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Obama says Putin not fooling anybody over Ukraine

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Russia should annex the Crimean peninsula. The locals clearly wish to be part of Russia, and if the West actually respected self-determination instead of just paying lip service to it, they'd acknowledge this.

0 ( +11 / -11 )

Deplore

Yours is perhaps one of the most idiotic ideas I've come across on JT, and that is saying something. And since you don't seem to understand what is the yardstick for idiotic, it is that which hurts peace and stability in international relations.

Anyways, a word of advice to any Europeans from this American:

If you don't like the way Obama is doing things here, I recommend you work hard to get your country and Europe of its collective behind, and work towards being able to act in its own defense.

5 ( +14 / -9 )

Well, Mr Obama, Bush and Cheney fooled the US about Iraq and OBL, and lived to tell the tale, so why make a fuss about Ukraine?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Pro US puppets I mean the new interim leaders of the Ukraine...... The US always makes the same moves.... The only change is the country.... A new puppet Govt that is Pro US.....

-1 ( +9 / -10 )

@Utrack

I'm as lefty Guardian-reading woolly liberal as you could hope to meet, but I sure as heck would prefer to live under a pro-US government than a pro-Russian one.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

Belarus uses a large percentage of its budget for the extensive radiation testing they do daily. Under the US influence.....IDK....

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

Let the Ukrainians determine their own future.

13 ( +13 / -0 )

The United States is growing increasingly isolated on Russia, as a leaked document in the UK has hinted ministers there are second guessing sanctions. They don't wish to lose Russian investment into the country.

"The government document that was leaked read that Britain "should not support, for now, trade sanctions… or close London’s financial center to Russians.” For the US to impose sanctions on Russia, the support of Britain and Europe will be needed. “Unilateral US sanctions against Russia are not going to have much of an effect if Europe remains a haven for Russian banks and Russian oligarchs to stash and invest their money,” said Senator Chris Murphy, a Connecticut Democrat. “If the United States shuts its economic doors to Russia and Europe leaves its doors open, there won’t be much change in behavior from Moscow." US lawmakers have been voiciferous in proposing aggressive sanctions against Russian banks. Congress also has acted to freeze the assets of Russian public institutions and private investors. US lawmakers are also looking into loans for the coup regime in Kiev which overthrew the elected government of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych. Many people claim the current events over the Ukraine are not betokening of a "new Cold War", but there is much evidence to suggest we've already entered into a prolonged period of intense "diplomatic" jockeying a la the Cold War. It is no secret that the US has an imperialistic war agenda, and Russia is not dumb. Putin has not and will not tolerate NATO expansion to its' borders. In fact, the west - mainly the US -promised NATO would not expand to Russia's borders once the Iron Curtain fell. The US lied. And Russia noted it."

2 ( +7 / -5 )

amusing to watch Obama try to pin the 'standards of international law' rap on Putin when the US continually ignores the same laws when it suits....

3 ( +10 / -7 )

Putin sends in a few battalions of troops. Obama sends in a few dozen lawyers that are experts in international law. I don't think the Russians will have much trouble overcoming Obama's hard ball tactics.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

In reference to JTDanMan's "advice" -

I'm sure that I and most of the European population would find his comments rather ironic.

Besides that, An Americans' advice on this continent (or any, for that matter) is completely irrelevant and useless.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

U.S. President Barack Obama on Tuesday said Russia was not “fooling anybody” over the crisis in Ukraine

And, unfortunately, Obama is not fooling Putin with his tough talk either. Putin is calling the shots on this issue and all Obama can do is react.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Funny, Obama and his administration were completely fooled. Russian troops were already in Crimea before Obama knew boo. But I guess he doesn't realize how foolish his pronouncement sounds. No one is as easily fooled as a fool.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Game over, Once again Putin is the winner !

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

1 billion? Where did we get a billion? Lol wow

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

The US response looks like they still haven't got around to updating their Cold War play book.

Putin made some absolutely valid points. The US/EU come across as sanctimonious bastards with their response to the situation, where the Ukranian president was deposed.

I don't know the history but it's amazing that Ukraine even exists as a united country in the first instance, given the clear internal divisions over direction.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

If Russia can grab this populated peninsula with no international backlash imagine what another powerful nation could do to a small uninhabited island they claim to be theirs...

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

As you know oil pipe lines from Russia to Europe are going through Ukraine. Russia is the second largest oil producer in the world. The Russian's economy heavily depends on oil and natural gas export to Europe. Therefore, Ukraine is a strategically very important country for Russia's survival.

Putin knows Ukraine is not a member of NATO. He is calculating. So, Putin will not back off. He will move the Russian troops to the Eastern Ukraine within 48 hrs. So far, Crimea is quiet, I mean no shooting from neither sides. However, knowing Putin, he will set up a fake unrest in Crimea to justify the Russian moving into the Ukraine. The Russian troops are still in Georgia that is not a member of NATO. He just does not care what we say. He talks like a thug, walk like a thug, so HE IS A THUG. He does not care. After spending 50 millions to the Sochi Winter Olympics portraying a new friendly Russia is all fading away very quickly.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

@Deplore

Russia should annex the Crimean peninsula. The locals clearly wish to be part of Russia, and if the West actually respected self-determination instead of just paying lip service to it, they'd acknowledge this.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Stalin who drove all the Tatars in 1928? The Crimea region is officially a Ukranian state, yet 60% of the population are Russia. I wonder why that is? (/sarcasm)

Putin wants the USSR 2.0. I hope to god I'm wrong.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

The US response to this is good, the EU is letting everyone down by detracting. There is no way Russia should be allowed to stay in Crimea. Russia should be shut out of the international system completely until they get out of Ukraine.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

HowardStern, the thing is, most of the people on that peninsula would be happy to snuggle up to the Russians.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Correction to Athletes post as

Half the people there are Albanians in Kosovo. Not the Mexicans.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Czar Putin is not trying to fool anybody. He does what he wants and really if I'm Czar Putin, I probably will do a little more just to see Obama jumping up and down. Putin is too badass for Obama.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I'm sorry to say that more and more events like this are turning into showpieces for whatever grievances that people might have against the West. It amounts to, "Hey, let's set aside the invasion for just a second and talk about X, Y, and Z. And now I'm done talking."

A vast majority of the points made in this thread only talk about Russia as a vehicle to attack Obama or the US. You have the anti-Obama crowd falling all over themselves to turn this issue into a political attack. The anti-Americans are up to their usual by blaming the US for both actions and reactions. You have the paranoid libertarians using it to make points about the government overall.

Putin must be smiling at how spoiled we've become. He can invade a country and people spend a majority of their time talking about outrage that doesn't involve his actions.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Putin is too badass for Obama.

More like lawless and a liar.

No Russian troops in Crimea. Hahaha. Maybe Putin is a comedian to say something like that. As if the Spetznaz in Crimea are really just Ukrainian country bumpkins with matching uniforms, a chain of command, extensive communications gear, and special warfare equipment and tactics.

My favorite comment from Crimea was a woman who said, Who are the Russians her to protect us from?

It is plainly a land grab and nothing more. Russia always walks away from its promises when it is convenient for them.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@Deplore

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Stalin who drove all the Tatars in 1928? The Crimea region is officially a Ukranian state, yet 60% of the population are Russia. I wonder why that is? (/sarcasm)

No need to wonder - better check with the history books: "On 19 February 1954, the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union issued a decree transferring the Crimean Oblast from the RSFSR to the Ukrainian SSR" (from Wikipedia). In short, because it was a part of Russia until Nikita Chruschov gave it as a present to Ukraine in 1954.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

some14someMar. 05, 2014 - 12:20PM JST

Game over, Once again Putin is the winner !

And you cry over to US when things go wrong.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Fake promises there is No joining the EU for Ukraine ... They are too poor....

The spark was the unexpected decision by the Supreme Rada (parliament) on 21 November to suspend the signing of the ‘association agreement’ with the European Union, scheduled to take place at the EU summit in Lithuania at the end of November. This was not a proposal for Ukraine to join the EU. In the current economic climate the EU can maybe integrate one or two of the smaller states in eastern Europe, but it would not be able to handle Ukraine, the third poorest country in Europe with a GDP per head of €5,600, yet the largest by area and the fifth largest by population (excluding Russia). The association agreement was intended to encourage Ukraine to adopt EU ‘values of democracy and justice’ and, most importantly, enable a free-trade agreement to be reached.

http://www.socialistalternative.org/2014/02/20/ukraine-bloodshed-kiev/

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Funny that I currently work with a Ukranian whose quite avid about his perspective that Ukraine shouldn't be interfered with by Russia and a president (although elected) will not listen to his people. Seems like they want EU support and if the EU screws over Ukraine by not placing sanctions on Russia then the Ukrainians will feel abandoned by the very group they attempted to join. Depending on the EUs choice to support or not the US on sanctions will take our world in in a direction that will be better for all or screw themselves over.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Obama say Yes! We can.

Putin say No You can't.

Obama say Sanction Russia.

EU say No we need Russia Gas.

Obama say You have crossed red line.

Putin say I will cross the Black Sea.

Obama say send your troops back.

Putin launch the ICBM with MIRVs.

If Obama say "bring them on"

What will Putin will send?

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

I guess you Obama critics already forgot about mid 2008, when Russia troops fought against tiny US ally Georgia in the Russo-Georgia War.

Guess what George Bush Jr. did? Basically nothing. Intervention was immediately ruled out.

Where was the criticism then? And what are your rules and standards? That only Obama can be subject to criticism, and that the more conservative a president is, the less criticism shall be directed at him? Talk about ignorance and double standards.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

US and Obama together is irrelevant in any international setting these days. We seen this in Syria, Iran, Southeast Asia and East Asia. China and Russia both acknowledge this!

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Thank you, USA, for protecting my home country from Putin, we - Ukrainians, living in Japan, appreciate this very much. Russian government is a Nazi government, that is happy to kill other nationalities "to protect ethnic Russians" in their countries and restore the Great Russian Empire. Putin is the new Hitler. World should say NO to Putin's dictatorship in Europe.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Ukraine should really just separate - whoever runs Kiev, a geographical half of the country would just protest for replacement. They just can't keep repeating that every time. Let East Ukraine do what they want to do, and West Ukraine would join EU and NATO.

Anyways, Russia may be over-reaching here. First of all, Crimea was, is, and will not be in any threat. Crimea is already quite autonomous, 60% are ethnic Russians, and there's a big Russian base there. It doesn't matter who's running Kiev - Crimea would be OK. There's no need to disperse troops; Russia just needed to sit there and give support to East Ukraine. And what this Crimean issue did is sink Russia's stock market more than 10% in just 1 day, when their economy is in fragile state. Plus Russia is violating their own 1994 Budapest Memorandum, where Ukraine agreed to remove all their nuclear arms to Russia, with Russia's agreement to respect Ukraine borders including Crimea.

http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-explainer-budapest-memorandum/25280502.html

And what's with this Putin pretending those aren't Russian troops and hiding their military insignia. Yeah, and Bill Clinton never had sexual relations with that woman - Putin is just playing with words and lying thru his teeth in front of everybody's faces. Everybody knows who those troops are. If Putin believes what he's doing is right, then why hide it? What's with all this obvious pretending like little kids? Guess his Op-Ed on the NY Times just a few months ago doesn't mean anything to him anymore.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

anahorn Thank you, USA, for protecting my home country from Putin, we - Ukrainians, living in Japan, appreciate this very much

Well well well - why Ukrainian government can't protect Ukraine youself?

because it is not legitimate

It is not the government - it is nationalistic mafia guys....

Nobody support them in East Ukraine

The Ukraine was mobilized - responded 1.5% of conscripts ....

Russian government is a Nazi government, that is happy to kill other nationalities "to protect ethnic Russians" in their countries and restore the Great Russian Empire. Putin is the new Hitler.

Sorry Nazi are popular among West Ukranian nationalists who are in charge in Kiev now

Bandera and Shukhevich (Nazi criminals ) are icons of West Ukraine

In Russia - if you are NAZI - you go to prison ......

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

The only reason why the EU and US are involved is a deal struck with Ukraine to fully disarm it's nuclear arsenal in return for protection. Really it's nothing to do with the US..

In 1954, the Soviets made Crimea a part of Ukraine as a symbolic gesture celebrating 300 years of Ukraine being a part of the Russian Empire (they were conquered essentially, they didnt simply join). But, previous to that, Crimea had been a part of Russia.

That saying (look from the surface) its hard to judge the Russians by it's claim of protecting it's interest, sovereignty and separatism by the pro russia ppl in crimea. But what I think the real intention is, is that the pipeline to russia's oil runs through Crimea.. so it makes sense there so much interest from Russia and the west to do what it can to control that area. Really this is just a political game. US is not much better than the Russians.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Putin, oh Putin, now not only will your Russian citizens hate you but THE REST OF THE WORLD TOO!!

2 ( +4 / -2 )

anahornMar. 05, 2014 - 04:47PM JST

Thank you, USA, for protecting my home country from Putin, we - Ukrainians, living in Japan, appreciate this very much. Russian government is a Nazi government, that is happy to kill other nationalities "to protect ethnic Russians" in their countries and restore the Great Russian Empire. Putin is the new Hitler. World should say NO to Putin's dictatorship in Europe.

Putin is a new Hitler

Putin has been Hitler for decades. He is a very brutal leader. Russian journalists and citizens who challenged Putin have been murdered very quietly. Russia has not been changed. It is still a brutal communist country.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I find it very interesting how Obama finds a billion dollars to give to the Ukraine! The U.S is on the brink of collapse, and he's going to spend a billion dollars he doesn't have........lol!!

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Obama is the "Player" but for now Putin is the PIMP you know what happens to the PIMP in the end!! The Pimp gets played because the player knows the game. He makes the rules!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

HonestDictator: Seems like they want EU support and if the EU screws over Ukraine by not placing sanctions on Russia then the Ukrainians will feel abandoned by the very group they attempted to join

Yep. And it will also send a message that Europe will always walk away when Russia comes to make trouble. People in some countries might take note of this the next time Europe comes knocking at their door.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

"The U.S is on the brink of collapse..."

Really? "brink" means really really soon. Like next month or so, right? Please make a note of that, and if the US economy doesn't collapse by then, feel free to re-evaluate -- and then discard -- your worldview.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I guess you Obama critics already forgot about mid 2008, when Russia troops fought against tiny US ally Georgia in the Russo-Georgia War. Guess what George Bush Jr. did? Basically nothing. Intervention was immediately ruled out. Where was the criticism then? And what are your rules and standards? That only Obama can be subject to criticism, and that the more conservative a president is, the less criticism shall be directed at him? Talk about ignorance and double standards.

I know. Talk about ignorance and double standards. It's cool to bash and trash Bush but when Obama gets bashed and trashed, it's uncool. I see there are many Obama lovers here.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Russia (Putin) has begun military intervention in Crimea. Then Putin will invade the other parts of Ukraine, Moldova, European countries. Citizens of Ukraine ask EU countries, China, USA, Japan, India to support Ukraine by doing one of the following:

do not buy goods produced in Russia; do not issue visas for Russian militaries and officials; do not furnish Russia with weapons; do not invest in Russian business; sell shares of Russian companies. Please, help Ukraine. Stop Putin (Hitler of 21-st century)
0 ( +0 / -0 )

@JeffLee

I guess you Obama critics already forgot about mid 2008, when Russia troops fought against tiny US ally Georgia in the Russo-Georgia War.

Oh yeah that's right Obama's congregation always tries to attach their Messiahs repeated failures to Bush. Why not blame Reagan or Lincoln? Someone - anyone - must be held responsible as long as it isn't the guy currently sitting in the Oval Office. Being a "Progressive" means never having to take responsibility for anything.

It was the frosty relations with Russia that resulted from Putin's incursion into Georgia that Obama and Hillary overlooked in their idiotic reset policy. Geez some people think history began on the day Obama was inaugurated!

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

"Oh yeah that's right Obama's congregation always tries to attach their Messiahs repeated failures to Bush."

I'm doing no such thing. I'm pointing to a double standard. Why does Obama receive a heap of criticism, like accusations of weakness, when nobody questioned or criticized Bush when a very similar incident (and an even weaker US response) occurred while Bush was in the White House?

"Someone - anyone - must be held responsible as long as it isn't the guy currently sitting in the Oval Office."

That was true from 2001-2008. It certainly ain't true now.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

GREATER RESPECT NEEDED FOR UKRAINE

Ukraine is as entitled to its independence as any other nation and over the course of its history has been the greatest victim of Russian brutality apart from the Russian people themselves. The despotic regimes of Russia from Imperial to Bolshevik to Putin have an appalling record of brutality and subjugation of neighbouring nations and internal ethnic and independent minded groups.

The Putin regime has engaged in persecution and war against Russia’s southern, predominately Muslim minorities that has claimed over 250,000 lives during his period as leader. This behaviour is just a continuation of a very regular pattern throughout Russia’s history.

http://www.sbs.com.au/dateline/story/watch/id/600211/n/Russia-s-Hidden-War http://hotterthanapileofcurry.wordpress.com/2010/03/31/255000-muslims-killed-in-russias-war-against-the-caucasus-region/ http://faminegenocide.com/resources/causes.html http://www.artukraine.com/famineart/famine10.htm

The Russian invasion of Crimea is totally unacceptable even if Russia happens to have a strong historical claim to this territory and that a slight majority of residents have Russian ethnicity. Russia has used its military superiority and the threat of invasion to intimidate Ukraine into submission analogous to a rapist using the threat of greater violence or death to have his way with his victim. A price must be applied by the rest of the world against Russia because of this.

The hostility Russians see being directed towards them by the rest of the world is a natural and reasonable response by the rest of the world to Russia’s inability to form strong democratic systems of government, its inability to have a moral and independent system of justice, its inability to respect the rights of all people, its military expansionism and the ongoing brutality and lack of respect toward its neighbours, ethnic minorities and even for its ethnic majority, the ethnic Russian people.

Mikhail Gorbachev probably understood this and chose to liberalise the Soviet Union but the present Putin regime has chosen to follow a political strategy closer to past despotic Russian leaders.

It does not need to be this way. Russia could have become a non-threatening, truly democratic country where the rule of just law applied, that respected the rights of all of its citizens and that respected other nations. Russia has a sizable economy with many competitive advantages and through commerce could have become a large, valuable and respected member of the world community of nations. Even nations that have legitimate historical grievances towards Russia would have been brought closer to Russia through economic self interest, trade and closer contact between their peoples. Perhaps the current Russian leadership genuinely do not want this and prefer the old ways that have been such a disaster for the people of Russia and their neighbours.

The Russian people need to stop blaming foreigners for their problems and for threatening and persecuting them but instead need to look at themselves more critically and ensure that they take control of their own destiny and have truly representative governments and institutions.

No nation wants to invade Russia nor could any nation or military alliance succeed in any form with such a foolish concept. NATO only acts to defend the borders of its member states and provides an essential military balance with Russia that enables much smaller nations such as the Baltic States of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia on Russia’s periphery as well as the other member states to have an independent and more secure future. NATO is a mechanism for stability and not for military conquest and it also acts in the interests of Russia by denying any reckless Russian Governments the opportunity for opportunistic territorial expansion.

The world is nothing like it was prior to World War II and no totalitarian states apart from North Korea exist, not in Europe or in Asia. Russia and China have however shown in recent times a willingness to expand their territorial boundaries in a calculated way and the world must negotiate a return to former borders and/or apply a price for this illegal and reckless expansion.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/us-assures-japan-in-islands-dispute-with-china-20131128-2yays.html http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2013/12/economist-explains-1 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-11341139

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@JeffLee

I'm pointing to a double standard.

Well the problem you have is that Bush isn't president anymore. You had your chance to point out his administrations double standards. Now we get to talk about the current holder of the Lie of the year award.

For double standards you must mean the double standard that it is no big deal for Obama to kill people with drones but bad when Bush does it (and Obama is killing his fellow citizens without due process of law). Like when it is no big deal for Obama to run up a huge debt but unpatriotic for Bush to run up a much smaller one. Oh and it's bad for Bush to eavesdrop on radical Islamist's but just fine for Obama to keep records on nearly every phone call, email, and text for every citizen that the NSA can get it's hands on - you mean those double standards?

I think it's hilarious that Obama thinks Putin isn't fooling anyone when none other than Sarah Palin (whom the Left has been attacking incessantly as being just a dumb women) predicted this very thing would happen under an Obama presidency. For Putin, going up against Obama is like a bear catching salmon swimming up stream. Putin need only put his claw in the water and Obama surrenders himself without so much as a slippery wiggle.

Obama was forever critical of the cowboy go-it-alone approach of his predecessor but now the Messiah has no one willing to take action against Putin. The Europeans are hostage to his fossil fuels and they will tell Obama to go it alone lest they further damage their already anemic economies. It's both a sad state of affairs but also a bit satisfying to see an over-the-top egotist and nihilist like Obama get taught a lesson in power politics.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"Well the problem you have is that Bush isn't president anymore."

No, but he was in 2008 when Russia fought against US ally Georgia...and did nothing. For Putin, going up against Bush was like a bear catching salmon swimming up stream.

"Sarah Palin...predicted this very thing would happen under an Obama presidency"

Indeed. When she made this charge, when the crisis erupted, Bush was in the White House and Obama wasn't . And who did she criticize? Obama, of course. Hilarious.

What do you suggest? Send in the 101st Airborne? Let's have WW3, eh? When has the US ever invaded a European state on Russia's border? The US military can't defeat a bunch of primitive tribesmen in Afghanistan and Iraq or Vietnam. So they sure can't beat a modern organized military.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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