Senate struggles on Obama's economic stimulus bill

McCain’s penchant for working across party lines has irritated fellow Republicans in the past, but he was not taking part in bipartisan talks on trimming the stimulus bill.

Of course not. He's rather see nothing go through, then something that the republicans can't hold their tax breaks in.

Nearly 20 senators from both parties met twice during the day and reviewed a list of possible cuts totaling nearly $80 billion. They included elimination of at least $40 billion in aid to the states

States are screaming for help. California is sinking fast, for one.

Part of the problem is that not all this money needs to be given away. Loan some of this money out. Loan it to the states and corporations that want the bailouts.

This will never get republican support. The best thing that Obama can hope on is republicans that break away from the republican leadership. < :-)

Senate moderates worked to cut tens of billions of dollars from the economic stimulus bill

With all this varnish coming off his "stimulus package" Obama still gets up in front of the cameras and say that this package needs to be passed or we might never recover from the recession.

Is he that arrogant to think that we don't know that it's not a stimulus, but rather a pork laden, pay-off-your-buddies package?

States are screaming for help. California is sinking fast, for one" Yeah, and the mayor of L.A. wants money to build a leash less dog park

I think the die hard supporters of this bill have not, don't want to, seen what is being requested. oink, oink!

Of the great check bouncer, Sen. Boxer, had to put it to the repubs about what GWB's bills were like, typical of her kind.

I don't see what the big rush is to sign this bill. The bulk of the $900 million doesn't get spent until the 2010-2012 period. This is another attempt to stampede the responsible members of Congress into signing a bad bill loaded with non-stimulus items like global warming studies and financing for green energy projects. This is a repeat of the $700 million dollar package that was rushed through in the fall.

there are far too many things not related to the economy in this bill. Addtionally, wanting to increase corporate taxes only gets pushed back on us. It hardly help spending.

I think perhaps Obama should enlist the help of a group like Robert Mugabe's ZANFU part in Zimbabwe. They would probably be more helpful than the Republican party is at getting this bailout aid to Americans...

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/feb/03/jon-kyl/stimulus-plan-includes-plan-compensate-filipino-ve/

I thought there was money in the stimulus package for the Filipino Vets. I was wrong. Except for not wanting a stimulus package, what pork is in it that shouldn't be? < :-)

Obama is proving, something half of the U.S. already knew, that he is an unfortunate mix of arrogance and naivete...

what pork is in it that shouldn't be?

$125 billion for public education including $20 billion for school renovations and $79 billion to avoid education related layoffs not an economic stimulus. If they change the name then fine

$87 billion for Medicaid ?

$30 billion goes to road projects ? how many of you hve experience with gov/state contracts?

$27 billion to continue unemployment insurance benefits this is ok

$20 billion for food stamps ? Of course, we could go back to work for welfare...

$8 billion for renewable energies they are pushing the little guys out of the picture.

$7 billion for modernizing federal buildings ? yup, just keep letting that big government build and build their fat butts. this also includes new furniture, even PS3's

$6 billion for mass transit

$5 billion for for the construction and repair of public housing

$4 billion for community activist programs such as ACORN Now do you see what some are upset about

$2 billion for child care subsidies for who? No one's working?

$650 million for coupons for digital TV conversions I already explained this.

$400 million for global warming research why must this be here now? Should be a separate bill

$335 million for STD prevention Nothing like the gov telling how to hve sex.

$50 million for National Endowment of the Arts Not to mention that those who run the NEA are some of the richest people around. It had survived on donations which those rich gated community whites wrote off in taxes.

* Republicans pushed the Democrats into dropping money for family planning and restoration of the National Mall * The WSJ estimates that just 12% of the package could be considered a growth stimulus

$275 billion in new tax cuts

$145 billion: Tax cuts for 95% of working Americans, $500 for individuals, $1000 for couples and small business for 2 years good and sensible

$23 billion: $1000 per child tax credit good and sensible but could be more

$20 billion for company equipment write offs good and sensible instead of them turning their costs onto us

$16 billion in “green” tax credits not good and not sensible

$10 billion: $2500 credit for college that's it?

$6.9 billion for homeowner tax credits how are they going to distribute it?

for those of you who have the time, go to http://www.scribd.com/doc/11474954/House-Stimulus-Bill. YOu can read the entire thing. Its long

I also forgot to mention a huge amount that goes to Hollywood. How about caping those salaries?

Democratic leadership is an oxymoron.

The WSJ estimates that just 12% of the package could be considered a growth stimulus repeat The WSJ estimates that just 12% of the package could be considered a growth stimulus repeat The WSJ estimates that just 12% of the package could be considered a growth stimulus

Get the picture aday?

I think that skipthesong has a little maybe that he agrees with in the stimulus package. He even listed the tax cuts as pork in the package:

$275 billion in new tax cuts

$145 billion: Tax cuts for 95% of working Americans, $500 for individuals, $1000 for couples and small business for 2 years good and sensible

$23 billion: $1000 per child tax credit good and sensible but could be more

So besides skipthesong, who doesn't like the entire package, what is wrong with it? < :-)

skipthesong,

Again I'll ask the hitherto unanswered question, what is the Republican alternative?

aday, what? this is called an economic stimulus package. What part of only 12% of the package is actually going to help the economy?

And why must all those things like NEA and ACORN be a part of it now?

$4 billion for community activist programs such as ACORN Now do you see what some are upset about

The words "activist" and "ACORN" are nowhere to be found in the bill. What has got the right-wingers' undies in a bind is the section formally titled: Neighborhood Stabilization Program. The purpose of the funding in this section is for the redevelopment of abandoned and foreclosed homes. If an organization can demonstrate they can renovate abandoned or foreclosed houses to be used as housing, they can apply for funds under the program.

The right-wingers fail to state how this applies to ACORN. It's more up the alley of Habitat for Humanity, but right-wingers depend on people not checking up on their claims.

And why must all those things like NEA and ACORN be a part of it now?

Because Republicans have to tell lies to get people upset about things that are not in the bill.

Wall Street Journal? Get real.

Again I'll ask the hitherto unanswered question, what is the Republican alternative? I don't know and I don't care. That is not my point.

Look, I could care less what the repubs come up with as it won't matter. Now quit acting like a kid and get down to business. We need to just focus on what the Dems are putting out as that is what is going to be the final.

yabits: $4 billion for community activist programs such as ACORN" YOu are not finding it because you are not looking at it right. Don't just use the search and find control. If you are looking for the word ACORN, you're not gong to find it. Look at the spread sheet provided. Then look at what ACORN is all about.

Wall Street Journal? Get real." then put up another one.

First let me start with the ACORN claim. Not a dollar is going to ACORN.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/feb/02/john-boehner/theory-acorn-could-compete-some-home-rebuilding-mo/

40%

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28811470/

I'm sure you can find another one that says some lesser amount, but I don't want to read any republican jargon tonight.

I'm sure there are going to be things that get through, but I'd rather put forward $800Billion now and get the economy going in the right direction then wait another 6 months and have to put forth $1.2Trillion, my opinated quote. < :-)

skipthesong doesn't care about an alternative package, he just doesn't want to help the economy at all. He likes it just the way it is.

Is that it skipthesong?

Are you against any effort to help the economy?

Or is it because Obama is the president and he'll get credit for repairing what You Know Who did? < :-)

The Porkulus is dragging Obama's "popularity" ratings down.

aday, what are you just trying to imply? My point is if you are going to use tax money on an economic stimulus plan, then put the plan up. Don't start throwing everything including the kitchen sink, which is what you will see if you bother reading though it. Get off the Bush trip - I din't vote for him. Get off the repub trip, I already stated I could care less what they put out as it is moot. Then I get told to screw off becuase I put up a spot from WSJ and only then to be turned on to NBC, which you have to be kidding me.

Ok, let's play a bit of romper room. How about you put up what parts of this bill are actually going to help the economy. Tell me how even half of what is in there is going to do a damn thing.

Or is it because Obama is the president and he'll get credit for repairing what You Know Who did? < :-)" do you realize how immature you look right now?

I don't get it,excessive government spending by a Republican president and a combination of Republican and Democratic Congress got us into this mess and excessive government spending by a Democratic President and Democratic Congress is going to get us out of it. It can only make sense to those who blindly follow their crooked political party of choice. Anybody who thinks Obama and the Democrats are putting the country over their special interests are delusional.

"more bad news to come"

Hope! Change!

skipthesong - I've taken your list and only posted those items that I would leave on there. Some mey need to be tweeked some.

I'm sure we'll disagree, but that's my quick reply. < :-)

$125 billion for public education including $20 billion for school renovations and $79 billion to avoid education related layoffs

$87 billion for Medicaid

$30 billion goes to road projects

$27 billion to continue unemployment insurance benefits

$20 billion for food stamps

$8 billion for renewable energies

$5 billion for for the construction and repair of public housing

$2 billion for child care subsidies for who

$400 million for global warming research

$335 million for STD prevention

$50 million for National Endowment of the Arts

$275 billion in new tax cuts

$145 billion: Tax cuts for 95% of working Americans, $500 for individuals, $1000 for couples and small business for 2 years

$23 billion: $1000 per child tax credit

$10 billion: $2500 credit for college

$6.9 billion for homeowner tax credits

let the meladrama or should I say, let the politcs of fear begin. next thing off obama's lips will be some sort of we need to do it now or else we will lose our opportunity to ever fix the economy. Thank godness the democrats lectured everyone about the politics of fear over the last 8 years so we know what it looks like.

I was looking at

http://www.mgwashington.com/index.php/news/article/stimulus-plan-includes-billions-for-new-construction-jobs-and-tax-cuts/2461/

and the more I see the more I like the plan.

Yeah, I agree that we should never be here. But we are. And if we do nothing as some would like we just lose more jobs, more businesses and more families. More homes will go into foreclosure (than should) and less money is being spent. Without money being spent and jobs being created and vise versa, it's not going to get better.

It's still going to get worse before it gets better. Did you hear all the job cuts announced this week alone? I'm just glad I'm retired. < :-)

"Regardless of the differing ideas about the details of the recovery bill, there's one thing that most of us can agree about: the Republicans can't be trusted on the economy and they can't be trusted to meddle with the recovery bill. I mean, they met with Joe the Plumber on the Hill this week to discuss the economy. They should be summarily shut out of this process -- whether or not the president wants them out. The Republicans have zero cred."

www.huffingtonpost.com/

the only struggle I'm hearing about is how to keep the French and Japanese hands off the money !

Hey aday, I hope you don't run your business like that. Why don't you look at the excel sheet they have up and break each item down. but, out of respect:

$125 billion for public education including $20 billion for school renovations" and $79 billion to avoid education related layoffs Ok, what is up with the other 26 Billion? And, now that my sister is a teacher in a public school and meeting up with her friends who are teachers, man lay them off! Flush the system out. And, I can understand structures, but what I can't understand is that the US isn't even teaching the main subjects any more!

$87 billion for Medicaid" Again, for the old and disabled and children, no problems. But they should start that work for welfare program again.

$30 billion goes to road projects" Yeah, and who fixes the roads? Unions. You are giving the uniions power.

$27 billion to continue unemployment insurance benefits" If people paid into their own, this wouldn't be an issue.

$20 billion for food stamps" same as the medicade.

$8 billion for renewable energies" And which companies? Why can't I get one of those government contracts?

$5 billion for for the construction and repair of public housing" we shouldn't even go there.

$2 billion for child care subsidies for who" who what? working?

$400 million for global warming research? I am sure they will only select those who agree. No room for any debates.

$335 million for STD prevention" That's a lot of condoms.

$50 million for National Endowment of the Arts" Don't you dare get me on this. This is disgusting.

$275 billion in new tax cuts" Over what?

$145 billion: Tax cuts for 95% of working Americans, $500 for individuals, $1000 for couples and small business for 2 years" cheap!

$23 billion: $1000 per child tax credit Cheap!

$10 billion: $2500 credit for college cap the tuition rates!

$6.9 billion for homeowner tax credits" all of them?

Shameless, lying, thieving weasels.

Obama's crony pals back in Chicago refuse to release stimulus project list.

“Yes, we do, we have our list, we’ve been talking to people. We did not put that out publicly because once you start putting it out publicly, you know, the newspapers, the media is going to be ripping it apart,” Daley said.

http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/clout_st/2009/02/daley-refuses-to-release-stimulus-project-list.html

I don't get it,excessive government spending by a Republican president and a combination of Republican and Democratic Congress got us into this mess...

That certainly is a bizarre rewrite of history, since the Republicans controlled Congress from 1994 up until 2006, and the previous Republican president inherited a balanced federal budget and projected surpluses in the year 2001. Intelligent people will recall that, in 2000, candidate George W. Bush promised the American people that he could maintain the surplus and give the American people a $1.7 trillion tax cut since HE was going to limit discretionary federal spending to the levels set by his predecessor. He lied then, and he lied throughout.

Returning to the stimulus bill, there is a saying: "Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way." Republicans have shown they are not fit to lead on this stimulus package or on anything else. All they know how to do is obfuscate and obstruct. So my advice to them is to follow or get the hell out of the way.

The way the Republicans keep stalling and foot-dragging on the stimulus bill in light of the oncoming economic abyss is nothing short of all-too-typical for them.

It's as if someone handed them a report titled "Bin Laden Planning an Attack on America" and they decided to tune it out in order to increase their attacks on Democrats.

its funny, obama ran on change but look at what he is doing, he is throwing money on the same old failed institutions containing deeply rooted systemic problems that have been draining our tax dollars for years. the billions for the colossal failure called Amtrack is one of many examples of wasting money we don't have on something that can only be described as a bottomless pit. This is not a stimulus package, this is greasy foul smelling political payback scandal that puts any senator voting for it outside the Northeast and West Coast in a vulnerable spot, not with the special interest groups awaiting their payback, but with ordinary citizens who question whether Obama and the Democrats really mean what they say.

With the Democrats in full control its not going to be hard to lay blame where blame is due. In less than two years the the American public gets a chance to voice their agreement or disagreement. A short time after that the country is back in full presidential campaign mode again. Obama better hope his porkulus package does make a difference or at the very least, don't make things worse then they already are.

Sez, Funny you should ask about how the republicans would trim the "pork."

When given the opportunity to cut the wasteful spending they complain about and "the right" shrieks crazily about, House republicans came up with this, that can be seen at the following:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/02/gop.stimulus.worries/index.html

Some quick math will tell you that they wanted to eliminate $18.7 billion. A lot of money, to be certain, but it accounts for approximately 2% of the total stimulus plan, which rings in at $884.5 billion. They were OK with the other 98%.

That's a lot of shrieking for very little change. And we complain about the poor acting performances out of Hollywood!

Taka

The package doesn't seem too bad overall. And debate for something like this is healthy. I don't think it will be too long before a compromise is reached.

I think the republicans will hold out to the end and maybe a few will support the package. Where Barack Obama wanted to offer a package that would help all Americans, while the republican proposal offered tax cuts and not much more. Didn't have money in it to get the jobs we need.

Our unemployment rate just hit 7.5%.

Republican's proposal won't get the jobs needed. It's only to give the haves more money. < :-)

From Mark Belling:

"The fact that there was a total meltdown, starting with subprime loans, and erase any other success that the American corporate engine has ever created. Corporate America's the reason we have a standard of living that we've had. While we are in a recession, we can't use that as an excuse to entirely throw out the entire notion of private management of private business, and put them all underneath the thumb of the government. By that standard, then, anytime any business is in bad shape, we're going to have the government come in and run it. There's nothing but trouble that's going to come from that."

Who disagrees with this?

I disagree with that Sarge. It's not just one business that has lost it's way. It's not just one company that fell to the trappings of idiots, the whole business did and some are on the road to bankruptsy. Their prone position begging for money only goes to show that their way hasn't proved a model for success.

If they didn't have to borrow money to save their business and protect investors, then they can run the business the same old way, but they are begging for money. So they have to follow the rules to get the money. Once it's paid back, I hope they learn where they failed before. < :-)

"Who disagrees with this?"

"The fact that there was a total meltdown, starting with subprime loans"

Me maybe! Do some simple research and you will see I'm right. Bush visited Saudie Arabia in January of '08, his concern was skyrocketing oil prices, then at just over $90 a barrel. The Saudies gave Bush some lip service, sent him on his way, then made a token effort to lower prices... realised in February at 86$ a barrel... then something happened. Seems the OPEC nations got together and, well, err, umm... decided to screw the world !

Over the next few weeks and months oil prices slowly crept up... hovering around the magic $100 a barrel zone... which was achieved by mid March. Prices bounced around this level for a few weeks then bang... $100 plus was the norm as market forces failed to correct the problem. And in April both the Dow Jones Industrial and OPEC generated oil prices converged on two fronts. A consistent price of oil over $100 a barrel and the final peak of the Dow Jones at just over 13,000 ! The rest is history. The Dow Jones plummets as oil prices hit $137 a barrel, with talk of $160... and this is still in the late spring and early summer months. By July the Dow has lost 2,000 points and Americans are staying home for the summer... the damage is done ! It's a free fall from there as speculators can't sell fast enough, realising the summer is lost... this in turn affects the housing industry as summer is the peak season for home building. The Dow continues to fall and from September 8th to October 11 loses almost 3,000 points... it's at this time that the term "sub prime loan" is introduced to the world ! Those are the facts, the world economic crisis was triggered by high oil prices and OPEC's decision to manipulate supplies. Sorry of they don't mesh with many of you out there who simply want to blame the USA for everything. The charts and dates are all out there for those of you who wish to know the truth.

The spike and theft through the oil market was conducted by people in the same manner as the Enron collapse. And we saw Enron eventually crash.

We were robbed by speculist who were successful in pushing the prices up in an effort to line their pockets and steal from the American public.

It wasn't OPEC on their own. < :-)

The Dow continues to fall and from September 8th to October 11 loses almost 3,000 points... it's at this time that the term "sub prime loan" is introduced to the world !

October 11th, 2008? Which world are you living in?

President Obama: "I found this national debt, doubled, wrapped in a big bow waiting for me when I stepped into the Oval office."

Come on, Mr. President, your party had nothing to do with this?

I agree with Sarge. If a business is mishandled it will die, whether slowly or quickly but it will die, and when that happens sombody smarter, better, and more profitable will take its place. Thats how a free market works, it doesn't promise success only the right to compete. What is happening now is flipping that logic upside down claiming that if a business is mishandled it can go to the goverments waiting arms with sweet promises of doing better next time. What this results in is the retardation of prosperous business and the stagnation of the market. If you let one of these finaincial giants fall flat on its face a thousand other firms will pick its body apart and thrive, but as it stands we are stuck with a half-dead company thats essentially being forced to live on even though its usefullness to the market has expired. It simply not good business.

Re: Sarge's post.

What does that have to do with the stimulus bill? The stimulus bill does not contain any provisions to "entirely throw out the entire notion of private management of private business."

"October 11, 2008? Which world are you living in?"

Incredible, isn't it?

yabits: The simulus bill itself essentially strips the businesses it helps of any sembelance of self control. The auto companies will have Auto Czars, the banks will have Financial Czars, thats called nationalization. And now that they are under the control of the government you know for a fact they won't be allowed to fail, like when Amtrac was requed, do you have any idea how many other smaller privetly owned passenger train companies it had to crush to ensure Amtrac's stability? The same thing is going to happen in the financial and auto industry.

Yabits - Make no mistake, this is the agenda of the liberals who have taken power.

Well you guys have a nice approach on how the free market should work. And I won't disagree with you.

But this wasn't just the crash of a free market, they gambled our futures and our investments on mortgage based investments protected by insurances packages that were backed by not a single dollar. They were $0.00 based insurance packages, so when the mortgage market started to crash, there was nothing for the market to fall back on.

When you buy a car you're required to buy insurance from a reputable insurance company that has the funds to jump in when you need monetary support. But when the mortgage market started crashing there was nothing to catch thbeir fall.

And it's not just a few $Billion we're talking about. We're talking about $Trillions lost. And the continued jobs being lost means that there are more foreclosures coming. And until we get jobs created, it's just going to continue to get worse. < :-)

Sarge writes: "Make no mistake, [entirely throw out the entire notion of private management of private business] is the agenda of the liberals who have taken power.

LOL! It is on no liberal agenda that I know of, and I'm speaking as a liberal.

Now, what specific item in the stimulus package threatens to entirely throw out private management of private business? Or is this yet another example of the conservative agenda of misinformation and mindless fear-mongering?

Yabits... don't be scared, enjoy the irony along with me if you will. I for one can afford my home mortgage. The state that I live in has seen no dramatic change in its housing industry... the dow jones though, hope you got out early and are ready to jump back in. Cause with oil and gas prices back to normal... well the US economy is about to take off, provided the Dems don't screw up the stimulus package. In short, stock prices are dirt cheap, as is gas... I see no reason the US can't bounce back with a vengence these next two years. The problem is gonna be the Japanese. The worlds second largest econmy is gonna be paralyzed because of its export oriented strategy. Face it, cars and electronics aint goin no-where ! Infrastructure is where the big moola will be. Bring it on Prez Obama !

It may have started out with the Sub-prime loans, but it's gone on to middle America and prime loans failing because of lost jobs and dead investments.

A lot of people wanted to refinance their loans, but because the loans were all wrapped up in these $Billion loan investment packages they couldn't pull out single loans for refinancing and they couldn't refinance to meet the new demands of their take home pay. These loans started failing hand over fist.

When people started losing their jobs, homes and investments and they find out level of the corruption in the institutions they trusted and their world crashes down around them. No body can spend money. Well some can. But all those people before that were spending money and keeping this free market running, aren't spending money anymore.

Jobs being sent overseas, layoffs, market crashing, homes lost....

Something has got to be done to revitilize the markets. Something has to be done to get people spending money and getting the markets to respond. We have to bring jobs back. We have to get in infrastructure built for our needs and investment in the future. We have to get jobs and spending to create an increasing tax base to finance a lot of what we need to do.

I'm for this spending package. I'm sure there is a certain amount of waste. But we have to do something now and I think that it will be cheaper to get this going now instead of waiting 6 months and it being much more expensive because we have another million people out of jobs.

The jobs being sent overseas and the crash of the mortgage market has done this and we have to reverse it. < :-)

Cripes you still don't get it...

"It may have started out with the Sub-prime loans"

Noooo ! It didn't start with sub prime loans, don't you get it ? Is the world still so lazy that it can't check two simple charts ? The first, oil prices for the past 2 years and second the stock market ! The data is clear, obvious, and irefutable ! The current economic crisis has nothing to do with bank loans ! Its about oil prices ! And as soon as you admit this, the quicker the road to recovery. The fact is, with oil currently at about $38 a barrel the global economic crisis should be short lived with little need to implement "long term" recovery packages. If major institutions would simply nut up and take the short term losses we could be back to business as usual within months... but then again this is capitalism we're talkin about, and theres money to be made at the expense of the US tax payer.

bandacleo that your opinion based on your understanding and your sourses of information.

I disagree. That's all. < :-)

I'm not so sure we can pin this economic malaise on the Arabs. Many factors contributed to this supposed economic meltdown, the price for oil is one of them but how price of oil inflated to the level it did had more to do with speculation and less to do with price fixing by the oil cartels. OPEC sets production quotas but prices are determined by the open market. I don't recall OPEC squeezing the supply chain but I do remember the speculators going nuts. If anybody deserves blame its the speculators who drove up the price for oil way beyond its actual value. This over-valuation in turn inflated the price of everything else leading to the next problem, higher interest rates which led to the next problem foreclosures, which lead to the next problem Fannie and Freddie's failure, which led to pretty much the government bailout to prevent the collapse of the entire banking system. Large chunks of this stimulus package have nothing to do with the problem at hand and really looks like close to a trillion dollars of pork. I expect the government to be careful stewards of the tax dollar but instead its looking more like a payola scandle to the nth degree. This is change?

bandacleo writes: "I see no reason the US can't bounce back with a vengence these next two years."

Perhaps you don't understand the situation.

If what you said about OPEC being the cause held any water, then the oil shocks of the 1970s -- where adjusting for inflation puts the price similar to the run-up last fall -- were NOT accompanied by bank failures and the collapse of Wall Street firms like Lehman and Bear Stearns, and insurance companies like AIG. Back then, did the Fed push interest rates to near-zero? No.

What we are dealing with here is vastly different and it is a pity that you just don't understand it.

VOR, you are precisely right...

"Many factors contributed to this supposed economic meltdown, the price for oil is one of them"

So was inflated housing in England, India's collapsing IT industry, and Chinas defective exports... they were all "symptoms"... as was the US housing market... OPEC released the virus though, make no mistake... again just look at the time lines, its very clear. Japan needs to stop saying the current economic situation is because of American housing or banking policies... it aint !

yabits, where were you in the 70's ? I remember clearly how the oil crisis sent shock waves around the globe, its affect on the stock market was no where near the impact today because of the baby boom that kept Americans employed at home in the USA and the fact that oil prices didn't quadruple in a matter of months. Todays environment is much different, many Americans lost jobs to cheaper labor overseas, foreign competition in the US is massive compared to the 70's, and there wasn't a chance in hell Wall Street could continue to ignore oil prices over 100 dollars a barrel... that triples the price of manufacturing and distributing almost everything on the planet. Any businessmen worth his salt knows you can't make a profit on those kinds of numbers, thus, let the dominos begin. I agree, OPEC is absolutely to blame ! Funny, how quiet OPEC has become since they threatened 160 a barrel. I for enjoy the current state of affairs. The uS now has the opportunity to really rake in some money off exports.

Bear Stears, Lehman Brothers, Washington Mutual, AIG, et. al. all made it through the 1970s quite nicely.

I disagree; OPEC is not to blame. The fact that oil prices are back down to around $40/bbl as of this writing and the economy is expected to remain in bad shape for many, many months blows your position out of the water.

"The fact that oil prices are back down to around $40/bbl as of this writing and the economy is expected to remain in bad shape for many, many months blows your position out of the water."

I disagree ! Oil prices may be down but inventories remain the same. The oil you are using now was probably purchased at over 100 bucks a barrel. Not until we wade through that mess will be feel the affects of $38 a barrel. But even then, a lot of damage has been done. American factories, distribution systems, etc were forced to shut down or alter usual plans. Until factories have some form of guarantee or see a sign of recovery, they aren't going to open anytime soon. Too bad the Saudies didn't listen to Bush when he visited in January of 2008 ! The world, especially OPEC, would be sitting much prettier... but hey, you overplay yer hand and, well, here ya go... an economic crisis not seen since the 30's ! I want to hear from OPEC ! Was this economic terrorism ? Sure as hell appears that way.

time to reduce or eliminate our dependency on foreign oil so we can not only be held hostage by the oil cartels but we can go tell them to pound sand.

The oil you are using now was probably purchased at over 100 bucks a barrel.

LOL!! All I know is that I'm paying less than $1.70 per gallon to buy it, like any consumer in my state. (Unlike over $4.00 a few months ago.) Nevertheless, the economy is still down the tubes and banks are not lending. Banks not lending was not a problem back in the 70s, and the stimulus package is needed to restore faith in the entire system.

yabits, you are so uninformed. banks are lending, they are just not lending to people with bad credit. i know, i just closed on a house last week and the individual at the title company taking care of the signing said he was doing 6 to 7 per day.

The US economy is not unlike an enormous barge covered with thousands of swine tied to a dock. The swine are Politicians, Bankers, and Lawyers. The barge is called the US Economy. They are all swilling from a trough on the dock full of tax payer’s dollars. The ropes holding the barge to the dock are starting to break the barge is sinking and the swine are squealing for more tax payer’s dollars to swill away. http://www.opensecrets.org/index.php

But yabits... thats the problem, its "all" you know !

"All I know is that I'm paying less than $1.70 per gallon to buy it, like any consumer in my state. (Unlike over $4.00 a few months ago.) Nevertheless, the economy is still down the tubes and banks are not lending."

I have delivered a timeline to your front door that clearly shows how the surging price of oil destroyed the worlds economy. And the best you can do is... "so what, why arent banks lending" ??? In light of that viewpoint, maybe you can tell us all on exactly what day, hour, minute, did the realization that "sub-prime loans" was the reason for the current economic crisis ? In addition, if that was true, then why did the housing industry improve so quickly... like a 6% jump in December. Now, with all this talk of stimulus package from the Obama camp... why did the stock market barely flinch, up 50 points, when the package was approved ? Beecaaussee... factories will not re-open, sales will not increase, consumer spending will not change, and speculators will not budge... until the current, highly expensive, oil is completely used up and 38 bucks a barrel becomes the norm again. Shame on OPEC ! They destroyed the world economy and have been happy to just sit back and let America take the blame. I personally will do my best to hurt these dogs in every way imaginable... I walk, ride a bike, wear hand made clothes from sheep I've sheared and deer I've skinned. My shoes are leather, hand made from the cobbler up the street. I buy local foods and grow my own. A middle finger salute and a bold "screw you" to OPEC.