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Obama urges patience as health care law kicks in

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As people realize that the Republicans lied about what the health care bill was and is, now that it is in effect, less and less people will be against it. Over time many small businesses will benefit by offering health insurance like larger size companies, thus attracting a higher caliber of employees and will also grow to appreciate it. I don't however see American's falling in love with the changes. The changes are far too subtle and are put into effect in in such a graduated manner to bring some great level of excitement. I predict that over time Americans will warm up nicely to the new set of laws. The conservatives have one and only one thing they can continually bitch about. That is the requirement to carry health insurance. Not only will that bitching get old but it will only be a small percentage of the populace that minds abiding by the law. The other provisions of the law consists of a lengthy list of almost never ending benefits. It is unfortunate that some of the greatest benefits of all do not take place immediately.

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Patience is rarely a bad idea.

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“If they want to have a fight, I welcome that fight. Because I don’t believe the American people are going to put the insurance industry back in the driver’s seat,”

Bwahaha, seriously? The insurance industry isn't just driving the car, they manufactured it, sold it, plotted the course, and convinced everybody that it was in their best interests. Nobody benefits more from this bill except perhaps the pharmaceutical industry.

If they really wanted to lower cost how about you let Medicare bargain with drug companies like the VA or let people buy over state lines? Are the mediocre fines really enough to prevent a healthcare provider from refusing to take a person with a preexisting condition, I think not. Lets say you've got a guy who needs dialysis, costs about 30,000 a year in addition to the drugs he needs and other treatments which, lets say, totals up to $50,000. If the company refuses to cover him they pay about $36,500 in fines that year, so they end up saving money by taking the fines especially if the guy dies before the year is up (assuming the $100 a day thing is accurate, I’ve been hearing that number a lot but haven’t come across it yet).

There are some infractions that merit a $50,000 dollar fine with up to triple damages in certain conditions but those are easily mitigated or avoided. Plus there is a lot of shaky language relating to the fines that gives insurance companies a solid legal platform to dance around on, and dance they shall.

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Republicans are dreaming if they think they can claw back benefits and extended coverage by repealing this bill. But it'll be funny watching them try. :-)

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The conservatives have one and only one thing they can continually bitch about. That is the requirement to carry health insurance. Not only will that bitching get old but it will only be a small percentage of the populace that minds abiding by the law.

It is one that the majority of Americans agree with, one that will not get old, and it is one in which a lot of them will disregard that law as the fine is less than the actual monthly payments of buying health insurance.

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As people realize that the Republicans lied about what the health care bill...

ZZZZzzzzz..... same old tired lies from Democrats. The Democrats didn't even read it. The conservative critics of the bill are correct.

Obama wants patience, because the increased debt hasn't even started yet.

This new law is a scam.

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'We, the Republican Party, want to repeal this Democratic bill and strip you of your extra insurance coverage, take your kids back off your policies, and make it easy again for insurance companies to refuse you treatment for pre-existing conditions. In other words, we want to take you back to how things were under the good ole days under GOP rule.' Um...how's that for a GOP campaign pledge for November?

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'We, the Republican Party, want to repeal this Democratic bill and strip you of your extra insurance coverage, take your kids back off your policies, and make it easy again for insurance companies to refuse you treatment for pre-existing conditions.

You have NO CLUE what you're talking about. Conservatives fully support some of the items in the law, but they are a small fraction of this multi-trillion dollar scam.

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Doubt the Republicans will be able to repeal ObamaCare, but forcing Americans to buy it or face fines/jail time for not doing so and a "head tax", which is what Obama signed into law, will be struck down by the SC as being unconstitutional.

Hopefully, the provision that provides government subsidized viagra to sex offenders will also be eliminated from ObamaCare by the SC, too.

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The bill won't work until they take health and medical insurance out of the hands of insurance companies and put it in the hands of the government. Only then will a socialized health program have a fighting chance to work...

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You have NO CLUE what you're talking about. Conservatives fully support some of the items in the law, but they are a small fraction of this multi-trillion dollar scam.

Don't worry about Sushi, hes pulling out the standard Dem lies, using a minor issue, and making it out to be the primary motivating factor. That Republicans, and most Americans oppose this bill, not because it "covers" 30 million American people, not because we want these people to die. (Thats the Dem lies.) But rather because we don't believe in the nanny state, and we don't believe that people should be taxed for the privilege of living. The Dems do. That and Viagra for Sex offenders, they're definitely in favor of that!

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Molenir, your viagra for sex offenders was nothing more than a politically-motivated time waster to give the GOP another weak talking point in November.

I hear you say you don't believe in a nanny state. OK. But what I don't hear you say is that the previous system was working well. It wasn't. Premiums were just starting to skyrocket. Unless you can put forward a case that the status quo was better than the new system, your case crumbles to dust and just did.

Nice try. :-)

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Molenir, I hear you and other Americans decry the nanny state and govt. interference. If you do that, you've also got to credibly argue that Americans have got things well under control in areas where the govt. may assert control.

In the areas of healthcare, obesity, personal savings, home loans/ownership, and more, Americans have lost control. Your decrying of the nanny begs you to state an alternative, or to show that the status quo was better, which are 2 things you don't appear to be able to do.

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That and Viagra for Sex offenders, they're definitely in favor of that!

If I've said it once, I've said it a million times, I am absolutely, unequivocally against rush limbaugh and rr receiving federally subsidized viagara.

Can you say you are against leaving 20 million of your fellow countrymen without the medical help they may need? Do you not want your countrymen in need to get the help they require? Do you not want their children to have every opportunity to grow into the Americans that solve our dependence on foreign oil? Can't you see it is an investment in the future? There really IS something in it for you! Honest to God. I'm not making this stuff up. Invest in YOUR future by paying for every child in America's health care. Doesn't that make more sense than pre-slicing bread for goodness sakes?

Taka

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Sushi,

Indeed, there's too much government control, except when they are breaking the law (and yep, they did) by spying on Americans without warrants.

It totally defies reason. Fear will do that to you, I guess.

Taka

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Taka, you're right, but the left and right here are arguing based on fundamental differences of opinion, eg: whether the US needs a nanny state. Oh, and whether the most material-rich nation on earth should provide its citizens with fairer access to bettter basic healthcare, an idea that most on the right and some in the middle vehemently oppose.

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Americans don't appreciate being pushed & prodded by their government. We don't much give a damn who doesn't approve of it, either. It's called "The Constitution". I don't like to see it being dismantled by this current crop of carnival barkers.

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The GOP had 8 long years to manage the economy. At the end of it, they drove not only their own economy but also the global economy off the cliff.

Now, the same party and its supporters are telling us they have better ideas to manage healthcare? It's like listening to an abusive Catholic priest lecturing on childcare only in this case, thousands more lives may continue to be needlessly lost if the GOP is allowed to have their way. All for the sake of the almighty dollar....

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It's simply amazing to see some Americans STILL claiming they don't like or need govt. control. Without it, there would be no highway system, Medicare/aid, military, or Internet, food, building, financial or environmental regulations...you name it. Opponents of this bill who are also against govt. control are nothing less than class A hypocrites and it's pitiful watching their arguments flail.

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RomeoRamenII at 11:01 AM JST - 2nd April

Doubt the Republicans will be able to repeal ObamaCare, but forcing Americans to buy it or face fines/jail time for not doing so and a "head tax", which is what Obama signed into law, will be struck down by the SC as being unconstitutional.

Dreams of judicial activism

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SushiSake3: And the people who rail against big government are usually from states(hint:the south) that benefit disproportionately from government spending.

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manfromamerica at 10:38 AM JST - 2nd April

The Democrats didn't even read it.

BEGINS TO CLOSE THE MEDICARE PART D DONUT HOLE - Reduces the donut hole by $500 and institutes a 50% discount on brand-name drugs, effective January 1. 2010.

IMMEDIATE HELP FOR THE UNINSURED UNTIL EXCHANGE IS AVAILABLE (INTERIM HIGH-RISK POLL) - Creates a temporary insurance program until the Exchange is available for individuals who have been uninsured for several months or have been denied a policy because of pre-existing conditions.

BANS LIFETIME LIMITS ON COVERAGE - Prohibits health insurance companies from placing lifetime caps on coverage.

ENDS RESCISSIONS - Prohibits insurers from nullifying or rescinding a patient's policy when they file a claim for benefits, except in the case of fraud.

EXTENDS COVERAGE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE UP TO 27TH BIRTHDAY THROUGH PARENT'S INSURANCE - Requires health plans to allow young people through age 26 to remain n their parents' insurance policy, at the parents' choice.

ELIMINATES COST-SHARING FOR PREVENTATIVE SERVICES IN MEDICARE - Eliminates co-payments for preventative services and exempts preventative services from deductibles from the Medicare program.

IMPROVES HELP FOR LOW-INCOME MEDICARE BENEFICIARIES - Improves the low-income protection programs in Medicare to assure more individuals are able to access this vital help.

PROVIDES NEW CONSUMER PROTECTIONS IN MEDICARE ADVANTAGE - Prohibits Medicare Advantage plans from charging enrollees higher cost-sharing for services in their private plan than what is charged in traditional Medicare.

IMMEDIATE SUNSHINE ON PRICE GOUGING - Discourages excessive price increases by insurance companies through review and disclosure of insurance rate increases.

CONTINUITY FOR DISPLACED WORKERS - Allows Americans to keep their COBRA coverage until the Exchange is in place and they can access affordable coverage.

CREATES NEW, VOLUNTARY, PUBLIC LONG-TERM CARE INSURANCE PROGRAM - Creates a long-term care insurance program to be financed by voluntary payroll deductions to provide benefits to adults who become functionally disabled.

HELP FOR EARLY RETIREES - Creates a $10 billion fund to finance a temporary reinsurance program to help offset the costs of expensive health claims for employers that provide health benefits for retirees age 55-64.

COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS - Increases funding for Community Health Centers to allow for a doubling of the number of patients seen by the centers over the next 5 years.

INCREASING NUMBER OF PRIMARY CARE DOCTORS - Provides new investment in training programs to increase the number of primary doctors, nurses, and public health professionals.

Then let's not for get you can't be denied coverage and you can't be dropped.

Let me repeat it bans lifetime limits on coverage. This is not being discussed much but is very important.

And Team Temper Tantrum sang Viagra for sex offenders and socialism.

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glad I don't live in America anymore.

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Yeah you left out that the health care will tax a lot of American companies out of business, will pretty much tax everyone that has a job and every company to pay for the people who dont work yet expect to have a middle class lifestyle.

Its nice the American government, liberals mainly, made the health insurance industry the monster it is and now they are going to crush them so that the government can decide who lives and dies.

Most the government's resources right now are going to counties and states that voted obama wont it be lovely when they can arrange all the nations healthcare according to who voted for the clowns as well.

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You can't be denied "insurance" for pre-existing conditions now? Can we also buy fire insurance for houses that have already burnt down? Wait a minute, that's not insurance, that's charity.

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The next 24 hours are "armageddon" because the health care bill proposed by Democrats will "ruin our country," House Minority Leader John Boehner said Saturday, a day before a crucial vote on the bill in the House.

That's a GOP member earning his paycheck.

Fear. Fear. Fear.

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paulinusa:

hint:the south

Could you be more specific?

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The GOP had 8 long years to manage the economy... Now, the same party and its supporters

It's interesting. Sushisake and the others seem to think that if you oppose this legislation that you must be Republican.

Wake up guys, everyone is not a Democrat or Republican. It goes to show you who is playing the same old politics (the Left).

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And you really believe those lovely, caring insurance companies have your best interests at heart? Riiight. Suckers! They don't give a rats about ya.

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And you really believe those lovely, caring insurance companies have your best interests at heart?

They are a business, not a charity. They care about providing the best support to their customers within the parameters of their insurance plans.

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I'm so glad that now when an American kid falls off his new free pony promised to him by Obama and the Democrats that he will also be covered for any injuries he may aquire.

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It's interesting. Sushisake and the others seem to think that if you oppose this legislation that you must be Republican.

What amuses me about this, is how they seem to want to think Republicans are all the same. Bush was a Republican and for 8 years President, therefore anything that happened during his tenure is his fault. Trying to tar the party because the progressives in the party, the ones conservatives get blamed for trying to drive out, are all to happy to go along with Dems in growing the government. NCLB, Prescription Drug benefit etc. Sorry, but while there are a lot of conservatives in the party, there are unfortunately a lot of progressives in it too. People more in line with liberal philosophy then conservative. Saying Republicans were in control is vastly oversimplifying. Its like saying Dems opposed civil rights. Its true, but doesn't tell the story.

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The real question that no Democrat or Liberal on this board can really address with any kind of rational argument is this.

If Obamacare is so wonderful why is he still having to try to sell it to America after it already has passed?

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Molenir -

that's because the Democrats plan is, and always has been, to attack and try to marginalize anyone who disagrees. If you are against this trillion dollar legislative fiasco, you are (1) racist, (2) a right-wing militant (3) hate babies, and (4) stupid. The Democrat propaganda squad is out in full force.

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manfromamerica - what a ridiculous post.

Sailwind - "this.

If Obamacare is so wonderful why is he still having to try to sell it to America after it already has passed?"

Good question. I put it partly down to right wing talk show hosts who have been filling the airwaves with vitriol.

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manfromamerica - what a ridiculous post.

LOL! Actually, my post is entirely accurate.

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manfromamerica - your post was hilarious, especially the '2) a right-wing militant' bit.

Thanks. :-)

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Sushisake3 - glad I can help spell it out for you. :-)

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manfromamerica, it would be funnier if it were remotely accurate. :-)

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Why Obama has such a hard time convincing people in the US that a health care reform, which is barely decreasing the gap to other developed nations in terms of costs and coverage, is indispensable?

In favourable terms:

americans are generally very optimistic and as long as they don't find themself in non self-imposed health disaster (losing your job and getting sick, having pre-existing conditions, being poor and ill-healthed, etc.), they think everything will be fine.

In less favourable terms:

a big number of americans lack a certain sense of empathy for people in unfortunate circumstances

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bamboo:

a big number of americans lack a certain sense of empathy for people in unfortunate circumstances

Really?!

Let's see how others held up to this in 2007: and, by the way, you will read in this article: "What people find especially interesting about this, and it's true year after year, that such a high percentage comes from individual donors"

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-06-25-charitable_N.htm

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goodDonkey:"Team Temper Tantrum"

BOOM! Too funny, a great name for the few remaining violent tea baggers who are trying (and FAILing) to make folks at this websight believe free healthj care for ALL can be repealed. You really have a good way with words.You remind me of Jenine Garafalo (sp?) who is a personal hero of mine.

Well, anyways my liberal friends, Obama is more popular than ever and scott brown and his evil pickup have been defeated.The new laws have kicked in Team Temper Tantrum cant do anything about it.

Know this, American progressives-you are'nt alone in the fight.Sushisake3,zurcronium aand many of us north of your borders are pulling for you.

Moderator: Readers, please do not use meaningless terms like "Team Temper Tantrum."

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Well, another thing I have been meaning post here since the historic day that Barack Obama brought free health care to America is an absolutley fabulous quote from Howard Dean, who SHOULD have been the candidate in 2004,instead of Kerry who was brought down by the corporate controlled media.Here is Howard Dean (who IS a doctor,I might add)speaking about the new health care program in America: “When [wealth distribution] gets out of whack as it did in the ’20s and it has now, you need to do some redistribution. This is a form of redistribution. ”

So, how about my friends. How about a 'bingo!' for that one?

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****Gombei:

since the historic day that Barack Obama brought FREE health care to America

It is going to be extremely interesting to see what the price tag is for "free"

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Well, another thing I have been meaning post here since the historic day that Barack Obama brought free health care to America

Where did you see that in the bill? I see a slight expansion in Medicare and fines if you don't buy your own coverage.

Death panels ring any bells?

I personally never attested to the existence of the death panels, however all government programs still have their old limitations. You still confer with a panel that advises on your best course of action when faced with a life threatening affliction (which may or may not advise against an expensive but potentially life saving procedure) and Medicare still doesn't cover alternative medicine or experimental treatments. My insurance does. Medicare also lacks the power to bargain with drug companies, its still illegal to import drugs from Canada, and you still can't buy insurance over state lines.

Most of this bill is just new spin on old limitations anyway. For example, an insurance company can't deny you coverage for a preexisting condition...but they can deny you coverage because of your poor credit score due to the debts you've piled up over the course of mitigating said condition or they could hold you up in paperwork for months.

If anybody cares to do some digging (I'm too busy most of the time and to lazy the rest) I recall a similar bill in the late 90's that was almost exactly like this one, but it got struck down by democrats because they said it didn't do enough. If you read the thing out of context of who supported it and who opposed it this time around the current legislation looks a lot like something a republican or very conservative democrat would write, it changes very little, what changes there are are subtle little things, and it benefits big business.

Really the only reason the republicans are so against it is because they weren’t able to pass it first. Behind all the rhetoric you have a group of democrats trying to appear centrist and the republican’s trying to paint them as crazed liberals. If this were a liberal bill it would include a public option, bigger subsidies for lower income workers, huge taxes on wealthier individuals, would be effective immediately, and would cripple big industry. The current legislation does none of these, I’m not happy about it but then again I’m rarely happy about anything government does outside of deregulation.

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Taka, you mean The Sarah Palin Death Panels? I thought The Sarah Palin Death Panels had been soundly rejected. Anyway, it goes to show the GOP is never short of bad ideas.

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"a public still wary of his massive health care overhaul"

Why is the public wary of it? Heck, it's obvious the Democrats know what's best for everyone.

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The Obama health plan was penned by the big insurance companies. It is all a big scam.

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Sailwind - "this.

If Obamacare is so wonderful why is he still having to try to sell it to America after it already has passed?"

Good question. I put it partly down to right wing talk show hosts who have been filling the airwaves with vitriol.

Pretty Lame answer Sushi, if that was true that right wing talk show hosts held such sway over the American electorate that Obama would have never got elected in the first place.

I give you credit though you tried to answer my question. I see no other here Liberal's can't answer it at all.

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Sail, Taka also answered your question.

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Americans don't appreciate being pushed & prodded by their government. We don't much give a damn who doesn't approve of it, either. It's called "The Constitution". I don't like to see it being dismantled by this current crop of carnival barkers.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Obama a constitutional scholar?

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The Reps screwed up on this big time.

They should have gone to the bargaining table and tried to get a few things in the bill (malpractice).

But they chose to hold a firm party line of "no" in hopes it would not pass.

The Reps gambled big, and they lost big.

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@manfromamerica, are you in alternate-realities? That is the weirdest interpretation of insurance companies I have ever read, good comedy. Watch SICKO. Wake up!

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Obama mocked the ... pollsters who say he isn’t getting a boost from his yearlong campaign to pass the sweeping reform

Mocking and ridiculing the 55% of Americans with legitimate concerns about ObamaCare doesn't help him much.

Heh, no wonder vulnerable democrats who voted for it don’t want to talk about how wonderful ObamaCare is with their constituents during the recess.

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hworta269 at 01:45 PM JST - 2nd April

Yeah you left out that the health care will tax a lot of American companies out of business,

Because it isn't true.

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medievaltimes at 11:35 PM JST - 2nd April

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Obama a constitutional scholar?

Precisely why he's right and you are wrong.

People are not telling the truth when they say Obama is a socialist. People are not telling the truth when they say Democrats voted to allow sex offenders to receive free Viagra.

There never was a vote to allow sex offenders to receive free Viagra.

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sailwind at 04:32 PM JST - 2nd April

The real question that no Democrat or Liberal on this board can really address with any kind of rational argument is this.

/

If Obamacare is so wonderful why is he still having to try to sell it to America after it already has passed?

sailwind always gets his questions answered and then claims no one answered his question. He is greatly confused with people answering his question and saying things he likes to hear. People answer his questions but he just doesn't like the answers so he claims they did not answer.

The conservatives have so poisoned the well that America is not aware of what the Health Care Reform law is actually about. I continue to list its attributes but nobody from the right will even speak about the benefits that I have listed.

People will often overlook a benefit that they are entitled too if they are unaware of it. Obama is doing his best to make sure all Americans understand the benefits created by the new HCR law.

Furthermore if someone has lied about the law so often and so well that many Americans believe the lies then it is prudent that the President make clear what the actual law is. sailwind might ask himself why the Republicans continue to spread misinformation now that the HCR bill is now law. The answer is clear to sailwind's original question. We will not stand idly by and allow Americans to be told the law is something that it is not and we will try to make up for the damage that the Republicans were unfortunately successful in inflicting on the truth about what the HCR law is and is not.

Most Americans do not know the following; but they should:

BANS LIFETIME LIMITS ON COVERAGE - Prohibits health insurance companies from placing lifetime caps on coverage.
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Are Americans aware of the new law on preventative health care?

ELIMINATES COST-SHARING FOR PREVENTATIVE SERVICES - Eliminates co-payments for preventative services and exempts preventative services from deductibles from the Medicare program.
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Shortages are expected in primary care physicians and related health care workers. The new law provides new investment in programs to increase the number of primary doctors, nurses, and public health professionals.

also

ENDS RESCISSIONS - Prohibits insurers from nullifying or rescinding a patient's policy when they file a claim for benefits, except in the case of fraud.
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Precisely why he's right and you are wrong.

What exactly am I wrong about? I just asked if Obama was a constitutional scholar.

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medievaltimes at 06:47 AM JST - 3rd April

"Precisely why he's right and you are wrong."

What exactly am I wrong about? I just asked if Obama was a constitutional scholar.

I mistook you for the one who earlier said HCR would be struck down by the Supreme Court. Sorry about that. I believe RomeoRamen is also manfromamerica and I wasn't paying attention so I thought I was addressing manfromamerica. RomeoRamen said "which is what Obama signed into law, will be struck down by the SC as being unconstitutional."

I know I am giving a somewhat convoluted response but I was trying to be more specific than "I had you confused with someone else."

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Come on goodDonkey, go ahead, keep preaching about how Obama isn't a socialist, despite passing the biggest socialist piece of legislation in history. Vastly expanding the breadth and scope of government and their control over our lives. But thats definitely not socialist. Based on your comments, I don't think you even have a clue what socialism is.

What you fail to understand is that Americans don't want the nanny state. They don't want government telling them what they can and can't do. Most Americans don't want government in their lives. You and a minority of Dems do. You want to have to get the governments permission to wipe your butt, and then have some faceless bureaucrat wipe it for you. More government equals less freedom. Most people are aware of this, and its why they don't like it, the supposed benefits aside.

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Everything Molenir says is nothing new. He cannot address all the great things I have brought up in the new law.

Yes, Molenir I know exactly what socialism is. I went to grad school and I studied Economics. You are just plain wrong about the facts as usual. Who knows where you get your information from but I don't personally care.

It is no coincidence that you use terms just like Rush Limbaugh: nanny state, etc. We hear you doing it all the time and using the same old tired arguments.

Socialized Medicine would be if the doctors worked for the government; they don't. Socialized Medicine is not even socialism but that would take someone willing to accept the definitions that brilliant minds of the past have developed over the years. McCain brings up this bullshit about Obama still being in campaign mode. The daft Palin brought out the Socialism strategy and you guys bought into it hook, line and sinker. It just shows ignorance every time it is improperly used. I am just so glad that Americans are sick and tired of hearing it now. So I welcome all of you on the "Team" to keep misusing the terms. Stay in that campaign mode and it will all work out for you "someday." Tell all your friends that the the "Dems" voted to give Viagra to the sex offenders. In the meantime I will be spreading the great news of the HCR law.

It was so important to ban lifetime limits on insurance policies; thank goodness the Democrats have now turned that into law.

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Allowing young people through age 26 to remain n their parents' insurance policy, at the parents' choice is not socialism.

Preventing Insurance companies from booting the sickest people off after they have been paying for years is not socialism.

Requiring Insurance companies to accept people with preexisting conditions is not socialism.

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@Molenir: nThe biggest piece of socialist legislation in history? One, it is clear you know not what socialism means, two, have limited grasp of legislation passed in the past; three have been made into the consumer unit the corporations want and four, do not see that you have socialist apparatus all over America. Public libraries, the police, the fire dept,educational infrastructure, dams, roads, laws to protect your food quality, water supplies... you're shouting and not aware of all that 'socialism' that surrounds you.

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GoodDonkey what will you do when obamacare does tax companies out of business then you will just justify it by saying they were evil companies.

What I dont understand is why so many of you are so happy about this crap and most of you if you have half a brain cell knows this will happen. Also this bill will tax the shit out of most Americans also.

At the end of the day it will wind up killing more Americans then most wars honestly. You guys will get your free 10 month wait to get your broken bones xrayed.

And to boot you know what this wont affect me at all, I only raise objections because I actually care about Americans.

This bill will make 100 percent of Americans rely on the government.

If this thing is soooooo great then why wont a single congressman or the great leader Obama go on it? Why are they exempt.

Why are the people who wrote this bill exempt from having to go on it as well?

And to boot government health care like medicare deny coverage to more people then every single private insurance company combined.

When was the last time some woman in America had to have her baby in the hallway? well it happens all the time in the beloved socialist nations like the UK, the EU and canada.

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Obama has said over and over again he doesnt like the constitution.

Sources/quotes please.

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Obama is NOT a constitutional scholar.

Didn't he teach constitutional law in Chicago?

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Allowing young people through age 26 to remain n their parents' insurance policy, at the parents' choice is not socialism.

If the child is a student most plans will allow him/her to stay on anyway. Plus, what kind of lame kid (mentaly disable excluded of course) stays with his parents until he's 26 anyway? Boot out the brat and let him stand or fall on his own.

I'll get this out of the way not and agree that none of the following regulations are inherently socialist programs, it would only be so if there was an actual healthcare take over which there is not. Last time I checked there are no actual socialist programs even on the table save for perhaps a public option that would, without exception, get shot down by both the house and senate. The risk would be to great and the backlash would be ugly as sin.

Preventing Insurance companies from booting the sickest people off after they have been paying for years is not socialism.

The legislation does not prevent this from happening, it merely punishes firms that do, and more often than not the fine is disproportionately small compared to the crime. But then such is the way of things when you have the insurance industry essentially writing the thing.

Requiring Insurance companies to accept people with preexisting conditions is not socialism.

The fine is easily circumvented. Consider this, most people with preexisting conditions have been paying out of their own pocket for some time, it is safe to assume they've crippled or even killed their credit score as a result, and there is nothing preventing companies from denying coverage based on bad credit.

This bill will make 100 percent of Americans rely on the government.

That is incorrect. Only the truly destitute are being allowed on medicaid and there is no public option. If you want to oppose the legislation do it based on points and counterpoints, if you bring nothing to the table you defeat your own cause.

I won't argue that some people may benefit from this bill, I don't and therefore I oppose it. It's petty, it's simple, and it's true. Point of fact I also don't suffer under the plan due to my glorious lack of extravagent wealth so I'm not nearly as spiteful of its existance as I could be.

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hworta269 at 11:38 PM JST - 3rd April

Obama is NOT a constitutional scholar.

Oops there went the little credibility you had left. Obama served as a professor at the University of Chicago Law School for twelve years; he did spend 8 years from 1996 to 2004 teaching constitutional law.

Some of us deal with the facts and some of us don't.

Here is just another of the facts that I post that you won't hear the right talking about:

BEGINS TO CLOSE THE MEDICARE PART D DONUT HOLE - Reduces the donut hole by $500 and institutes a 50% discount on brand-name drugs, effective January 1. 2010.
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TheQuestion at 02:22 AM JST - 4th April

The legislation does not prevent this from happening, it merely punishes firms that do, and more often than not the fine is disproportionately small compared to the crime. But then such is the way of things when you have the insurance industry essentially writing the thing.

IT'S THE LAW!!! What a crock of bullshit that is being spun. The insurance companies will obey they law or the fines will go up, state laws will go after them and their name will get smeared. I have heard enough of this mindless speculation. The insurance companies will obey the law. All these ignorant people acting like it is a suggestion and acting like the fines cannot be increased and applied per incident is in total denial of how business works. Every major insurance company will obey the law. Any that don't will be publicly exposed and dragged through the courts repeatedly. They can be be dragged through the courts for each person. They will then be ordered to comply. If they don't comply they will be found in contempt of court.

The reason I don't answer half of these questions are because they are so sophomoric in nature. Get a grip and stop listening to the idiots that have no idea how the system works.

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Clearly the Democrats are winning over the American people. People on JT were saying 75% of Americans were against the Democratic HCR law that has been passed. Now look:

Some polls indicate that there has been a slight upswing in public support for the measure since its passage drew such massive publicity. Gallup, for example, found that 49 percent of Americans thought passage was "a good thing," while 40 percent thought it was "a bad thing" and 11 percent didn't know. This is a reversal from the findings of most polls before the bill was approved, when a plurality opposed the plan. The poll also found that 15 percent said they were enthusiastic about the bill's passage, 35 percent were pleased, 23 percent disappointed, and 19 percent angry. "Passage of healthcare reform was a clear political victory for President Obama and his allies in Congress," a spokesman for Gallup says. "While it also pleases most of his Democratic base nationwide, it is met with greater ambivalence among independents and with considerable antipathy among Republicans."

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/obama/2010/04/01/democrats-obama-go-on-the-attack.html

So keep on yelling that it is Socialism and that Democrats want to give Viagra to sex offenders. How is that working out for you?

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brotokyo,

What does a feeling of empathy have to do with a "comprehensive" health care system? Again, sorry, you do use the expression "certain sense" so perhaps you can expand on this and while you're at it, define an "unfortunate circumstance".

Was too busy to react to your post right away... Judging from your reaction I did lack a certain sense of empathy ;) My statements may have been too generalizing.

As posted earlier I remember from my own experience in the 70ies that community health care workers in the states were incredibly dedicated and very empathic in how they tried to deal with the shortcomings of public health care for non-insured poor americans. Kudos!

Good though that you realized my phrasing 'certain sense', as I don't believe that conservative right-wing republicans or people who oppose the health care bill are inhumane all together. What I meant with lack of a 'certain sense' of empathy was the rather obvious notion that poor or less well-off people in the US society are not seeing the kind of public support they would have in many other wealthy nations.

I suppose it's a 'you are responsible for your own destiny' attitude, that I don't think is completely wrong. Though I believe that a certain form of 'public or social empathy' for weak and less fortunate people in a society, that manifests itself in clearly defined, reliable and efficient supportive structures provided by the public, is one of the great achievements of human culture. I don't believe in the idea that a majority of poor people just try squeeze anything out of the system they can get. I'm very sure that the percentage of people cheating is exactly the same with rich and poor.

Obviously there are different opinions on how far such structures exist in the US. From my viewpoint and my experience form the 70ies in the states they are underdeveloped and there seems to be a blind spot with the people that so vigorously fight any such structures.

And I can't see that the wealthy majority of americans are in underprivileged, discriminated circumstances that justifies such an outcry like we can observe now in relation to the healthcare bill.

With unfortunate circumstance I mean situations like, being born into a family or neighborhood that doesn't provide you with some of the very basic tools to live a self-determined life in a highly competitive society like the US, or situations in which you are simply very unlucky, like for example loosing your job and becoming seriously ill, or being ill too often, or having pre-existing conditions, etc.

Of course nobody will leave you dying on the streets in the US, but a substandard access to health care, for what ever reason, can obviously have an effect on infant mortality and life expectancy in general and I believe Obamas bill was meant to change that, whether it realy does we will have to see.

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Yeah obama did teach at a university, I still maintain he is no scholar. I have seen pictures of him teaching and on the chalk board he writing things about alensky not the constitution.

And saying because he taught constitutional law therefore all his legislation is constitutional doesnt hold much water. Whats more there was a democrat in illinois that was confronted with the constitutional'ness of the HC bill and he flat out said it wasnt constitutional and he didnt care about laws being constitutional. Howard Dean flat out said this bill is about redistribution of wealth as well as other prominent democrats. Now that its passed they feel like they can say what they wanted to say before but didnt because they were afraid of the bill not passing Congress.

Polls about this thing are mostly warped. The MSM has been spinning our so much propaganda. Scott Brown a republican got elected in deep blue liberal MA saying he would fight against that HC bill and that should sum up what Americans really think about this.

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bamboo, Thanks for your explanation. Nuff said. I don't believe we have major differences and in fact we probably read from the same book.

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IT'S THE LAW!!! What a crock of bullshit that is being spun. The insurance companies will obey they law or the fines will go up, state laws will go after them and their name will get smeared. I have heard enough of this mindless speculation. The insurance companies will obey the law. All these ignorant people acting like it is a suggestion and acting like the fines cannot be increased and applied per incident is in total denial of how business works. Every major insurance company will obey the law. Any that don't will be publicly exposed and dragged through the courts repeatedly. They can be be dragged through the courts for each person. They will then be ordered to comply. If they don't comply they will be found in contempt of court.

Law can be broken, bent, or circumvented. You are under the impression that major institutions fear lawsuits and the petty fines when in reality they have multibillion dollar holding accounts prepped and ready to settle as needed. And don't kid yourself, a vast majority of cases have been, are, and will be settled out of court due to the lengths these companies can go to keep cases in limbo for years.

The reason I don't answer half of these questions are because they are so sophomoric in nature. Get a grip and stop listening to the idiots that have no idea how the system works.

I've been punching the time cards and balancing books for a long time now so I figure I've gleaned some insight to the ways of backroom dealing. I've seen companies do things that were so sickeningly immoral that they may have earned themselves a special circle in hell but they did it to the letter of law. If you think for half a second that the insurance companies are losing any sleep over this legislation you've got another thing coming. Give it a year and the headlines will be about how the healthcare industry has found new and interesting ways to screw over theirr clients. Nothing ever changes so you can either learn the system or get crushed by it.

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here ya guys go, ya want facts you gots 'em

http://mediamatters.org/research/200908200002

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