Obama signs $938 billion health care overhaul into law

This so-called "health care bill" is a giant leap backward for American citizens and a giant advancement for big government that intrudes more and more into the lives of too many people. "Health Care" is no more a right than car care or home care. Take care of yourselves people! Eat right, get your rear off the couch once in a while and stop expecting others to take care of you!

Oh yeah the "Big Bad Government" is coming. Is that something like the Boogieman or "dem terrists"? The right has been selling this fear BS for years now to privatize and deregulate everything so they can rake in profits without any government interference or protection of the average citizen. Wake up! Can you really be that stupid?! Fortunately most Americans aren't buying this BS anymore, but it's still hard to believe people like you still exist.

This so-called "health care bill" is a giant leap backward for American citizens and a giant advancement for big government that intrudes more and more into the lives of too many people.

"Health Care" is no more a right than car care or home care.

Take care of yourselves people! Eat right, get your rear off the couch once in a while and stop expecting others to take care of you!

If you believe all the moron ultra-right-wingers, you would think the U.S. has now become a Communist Republic! Check out this diatribe of garbage from an esteemed FOX-News Commentator by the name of Glenn Beck:

"Not only is the republic at stake, but you will know the health of it by seeing what happens right now . . . this bill was still jammed down Americans' throats. Just enough spineless weasels were convinced to go along with it...Who do you think has emerged? The California hippie, Marxist, communist, socialist progressives with flowers in the barrels of guns, sitting around smoking dope and talking about how they can destroy the evil American empire — they are the ones who have declared themselves king... Never in my life did I ever think I would see the kind of corruption, backroom deals, bribes and out-and-out scum-baggery [who] got this health care vote through . . . They say this bill is historic and that Sunday was a historic day. I think they're exactly right. But you know what other days were historic? Pearl Harbor; Neville Chamberlain meeting with Hitler; Jimmy Carter's presidency, and, of course, the Hindenburg in flames...This was an historic accomplishment, all right: historically corrupt, historically partisan and a historic insult to our Constitution. It will be remembered as a black spot on this nation for all time . . .

Fortunately most Americans are far more intelligent than any of the miserable commentators on FOX, which is why they enacted Obama to get this bill through. It is disturbing however that this news channel is relatively popular in the States.

Look, it was about time a President was able to get through a minimum standard of universal health-care, and at least partially catch up to us in Australia, Canada, Japan, etc. I am happy for everyone in America - they finally got a fairer healthcare system that they wanted.

People keep complaining about Socialized this and that, but two things that absolutely should be partially socialized meaning the government should guarantee to each and every citizen are Health Care and Education. I believe those two things are basic human necessities that not only benefit each individual, but benefit the masses. An educated and healthy worker is a productive worker and as such a productive member of society. A productive society means less poverty; and less poverty means less crime. Of course this is a generalization.

I say partially socialized because I don't believe the government should decide which hospital or school you attend, only that it provide the means for you to attend one (of your choice) and make sure that there certain standard met by all.

Oh for Christ's sake it has nothing to do with his color; I'm so sick of hearing that crap. Now I can't criticize my President because he's black. It's just naturally assumed (and seems to me more of a crutch used by the left) that if I'm white, not a liberal and criticize that I must be a 'banjo-playin', rebel flag carrying, gap-toothed, Ree-pub-lykin with an IQ of twelve. I'm not just saying this to make myself look 'hip' but frankly his color is meaningless to me - and I'll bet very many of us - and wouldn't even be a thought if it wasn't thrown in our faces because it's an easy way to accuse because not everyone agrees with BS legislation that was hastily thrown together after defeat of the original plan and rammed through to win a political victory. It is true that most everyone - liberal, conservative, democrat/republican, tall, short, white, black, green or indigo - has not read through this bill to study and understand all of its nuances. You know the talking points and the 'good things' it will do. But what about all the crap tacked on to the back pages? I suspect there is a lot of bill there that few have really gotten to the meat of. So why not rush it through so we can all pay for it and enjoy it? Read it? Why would you want to do something so stupid? I'm a tech writer by trade and write the instructions that most of you never read when using a new piece of software, or putting together a bookcase you bought from IKEA. You never read the instructions and screw it up every time. Usually they aren't written correctly and make no sense (not mine of course!). Same thing here. Ram it through and will fix it later. Sure, great idea. Some type of health care reform was most definitely needed, and past administrations have dragged feet and one nothing. I'll give it to the President that he at least did something. But hastily cobbling legislation, ramming it through and changing our system to one that at least bear strong resemblance to socialized medicine was not the way to go and is dangerous. Too many of us currently have health insurance that we pay for that seems to work. Now I have to change all of that so I can pay for everyone else to have it as well. Magnanimous or not, you can see why that might make some of us rather nervous. Instead of getting a clear-cut, concise and studied in-depth presentation and rational discussion of what this bill would entail and in fact do, we were met with presentation of an angry car salesman telling us that we need this and to shut up and pass it. Logic wins out over stupidity. If this had been presented correctly rather than crammed down our throats by less than eloquent politicians and witch-like Pelosi and weirdo Reid, it may have been more palatable and even made sense to the masses.

Wow! tigermoth, for once I'm inclined to agree. Admittedly I have NOT read the bill and only made assumptions on the fact that we desperately NEED change. As you pointed out, you are paying for and thus can afford HC, but there is a large majority of Americans who cannot. And just like you're probably not a 'Yeaaaa haaaaaw' yelling redneck, it's shouldn't be assumed that these people are lazy and jobless lowlifes. People tend to forget we are still in the middle of a major financial crisis and maybe you are lucky enough for it not to be affecting you, but there are a lot people that it has affected and they need help. So my personal opinion is... if I have to get taxed a little more from my pay to help others get back in their feet, so be it. In the long run, it only comes back to help me because maybe one those people may end up being a customer of mine in the future. It's just good Karma.

Then the readers who believe that forcibly taking money from one person to pay for another person's health care is slavery have no voice here.

Nice hyperbole. Well, guess what? I wish MY tax dollars didn't go to subsidize the meat industry to keep your big macs cheap. Millions of us don't want our tax dollars going to finance a war. And you have a problem with healthcare? sheesh.

tigermoth - You know you have my respect, but dude, when I read "banjo-playin', rebel flag carrying, gap-toothed, Ree-pub-lykin with an IQ of twelve", I spat coffee all over my monitor! Most excellent one-liner!

Thanks tigermoth, I agree it is misleading.

Well, in this link the President is quoted as saying "This is a patient's bill of rights on steroids," the president said Friday at George Mason University in Virginia. "Starting this year, thousands of uninsured Americans with pre-existing conditions will be able to purchase health insurance, some for the very first time. Starting this year, insurance companies will be banned forever from denying coverage to children with pre-existing conditions."

The link: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Gap-in-health-care-laws-apf-4272209396.html?x=0&.v=1

Clearly says 'starting this year'. While of course it could mean that the legislation is passed this year, the quote is none-the-less quite misleading.

Oh for Christ's sake it has nothing to do with his color; I'm so sick of hearing that crap. Now I can't criticize my President because he's black. It's just naturally assumed (and seems to me more of a crutch used by the left) that if I'm white, not a liberal and criticize that I must be a 'banjo-playin', rebel flag carrying, gap-toothed, Ree-pub-lykin with an IQ of twelve. I'm not just saying this to make myself look 'hip' but frankly his color is meaningless to me - and I'll bet very many of us - and wouldn't even be a thought if it wasn't thrown in our faces because it's an easy way to accuse because not everyone agrees with BS legislation that was hastily thrown together after defeat of the original plan and rammed through to win a political victory.

It is true that most everyone - liberal, conservative, democrat/republican, tall, short, white, black, green or indigo - has not read through this bill to study and understand all of its nuances. You know the talking points and the 'good things' it will do. But what about all the crap tacked on to the back pages? I suspect there is a lot of bill there that few have really gotten to the meat of. So why not rush it through so we can all pay for it and enjoy it? Read it? Why would you want to do something so stupid? I'm a tech writer by trade and write the instructions that most of you never read when using a new piece of software, or putting together a bookcase you bought from IKEA. You never read the instructions and screw it up every time. Usually they aren't written correctly and make no sense (not mine of course!). Same thing here. Ram it through and will fix it later. Sure, great idea.

Some type of health care reform was most definitely needed, and past administrations have dragged feet and one nothing. I'll give it to the President that he at least did something. But hastily cobbling legislation, ramming it through and changing our system to one that at least bear strong resemblance to socialized medicine was not the way to go and is dangerous. Too many of us currently have health insurance that we pay for that seems to work. Now I have to change all of that so I can pay for everyone else to have it as well. Magnanimous or not, you can see why that might make some of us rather nervous.

Instead of getting a clear-cut, concise and studied in-depth presentation and rational discussion of what this bill would entail and in fact do, we were met with presentation of an angry car salesman telling us that we need this and to shut up and pass it. Logic wins out over stupidity. If this had been presented correctly rather than crammed down our throats by less than eloquent politicians and witch-like Pelosi and weirdo Reid, it may have been more palatable and even made sense to the masses.

Yeah right Molenir, if he really said those words then where did you get them from?

Told you I'm not going to bother to provide a link. Not hard though, copy and paste the quote into google. If you're too lazy to find it yourself, tough luck. Still want to try to defend his lies, your prerogative.

Everyone is quick to call Obama and a liar but I wonder where all of those people were when we were constantly being lied to by the Bush Administration. I suspect every President has had good intentions of keeping certain promises made while campaigning for one thing or another but then have had his reality shattered by back door politics that kept him from keeping those promises. The only difference is that since Obama is the first African American to hold the office, everyone wants to ridicule on an unfairly amplified level. Like comedian Chris Rock said (in reference to Bush), "An African American B+ student will have a hard time finding a job as a manager of a fast food restaurant, but a caucasian C- student can be President of the United States". It's the same old racism and double standards that have always existed for an African American. I don't particularly like Obama and have been disappointed by his failure to keep certain promises, but at the same time, I don't see how he is any different from any other President. No President has ever been able to keep 100% of his promises 100% of the time. People are just quicker to scrutinize Obama because he's African American.

If anybody remembers the old 80s sci-fi show called "V"....it is very distrubing to see the close parallels between what happened in the show and what is happening now.

Aliens come promising cures for disease....Obama Care.... Then aliens make up claims of threats.....Democrats now claim they are receiving death threats...a perceived threat. These "threats" or obscene calls happen every day to politicians in the past and will happen in the future.

These perseived threats by the aliens in "V" was then "fixed" with the declaration of martial law and the take over of the government. Congressman Dingell (Democrat) was even quoted as saying "It will take a long time to control the people."

We The People have the right to petition the government for a redress of griviences. How can the president, who had to take the oath twice, say this health care reform was "by the people and for the people" when noboday had a chance to read the bill before it was passed?

Yeah right Molenir, if he really said those words then where did you get them from?

Just to let you all know at the time this bill was signed the Unitied States of America is now a socialist nation. What is the base pay for a fully trained firefighter/EMT in Japan?

It is being phased in, but if you want me to hunt up a link to one of the speeches Obama gave talking about all the wonderful things that would happen immediately, do it yourself. Its in there though, if nothing else, look for a transcript.

Or just cause I'm such a helpful guy I'll quote Obama...

“Starting this year, thousands of uninsured Americans with pre-existing conditions will be able to purchase health insurance, some for the very first time. Starting this year, insurance companies will be banned forever from denying coverage to children with pre-existing conditions.”

From a speech given Friday. He said essentially the same thing in a speech on Saturday as well. Turns out, like so many other promises made, it was just another lie. It will happen as you point out, but its phased in, and doesn't provide complete protection even still.

Molenir said:

Anyway, you remember being told that pre-existing conditions will now be covered.

No, I was told it would be phased in. I always knew the Senate version said 2014 not 2013 like Molenir said. But since you say we were "being told" and then implicated Obama as a liar in association with that alleged disseminated information then I want to see a quote.

Want to know of some things that do take effect immediately?

BEGINS TO CLOSE THE MEDICARE PART D DONUT HOLE - Reduces the donut hole by $500 and institutes a 50% discount on brand-name drugs, effective January 1. 2010.

IMMEDIATE HELP FOR THE UNINSURED UNTIL EXCHANGE IS AVAILABLE (INTERIM HIGH-RISK POLL) - Creates a temporary insurance program until the Exchange is available for individuals who have been uninsured for several months or have been denied a policy because of pre-existing conditions.

BANS LIFETIME LIMITS ON COVERAGE - Prohibits health insurance companies from placing lifetime caps on coverage.

ENDS RESCISSIONS - Prohibits insurers from nullifying or rescinding a patient's policy when they file a claim for benefits, except in the case of fraud.

EXTENDS COVERAGE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE UP TO 27TH BIRTHDAY THROUGH PARENT'S INSURANCE - Requires health plans to allow young people through age 26 to remain n their parents' insurance policy, at the parents' choice.

ELIMINATES COST-SHARING FOR PREVENTATIVE SERVICES IN MEDICARE - Eliminates co-payments for preventative services and exempts preventative services from deductibles from the Medicare program.

IMPROVES HELP FOR LOW-INCOME MEDICARE BENEFICIARIES - Improves the low-income protection programs in Medicare to assure more individuals are able to access this vital help.

PROVIDES NEW CONSUMER PROTECTIONS IN MEDICARE ADVANTAGE - Prohibits Medicare Advantage plans from charging enrollees higher cost-sharing for services in their private plan than what is charged in traditional Medicare.

IMMEDIATE SUNSHINE ON PRICE GOUGING - Discourages excessive price increases by insurance companies through review and disclosure of insurance rate increases.

CONTINUITY FOR DISPLACED WORKERS - Allows Americans to keep their COBRA coverage until the Exchange is in place and they can access affordable coverage.

CREATES NEW, VOLUNTARY, PUBLIC LONG-TERM CARE INSURANCE PROGRAM - Creates a long-term care insurance program to be financed by voluntary payroll deductions to provide benefits to adults who become functionally disabled.

HELP FOR EARLY RETIREES - Creates a $10 billion fund to finance a temporary reinsurance program to help offset the costs of expensive health claims for employers that provide health benefits for retirees age 55-64.

COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS - Increases funding for Community Health Centers to allow for a doubling of the number of patients seen by the centers over the next 5 years.

INCREASING NUMBER OF PRIMARY CARE DOCTORS - Provides new investment in training programs to increase the number of primary doctors, nurses, and public health professionals.

I am no great fan of this bill. I am sure that it did not go far enough. But I tell you, I am willing to pay a lot to do the work of Jesus Christ in this way. We have to look out for each other, people.

Now if only people could be trusted to look out for each other, rather then having the government tax us to death in order to be able to afford to do it for us. I always wonder why it is, that people seem to think the government can do a better job looking out for people, then people can.

Bottom line; any amount of money spend on Health Care is a benefit to ALL Americans Dems, Reps or otherwise.

Actually, the money spent on Health Care benefits only those who cannot afford insurance. Everyone else already has insurance, and thus, it not only doesn't benefit them, but actively hurts them.

By the by, why did the dems put a loophole in the law which exempts Obama, his staff and members of Congress and their staffs from falling under obamacare?

Oh come on, we all know that. Its because they want good health insurance, you know the Cadillac plans they were so condemning.

now that they've passed it, will the Dems finally read the bill?

They're in the process of doing so. For example, now that they've passed it, they discovered that Obama is a liar again. No surprise of course, but to be caught out so quickly like this is rather surprising. Anyway, you remember being told that pre-existing conditions will now be covered. Well turns out under this bill, they're not. Heh, go figure. Not only are pre-existing conditions for adults not covered, they're not covered for children either. Those provisions won't go into effect until about 2013. Pretty funny finding Obama caught in another lie. Course the lie about it not increasing costs, not forcing a change in plans, and not forcing you to switch doctors are whoppers too, but since the things that will effect those don't come into effect until 2013, he might be able to get away with those lies.

House Democrats report increased threats since health care vote

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/24/congress.threats/?hpt=T1

FBI was investigating a suspicious incident at the home of Virginia Democratic Rep. Tom Perriello's brother, days after the brother's home address was posted online by a Tea Party activist.

Damn Conservatives!

"...it takes a long time to do the necessary administrative steps that have to be taken to put the legislation together to control the people." Representative John Dingell (D-MI)on why the implementation of obamacare is pushed so far out into the future.

I am no fan of Republicans but Democrats don't make me jump for joy as they seem to particularly welcome liars, thugs, perverts and miscreants in their midst. I guess leadership emerges that the populous deserves. How I wish we were better than this!

But regarding obamacare - how can a jewel come from a swine's snout? (e.g. Congress)

Cheers

I love this new Obama health care poverty plan. I feel lighter and more carefree already! My God given rights as a human being, my constitutional rights and my wallet have all been lifted. I especially love what Rep. Alcee Hastings, Dem. FL, had to say about the plan and the way it was passed "There ain't no rules here, we're trying to accomplish something … all this talk about rules … . When the deal goes down, we make 'em up as we go along." A Representative since 1993 and a Democrat, Hastings was previously a lawyer and judge. He spent ten years as a federal judge (1979–1989), but was impeached and removed from office for corruption and perjury. He was the sixth federal judge to be impeached and removed from office in American history.

With people of this ilk along with Obama, Pelosi, Reid et al. running the USA, I have great confidence in its future. Know any good Mandarin instructors?

By the by, why did the dems put a loophole in the law which exempts Obama, his staff and members of Congress and their staffs from falling under obamacare?

Cheers!

This bears repeating:

I am no great fan of this bill. I am sure that it did not go far enough. But I tell you, I am willing to pay a lot to do the work of Jesus Christ in this way. We have to look out for each other, people.

Nice work Speed Racer.

Taka

HCR just keeps getting better.

Now john (America First) mccain has decided to throw a temper tantrum (funny, he's really admired by a temper tantrum throwing person here at JT too) and saying he won't work with the Democrats to get anything done.

Mr. America first my butt.

And Harry Reid puts it all into perspective:

“Senator McCain’s promised obstruction comes to reality just a day later. ‘The Party of No’ wouldn’t even agree to let Senate committees meet today. Ironically, as they make false claims about transparency regarding health reform, they’re shutting down a committee hearing today on transparency in government.

“The bottom line is that as millions of Americans are learning about the immediate benefits of health reform, Republicans are throwing a temper tantrum and grinding important Senate business to a halt.”

The "party of no" is a label rapidly becoming too classy for the GOP.

Taka

Skipthesong.

And that is why the bill passed. When all is said and done, the old system just gouged and executed too many people for too long. I also had a relative die pretty recently without insurance. He worked 30 years of his life, and was not statistically off the charts in terms of bad genes or lifestyle or anything. Just a guy who worked 30 years who was then basically left to die.

I am no great fan of this bill. I am sure that it did not go far enough. But I tell you, I am willing to pay a lot to do the work of Jesus Christ in this way. We have to look out for each other, people. I am not sure what Republican principle THAT runs counter to. Jimmy Stewart and Henry Fonda used to fight publicly (fistfights) all the time about political things, but if Jimmy Stewart were alive today, he would be slapping some Republicans, and Henry would be saying "I told you so." Look at the ghouls Republicans have turned into. A few coins from their pockets and they go on record as saying, "let poor people just die."

Well, as I said, I have misgivings about the bill. Knowing what we know now about the Rep capacity for obstructionism, it is clear that Obama and Pelosi should have put a steamroller in front of the more ambitious bill and forced it through months ago. Do what it is right for America. Let the Reps marginalize themselves further, don't try to save the Republican party by appeasing them.

"The 32 million uninsured are that way because they are either unemployable or lack the drive to get a better job where they can pay for their insurance like the rest of us."

Yeah. Because everybody knows that people working at McDonalds supporting three children because they have been laid off from their real job deserve medical care a lot less than investment bankers who have managed to keep their incentive packages! Those slacker unemployed people SHOULD be sick. Forever and ever! That'll teach em. I will not pay a cent to help them even if they DO infect my hamburger. They should bring back workhouses and debtor's prisons too.

The government already spends (or I should say wastes) over 2 trillion annually for health care,

see link here: http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/health/2009/07/29/2009-07-29_what_you_need_to_know_about_president_obamas_health_care_reform_plan.html

so how in the world do you think spending 900 billion to revamp a system that doesn't work is going to all of a sudden bankrupt the country. It's nothing but Republicans up to their old scare tactics to push their jaded agenda and you so called educated ones fall for it every single time. Enough is ENOUGH already! The bill was passed and we have a new health care system. DEAL WITH IT!

No, I would say the opposite of this is true. It means the Dems completely own this. All the negatives that occur, even if they come in to play 6 years from now, once the Obamanation is out of office. Republicans can just point to it and say, what, you were the ones that voted for a Dem, you don't like it, vote Republican in the future.

Interesting twist on it. I guess the Dems do own it because the none of the Reps voted for it.

In fact, it seems the Reps are against pretty much everything that Obama breathes on. In my opinion, this is not good in the long run for the Rep party. The Reps are better than that. They are shooting themselves in the foot.

Of course there will be negatives. Thats to be expected. This is a huge change. But I think the point the Dems are trying to make is the positives outweigh the negatives. Point being, this is a great first step in changing a health care system that was broken.

There's nothing like VAT, consumption tax or GST.

The Obama govt. knows it's not going to be realistic discussing introducing it.

Oh, it's coming, don't you worry. All the models of socialized medicine out there have something similar. I lived nine miles from the Canadian border. We used to go there for dental care as it was cheaper than getting it in the States. But have a look at your average bill when in Canada buying anything and notice the several lines of taxes added on to what the initial cost is. I think there is more truth in the statement 'there is no such thing as a free lunch' than people ever want to see or admit to.

Care to double down, sir?

I'm kind of short right now, you'll cover us, right? ;-)

Taka

We tried that with defense spending.

Care to double down, sir?

Again, darknight

@skipthesong Sounds like you're pissed because the bill will actually provide help, training and medical assistance to the underprivileged." Yeah I can see how an elitist would say that's wrong. Perhaps you nor anyone in your family has ever suffered from not being able to afford health care." My father died in 89, he never really had any great job but was a founding member of PLP. My mom went nuts for several years and we went on welfare. For all our care, it was free as it is for a lot of members in my family today, who chose to get knocked up young and unmarried and get high instead of school. BTW, I'm not Anglo, do I don't know how you can paint an elitest pic of me. That's doesn't apply to us.

I personally watched my favorite Aunt slowly die while I was in Basic Training in the Navy because we couldn't afford to get her higher on the list for a heart transplant. Apparently good health care is only for the rich and privileged. Until you've watched a loved one die because you couldn't afford to provide adequate HC, you will never understand. For you and people like you it's all numbers and theories."

Look, I don't want to come down on you but you last par shows you did not read the bill at all. Do you really think this bill is going to bring down the cost of such care you aunt needed within the next 20 years? If you find that it does, shoot over the section and line number and I will apologize publicly here on JT.

Now, where the bill is good is that is going to force many clinics to buy new devices and that's good for business.

Hey DarkNight,

If you want to start on the name calling we can spend all night. You listed nothing relevent and have not proved me wrong.... I told you Japan NHC rations, you failed to prove me wrong. I laid out what you can not get done here, and where 90% go if such care is needed.

You're the one being ig

R

eally?! Is that the best you could come up with? I've listed many reasons why I was for spending X amount of dollars for health care." You listed nothing

And now you've ignorantly come to the conclusion that I like Obama and that I'm in favor of this bill because it comes from him." Prove me wrong. Don't get mad, that not really bad thing. I mean this has to be the first time a government official has the status where it should and that being above American Idol.

So let me say it again for the illiterate who don't seem to read the rest of my posts." So sorry I don't get to JUST YOUR POSTS. I'll try to make an exception.

The government will ALWAYS spend money, so if they are going to spend money anyway," Since you are so hyped on me not reading your posts, how about looking back at mine, I want both dems and repubs out. The entire lot. The more we can get out the more difficult its going to be for lobbist to work their deals, which if you read my post above you'll see how the big pharma and the insurance companies made out better than you would like them to have.

I would rather it be for something that benefits me and my family directly unlike a war on foreign soil that adds absolutely nothing to my life or the future of my children. " Then read the bill which is now on the online version of WSJ.

I could care less who initiated the bill." Have you bothered looking at what others have tried to pass? Have you compared it against how some states could have implemented a better plan in each state? No.

If they are trying to better the present health care system, I'm all for it." Well, actually its not as better as you belived, again if you bothered reading in to it instead of getting hyped. Oh, its better for the insurance companies and big pharma

Now it may not be a perfect bill but at least it's a step in the right direction." Ok, this goes back to my first accusation, since when have we ever seen laws get better in the US? I'm in my 30's. I have yet to see government get anything better.

People are afraid of change and I would agree that a cautious move is always the best, but seeing how our health care system is not working as is, perhaps it's time we tried something new." Then wouldn't a step by step version such as state by state been better given things as as they are?

Reps love to scare people from change with nonsensical argument and propaganda." So do dems, don't act like a product of siblings. You are just falling for their propaganda.

And just for the record I'm neither Dem or Rep. Not that it's anyone's business, but I voted for Ron Paul because I thought he was the best candidate not because of his political party." I would have voted for him had he been Hispanic. Everything was fine with him except I wanted a non-white for once. I'm kind of regretting it but not fully.

@skipthesong Sounds like you're pissed because the bill will actually provide help, training and medical assistance to the underprivileged. Yeah I can see how an elitist would say that's wrong. Perhaps you nor anyone in your family has ever suffered from not being able to afford health care. I personally watched my favorite Aunt slowly die while I was in Basic Training in the Navy because we couldn't afford to get her higher on the list for a heart transplant. Apparently good health care is only for the rich and privileged. Until you've watched a loved one die because you couldn't afford to provide adequate HC, you will never understand. For you and people like you it's all numbers and theories.

Skip,

Thanks for the post. On the bright side just think of how more lawyers just employed with making sure this atrocity is "legal" now on top of all the bloat already in our present system.

Let's face reality, you are more with this because it comes from obama. Had it come from any other politician/prez, you would probably have been in my court playing with my ball.

Really?! Is that the best you could come up with? I've listed many reasons why I was for spending X amount of dollars for health care. And now you've ignorantly come to the conclusion that I like Obama and that I'm in favor of this bill because it comes from him. So let me say it again for the illiterate who don't seem to read the rest of my posts. The government will ALWAYS spend money, so if they are going to spend money anyway, I would rather it be for something that benefits me and my family directly unlike a war on foreign soil that adds absolutely nothing to my life or the future of my children. I could care less who initiated the bill. If they are trying to better the present health care system, I'm all for it. Now it may not be a perfect bill but at least it's a step in the right direction. People are afraid of change and I would agree that a cautious move is always the best, but seeing how our health care system is not working as is, perhaps it's time we tried something new. Reps love to scare people from change with nonsensical argument and propaganda. And just for the record I'm neither Dem or Rep. Not that it's anyone's business, but I voted for Ron Paul because I thought he was the best candidate not because of his political party.

the massive law is the extension of health care coverage to 32 million who now lack it

The 32 million uninsured are that way because they are either unemployable or lack the drive to get a better job where they can pay for their insurance like the rest of us. So, ObamaCare now allows these 32 million to not worry about either finding work or seeking a job that pays better because Mommy Nancy and Daddy Barack will take care of them. Heh, promoting irresponsibility among the freeloaders within American society is a democrat trait.

30061015, you are right, but here's a start: What the government will require you to do:

• Sec. 202 (p. 91-92) of the bill requires you to enroll in a "qualified plan." If you get your insurance at work, your employer will have a "grace period" to switch you to a "qualified plan," meaning a plan designed by the Secretary of Health and Human Services. If you buy your own insurance, there's no grace period. You'll have to enroll in a qualified plan as soon as any term in your contract changes, such as the co-pay, deductible or benefit.

• Sec. 224 (p. 118) provides that 18 months after the bill becomes law, the Secretary of Health and Human Services will decide what a "qualified plan" covers and how much you'll be legally required to pay for it. That's like a banker telling you to sign the loan agreement now, then filling in the interest rate and repayment terms 18 months later.

On Nov. 2, the Congressional Budget Office estimated what the plans will likely cost. An individual earning $44,000 before taxes who purchases his own insurance will have to pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, which is 17% of his pre-tax income. A family earning $102,100 a year before taxes will have to pay a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20% of its pre-tax income. Individuals and families earning less than these amounts will be eligible for subsidies paid directly to their insurer.

• Sec. 303 (pp. 167-168) makes it clear that, although the "qualified plan" is not yet designed, it will be of the "one size fits all" variety. The bill claims to offer choice—basic, enhanced and premium levels—but the benefits are the same. Only the co-pays and deductibles differ. You will have to enroll in the same plan, whether the government is paying for it or you and your employer are footing the bill.

• Sec. 59b (pp. 297-299) says that when you file your taxes, you must include proof that you are in a qualified plan. If not, you will be fined thousands of dollars. Illegal immigrants are exempt from this requirement.

• Sec. 412 (p. 272) says that employers must provide a "qualified plan" for their employees and pay 72.5% of the cost, and a smaller share of family coverage, or incur an 8% payroll tax. Small businesses, with payrolls from $500,000 to $750,000, are fined less.

Eviscerating Medicare:

In addition to reducing future Medicare funding by an estimated $500 billion, the bill fundamentally changes how Medicare pays doctors and hospitals, permitting the government to dictate treatment decisions.

• Sec. 1302 (pp. 672-692) moves Medicare from a fee-for-service payment system, in which patients choose which doctors to see and doctors are paid for each service they provide, toward what's called a "medical home."

The medical home is this decade's version of HMO-restrictions on care. A primary-care provider manages access to costly specialists and diagnostic tests for a flat monthly fee. The bill specifies that patients may have to settle for a nurse practitioner rather than a physician as the primary-care provider. Medical homes begin with demonstration projects, but the HHS secretary is authorized to "disseminate this approach rapidly on a national basis."

A December 2008 Congressional Budget Office report noted that "medical homes" were likely to resemble the unpopular gatekeepers of 20 years ago if cost control was a priority.

• Sec. 1114 (pp. 391-393) replaces physicians with physician assistants in overseeing care for hospice patients.

• Secs. 1158-1160 (pp. 499-520) initiates programs to reduce payments for patient care to what it costs in the lowest cost regions of the country. This will reduce payments for care (and by implication the standard of care) for hospital patients in higher cost areas such as New York and Florida.

• Sec. 1161 (pp. 520-545) cuts payments to Medicare Advantage plans (used by 20% of seniors). Advantage plans have warned this will result in reductions in optional benefits such as vision and dental care.

• Sec. 1402 (p. 756) says that the results of comparative effectiveness research conducted by the government will be delivered to doctors electronically to guide their use of "medical items and services."

Questionable Priorities:

While the bill will slash Medicare funding, it will also direct billions of dollars to numerous inner-city social work and diversity programs with vague standards of accountability.

• Sec. 399V (p. 1422) provides for grants to community "entities" with no required qualifications except having "documented community activity and experience with community healthcare workers" to "educate, guide, and provide experiential learning opportunities" aimed at drug abuse, poor nutrition, smoking and obesity. "Each community health worker program receiving funds under the grant will provide services in the cultural context most appropriate for the individual served by the program."

These programs will "enhance the capacity of individuals to utilize health services and health related social services under Federal, State and local programs by assisting individuals in establishing eligibility . . . and in receiving services and other benefits" including transportation and translation services.

• Sec. 222 (p. 617) provides reimbursement for culturally and linguistically appropriate services. This program will train health-care workers to inform Medicare beneficiaries of their "right" to have an interpreter at all times and with no co-pays for language services.

• Secs. 2521 and 2533 (pp. 1379 and 1437) establishes racial and ethnic preferences in awarding grants for training nurses and creating secondary-school health science programs. For example, grants for nursing schools should "give preference to programs that provide for improving the diversity of new nurse graduates to reflect changes in the demographics of the patient population." And secondary-school grants should go to schools "graduating students from disadvantaged backgrounds including racial and ethnic minorities."

• Sec. 305 (p. 189) Provides for automatic Medicaid enrollment of newborns who do not otherwise have insurance.

No one here can even say what is really in the 2000 some pages of Obamacare. If a 938 billion start up with no attempt to set limits on spending doesnt scare the hell outta you, that should.

Nessie,

By that logic, we should spend ten times more on health care and really benefit all Americans. In fact, we should just make health care the only industry. That's the ticket

We tried that with defense spending.

Taka

So, are we still thinking this is a fair deal? Here is an e-mail I got from a friend back in the US:

"bill closes the so-called Medicare Part D donut hole. Seniors will get a $250 check from the government this year and $500 next year as the government works to automatically fund the gap. Now we also know that the pharmaceutical companies are being taxed to the tune of 90 billion over 10 years... so why did the pharma companies support the plan? Because the federal money used to close the donut hole can only be uses to buy brand name drugs, not generics! So the pharma companies make back every single dime - they were bought off. Ask yourself - how does denying seniors the right to purchase generics lower healthcare costs? Of course it doesn’t - it was a bribe and a ruse."

"In addition, dems blocked drug re-importation from Canada to buy pharma support"

Dark Knight, I guess you haven't been following the news in japan too much in fact, as per your comparison, I suggest you do more reading, readily available at any book store on the state of JNHC. As for your hair transplant, heck Japan has only started doing transplants on a very limited basis. Now, bring in a kid, this is what our leaders said it was for, and should he/she under the age of 15 be given a transplant. No, in fact they too go to the US.

Now, I did not say it was bad, but this system does lack a whole lot and in addition, the new law doesn't even come close to being in the same league as Japan nor any country for that matter.... the US has to be the only country to hand a whopping biz on a silver platter to the insurance companies.... So, we can count on them filling the dems pockets this coming Nov, just like big pharma.. Not a bad strategy I would say. Which is why I can agree with Sushi that the repubs are doomed. They will be out spent.

Let's face reality, you are more with this because it comes from obama. Had it come from any other politician/prez, you would probably have been in my court playing with my ball.

Bottom line; any amount of money spend on Health Care is a benefit to ALL Americans

By that logic, we should spend ten times more on health care and really benefit all Americans. In fact, we should just make health care the only industry. That's the ticket.

Molenir: taxed to death

I'm Swiss. Switzerland is not socialist and we are taxed to death.

For all American, the only thing I can say is that it going to be financial nightmare in the future. European countries have a lot of problem with their health care in their budget but everyone has the right to be insured. This is for the common good.

@ manfromamerica The HAS and always WILL do that anyway. You're naive to think that it doesn't. So to now raise a stink because the money is being "redistributed" as Health Care benefits is what makes your argument pretty nonsensical. I'd rather have my money being used to help me and the millions of other Americans who need health care than to have have used for fighting useless wars. Let me repeat that; The government will USE your money whether you want them to or not and they WILL spend money, if not for this bill, then for something else. So if they are going to USE or SPEND money anyway, I'd rather it be spend on something that affects my life in a positive way by helping me cope with rising health care concerns.

sushi: "94 illion " -- you need to check your numbers.

darkknight: "Wow! It's Socialist to take a little money from [whomever the government wants to] and [redistribute] it [to whomever the government wants to]" --> Yes

now that they've passed it, will the Dems finally read the bill?

As for your comparision on Japan vice the US, well, as a spouse of a doctor here, you couldn't be further from the truth. guess what, Japan does ration health care and medicine, they will refuse treatment to you under a multitude of circumstances.

Oh really? Don't know who your wife is, but I've been living here in Japan for 24 years. Never been refused health care for any reason whatsoever. Just to be clear, we are talking about the National Health Care System right? I'm not talking about private insurance companies. I don't even remember filling out a detailed form about any health conditions I might have prior to joining the Nationalized scheme. So please give examples of under what circumstances I might be refused (as per your doctor wife). I mean obviously if I want to have hair transplant surgery, I don't think it will be covered.

Moderator: Readers, please stay on topic. References to Japan are not relevant.

Wow! It's Socialist to take a little money from everyone and spend it on Health Care so that EVERYONE can afford to be treated, but it's Democratic to take a lot of money from everyone, bankrupting many in the process, and spend it on making the rich richer and two wars that were started without congress's consent (one of which had nothing to do with other and was based on lies about WMDs). Maybe my understanding of Democracy is all screwed up, but I think that helping common people is the most democratic thing a government can do. I didn't vote for (and was totally opposed to) any of those wars and yet my money is being spent on them anyway. How the heck is that democratic?

darknightnine: having a health care system put in place is not a bad thing. In fact, I'd go as far as saying a single payer is not an overly bad thing. that's not my gripe. My gripe is being forced to pay a higher premium and the whole argument being against the insurance companies when in fact they are the biggest beneficiaries to this new law. So, they can't refuse you for an existing condition now? Well of course they won't need to because they can now follow the fed rules and not state rules as well as having more money by a pool created by the fed.

As for your comparision on Japan vice the US, well, as a spouse of a doctor here, you couldn't be further from the truth. guess what, Japan does ration health care and medicine, they will refuse treatment to you under a multitude of circumstances.

@ Helter_Skelter: Your argument is ridiculous! First of all our military in Iraq and Afghanistan aren't protecting any Americans. They are protecting the monetary interest (namely oil profits) of the selected few. National Security my arse!!!

Additionally our government handed out huge bailouts to big businesses only to have their Executives turn around and misuse the money. This is the first time in a long time that money is actually being allotted to helping the common people with real and immediate needs. Most Americans can't afford Health Care and even the ones who can, are often refused coverage by their insurance companies when they actually need it most and/or become seriously ill. This is what a lawless privatized health care system has gotten us. Morally corrupt Insurance Companies whose only goal is to make a profit and leave sick Americans bankrupted and twisting in the wind. Yeah I can see how that's better.

The purpose of government is to govern. To protect people from the exact kind of corrupt situations that our privatized health care system has created. What idiot thinks that the primary purpose of the government is military? Hmmm sounds like maybe you should be living in Cuba, China or North Korea.

You people are almost as bad as the politicians and a prime example of what's wrong with America. You sit here attacking each other over irrelevant issues. Bottom line; any amount of money spend on Health Care is a benefit to ALL Americans Dems, Reps or otherwise. We spend money on stupid wars that have absolutely no benefit to any American whatsoever and everyone thinks that's OK, but when a President wants to take care of an issue that affects virtually every single American, that's somehow wrong? How stupid do you have to be to come to that conclusion? Take care of home first. That's just common sense. And for anyone who thinks Government Sponsored Health Care doesn't work, well you're living in a country (Japan) that it absolutely works. My only question is what took us so long?

sailwind, Your points are spot on! If the people I know back in the States have been able to scam the existing welfare system that we have and get benefits that they are not entitled to, then the scenario you just mentioned is bound to happen.

There is no National sales tax, there are 50 different State sales tax rates.

True, there is no national sales tax or VAT in the US. Actually, in four states there is no state sales tax as well: Alaska, Montana, New Hamshire, and Oregon. http://www.usa-sales-use-tax-e-commerce.com/table_sales_rates.asp

well, I really hope for the die hard supporters sake, you know the ones that really didn't read the bill through and through, have now, as of yesterday, went out and at the very least purchased some health care - even if you live which was established yesterday you will still be required to pay into it (I guess Obama care is superior to J-care).

If you have not gone out and purchased it by the time you read this post, you are clearly a hypocrite. I am sure someone will come back and say they can't afford but hey, if you live here, you most likely are making about 100k a year so suck it up like the rest of will. We will now have to, not by choice, pay for two health cares. I don't mind for the most part as I've always paid into it, but by choice.

Now get out there and start buying some health coverage. It is now your patriotic duty. come on, don't be a hypocrite.

it's immoral, un-Christian, and un-American to be OK with financing wars but not health care for our own.

First, the absolute primary role of the federal government is ensure the nation's national security. The military is the highest priority of the federal government. The federal government has no business being in the health care business. But even today, federal government spending on entitlement programs far exceeds that of the military, and the libs still aren't satisfied.

Un-chrisitan and un-American? It's American Christians who are opposed to Obamacare. They don't want to bankrupt their government and nation in order to produce a national system of poor quality healthcare. Hopefully it's their morality that will put end to this socialist garbage Obama brought to the White House.

What would there be to prevent people waiting until they get a catastrophic illness to buy health insurance?

Interesting point. The penailty for not having insurance under Obamacare will be 750 dollars. An average insurance premium for one person over a year is say 2 to 3 thousand dollars. What in this now law of the land would prevent a person from taking the cheaper penality deal. Picture this, A person has an accident and ends up in the hospital, buys a policy from his hospital bed phone and makes the first month premium payment and bam! Covered 100% percent. Then he gets out of the hospital and drops all coverage again because the penality is actually the 'cheaper deal'. You haven't seen nothing yet of the un-intended bad consequences of this bill. People will game the system they're pretty ingenious that way. To bad this bill didn't try to reform healthcare by tapping into that ingenuity in a way that would have been positive and really and truly reduce costs instead.

Most other developed countries have managed to afford universal public health care systems. It's a question of guns or butter for America.

The neo-cons have said they wanted a law that would prevent insurance companies from dropping a person who develops an expensive condition or refusing to insure someone with preexisting health problems. If what they want would happen, there would be no law requiring people to have health insurance. What would there be to prevent people waiting until they get a catastrophic illness to buy health insurance?

And I thought it was a fairly neutral site too. Huffington Post, turns out its just another Liberal shill site! :D

sailwind is the one posting realclearpolitics as a source. (and worst) Now he is complaining about sources?????

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/

What a 'horrible' right wing biased site. They even have a Huffington post article in the top news section they've linked to for balance.

But let them stew. America will hand the Repubs their asses again this November; just give us a second to finish putting the pink gift wrap on them.

Can I just say, how much I'm looking forward to November. I'm looking forward to your stewing about the defeat, and the Republicans coming back from the dead.

If this bill has done anything, it has exposed the eye-watering hypocrisy of those who oppose it, primarily conservatives.

Oh, and I thought it was doing a great job exposing the rank stupidity of the people on the left. If you support it, and actually see what its going to do, then obviously you're an idiot, or a socialist. Theres pretty much no one else in favor of the bill. Only the gullible fools, and the ideologues.

If conservatives were REALLY concerned about big government spending, they'd have been out in the streets protesting the $2-3 TRILLION poured into the wars under the previous GOP administration.

Er, you do realize the total price tag was under a trillion right. Or obviously not since you threw out this random number.

And if conservatives were REALLY concerned about being forced to purchase services they might not like, they would be getting their states to launch class action lawsuits against car and house insurance companies.

Or get them to pass legislation to rein in lawsuits. Rather like Texas. Amazing how the number of doctors throughout the rest of the country is dropping, but increasing in Texas.

sailwind is the one posting realclearpolitics as a source. (and worst) Now he is complaining about sources?????

Talking Points Memo?

Sheesh.......Talk about the Left's clone version of Rush Limbaugh.

Best pro-American article I've ever read: http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/a/m/americandad/2010/03/an-open-letter-to-conservative.php

The GOP lawsuits are - like their authors - headed for failure.

nisegaijin, thanks for the youtube feed. Enjoyed seeing some intellect on an otherwise boring thread

Just wait until the American public does not see any of the scare tactics come to fruition. They will realize the Republicans were just lying as usual. No socialism arriving in our country. Nobody forced to leave their existing coverage behind. There is plenty of time for the scare tactics to be tested out in the months to come before the election.

Final verdict: Conservatives = liars! And that is a "f---ing big deal."

A true tragic day for capitalism and liberty. Founding Fathers wouldn't like this.

I hate the neocons just as much as the liberals, but this will wipe the country out economically.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPADFNKDhGM

Sushi,

Obama just added 1 trillion on top of that.

ARE YOU KIDDING?

Sailwind - I guess we can all now Blame Bush for not being able to afford this bill after all and give Obama a pass for getting into law anyway."

Sail, are you honestly saying bush and the GOP are NOT somehow responsible for this fiscal blowout?

You're saying the $6 trillion the previous GOP afministration spend DIDN'T have any significant effect?

ARE YOU KIDDING??

Sushi - Ya think that's bad? Have you seen McCain's infantile response to the Health Care Victory?

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2010/03/23/2237627.aspx

But, I do see what you're saying, quite clearly in fact. And I agree with you - it's immoral, un-Christian, and un-American to be OK with financing wars but not health care for our own. Disgusting.

But let them stew. America will hand the Repubs their asses again this November; just give us a second to finish putting the pink gift wrap on them.

What is it with you consevatives/independants?

Pouring $2-3 trillon into a couple of wars was A-OK, but paying a mere 94 illion a year for universal health insurance for your own people is somehow the work of the Devil?

Just words. Just speeches.

Just the law.

Molenir - "Throw in the new health care taxes, and its certainly not going to get any better."

Unless you get sick, have an accident, can't work for some reason, your employer cancels your health insurance pan, your kid gets ill and needs treatment, you have a pre-existing condition that health insurance companies refuse to pay for, or you get hit by a bus.

Molenir - "and we're already being taxed to death!"

SOB! sob, sob! :-)

Democrats didn't just get a health-care-related boost in the realm of public opinion. The Democratic National Committee reported raising more than $1 million in donations on Tuesday even without making a direct ask. The money is expected to pour in for other campaign committees as well.

Sail, Americans don't pay any sales tax. Almost evey other developer country charges citizens a sals tax.

Almost every state in the union has a sales tax. While theres currently no national sales tax, there have been talks about implementing one. Hopefully not for a long time if ever though. I pay about 8 cents to my state government for every dollar I spend. Thats in sales taxes. So 8 out of 100 goes to the government. Thats my state government. Add on taxes on everything else, and we're already being taxed to death! Throw in the new health care taxes, and its certainly not going to get any better.

Everyone's premiums will increase quite a bit. Boy, that'll teach those evil insurance companies and the pharmacueticals.

Heh, the democrats sure showed everyone who's the boss.

There's nothing like VAT, consumption tax or GST.

The Obama govt. knows it's not going to be realistic discussing introducing it.

Sail, Americans don't pay any sales tax

Where did you get that idea? Americans pay sales tax, except in a few place like the tiny state of Delaware.

Sail - "This Bill just adds yet another hit on the average Joe on top of all the tax hits Federal and State combined."

But you'll agree that "yet another hit on the average Joe" is way better than Joe being uninsured and being hit by a disease or having an accident, no insurance to pay the bill and going bankrupt, no?

Americans will get used to paying health insurance - just like you pay car and house insurance - and get over it like the rest of the developed world that has had univesal healthcare for years.

Honestly, the reaction from the Right in America has been a real eye-opener.

I know it's partly because many Americans have a strong independant streak and do not like government telling them what to do or how to behave, but if you took out government/state-run institutions and organizations, you would kiss goodbye to the military, public schools, libraries, pools, medicare, medicaid, highways, and a whole host of other structures that are critical for life in America.

It's worth thinking about.

Sail, Americans don't pay any sales tax. Almost evey other developer country charges citizens a sals tax.

If you want to talk about high taxes, try Norway or Switzerland.

Americans - relatively - have it lucky.

Thanks sailwind. If SS3 really wants to make a discovery about state taxes in the US perhaps he'll take time to look at this:

http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/tax_stru.html

If America's finances are in trouble, it's mostly due to 65 years of contributing to the military-industrial complex welfare fund, which include cost overruns on white elephant R&D hardware projects and more recently, getting bogged down in costly, unnecessary and undeclared foreign wars without increasing taxes to pay for them. The Soviet Union "lost" the Cold War because it ran out of money first. But the U.S. was also bled white, as evidenced by its hollowed out cities, crumbling transport infrastructure and deficit-ridden government services.

Sushi,

Just for your information.

All 50 states may use similar methods to fund their budgets -- taxes on income, sales, property, fuel, alcohol, tobacco -- but each does so with its own formula.

The differences can be extreme. If you lived in Wyoming, the least-taxed state, you'd pay about $7 out of every $100 to the governor. In New Jersey, on the other end of the scale, you'd fork out $12. On average, state and local governments combine to loosen nearly 10% of your income from your grasp.

This Bill just adds yet another hit on the average Joe on top of all the tax hits Federal and State combined.

Sail, 'all the other taxes' ? America doesn't even have a sales tax. I don't see your point. Are you saying Americans are taxed more than people in other countries? They're not.

The average state sales tax on a gallon of gas on top of the 18.4 cents Federal tax is 27.2 cents per gallon. That is a total of 45.6 cents of tax on one gallon of gas. There is no National sales tax, there are 50 different State sales tax rates. How do think local and State Governments get their funding? That is on top of all the Federal taxes that Americans have to pay. There is no free lunch.

By standing in solidarity the Republicans gambled big time...and they lost big time.

No, I would say the opposite of this is true. It means the Dems completely own this. All the negatives that occur, even if they come in to play 6 years from now, once the Obamanation is out of office. Republicans can just point to it and say, what, you were the ones that voted for a Dem, you don't like it, vote Republican in the future.

Ain't nothing 'Free' somebody is getting stuck with the bill and that is called Taxes.

So true Sailwind. So very true. This is going to bite people in the butt. Much higher payroll taxes, higher medicare taxes, more fees, have to purchase insurance that the government approves of, or be fined lots of money. No, theres nothing free about this, and the cost is going to be prohibitive. Tweaking Medicare to pay for this, merely hides the costs temporarily. The CBO numbers are for 6 years of spending over 10 years. Meaning, 10 years of taxes, 6 years of payments. If you think the congress is going to save the money for the first 4 years, you're delusional. Probably still believe in the social security "lockbox" fairy too. To say nothing of the Doc Fix Dems must pass or the whole system crashes. Estimates on that are that it could cost upwards of 200 billion. Deficit neutral? Not even close.

I get what the Dems are doing. When I screw up at work, I don't emphasize my failures, but rather the good things I'm doing. I think everyones the same. Republicans are looking at this and seeing all the horrible things in the bill, the Dems are trying to preach about its positives. They of course want to keep their jobs, so they empasize the positive, and put most of the negatives off til 2013 after the Presidential election, and the worst stuff off until 2018.

To be fair, there are positives in the bill, I don't think anyone will disagree with that. Most people support for example, preventing insurance companies from denying coverage due to pre-existing conditions, even if its only for young children and not the adults who actually need this. Most people are in favor of allowing young adults to stay on their parents insurance. Though if you're 26 and haven't got insurance on your own, something is usually wrong, but hey, things happen. 26 is generous, but fine. But while there are good things in this, the bad so far outweighs the good, that its hard to notice.

Pardon the graphic metaphor. Its like being given a mud pie, and having a few chocolate sprinkles added on top. There may be some chocolaty goodness in there, but you're still eating dirt.

Sail, 'all the other taxes' ? America doesn't even have a sales tax. I don't see your point. Are you saying Americans are taxed more than people in other countries? They're not.

On the campaign trail, Obama promised voters the "public will have five days to look at every bill that lands on my desk" before he signs it into law.

Just words. Just speeches.

It's 8.40am. The sky hasn't fallen. Conservatives are safe for now... I'll try to remember to look out the window at 9am and give the conservatives another Sky Report. :-)

Those who argue that this bill is a step toward socialism enjoy the benefits of socialized programs every day. If you look at America's interstate highway system, it's FREE - no tolls like many countries. How about public education? I don't see people paying tuition for that.

Look up the Federal gas tax per gallon....It's 18.4 cents added to every gallon of gas pumped into a car. Then look up property taxes on the average home owner to see were the cash comes from for public education..........Ain't nothing 'Free' somebody is getting stuck with the bill and that is called Taxes. And by the way these two taxes is on top all the other taxes the average American gets hit with and this Healthcare bill just added another another to the average Joe.

By standing in solidarity the Republicans gambled big time...and they lost big time.

Conservatives fear an expansion of government and costs they say will bankrupt the country, despite an estimate from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office that the law will cut federal budget deficits by an estimated $143 billion over a decade.

I think I will go with the nonpartisan findings.

Read David Plouffe's "The Audacity to Win" and read how Obama has been committed to health care reform since his days in the Illinois legislature.

It's time that ALL Americans have access to health care coverage, not just the rich and those with jobs. Insurance companies denying coverage to those with pre-existing conditions are only looking out for themselves, not their potential customers.

Those who argue that this bill is a step toward socialism enjoy the benefits of socialized programs every day. If you look at America's interstate highway system, it's FREE - no tolls like many countries. How about public education? I don't see people paying tuition for that.

Another example of the party of "No."

Not bad for a 1-term senator from Chicago and former community organizer. Glenn Beck, Rush Limppbaugh and a rather odd band of largely misinformed conservatives calling themselves Tea Partiers have been left fuming about big government spending. Strangely, they said nothing when the GOP burnt through $6 trillion. The GOP bet everything on the Dems not passing this bills.

The GOP lost.

Again.

And have nothing to show as achievements.

Meanwhile, the midterms are only 8 months away.

The GOP is in real trouble.