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© 2013 AFPObama summons leaders for debt ceiling crisis talks
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JTDanMan
And yet more great news for Team Democrat and America. The latest numbers are in:
Barely one in five Americans (21 percent) approve of the way Republicans in Congress are handling negotiations over the budget, while nearly three quarters disapprove (74 percent). Disapproval is up from 63 percent since the start of the shutdown, after reaching 70 percent last week. Disapproval of congressional Democrats has also risen by a smaller amount — 56 to 61 percent — as the shutdown has continued, owing in large part to greater approval among fellow Democrats.
These numbers show that Republicans are taking the worst of it. Not only are their raw numbers by far the worst of the bunch, their rate of decline is faster than congressional Democrats or the president.
And that is why the Republicans, woops, I mean "independent conservatives" have given up.
Though they still don't quite know what that means. LOL
What dopes.
sfjp330
@JTDanMan
Blaming Republicans is so much fun when you can't face the disastrous results of an incompetent President. Yes, the Republicans will be marginalized. So quickly liberals forget the shellacking in the mid-term elections a few years ago. Same thing will happen again. Approval rating for Obama is low 37 percent? Most informed Americans know who to blame and why and it's not the Republicans. U.S. a broke nation and Harry Reid and his collegues won't tackle the debt and have never tried. They can't when you realize that their constituency is the entitlement population of America. Take away their benefits and they lose power. If any party wil die it will be the Democrat party. Eventually, the haves won't be able to support the have nots. It's always the death knell of a party. What Democrats are doing is unsustainable.
MarkG
It may seem the democrats won the hand. The will loose the game.
paulinusa
"So quickly liberals forget the shellacking in the mid-term elections a few years ago. Same thing will happen again. Approval rating for Obama is low 37 percent?"
sfjp330: Obama's not running in the next election.
JTDanMan
Paul
FYI Obama's approval rating is no where nears 37%.
globalwatcher
I am on the same page with Sen. Corker (R-Tenn). Amen to his courage to expose a failure of GOP strategy defunding Obamacare. As I said over and over on JT, the Obamacare is a done deal and should not be included for debt ceiling negotiation to begin with. I believe 2 months lead by Ted Cruz focusing on wrong issue ( defunding Obamacare) wasted most precious time for Americans.
sfjp330Oct. 15, 2013 - 07:34AM JST
You are so off for this issue, I do not know where to start. As far as Medicare goes, the cost has been well streamlined, and the seniors on Medicare are getting more care and pay less. There should not be any premium increase for 2014. We can expect the same principal will be applied to the Obamacare.
paulinusa
"Should the Democratic-led Senate coalesce on a deal, the question would then become could Boehner secure sufficient support from his restive conservative coalition in the House to send it to Obama’s desk?"
Well, Boehner will make some sort of demand to placate the tea party faction, but the question is if he'll then throw in his cards and allow a vote which would probably pass with a majority of democrats and maybe even have sizable republican support. This'll allow the tea party to vote nay. But how far would he allow this to go on and drag the country down?
Serrano
We might not have this situation if the national debt hadn't ballooned from about $10 trillion when Obama took office to about $17 trillion now...
sangetsu03
It is not this petty nonsense which is threatening the economy, it is the excessive deficit spending. It is the $16 trillion of debt which the last two administations have accumlated which is the real threat to the economy. The president had proabably hoped to be out of office before the economic house of cards he has built fell in. If there is no deal, it is is going to fall squarely on his head. The republicans may have pushed things to this point, but Obama is the president, and he is one who is responsible in the end.
globalwatcher
SerranoOct. 15, 2013 - 09:39AM JST
We did not have a choice. I can recall every step we had to take to come to this point. No money has been wasted.
JTDanMan
No, its the petty nonsense.
Owing money is one thing. Not paying is another thing entirely.
That this is so obvious, and yet contested by people who should know better, shows just how far the worms have spread.
globalwatcher
Hey, GOP, raise the debt ceiling and start paying. Raising the ceiling is necessary as this is for something we have already spent.
Serrano
"We did not have a choice. I can recall every step we had to take to come to this point. No money has been wasted."
Har!
globalwatcher
SerranoOct. 15, 2013 - 10:00AM JST
Why does it matter to you as you are living in Japan and are excused to pay any tax to US governments. You do not pay to Fed, State, County and City. Very interesting to me.
Wolfpack
@global:
Pay no attention to the CBO's dire forecast for the future of SS, Medicaid, and Medicare. It's all lies! Everything is fine just the way it is. That iceberg ahead is really just a mere ice cube. Let's continue spending recklessly and shackle the businesses that pay the taxes that fund the entitlement state - it's all good.
@globalwatcher:
You must be the only person on the planet that could possibly believe such an absurd statement. Yeah, and to think that the recession ended before any of Obama's non-shovel ready projects even started. He has spent over $7 trillion and counting all for what? To kick off America's very own lost decade. Oh yes, money well spent. Let's spend up another quick $7 trillion before Obama's term ends so our economy and really take off - maybe upwards of 2.1% annual growth! Yes, the economy has really been booming hasn't it?
@JTDanMan:
So then how can Obama not pay the money owed on the approximately $30 billion debt when monthly tax receipts average around $250 billion? It's a terrible way to run a nation but to purposely default on debt payments when the funds are available is just plain stupid.
MarkG
@global-
SerranoOct. 15, 2013 - 09:39AM JST
We might not have this situation if the national debt hadn't ballooned from about $10 trillion when Obama took office to about $17 trillion now...
We did not have a choice. I can recall every step we had to take to come to this point. No money has been wasted.
This is a joke right? I didn't laugh when I realized this was serious!
Where did that $10,000,000,000,000 go? I saw many companies fold that were granted billions only months prior. I saw local roadwork performed on roads that was not required, now worse than they were. Union labeler I might add.
For $10 trillion dollars I could have educated most if not all of the poor in the USA.
globalwatcher
WolfpackOct. 15, 2013 - 10:16AM JST
Since the government is shut down, we cannot get a COLA number. But based on July, Aug, Sept, we estimate the increase will be somewhere around 1.5% for 2014. I can only speak for Medicare here. As of today, we are expecting no premium increase for 2014 so far, but again the government is shut down, and no final calculation is available at this moment. All healthcare insurance providers are under pressure to continue internal structural reforms to do better.
SuperLib
The Republicans/independents/anarchists here just don't get it. They strapped a bomb to everyone's back and it goes off of Thursday. Meanwhile, they're giving speeches about the problem of long-term debt. Hostages don't worry about dying from heart disease a decade from now when the criminal has the gun pointed at their heads.
Let's see if we can get through the week in one piece, then you can get back on your soap boxes. You're destroying your party and there's a chance you could cause serious harm to the economy which would do nothing other than increase the deficit/debt even more. Surely you can see that.
MarkG
Out comes the Kool-Aid.....I will pass.
Why is it the liberals label most anyone with oppsing view with derogatory names. I've heard associations from Hitler to Bin Laden and more! VERY divisive. Trying to fragment the citizens?
globalwatcher
MarkGOct. 15, 2013 - 11:06AM JST
Mark, you should be able to find the websites for each year's budget. I always keep a State of Union Speech and each year's budget on my computer desk top to make sure we are on the right path. Let me know if you have any trouble finding them.
zurcronium
Looks like the republican terrorist crowd overplayed their hand on this one. Obamacare is law and it is working in states that are allowing it to work. California for example. And the republicans have stopped their war chants against it finally. Why anyone would vote for such a reckless and destructive party is amazing. We need adults running the US, not children who want to take their ball and go home and pout. Such losers really.
globalwatcher
<http://www.amazon.com/The-Party-Remaking-Republican-Conservatism/dp/019997554X>
The Tea Party and the Remaking of Republican Conservatism by by Vanessa Williamson
This is a very good book to read.
My intention to post the book above is that we have to admit the US democracy is in trouble due to a fact that these 40 Tea Party members are taking a whole country as hostage. It looks very silly to the world. Hope they are not tanking a global economy along with the US.
Laguna
While the American people may dislike politicians, they hold the political system in great esteem, and herein lies the problem for the GOP. Fringe radicals in that party of ensured that their party will not capture the presidency for the foreseeable future and are unlikely to capture the Senate; this leaves them with one-half of one branch of Congress (if we ignore, for the time being, the Supremes). Thus, in order to hold on to any bit of relevancy as a party, they must leverage what they have, and the only way to do that is to subvert the normal processes of government. For all their harking on the Founding Fathers, this is certainly not what they had in mind.
Thus is holding the line on concessions made under demand crucial for the Democrats and Obama, who is dealing not only with the current crises but with the balance of power between branches extending into quite the future. Compromise is good and necessary, but that should (and will) occur during normal negotiation. It would be nice to think that recalcitrant Republicans may take this as a lesson from their impending unmitigated surrender, but his is unfortunately unlikely, and this is why I am disappointed to see the debt ceiling extended for only a few months.
Come mid-February (or whenever the debt ceiling is bumped again), we can be fairly sure that Tea Partiers will knock themselves unconscious again. While this may be entertaining to watch, it is not particularly good for the country. The only long-term answer, it seems, is to eliminate gerrymandering by taking district-shaping prerogatives away from state legislatures and give them to state supreme courts. Don't hold your breath, though; we'll see plenty of Republican blood-letting before this ever comes to be.
sodesuka
TED CRUZ for PRESIDENT. House hold your ground. If government is shutdown the debt still must be paid. It is in the constitution. The house controls the purse and they do not have to fund everything. Just like when we have to budget at home. The Executive branch has to live with it and make due. So sorry. Republicans, stand firm. Perhaps go to Thanksgiving.
Laguna
I like that, sodesuka. You are correct: seeing as a budget is lacking, all Obama must fund are debt repayments and entitlements. (If there were a budget, Obama would be Constitutionally bound to adhere to that spending, and thus would face a Constitutional crisis, seeing as he would have to break the law whatever he did - but in its absence, the above two are the only legal requirements).
This would mean, of course, that the military would have to squabble with all other discretionary programs over the crumbs left over. I would guess the Pentagon would have to take a 70 - 80% haircut to ensure that President was able to follow the law.
Still like that plan?
bass4funk
@JTDan
Obama by the latest Pew poll is at 42% and the Republicans at 44% as far as handling this shutdown. hmmm, not that much of a gap, buddy. Also according to Gallup: Obama is at Approval 41% and disapproval at 53% that means half of the country is NOT happy with this President.
They never gave up, unlike the President giving in to that disastrous stunt of not paying the family of those fallen soldiers. Which caused Obama to drop in the polls. Also the Dems had to come in a bit to get a 6 week funding as negotiations are still going on.
Everyday when I wake up, I say the same thing about Liberals. EVERYDAY.
Yup!
Now you and I are on the same page, for once.
So you are saying, if you owe someone it's alright, not having to pay the money back, that's not important, so as long as you can get more handouts....uhh...cash?? This is what's fundamentally wrong with the Democratic party. Money means NOTHING TO THEM! I rest my case.
And that's why you lost the House, because for the first 2 years, Democrats have proven that they are not good at math or numbers or anything that has to do with capitol funds. Especially now more than ever!
@global
Yup, sure! After you Liberals promise to do some "major cuts," curtail the spending, which is beyond necessary, it's a must and a necessity!
@superlib
Sorry, it's Looney liberals that NEVER, EVER get it, they just want to country to turn into another California MadMax wasteland and they are doing a fantastic outstanding job at it. Go Liberals!!
Something that the Dems and in particular, this President after 5 years, refuses to talk about or address.
Now you understand how we Conservatives and Independents feel.
Super, hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the Dems already....still are destroying the country. Sadly, they don't see that.
@zurcronium
As if Republicans EVER had a chance in California, the once great state with the 5th largest economy, that once could have broken away from the union and had enough money and resources to keep it running until the liberals and Dems took power, now it's just a backdrop for another sequel to MadMax. California is just a smidge of what's to come for the rest of the country, Thank God for Texas! There is still hope.
They never stopped, never went anywhere at best, they are and will negotiate and try to sort out all this mess. Once the liberals come to their....Oh, never mind.
But you guys did and now look what we have in the White House. And we still have 2 1/2 more years of this nightmare to deal with.
Now you and I are on the same page. Let's both hope we can make until 2016
Laguna
What happens next should be clear, but enough variables remain to keep it interesting ("May you be born in interesting times," as the Chinese and concurrent Wall Street curse has it). Of course, Cruz could decide to filibuster whatever deal Reid and McConnell come up with (which looks to be basically a clean CR, meaning all the GOP Sturm und Drang will have been for naught, but he's unlikely to do so as he is so much more on empty gestures than real action: doing so would likely a Senate vote until past the Thursday deadline to raise the debt ceiling, meaning he and his allies would bear the brunt of any political consequences that might come from a default, including a potential dramatic downturn in the stock market and/or the world economy.
Conversely, allowing the deal to move through the Senate without a fight would cost Cruz his pugnacious conservative credentials, but I bet he's figuring people will forget that by the time he's up for re-election. Instead, he'll dump this in Boehner's lap. Boehner has managed to hang on to his "speakership" position by procrastinating any difficult decision, though by doing so, he has managed to accumulate a dozen impossible positions that must be resolved at once to prevent economic meltdown. His caucus will certainly go bananas when presented with the Senate clean CR, and the question is whether he will, in effect, fire himself by allowing it to pass with a Democratic majority, or whether he will take the country over the cliff with him. My guess is the former, but then, what makes this so entertaining is that the insanity of "conservative independents" has thus far found no bounds.
Hoola_Hoop_A_Cheerio
Blaming the debt crisis and government shutdown on 40 Tea Party members is absurd. How many seats are in congress, bro? Takes a majority to pass spending bills. Takes a president to sign them. Tea party has neither.
POLITICIANS and LOBBYISTS are to blame. Not Republicans or democrats. ALL OF THEM!!
Laguna
It may be incorrect but not so as to be absurd.
Clearly, most House Republicans fear most a primary challenge from the right, and as such, even if they abhor the Tea Party, they are too petrified to make a vocal stand against it. That is why it has to come to this late, late date: the choice must be between financial Armageddon or not. The Tea Party and its limited number of adherents are the cause of this.
The debt ceiling is a charade, so we can dispense with it; it is the budget that is important. Both parties would like to reduce the deficit; the GOP would like to do so rapidly and solely with spending cuts; the Democrats would like to do so gradually with a mix of revenue enhancements and spending cuts. Welcome to reality: A middle ground exists that will satisfy nobody but will get the job done. This is called "compromise," and it is done during budget reconciliation conferences, not by shutting down the government.
Boehner could open the government now if he'd send to the floor the clean CR already waiting in his docket, but he won't until he has to. Then, he will send to the floor the bill sent down from the Senate, which will be virtually identical to the legislation he already has. To blame this on the Democrats is farcical.
Hoola_Hoop_A_Cheerio
Clearly you missed my point.
But I like how you googled a synonym for absurd to add to your farcical post.
Blaming 40 individuals for the failings of an entire government is absurd. I don't care how many $500 words you google.
Madverts
Good luck denying the poll numbers come twelve months time Republican crazies when you're voted out in Lemming-esque fashion.
No American with a brain is going to forget the domestic terrorists in the GOP and the fear of it's own lunatic fringe that led to a gun to the head of the American people.
Enjoy the leap from the cliff and the blowback, you've truly earned this one.
Serrano
If only the U.S, government wasn't in debt to the tune of $17 trillion...
SuperLib
If Boehner calls a vote for a clean it will pass, but the Tea Party will immediately take steps to remove him from the Speaker position. More "moderate" Republicans won't, so he caters to the threat. It really is that cut and dry.
Serrano: If only the U.S, government wasn't in debt to the tune of $17 trillion...
You're reaching troll status.
bass4funk
@madverts
But denying the national debt is quite alright?
Right back at you, the Americans that didn't want this healthcare will remember it too.mi agree with Lindsey Graham, give you guys whatever you want, once that's done, you guys own it from next year, whatever happens from here on out will be on your heads ( and I already know how this thing is going to go)
You guys are already a step ahead of us, liberals move forward.
@super
I know talking about the debt is just so bad, why don't those pesky conservatives just forget it, we did.
hkitagawa
Where is JP Morgan? Perhaps he still can manage to finance US government.
plasticmonkey
@bass
Utter nonsense and indicative of a kindergarten-level of reading and reasoning skills. You are presumably referring to the Pew poll that finds that 44 percent want Republicans to agree to a deal without any changes to the Affordable Care Act, and 42 percent that want Obama to agree to a deal to reopen the government that includes some changes to Obamacare (and please notice that does not necessarily include repealing or defunding).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that still puts Republicans in a more negative light.
And, I might add, this poll says nothing of Americans' views of 'handling this shutdown'. You are getting desperate, my friend, as are your Tea Party 'independents' in the House.
You express disdain for the bias of supposedly liberal polls, and yet have no reservations about quoting them (and erroneously) when it suits you.
I would love to hear a reasoned response from you without your trademark deflections (e.g. "I say the same thing about Liberals") or childish hyperbole (e.g. "Democrats have proven that they are not good at math or numbers").
hkitagawa
Wow... the debt is too big even for JP Morgan. Too many trillions!
bass4funk
@plastic
Utter nonsense and indicative of a kindergarten-level of reading and reasoning skills. You are presumably referring to the Pew poll that finds that 44 percent want Republicans to agree to a deal without any changes to the Affordable Care Act, and 42 percent that want Obama to agree to a deal to reopen the government that includes some changes to Obamacare (and please notice that does not necessarily include repealing or defunding).
Talk about deflection. The polls do reflect a huge animosity for congress and both parties as well as the president, yes, the Repubs got the brunt of most of it, but still, the fact remains, Dems are NOT looking good, especially this president, whether you want to accept it or not.
And Dems not too far behind! you know the old saying, "when you sneeze...."
Sorry, wrong again, please try to stop changing euphanisms to suit your political bias. Anything that happened under GWB it was his fault and the buck stopped with him, Obama does ANYTHING wrong, he gets a pass, every time, it s never his fault, nothing is. But the harsh reality is Americans do understand and do blame the president for not taking the initiative to start negotiates to bring an end to this shut down! but as always! Obama is doing a Ferris Beuhler.
Sorry, I look at all polls, Rasmussen, Pew and Gallup, Fox, CNN, NBC no bias here.
I'm only childish to liberals when they try to act as if liberals are completely free from any wrong doing as if you liberals are THE only good thing for America, when in actuality, quite the opposite. When any non-liberal points out you guys constant and seriously annoying hyprocrisy, you guys love to dish it, but you can't take it. Hey, at least I can admit that conservatives aren't perfect, but liberals can't, they think they invented the universe.
jeff198527
We need leaders, not career politicians.
gelendestrasse
I'll agree with Jeff. What amuses me is how the partisan bickering in DC is mirrored by the discussion on this (and, I'm sure, other) boards. In other words, it's a democracy, we get what we deserve.....
MarkG
I also agree with Jeff. And not all lawyers either.
sfjp330
globalwatcherOct. 15, 2013 - 09:15AM JST You are so off for this issue, I do not know where to start. As far as Medicare goes, the cost has been well streamlined, and the seniors on Medicare are getting more care and pay less. There should not be any premium increase for 2014. We can expect the same principal will be applied to the Obamacare.
Obama's socialist health care will not work. Many young people that are currently working will be penalized at much higher cost in health care to support older population. Why should young people be penalized simply for being young? For sure, very few people wants this. And especially the healthy young people that will need to be in the system for it to work aren’t going to want it. Why would they? Why should they have to pay the same as someone who frequents hospitals when they haven't been to one in 15 years? I don’t think so. Remove the interstate regulation of health insurance and open it up to the market.
Wolfpack
I agree completely. I have yet to hear any logical reason for preventing health insurance competition across state lines.
bass4funk
Simple, because if they don't, the premiums will keep rising and rising, they need at least around 7 million subscribers (young and old to sign up) to properly implement the thing. The President promised you can keep your old policy, which isn't true. In Michigan 146,000 families (and counting) have been told they cannot keep their old policy. So basically for the thing to work, you need to have the maximum number of subscribers or the thing will implode. This is why EVERYONE has to get it, even young people that are completely healthy and wouldn't need it. If you are going to use the same Insurance rates, you need to have young people sign up as well.
Just to show how delusional and out of touch with reality Dems and Liberals are, even many Dems and liberals are now seeing what a bad thing this healthcare really is! Ezra Klein-strong supporter of the president, Obamacare, the man would go over the cliff, hardcore liberal, can't get more hardcore than this guy. Even HE said, the thing is a disaster!
http://youtu.be/JC2qgIAYdxs
SuperLib
If Republicans cared about younger people you'd create a platform that doesn't make them run away like their hair was on fire. But you don't.
bass4funk
But forcing them to buy into a healthcare system that the younger don't need or want, that WILL scare them away in due time. Liberals don't get it, but they will in about a year, that dog will bite.
globalwatcher
bass4funkOct. 16, 2013 - 11:37AM JST
And you are covered under Japanese National Health Care... very convincing, bass.
bass4funk
@global
Japan is NOT America and I have my own insurance from my company, which is NOT the NHC in Japan. Which I would never buy into.
cleo
If you live in Japan, the moment you lose/retire from your job, you become obliged to join the NHI? It's not something you choose to 'buy into'.....
bass4funk
But I don't and wouldn't and won't ever have to, so I will never know what it's like, because of my profession.
globalwatcher
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/10/16/dershowitz_what_ted_cruz_is_doing_is_deeply_unconstitutional.html
What Ted Cruz is doing to shut down the government is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
Yes, they were elected to RUN the government instead of shutting down.
bass4funk
@global
So what is the great commander-in-chiefs job? Oh, I keep forgetting, he's never present to count him in.
globalwatcher
bass4funkOct. 16, 2013 - 01:24PM JST
Because of my profession?
Bass, there is no exclusion for you. Unless you are in active duty, retired, civil servant, you are supposed to have NHI if you live in US. That's the main objective of Obamacare.
gcbel
Yep, because young people would NEVER have serious accidents, NEVER get serious diseases. God, what utter nonsense.
globalwatcher
sfjp330Oct. 16, 2013 - 06:46AM JST
I served in military and was sent to Vietnam war believing that I was fighting for my son, so he does not have to go to war and fight. I have a story to tell you, hope you understand what I am coming from.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/wounded-soldier-shows-stunning-grit-hospital-bed-salute-article-1.1487138
Gravely wounded soldier shows stunning grit with hospital bed salute