Obama needs to debate his immigration reform act first before health care. Dudes got his cart ahead of his horses.

Fact- almost 85% of Americans between 22-44 have health care.

Where are you getting that "fact" from?

Fact- Almost 90% of Americans aged 45- and up have health care.

Fact: Nearly 100% of Americans over age 65 have health care because of a program known as Medicare. That serves to cloud the percentage of uninsured between the ages of 45 and 65, which must have been your intent.

What percentage of personal bankruptcies in the U.S. are due to paying for health care? Lots of people have "health care," up until the point that they become ill and actually need it -- and then their insurance company drops their coverage.

The number of illegal aliens drawing on the health care system is nothing but another diversionary scare tactic.

no one is going to read the bill because itll be 1000+ pages long. and just like when the bailout bill was finished. the repubs will have just a few hours to go over the bill before voting begins

mygrain--I'd like to where you are getting your facts from. I am from the US, have two college degrees and work as an accountant. I don't have health coverage (and haven't since I was 18) nor can I afford it making $9 an hour. I am just one of the MANY in the US who are in the same situation.

@Redhots - the answer here is a little introspection on your part, not a massive government overhaul, and added bureaucracy. You have 2 college degrees and you're making $9/hr? Try something else.

the answer here is a little introspection on your part, not a massive government overhaul, and added bureaucracy.

A little introspection on your part would be more appropriate: Taking a look at the distribution of $9/hr jobs in the current U.S. economy -- jobs that don't normally come with any health care -- what percentage of those currently employed at that salary will find higher-paying jobs waiting for them if they decide they want to "move up."

The simple fact is that the U.S. economy is shedding many more jobs than it is creating, which only adds to the dire situation with health care.

@therealmusashi--I hate to be rude but don't make me laugh. We are in the middle of one of the worst recessions ever and you want me to "try" something else? What else should I try? I apply, interiew, reapply and reinterview for jobs constantly. I have good education, solid experience and great references--they haven't helped me yet...and here you come telling me to try something else. You know what? There isn't anything else and that is the god's honest truth.

@yabits--thanks man!

For those who want to know where the data comes from for health insurance coverage: the US Census Bureau.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/hlthins/hlthin07/hlth07asc.html

Quoting: "Both the percentage and number of (American) people without health insurance decreased in 2007. The percentage without health insurance was 15.3 percent in 2007, down from 15.8 percent in 2006, and the number of uninsured was 45.7 million, down from 47.0 million."

That means 85% of Americans have health insurance, be it private, employer-based, or government-based (like Medicare). Contrary to popular belief, some Americans who do not have health insurance do so by choice; mostly the younger, healthier population that hasn't established enough income to justify the expense. There is certainly a problem with lack of insurance for a percentage of the population, but it is NOT something that requires complete destruction of the current system. Medicaid -- which is designed for low income families -- is an absolute joke. It's so constrictive, and the chances of a doctor being paid for the work they do for Medicaid patients are so slim, that more and more doctors are choosing NOT to accept Medicaid patients. It's not because they don't care -- it's because working with the government is like beating your head against a brick wall covered in iron spikes tipped with belladonna extract. I know -- I've worked in government for going on five years.

This whole insurance debate would be moot if the costs of medical procedures and medications were less expensive. Contrary to popular belief, the high cost of health care is less about greed on the part of medical professionals and pharmaceutical companies, and more about the cost those institutions have to shoulder in malpractice insurance to guard against potential lawsuits from a litigation-happy public. There are legitimate instances when a doctor, hospital, or pharmaceutical company should be sued for malpractice or false marketing. But it is all too often the refuge of an unhappy patient or grieving family to sue as an emotional reaction to a perceived injustice. It is to the point now where, depending on the area of the country where you live, doctors are few and far between because the cost of malpractice insurance is too high for them to pay on their income. And we're talking about DOCTORS. Not nurses (who are tragically underpaid) or healthcare administrators. DOCTORS. That lack of medical expertise then leads to overcrowding at remaining clinics and hospital emergency rooms, which in turn leads to higher costs to the patient as they jockey for a few minutes of their doctor's time.

National health care reform is NOT the answer to these problems. An overhaul of the Medicaid (and Medicare) system and an earnest and successful pursuit of tort reform are what is needed. Try pursuing THOSE avenues before destroying the existing insurance system that is currently in place and working for the vast majority of Americans.

@mnemosyne

"That means 85% of Americans have health insurance, be it private, employer-based, or government-based (like Medicare). Contrary to popular belief, some Americans who do not have health insurance do so by choice; mostly the younger, healthier population that hasn't established enough income to justify the expense. There is certainly a problem with lack of insurance for a percentage of the population, but it is NOT something that requires complete destruction of the current system. "

Actually that is not the case. Also from the census:

The number of uninsured full-time workers increased from 20.8 million to 22 million.

The number of uninsured part-time workers, 5.6 million,

The number of U.S.-born residents who were uninsured increased from 33 million to 34.4 million.

I would say that that those figures are much more than the people who choose "not" to have coverage.

But it is all too often the refuge of an unhappy patient or grieving family to sue as an emotional reaction to a perceived injustice.

Yes, but that doesn't mean they will actually collect a penny, unless a judge/jury agrees with the case they present. No, what must be happening is doctors and nurses are so overworked and stressed with all of the administrative wrangling (and other burdens) laid on them by the system that the rate of genuine mistakes, as opposed to "emotionally percieved injustices" has increased.

"This whole insurance debate would be moot if the costs of medical procedures and medications were less expensive. Contrary to popular belief, the high cost of health care is less about greed on the part of medical professionals and pharmaceutical companies,"

Fair enough, but the root of the debate is over the 10.7 billion dollars doled out to illegal immigrants for free health care ! Many folks here just don't get it, this is all apart of Obama's immigration control strategy. Just how many employers will hire up illegals for a day or two knowing they have to pay their health insurance policy, sorry, it don't work like that. This is all about weeding out illegals, who are now covered because they don't have to announce their immigration status when using American hospitals... Yep, its illegal for health care professionals to ask anyone about their immigration status in a US hospital. I say eliminate that nonsense and watch this debate fizzle out.