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Obama says that after 9/11, 'we tortured some folks'

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Come on folks! A few terrorists getting tortured, that is the LEAST that they deserve! The Taliban etc..torture women etc..every day for you name it, every off the wall reason, so why should the USA etc..hold back?? Sorry but if you are FIGHTING against terrorists, no need to try and RESPECT their human rights! Let them suffer and suffer and tell us their secrets! (You know, to foil their plots to kill us when we least expect it, Al Qaeda etc..are no joke!! They want us all dead, ask your average Arab, African, etc..they know Boko Haram etc..want blood and all of our necks!!)

-24 ( +5 / -29 )

Well, sadly, some Chinese or Russian commentator will chime in and say, "see, you don't believe in human rights either." The analogy really isn't valid because American citizens are treated reasonably well, but those people aren't big on subtlety.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

The U.S.A. signed an agreement with other countries in the world called the Geneva Convention.

Yet they seem to have chosen to ignore it, notably since GW Bush.

Here is an excerpt from the Geneva Convention that, as already stated, the USA signed:

Not all violations of the treaty are treated equally. The most serious crimes are termed grave breaches, and provide a legal definition of a war crime. Grave breaches of the Third and Fourth Geneva Conventions include the following acts if committed against a person protected by the convention:

willful killing, torture or inhumane treatment, including biological experiments willfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health compelling a protected person to serve in the armed forces of a hostile power willfully depriving a protected person of the right to a fair trial if accused of a war crime.

So, Obama is admitting to US war crimes.

What is his country going to do about this, I wonder.

14 ( +23 / -9 )

When one talks of torture excruciating pain and possible disfiguring may come to mind. It was not that.

Other methods which are not harmful and or painless may have been used. I don't condone it but the desperation shows how US was lacking in intelligence at that time.

-13 ( +6 / -19 )

BertieWoosterAug. 02, 2014 - 08:25AM JST

So, Obama is admitting to US war crimes.

What is his country going to do about this, I wonder.

. It is a violation of International law agreed in Geneva. .

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Also don't forget the video of the beheading from those Geneva Convention abiding terrorists.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

The UN can suck eggs. Useless entity and useless, use of space, the facility should be turned into condominiums, let Donald Trump buy them out, he could turn a profit.

-20 ( +4 / -24 )

Also don't forget the video of the beheading from those Geneva Convention abiding terrorists.

Mark, remember that childhood lesson, "Two wrongs don't make a right"? It's applicable here.

12 ( +17 / -5 )

US has done no beheading! Water boarding is not even in the same category. Not even close.

-6 ( +11 / -17 )

What does international law say about prisoners of war?

The most important rule, enshrined in Common Article 3 of the 1949 Geneva Conventions, is that prisoners of war (POWs) must be treated humanely.

In addition, I want the world to know that a torture is not an American value, and it will never be allowed in USA.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

@MarkG

Half-Million Iraqis died in the War and they were mostly civilians after 9/11. What is U.S. fighting for?

13 ( +16 / -3 )

The most important rule, enshrined in Common Article 3 of the 1949 Geneva Conventions, is that prisoners of war (POWs) must be treated humanely.

In addition, I want the world to know that a torture is not an American value, and it will never be allowed in USA.

They are terrorists, they have NO country, No insignia, NO state anthem made of a foreign fighters and coerced interrogation is not torture, You water board someone, 20 min. later, they might be shaken, but smoking a cigarette later and the best part, they are still alive and talking, but chopping off someone's head because YOU think that individual has the wrong religion or is an infidel, that is torture.

-15 ( +7 / -22 )

When one talks of torture excruciating pain and possible disfiguring may come to mind. It was not that.

Waterboarding is simulated drowning. You're convinced you're going to die, and helpless to prevent it.

Is that not excruciating enough for you?

14 ( +16 / -2 )

Cant answer that sfjp330. And your point? Muslim torture on the west is fine?

-5 ( +8 / -13 )

bass4funkAug. 02, 2014 - 09:22AM JST

The most important rule, enshrined in Common Article 3 of the 1949 Geneva Conventions, is that prisoners of war (POWs) must be treated humanely.

In addition, I want the world to know that a torture is not an American value, and it will never be allowed in USA.

They are terrorists

I do not care what they are. USA is a nation of law. We do not torture animals, We do not torture any living things. That's American value!!

7 ( +12 / -5 )

Establishment of humanitarian conduct during wartime once seemed to be an ethical thing. I'd like to think there are still people who see it as a positive, but I'm beginning to wonder. A lot of folks seem to want to lower themselves to whatever standard a despicable enemy is using rather than set a higher goal, and put up this excuse or that excuse for acting like a thug. I don't think that's the way we ought to be headed.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

@sense

Waterboarding is simulated drowning. You're convinced you're going to die, and helpless to prevent it.

But you are NOT dying, that's the difference, after that, you can go back to watching your cartoons.

Is that not excruciating enough for you?

No, but pulling out finger nails is. Now we are talking real torture.

@global

I do not care what they are.

As I don't care what the useless UN thinks.

USA is a nation of law.

Oh, now under liberals, it's a nation of laws all of a sudden, when it suits liberals and Democrats narrative they refer to the US as a nation of laws? Both sides play this game. We are a nation of laws depending on what law we are talking about. No country is perfect.

We do not torture animals, We do not torture any living things. That's American value!!

Now we are on the same page, you finally agree with me. :-)

-11 ( +5 / -16 )

Sorry but if you are FIGHTING against terrorists, no need to try and RESPECT their human rights! Let them suffer and suffer and tell us their secrets!

And in what way does that make you better than terrorists? If anything, it makes you worse than they do. I'd rather suffer a quick decapitation that spend an hour getting waterboarded. It might not be so harmful physically, but it causes severe psychological trauma. Torture of any kind does that.

Also, to those saying that there was no excrutiating pain involved: what about all the videos and news stories of US soldiers capturing insurgents, putting black bags over their heads and strapping electrodes to them? Are you telling me electrocution doesn't hurt? I think there's plenty of people who would strongly disagree with that.

There is no justifiable cause for torture. It is an inhumane and monstrous act, to be used by the most despicable people in existence, people not worthy of being called human.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

War is ugly and torturing is part of that reality. And why is he talking about it now like it hasn't been mentioned?

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

The Geneva Convention also forbids combatants from posing as civilians. This rule is to protect civilians and soldiers both. If you're not fighting in a uniform that distinguishes you from a civilian, you should not be afforded all the legal protections of a solider. (You should be afforded protection from torture.)

11 ( +12 / -1 )

According to a 2004 CIA Inspector General’s Report, more than 100 people have died from torture.

http://www.salon.com/2009/06/30/accountability_7/

8 ( +11 / -3 )

@Fox

And in what way does that make you better than terrorists? If anything, it makes you worse than they do. I'd rather suffer a quick decapitation that spend an hour getting waterboarded.

That's your opinion, but I don't believe most people will share that POV.

It might not be so harmful physically, but it causes severe psychological trauma. Torture of any kind does that.

We are talking about limited trauma and not the demise and snuff of a human being.

Also, to those saying that there was no excrutiating pain involved: what about all the videos and news stories of US soldiers capturing insurgents, putting black bags over their heads and strapping electrodes to them?

I have ZERO sympathy for terrorists.

Are you telling me electrocution doesn't hurt? I think there's plenty of people who would strongly disagree with that.

We weren't talking about electrocution and the soldiers that were caught torturing some of the captives were arrested and prosecuted and are in prison.

There is no justifiable cause for torture.

No, but there is justification for enhanced interrogation when needed it should be applied.

It is an inhumane and monstrous act, to be used by the most despicable people in existence, people not worthy of being called human.

Save that for Hamas, Al Qaeda, ISIL, Hezbollah, Taliban and all the other affiliate terrorist Jihadist groups. Show your complete distain and outrage there.

-8 ( +6 / -14 )

When one talks of torture excruciating pain and possible disfiguring may come to mind. It was not that.

Whatever comes to mind, waterboarding is unambiguously torture. You have to assume that the United States would not want its own servicemen subjected to this treatment when they are taken prisoner during present and future conflicts. They have done themselves a huge disservice by giving it such prominence - along with mock executions - as a form of "torture lite", and one that may go unpunished.

In any case, it falls very easily within the definition of torture specified in the UN Convention Against Torture, which the United States has signed. This is not some legacy from the more idealistic late 1940s that they have been lumbered with; it came into effect in June 1987.

This passage is particularly explicit, and highly relevant to the rogue actions of the United States and its servant nations since 2001: "No exceptional circumstances whatsoever may be invoked to justify torture, including war, threat of war, internal political instability, public emergency, terrorist acts, violent crime, or any form of armed conflict. Torture cannot be justified as a means to protect public safety or prevent emergencies. Neither can it be justified by orders from superior officers or public officials."

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Half-Million Iraqis died in the War and they were mostly civilians after 9/11. What is U.S. fighting for?

The economy of course

What is his country going to do about this, I wonder.

Not much, there is a reason why Japan and Germany weren't allowed to try their own war criminals.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

bass4funkAug. 02, 2014 - 09:56AM JST

I do not care what they are.

As I don't care what the useless UN thinks.

Classic. Americans need to learn to be humble. We are too arrogant and ignorant. No cowboy mentality, please.

USA is a nation of law.

Oh, now under liberals, it's a nation of laws all of a sudden, when it suits liberals and Democrats narrative they refer to the US as a nation of laws? Both sides play this game. We are a nation of laws depending on what law we are talking about. No country is perfect.

It has nothing to do with liberals. USA is a nation of law. How long have you been away from USA? Your comment like this make me wonder if you are really an American. Let me tell you I dealt with many people like you who failed to project pain and suffering of others. Criminals are all sharing the failure of projection skills.

We do not torture animals, We do not torture any living things. That's American value!!

Now we are on the same page, you finally agree with me. :-)

Your BS is just amazing. What you have said is not going together. You know it.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

@bass4funk people have gotten brain damage and even died from waterboarding. Don't talk about shit you know nothing about. I'd like to see you volunteer for that.

13 ( +15 / -2 )

Classic. Americans need to learn to be humble. We are too arrogant and ignorant. No cowboy mentality, please.

It's easy for people to say that, especially liberals, but they are the first people that want justice if someone was hurt in their family, that is real double standard.

It has nothing to do with liberals.

Oh, yes it does, I'm afraid. The soft shoe pacifist approach isn't working so well abroad as far as the Presidents foreign policy (or lack thereof ) is concerned.

USA is a nation of law. How long have you been away from USA?

Now, 6 months

Your comment like this make me wonder if you are really an American. Let me tell you I dealt with many people like you who failed to project pain and suffering of others. Criminals are all sharing the failure of projection skills.

Now you want me to show you my birth certificate? I was born in Los Angeles, I am a true American and a proud Angelino to the core. Sorry, global, but that last line, I have no idea what you are talking about.

We do not torture animals, We do not torture any living things. That's American value!!

Yes, we don't torture and we shouldn't torture, I totally agree, we are not far apart on the issue, but the Jihadists don't belong in that category, so in essence, you are agreeing with me, again.

Your BS is just amazing. What you have said is not going together. You know it.

No, quite the contrary. I just don't believe that these terrorists have any rights, if you want to have sympathy for them, be my guest, but if you think that these people have compassion and wouldn't behead you in a minute is just pure ludicrous and naive!

-18 ( +2 / -20 )

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@jamez

How do you know what I do and don't know? You don't know me, live with me, what my occupation is. Let's just say, I know more about the subject then you might think, I'll put it to you like that.

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

So were they folks or peeps who were subject to torture, against established international rules?

The comments posted here by some condoning torture is deeply disturbing, regardless of political persuasion on the left-right paradigm.

And atrocities were done to enemy combatants during every war, including killing would-be POWs, so it's not only under GWB.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

The only surprise about that is that a US President has acknowledged it.

13 ( +13 / -0 )

You have to assume that the United States would not want its own servicemen subjected to this treatment when they are taken prisoner during present and future conflicts

Wipeout, that is it in a nutshell. I'd guess the majority of American service members are grateful for Obama's remarks - and if they aren't, they should be.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

bass

Chopping off someone's head isn't actually torture, just murder, plain and simple. Now the US admits to torturing people, what a great example to set for other countries. Kind of makes it hard for the US to lecture other countries about human rights, doesn't it? Anyway, at least Obama is being more open about it than his idiotic predecessor.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

@bass For one if your occupation is somehow involved with waterboarding or those who conduct it like you seem to be implying (otherwise what relevance would that comment have?) then I could imagine with that bias you'd be downplaying its harm to ease your psyche and reduce your sense of culpability. Otherwise, even if you just "know" about it I still sincerely doubt you've ever had the enemy do it to you to even begin to say how it feels!

8 ( +8 / -0 )

badsey3Aug. 02, 2014 - 11:19AM JST

http://www.npr.org/iraq/2004/prison_abuse_report.pdf

badsey, a very good catch!!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"> Elbuda MexicanoAug. 02, 2014 - 07:52AM JST

Come on folks! A few terrorists getting tortured, that is the LEAST that they deserve!

Yup, a few terrorists... but the vast majority were innocent according to the U.S. courts.

Oh, and don't go on about some of the people from Guantanemo who later committed terrorist acts. If someone held me for a decade, tortured me and wrecked my life and then deported me back to my home country which they had turned into an American colony I'd also be pretty pissed off and feel I had every right to get my own back.

The U.S. is masterful at creating self-fulfilling prophecies. Obviously the supply of terrorists was too small, so they decided to kidnap and torture some people until they had some more terrorists, then released them. Not to mention all the little terrorists they're creating on a daily basis through their drone attacks by killing the mothers, fathers, sisters and brothers of people in Afghanistan.

... well done U.S. while I pity the innocent U.S. children who will die when these terrorists grow up and attack the U.S. later I have zero sympathy for the U.S. government, and I have zero sympathy for any U.S. citizen who voted for (and therefore supported) the U.S. government. The blood is on your hands. You are torturers and killers by proxy and that makes you every bit as responsible.

Democracy is "power to the people", but also "responsibility by the people". Can't have one without the other."

Moderator: Who was tortured, whether the torture was of terrorist or innocents, the likely future consequences of this torture and the responsibility of the American people as a whole are definitely "On Topic", not "off topic" as you claim.

It is ironic that in order to further U.S. interests you're prepared to censor people in violation of the very principles of free speech that the U.S. claims to champion. More hypocrisy from a nation of hypocrites.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

This is a hugely weighted issue. Discussion is really important. Glad many are having it. I have long had an issue also with the word "folks". "Are your folks home?" =parents "The old folks out playing checkers." = elderly, retired people with time on their hands in a small town I did not grow up hearing this word regularly and certainly NEVER in regard to victims of torture, much less citizenry of a democratic nation. I just get a real message of "lesser" or "other" or "common" with the usage of "folk." In times of war, I haven't ever read anything like "many folks died as a result of the heavy air bombing strikes in WWII" for exampe. I want US presidents to stop using this term. I find it derogatory and offensive. I may be alone in that view. But, I do not consider myself a "folk" when it comes to making decisions or having a legal impact on policies, even by nothing more than a simple vote. Are Congressional or Judicial leaders "folks?" How do they decide who applies to the word "folk"? "We tortured some folks." "Mommy, I beat up some folks on the playground today." Doesn't sit right with some folks.

Maybe off topic, but seems an innapropriate coloquialism in this case and beyond quaint.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Obama stating

we tortured some folks!

trying to downplay the seriousness of the situation, you know, oh heck, yes, a few, not many, just terrorists, bad guys, and so on and so.......

But torture should always be considered serious and what if when Americans are also tortured, does it still remain, yes! we tortured a few American folks!"

7 ( +9 / -2 )

USA is a nation of law. We do not torture animals, We do not torture any living things. That's American value!!

...Unless the law deems it 'necessary' for the purpose of producing cheap meat, or to test the toxicity of chemicals, or the virulence of viruses, or the efficacy of pesticides. The Humane Cosmetics Act, to ban the use of animal testing in the manufacture of cosmetics in the US, was introduced only in March of this year and has yet to be passed. Literally millions of animals every year are pumped full of antibiotics and growth hormones. Poultry have their beaks partially removed without anaesthetic, to prevent them harming any of the other birds they are forced to live in extreme close proximity to.

We do not like to think that we torture animals, We do not like to think that we torture any living things. This is not limited to Americans; humans in general tend to think the best of 'us' and the worst of 'them'.

The idea being put forward by some on this thread, that it's OK to torture one's enemies or potential enemies, is chilling and indicates that these people do not understand that the problem with torture is not the people it is done to, but the people doing it. If you want to flatter yourself that you are better than 'them', then you don't torture. End of story. Anything else is simply playing with semantics.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Come on folks! A few terrorists getting tortured, that is the LEAST that they deserve!

Setting aside the obvious moral issue of whether torture is inherently wrong and contrary to our principles as a people, and the practical issue that torture is practically speaking a rather ineffective interrogation technique and likely counterproductive in terms of the reputational damage it causes, the problem with this attitude you generally don't know for sure whether someone is a terrorist or not before you torture them - or after for that matter.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

“A lot of those folks were working hard under enormous pressure and are real patriots.”

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. No one who tortures in the name of the United States is a patriot in my mind. They are just criminals in with authority.

When are they going to jail Mr. Obama?

Or, do we excuse wife beaters because they were under enormous pressure? Do we excuse rapists because they were really horny?

We did not excuse Sgt. Robert Bales or the men and women running Abu Graib like a gulag. I bet they were all under just as much or more pressure as CIA scumbags waterboarding men with no actual proof they did anything wrong. And how about Bush? Whatever pressure he was under was surely mitigated by having round the clock body guards, living far away from all the trouble in his own country, dining on luxurious food each and every day.

When do I get to see Bush in the dock?

4 ( +7 / -3 )

@Sidekick Got at least one Russian who generalizes from a few bad incidents in one country in order to tarnish the idea of democracy the world over.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@scipantheist I cannot say I have all the truth and numbers at my disposal. I have noticed that nasty people work really hard to hide all their nasty business. Some WWII secrets are still secret. Freaking incredible in a so-called democracy.

Yes, Russia has a long history of torture and murder. The trouble is, so does America. Its a hell of a lot more than "a few incidents". America did not get from sea to shining sea by throwing roses at people. Hawaii was not a gift. And now the American military is literally all over the globe. They did not get there by supporting saints in foreign governments nor with hugs and kisses. They got there through murder and torture and supporting people known to do both. There is no sugar coating it or downplaying until its less stinky, like Obama using words such as "few" and "folks".

Anyone attempting to downplay it should be tortured frankly and by someone else who downplays it. Then maybe some learning will occur.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Not all violations of the treaty are treated equally. The most serious crimes are termed grave breaches, and provide a legal definition of a war crime. Grave breaches of the Third and Fourth Geneva Conventions include the following acts if committed against a person protected by the convention:

Read the last sentence, it says "committed against a person protected by the convention." Not all persons are protected by the Geneva Convention. Uniformed soldiers are protected, civilians are protected, but spies and terrorists are not protected, or are soldiers who pretend to be civilians.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

It opens the door to send "W" and Cheney to The Hague for war crime trials. Don't see a downside in that.

That torture doesn't work needs to be addressed.

Once you open that door, you'll never ever get reliable information again.

We all knew what wrongs were done in the USA's name - now it's out in the open. We can't pretend it didn't happen.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

sangetsu03Aug. 02, 2014 - 06:18PM JST Read the last sentence, it says "committed against a person protected by the convention." Not all persons are protected by the Geneva Convention. Uniformed soldiers are protected, civilians are protected, but spies and terrorists are not protected, or are soldiers who pretend to be civilians.

And who decides who is a terrorist in the U.S.? Until recently it was a top secret decision made behind closed doors on the basis of third hand reports and speculation that landed someone in Guantanemo bay. When the U.S. courts were FINALLY allowed to see the "evidence" (so much for separation of powers in the U.S.) they found the evidence insufficient to convict the VAST majority (more than 90%) of the people.

That makes these people innocent civilians, and the torture of them a war crime. So why aren't the torturers being charged?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Political correctness demands that he not say so, but what needs to be said is that Republicans, Cheney and Bush, were the ones behind the push to abandon the Geneva Accords.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

seren

Chopping off someone's head isn't actually torture, just murder, plain and simple.

Simple? Then it should apply to water boarding as well, you are fine, not torture, simple.

Now the US admits to torturing people, what a great example to set for other countries. Kind of makes it hard for the US to lecture other countries about human rights, doesn't it? Anyway, at least Obama is being more open about it than his idiotic predecessor.

The idiot remark should go to the current CIC.

@jamez

For one if your occupation is somehow involved with waterboarding or those who conduct it like you seem to be implying (otherwise what relevance would that comment have?) then I could imagine with that bias you'd be downplaying its harm to ease your psyche and reduce your sense of culpability. Otherwise, even if you just "know" about it I still sincerely doubt you've ever had the enemy do it to you to even begin to say how it feels!

Hmmmm, you are way, way off dude, really.

@crush

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. No one who tortures in the name of the United States is a patriot in my mind. They are just criminals in with authority.

By your standards?

When are they going to jail Mr. Obama?

I ask myself that question every single day!

We did not excuse Sgt. Robert Bales or the men and women running Abu Graib like a gulag. I bet they were all under just as much or more pressure as CIA scumbags waterboarding men with no actual proof they did anything wrong. And how about Bush? Whatever pressure he was under was surely mitigated by having round the clock body guards, living far away from all the trouble in his own country, dining on luxurious food each and every day.

I think the terrorists were in a good place, the other alternative could have been to have a bullet logged in their brain. What's the problem?

When do I get to see Bush in the dock?

Never will happen, thank god.

-12 ( +0 / -12 )

And who decides who is a terrorist in the U.S.? Until recently it was a top secret decision made behind closed doors on the basis of third hand reports and speculation that landed someone in Guantanemo bay

Generally these are not people who are picked up in the middle of the night in their homes. Nearly all were captured in fighting, or in the midst of operations. The US doesn't want to capture or torture people who haven't done anything, or don't know anything. What would be the point in doing that? The fact that a great deal of valid information was gained during the "detainee" program shows that many of those captured (if not most, or all) had done something, or did know something.

Most of the world is not a fantasyland where laws are written in black and white, where mere words written on paper carry more weight that mere words on paper. Most of the world still lives according to the "law of the jungle", where force, violence, or the threat thereof are the only things respected.

Take a walk through some of these cities and countries if you dare. It is easy to criticise and voice opinions when one has spent one's life living in countries were the word and letter of written laws are generally respected and obeyed. But anyone who has not been to places where such is not the case should not have their opinions on these matters taken seriously. You cannot apply the rules we respect and live by to others to whom they are as alien as martians. Lawless people can only be controlled through lawless action. Two wrongs do not make right, but if they prevent further wrongs, then such may be the only option.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

We tortured some folks

That's all: folks!

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I wouldn't use the word "folks" for these terrorists who were waterboarded.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Complete and utter misinformation.

sangetsu03Aug. 02, 2014 - 07:00PM JST Generally these are not people who are picked up in the middle of the night in their homes. Nearly all were captured in fighting, or in the midst of operations.

That's why many of the suspects were found to be doing nothing more offensive than driving a taxi or going to work, or otherwise being guilty of nothing more than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The US doesn't want to capture or torture people who haven't done anything, or don't know anything. What would be the point in doing that?

The point? Terror. A display of Power. The knowledge that anyone, anywhere can be picked up, detained, tortured and even killed because the United States of America says so.

The ultimate irony of the war on terror is that the U.S. has become the greatest terrorist in the world.

The fact that a great deal of valid information was gained during the "detainee" program shows that many of those captured (if not most, or all) had done something, or did know something.

Yes, they picked up a couple of real terrorists, because even a broken clock is right twice a day. That doesn't justify the other 90% who were completely innocent of any wrongdoing.

Or the thousands who have been killed in drone strikes because they were attending the wedding of a cousin who happened to have another cousin who was a terrorist.

By that logic if 270 people in the twin towers were guilty of some crime against Muslims then the twin towers bombing was COMPLETELY justified in your opinion. And I'm sure if we dug deep enough we could find some dirt on 270 of the 2700 people in that tower that linked back to crimes against Muslims.

Of course no human being should use that logic, because it is a war crime. But the hypocrisy here is that you're just fine with it when the U.S. does it, but no-one else should.

Hypocrite.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Obama is only tring to put the blame on someone else becuase he is a coward to do anything just like now when the US should be it Iraq with the full force of the U.S. Military and stop the killing of civilians weman and children and put a stop to that invading force that force has found the weapons that The US could not find and they will join Iran then Iran will give them atomic Weapons and they will use them on anyone at anytime. I will not lison to Obama putting the blame on anyone just to direct the attention away from himself.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

“We did a whole lot of things that were right, but we tortured some folks. We did some things that were contrary to our values,” Obama told a White House news conference,:

“It’s important for us not to feel too sanctimonious in retrospect about the tough job that those folks had,” he said. “A lot of those folks were working hard under enormous pressure and are real patriots.”

Now I am just confused.

some folks were tortured some folks had a tough job a lot of folks were working hard and are patriots
2 ( +2 / -0 )

Obama is only tring to put the blame on someone else becuase he is a coward to do anything just like now when the US should be it Iraq with the full force of the U.S. Military and stop the killing of civilians weman and children and put a stop to that invading force that force has found the weapons that The US could not find and they will join Iran then Iran will give them atomic Weapons and they will use them on anyone at anytime. I will not lison to Obama putting the blame on anyone just to direct the attention away from himself

bootht -- sheer nonsense. The fact is that GW was President when this happened, so if blame is to be assessed it naturally falls on him. Obama does not, and did not, have to state it. Second, the U.S. should have never been in Iraq in the first place, and do go back in now would just be wasting more precious lives. That "invading force" you are referencing only succeeded because Malaki could not govern over the peaceful country that Obama left him. He refused to provide the Shia minority enough voice in the government, and this is the result. So Obama sending in troops to help him would be widely seen as just us siding with the Sunni's, which would be bad for overall relations in the region. Thirdly, Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons so please stop peddling looney nonsense. Finally, the word is "listen", not "lison". And I think I'll listen to someone at least capable of spelling it correctly.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

This therad is filled with so much vitriol over what should be a very simple thing:

America signed on to specific documents, creating an international agreement to abandon torture. America is stating, publicly, that it has utterly ignored those agreements (not just a rouge individual, but an actual process to do torture).

While I wholeheartedly agree terrorists deserve a very special place in hell and even see the value in torturing them to save American lives, it is something that America has made a commitment NOT to do.

Therefore either

A) America needs to full-stop torture and go with pre-agreed upon things

or

B) Back out/cancel/leave whatever agreements they are currently bound to.

This should be very black and white. How can America criticize other countries for ignoring agreements (eg. Japan -> Whaling) when they are doing this?

5 ( +7 / -2 )

http://www.npr.org/iraq/2004/prisonabusereport.pdf

badsey, a very good catch!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taguba_Report (see links to other reports on bottom and compare to this one)

Because he was from the Philippines maybe he had a higher standard, but mostly this report corresponds to the torture pictures that were widely published. =almost certainly the torture was much worse than reported. =still the best report that came out of this white-wash.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

'When do I get to see Bush in the dock?

Never will happen, thank god.'

According to Bush, god told him to invade Iraq. Maybe Bush could get off on a plea of insanity having heard voices in his head or an IQ too low to see him prosecuted.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Interesting that water boarding was regarded as torture in 1945 and Japanese POWs who had performed this were executed for the crime. Yet strangely, the same action described as an "advanced interrogation technique" when performed on "terrorists" or "suspected terrorists" by the US is acceptable.

Double standards?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

6 ( +6 / -0 )

At least the U.S. Government is investigating and making their findings open for public debate and international review. That doesn't excuse what has gone on before, but it is an attempt to move forward with the goal of never allowing torture to be used again. For those commenters here who come off a bit sanctimonious, I would suggest you learn the history of your own countries and governments. I don't think anyone can claim the moral high ground; we all have blood on our hands. It's where we go from here that counts.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@bertie

Interesting that water boarding was regarded as torture in 1945 and Japanese POWs who had performed this were executed for the crime.

Exactly! As you said, WAS

Yet strangely, the same action described as an "advanced interrogation technique" when performed on "terrorists" or "suspected terrorists" by the US is acceptable.

Yes or do you think if we make a turkey sandwich and ask terrorists nicely to divulge pertinent information, they will willingly give it to us, right?

Double standards?

No, because it helped us get OBL. Khalid Sheik Muhammed is doing fine, so much so, he can barely walk that chunky scum. They should cut back on that prison chow a bit.

@jim

According to Bush, god told him to invade Iraq. Maybe Bush could get off on a plea of insanity having heard voices in his head or an IQ too low to see him prosecuted.

Oh, stop. Bush will never see a day in jail, nor should he. I know it irks you libs, which makes me smile all the more.

And Obama has a high IQ and what did we get for it these last 6 years? ROFLMAO

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

At least the U.S. Government is investigating and making their findings open for public debate and international review. That doesn't excuse what has gone on before, but it is an attempt to move forward with the goal of never allowing torture to be used again. For those commenters here who come off a bit sanctimonious, I would suggest you learn the history of your own countries and governments. I don't think anyone can claim the moral high ground; we all have blood on our hands. It's where we go from here that counts.

Yardley -- spot on. Soul-searching should be a big part of any society's character, because, as you say, all countries "have blood on their hands" in some respect. Great countries are the ones who learn from their mistakes by putting them under the spotlight, rather than trying to hide them.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Lawless people can only be cotrolled through lawless actions.

Whom you're talking about, the U.S. leadership?

The point? Terror. A Display of Power. The knowledge that anyone, anywhere can be picked up, detained, tortured and even killed because the United States of America say so.

It may cause deadly consequences for the U.S. citizens all around the World.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

You have this "open tyranny" coming out right now. =Yes, we spy on everybody (NSA + contractors). Yes, I send out drones and that kill people even whole families (Obama). Yes, we lied about Benghazi. We are putting fluoride in your water with a multitude of other chemicals. This is why we need to attack Syria and Russia right now.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

If it is "torture" why is Obama torturing the special operations personnel in the military as a part of their training? So Obama wants to protect terrorists but has no problem torturing American military men and women.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

If it is "torture" why is Obama torturing the special operations personnel in the military as a part of their training? So Obama wants to protect terrorists but has no problem torturing American military men and women.

Stop Wolf!! You're using too much rational sense, something that most liberals have a problem utilizing when disseminating the facts.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

WolfpackAug. 03, 2014 - 07:16AM JST If it is "torture" why is Obama torturing the special operations personnel in the military as a part of their training? So Obama wants to protect terrorists but has no problem torturing American military men and women.

Ah, you're referring to SERE program which includes a very short period (48 hours) of anti-interrogation training, surrounded by strict rules about what is or is not acceptable. A program where only the toughest candidates volunteer with the full knowledge of what they're going to be put through and the knowledge that thousands of soldiers have graduated safely from the program. A program where water-boarding has just been banned because it was deemed too dangerous and psychologically damaging?

... and you're comparing that to the experience of some innocent civilian who's kidnapped, detained for years being tortured on a daily basis and has no information to give, and has no idea how far the soldiers can or will go, and lives in fear of their life.

Yeah, that's a good comparison.... NOT.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

"Unless the law deems it 'necessary' for the purpose of producing cheap meat, or to test the toxicity of chemicals, or the virulence of viruses, or the efficacy of pesticides. The Humane Cosmetics Act, to ban the use of animal testing in..."

Off topic. This has nothing to do with the article, does it? Moderator?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

but they are the first people that want justice if someone was hurt in their family, that is real double standard

There is a very big difference between justice and torture. The latter is a pointless act of monstrosity.

but the Jihadists don't belong in that category

So you're saying that Jihadists aren't living beings? So are they robots then? This isn't Terminator. The Jihadists (or any terrorist for that matter) are living beings. They are Humans, with Human Rights. Torture is a despicable act that goes against the Geneva Convention. President Obama has basically admitted that the CIA has broken the laws of the Geneva Convention. By international law, those responsible for carrying out the torture should be punished to the fullest extent. But that would be too much to even hope for. The CIA will say that they are "handling the matter internally". People will protest, but the power brokers all seem to be pro-torture, so nothing will come about of this. Such is the sorry state of the world.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Important detail; President Obama tell of what the US/CIA did following 9/11. Remember; he was NOT president at that time.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Frungy:

... and you're comparing that to the experience of some innocent civilian who's kidnapped, detained for years being tortured on a daily basis and has no information to give, and has no idea how far the soldiers can or will go, and lives in fear of their life.

The mastermind behind 9/11 an innocent civilian? That's a joke!

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

WolfpackAug. 04, 2014 - 05:12AM JST The mastermind behind 9/11 an innocent civilian? That's a joke!

Actually I was referring to 90% of the detainees at Gauntanemo bay, who were found innocent by US courts of law.

Although even if it had just been one innocent civilian it would have been enough, but that it was 90% just shows the callous and misguided nature of the people running the thing, aided and abetted by equally misguided individuals who never questioned their government.

German soldiers weren't allowed the excuse that "They were just following orders", and neither should U.S. soldiers.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Off topic. This has nothing to do with the article, does it? Moderator?

It was a response to the obviously incorrect claim that American values do not allow the torture of animals or any living things. and as such is very much on topic. It seems some foreigners - those who happen to come from/live near other foreigners who might be Bad Men - have no more rights in American eyes than a bird, pig or cow that has the misfortune to taste good, or a chimp that has the misfortune to share enough of our DNA to make it look like they're good substitutes in medical tests, or a rabbit that has the misfortune to have sensitive eyes and is small enough to be easily strapped down while mascara, shampoo and tanning lotion are applied to their eyeballs.

If you want to refute my claim that the claim is incorrect, by all means do so. But don't go crying to the Mod. It's his job to determine what's on and off topic, not yours.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Uniformed soldiers are protected, civilians are protected, but spies and terrorists are not protected, or are soldiers who pretend to be civilians.

They're not protected from execution or other penalties under the Geneva convention, but everyone is protected from torture, regardless of who.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Folks is not an appropriate word to use when talking about this. Unless you're doing a George W Bush impression.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Folks is not an appropriate word to use when talking about this. Unless you're doing a George W Bush impression.

It would probably fit better to the current commander in chief, seems more appropriate.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

"we tortured some folks, oh well, sorry."

He is speaking about violation of human rights like if he were saying "I broke this toy, oh well, sorry".

0 ( +0 / -0 )

protected person to serve in the armed forces

Some posters prefer to cherry pick their defense. Unfortunately this always leads to a failed debate.

President Obama is NOT responsible for the torture of those captives.

I'm happy to point the finger at that cocaine snorting, alcoholic George W Bush who invaded without proof of WMDs.

But lets stay on topic. Were they soldiers that formally declared war on the United States? Were they representing a government of a recognized nation?

The answer to both of these questions is NO. However, we Americans still believe in humane treatment of prisoners. Even if they are illegal combatants. With that said......this is NOT a war crime but we recognize it's inhumane nevertheless.

So get your facts straight before you go talking about war crimes. There were war crimes committed but right now you:re barking up the wrong tree. His name is BUSH.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Frungy Aug. 04, 2014 - 06:48AM JST

Actually I was referring to 90% of the detainees at Gauntanemo bay, who were found innocent by US courts of law.

Actually the illegal combatants at Gitmo were never tried in an American court. You don't know what you are talking about.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Bertie Wooster:

Japanese POWs who had performed this were executed for the crime

Counterpoint to your claim at links below. Several top Japanese military/political leaders were executed at the IMTFE. Somehow this got transmogrified in the MMS and blogosphere to 'Japanese POWs were executed by USA for waterboarding'.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/180923/sorry-paul-begala-youre-still-wrong/mark-hemingway

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2009/04/24/did-cnns-paul-begala-mangle-facts-waterboarding-history

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Military_Tribunal_for_the_Far_East

The indictment accused the defendants of promoting a scheme of conquest that "contemplated and carried out...murdering, maiming and ill-treating prisoners of war (and) civilian internees...forcing them to labor under inhumane conditions...plundering public and private property, wantonly destroying cities, towns and villages beyond any justification of military necessity; (perpetrating) mass murder, rape, pillage, brigandage, torture and other barbaric cruelties upon the helpless civilian population of the over-run countries."

0 ( +0 / -0 )

lolol wow i'm sorry but the American government are the real terrorist because they are providing the exact terrorist with their own american weapons etc. please do your research. don't believe in cnn and mainstream media. Americans and internationally, we are waking up. infowars, greenwavetv Hard-hitting and in your face

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Everyone seems obsessed with discussing whether torture is right or wrong. Let me ask this question:

Did we obtain good enough information through these technicques, that we were able to foil other attacks?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

It would probably fit better to the current commander in chief, seems more appropriate.

Just a few more years of Obama and the real torture will finally be over.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The use of torture, which is a violation of both US and international law and which represented an abandoning of long-charished American ideals that go back to George Washington who forbid his army to abuse captive enemy prisoners.

The use of torture was a top-down decision that originated in the office of VP Cheney and was supported by Pres GW Bush, Sec of Defense Rumsfeld and various others in the administration. It started at Gitmo and spread to Iraq and was conducted by both the CIA and the military. The FBI resisted it and for that reason was shut out of the interrogations in spite of the fact that they had the most qualified interrogators.

The administration had a team of lawyers, mainly David Addington, who was VP Cheney's legal consul and John Yoo, Deputy Chief in the Justice Department's Office of Legal Consul who produced, er, tortured legal opinions that attempted to justify the illegal practices.

Many lawyers opposed the policy, most notably Alberto Mora, the General Consul of the US Navy. For their opposition, opponents were simply cut out of the loop to keep their dissenting opinions out of the papers.

Of course, when the torture at Abu Grave was exposed, those at the top used their power to limit punishment to the lowest ranks of enlisted soldiers.

Learn more about this sordid chapter in American History by reading The Dark Side by Jane Mayer (Anchor Books, 2009).

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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