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Obama consults Saudi king on eve of speech in Egypt

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"Dialogue"??? = the king will lecture, and Obama will listen. Remember the bow?

Some dialogue.

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Remember the bow?

Yeah its called courtesy. How many dignitaries and foreign leaders have bowed to japanese PMs.

A lot of people in saudi have been waiting for this day, well to see how it goes because in case you didnt know it, there is a lot of racism towards blacks in saudi.

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DXXJP: Yeah its called courtesy, something most americans dont have towards one another

Bigot.

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"Some dialogue."

Yes, willi. And the ants doth fight the dhimmi whilst the world bows to the lions of Islam.

Eeeeeeeeeeeeek.

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DXXJP:

" Yeah its called courtesy. How many dignitaries and foreign leaders have bowed to japanese PMs. "

Nope, not like that. And Japanese PMs are not slave-keeping royalty. In the event, the nose-scraping bow to the Saudi potentate was agains American diplomatic protocol, which is why the Obama administration then proceeded to deny it happened. (They say he just bent down because he is soooo tall....).

Tough luck for the Obama admin is there is a tape showing the bow and how lie about it.

Luckily for the Obama administration, the mainstream media are still enough Obama struck to bury the story.

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WilliB: Yes, a bow. It's called respect. Almost the same respect bush gave to the same king when he bowed before him, not to mention groped and held his hand when they walked down the street, and KISSED the man! Finally, which president was it that went BEGGING the Saudi King (possibly before the embarrassing sword dance participation) to lower the cost of oil? Ummm... checking! That's right, it was bush!

Anyway, before you embarrass yourself more with the 'Obama is the first president to bow to the Saudi King' and 'American leaders don't do that', just remember bush's little kiss to the man, as well as the begging.

Opening dialogue with the man in an attempt to settle relations is a GOOD thing, unlike some of you who want the president to simply declare 'jihad', so to speak, on all of Islam. Even if the Muslim word sees it only has half-hearted and wants more concrete 'action' (regardless of talk BEING action), it's at least a step in the right direction.

Good on Obama, once again.

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"Obama was not out to break new policy ground"

But I thought Obama was going to completely change the failed policies of G.W. Bush. I don't get it...

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I wish Obama luck but I do not expect the Saudis, for one example, to stop their abuse of women.

As far as the bow is concerned I think that issue is way overblown. People practice how and when to bow to the Queen of England. Nobody gives it a second thought. I'd do a customary bow to the Emperor too. Wouldn't you Willi? It's called diplomacy and, as distasteful as it might be, (I agree with your assessment of the Saudi monarchy)unless you are going to use force it's the only way to get the job done.

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Is winning hearts and minds of ordinary people in the Muslim world important for American security?

Answering my own question, I think it is of critical importance.

Is there any doubt that President Obama can accomplish this much better than his predecessor?

We see the utter ludicrousness of some people, for whom a "bow" exacts more of price on America than billions upon billions of dollars spent to station troops and everything else needed to support them. (An act which ends up alienating most of the people in the region anyway.)

I bow to you, President Obama.

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The king is not a true representative of the Saudi people or the Muslim world. It is about oil security and placating the Sunnis. Don't be fooled by crusaders...

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Why is it people have to keep pointing out respect for women. Like the US has had so much respect for women, and dont give me this "that was then crap". We still dont respect our women. I happen to know quite a few saudi women and they dont seem to be to put off to the lifestyles they have. Believe me these women are probably higher educated than half the people here.

You know I really think people especially americans didnt even have a clue about Islam or Muslims until 911, and thats sad, but whats even sadder is the crap they repeat thats so far from the truth.

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I dunno DXX, if I was female I would much rather be in the USA or EU or Japan rather than Saudi Arabia. Can't drive, can't get a job. Heck, I read an article that the Saudi women are complaining because they can't even find a female bra fitter when they go shopping. Educated? Education is great but if you can't use it what then? Of course we all understand the Taliban version of education for women: go to school and get acid thrown in your face!

I don't know what information you are drawing your conclusions from but I suggest you check your sources.

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So bowing/kissing is either a sign that you respect the culture or ass kissing/begging. And not bowing/kissing is either disrespectful or it shows you don't compromise yourself.

Now all the pro/anti Bush/Obama people can choose one of those 4 angles and apply it as needed for your political arguments.

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Where is Michael Moore? He must be making a new movie. I hope we can catch Obama and his administration actually doing positive in the Middle East, not like that idiot Bush and Cheney.

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Bowing is just another way of saying " I won't bomb you only if you continue to supply oil to us and don't pee us off.". Good on ya Obama mate. Keep up the GW Bush policies and practices of diplomacy.

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I love how the apologists and defenders here keep saying how bowing to the king is nothing more then showing respect. Just as an example, imagine if you will, the Emperor going and doing Dogeza to the same king of Saud. Wait, but thats just showing respect! Yeah, its about the same level. If it happened, it would be total and utter lunacy. The US head of state, does not bow to a king. Its that simple. Doing so is nothing less the a show of disrespect for the US.

Moving on to the article in question. I sincerely hope, that this time when Obama visits the ME, his people keep him from doing anything nearly as stupid as he demonstrated last time around. Honestly, the man is starting to make Carter look good. And thats hard to do.

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Must be disappointing for black Americans. Obama visits a theocratic petro-state, basically carved into existence by the same empire that "oppressed" Obama's father and grandfather in Kenya. And even worse, the House of Saud was still importing African slaves into the kingdom at the time of Obama's birth.

Shame.

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teleprompter at 9:04 AM - LOL!

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"Muslim grievances against the United States"

Would these include the freedom to worship Allah in the United States while other religions are banned in Muslim countries, and being saved in Bosnia?

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"...if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we'd be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world".

So says Barack Obama.

Where is the outrage and spoon-banging from "secularists"?

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You know I really think people especially americans didnt even have a clue about Islam or Muslims until 911, and thats sad,"

Why? Why should we have to go out of our way to learn about Islam? And how much about other religions do followers of Islam know? Other than that they are infidels.

You said last night about how much racism there is in Saudi Arabia against blacks, so would you welcome a president bowing to the former leaders of South Africa?

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People practice how and when to bow to the Queen of England

yes, except that Saudi Arabia as always freaks, and they don't have bowing protocol, because they think it violates religious teaching. as usual. everything normal in the world more likely violates religious teaching in KSA.

So Obama bowing which he said not a bowing, which is unknown if it was or not, was an ironic gaffe. Though not a big deal, but right wingers love to talk more about small issues, like what Michelle is wearing, and how Obama is walking, and that bow just came to complete their conspiracy theories.

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You know I really think people especially americans didnt even have a clue about Islam or Muslims until 911, and thats sad,"

Skip is right. Even cursory study of the barbaric code of Sharia should put off any sane American.

That not one of the 50 - odd member nations of the Islamic Conference found ratification of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights worth even considerating should also alarm free people.

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President Obama is placing an emphasis on his Muslim connections during his latest kowtow, apologize, and beg for cheap oil tour of the Middle East. I am sure that the King of Saudi Arabia will give him the best advice possible in the interests of America's national defense.

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You know I really think people especially americans didnt even have a clue about Islam or Muslims until 911, and thats sad,"

So true. Had we known more about Islam, we would have been familiar with the concepts of Jihad and Infidel, and not been so lackadaisical about Muslim foreign nationals enrolling in our flight schools.

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"No bow for the Saudi King this time" : http://whitehouse.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/06/03/no-bow-for-the-saudi-king-this-time/ ...says it all. It is just too bad how politicians cannot say they personally did something wrong and apologize. Easy for Obama to apologize for other people's mistakes but for his own, what does he do? Give spin. Anyway he did not bow this time. Actions speak louder then words.

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Why consult with the Saudi King? I thought he was hated, so this is a moot trip!

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First he bows then he doesn't. Can we really trust such a flip flop President? Is this his first flip flop? I think not.

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I don't know what information you are drawing your conclusions from but I suggest you check your sources.

So my two years here wouldnt count as a reliable source, maybe you should pull your head out of faux news and read a book.

Can't drive, can't get a job. Heck, I read an article that the Saudi women are complaining because they can't even find a female bra fitter when they go shopping

Really and when was that printed. They can do all the above with exception to driving but they will soon be allowed to, and if you ask any of them they aren't really that interested in driving their chauffeured all around and they like it. As far as buying a bra do you have any clue how many fillipino girls sell bras to them in saudi, or how many saudi women own and run boutiques, or even that there is a female minister now.

Why? Why should we have to go out of our way to learn about Islam? And how much about other religions do followers of Islam know? Other than that they are infidels.

Why should I lean about jews or Catholics, christians, or atheist. I do it so i dont look like a moron here preachin willy nilly about something I dont know other than second hand info.

you know its funny I have asked about 200 people about the 72 virgins, funny they all laugh about how that isnt even part of it yet you all make it sound like hats what their living for.

Seriously alot of you know nothing about the religion, the people, and probably couldnt point the place out on a map. I can tell you this though, I have been treated with better respect by them then my own countrymen and a 1000 times better than the japanese.

You know all this pissin about them reminds of how americans used to talk about blacks and slaves.

You will never change.

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Why should I lean about jews or Catholics, christians, or atheist." NO ONE IS ASKING YOU TO DO SO!!!

let's take another count: how many times on this board has it been suggested you do so vice how many the so called enlighted one who know all about Islam, tell us to learn about it?

I do it so i dont look like a moron here preachin willy nilly about something I dont know other than second hand info." and yet you are calling us stupid and you know how much about us?

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DXXP, Well if Saudi is such a paradise, why then was I forced to sit in a separate section of the KFC where there were no women. Why was it that when the US military had bases there that we had to make sure that female drivers weren't allowed off base, and that they had to dress moderately. Why is it that I as a non-Muslim can't go into Mecca, and have to take the "Christian Bypass" (I have seen the sign when I was there). Or why is it that when I was there, I was told that I could not wear my own personal cross pendant. Not one of those "bling bling" that Obama just got but something that I can tuck under my shirt so as to not offend. Tell, me if you have ever gone to Rome and walked into the Vatican are there any rules and stipulations that non-Catholics are not allowed.

I am sure that as a man (and I am guessing at that) that you find it nice to live there since you don't really have to go through what all the women go through, or if you live in a foreign compound as most workers do, you have your still there and you can make your own "hooch" or just go over to Bahrain to have a good time.

Also, if as I understand many of the previous posts on Bush being in the pocket of the Saudi's, then what is with Obama? It seems that since he is such an "enilghtened" person what he does is all good.

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skip: "let's take another count: how many times on this board has it been suggested you do so vice how many the so called enlighted one who know all about Islam, tell us to learn about it?"

What are you saying here? I can't understand what you mean.

You're right though, that no one is forcing anyone else to learn about the various world religions, but it's always a good thing to do so, and people should be ENOURAGED to do so. It's the same as different cultures; one can sit there and make ignorant accusations and judgements about something they know NOTHING about, or can learn a little and try to understand. In no way do I have to agree with, for example, the One Child Policy in China, since I think a family should be able to choose for themselves (or not be forced to abort/give up a child when a woman gets pregnant if they already have a child), but learning about the reasons WHY it exists might help me understand the fact a little and make a more informed inference/judgement.

There's nothing more disgusting than watching people accuse each other (yes, that means both sides) of being 'terrorists' or 'infidels', make racist remarks about appearance/culture, simply because they really know nothing and don't WANT to know anything about the other side.

I encourage everyone to go out and learn more about as many religions, countries, and cultures as you can. Doesn't mean you have to 'sign up' or go live there.

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They can do all the above with exception to driving but they will soon be allowed to,

Bush country!

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OneForAll: "It is just too bad how politicians cannot say they personally did something wrong and apologize. Easy for Obama to apologize for other people's mistakes but for his own, what does he do? Give spin. Anyway he did not bow this time. Actions speak louder then words."

I agree that it's a shame that more people in general don't apologize, but I think the more shameful part of this case is that anyone feels Obama did something wrong. He bowed, it's a sign of respect. Nowhere does it mean you are a 'slave' or 'non-American'. Everyone should be proud that he is taking steps to understand others and 'doing what the Romans do'.

The alternative, saying, "We's don't bow 'cause we's is American!" is pure ignorance and unjustifiable arrogance. Now THAT needs to be apologized for, not bowing.

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The son of a Kenyan Muslim who lived part of his childhood in Muslim-majority Indonesia

Isn't this is the same guy who cried like a little girl before the election if the MSM mentioned his middle name is Hussein? He denied all Muslim connections in the election run-up and now touts his Muslim-ness to impress Muslim nations.

Obama is alot like Bill Clinton in this respect: He says what the audience in front of him wants to hear.

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hypocrisy... long before Obama, republicans and democrats has been in Saudi-Arabia. Saudi-Arabia is far from being democratic. Most of terrorists comes from Saudi-Arabia. Why keeping the king in power then? Because we all need their oil.

"Obama visits a theocratic petro-state, basically carved into existence by the same empire that "oppressed" Obama's father and grandfather in Kenya" because maybe he grown up and put aside this fact to let you fill your car a reasonable price as much you hate him or not. I don't believe others would had done any better.

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skipthesong: "yes and no. I've met a lot of people who say they live in Tokyo but are really part of the US military and they don't even know the first thing about living in Japan. I've seen this in Europe too."

EXACLTY my point! If someone hides at a base (intentionally or not) and lives in a bubble instead of bothering to learn about the culture, they are really in no position to say anything about it (and be justified in doing so). Same with religion. If someone at a Tokyo/Sasebo (or where have you) base has a chance and desire to go out and actually LEARN about the culture/society he/she will have a more enlightened perspective on it, be able to make better judgements, and hopefully to see and understand differences and similarities in a way that will lead to peaceful and enjoyable relations -- as opposed to hiding and simply spouting off ignorance.

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yo smith, I agree with you. However, never ever have gone to another country and asked them to change for me or my culture. Yet, I see more Muslims coming to the US and DEMANDING changes that suit them at the expense of those who live there. I already told you once how a guy who killed his daughter in Chicago a few years ago for secreatly dating a black kid and he got support from a lot of people and fled back to Yehman or one of those countries and lives freely. That pisses me off.

We have apologies going on for what this Iraq and Afghanistan wars caused, yet I don't see many of them coming out, or having their leaders apologize for what's happened to us before these wars started, no, I heard more or less excuses.

And because we support a tiny, weenie, country's right to exist should not make us the arch enemy of a population that covers more than half the globe. If they got a problem with us, it really is more their problem than it is ours. How much more/ how many more times are we going to piss the followers of that religion off? And as far the Bush comparisions, leave it to someone else - they hated us when Carter was in too!

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franz:

maybe he grown up and put aside this fact to let you fill your car a reasonable price as much you hate him or not. I don't believe others would had done any better.

I think less than a quarter of Saudi's oil exports go to the US. We could easily supply domestic demand by exploiting the considerable reserves we have in Alaska and elsewhere but we have one political party - hint:not Bush's - that has blocked every move in this direction for over 30 years.

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RomeoRamen: "Obama is alot like Bill Clinton in this respect: He says what the audience in front of him wants to hear."

What happened to TexasAggie? Anyway, what you posted is a laugh, coming from a bush supporter.

"Oh, no, we're not going to have any casualties." --discussing the Iraq war with Christian Coalition founder Pat Robertson in 2003, as quoted by Robertson

"This is an impressive crowd -- the haves and the have mores. Some people call you the elite -- I call you my base." --at the 2000 Al Smith dinner

Anyway, I could go on.

"Isn't this is the same guy who cried like a little girl before the election if the MSM mentioned his middle name is Hussein?"

Show us your proof he cried 'like a little girl' instead of just showing us your intolerant anti-Muslim standpoints.

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skipthesong: "Yet, I see more Muslims coming to the US and DEMANDING changes that suit them at the expense of those who live there."

I see them DEMANDING changes in terms of attitude and tolerance, yes. What I don't see are too many, if any, Muslim nations supporting 'regime change' and LITERALLY changing the countries through invasions to suit their forms of government. I could name plenty of examples where the US alone has done the opposite (in some cases not through invasion themselves, but through inciting revolution, etc.).

You stepped into that one, skip.

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"I could name plenty of examples where the US alone has done the opposite..."

Since I probably have to clarify that, it means the 'opposite' of what the Muslim nations are NOT doing, which is to say what the US has done (ie. Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. etc.).

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skip: "I already told you once how a guy who killed his daughter in Chicago a few years ago for secreatly dating a black kid and he got support from a lot of people and fled back to Yehman or one of those countries and lives freely. That pisses me off."

Makes me angry too, but it's not limited to Muslims or Islam. People will protect those whom they share interests/blood ties/nationality with despite them committing heinous crimes.

"We have apologies going on for what this Iraq and Afghanistan wars caused, yet I don't see many of them coming out, or having their leaders apologize for what's happened to us before these wars started, no, I heard more or less excuses."

And whom do you want to apologize for the acts that occured before the wars you mentioned? Did the Saudi King HIMSELF (or his government) condone or plan/execute what happened? If he did, why was he not attacked instead of bush HELPING the Saudis and further befriending them? Should Iraq apologize for 9/11, when even Cheney yesterday admitted there was zero connection (oddly absent for JT, that article)? My guess is you want all Muslims to apologize for what happened before the wars, when my answer to that is the simple truth: not all Muslims, or almost NONE for that matter, did it.

So again, who should be apologizing? In the case of what Obama is apologizing for, the US is directly responsible (government decision and all).

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smithinjapan:

Since I probably have to clarify that, it means the 'opposite' of what the Muslim nations are NOT doing, which is to say what the US has done (ie. Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. etc.).

You are hilarious. An absolute hoot.

Innocent, often unarmed populations in Southern Thailand, Nigeria,India, Phillipines, Israel, W CHina, Somalia, Sudan, Kurdistan all face violent Mohammedan armies recieving financial support,training and weapons from an int'l network of Muslim gov'ts and financiers.

I won't even mention the violence they do to their co-religoinists, in the news here almost daily.

All of Islam's borders are blood-soaked.

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teleprompter: in the last 28 years, democrats have been in power 8 years (Clinton), so why is US still importing oil from Saudi-Arabia?

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html

"less than a quarter" it seems so.

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teleprompter: all that blather and yet you did not refute my point and point out where they have caused regime change in a sovereign nation. I can give you one example a while back, althought slightly different, and that was Iraq's invasion of Kuwait. US response? They didn't like that one nation attacked a sovereing nation (in which they have major oil interests), and attacked a sovereign nation (hypocrisy at its best) in response (to a nation that had not attacked them). We need not even get into Iraq II.

Surprised you didn't use this in your off-topic 'defense', given that you guys usually throw Kuwait out as an example of American "democratic justice".

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where they have caused regime change in a sovereign nation.

Iraq was a failed state. Saddam had corrupted the UN, used chem weapons, violated treaties, welcomed and harbored terrorists and threatened nearly all of his neighbors. We have been thru this a hundred times.

Give up.

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oh lookie here, the wet behind the ears president not only bows the the King of the nineteen wahabi 911 hijackers, he now seeks his advice.

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I think you mean, Republicans been in power. And the answer is politics. Not sure how much you know about this, but you need a majority of votes in the senate to get legislation passed. Closest they came was in 04 when they had 56 senators. Unfortunately when you have Senators like Snowe from Maine, who while they're affiliated with the Republican party, yet tend to side with Dems on many issues, like this one, passing legislation to drill is problematic.

Don't think this is all one sided either. Despite having 59 votes in the Senate, Dems are having the same issue now with Immigration. Hot button issues like drilling in Anwar or Immigration reform always bring out the cowardice in politicians, whose greatest desire is not the change the country, but to get re-elected.

Course you find the same cowardice among pols everywhere you go. From Britain to Japan. Very few willing to stand up and take a stand, especially if its an unpopular one. One of the reasons I actually admire Bush to a certain degree, despite the destruction he did to the country and the Conservative movement in America. While I disagreed with him on just about every single issue, at least he had the balls to stand up and take unpopular stands when he felt they were right.

Getting back to the topic at hand. This is one of the reasons I don't care for Obama. Thus far his incompetence and lack of leadership in too many key areas are just too much to overlook. Hopefully he'll either dramatically improve, or be tossed out on his ear 4 years from now.

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Wow this is strange, we are trying to make friends with the Islamic world rather than trying to bomb it......This feels real odd, we are also using that thing....wait a minute it will come to me....It has been such a long time since we used it....OH yeah it is called Diplomacy!!! Almost forgot how to spell it....LOL

I am actually glad to see that our President is trying to mend some of the fences that were destroyed by the Bush/Cheney administrations.

LOL.....Man I love the far right and their b.s., when they were in power Bush and Cheney were at the ready to fly over and kiss the Kings royal (bleep) and the far right would not say a word.

But when our President goes over to try and correct our image in the eyes of moderate Muslims they go nutz!

Okay below is a reverse propaganda tactic I am trying out......

How does this sound?

Clears throat

I just wish our President could get some help from the Republicans sniff and the far right wing who hate our President.....I just hope that they would stop aiding the enemies of freedom and liberty.

I just can not understand how the far right can side with Al-Qaidasniff. Why would Romney, Rush, Cheney and their gang of hater of American values try and hurt our America sniff? I just wish that they would come on board for the big push in fighting terrorist.

I just wish they would stop supporting our enemies.....How sad...sniff sniff booohoooo boooohooo

OK time for the song, start in with "I'm proud to be an American" then go into some other good ole fasion Country song....That always gets them....

This piece of propaganda brought to you by the Karl Rove school of b.s. and lies... LOL

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Like Chamberlain and Bush,Obama just know how to appease and pampering the saudis!

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LOL.....Man I love the far right and their b.s., when they were in power Bush and Cheney were at the ready to fly over and kiss the Kings royal (bleep) and the far right would not say a word.

Don't kid yourself, if Bush had gone over and bowed to the King of Saud, there would have been a political firestorm. He would have been taking hits from both the right and left, though I don't doubt that some of the right would have held their nose while they closed ranks around him. Privately they would have been calling him an idiot for what he did. You hear anything like that from those on the far left? I don't. Its all just apologizing, and claiming it was nothing more then showing respect, and lots of other BS.

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VOR: "oh lookie here, the wet behind the ears president not only bows the the King of the nineteen wahabi 911 hijackers, he now seeks his advice."

It's amazing how quickly you guys forget now only how much bush (who bowed to, held hands with, and kissed the king) PROTECTED the Saudis (given how much of the US they own) after 9/11 and insisted on attacking OTHERS despite most bombings being from there, but also how soon you forget about bush's oil-begging tour. Not shocking by any means, simply amazing.

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Obama is one big disappointment. He is visiting Saudia Arabia, a place where human rights and religious freedom is unknown, and Obama is bowing down to the king of that undemocratic nation. He is there to apologise for America being American. Despite the nonsense written in this article about the Muslim world hating America becuase of its ongoing support for Israel, the fact is that the Muslim world hates America because it percieves America as being "Christian" and therefore, "infidels" which they are duty bound to do all in their power to destroy. America bows and panders to the Saudis because of their huge oil wealth, and for no other reason. Obama has now accepted his "thirty pieces of silver" from the Saudi kinbg, and human rights abuses in the Saudi Kingdom are forgotten. So much for the moral courage of Obama - it simply doesnt exist. Well, thank God I am not American.

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My guess is you want all Muslims to apologize for what happened before the wars, when my answer to that is the simple truth: not all Muslims, or almost NONE for that matter, did it."

No, I never asked for it. Never! What I am saying if they are going to demand an apology, it should be a two way street. You won't let me put Iraq into a Muslim equation, yet you allow them to call us the entire west! Not all Americans were down with going into either Afghanistan nor Iraq either..... I don't hear them too often saying that, do you?

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smithjapan:

" It's amazing how quickly you guys forget now only how much bush (who bowed to, held hands with, and kissed the king) PROTECTED the Saudis (given how much of the US they own) after 9/11 "

Ignorance must be bliss... Bush never made an Obama-like deep bow to the Wahabi monarch on an official state visit. And he has been thoroughly (and rightly) lambasted for the hand-holding photo. Talk about hypocrisy.

About "protecting" the Saudis, members of the Saudi family were allowed to leave the US at the time. Every government would have done the same; if GWB hadn´t allowed it, you & your pals would be lambasting him for racism. Again, pure hypocrisy.

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Obama is one big disappointment." I don't think we should start off like that. I my eyes, the entire US gov of my adult years has been a big disappointment.

Sure, I don't like this going and kissing up to those who just kicked your butt, but that doesn't mean the guy is bad.

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Realist - are you kidding?

"Obama is one big disappointment."

What would you rather he do? Ignore the Saudis, the biggest importer of oil to the U.S. and risk the relationship becoming worse?

President Obama is wisely going all out to improve the relationship between not only the U.S. and the Saudi Kingdo, but between the U.S. and the Middle East.

But if you think that's a bad move, that's OK.

"He is visiting Saudia Arabia, a place where human rights and religious freedom is unknown, and Obama is bowing down to the king of that undemocratic nation."

Moot point. The previous president lovingly held hands with the Saudi king many time, and kissed him tenderly on the cheek.

President Obama is doing as protocol demands - showing respect to foriegn leaders, while not going overboard.

Again, if you have a problem with that, that's your call.

"He is there to apologise for America being American."

He is there to apologise for America's past mistakes.

Understanding where you have gone wrong and offering an apology where an apology is due is part of being a responsible adult. It's a pity Republicans and their supporters still don't seem to understand this simple fact. They would much rather let their pride and arrogance get in the way of forging a good, trusting relationship.

"America bows and panders to the Saudis because of their huge oil wealth, and for no other reason."

Likely correct. Why didn't the Republican president that you likely supported do anything about it?? President Obama has made it clear he wants to wean America off Middle East oil by gradually introducing renewable energies.

Is that a problem??

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Every government would have done the same" Not if you elected me.

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Sushi, Canada imports the most oil into the US, not Saudi.

That's a common myth so I understand that you repeat it often as part of the anti-US/Middle East chatroom fodder.

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Apparently it's bad for Obama to bow to one (because for some reason, Americans don't realize that in other foreign countries a bow is akin to a handshake...), but it was perfectly OK for bush and his pappy to walk around holding the King's hand, and peck him on the cheek....

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Wow, the Republicans on JT are showing yet again how little they understand about the big, wide, scary outside world. :-)

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It's the lefties that run around with made up nutty stuff and numbers cryin' that the sky is fallin'.

'k.

Man up.

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USARonin - "It's the lefties that run around with made up nutty stuff and numbers cryin' that the sky is fallin'."

Care to highlight where lefties have been doing this?

Thanks in advance.

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Sushi, you with your Saudi-US-imported oil buffoonery, for one.

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Apparently it's bad for Obama to bow to one (because for some reason, Americans don't realize that in other foreign countries a bow is akin to a handshake...), but it was perfectly OK for bush and his pappy to walk around holding the King's hand, and peck him on the cheek...."

I don't about Bush daddy, but you're right, Jr did even after the fact of 9/11, in fact right after. You're right and we should shoot him too for that!

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What would you rather he do? Ignore the Saudis, the biggest importer of oil to the U.S. and risk the relationship becoming worse?

Yes. Since we have vast amounts of oil in Alaska and even larger reserves of shale oil in places like Wyoming and the Dakotas now would be the perfect time to tell the oil ticks we no longer need them. And we can always just annex Canada if need be. :)

But "liberals" fear national self reliance as much as individual self reliance.

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I wonder why americans spend so much energy talking about a minor protocol mistake, in place of talk about foreign policy. I think that is not worst than GWB saying that Irak was a success or half as bad as Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein. Also not worst than when the americans soldiers dont complained about working with sunnies terrorists that killed american soldiers and that the USA payed money to them. I think that is kind of late for keep being "arrogant", when you need to forgive and work with ex-terrorists for end terrorism or support the 7th most represive regime for secure a source of oil. Is Hubris what got the USA in the tragedy of Irak, in first place, so be a little humble, is not so terrible if no american civilian and/or soldier get killed for that.

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Mareo, outside of venues like this, I don't know of anyone still goin' on about this.

Mareo, we supported Stalinist Russia in DubyaDubya 2.

Sorry to tells ya.

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teleprompter - "Since we have vast amounts of oil in Alaska and even larger reserves of shale oil in places like Wyoming and the Dakotas now would be the perfect time to tell the oil ticks we no longer need them."

Why didn't the previous president get on to this before last year's oil price spike? Up to that point he had had 7 years to do something to reduce America's dependance on foreign oil.

He did nothing.

We didn't hear you complaining then. Why start now?

teleprompter - "But "liberals" fear national self reliance as much as individual self reliance."

????? "Liberals" want self reliance in a way that is not just good for the nation's balance of trade, but that is also good for the environment and the air that people like yourself breathe.

Hence, President Obama's push for expansion of renewable energy.

Using Saudi oil or using U.S. oil - there is little difference - both pollute the environment.

Renewables are a better 'third way' but I don't think you are anywhere near catching that train yet.

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Mareo2 - "I wonder why americans spend so much energy talking about a minor protocol mistake"

Bowing is not a protocol mistake. As I mentioned above, it is akin to a handshake in the West.

President Obama did what was appropriate.

The only issue here is that apparently some Americans on the extreme right are - let's face it - so arrogant - that they just cannot handle the sight of a U.S. president bowing to another world leader.

I'm sorry, but I couldn't find any other word that is more appropriate to use here than 'arrogant.'

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Sushi, don't be afraid of oil and "the environment".

We both be OK.

The French came up with a plan for all those nuclear power plants. Maybe we should follow their lead, eh, Sushi?

Every time conservatives come up with realistic, doable energy solutions, environmental crybabies want me to junk my Range Rover and get on a bicycle.

Sorry, I'm OK doin' both when the mood strikes me.

Ahhhh, the sweet smell of freedom.

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Sushi, Canada imports the most oil into the US, not Saudi.

You mean "exports...to". But yes, it's a little known fact.

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USARonin - "Every time conservatives come up with realistic, doable energy solutions"

Like fatten the pocketbooks of oil industry execs?

Sorry, people stopped buying that argument circa 2006.

"....environmental crybabies want me to junk my Range Rover and get on a bicycle. Sorry, I'm OK doin' both when the mood strikes me."

Congratulations for highlighting the textbook head-in-the-sand attitude that we really don't need at this juncture.

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smithinjapan: What I don't see are too many, if any, Muslim nations supporting 'regime change' and LITERALLY changing the countries through invasions to suit their forms of government.

Except for the half dozen or so that that tried to topple Israel. And Iraq going into Kuwait. Syria took over Lebanon from the inside, no need to invade there. By your logic alone I could claim that canada is less tolerant that Muslim nations since canada has invaded more countries.

Please remember that I'm just addressing one specific point you made. No need for 1000-word rambling responses with loose analogies and topic misdirections.

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USARonin: "Sushi, Canada imports the most oil into the US, not Saudi."

Hate to break this to you, bud, since deflection is so critical to your 'arguments' and all, but if Canada is sending oil into the US it would be EXPORTING, not 'imports', or else if the US were the subject, then imports is fine... but again the US is not the subject of your sentence.

Anyway, aside from that technical grammar point, the rest of what you said was rubbish.

"Ahhhh, the sweet smell of freedom."

Yeah... hahaha... freedom of having to do what China and Saudi tell you as you sell off the country to them. You better HOPE more US presidents start bowing to the Saudi King, because he quite literally owns your freedom.

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teleprompter - "But "liberals" fear national self reliance as much as individual self reliance."

ha ha, it's comments like this that yet again prove my often-stated point that non-Americans seem to have a far better grip on what is good for America than those on the extreme minority hard Right.

You will see who I am refering to in this group when you see who posts a negative, probably angry reply to this post.

Some things never change.

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SmithinJapan - "Yeah... hahaha... freedom of having to do what China and Saudi tell you as you sell off the country to them."

No kidding. After Bush and co. bummed out the U.S. economy, we have just seen a humbled GM resorting to flogging of Hummer to the Chinese for a bargain basement $100 mil.

Thanks to the GOP-fuelled recession, many of America's prime assets, companies and real estate are being sold off to overseas interests, including the Saudis.

Ooops! Bet the Republicans who voted for Bush then McCain didn't see that one coming! :-)

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You better HOPE more US presidents start bowing to the Saudi King, because he quite literally owns your freedom.

I don't think the Saudi King owns my freedom. That sounds like a dramatic overstatement from an emotional person. Please calm down before you post and try again. Remember...say what you really believe. Your credibility is still an important part of the process. No need to give it away so easily just because someone made you angry.

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SushiSake: it's comments like this that yet again prove my often-stated point that non-Americans seem to have a far better grip on what is good for America than those on the extreme minority hard Right.

And that's why Americans feel we have a far better grip of anything that happens outside of our borders.

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Debating with conservatives.....arrggghhh...it's so easy...like taking candy off a baby. :-)

It's like a nutjob who doesn't just shoot himself in the foot once, he just keeps firing again and again until he's all out of ammo.

Then he'll either blame Presidents Obama, Clinton, Al Gore, taxes, terrorists or "global liberals," lol!

JT is incredibly entertaining for that and many other reasons. :-)

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Superlib - "And that's why Americans feel we have a far better grip of anything that happens outside of our borders."

I agree, thanks to millions of Americans - including yourself (thanks!) - voting for Obama last November 20th. :-)

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Sush, I got some bad news most Americans didn't vote for President Barack Hussein Obama last November.

And you don't know important US dates as you pose... The 20th of January is the traditional date for swearin' in US presidents... not November. I'll let you play with findin' out what the first Tuesdays in November every four years are. Heh, heh...

'Candy from a baby.'

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Superlib - "Or we can go for my personal favorite which is watching him respond to his own posts with "follow up" information that he didn't think of when he originally posted. :)"

lol! nice interpretation. You are obviously wasted in your day job. :-)

To be honest, my "follow up" posts are usually made because at the time I wrote my first reply, I didn't actually fully comprehend just how idiotic the logic was behind the post I was replying to.

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I'm not wasted in my day job. I'm just wasting time, just like you... ;)

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USARonin - specifics lacking yet again, I see. :-)

I'm sitting here trying to convince myself that you have a point, but it's like a difficult marriage - some things were just never meant to be, you know? :-)

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Superlib - "I'm not wasted in my day job. I'm just wasting time, just like you... ;)"

Finally, something we can agree on. :-)

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SuperLib: "I don't think the Saudi King owns my freedom. That sounds like a dramatic overstatement from an emotional person. Please calm down before you post and try again. Remember...say what you really believe. Your credibility is still an important part of the process. No need to give it away so easily just because someone made you angry."

Not angry in the least. Enjoying watching teleprompter and USA Ronin in particular make utter fools of themselves. Since they wanted to point out how FREE they are in direct defiance of what Obama is doing (odd to see how they relate the two things, I know), I just wanted to point out how much your nation is actually owned by both Saudi and China. What percent it's at now, I'm not sure... maybe 30%?

"And that's why Americans feel we have a far better grip of anything that happens outside of our borders."

Funny, a huge number of Americans can't even find their own country on the map, let alone know anything related to other nations. Meanwhile the 'non-Americans' on this board constantly shoot down the arguments of the people who feel the need to point out our nationalities as a means to undermine our comments. Nice try at a reversal, but they only work when it's even REMOTELY plausible, which is not the case in your comment.

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susisake3

I agree, thanks to millions of Americans - including yourself (thanks!) - voting for Obama last November 20th. :-)

How can someone be so obsessed about America, spend 8 years hyperventilating about Bush, and forget that the US of A, Leader of the Free World, held its most recent presidential election on Nov 4 of last year?

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Not a political animal here.

Good on Obama meeting the Saudi King. Excellent choice.

The speech will be for the Arab world, the Muslim world and also for the US home audience. Good luck. Our future may hang in part from it...

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Is there any truth to the buzz that the Saudis now want to raise the price of oil twenty pounds a barrel or thereabouts after Obama spoke with this dude?

'Environmentalists' must be in ecstacy.

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What a debate.

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Must be odd,exciting and at times truly liberating for the Arab world (not to mention Europe and Canada), after all the brainwashing their governments, schools, media and pop culture figures have done as regards America and race and power and whatnot to see a figure like Obama leading the greatest, most powerful nation in history.

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" to see a figure like Obama leading the greatest, most powerful nation in history."

Heh, it's a shame then that "patriots" such as yourself are openly hoping for his failure. All that "great nation" flag-waving poop always reminds me of a bloke bragging about how fast his mate's car is. All pomp propped up by other people's achievements.

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All that "great nation" flag-waving poop always reminds me of a bloke bragging about how fast his mate's car is. All pomp propped up by other people's achievements.

It's always a great day to be American, as millions of Arabs is learnin.

I don't care who is in the White House.

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Watch as almost no one wants to shake the hand of the "president of the world" at a SA receiving line:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8ca_1244063181

Classic!!

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Anyway, I don't bow to the US because that's not a sign of respect when meeting someone there. If I meet someone, I'll call them by the proper title, shake hands, or if they DO desire a bow I may do that too (depends on the situation and how formal it is). I don't bow to treasonous posters who desire their president to go down, and who are simply unpatriotic Americans as such, though. So again, given that sushi and I have been spending a wee bit of time cutting your points to shreds, I'd have to say we're not bowing to anyone at all (again, see the 'traitorous' part).

Moderator: Calling posters treasonous is not acceptable. Some more time off for you.

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The new president looks seriously boring. I hope they'll bring back one like they had before. At least he was funny. The one that just lost the election should just do it.

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US should have bombed Saudi instead, but instead of invading a country which directly had something to do with 9/11, the American government don't dare to raise a finger to their Arab masters. Instead they suck up to their Arab masters like a prostitute does to her client. And someone wants to know if they are jealous of US? Apart from the economy going down the sewer. Nah, can't say that I am jelous of getting bombed and not doing anything about it. Sore losers and whiners American people are.

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Obama talks, gesticulates, furrows his brow, does the imperious chin tilt thing but the American public remains as skeptical as ever about the "peace process"

http://www.gallup.com/poll/120728/Americans-Remain-Skeptical-Middle-East-Peace.aspx

A mere 32 percent believe.

He's in Bush territory on that one.

Garsh. I had no idea Limbaugh has convinced a whopping 68 percent of the country that Pres. Obama deserves to fail.

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teleprompter: "A mere 32 percent believe."

But I thought "Americans don't listen to polls", like you said a couple of days ago. Or is it YOU don't listen when it doesn't suit your person and DO listen when it does?

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Just finished watching President Obama's speech in Cairo.

A standing ovation by Egyptians before and after the speech. We can anticipate that the haters in the US will pan the speech just as the Islamic extremists will. Because both factions simply hate the thought of genuine peace and respect amongst peoples.

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120 some posts to prove how obsessed with America its neighbors can be. And all over such a weak President. Imagine if it's a strong one. Oh yeah we already saw that.

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"Imagine if it's a strong one" yes imagine...

"Oh yeah we already saw that" it's already in the history books

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Imagine if it's a strong one. Oh yeah we already saw that.

Yes, the previous president was so strong, he had people of all nations holding their noses.

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The thing with Egypt though, is that the country is run by a dictator who hardly has any support among it's own people and this is the guy who US lebels as moderate. And while supporting a fascist dictator in Egypt and bribing him in order to maintain diplomatic ties with Israel, US must understand that they are being laughed at when they go on and lie about wanting to spread freedom and democracy in the Middle East as anyone knows. USA's main Arab allies in the Middle east are ruthless dictators such as Saudi and Egypt.

So you have US sucking up to it's Arab masters in Saudi where all the hijackers happened to come from. Then you have a fascist dictator in Egypt who American tax payers bribe a lot of money to in order for the corrupt dictator to maintain diplomatic ties with Israel and you have the leaders of Israel praising 9/11. What does that make Americans, people with some common sense wonder.

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The thing with Americans though is that they are more like poodles to the Saudi Royals, more like servants. Right after 9/11 the only people allowed to fly in or out of US were the bin Laden family. Obviously Bush knew who his master was, wondering why some Americans still haven't figured this one out. Americans are trying very hard to impress both Israel and Egypt with their bribe for what reason? To get WTC blown up to pieces? Americans save yourself from further humiliation. Israel is not your friend and neither is Egypt. They are happy with some freebies. A friend would not praise 9/11 like Israel did.

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teleprompter at 07:31 PM JST - 4th June

"A mere 32 percent believe."

Polls, huh?

teleprompter at 06:20 PM JST - 28th May

" "Polls" are important in Europe, where they are one of many devices used to tell the sheeple what to think, but in America they mean little."

One further example of your hypocrisy....

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"I had no idea Limbaugh has convinced a whopping 68 percent of the country that Pres. Obama deserves to fail."

limbaugh isn't convincing anyone other than the tiny-minds already convinced. And neither limbaugh, nor the teleprompter are saying that President Obama "deserves to fail".

They've both openly hoped for his failure. The traitors.

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I'm sorry, but anyone who opposes Hugo Chavez, opposes Obama. I mean, hell, Chavez is just Obama-lite. He said so himself!

A friend would not praise 9/11 like Israel did.

You mean they wouldn't say, welcome to the real world? The world we've been dealing with everyday for the past 30 years? Hmm, I think they would.

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Madverts - Heck, if Obama fails, America wins. What's traitorous about hoping for that?

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Madverts:

" They've both openly hoped for his failure. The traitors. "

It makes you a traitor if you hope for a set disastrous policies to fail?? How so?

When was your whole country sworn in on the agenda of the extreme leftist fringe of your party?

Please explain.

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"Heck, if Obama fails, America wins."

Hmmm, some might see it as "if Obama fails, America is screwed". But who am I to put country before partisan shriekyness?

Please continue young man.

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Hmmm, some might see it as "if Obama fails, America is screwed". But who am I to put country before partisan shriekyness?

Actually, the reverse is true actually. If Obama succeeds, America is screwed. But then, if you're so blinded by partisan politics you can't see reality, who am I to try to remove your blinkers.

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Actually, wanting Obama to succeed is like praying for the stock market to crash. Do you want to see the economy destroyed? Because thats the path he is leading us down. Wanting him to fail, is wanting America to succeed. That is all. No more, no less. It doesn't mean I want him to die, like so many of the anti-bush partisans, it doesn't mean I think he is evil either. I just think his policies are misguided and disastrous for the US, and the world economy. Of course his demonstrated incompetence in foreign policy doesn't help either, but hopefully he'll get better at that. He certainly can't do any worse then he's been doing.

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If Obama succeeds, America is screwed.

Yeah, that's right. It's quite detrimental to the Bush, neoconservatives, and the republican sympathizers.

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"I just think his policies are misguided and disastrous for the US, and the world economy."

Your free to an opinion, but how you can make ot after 6 months of Obama eludes me.

"Of course his demonstrated incompetence in foreign policy doesn't help either, but hopefully he'll get better at that."

Your an old Bush supporter. Buddy, at least the geezer knows Nigeria isn't a continent....

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Yeah, that's right. It's quite detrimental to the Bush, neoconservatives, and the republican sympathizers.

Actually, whats funny is the opposite of that is true. If Obama succeeds, he like Bush will essentially be undercutting his own party. Oddly enough, if Obama wins, conservatives win too. Rather sad, but true. Even still, I'd rather have the country as a whole be better off, then have my own party do better.

Your an old Bush supporter. Buddy, at least the geezer knows Nigeria isn't a continent....

lol, I'm a conservative, which means, I am about as far away from being a Bush supporter as you can get. I admire the man for some things, but I disagreed with him on just about everything. With his call for expanding government, vast overspending etc despite his supposed party affiliation, he had more in common with Dems then he did with Republicans. Although considering how many Republicans abandoned their core principles over the past 6 years...

Doesn't change the fact that Obama has thus far been completely incompetent when it comes to foreign policy. Like I said, I hope he improves, I really do. When it comes to his stance on the economy, I want him to fail, because I think it would good for the country. When it comes to foreign policy, I want him to succeed, because likewise that would be good for the country. Hope this all makes sense to you now.

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If Obama succeeds, America is screwed.

That is only because the typical Republican ego is such that only their way is the right way. Therefore the real truth is: If Obama succeeds, the Republicans are screwed (even more than they are now, if that is possible).

If that happens, America will be just fine, Chicken Little.

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That is only because the typical Republican ego is such that only their way is the right way....

And the leftist/liberals ego is...?

I would call that kind of rationale completely delusional.

Heh, heh...

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And the leftist/liberals ego is...

Not anything near the equivalent of someone who calls himself a conservative and says they are as far away from a Bush supporter as anyone can get....Even though he voted for Bush and has hundreds of posts defending Bush policies. (Oh, that's right, he loves Cheney. -- LOL!!)

No. You won't find real liberals as delusional as that.

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And the leftist/liberals ego is...?

I always find it funny when, faced with the truth of an obvious delusional statement, you can count on a conservative to counter it by the "neener-neener" approach shown above.

Shows the weakness of their arguments.

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Not anything near the equivalent of someone who calls himself a liberal and says they do, in fact, care about their country.

No, you won't find conservatives as delusional as that.

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Shows the weakness of their arguments.

The pot callin' the kettle black argument.

-Has to be the center of attention and play to an audience. Are you too weak to speak directly to me.

Liberal/leftist...

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Anyway, the stock market is up about 40% since Obama took over from the boy blunderer. Things go so much better when the adults are in charge. And 100 days in and no stupid invasion of defenseless countries that cost trillions of dollars. Wow. Happy days are here again.

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Not anything near the equivalent of someone who calls himself a conservative and says they are as far away from a Bush supporter as anyone can get....Even though he voted for Bush and has hundreds of posts defending Bush policies. (Oh, that's right, he loves Cheney. -- LOL!!)

This is starting to get a bit off topic here don't ya think? Ah well, I'll answer.

I've said this other places as well, but apparently you didn't bother to read. I both like and dislike Bush and Cheney. Cheney, despite what he says now, he supported Bush's policies over the past 8 years, and so I can't really overlook or forgive him, despite his rhetoric now. Bush, well, I admire him for doing what he thought was right, even when it wasn't popular, but his policies... He cut taxes, and he installed good judges. Other then that though, I can't think of any policy or action he did that was good. I've been vocal about expressing my opinion of Bush, so tell me, how am I a supporter? How am I who feels he betrayed the Republicans and all conservatives, a supporter of Bush?

Contrast that to the Dems. Yeah, they talked trash, but he kept putting policies and laws in place that were totally down their alley. NCLB, Prescription Drug. The man never met a spending bill he didn't like, and the Dems, despite their rhetoric, loved him for it. He had to fight to get votes from Republicans for some of these policies, but the Dems, were all in favor of them.

Now, lets get back to the topic at hand shall we? Obamas trip to the middle east, and what it means for the US, and the world. When it comes right down to it, this is not an either/or situation. Because you opposed Bush, doesn't mean you should support Obama, or viceversa. You sad delusions on the subject aside, I try to look at everyone objectively, unlike yourself who seems to want to put everything into shades of black and white.

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Other then that though, I can't think of any policy or action he did that was good. I've been vocal about expressing my opinion of Bush, so tell me, how am I a supporter?

I don't say you are a supporter. I took exception with the words "as far away from a Bush supporter as anyone can get." You? Really?

Had I not seen those words, which are pretty black/white if you ask me, I would not have swerved off-topic the way I did.

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Just so you know, Here is how I rate the last several presidents.

Reagen Kennedy Nixon Ford Bush 1 Clinton Bush 2 Johnson Carter

Yeah, I know, Nixon is high. But you set aside his Watergate stupidity, the man was a good president. Clinton wasn't bad, but neither was he great. Compared to his competition, he was an average president. From there, theres a big jump to Bush 2, Johnson, and Carter. Right now I rate Obama between Clinton and Bush 2, and falling fast. The more the country turns towards marxism, the less I think of him. If anything else is nationalized, if salary caps are implemented etc. Then he will go down as one of the worst presidents in History. Granted, thats from my own perspective.

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Some presidential quotes

"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty." JFK

"I tell the American people solemnly that the United States will never survive as a happy and fertile oasis of liberty surrounded by a cruel desert of dictatorship." FDR

"I had faith in Israel before it was established, I have in it now. I believe it has a glorious future before it - not just another sovereign nation, but as an embodiment of the great ideals of our civilization." Harry S. Truman

"American and Israel share a special bond. Our relationship is unique among all nations. Like America, Israel is a strong democracy, a symbol of freedom, and an oasis of liberty, a home to the oppressed and persecuted." William J. Clinton

"There is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured with what is right in America." William J. Clinton

"Of the four wars in my lifetime, none came about because the U.S. was too strong." Ronald Reagan

"The US is one of the largest muslim countries." Barrack Hussein Obama

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Barak Hussein Obama, is an American, a Christian and not a ding bat like George W. This guy has class (Obama) and brains. He will go a long way. Republicans should thank god that Mr. Obama is now the president of the USA so they can have time to put their small, pea brains together and huddle up with Rush, to try to say something funny for all of them ditto heads.

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It keeps surprising me how you folks on the right think by talking to world leaders that he is giving in or surrendering. It is beyond me how you guys just do not see the brilliance of his tactic.

I understand that we in the United States have not had a diplomatic President in a long time. But believe it diplomacy works. Our President is doing the right thing by showing himself to the world and the world leaders.

Molenir at 01:01 PM JST - 5th June Reagen Kennedy Nixon Ford Bush 1 Clinton Bush 2 Johnson Carter Right now I rate Obama between Clinton and Bush 2, and falling fast. The more the country turns towards marxism, the less I think of him. If anything else is nationalized, if salary caps are implemented etc. Then he will go down as one of the worst presidents in History. Granted, thats from my own perspective.

Please name one thing that he has done as President that you consider Marxist. Just name one itsy-bitsy teeny-tiny thing pleeeeeeeeease!

Molenir at 01:01 PM JST - 5th June Just so you know, Here is how I rate the last several presidents. Reagen Kennedy Nixon Ford Bush 1 Clinton Bush 2 Johnson Carter

Your list tells a lot about your beliefs and why you fear our President. What struck me the most was the fact that you placed Ford in front of Clinton and Reagen number one.

Kennedy (dealing with crisis)

Johnson (civil rights)

Reagan (bringing American pride back)

Clinton (Bring the economy out of the brink)

Obama (He most likely will move up the ranks)

Nixon (Opening China)

GHW Bush (what did he do again?)

Carter (M.A.D. is his claim to fame)

Ford (got hit by an egg other than that nothing)

GW Bush (Cheney, dare I say more about this Bush?)

Moderator: Back on topic please.

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repocrat, demopubican. who are they? they run the country, and they are the lobbyists.

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That is where he found the 600,000 jobs!

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