Obama turns focus to race against McCain, as Clinton struggles to keep campaign afloat

Perhaps Obama should give Hillery 20 mil to retire that enormous campaign death of hers. I am sure she will go away, she loves money.

David Axelrod said: “We’re at war. Our economy is in turmoil. And we’ve got so many challenges that the people of this country deserve a serious discourse.”

That’s for sure. America is in an unnecessary war started by the same individuals whose policies are steadily driving the U.S. economy into the dirt. And John McCain back those same failed policies.

But let’s take a closer look at Sen. McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee, and find out why he is the hero of the Right:

McCain graduated from the Naval Academy in 1958 - fifth from the bottom in class rank - 894th out of 899. Not a good start.

Then he crashed his plane into Corpus Christi Bay during a practice run in Texas as a naval aviator. In another accident, he emerged intact from a collision with power lines after flying too low over Spain in 1965. Going for a trifecta later that same year, McCain had a flameout in his trainer jet over Norfolk. He ejected but his plane crashed.

Then he was shot down in Vietnam in 1967 and sat in a POW camp for 5+ years.

Basically, McCain was a pretty bad pilot whose incompetence led to the destruction of a handful of planes.

Why is this relevant? His recklessness in a plane could translate into recklessness in the Oval Office.

But that wasn’t enough for John McCain - his first marriage then went down in flames like his planes did – due to extramarital affairs. (He later said: "My marriage's collapse was attributable to my own selfishness and immaturity.")

Now, John McCain is back. He’s every Republicans 3rd, 4th or 5th choice for nominee. He has voted for Democrats and supported their issues many times. He is not a man of faith. He is a divorcee who was not even born in America. He is a man with no credible economic plan to fix a tanking U.S. economy other than to leave the fates of 300 million Americans up to ‘market forces.’ He is a man who thinks it’s somehow wise to keep fighting ‘the terrorists” when even he has no idea whatsoever what “winning” looks like, or when – if ever – victory will be achieved.

In fact, it’s pretty scary to think that Sen. McCain thinks 'fighting the terrorists' in Iraq (consequently strengthening their cause) is more important than fighting for ordinary Americans in America.

Bottom line – Sen. John McCain is not physically, mentally or ethically up to the task of managing a tree house, let alone America.

I just can't help noticing that Republicans embrace the failures and incompetence of John McCain in the same way they embrace the failures and incompetence of the current President.

This is a disturbing pattern....

sushisake3 -

David Axelrod is one of Barry Obama's closest advisors.

You do know that?

nucular - of course.

I think Hillary Clinton is harming the Democratic Party with her stubborness; she lost and she should quit. I would blame her if the Republicans win the election.

USAinJapan - You really think 'incompetent pilots' become squadron CO's or make Captain (O-6)?"

McCain's daddy was an Admiral, but I'm sure that had nothing whatsoever to do with John McCain's rise up the ranks.

"Clear something up for me because I'm a little confused as to your nationality. You're not American right?"

Nationality is irrelevant. Whether one is American or not, the outcome of this election will effect you and your nation in some way.

"What gives, is this obsession of yours with US politics a pastime? A hobby?"

This is not an obsession - I have a fairly good understanding of economics and can clearly see how the actions adn policies of the next U.S. president will affect other economies.

I just wish some U.S citizens would take a stronger interest in their political future rather than just believing everything they are told.

BTW, I am not including yourself in the above.

Sushi, a lot of the stuff you said he backed, was also back by Hillary, and a whole lot of McCain stuff was backed by Ted Kennedy - including the war..So, you really can't use that point.

The economy mind you, is not really the policy of the president. There are a lot of democratic initiatives that have done just as bad and new ones that are going to do just as bad. Additionally, predatory lending would never have happened if two imparticular democrats didn't have their way! I will let you ponder.

I don't mind your hate, but please come up with some stuff that is more realistically damaging?

"Clinton struggles to keep campaign afloat"

I do believe the liberal drive-by media actually hates this woman even more than conservatives do, which will make her victories in W Virginia and Kentucky all the more infuriating.

I do believe the liberal drive-by media actually hates this woman even more than conservatives do" Funny you should say that, one of my assistants has been calling her a whole bunch of names..

skipthesong,

I am sure that a lot of pilots have crashed. But if SushiSake3's statistics are correct, it would be interesting to find out how many have crashed twice, been shot down once and also collided with a power cable in an accident reminiscent of planes colliding with the Italian ski cable. Then of those we could further break it down to see how many of those had Admirals for fathers, how many graduated so low in their class and how many of these become squadron COs, etc.

USNinJapan2 may hasten to point out that I know nothing about naval flight and he would be right. But I do know that McCain's greatest and truest claim to military stature is his service as a POW--during which he went through some rather excruciating torture. That service notwithstanding, the man who conservatives twice put into office (and who had no battlefield experience whatsoever) successfully savaged McCain's record by claiming that McCain was a traitor to his fellow POWs.

Now, I really think all this is irrelevant--but I mean all of it. I don't think anyone--except possibly McCain's parents--would have volunteered to undergo McCain's tortures in his place. Certainly not me. But I don't think his military record makes him any more qualified to be Commander-in-Chief than Obama or Clinton or anyone else. Being Commander-in-Chief is a position that first and foremost requires good judgment and McCain has not shown that his judgment is better than that of anyone else--not even that of the current Commander-in-Chief, whose judgment gives everyone else a rather low bar to hurdle.

skipthesong - thanks for your post.

"I am sure flying an airplane is not easy task and a lot of pilots crashed."

4 times?? That's not bad luck. That's incompetence.

"I don't mind your hate, but please come up with some stuff that is more realistically damaging?"

How about you try taking your election more seriously and actually coming up with some realistic assessments? The judgements of yourself and other Republicans on this board over recent years leave a lot to be desired - even non-Americans like me and many others on JT have gauged the mood of the American electorate more accurately and more often than Americans like youself.

I think Obama's message is one of hope and change, Sushi, not fear and division. That's more Karl Rove's than Barack Obama.

SezWho2 - "Being Commander-in-Chief is a position that first and foremost requires good judgment and McCain has not shown that his judgment is better than that of anyone else."

Nail. Head. Direct hit.

I rally think those voters who think "John McCain served his country THEREFORE we must put him on a pedestal and call him a "warrior," a "hero," etc. need to think again.

Sen. McCain has shown a level of incompetence and recklessness that had his dad not been an Admiral I'm sure would have got his butt kicked back to Panama where he was born.

John McCain's obsession with spending untold billions more in the seemingly endless war in Iraq, coupled with his near total lack of economic experience, strategies or ideas to combat the mounting economic crisis occurring at home are very, very worrying, and Republicans need to wake up before they risk electing McCain and watching their once proud nation slide even further down the toilet.

in an accident reminiscent of planes colliding with the Italian ski cable

Your tactics are reminiscent of Karl Rove's push polling of 2000. :)

Sen. McCain has shown a level of incompetence and recklessness that had his dad not been an Admiral I'm sure would have got his butt kicked back to Panama where he was born.

Do you think Obama would support such a message, Sushi? Personally, I think he'd reject it and distance himself from it.

"Obama ... said he will soon visit Michigan and Florida"

Heh ... Good luck with that. Given Barry's stance on Fla. and Mich. delegates being seated in Denver and oops: There goes those states.

Besides, since late February after voters began learning about his racist pastor, personal and financial ties to terrorist bombers, people residing in the flyover zone who cling to God and guns and are racists, Barry has had trouble locking up delegate-rich states that have >10 percent black populations.

RR

Sez and Sushi: Sez: I have never claimed McCain's military experience makes him any better. And, I have never said he is better than Obama. I am not voting for him. I was just pointing out what levels people go to when putting someone in office and I think it is childish as though one is rooting for a team in a ball game. I despise the idea that once in office people keep allegiance to a party and I despise how either party sells its ideas.

Sushi: you got me. "How about you try taking your election more seriously and actually coming up with some realistic assessments?" Sorry, even since I became of voting age, taking anything too serious has been a problem for me. There are very very very few politicians I like. Of the ones I do like, they are both Repu and Dem. Just as much as I dislike relgion, I dislike party politics and I have had it with JUST TWO parties who every twenty years or so seem to flip flop. And both side are very guilty of slinging mud and both sides are very very guilty of being hypocrites.

The judgements of yourself and other Republicans on this board over recent years leave a lot to be desired" Please tell me where I ever claimed to be either Repub or Dem.. I merely pointed out that the blame game you play, you are hitting a lot of foul balls as there were a lot more to this fiasco than who have gotten blamed. As for my judgements, thank you so much for allowing me the right to express them.

I, nor can you say what is a good pilot, Agreed however, his little experience in Vietnam can be taken two ways one of praise for enduring torture or the other not being smart enough to get out it! See, I am un-biased!

SuperLib,

What tactics? Try to be specific. If you think running into power cables in a foreign country is a benign thing, just say so.

RR: You correct that Obama may face a lot of problems in Mich. Since much of this thing has been played on race and thanks to Hillary's infamous statement saying that Obama doesn't know anything about white working men (as if she does -stupid). The Rev Write fiasco is going to hurt him in the polls as well as Mayor Kilpatrick, who is going down in flames but blames racism is going to hurt him as well...

I did a bit of a background check on Sen. McCain and couldn't help noticing that his father ("Jack") and grandfather Admiral John S. "Slew" McCain, Sr.) were United States Navy admirals.

Perhaps that would go a long way to explaining how John McCain could have destroyed 4 airplanes and still be promoted.

Sounds like Sen. McCain had a real big silver spoon in his mouth.

Unlike most Americans he claims to be fightng for......

Great thread.

McCain, nearly 40 years ago, crashed jet planes that were little more than fuselages with huge fuel tanks and bombs attached so this makes him unfit to be president.

It's not much of a leap to equally silly "reasoning" which says Obama can not talk of invading Pakistan or of sending ships to Lebanon because he never served, and is therefore a chicken hawk.

And his middle name is like one that lots of those terr'ists got!

Taking this absurd exercise further:Iran absolutely does want Obama elected because they know that since he is a chickenhawk - and a Democrat - he would never do what Republican presidents with war experience might.

Sez and Sushi: Sez: I was just pointing out what levels people go to when putting someone in office and I think it is childish as though one is rooting for a team in a ball game. I despise the idea that once in office people keep allegiance to a party and I despise how either party sells its ideas.

Well said.

I hope we ain't talking about the president who received his war experience after quitting the Air National Guard and then starting a war based on lies.

John McCain wants to follow the failed war stradigy that george bush started.

Boy, I'm glad that it looks like the democrats have got it this election. That doesn't mean that it's a done deal.

But if we democrats remained fired up and pissed off at george bush, it's a lock that a democrat will be sitting in the Whitehouse next year.

nucular: And his middle name is like one that lots of those terr'ists got!"

I'm going to defend Obama on this one. There have been a lot of wars, and many times leaders had the same names first, middle, last... I mean, if I ran, would you be saying that because my first is Italian I would be a Mussolini freak?, middle 1 is replica of a certain South American President and middle 2 and middle 3 names are both replica of certain Cuban leaders, so you think that I would support Cuba? I really hope you don't?

personal and financial ties to terrorist bombers

Wow, Ramen, is that true? If it is true, it's very reminiscent of Osama Bin Laden.

(a wink for you, Sez)

Taking this absurd exercise further:Iran absolutely does want Obama elected because they know that since he is a chickenhawk - and a Democrat - he would never do what Republican presidents with war experience might.

Incidentally, does this explain why GWB has done nothing despite predictions being made on this site for two years that a bombing campaign is imminent? I've decided it's not going to happen because even a brief spike in oil prices, which would be the immediate outcome, would rattle world financial markets (which are already under stress).

We're going to have to use diplomacy to get Iran to dismantle its nuclear program. That's better left in the hands of the person who advocates diplomacy (Obama) than the one who threatens the use of force but can't back it up (McCain will found himselef in the same straits as GWB).

But if we democrats remained fired up and pissed off at george bush, it's a lock that a democrat will be sitting in the Whitehouse next year.

Just like 2004? Democrats need to realize that they aren't campaigning against Bush. McCain is not Bush. McCain and Bush hate each other. Democrats need to deal with this reality if we want a Democrat to enter the White House. It won't be that easy. The "anyone but Bush" strategy failed in 2004...I'd rather not see Dean try that again.

The Democrats have no real plan for Iraq. Americans know that. We voted them into office and we've watched them fall flat on their faces with Iraq to a point where they're polling under Bush. If your goal is to campaign based on public opinion then you're putting the Democrats in an unfavorable position from the beginning.

The Democrats need to be strong and cohesive. They need to put forth plans and talk over and Republican fear mongering. They have a candidate in Obama who can do that, in my opinion. The question is whether or not they'll sell the party to the American public or simply sell themselves as a disorganized lesser of two evils.

SuperLib - "The Democrats have no real plan for Iraq."

It seems like after 5 long years of failure in Iraq, some people just still don't get it.

SuperLib, you seem to be strongly implying there is a plan for Iraq now.

If so, could you enlighten us, because I really don't think the majority of your countrypeople would agree with you.

Why? At the last poll, 71% of Americans think the country is on the wrong track in Iraq. That's nearly 3 in 4 who would disagree with you.

"We voted them into office and we've watched them fall flat on their faces with Iraq to a point where they're polling under Bush."

That would be because - as has been explained very clearly many times on JT already - Bush as been vetoing Democratic leglislation, increasingly against the wishes of his own party.

Bush is now polling lower than Nixon was the week before he resigned.

"The Democrats need to be strong and cohesive. They need to put forth plans and talk over Republican fear mongering. They have a candidate in Obama who can do that, in my opinion. The question is whether or not they'll sell the party to the American public or simply sell themselves as a disorganized lesser of two evils."

Excellent point.

Democrats are signing up and turning out to vote in record numbers this year. Interest in the election has, I believe, never been greater.

Regarding Sen. McCain - in the same way that Osama bin Laden owes a great deal of thanks to Bush for cementing the former terrorist's name on the map of international consciousness, a McCain win will also boost OBL's standing.

sushisake 3 : "That would be because - as has been explained very clearly many times on JT already - Bush as been vetoing Democratic leglislation, increasingly against the wishes of his own party."

"Bush is now polling lower than Nixon was the week before he resigned."

"...Osama bin Laden owes a great deal of thanks to Bush"

Bush. Bush. Bush.

Bush is not eligible for a third term.

Does this not get reported in Canada?

nucular - if you had taken the time to follow the conversation, you would see I was commenting about one of Superlib's assertions, which could only be answered by mentioning the president.

"Does this not get reported in Canada?"

I don't know. You'd better ask your friends.

.

Skip:

Yes, the "Rev." Wright issue will be a big problem for Barry in the general election. He tells the über-rich in San Francisco that white America "cling" to "their religion" (his words) but he has no problem clinging to his religion whose "pastor" calls for the death of "the White God." Heh ... Moderate and conservative voters in the U.S. flyover zone will be rallying around Barry's demostrated hypocracy in droves (rolleyes).

Then there is his close ties to Ayres and dohrn. Watch that skeleton as it falls out of Barry's closet.

Man, just wait until the Republican ad machine gets warmed up. They'll pick an unpatriotic narrative that works best and gives evidence to his unpatriotism with evidence of his associations (pastor, wife, Weatherman operatives, etc., etc., etc.). The GOP will keep The Empty Suit on the defensive up to Nov. 3, and they have a whole the ammo to choose from.

RR

Romeo - "The GOP will keep The Empty Suit on the defensive up to Nov. 3, and they have a whole the ammo to choose from."

To protect their incompetant, economic-airhead, Panama-born divorcee flyboy from getting flayed by Obama come November?

Sen. McCain needs to realize most Americans are interested in their next President dealing with issues and building schools, infrastructure and improving education and healthcare, etc. in America, not 8,000 miles away in Iraq.

"Yes, the "Rev." Wright issue will be a big problem for Barry in the general election."

It's only the truly gullible who continue to get upset by the Rev. Wright issue.

Will Obama's past relationship with the Rev. Wright be important with regards to fixing the tanking economy?

No.

With stitching up Social Security? Nope.

With helping to wean America off foreign oil? No.

How about improving wages and keeping a lid on inflation?? No and no.

So, why are some people still dragging the Rev. Wright up as an 'issue'?

Could it be that they simply have nothing else to use to attack Obama with?

If so, their case is truly sad.

OK, here's a little John McCain Scorecard for any Republicans who are still thinking of backing Sen. McCain.

1/ Besides wanting to continue George Bush's failed policies in Iraq, what other gifts does Sen. McCain want to hand to the terrorists and America's enemies?

I know, Sen. McCain also wants to get tough on Iran, and should he do so, the price of oil will rise, possibly significantly, which will be mana from Heaven for Iran, and Russia and the 9-11 perpetrators in the Saudi kingdom.

America's Enemies: 1 USA: 0

2/ Sen. McCain sabre-rattling against Iran will bolster the Iranian president's standing and help him to attract more disaffected young men to the Islamic cause.

America's Enemies: 2 USA: 0

3/ Sen. McCain wants America to stay in Iraq for an unknown period of time, while he tweaks his non-existant Plan For Victory.

Result: More of America's men and women die for nothing, more financial rupturing of America's finances.

America's Enemies: 3 USA and American families: 0

4/ Sen. McCain thinks it's better to spend $4-5 billion a week in Iraq, paying foreign contractors and corrupt locals, backing up a spineless Iraqi Government and getting even more good Americans killed.

America's Enemies: 4 USA and American families: 0

5/ Sen. McCain thinks "fighting terror" overseas is more important than staving off a capsizing economy at home.

America's Enemies: 5 USA and American families: 0

My question: Who is Sen. McCain representing??

At 5-0 to America's Enemies, it's pretty clear Sen. McCain sure won't be representing Americans.

SuperLib, you seem to be strongly implying there is a plan for Iraq now.

Imagine a guy sitting in front of a computer. The guy takes his hand and puts it in front of his face a few inches away, palm facing inward. Then said guy quickly pulls his hand back over the curve of his head and makes a loud jet engine sound. If you can imagine that, then you can imagine what I'd be doing if I were sitting in front of you right this second.

Put the imaginary George Bush in your head to bed for the night. It's starting to creep me out again.

Superlib, so you'd be sitting there hitting yourself in the head?

Is that how you Republican types deal with the difficult concept of an inevitable Obama Presidency next January?

Man, I'd PAY to see you do that on YouTube. :-)

RomeoRamenII_- The Senator's name is Barack! not Barry, that does not even equates to a shortening of the name in accepted terms. It is typical, can't deal with anything different so you have put your own ridiculous spin on it.

sushisake3 : "At 5-0 to America's Enemies, it's pretty clear Sen. McCain sure won't be representing Americans."

Yes, but, exactly who are America's enemies?

In the more than twenty debates they have been in to date neither Obama or Clinton have used the words Islam and terror while on the same stage, let alone in the same sentence.

sushisake3 : "Sen. McCain needs to realize most Americans are interested in their next President dealing with issues and building schools, infrastructure and improving education and healthcare, etc. in America, not 8,000 miles away in Iraq."

The junior senator from Illinois, a product of the most notorious political machine in the nation, the pol with the most liberal voting record in the Senate, is to be our next president, and it is destiny at work?

Everton2: were you just as upset when Bush was called a Chimp, Devil? I am sure you got a few not so friendly nick names for others... and calling him Barry isn't nearly as bad as calling him Chimp, which Bush is commonly referred to here at JT..

nucular: "In the more than twenty debates they have been in to date neither Obama or Clinton have used the words Islam and terror while on the same stage, let alone in the same sentence." That is a very good point. But still, we are now limited to either Obama or McCain. With the exception to the war, both are really running on the same platforms. Just last night on Nightline, there was talk how Obama can best get to the conservatives, which I would have thought he would have just by passed..

See, they really are one of the other.. not much different in this world of American politics.

nucular - "In the more than twenty debates they have been in to date neither Obama or Clinton have used the words Islam and terror while on the same stage, let alone in the same sentence."

It's probably because both Obama or Clinton are intelligent enough to realize they are campaigning to be the President of the USA, not of Iraq.

They are also intelligent enough to realize that the current President has been fueling terror and terrorism while neglecting to competently deal with issues facing the people who voted him in.

"The junior senator from Illinois, a product of the most notorious political machine in the nation."

You're clearly getting mixed up here. Obama never worked under Karl Rove.

Skip: "I'm going to defend Obama on this one. There have been a lot of wars, and many times leaders had the same names first, middle, last... I mean, if I ran, would you be saying that because my first is Italian I would be a Mussolini freak?, middle 1 is replica of a certain South American President and middle 2 and middle 3 names are both replica of certain Cuban leaders, so you think that I would support Cuba? I really hope you don't?"

Damn good of you. Did you know the most common name in the world for boys is 'Muhammed'? It's a fact. A name is simply a name, but the current US government has caused so much trouble simply based on names that they are ludicrous, and if McCain gets in there, people like you and yours, as well as the Muhammeds of the world will always be on the 'danger' list at airports and everywhere else because the people in charge are truly ignorant of the way the world works, and simply see words on a piece of paper as a means to discriminate. Names are names.... what you do with them is what matters (so long as they are not what makes you do what you do). You better watch out for pasqi/superlib/redacted/etc., though.... he LOVES to try and point out where you are from as a means of trying to undermine what you say.

As for senator McCain, he's a joke, literally. I thought Americans would be sick by now of Presidents who lie all the time and never say what they mean.

McCain: About the 100 year presence in Iraq, what I meant was... McCain: About pork-barrel spending... what I mean was...

the list goes on and on, and the people that suck it up does too.

'The junior senator from Illinois, a product of the most notorious political machine in the nation.' sushisake 3 :"You're clearly getting mixed up here. Obama never worked under Karl Rove."

If you don't know of the Chicago political machine you don't know or understand Obama.

"The Senator's name is Barack! not Barry, ... blah, blah, blah ... you have put your own ridiculous spin on it."

Everton2, it's obvious you really don't know that much about the candidate you support, do ya? Barry had no problem being called that back in the day:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/1/18/181128/082

RR

<strong>Moderator: All readers, in the interest of keeping the discussion at a mature level, please do not refer to Mr Obama as barry.</strong>

However, I said before, I will say it again, I do believe their is a force in Islam that does want world domination and nucular does have a point about neither Obama nor Hillary bringing that out, but you can damn sure bet their would hit Christians (and rightfully so) hard.. That is an area I don't like.

My my my, Sushi. Obama would reject your brand of campaigning. McCain thanks you. And Karl Rove wants your email.

SuperLib,

You, know, I agree with skipthesong there too--so much so that I took him to be in agreement with me in the quote you thought was well-said. I thought he was saying what I said: that the issue of McCain's military experience or Obama's and Hillary's lack of same was not relevant to selection of a president. It is a partisan dividing point and it is a false one.

What matters is that we elect a president with good judgment. It doesn't matter what party he is from. What matters is whether he is able to be a president for all the people and not a president for the Democrats or Republicans. But maybe you missed that implication because you thought my tactics implied something else.

Ah yes, Obama the working man's friend. Gonna help redistribute all that wealth form the wealthy ($70,000 a year and up) to the needy (i.e. welfare mothers who will be supporting him in droves) Sorry, I'll be voting for McCain as I don't think the government needs anymore from my pocket.

USAexpat - "Sorry, I'll be voting for McCain as I don't think the government needs anymore from my pocket."

Heh, the government's going to get you through the taxes they collect for the failed war you support.

Sushi, not a fan of the war and certainly not a supporter. We should never have done it but GWB and his minions actually believed their own rhetoric about spreading democracy. The point is we're there now and a pullout will make us weaker. Whoever gets the presidency is going to have to come up with a way to quell the violence if they plan to withdraw with any shred of dignity. On this too I don't think Obama is up to the task.

SezWho2 ... What matters is that we elect a president with good judgment. It doesn't matter what party he is from. What matters is whether he is able to be a president for all the people and not a president for the Democrats or Republicans. But maybe you missed that implication because you thought my tactics implied something else.

Political parties represent voting blocks. Democrats since the turn of the 20th century have represented the liberal/socialist voting block. Republicans at least until the murder of Kennedy by Johnson/Hoover have represented the conservative/unregulated business voting block. Following the government sanctioned murder of Kennedy, even though Reagan spoke the old Party rhetoric, the Republican Party changed the course of its Conservatism to Big Government back by monopoly corporations who slowly transform American workers into fuedal serfs. 5 Major corporations control the "free press" in the United States!

as per the Democrats 2009 budget; wealthy is described as making 31,850 per individual, 63,700 per couple. Also take in consideration the high inflation with it's high prices = many of the wealthy are not doing so well wealthy.

SushiSake3:

Basically, McCain was a pretty bad pilot whose incompetence led to the destruction of a handful of planes.

SezWho2:

But if SushiSake3's statistics are correct, it would be interesting to find out how many have crashed twice, been shot down once and also collided with a power cable in an accident reminiscent of planes colliding with the Italian ski cable.

SushiSake3:

4 times?? That's not bad luck. That's incompetence.

A good friend of mine flew F4 Phantoms during Vietnam. He had to bail out on four different occasions. Not for being shot down or bad flying, but because of mechanical failures with the airplanes.

I'll have to say though, that the way SS3 presents McCain's flying record, he makes G.W.Bush look like one helluva pilot.

Oh wait, Bush actually was an accomplished pilot.

I've never flown anything that didn't have a prop on it, so I don't know how difficult those Vietnam-era fighter jets were to handle. But from what I have heard from those who know, the helicopter pilots of that war had much better equipment to work with.

And now, back to present day...

Finally, somebody from the DNC campaign gets to focus on the RNC nominee. I think it was adaydream who has been claiming (without any proof) that this prolonged DNC conflict has been driving the RNC nuts, because the Republicans can't focus their "dirty tricks" on any particular DNC candidate. Now Obama is proving the opposite to be true. The DNC has't been able to start trashing the RNC nominee because the DNC candidates have been too busy working each other over.

Since the only differences between the two DNC candidates is skin deep, all the RNC has had to do is attack the standard policies of a modern American Marxist, and they hit the bullseye. The DNC, on the other hand, can't go after the Goldwater/Buckley/Reagan brand of conservatism, since McCain is almost as liberal/leftist on many policies and issues as their own candidates.

Moderator: All readers, in the interest of keeping the discussion at a mature level, please do not refer to Mr Obama as barry.

Yes, because as we all know, only his friends are allowed to do that. And while we're at it, stop referring to current Clinton candidate as "Hillary". There's no sense in trying to tell them apart. ;)

Hillary Rodham Clinton is struggling?

Miss this? -

A new ABC News/Washington Post poll finds:

"Pushing back against political punditry, more than six in 10 Democrats say there's no rush for Hillary Clinton to leave the presidential race even as Barack Obama consolidates his support for the nomination and scores solidly in general-election tests.

"Despite Obama's advantage in delegates and popular vote, 64 percent of Democrats in the latest ABC News/Washington Post poll say Clinton should remain in the race. Even among Obama's supporters, 42 percent say so.

http://abcnews.go.com/PollingUnit/Vote2008/story?id=4837828

how the losers and loonies of the rightwing are digging hard to do anything to stop the inevitable in their feeble minds. Get use to it, President Obama. And he is not the fish and cut bait failure that your repub bag of dwarfs and knuckledraggers has produced. No one however can top bush in the failure department. He has buried the repub party now along with his war dead in Iraq and the american economy. But the oil companies are doing well and that, after all, is what the repub party really cares about. That and gay marraige, unless they are gay themselves then its ok if they have gay sex but no one else can. How typical.

RR and the rest of the wingnut dregs can stop looking for WMD now in Iraq. Look to your own party as that is what bush is now to the dying repub party. Even Rove now has sold out the repubs now to go mainstream, that is rightwing, media.

Could be. They've only been flying 30 years or so, plenty of chances for refinement.

I personally like Barack Obama, but I don't trust a few people that he holds close to him, his wife scares me, and his reverend is turning this thing into another Civil Rights movement. John McCain has proved himself a very good senator, even if he has made a few mistakes he has proven that he is able to work with the other party. And that is what's best for America, to have a president who isn't so wrapped up in his party that he forgets about everybody else.