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Obama visits U.S. mosque; says impression of Muslims distorted

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By DARLENE SUPERVILLE

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"Obama met with Muslim university chaplains, community activists and public health professionals to discuss religious tolerance and freedom."

I wonder what their position is on Muslim women having romantic relationships and marrying non-believers.

13 ( +16 / -3 )

“We must never give them (ISIS) that legitimacy."

So, according to his words and philosophy, the problems should, after 7 years, be nearly non-existant? Seems to me the problem of terrorism is worse and growing. I'd say he either doesn't know the best way or hasn't pursued his own tactics. . . .

1 ( +9 / -8 )

I think our country has been largely well served by a President who has made extensive efforts throughout his Presidency to reach out to others (albeit often unsuccessfully).

This visit is another good step. Its symbolism is far more important than semantics about whether he should visit this or that mosque.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

says impression of Muslims distorted

Some muslims in the US are distorted. . . like the Somalis in Wisconsin who are demanding that employers allow them to interrupt their schedule in order to "pray" in the direction of Mecca.

And the ones who simply do not fit into nor wish to assimilate to western culture.

Although Obama has visited mosques overseas, he waited until his final year in office to make such a visit at home

By delaying the visit to his final moments as president (for fear of political backlash), Obama has just tasted his own hypocrisy and has himself distorted the muslim community.

He denounced what he called an “organized extremist element”

Aka, "Radical Islam." Why won't he call it such?

However, when respondents were asked which religion they consider troubling, Islam was the most common answer

This is why 31 state governors are trying to protect their citizens by refusing to allow islamic refugees into their states. The refugees invited by kerry / obama.

6 ( +16 / -10 )

Now we see who are the real Americans, and who are the fearful, hateful, small-minded little bigots who are Americans by accident of birth alone.

-5 ( +8 / -13 )

All in all, a good speech, I thought. I especially liked the introduction of POTUS done by the young lady. This is ANOTHER case of D if you do, D if you don't.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

I wonder what their position is on Muslim women having romantic relationships and marrying non-believers.

@JeffLee. Their position (if they are 'real' muslims) is that it is strictly forbidden. "Romantic relationships" are something common and "normal" in the west. The muslims are clearly "distotred" on this issue.

They ought to reevaluate that whole sharia gig. . . unless they stay in their native islamic countries.

Now we see who are the real Americans, and who are the fearful, hateful, small-minded little bigots

I'm not posting anything new. I always post comments against the muslim community who expect common america to cater to their needs while refusing to assimilate . And I always attack the pro refugee stance of the obama administration. Take a look at Europe.

3 ( +11 / -8 )

He said those who demonize all Muslims for the acts of a few are playing into extremists’ hands.

Sure, that's true. It's also true that Obama thinks that Islam and Muslims have nothing to do with extremism. The president of the United States is an idiot.

-2 ( +10 / -12 )

Obama said IS and other extremist groups are desperately working to legitimize themselves by masquerading as religious leaders and holy warriors.

“We must never give them that legitimacy. They’re not defending Islam,” Obama said. “The vast majority of the people they kill are innocent Muslim men, women and children.”

Interesting how many are so upset with the President for saying simple truths.

Holding on to religious prejudice certainly takes great effort.

The fruits of that effort can be read here.

Interesting how many are so threatened with the idea that prejudice is unacceptable and the President mentions it from time to time. The horror. The horror.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Holding on to religious prejudice certainly takes great effort.

Well said, but I think prejudice is hard-wired. It can be unlearned, however.

When the Spanish, the first European colonists in what later became the US, brought Roman Catholic priests to the new world their religion clashed with the indigenous people’s. When the various English colonists came to the US the numerous Christian sects clashed with each other and with the native’s religions. Conflicts between Roman Catholics and Protestants still occur. Jews have been discriminated against since they came to the US. The history of the US includes innumerable religious clashes, which are unfortunately ongoing.

Throughout US history, though, there have been individuals and groups willing to confront religious bigotry (and for that matter bigotry of all kinds) and who have worked to pass legislation intended to restrict discrimination. The US is a pluralistic nation. I support no specific religion, but hope the US has not abandoned its commitment to religious pluralism.

The US needs to find ways to marginalize extremists of all sorts, regardless of religious or political belief.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

“for the violent acts of the very few.”

Wonder if these "few" includes the Shaaria "justice" where stoning and beheading is legal.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

So, according to his words and philosophy, the problems should, after 7 years, be nearly non-existant? Seems to me the problem of terrorism is worse and growing. I'd say he either doesn't know the best way or hasn't pursued his own tactics.

When Obama speaks, it has to be true. The anointed one is all seeing and all knowing.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Wonder if these "few" includes the Shaaria "justice" where stoning and beheading is legal.

Yes, that is included in the 'few'.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

But did he say in USA we respect women and a woman has every potential a man has? For official ID the vail comes off? For official identification the veil comes off? And no employer must give special rights to anyone desiring to pray during the workday? No woman shall dress in in the robe after the job is secured. One wife for the fellas. No Forced sex.

Did he remind them that throughout USA history assymilation was the key to success and to do so is what all cultures did in the past. Those who did not are not did not succeed in attaining the American Dream. Strong handed leaders are not tolerated at any level of political leadership.

For the best one.....if you visit the beach and don't like the gals so revealed either learn to tolerate it or leave the beach! Those girls are not targets for abuse or rape.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

So, according to his words and philosophy, the problems should, after 7 years, be nearly non-existant? Seems to me the problem of terrorism is worse and growing. I'd say he either doesn't know the best way or hasn't pursued his own tactics. . . .

The problem of state terrorism (the use of military drones) or state sponsored terrorism (weapon sales to various militia in Libya or Syria) is growing and is a bigger threat to peace.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

The ME is a terrible mess. N. Africa is a mess. The Muslim world is very unsettled. This is potentially a WW3 scenario in the making. The Islam culture simply is outdated and does not fit well with western culture. I say this not as anti Islam, just as Christian extremists while not harmful to others they are not inline with my views. They both find absolution in their faith, not with today's laws.

By the way, churches have been targeted, synagogues have been targeted and mosques are the focus both from the media and the POTUS.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

I wonder what their position is on Muslim women having romantic relationships and marrying non-believers.

Probably similar to those about a single woman dating a married man recently seen in the news, she will be repealed and she will eventually loose her job. Japan has no Sharia's law but it seems to be on similar lines when comes to deal between women VS men by the public opinion.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

"Obama visits U.S. mosque; says impression of Muslims distorted" but will continue to bomb the heck out of them!

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

"Obama visits U.S. mosque; says impression of Muslims distorted" but will continue to bomb the heck out of them!

The US isn't bombing Muslims, it's bombing ISIS.

3 ( +8 / -6 )

Obama could have visited an Alavite, or Ismaili, or Ahmediyya mosque. Those are are moderate sects in islam. Instead, he choses to visit a Muslim-brotherhood/Hamas affiliiated mosque that is under FBI surveillance and preaches stark, backward islam, including veiling and strict sepearation of girls. What does that tell you?

I am not the only one to notice that:

“While the free world awaits a Muslim reformation, the leader of the free world shows blatant disregard for gender equality by visiting a mosque that treats females like second-class citizens.” (Raheel Raza cofounder of the Muslim Reform Movement)

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Obama could have visited an Alavite, or Ismaili, or Ahmediyya mosque. Those are are moderate sects in islam. Instead, he choses to visit a Muslim-brotherhood/Hamas affiliiated mosque that is under FBI surveillance and preaches stark, backward islam, including veiling and strict sepearation of girls. What does that tell you?

It tells me that unlike Donald Trump, Obama isn't afraid to talk to people who may hold different opinions to him. Which is a good trait in a president.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Obama isn't afraid to talk to people who may hold different opinions to him. Which is a good trait in a president.

I see your point. However, wouldn't you agree that it also would have been nice to see him directly support and recognize the vast majority of Muslims who are more moderate, thus showing Americans a side of Islam that is too often ignored?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Strangerland:

" It tells me that unlike Donald Trump, Obama isn't afraid to talk to people who may hold different opinions to him. Which is a good trait in a president. "

But did he say he holds different opinions from them? Can you show that? I thought the event was supposed to be one of those those outreach things, stressing how harmless islam is. In that case, why chose this version of islam?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

While many Republicans applauded both the purpose of Obama's visit and the way that he expressed himself, Rubio had this to say:

I'm tired of being divided against each other for political reasons like this president's done. Always pitting people against each other. Always! Look at today: He gave a speech at a mosque. Oh, you know, basically implying that America is discriminating against Muslims. Of course there's discrimination in America, of every kind. But the bigger issue is radical Islam.

Perhaps urging Americans to look beyond religion and instead focus on behavior does result in "pitting people against each other" - but that would be pitting tolerant, compassionate Americans against xenophobic racists. What would he suggest, expanding the tent to include the latter?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

But did he say he holds different opinions from them? Can you show that?

Them being the "Muslim-brotherhood/Hamas affiliiated mosque" that "preaches stark, backward islam, including veiling and strict sepearation of girls"? No, of course I cannot show that Obama does not hold opinions different from Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood, nor can I show that Obama does not hold opinions different to stark, backwards Islam, and I cannot show that Obama holds an opinion toward girls different than strictly separating them.

But you know, the guy is the president of the United States of America - arguably the most well known name in the world - and there is no shortage of audio, video, and transcripts of things the guy has said. I can't actually show that he holds different opinions, because it's impossible to prove non-existence, but I'm sure you can prove that Obama is in alignment with Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood, and that he preaches a stark, backwards Islam, and that he believes that girls should be strictly separated, since that seems to be what you are claiming. So, let's see it.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

According to the article, Obama said this at this Muslim Brotherhood mosque:

“We’ve seen children bullied, we’ve seen mosques vandalized,” Obama said, warning that such unequal treatment for certain groups in society tears at the nation’s fabric. “That’s not who we are.”

Was he including the women of this mosque too, who are covered and herded into some bleak side room? And for that matter, was he asking this mosque what their opinion about apostates and homosexuals is?

I do not see that from the article. What I see is a "you are just fine, and the critics are just islamophobes" attitude. Show me where I am wrong.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

"Throughout US history, though, there have been individuals and groups willing to confront religious bigotry"

True. But not now. Who now is standing up to Islamic bigotry? (apart from Trump LOL). In today's whacky PC climate, anyone (like me) who points to the oppression of women, homosexuals, and other heretics by Muslims is branded a racist.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

What if the majority of muslims immigrating or who have immigrated to the USA did it to escape sharia law? It's obviously not and will never be the law of the land in USA. I find it ridiculous that people expect them to flip around and start hating people of the same faith. Upstanding people are upstanding regardless of religion. There are violent Christians too, I don't hear you denouncing them.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

“We have to understand: An attack on one faith is an attack on all our faiths,” Obama said. He said it fell on all Americans to speak up.

Sorry but it's not. In their eyes (radical Islamist) they are not doing the bombings and terrorism for any particular country or nation, but in the name of their religion as they see how it should be practiced. I will say this, he is right when he says an attack on one is an attack on all, since they (radical Islamist) don't care if you are Hindu (Muslim attacks in India), Buddhist (Muslim attacks in southern Thailand and in Burma), Catholic (Muslim attacks in Mindanao in the southern Philippines), Eastern Orthodox (Muslim attacks in central Russia); or protestant (Muslim attacks in Europe/America/Nigeria, etc.) They attack one they have attacked them all at one point.

Instead of blaming other religious groups for being a bit apprehensive, maybe he should have told the Mosque it's time to get their house in order.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Strangerland:

" I'm sure you can prove that Obama is in alignment with Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood, and that he preaches a stark, backwards Islam, "

I am not aware that Obama preaches islam, so I can´t comment on that strange request yours.

But about the Muslim Brotherhood --- yes, the advisors that he and Hillary surround themselves with overwhelmingly have Muslim Brotherhood ties, CAIR which is mentioned in this article is a Muslim Brotherhood front group, Obama strongly supported the Muslim Brotherhood takeover of Egypt, and now Obama is visiting a Muslim Brotherhood affiliated mosque.... abnd all that, in your mind, adds up Obama distancing himself from the Muslim Brotherhood.... seriously??

Again, why did he not chose a mosque where women are not treated as second-class humans and where Shariah law is not on the agenda? You tell us.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Alphaape - out of curiosity, what do you as a black man do to get your house (black men) in order, regarding all the guns and drugs and gangs etc?

I am not aware that Obama preaches islam

Oh, then in that case, regarding this question:

But did he say he holds different opinions from them? Can you show that?

You in you own words are agreeing he's not a Muslim, and therefore he has different opinions. So there is no need for me to show it anymore, as we are in agreement.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I made Google image search for words "Ismaili + women" and "Muslim brotherhood + women".

The difference stark.

I am wondering why Obama did not do his mosque visit at an Ismaili center? It is a small sect, but they are certainly part of islam.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Strangelan d:

" Alphaape - out of curiosity, what do you as a black man do to get your house (black men) in order, regarding all the guns and drugs and gangs etc? "

You are asking Alphaape to point out to you (for the umpteenth time on this forum) the difference between a race and an ideology? Seriously?

" You in you own words are agreeing he's not a Muslim, and therefore he has different opinions. "

I am not talking about if he is a muslim. And agreeing on the status of women, of apostates, etc. is not a question of "being a muslim". Unless you now assume that all muslims are of the fundamentalist kind. Is that your new position?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

"True. But not now. Who now is standing up to Islamic bigotry? (apart from Trump LOL). In today's whacky PC climate, anyone (like me) who points to the oppression of women, homosexuals, and other heretics by Muslims is branded a racist."

The thing I find irritating is the people who are quick to call out and ridicule cracked and bigoted ideas from fundamentalist Christians are often the first to shout you down when you call out Muslims for the similar or sometimes much more extreme views. I just think we should be consistent.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Well, JT's Christian and Jewish extremists seem pretty enraged, so Mr Obama must be doing something right.

0 ( +3 / -4 )

The thing I find irritating is the people who are quick to call out and ridicule cracked and bigoted ideas from fundamentalist Christians are often the first to shout you down when you call out Muslims for the similar or sometimes much more extreme views.

I agree we should be consistent in calling out extremists; they're the scourge of the planet, as are bigots. I object when people call out all Muslims, all 1.5 billion and accuse them of living in the stone age and being responsible for the atrocities committed by Daesh, al Shebab etal. Notice you limited Christians to fundamentalists but generalised Muslims. Oversight or intentional?

@Willib I hope you're putting as much effort into electing leaders in your home country who represent your viewpoints as you put into your keyboard warrior-ing on JT. There must be lots of conspiracies going on back in your homeland that need uncovering.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

You are asking Alphaape to point out to you (for the umpteenth time on this forum) the difference between a race and an ideology? Seriously?

No, I'm asking how he is 'getting his house in order'. I didn't ask him about a difference whatsoever - did you maybe address this to the wrong poster?

I am not talking about if he is a muslim.

You asked if I could show that Obama holds different opinions to the people at the Mosque, as I had claimed earlier. Well, since he, as you agree, is not a Muslim, and he is in fact a Christian, then he most definitely holds opinions to the Muslims at the mosque.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Jimizo:

" The thing I find irritating is the people who are quick to call out and ridicule cracked and bigoted ideas from fundamentalist Christians are often the first to shout you down when you call out Muslims for the similar or sometimes much more extreme views. "

I don´t know that anybody here has defended "cracked and bigoted ideas from fundamentalist Christians". Personally, I am atheist, fwiw. But looking in from the outside, I find it absolutely bizarre to even remotely suggest an equivalency between radical Christians and fundamentalist islam. Where are the thousands of Christian terrorist groups? The honor killings, the back-door entrances and burkas for women, the calls for Old Testamentarial law and separate Old Testamentarial law courts fundamentalists Christians in our societies??

I certainly would make that an issue if it existed but in event it looks like a giant strawman to me.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

He said those who demonize all Muslims for the acts of a few are playing into extremists’ hands.

Not many people demonize all Muslims.

A lot of people demonize a lot of Muslims, because large percentages of Muslims think adulterers should receive corporal punishment and apostasy should be illegal. Much lower percentages among US Muslims, but still, significant percentages worldwide.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

"I agree we should be consistent in calling out extremists; they're the scourge of the planet, as are bigots. I object when people call out all Muslims, all 1.5 billion and accuse them of living in the stone age and being responsible for the atrocities committed by Daesh, al Shebab etal. Notice you limited Christians to fundamentalists but generalised Muslims. Oversight or intentional?"

Most sane people ridicule the Christian fundamentalists for denying scientific facts such as evolution ( many posters here do it ). Denying evolution is mainstream, not extreme, in Islam. A Muslim cleric in the UK was given death threats for expressing his view that evolution is a scientific fact.

In my own country of the UK, close to four fifths of young Muslims want homosexuality criminalized. This is in a country where the majority of people accept gay marriage and homosexual acts were decriminalized fifty years ago. You agreed that we should call out bigots. Are you prepared to call the majority of young Muslims in the UK bigots? I wouldn't use the word bigot here, I prefer to think of them as dangerously brainwashed.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

He should be visiting his hometown Chicago where 300 shootings and 53 murders have taken place in black neighborhoods in January.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Jimizo,

sorry I read your message wrong. I quite agree with you about the double standards by the islamopologists.

Imagine Bush had visited some whacky church where women have to enter through the back door into some windowless annex wioth concrete floor.... we would hear the end of it.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Obama doesn't give two shizz about Muslim's. Just more divided and conquer tactics intended to deflect from the bigger issues and get us fighting amongst ourselves.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@WilliB

Of course there is a difference between the Christian crackpots and the Islamic crackpots. The 'cracked and bigoted' ideas I was talking about are denial of scientific facts and bigotry such as homophobia. They do have this in common. Of course I'm not saying even the most primitive and crazed Christians, say GOP Presidential candidates, are promoting the kind of murderous ideas espoused by their Muslim counterparts.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

You agreed that we should call out bigots. Are you prepared to call the majority of young Muslims in the UK bigots? I wouldn't use the word bigot here, I prefer to think of them as dangerously brainwashed.

If they discriminate against homosexuals, I think they should be called bigots. Brainwashed? Are you suggesting that people with belief systems different from yours have been brainwashed? I think most religious (and political) belief systems are whack, but also think religious believers have made personal choices. For whatever reason they've chosen to believe something someone is said to have written or reported to have said at some point centuries ago. Do you believe in British customs because you have been brainwashed?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

PTownsend:

" If they discriminate against homosexuals, I think they should be called bigots. "

Well, then you are calling pretty much the entire islamic population of the world bigots. While the koranic death penalty for homosexuality is not practised everywhere, the condemnation of homosexuality, following the scripture, is pretty much universal, even among moderates. Concepts like "gay parades" or "gay marriage" are simply unthinkable under islam.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

No, I'm asking how he is 'getting his house in order'. I didn't ask him about a difference whatsoever - did you maybe address this to the wrong poster?

Uh, being of black ethnicity is not "taught", it's genetic and behavior varies by individual by habitat and culture not by genetics. Obviously it is impossible currently to change one's ethnicity. Being part of a religion can be taught, or chosen by an individual and changed any time as that person chooses. Big difference and apples and oranges. Very bad analogy.

I've got nothing against muslims in general, but the ideology of their religion and the founder's views that made their religious beliefs what they are today that gave the extremists the basics for how they view what the caliphate should be today. The Shia/Sunni split has been around for centuries and is affecting people globally that have nothing to do with their religious beliefs. While there are plenty of examples of extremism in every religion, none have been so affective to other countries as Islam on a negative basis. It's affected all other religious beliefs in a negative fashion over it's history even up until this day.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

"Do you believe in British customs because you have been brainwashed?"

I believe some and reject others. I've read books by fellow primates who are cleverer than me but are still imperfect primates and as such I don't accept everything they say. I don't believe in perfect books which claim to have the answer to all human problems. I also didn't attend a brainwashing school like the Muslim school reported on in an alarming UK documentary which found ALL students rejecting the theory of evolution and regarding the Koran as a perfect book of science as well as morality.

We all carry biases but there are extremes.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

He said those who demonize all Muslims for the acts of a few are playing into extremists’ hands.

Oh, I get it. The only reason he is doing this is to influence the upcoming election. I wonder how many times he's visited US mosques since being POTUS.

In this year’s Republican presidential campaign, Donald Trump has called for banning Muslims from the U.S. temporarily...

...until the country's representatives figure out what is going on. I don't approve of Trump's comment, but it's not as bad as some make it sound.

"Obama visits U.S. mosque; says impression of Muslims distorted" but will continue to bomb the heck out of them!

The US isn't bombing Muslims, it's bombing ISIS.

Obama is continuing the recent tradition of bombing Muslim countries (Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Lybia, Syria) and he is itching to bomb Iran.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Concepts like "gay parades" or "gay marriage" are simply unthinkable under islam.

And if in Muslim countries that's what the majority want, so be it. Like I've said many times, I find almost all religious and political belief systems whack (with the possible exception of aspects Epicureanism in its original form) and despise cultural and religious extremists and bigots. I find most cultures have beliefs and practices that are less than positive. All cultures are man-made and can be altered. But it's up to members of that culture to make the changes, not outsiders.

If you're afraid Muslims in your country are going to change your country's culture, then you probably should get involved there. I've yet to see keyboard warrior-ing accomplish anything.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

being of black ethnicity is not "taught", it's genetic and behavior varies by individual by habitat and culture not by genetics. Obviously it is impossible currently to change one's ethnicity. Being part of a religion can be taught, or chosen by an individual and changed any time as that person chooses. Big difference and apples and oranges. Very bad analogy.

But you still didn't answer the question - how are you, as a black man, getting your house in order?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

And if in Muslim countries that's what the majority want, so be it.

(what the majority want?) You're a real comedian . . . You're talking about islam. Anything "gay" or same-sex marriage is strictly forbidden.

It would never-ever happen PTownsend. That's as big of a sin as blasphemy to Allah himself.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

But you still didn't answer the question - how are you, as a black man, getting your house in order?

That's easy for me, and I'm not answering for Alhaape. I attempt to guide local black youths to make wiser choices, become better people, and motivate them to try to live better lives. Especially when I see them doing something stupid that could put them counter from the law. I am a mentor when needed to all youths regardless of race when they are putting themselves in situations that can cause harm to themselves or others, and can result in severe life consequences. Doesn't matter who it is or where I am, I will intervene if I see someone doing something wrong, or against the law, or really f'ing up something. There are also many community leaders that strive for the same thing with the same methods.

More muslim's can do this as well as far as Islamic teaching goes, some have, but still receive death threats, prosecution, and more for. Imam's are considered their community leaders and need to pass on to their mosque attendants that each country has laws that supercede their religious laws. And as I said before, you used a bad analogy. Islam needs to be reformed, no if ands or buts about it.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I am sorry but there is no such thing in the kqran. (Radical Muslins). Isis is pure Sunni islam. They action are derive from studying the kqran and what the man did ( Mohammad ). Isis action simulate what would have "Mohammad do" in such event. Isis is doing exactly what Mohammad did. Isis follow the Medenna edition not the first edition ( the Mecca edition). The Medena edition state all of Mohammad action during his life. the Mecca vision leave out the Mohammad atrocious. This is the version that the shite moslam follow. Where the Sunnni follow the Medenna version. It just like the old and new testaments. those who follow the old testament are not refer to as Radical Christians. they are know as orthodox. The Muslin who are not terrorist are less muslin. that is the difference.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

If they are good people, I like people who happen to be muslims.

However, I dislike and strongly disagree with islam.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Good people are good people regardless of their religion. Just that Islam's core teachings don't promote people doing good things. I which is why I'm so critical of it.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Just that Islam's core teachings don't promote people doing good things.

From that comment, I'm guessing you don't actually know what Islam's core teachings are.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

"From that comment, I'm guessing you don't actually know what Islam's core teachings are."

What are Islam's core teachings? Which are core and which are not? Also, according to whom? The problem of who speaks for and has the right to interpret this book is one of the key problems of SunnI Islam in particular. You can find the wonderful idea of killing one person being equivalent to killing the whole world along with the monstrous slay the infidel in the Koran and the Hadiths.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

You can find the wonderful idea of killing one person being equivalent to killing the whole world along with the monstrous slay the infidel in the Koran and the Hadiths.

You can find the same kind of nastiness in the bible, too. Sodom and Gamorah, flooding the world anyone?

The main difference is the lack of an ecumenical council in Islam, no one saying killing and slaughtering over who is the rightful Caliph is batsh*&t insane.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

From that comment, I'm guessing you don't actually know what Islam's core teachings are.

Any teaching based on revealed scripture is anti-rational. That goes for all the Abrahamic religions.

The devil is in the details, and a core teaching of Islam is that non-believers will be deservedly punished in the next life and that free-thinkers (a.k.a. blasphemers) should be punished in this life. So, yeah, the core teachings are wicked.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

"You can find the same kind of nastiness in the bible, too. Sodom and Gamorah, flooding the world anyone?"

That's very true. The Hebrew Bible is full of genocide, rape and racism along with the murderous injunctions but most countries have managed to move away from the idea that these ideas should be the law of the land. This is more difficult in Islam with the idea of Sharia and the fact that the example of Mohammed is very different from the Christian view of Jesus as non-political. One example of this is the 13 countries in the world who carry out executions for blasphemy. It's no coincidence they are all majority Muslim.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

So, yeah, the core teachings are wicked.

I agree. When brain-washed mujahideen strap on C-4 and blow themselves up in order to get into "heaven" along with 72 virgins, yes it is wicked.

The de facto constitution of Saudi (islam's cradle) is sharia law . . . that is wicked too, just as it is barbaric. All those teachings are wrong and wrongly interpreted. This is why all those islamic men in Germany "think" it is perfectly OKAY to fondle western "infidel" women.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Obama visits U.S. mosque; says impression of Muslims distorted

The real truth is that Obama is distorting the truth about even mainstream Muslims. Imagine if Christians were segregating women in churches and treating them as second class citizens the way Muslims do in their Mosques?

http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2016/02/03/obamas-mosque-visit-demonstrates-tacit-acceptance-of-a-form-of-gender-apartheid/

Obama never wastes an opportunity to condemn Christians whom he sees as backwards and sexist. Yet he let's Muslims slide. Why the blatant hypocrisy? It makes no sense.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

takedashingen:

" You can find the same kind of nastiness in the bible, too. Sodom and Gamorah, flooding the world anyone? "

Quite true, however there some major differences, most importantly islamic the founder of islam, who is in islamic doctrine declared the "perfect man" whose behaviour is to be emulated. And his behaviour is troublesome indeed, as you surely know. Also islam is stuck with the concept of literalism (the Koran being the literal word of god, valid for all times). And that applies TODAY, since in islam there has never been an age of enlightenment yet, as the Christian world had in the 18th century.

It is a strange time indeed, where the muslim president of a major muslim country gives a speech at Cairo University addressing the fact that there are grave problems with islam. While in the the Potus goes to Muslim Brotherhood affiliated mosque and declares that islam all A-OK, and all its problems have nothing to do with islam.

Would you not say so?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

From that comment, I'm guessing you don't actually know what Islam's core teachings are.

I obviously know much more than you do, or you wouldn't have made your comment. All you have to do is read the history of Mohammed. That's all you have to do, which you haven't done or you'd know he was not at all the nice little upstanding religious icon you believe him to be.

Historical fact, Mohammed started out with peaceful intention but became increasingly violent. Try and prove that fact wrong and see where it leads.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

"Obama never wastes an opportunity to condemn Christians whom he sees as backwards and sexist. Yet he let's Muslims slide. Why the blatant hypocrisy?" - comments

Some here have lost the details that might help them better understand the world around them.

Since becoming President, Obama has been the subject of prejudice from the likes of Trump to lunatic fringe propagandists like Rush Limbaugh. Many are happy to feed their hate dragon because hating a black President makes them more American. And, some choose to share that here. Nice.

"In June, 2012, Gallup asked, "Do you happen to know the religious faith of Barack Obama?" Forty-four percent said they did not know, while 36 percent said he is a Christian, 11 percent said he is a Muslim, and eight percent said he has no religion. The "don't know" group included 36 percent of Democrats. (A larger number of Republicans, 47 percent, said they didn't know Obama's religion, as did 46 percent of independents.)"

source: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/why-are-americans-confused-about-obamas-religion/article/2560534

Some also seem excited the President went to a Mosque that they personally know a lot about and have decided it wasn't the right Mosque. (although no verifiable sources of these accusations were available at the time of publishing)

These comments show so little actual knowledge of the Mosque, The President's faith and the importance of an individual's right to privacy in regard to faith, it can be concluded that, without any real support, many wish to continue their mini-campaigns of hate just as they have been instructed by the promoters of bigotry in the States.

It is hardly surprising some can repeatedly post absurdity as their state of mind since that is in fact their personal dementia.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

"Obama never wastes an opportunity to condemn Christians whom he sees as backwards and sexist. Yet he let's Muslims slide. Why the blatant hypocrisy?"

All backward religious types should be called out. I can't recall these supposedly very frequent occasions when Obama has called out the Christian nutters. I remember something about the south loving their religion and their guns. I lived in Texas and many told me how much they loved Jesus and firearms ( a strange combination ). Any more examples?

It is also worth pointing out that George W. Bush gushed non-stop about the virtues of Islam. Obama has been less gushing largely because the nutters on the right would take it as proof of his 'true' faith.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Some here have lost the details that might help them better understand the world around them.

No. The muslims in the USA, whom Obama met with, are the ones who might need a little more help to better understand the world around them.

Not the everyday/average americans tolerating, catering and beings sensitive to "their" needs. They're not in Mecca or Medina. They're n' the red/white/blue.

some can repeatedly post absurdity as their state of mind since that is in fact their personal dementia.

Funny. I feel the same. About the "dementia" and "distortion" some muslims leaders repeatedly whine about in the US. They're full of nonsense.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

@kcjapan

Since becoming President, Obama has been the subject of prejudice from the likes of Trump to lunatic fringe propagandists like Rush Limbaugh. Many are happy to feed their hate dragon because hating a black President makes them more American. And, some choose to share that here. Nice.

First off this is a complete non-sequitur. As if Republican presidents have not been given the same treatment form the left! But of course you forget how Obama spent nearly two decades in a racist church that believes in a black separatist ideology. He has also stated that he sees conservatives (many of whom are also Christian) as his enemy. He is the president. He sets the tone in America. Presidents get the credit when things go well and the blame when they don't. Now America is more polarized than at any time since the 1960's. Racial antagonism is high. Americans' on the both the left and right feel anger and are disaffected from the Federal government. You can make excuses for that, but that is all they are - excuses.

These comments show so little actual knowledge of the Mosque, The President's faith and the importance of an individual's right to privacy in regard to faith

Wow - it's acceptable to be sexist and segregate male from female in Mosques because their faith is a private matter? That's pretty weak kcjapan-tea. Would you say the same if a Christian church were doing the same? Of course you wouldn't - and rightly so.

it can be concluded that, without any real support, many wish to continue their mini-campaigns of hate just as they have been instructed by the promoters of bigotry in the States.

The left has reduced itself to reflexively using the word "hate" towards anyone they disagree with. It's tired, old, and it is getting you no where. I guess it makes you feel good to condemn others to make yourself feel morally superior. Good luck with that.

It is hardly surprising some can repeatedly post absurdity as their state of mind since that is in fact their personal dementia.

You are becoming unintelligible.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

There is no distortion of how Muslim people are viewed in America. Americans are more that capable of distinguishing between slavers and terrorists from everyone else. Obama and the Democrats crested a fantasy, a sham, making a claim of biases and division where none exists. This is a centuries old, insidious but effective method to set people against each other. How it works is make a false claim. State publically "some" are fermenting hate for X people. Then lecture, remember how bad your ancestors were for Crusades. Anytime slavery or terror is,brought up, switch the focus from terrorists to non terrorists and again make claims of bias. Then people start to worry more about bias. Every conversation is predecated with a bias test, even here people will assume I must be one of the biased fools because I wrote this post. They start to see bias everywhere. The target or Patsy group, they start to wonder if it's true and start to see bias everywhere too. Then Obama starts taking actions like forcing Islam into schools or visiting a mosque with a lecture, which will cause some to think maybe they should be biased. When they complain about the actions, others get upset at them for the complaints and the insidious lie feeds on itself becoming more and more real. All this because politicians like Obama need division among people, all started from a flat out lie. And,at the same time real victims like the girls being bought and sold into rape slavery in north Africa and the middle east continue to suffer because those in power are more concerned about fake bias over real slavery. There is no bias against Islam in America, that was invented by Democrats.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

What do American Muslims believe?

The Pew 2011 survey of Muslim Americans found that roughly half of U.S. Muslims (48%) say their own religious leaders have not done enough to speak out against Islamic extremists.

Living in a religiously pluralistic society, Muslim Americans are more likely than Muslims in many other nations to have many non-Muslim friends. Only about half (48%) of U.S. Muslims say all or most of their close friends are also Muslims, compared with a global median of 95% in the 39 countries we surveyed.

Roughly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (69%) say religion is very important in their lives. Virtually all (96%) say they believe in God, nearly two-thirds (65%) report praying at least daily and nearly half (47%) say they attend religious services at least weekly. By all of these traditional measures, Muslims in the U.S. are roughly as religious as U.S. Christians, although they are less religious than Muslims in many other nations.

When it comes to political and social views, Muslims are far more likely to identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party (70%) than the Republican Party (11%) and to say they prefer a bigger government providing more services (68%) over a smaller government providing fewer services (21%). As of 2011, U.S. Muslims were somewhat split between those who said homosexuality should be accepted by society (39%) and those who said it should be discouraged (45%), although the group had grown considerably more accepting of homosexuality since a similar survey was conducted in 2007.

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As of 2011, U.S. Muslims were somewhat split between those who said homosexuality should be accepted by society (39%) and those who said it should be discouraged (45%), although the group had grown considerably more accepting of homosexuality since a similar survey was conducted in 2007.

LoL. Then obviously they aren't real muslims. Islam forbids it. Whether 2011-to Feb. 5th 2016 & beyond. Whether a muslim who resides in Raqa, Mogadishu, Medina, Jakarta or any major US city. Take that to the bank & cash it-

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We should look at gun owners the same way some people here look at Muslims. Sure, only a small percentage kill, but...

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This is so tiring. No one - on either side - thinks all Muslims are bad. Not even Trump who only called for a 'temporary' ban on immigration so the government could get it's act together. Immigration into the US is not a right granted to every foreign person in the world. Only the American Left thinks that way. But let's move to our absolutist corners and come out fighting anyway. But then herein lies Obama's problem. He is so politically correct he cannot even see reality right in front of his eyes. He just loves building straw men up so he can tear them down. There has never been anything like it. I suppose that's what it takes for him to feel good about himself.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Alphaape - out of curiosity, what do you as a black man do to get your house (black men) in order, regarding all the guns and drugs and gangs etc?

@ Strangeland: If you have every thumbed through my posts here in JT, you would see that I have called for harsh penalties of the people who commit crimes in the Black community, as well as not adhering to the so called "victimization" mentality that many people blame as the cause of so many of the Black on Black crimes. Also, one thing to remember, I am not an organized religion and have a specific dogma to preach to the world.

Funny how you can say that just because I am black that we all belong to a "house" that we need to get in order, when there are differences of opinion among blacks just as there are among other races and religions. The difference is that this particular mosque has shown a tendency to lean more to the radical side, and even some Muslims have said this was a bad place to visit.

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He said those who demonize all Muslims for the acts of a few are playing into extremists’ hands.

But it's okay for him to 'demonize all gun owners for the acts of a few.'

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

There will come a time when the non-believer will raise and decimated the believers. When this occurs we will be able to say that we are now total civilised. Yes the religious element are dangerous but the non- religious element are far more dangerous to this cult driven world society.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

The good thing is that Obama is on the way out, good riddance.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

why do people say then have read the koran and spell it koran when the correct spelling is Qaran. It indicate that you in fact have not. Or is a display or your feelings of disrespect of a religion. It similar to people saying that I have read the Zible and I know what I am stating. It just not believable.

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One example of this is the 13 countries in the world who carry out executions for blasphemy. It's no coincidence they are all majority Muslim.

Let's not overstate the case. There are only 9 countries where apostasy is a capital crime, and not all of these actually carry out executions of apostates. You're correct that more than 9 countries have laws against blasphemy, but not all of these are Muslim-majority countries and not all of these have the death penalty for blasphemy. But generally speaking, Muslim-majority countries and self-proclaimed Islamic republics take more issue with blasphemy/apostasy than other countries do. Most importantly, this is not some top-down government thing. Large percentages of Muslims around the world agree with these regressive policies. Islam has a huge problem with freedom of thought, conscience and expression. This is why liberal democracies have to cherish these against religious conservatives and the regressive left.

Sources

http://www.loc.gov/law/help/apostasy/apostasy.pdf

The countries surveyed that expressly make apostasy a capital offense are Afghanistan, Brunei, Mauritania, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, the United Arab Emirates, and Yemen. However, only a small number of cases showing the application of these capital punishment laws were identified. Only two cases were identified that resulted in conviction for religious conversion— one in Iran in 1994 and another in Sudan in 2014. The country surveys also indicate that apostasy laws are frequently used to charge persons for acts other than conversion. For example, in Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Yemen, individuals were charged with apostasy for their writings or comments made on social media. Of the countries researched, it appears that Iran is the only one that has executed a person convicted of apostasy to date.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@ Strangeland: If you have every thumbed through my posts here in JT, you would see that I have called for harsh penalties of the people who commit crimes in the Black community, as well as not adhering to the so called "victimization" mentality that many people blame as the cause of so many of the Black on Black crimes.

Yeah, but what has that done to get your house in order? You seem to expect other people are able somehow get their houses in order, but you haven't been able to do it yourself. There are still gangs and drugs and guns in the black community, right?

As a gun owner am I responsible for the law breaker owners?

As peaceful Muslims, are they somehow responsible for the extremists?

why do people say then have read the koran and spell it koran when the correct spelling is Qaran.

There is no 'correct' spelling of it. It's transliterated from Arabic, and there is no specific rule to it.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

choiwaruoyaji: No wrong, I stated one for example. Which you ask for,you did not ask for a list. I did not deny Comfort women, I deny sex slaves. You are very emotional with your statements with no scene of the Asia Society pre or post war. A world dominated by Buddhism. Where having sex is not a demonise practice outside of marriage like the Christian West. You have your point of view, not a over all point of view. which deem you comments bias. Japan commit atrocious. There is no doulting that is a fact. These Korean Women claiming to be sex slave were not old enough to claim they were comfort women. Unlike the Christian west were Pedophile-a is rife and excited ( Christian Priests and Pastors) is a part of society. Pedophile-a was non-excited in Asian society. In Asian pre and post war it was common for girls to be marriage of the age of 13, 14. This is not deem anti-social unlike the Christian West. You are a person coming a from a western society and that explains your one sided view of the Asian society. Christianity is welcome here in Asia just like Islam is welcome in the Christian West.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Strangerland:

" As peaceful Muslims, are they somehow responsible for the extremists? "

You are playing with words here. Those moderate, enlightened Muslims who we SHOULD side with, llike Raheel Raza who I mentioned earlier, ARE saying that there are problems with islam which need to be addressed, and the ARE critical of Obamas Muslim Brotherhood mosque visit. "Responsible" is a vague word; if you are part of an ideology then yes, it is a problem that also includes you; just like you hold all conservatives "responsible" for problems that you see with conservatism.

YOU are the one who generalizes and claims that noboby must address islamic fundamentalism, lest all muslims become fundamentalists. YOU are the one who insults moderate muslims like Raheel Raza by saying they should not say anything critical about islam.

World upside down, very much?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

As peaceful Muslims, are they somehow responsible for the extremists?

Anyone who believes the Qur'an is the literal word of God and Muhammad is an ideal for human conduct is an extremist.

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Jimizo: I am religious but curious about the I.5 billion nutters. If the world population is 9 billion. that make the nutters population Ratio 1:6. If the ratio was 6:1 ( on the other foot ) those who are the other nutters would be dead or became nutters. I think the nutters, have been given enough rope and enough chances and oppituities and 1.7 millennium to change their opposition to 5/6 of the world view to pull their heads in and to tow the line. I can see why a big percentage of the world other nutters want Nutters of the this planet. As for christian terrorist there is plenty of these like the KKK, a home grow USA terrorist organisation allow by the USA government that was dedicated to oppress all religion and races except there own. But the Majority pull their heads in and are towing the line now.

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Jimizo: I am religious but curious about the I.5 billion nutters. If the world population is 9 billion.

The world population isn't 9 billion. And frankly, referring to all 1.5 billion members of one of the world's largest religions is quite disrespectful, especially when only a small number of them are Islamic extremists.

5/6 of the world view to pull their heads in and to tow the line.

Where does this number come from? You seem to be suggesting the other 5/6 of the world are of the same religion.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I meant, I am not religious. So give or take a Billion or two, will not change the ratio much, You know O of the Quran because all non and other nutters and not so nuts, are the enemy of Islam ( the Medina edition of the Quran) not the not so nutters Mecca version of the Quran. This version mention only the teaching of Islam not the action Mohammad a very import detail if are to be muslin. There is no levels or class of Islam. It is, your a muslin or you not ( Medina version ). no in between. You are to follow the action of the top nutter (Mohammad) if you don,t your not a nutter. Those claiming not to be not so nuts realise the ratio is not in favour to be a full nutter and quote the Mecca version. But if the ratio change in favour of the nutters the not so nutters will became nutters has quick as lighting. 5/6 of world is a mix of the other nutters ( the Christian), budisim, Pagan, Shito and non nutters like me.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Anyone who believes the Qur'an is the literal word of God and Muhammad is an ideal for human conduct is an extremist.

Yep. The same goes for those who follow the Hebrew or the Christian Bible, and the patriarchs. In the US, 3 in 10 say they take the Bible literally.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/148427/say-bible-literally.aspx

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@Black Sabbath

Yep. The same goes for those who follow the Hebrew or the Christian Bible, and the patriarchs. In the US, 3 in 10 say they take the Bible literally.

That's funny because I haven't heard of any accounts of Christian or Jewish extremists slaughtering dozens of Muslims in the streets screaming 'Praise Jesus' at the top of their lungs. Do you think that the media is failing to reports these heinous acts of terror because they are covering for crazy Jews and Christians?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Should Muslims not be President, as a couple of GOP candidates have said?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

You know O of the Quran because all non and other nutters and not so nuts, are the enemy of Islam ( the Medina edition of the Quran) not the not so nutters Mecca version of the Quran.

There's only one "edition" of the Qur'an. You're probably referring to the more peaceful Meccan verses, which were abrogated by the later, more violent Medinan verses.

I wrote:

Anyone who believes the Qur'an is the literal word of God and Muhammad is an ideal for human conduct is an extremist.

Black Sabbath wrote:

Yep. The same goes for those who follow the Hebrew or the Christian Bible, and the patriarchs. In the US, 3 in 10 say they take the Bible literally.

You almost have a point. The difference is that no-one looks to King David, for example, as a moral exemplar. His crimes are part of the bible and are explicitly stated as being displeasing to god. (He used Uriah the Hittite as cannon fodder in order to marry Uriah's wife, Bathsheba.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathsheba

The moral exemplar in the Bible is Jesus. Here are some differences between Jesus and Muhammad.

Jesus: Didn't own slaves.

Muhammad: Bought, sold, captured and slept with slaves. (As well as manumitting some.)

Jesus: Once got really ticked off and threw some bankers out of a temple. Preached peace even when confronted with force. Lived and died as a pacifist.

Muhammad: Ordered the beheading of prisoners of war. Sanctioned the rape of slaves. (Qur'an 4:24) Ordered military actions for plunder. Ordered non-Muslims to pledge submission or be killed. Established differential taxation for non-Muslims.

Jesus: Lived ascetically. Preached against material wealth.

Muhammad: Lived ascetically--except for his multiple wives. Had few possessions, but did own slaves. Encouraged his followers to plunder caravans; created rules for dividing the spoils of war.

I can keep going, but I think you get the point. I can also comment about the differences in scriptural status between the Bible and the Qua'ran in the respective religions if you like. It's true that any Christians who take the Old Testament as literal truth and as applicable today are extremists. Very few do.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Nessie: Read 9.0 onward Medina edition. and a proper English interpretation. Sunni nutters study the man Mohammad what he did then relate he action with the Medina verse. THis is exactly what ISis is doing. They are not going over the top when concerning the teaching of the Medina edition. THis is opposite to what the politician are saying. Mecca nutters quote the verse but know of Mohammad action. Mecca Nutters are despot also but know that the odd are not in there Favor to go full Medina nutters. It the interpretation by each sect , Shia, sunni, shite that label them so call fundamental, mods, racials. LIke i said if Islam was the dominate religion in this world you would be full nutter Islamist or dead. Really I see the Mecca edition was written for women of Islam LOL. The Jew of Medina were not at war with Islam yet drag out into the desert and there throats slit not beheaded. Notice ( which is totally sick ) how the Isis do the same with hostages. They do not behead because they are following Mohammad action to the word. English version often get beheading mix up with the slitting of the throat. I am not sure but I think beheading is the punishment for politic criminals. Yes Juesus went nuts not because of the fee to enter the Temple. which was half shekels coin and only that coin. You could not pay with a shekel and get change it had to be a half shekel. he went nuts because the bankers hold all the half shekels in Jewroulum which was the lowest currency domination and not many were minted. Which the Banker were exchanging for 3 shekels. So Jesus when berserk tore the place apart. All the people praise him for violence and that how he became a the Man.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Read 9.0 onward Medina edition. and a proper English interpretation. Sunni nutters study the man Mohammad what he did then relate he action with the Medina verse. THis is exactly what ISis is doing. They are not going over the top when concerning the teaching of the Medina edition.

They're not separate "editions". It's all in one volume and they're all the same in Arabic (or else!). That's what I'm saying.

So Jesus when berserk tore the place apart. All the people praise him for violence and that how he became a the Man.

Can you name one person Jesus injured?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

What kind of injured ? like Brainwashing, That a mental injury which effect those that are non religious. This might seem good from your point of view. It a Bad from my point of view, This leads to family break up and alienation of the family, When Family is not religious. I not bias when it come to religion, I do not say this one is bad and this good. I say they are mental inept and refer to all of them as nutters or full nutter or not so nuts like Pagans.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

What kind of injured ? like Brainwashing,

I was thinking more along the lines of physical injury, like the people beheaded at Muhammad's command.

That a mental injury which effect those that are non religious. This might seem good from your point of view.

Nope. I'm an atheist. I think Christian theology is bunk. But I do think Jesus is a much better moral exemplar than Muhammad.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Ok, Yes majority of Atheist ( Non - Nutters) see Jesus as good person But I don,t I see that deception ( mericals ) turning water into party fuel make a good person. My view is one used deception ( conman) the other used Violence (Top Nutter ) to get the masses on side and follow them.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@ Nessie, thanks for giving them the side by side comparison. I've been saying this since forever, but I doubt they'll ever get it. Comparing Mohammed's actions as a religious founder to Jesus or Buddha is like comparing apples and oranges. All 3 are major religions in the world today, but one of them is causing the most trouble because of their founder's own beliefs and historical actions.

Remember the wonderful billboards being posted a while ago in NYC about how Mohammed stood up for women's rights, and human rights? Biggest farce ever.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

you see this is the problem LOL if you were Islamic, the trouble makers are the infidel ( anyone whom does not follow Islam). If your Christian muslin are are the trouble makers. Us Athish have to live with all this s%$#

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

you see this is the problem LOL if you were Islamic, the trouble makers are the infidel ( anyone whom does not follow Islam). If your Christian muslin are are the trouble makers. Us Athish have to live with all this s%$#

Don't make a mountain out of a molehill. There are extreme views on all sides including atheism. Basic thing is, nobody should be telling anybody what they should or should not believe as long as they're not breaking the law. As far as countries with freedom of religion goes. Religion or non-religion is and always should be about self-governance, not governance of others.

II've never been told there is a law that says I have to go to a church, synagogue, temple, mosque, or voodoo ritual every week. Last time I saw an excessive bible thumper on the streets was a good 13 years ago. In an Islamic country if you professed out loud you're anything but muslim, good luck with the persecution.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

If logic is persecution so be it. If asking to pull your head in and two the line (living together, living with differences, living in Harmony) is persecution. I have to say you have a warp sense of the word persecution.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

There are extreme views on all sides including atheism.

There is no such thing as atheist doctrine.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The golden rule of Mosque is non believer is not allowed to enter their sacred place. Is Obama really Christian? If he is, he is not allowed to enter until he converted to Islam. Besides that his middle name is Hussein.

Pop Queen Madonna mentioned once. She does not care about her president praying which God. As far as he is doing the good job for America.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

The golden rule of Mosque is non believer is not allowed to enter their sacred place.

This is not true. You may be thinking of Mecca, which is off-limits to non-Muslims. And there are correlates in other religions, although I'm not aware of an entire city in any other religion that bans those of other religions.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Nessie

Most of the western nations including UK and US have many mosques will allow the non believers visiting inside. .The reason is they do not want to be seen as hostile, unfriendly and preaching the hates In South East Asian nations, it is the different story. My birth place known as Myanmar even displayed sign in Burmese as non Muslim not allowed. It was 25 years agon.

Interestingly there will be no statues or paintings inside Mosques unlike Churches or Buddhist temples. It will be empty insides anyway. Afgan and Irag are war torn nations. They will accept female politicians and reporters wearing scarfs. Not in SE Asia communities who thinks females are inferior species. Some people still lives in medical era.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

There is no such thing as atheist doctrine.

"Religion is a crutch for the weak", "I don't believe in anything why should you?" are just a few things I've heard. Atheism has it's own little mantra, just not based on a religious belief system.

Not a doctrine but statements such as "All religion should be abolished by law" is equally as dangerous as "All people should believe in a religion by law."

I'm happily agnostic, and until I know everything there is to know about life, the universe, and everything (hope someone gets that).

Humanity doesn't even know everything there is to know about our own planet. So claiming that nothing exists outside our own current knowledge without knowing every possibility that the universe (and possibly beyond even that) has to offer is pretty close minded. We can't finalize what we can't finalize.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Correction for Medical era as Medieval era.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Thank you for your post, Athletes. It's always a pleasure to hear from people who are less represented on this website. And I enjoyed visiting Myanmar.

Most of the western nations including UK and US have many mosques will allow the non believers visiting inside. .The reason is they do not want to be seen as hostile, unfriendly and preaching the hates

Part of it is that they're enthusiastic about their religion and want to show it in a good light. There's nothing sinister about that. In most Mosques around the world, it's my understanding that non-Muslims are welcome, provided they follow the rules (which could include gender segregation; sorry, ladies).

In South East Asian nations, it is the different story. My birth place known as Myanmar even displayed sign in Burmese as non Muslim not allowed. It was 25 years agon.

That's unfortunate, but you have to admit that it might be attributed to the sectarian/inter-faith/intercultural violence that Myanmar has seen.

Interestingly there will be no statues or paintings inside Mosques unlike Churches or Buddhist temples. It will be empty insides anyway.

I actually like this aspect of Islam. It's a good measure against idolatry--up until you start assassinating cartoonists, that is. Buddhism started out with an anti-idolatrous stance but abandoned it pretty quickly.

Afgan and Irag are war torn nations. They will accept female politicians and reporters wearing scarfs. Not in SE Asia communities who thinks females are inferior species. Some people still lives in medical era.

Well Thailand has had a woman prime minister and, as a Myanmarese, you must know that so has Myanmar. You might be interested in this map of the global gender gap. You'll see that SE Asia scores better than most of the Middle East and North Africa. But there's always room for improvement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Gender_Gap_Report#/media/File:2013_Gender_gap_index_world_map,_Gender_Inequality_Distribution.svg

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Black Sabbath:

" Anyone who believes the Qur'an is the literal word of God and Muhammad is an ideal for human conduct is an extremist. " " Yep. The same goes for those who follow the Hebrew or the Christian Bible, and the patriarchs. In the US, 3 in 10 say they take the Bible literally. "

Well, and there is the problem right there. It is one thing to emulate a celibate, pacifist hippie type,and another thing to emulate a murdering, robbing, harem-keeping, sex-slave owning pedophile warlord.

Fundamentalist Christians have the option to live in a monestary if they want to be like Jesus; for fundamentalist muslims the closest is to go on a jihad.

And that is also the problem for Obama when he tries to preach that his sugar-coated image of muslims applies to all; of course most nominal muslims do not try to imitate their prophet, but alas a large number of fundamentalist radicals do.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Not a doctrine but statements such as "All religion should be abolished by law"

Nice straw man you've got there.

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The golden rule of Mosque is non believer is not allowed to enter their sacred place. Is Obama really Christian? If he is, he is not allowed to enter until he converted to Islam.

What? I'm not Muslim, and I've been in a mosque. Seems to be some faulty language you're using there. And if you still want to believe what you are saying, then check out this very non-Muslim guy, filming an interview in a mosque: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cF61fMylk-Q

I'm happily agnostic, and until I know everything there is to know about life, the universe, and everything (hope someone gets that).

That one is easy - it's 42.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Athletes:

" The golden rule of Mosque is non believer is not allowed to enter their sacred place. "

That is not true. Non-believers can enter a mosque, unless they intend to prosyletize, which would shorten their lifespan drastically. Maybe you are talking about the Grand Mosque in Mecca? That is verboten for non-muslims. In fact, the whole city of Mecca is. Talk about inclusiveness...

" Is Obama really Christian? "

He says he is, so I take his word for it. He was muslim when he was Barry Soetoro in Jakarta, so at some time he must have de-converted out of islam. He does not say when that happened, and don´t expect the media to ask him.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Why not? The MSM has questioned his birth place and pretty much everything else about him, so why wouldn't they question that?

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`Strangeland:

" Why not? The MSM has questioned his birth place and pretty much everything else about him, so why wouldn't they question that? "

Which MSM? Is there a parallel universe out there? The MSM that I see have been busy ridiculing and lambasting anybody who questions O.s birth place as a "birther". I have not seen any enthusiasm to "question" anything about the guy in 7 years.

So yes, based on that track record I don´t expect any reporter to ask him when he became an apostate. Do you? Seriously?

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Which MSM?

Fox "News".

The MSM that I see have been busy ridiculing and lambasting anybody who questions O.s birth place as a "birther".

Fox "News" went on about it for months until it was finally shown to be incorrect.

I have not seen any enthusiasm to "question" anything about the guy in 7 years.

Do you not watch Fox "News"?

So yes, based on that track record I don´t expect any reporter to ask him when he became an apostate. Do you? Seriously?

Yeah, Fox "News" has never given the guy a free ride on anything, and for that matter has made up more than enough lies. Why would they not go after something that they actually believe to be the truth?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

HonestDictator wrote:

Not a doctrine but statements such as "All religion should be abolished by law"

Atheists are generally more knowledgeable about religion than most religionists.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2010/09/28/130191248/atheists-and-agnostics-know-more-about-bible-than-religious

The Pew Forum on Religious Religion and Public Life released a survey on religious knowledge today. Atheists and Agnostics scored higher on it than anyone else, closely followed by Jews and Mormons, all Christians, Protestants and Catholics, were far behind.

And atheists tend to support freedom of speech, conscience and religion more than religionists do. So I'll keep advocating for freedom of religion among Christians, Muslims, etc, while they work to stifle and legislate against views they disagree with.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Strangerland;

" Which MSM? Fox "News" "

That is one single station out of what, a dozen? How about the rest of the alphabet soup, the BBC, CNN; ABC, NBC, MSNBC, AP, Bloomberg, etc etc. Not to mention the print media like NYT, Guardian, Independent etc etc.

All I have seen across the board is ridicule of the "birthers"; maybe someone somewhere took a birther question seriously, but if they did I missed it.

You claim that "Fox New", again one single organization, the one and only outlier that is apparently not 100% Obama sycophantic, did. OK, I take your word for it I dont get or watch "Fox News",

But iif you meant "Fox News", you should say that, and not "MSM". What is it with this bizarre obession with "Fox" that some people here seem to have, anyway?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The hate against Muslims is fanned by criminal fakes themselves. An important example is Wayne Simmons. He was hired by FOX as a person with "CIA credentials to get on TV and work with the Pentagon"

Don't take extreme right wing news entertainment so seriously since the "experts" are really entertainers. It's funny how some people who want to take on the established establishment (the Obama WH) end up busted themselves.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

That is one single station out of what, a dozen? How about the rest of the alphabet soup, the BBC, CNN; ABC, NBC, MSNBC, AP, Bloomberg, etc etc. Not to mention the print media like NYT, Guardian, Independent etc etc.

What about them? I was simply pointing out that the MSM has never been shy to question anything else about him, why would they get shy about questioning his supposed change from Islam to Christianity.

All I have seen across the board is ridicule of the "birthers"; maybe someone somewhere took a birther question seriously, but if they did I missed it.

Well, it was pretty ridiculous.

But iif you meant "Fox News", you should say that, and not "MSM".

But Fox "News" is MSM. So I meant MSM. If you don't like that, well that just points out the utter ridiculousness of the term MSM.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Strangerland:

" What about them? I was simply pointing out that the MSM has never been shy to question anything else about him, "

You must live in a parallel universe. The MSM (perhaps with one exception, that you keep referring to) have been extremely shy to question anything about Obama.

" why would they get shy about questioning his supposed change from Islam to Christianity. "

There is nothing "supposed" here. He WAS registered as Muslim, and now he says he is NOT. So there must have been a change. There is is nothing "supposed" about it.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

There is nothing "supposed" here. He WAS registered as Muslim, and now he says he is NOT. So there must have been a change. There is is nothing "supposed" about it.

Registered by whom, according to whom?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

So what Peoples often changed Faith/Religion.

Plus, his Faith should have no impact on his skills as a leader, in my country faith has no impact on how we select our leaders, should be same for the sex, race, etc you elect someone based on their capabilities and according to pary affiliation' or whatever.

Since we elect leading party on a 4yr term and State president on a 6yr one of is common that he is not of the leading party.

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You must live in a parallel universe. The MSM (perhaps with one exception, that you keep referring to) have been extremely shy to question anything about Obama.

You don't watch Fox "News"? If you did, you'd realize that the MSM questions him on everything.

There is nothing "supposed" here. He WAS registered as Muslim, and now he says he is NOT.

It's 'supposed', because all we have is your claim, without anything whatsoever to back it up.

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Plus, his Faith should have no impact on his skills as a leader, in my country faith has no impact on how we select our leaders, should be same for the sex, race, etc you elect someone based on their capabilities and according to pary affiliation' or whatever.

If you think evolution is bunk and the earth is only a few thousand years old (I'm looking at you, Ben Carson), then you probably have a cavalier attitude to facts. That's where I draw the line.

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