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Obamacare repeal vote put off in stinging setback for Trump

101 Comments
By ERICA WERNER and ALAN FRAM

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And I thought Trump wrote art of the deal. Hmmm

21 ( +23 / -2 )

Take that, Dumb Donald !

19 ( +20 / -1 )

GOP, for God's sake, do the right thing here, vote this bill down and get started on taking out the orange clown who is making the US a laughing stock of the world and a danger to every interest we have professed for over 200 years. We don't need another Revolutionary war just to prove we elect sane, moral people in the end.

28 ( +30 / -2 )

Happy this wasn't rammed down our throats, so quickly. Let's work the problem and forget the politics. Please.

Sadly, another bill was passed that lets internet providers sell all data they see was passed.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Good, now they need to take their time, up and modify the bill and pass it. Dodged that bullet.

-30 ( +3 / -33 )

What a mess.

16 ( +17 / -1 )

Will never happen. Dead end. Cul de sac. Dogs barking up wrong tree. Ryan's idea was to push this POS through Congress before people noticed (i.e., before the two-week Easter break, when congressmen will all go home to meet their constituents - during a holiday whose importance is sacrifice, of all times), and that will not happen. There will be no Friday vote. This bill is dead.

There is zero to like about the bill and no way to fix it, but really, it was a fools errand. No way to thread the needle between extremist demands and pragmatic reality ever existed. A sane approach would be to work with Democrats to improve the ACA, but the operative word here is "sane."

Trump bungled this. His promises of "a great plan, a terrific plan" were completely hot air as many had suspected and most should now know. There was never a plan, and all Trump could do to corral his caucus was to threaten - that the voters would retaliate (he's new to the game; congressmen have a far more sense of their district's pulse) or that he would personally (puhleeeze - two months into Trump's presidency and he's already emasculated).

Interesting times.

18 ( +18 / -0 )

Tony Schwartz actually wrote "The Art of the Deal" and he's on record saying that Trump isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.

But you have to give Trump credit. He's a carnival huckster who understands how gullible the average person is.

14 ( +15 / -1 )

I said here before many times that republicans would never repeal Obamacare, because they are as eager to spend other people's money as democrats are. As an immense, complicated, and extremely overpriced program, it is very easy to extract money and favors from it, and many politicians in either party will profit immensely by being able to award contracts to service providers.

America spends more tax revenue on healthcare than any other country, by far, and yet, Obamacare is not universal care. It is expensive, has deductibles (some are very large), and care limits. Despite spending so much money, a great deal of those who subscribe to Obamacare pay far larger premiums than I pay for my care here in Japan, with deductibles ranging from 4 to 5 figures. The young and the healthy, and the self-employed are hit hardest by these premiums, and many prefer to pay the penalty rather than subscribe.

America either needs to completely remove government from healthcare (it is state subsidies which have distorted the American healthcare market, and led to skyrocketing costs), or create a simple, single-payer system. Neither political party wants either option, because a private system without any state interference would cut off graft-generating contracts, and while a single-payer system would still create numerous bags of cash for crooked politicians, they would not be able to milk as much from the taxpayers and the medical industry as they could under Obamacare.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

...or create a simple, single-payer system. Neither political party wants either option...

Disagree. I'd bet you the tamales I'm having for breakfast now (jeeze, I love my wife) that if political constellations aligned with full Dem control, a single payer system would be realized in an instant. The only reason it was lacking under the ACA was to avoid a GOP fillibuster.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Will never happen. Dead end. Cul de sac. Dogs barking up wrong tree. Ryan's idea was to push this POS through Congress before people noticed (i.e., before the two-week Easter break, when congressmen will all go home to meet their constituents - during a holiday whose importance is sacrifice, of all times), and that will not happen. There will be no Friday vote. This bill is dead.

So they take the time and rewrite the bill. Who said sausage making was great, even though it tastes wonderful.

There is zero to like about the bill and no way to fix it, but really, it was a fools errand.

Hey! it's not the end of the world. They'll work it out, they have to.

No way to thread the needle between extremist demands and pragmatic reality ever existed. A sane approach would be to work with Democrats to improve the ACA, but the operative word here is "sane."

Huh? Come again? The Dems? Yeah, good luck, that's all I have to say to that.

Trump bungled this. His promises of "a great plan, a terrific plan" were completely hot air as many had suspected and most should now know.

He didn't necessarily bungle it, it was congress and the blame sits with them, Trump is just the president. Congress will get ahold of this, not too worried about it, as long as they can work to get the premium rates down, they'll be ok.

There was never a plan, and all Trump could do to corral his caucus was to threaten - that the voters would retaliate (he's new to the game; congressmen have a far more sense of their district's pulse) or that he would personally (puhleeeze - two months into Trump's presidency and he's already emasculated).

The liberal Kool aid must be extra cool and sweet today. LOL

-20 ( +1 / -21 )

The legislation would eliminate some of the requirements, taxes and penalties from Obama’s health care law, but also would mean millions would lose their health insurance, older voters would pay higher premiums and Medicaid coverage would shrink for many low-income voters across the country.

Good on the few GOP lawmakers who opposed the bill and didn't forget that their main job is to represent the people who voted them into office. Any bill that means less for elderly, low-income earners and more generally 'millions' of ppl, is a bad one.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Trump's bringing them out of the woodwork.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

finally we can put to rest this ludicrous idea that trump is some great negotiator. all he's done during this whole process is to capitulate to whatever demands have been made by various factions of the republican party. and he still couldn't cajole enough recalcitrant representatives to vote yes.

who knew healthcare could be so complicated?!?!?

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Trump's whole administration is slowly unravelling...

8 ( +9 / -1 )

America either needs to completely remove government from healthcare (it is state subsidies which have distorted the American healthcare market, and led to skyrocketing costs), or create a simple, single-payer system.

The first option would put in all on the private sector, and I don't really trust them to put people's lives over profits. That leaves the second option, and the ACA is a step toward it. If the GOP really cared about healthcare, they'd fix and improve the ACA.

Scrapping it is such blatant political move to take credit away from the Democrats. Because regardless of whether it's a money loser, people have started to depend on Obamacare. Ironically, the threats to take it away are what's finally causing Trump to lose favor with his base.

Neither political party wants either option

There are some in the Democratic party that want the single-payer plan. Affordable healthcare wasn't even on the Republican agenda before Obamacare.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

There was “no plan B,” the White House said.

There was never even a plan A. The Republicans were just like so many posters on this site - whining without a solution to what they were whining about. Obstruction rather than opposition. Partisanship over the people.

I wonder how long until Trump says 'nobody knew being president could be so complicated'.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Looks like Trump has thrown down the gauntlet by demanding a vote on Friday. Regardless of whether the president can dictate the House's schedule (answer: he can't), this seems like a bad idea.

See, it's one thing to promise pudding tomorrow and then repeat that incessantly - that has been the GOP gambit in a nutshell, actually - but quite another to say "No pudding!" which is the message a defeat of Ryan's bill would send. It is quite embarrassing when a long-term promise embodied in a bill your party wrote cannot pass a legislative chamber your party controls.

So now we have two things to watch: Whether Ryan rolls over and - likely against his better judgement - accedes to Trump's ultimatum by allwing a vote; and whether the bill actually passes. (There's a third: who takes the blame. Trump and his coterie have never much liked Ryan. Not a good day to be him.)

11 ( +11 / -0 )

Apparently, the set-back will occur on Friday because Trump wants a vote then.

If the Congress does vote on the bill, the GoP will get shot down on their first attempt to pass the repeal because they don't have the votes.

Trump forcing this through is another amateur and stupid move. Surely there is someone who can tell him no or try to educate this loon.

I'm happy for them to vote on it because it will end the current farce.

So now we have two things to watch: Whether Ryan rolls over and - likely against his better judgement - accedes to Trump's ultimatum by allwing a vote; and whether the bill actually passes. (There's a third: who takes the blame. Trump and his coterie have never much liked Ryan. Not a good day to be him.

If I attribute rational thought to Trump, then I would agree that this was a play to marginalize Ryan, again.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Not surprised to see all the gleeful responses here. Dont worry, delaying is better than ramming something down our throats that we couldnt read in advance and ended up not wanting. I also dont like parts of the proposal and I think they should be able to do better considering they had 7 years. So they need to take the time to get it right before making it a law. They could just make it a law now so that snarks on the internet cant say its a 'stinging setback for Trump' but no one cares about that kind of stuff anymore, just get it right.

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

Looks like Trump has thrown down the gauntlet by demanding a vote on Friday.

And

Trump forcing this through is another amateur and stupid move.

And everyone thought he would be such a good president since he was able to run a company.

What 'everyone' didn't realize is that running a country and running a company are entirely different skillsets.

They elected a turd, and are now complaining because he smells like shit.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

I have to say, I'm a bit disappointed. Making healthcare unavailable and unaffordable to Trumpettes was a noble and bold longterm plan to make America great again

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Not surprised to see all the gleeful responses here.

Call it schadenfreude. Trump is finally being exposed for the snake salesman he is.

Too bad it couldn't have happened before the election though.

I think they should be able to do better considering they had 7 years.

That's because for seven years they whined about the ACA without actually coming up with something better. Seven years is around seven times as long as it took the Obama administration to come up with the ACA, yet the Republicans only came up with something about 1/7 as good as the ACA.

A complete and utter failure by a party of whiners who only cared about obstructing, not being an effective opposition.

Imagine the shambles the country would have been in had one of their 52 attempts to repeal healthcare while Obama was in office actually been successful.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

They could just make it a law now so that snarks on the internet cant say its a 'stinging setback for Trump' but no one cares about that kind of stuff anymore, just get it right

they, the republicans, can't just "make it law." you clearly have zero understanding of how the legislative process works. this "bill" then must then go to the senate, where it will clearly die, to be debated and then voted upon. but hey, whatever you said just sounds cool, right?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Check out the transcript with all the Trump's untruths redacted, which was much of the interview, I was shocked especially with him being the POTUS.

Wow, that's crazy.

I think using the word 'lie' is often incorrect though. It represents a willful intent to deceive, by spreading falsehoods that one knows to be false. I think the so-called president actually believes a lot of what he says, so he cannot be said to be lying. He's just really stupid.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Conservatives are opposing because too costly. Liberals are opposing because millions of people will not be covered. Trump ,increased Military budget so several national agencies are going to be broke.. China is not going tool buy US debt bond. Officials are dreaming maybe Japan will be a sucker. Meanwhile Abe is cooozy with Europpe.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I've been saying for a while now that the GOP is too fractured to produce major policy. This is a pretty good example of that.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Stranger, this is a tactic used by people on the manic idiot-savant borderline: They pretend to be such friggin' geniuses that a line between what is brilliant and what is pulled out of their @ss is not easily discernible, particularly as the leap from topic to topic like a squirrel on meth. With Trump, I suspect he knows he's lying; he just doesn't understand the consequences.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

In a last-minute effort to sink the Republican health care bill, a powerful network of conservative donors said Wednesday it would create a new fund for Republican 2018 reelection races — but they’ll only open it up to GOPers who vote against the bill.

The advocacy groups helmed by Charles and David Koch have unveiled a new pool of money for advertisements, field programs and mailings that would exclude those who vote for the health care bill they oppose on Thursday. The effort, which they described as worth millions of dollars, is an explicit warning to on-the-fence Republicans from one of the most influential players in electoral politics not to cross them.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

In a last-minute effort to sink the Republican health care bill, a powerful network of conservative donors said Wednesday it would create a new fund for Republican 2018 reelection races — but they’ll only open it up to GOPers who vote against the bill.

But I thought Trump was the great unifier. Wasn't he going to bring everyone together?

He can't even bring his own party together.

I know his Trumpeters here on this site don't want to admit how much of a failure he is turning out to be, after they went on about how good he would be. But I think we all know that they must be seeing how much they screwed up by supporting him.

He's a complete and absolute failure. Only 45 months to go!

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@Strangerland The 'conservative donors' in question are the KOCH brothers, which makes all the difference in the world as far as context.

http://time.com/4654523/donald-trump-koch-brothers-worries/

And there are few signs that this confab of insiders will unify behind Trump any time soon, especially if he moves forward on big price-tag items like tax reform or an infrastructure program. In fact, the Koch-organized network has largely existed solely as an opposition wing of the Republican Party. >

So Republicans had 7 years to make a new Obamacare. Trump is for that and makes it a campaign promise, gets elected and shows up and says ok lets do it. They say, well ok we will start putting it together. They write a bill (not Trump) that doesnt seem to do what it needs to. Paul Ryan assures the President he is in control and they have the votes they need. Except they dont, not even close. Ryan cant control his own group.

So now Trump is a complete and absolute failure simply because he got elected to make this group of Republican Congress leaders and misfits work?

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

bass4funk: "Good, now they need to take their time, up and modify the bill and pass it. Dodged that bullet."

Now THAT is the very definition of "sour grapes". Well done. Strangerland take note of how the expression works.

In any case, it is quite funny to see the Trump apologists on here saying, "Good! We didn't really want it to go to a vote! Now they can make it good! (even though you wanted it before it was 'good', in your own words). So, now, answer this: if you now think it's good to wait and "make the sausage" (as you've called it twice for some reason, bass, referring to the bill as minced meat packed in poop tubes), do you think it's stupid of Trump to demand the vote be held Friday morning as is?

Oops!

6 ( +7 / -1 )

I think the only way to bring down costs and expand the number of people covered is to bring in some sort of national medical insurance system, as is found in most western countries.

But this is anathema to many republicans as they hate the very idea of taxes and being told what to do by government. They will remain split and at an impasse, unable to do anything.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@Strangerland The 'conservative donors' in question are the KOCH brothers, which makes all the difference in the world as far as context.

Yeah - they are Republicans. He is the leader of the Republican party. He can't even unify his own side, after going on about how he was going to bring everyone together.

So Republicans had 7 years to make a new Obamacare. Trump is for that and makes it a campaign promise, gets elected and shows up and says ok lets do it.

Trump claimed to have a plan during his campaign. His claims weren't on being on-board with the (as we now know, non-existent) Republican plan on health care. His claims were that he had a plan and that everyone would be covered, it would be cheaper, and there would be no cuts to medicade.

Ryan cant control his own group.

Ryan isn't the leader of the Republican party, Trump is.

So now Trump is a complete and absolute failure simply because he got elected to make this group of Republican Congress leaders and misfits work?

Yep. Pretty much.

You guys elected a turd. We're just pointing out the smell.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

I can answer that last part, based on what I think at least. Yes, I think it is SMART of Trump to demand the vote tomorrow.

Republicans in Congress have had 7 years to prepare this, delaying a month is unnecessary and delays tax reform and other things. Trump of course doesnt write legislation anyway- he counts on his leaders in Congress to do that based on his guidance. If they cant make legislation that make sense and does what it needs to, then Trump should just move on to the next thing. That way you put the ownership on who actually owns it. Trump wasnt elected to write laws, but to move the Republicans forward to legislate what the people who voted for him want.

There is no point of passing crappy legislation just to show that you are doing something. If Ryan cant control his own group, come to consensus among them and get the votes he needs, he needs to go. Then Obamacare can stay and die the death that awaits it and then something will HAVE to be done next year. Right now, its just a campaign promise that Trump is trying to keep like all the rest. He will have to listen to snarks claim he breaks all his promises!!! but whatever. He is a grown man and they will snark him even more if the law is crap.

Doing it tomorrow also eliminates anymore interference of more people like the Koch brothers, who have said they will pay campaign money to anyone who votes against it. Which if that is not illegal, it should be.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

So they need to take the time to get it right before making it a law.

They need more time do they? Of course because "nobody knew healthcare could be so complicated", right?

No worries I'm sure they'll eventually settle on some real awesome idea... that'll be terrific. You'll see. It'll be great. Everyone covered. Cheaper and better for all. As the so-called president promised. Eventually.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

If Ryan cant control his own group, come to consensus among them and get the votes he needs, he needs to go.

I agree, and by that logic, since Trump is the ultimate leader, if he can't control his own group, and get the votes he needs, he needs to go.

Republicans in Congress have had 7 years to prepare this

Yep, and they are showing that they were abject failures in calling for a repeal of Obamacare for seven years, voting on it 52 times, while never preparing anything to replace it with.

Doing it tomorrow also eliminates anymore interference of more people like the Koch brothers, who have said they will pay campaign money to anyone who votes against it. Which if that is not illegal, it should be.

Can't have people going against Dear Leader now, can we.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

@Strangerland: except you know, and everyone knows, this isnt Trump's group. Its like when we get hired as a Manager at a new job and have the old Manager's people still. He is the leader of it all but its not his guys. He is barely even a Republican sometimes. He doesnt even seem to really care what is in the bill, as he left that up to Paul Ryan and Congress. He only stepped in once they couldnt all agree.

@Reckless: Yes, this could turn into a bigger problem if these Republican Congress members start doing this on everything. That is why I mention the Koch brothers because they are also known to be against tax reform and infrastructure spending. So dont let this healthcare thing drag out long enough for the Koch brothers to start 'buying' people to block those too.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

except you know, and everyone knows, this isnt Trump's group. Its like when we get hired as a Manager at a new job and have the old Manager's people still. He is the leader of it all but its not his guys.

You are saying that if Ryan can't get consensus from his underlings, he should go. Ryan is Trump's underling. If he can't get consensus, he should go.

Sorry, you can't have it one way and not the other.

This just shows how much of a shambles the Republican party is. They have both houses, and they can't even agree on something they've been complaining about for seven years, and campaigned upon. And Trump, who supposedly had a plan that would cost less, insure more, and be terrific, just terrific, turns out to not have anything.

Trump is an abject failure. No one has failed greater than Trump.

And the people elected him were absolute fools, as they're slowly starting to see.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Actually, I guess it's not that slow, they're already seeing in less than three months.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Blacklabel: "There is no point of passing crappy legislation just to show that you are doing something."

So, then, how do you feel about Trump demanding the vote be held Friday morning, then? Is it going to improve drastically in a few hours?

"...and everyone knows, this isnt Trump's group."

It's the GOP -- Trump's group. The same group he threatened yesterday.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

So, then, how do you feel about Trump demanding the vote be held Friday morning, then? Is it going to improve drastically in a few hours?

No the vote is going to fail, Ryan and the Republican Congress should be held responsible for it, and Trump can move on. From what I heard he didnt even want to do healthcare first, but was told by Ryan that he had this taken care of and that it would be a quick win. Guess not.

As far as removing people, Trump is the boss and Ryan is the Manager. Trump is stuck with the Manager and team from the previous boss. So if his Manager cant get done what he was told to do and said that he could do, the Manager goes. The boss doesnt have to go, he hires his own Manager who make what he is directed to do happen and who can control the team. Now if the manager you have hired also fails, THEN it sticks to you as the boss and it you might get sent packing along with him.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Ryan and the Republican Congress should be held responsible for it

As should Trump, for not being able to control his own party. In some countries, that's considered a vote of no confidence, and would immediately trigger a new election.

From what I heard he didnt even want to do healthcare first, but was told by Ryan that he had this taken care of and that it would be a quick win.

But Trump is supposed to be the leader, how can anyone else tell him what to do first?

Face it, Trump is a failure. You're just trying to find loopholes to pretend that you weren't part of the group that elected the most useless president in history (in only two months).

5 ( +6 / -1 )

For god's sake just create a tax-funded healthcare system free to all who need it and be done with it. What's so hard about that? Works elsewhere.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

For god's sake just create a tax-funded healthcare system free to all who need it and be done with it. What's so hard about that?

I bolded the parts that are problems for Republicans. They're not big on taxes especially when they're used to provide services, however vital, for free.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Trump is the leader, but naturally he is advised by others. No one told him what to do, but he was looking to complete all of his campaign promises and was assured by Paul Ryan that this could be taken care of. So he gave Ryan a chance to prove himself and it appears he (Ryan) will fail.

But this is government. Trump cant fire Paul Ryan. Paul Ryan cant remove any of his team members. Each man has free will, so if their free will leads them to vote against what the leader of their group wants, not much he can do. They will be removed by the people who elected them next time, if their free will is against what their electors wanted.

If it were a company, the anti Trump manager (Ryan) could be replaced with someone who can lead their team better. As the boss (Trump) you arent responsible for building consensus with the team. You direct the Manager, who then builds consensus and ensures the direction gets completed. This is why the Management level exists and why they are the most commonly removed when the team fails.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Blacklabel: "No the vote is going to fail, Ryan and the Republican Congress should be held responsible for it"

So, it's stupid to force the vote tomorrow, is what you're saying. Trump is the one forcing the vote, so the failure will be his, and the stupidity of trying to ram it through falls on him as well. Stop trying to pass the buck when it's Trump calling the shots, and then try and claim it as some kind of victory when he loses it, suggesting you didn't want it in the first place. We're not buying the back-pedalling and alternative facts, my friend. No one is forcing a vote for Friday except Trump.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

For god's sake just create a tax-funded healthcare system free to all who need it and be done with it. What's so hard about that? Works elsewhere.

Agreed, buttt... GoP would call that socialism.

Nevermind that the GoP loves socialistic policies as long as they benefit the rich.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@smithinjapan: A failed internal vote on something which you as a group created reflects on your group. Not the leader of your group. Your leader is still waiting for you to give him what he asked for, so how can it reflect on him? The group was asked to do something, yet somehow they do not have the ability to do so. So as a leader do you let it stretch out for weeks and months? As it gets further and further away from what you directed in the first place? Or do you have the people who couldnt do it admit they they couldnt do it by failing their own internal voting on it?

its not like they are voting on what Trump wrote, cause didnt write it. He just said cheaper and better and cover everyone and they cant do it. They cant even find acceptable what their own group made. Oh and of course Trump will be blamed and snarked at, because thats the fun in it for most people. I would like to see you guys take a group of people, none of who you hired, most of whom dislike is mutual, and make them produce a product that is exactly what you want.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

The group was asked to do something, yet somehow they do not have the ability to do so. So as a leader do you let it stretch out for weeks and months? As it gets further and further away from what you directed in the first place? Or do you have the people who couldnt do it admit they they couldnt do it by failing their own internal voting on it?

Remember that phrase "The buck stops here," first used by Truman to indicate the ultimate responsibility in an adminstration for whatever happens, good or bad, lies with the president? No? Apparently, neither does Trump.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

of course Trump will be blamed and snarked at, because thats the fun in it for most people.

Trump will be blamed because in his campaign, he promised a system that was going to insure everyone, and be cheaper for all, without increasing taxes, and now when it comes time to live up to his promises, it's becoming apparent that he was just spitting out a bunch of words that sound good, without any actual consideration as to how it would be different.

You're blaming the rest of the party for not being able to meet his promises.

Not that they are faultless either. They're the dog that caught the car, and doesn't know what to do with it now.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Never forget Mr Trump promised a new law that would cover more people and at a lower cost.

Republicans are insane.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

This debacle will certainly put a stake through that myth of Trump's negotiation skills.

One complaint from a bill supporter regarding the Freedom Caucus basically went, "You can't sell a car to someone who doesn't want to buy a car." This is true. However, it is difficult to sell anything if you have no idea what you're selling, and Trump apparently does not. I'm not sure if he's simply uninterested or whether it's all above his head, but the cavalier way in which he caved on minimum benefits indicates the latter.

Second is that he seems to completely lack cognition of the difference between business and government. In the former, one might take a bad deal to grease the axles for better negotiation down the road, or one might simply walk away - the only affected are the negotiating parties. Here, tens of milions of Americans are affected. Always narcissistic, all he's able to think about is himself; this might work in the board room but has no place in the Oval Office.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

All 25 were white and male.

And all with advanced decrepitude.

Rich old white gits concerned only with making themselves richer. Trump's billionaire Swamp.

I just watched video of Paul Ryan back when Obamacare was introduced saying how a health bill should under no circumstances be rushed through and how undemocratic that would be. I hope this fails not only for common sense, but to finish off a brown-nosing hypocrite scumbag like Ryan.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Time's up - Trump says no more deal - the bill is what it is - there's no Plan B - today to vote yes or no - that's it

2 ( +2 / -0 )

"And I thought Trump wrote art of the deal. Hmmm"

Umm, Trump is not a dictator, it's up to the politicians in the Congress to pass legislation. Got it?

Oh my...

The legislative branch has failed the president

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7f6hgkpm-c

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

This would be a whole lot easier if the GOP didn't so often resort to hardline/scorched earth positions. What that does it take away options and flexibility, and now they've painted themselves into a corner and they can't get out. Anyone who tries to actually bridge the gap will be accused of selling out their principals and the knife gets plunged into their backs in the primaries and the process starts all over again.

Had they not promised the end of the world with Obamacare they could say they saw the opinion polls and decided it's better to modify it, but they can't. Now you have the "Freedom" Caucus saying they want to end coverage for preexisting conditions which is just f'ing insane. No one except them wants that and like always they will keep their hardline position because they will lose their job to the next idiot who spouts principals over evidence. They create this anger in their base and then automatically become slaves to it and now none of them can comprise, even with each other.

This really is an absolute mess. In order to keep their promise and "save America" they have to repeal Obamacare. And it looks like the only thing they can do is try to force through legislation that no one likes. Either way they lose. That's textbook dysfunction. As the minority party they could hide this but now that they control the government it's completely on their shoulders and the country is watching. They aren't leaders, they are different factions of cheap fear mongers.

Blacklabel: So now Trump is a complete and absolute failure simply because he got elected to make this group of Republican Congress leaders and misfits work?

He's a failure because he ran on a platform that he would create better care at a lower cost. That didn't happen and it seems pretty obvious now there wasn't a chance of that happening. What he will do next is exit the situation and throw all of the blame onto Congressional Republicans as a way to get his base to forget that he promised something even the GOP wasn't promising.

If it were a company, the anti Trump manager (Ryan) could be replaced with someone who can lead their team better. As the boss (Trump) you arent responsible for building consensus with the team. You direct the Manager, who then builds consensus and ensures the direction gets completed. This is why the Management level exists and why they are the most commonly removed when the team fails.

They are two completely separate branches of government. Ryan works for his constituents, not Trump. They will coordinate on things because Congress has to write the policy and the President signs it, but Ryan in no way works for Trump. Trump could easily veto and Ryan could easily override the veto. If Ryan is removed it's because the Senate removed him and that has nothing to do with Trump.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The British NHS was started in 1948 and should be great by now instead its collapsing and people are dying because of that. Like waiting hours for an ambulance to arrive and once at the hospital spending hours and even days in corridors because there are no beds. There are also immigrants or none British/EU patients getting free medical care, like child delivery, without paying a single penny into the care system.

It's not totally collapsing across the UK - here in Scotland for example there are challenges yes, but it's not collapsing. There needs to be an increase in National Insurance tax to help the underfunding in the NHS. As an employee of the NHS it's not my place to comment on immigrants and EU patients, except to say that EU members have the EHIC card (as do UK citizens) allowing them to have free or reduced medical bills if treatment is required. Likewise if I fell ill in Germany I would be given the treatment free or at a much reduced rate. EU citizens could the same about UK citizens... although we'll lose that benefit come Brexit.

My point still stands though, tax Americans so they can get a fair healthcare system for everyone.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The legislative branch has failed the president

Thanks for the Hannity perspective, Serrano! Someone has certainly failed someone, and there will be a whole lot of infighting and bloodletting over the next few weeks - but why don't we just simplify it? The GOP as a whole has failed itself, its supporters, and the nation as a whole.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

So 7 years to come up with a better option for health care and can't even get his own Republican Party to agree on the bill!??

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The GOP as a whole has failed itself, its supporters, and the nation as a whole.

Michael Moore's prediction is coming true. Electing Trump was the biggest F-you America, and now a few months later they're regretting it.

The Republican Party must be destroyed.

But in all seriousness, moderate republicans need to break away from the extremists, and create a party of sanity. The crazies have ruled for too long.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Now THAT is the very definition of "sour grapes". Well done.

Sour grapes? Hardly.

In any case, it is quite funny to see the Trump apologists on here saying, "Good! We didn't really want it to go to a vote!

Pretty much.

Now they can make it good! (even though you wanted it before it was 'good', in your own words). So, now, answer this: if you now think it's good to wait and "make the sausage" (as you've called it twice for some reason,

Because unlike Obama and his minions trying to sneak the bill onto the public with a 68,000 page ridiculous manual that NO one could read or want to, the GOP at least were and have been public about it, you are seeing Washington in action, something the Dems would rather do in the comfort of the bowels of the White House in secrecy. This bill is bad, I get it, but once it passes at least they can modify it bit by bit. Get this out of the way (even though I don't like it) and then they can move on to tax reform.

bass, referring to the bill as minced meat packed in poop tubes),

Pork casings, homie.

do you think it's stupid of Trump to demand the vote be held Friday morning as is?

No

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

bass: the GOP at least were and have been public about it, you are seeing Washington in action

Rand Paul protests outside room where House Republicans are hammering out Obamacare replacement

“I have been told that the House Obamacare bill is under lock and key, in a secure location, and not available for me or the public to view,” he tweeted. "In my state, in Kentucky, it’s illegal to do this,” he said, gesturing to the door he wasn’t allowed to walk through. “This is being presented as if it were a national secret, as if this were a plot to invade another country.” As more reporters craned their necks and pointed their recorders, Paul denounced the aspects of the GOP replacement bill that he’d learned from media sources and conservative House members.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/03/02/rand-paul-protests-outside-room-where-republicans-are-hammering-out-obamacare-replacement/

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The Art of the Deal failed

Trump pulled out his trump card by forcing his Republicans into account for a vote and even threatening them with an ultimatum (vote for it or face his wrath) - and he still couldn't get enough of his own Party to side with him

His deal-making failed on this. There is no Plan B (or is that just another deal-making tactic to force people to vote for Plan A or nothing?). As President, Trump has not closed any deals yet (his immigration is still in the court process) - this was his first big opportunity to close a deal

They had 7 years to the day to plan for this, and they still couldn't manage it. Even the Democrats got enough of the far-left, who think Obamacare doesn't go far enough, to vote for it (that deal-making did not fail)

0 ( +0 / -0 )

bass4funkMAR. 25, 2017 - 01:53AM JST

This bill is bad, I get it, but once it passes at least they can modify it bit by bit. Get this out of the way (even though I don't like it) and then they can move on to tax reform.

Right... and how's that all worked out, then?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Rand Paul protests outside room where House Republicans are hammering out Obamacare replacement

No, meaning, this entire process is happening before our eyes, with Obamacare, it just came, we didn't see the Democrats wheel and deal, it was just handed down and they voted on, big difference. Try again.

Right... and how's that all worked out, then?

Not good at all, so we move on to the next legislation. Obamacare stays and the premiums will continue to rise. The Republicans tried and failed, but whatever happens and if hypothetically, the Democrats were propelled to power, for a fact they won't or have the answer to drive premiums down, if they had a solution that would be a first EVER for the Democrat party to lower anything, that just wouldn't happen, but we shall see, if they can get tax reform done and work on jobs, they'll be ok.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

No meaning? heheh....uh, OK. (slowly backing away from the rambling guy on the street)

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I think Trump just learnt the hard way that 'closing a deal' in politics is more about the deal itself than cheesy sales/closing lines, even when selling to GOP lawmakers (who just went up a notch in my book, i.e now at 1).

1 ( +1 / -0 )

No, meaning, this entire process is happening before our eyes, with Obamacare, it just came, we didn't see the Democrats wheel and deal, it was just handed down and they voted on, big difference. Try again.

Ahh, you've been blinded by the right.

There most definitely was wheeling and dealing, and it wasn't just handed down. It went through a year of negotiations, including plenty of input from the right. That's unfortunately why it didn't end up with a single-payer plan, as the right staunchly protested that as being too 'socialist'.

They actually could have used that to their advantage had they been more organized. The one way Obamacare could be improved is through a single-payer plan. If they really wanted to do something for the people, they could have made Trumpcare single-payer. Then they actually would create something better for the people. The problem is that the now failed plan was going to hurt so many constituents that they couldn't actually do it without hurting themselves.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Ahh, you've been blinded by the right.

No, just annoyed with the left, but the right does get under my skin from time to time.

That's unfortunately why it didn't end up with a single-payer plan, as the right staunchly protested that as being too 'socialist'.

Yup!

They actually could have used that to their advantage had they been more organized. The one way Obamacare could be improved is through a single-payer plan.

I'm not buying that. I think that outcome would have been worse.

If they really wanted to do something for the people, they could have made Trumpcare single-payer. Then they actually would create something better for the people.

More of a huge out of control entitlement for over 320 million people, it would never work.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Ahh, you've been blinded by the right.

No, just annoyed with the left

So being annoyed with the left has caused you to claim the falsehood that with Obamacare, it just came, we didn't see the Democrats wheel and deal, it was just handed down and they voted on?

That's weird that you'd start spreading fake news out of annoyance with the other party. Why discredit yourself due to your annoyance?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

So being annoyed with the left has caused you to claim the falsehood that with Obamacare, it just came, we didn't see the Democrats wheel and deal, it was just handed down and they voted on?

It was. We never saw it play out, but that's not the point, it was a breath of fresh air to see congress work, even if the results at times can be disastrous.

That's weird that you'd start spreading fake news out of annoyance with the other party.

Sorry, I don't do that. Oh, and I'm annoyed with both parties, equally.

Why discredit yourself due to your annoyance?

I think the people that discredit themselves have been the Dems, but we see that through the political landscape. LOL

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

It was. We never saw it play out, but that's not the point, it was a breath of fresh air to see congress work, even if the results at times can be disastrous.

Care to translate that into English for those of us who are not yet fluent in gibberish?

Sorry, I don't do that

Except that you did, right here:

with Obamacare, it just came, we didn't see the Democrats wheel and deal, it was just handed down and they voted on?

Fake news wrapped in gibberish.

I think the people that discredit themselves have been the Dems

You spread fake news, then try to blame someone else for it. I see you're a True Trumpet.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

bass4funkMAR. 25, 2017 - 11:11AM JST

So being annoyed with the left has caused you to claim the falsehood that with Obamacare, it just came, we didn't see the Democrats wheel and deal, it was just handed down and they voted on?

We didn't see any... "wheeling and dealing", but it does look as if Obama and the Democrats kind of got what they wanted. How's the wheeling and dealing worked out for the Republicans? Seven years they've had to work out a better alternative, just look at the results.

Oh, and I'm annoyed with both parties, equally.

Yet you don't ever put quite as much time and effort into whining about Republicans as you do about Democrats.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

"The GOP as a whole has failed itself, its supporters, and the nation as a whole."

You mean the Democrats.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

SerranoMAR. 25, 2017 - 02:00PM JST

"The GOP as a whole has failed itself, its supporters, and the nation as a whole."

You mean the Democrats.

So which bill did the Democrats just totally fail to get passed?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

How's the wheeling and dealing worked out for the Republicans?

Not to well, I admit that, so now on to tax reform and hit healthcare at a later date. They tried, at least they tried.

Seven years they've had to work out a better alternative, just look at the results.

Oh, I agree.

So which bill did the Democrats just totally fail to get passed?

I'm sorry, I meant Obamacare, that monstrosity that will still be causing pain to millions of people and by the way, the Democrats can laugh all they want, but let me give a dark scenario, if for some miracle reason they were to get in power, in some way, you don't think the GOP would retaliate? What comes around goes around, so the Dems should be very careful what they wish for. For me, I care about the American people, both parties with their tit for tat need to chill, because it will only get worse.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

What comes around goes around, so the Dems should be very careful what they wish for.

Heh, after eight years of outright obstructionism, the Republicans are learning that lesson first hand.

They are a party in absolute disarray who can't even get legislation passed that they pushed for for eight years, even when they own both houses. To use The Great Orange Negotiator's words "they're a disaster".

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

bass4funkMAR. 26, 2017 - 08:08AM JST

"So which bill did the Democrats just totally fail to get passed?"

I'm sorry, I meant Obamacare,

Um, I wasn't even replying to one of your comments.

Simon FostonMAR. 25, 2017 - 11:53PM JST SerranoMAR. 25, 2017 - 02:00PM JST

"The GOP as a whole has failed itself, its supporters, and the nation as a whole."

You mean the Democrats.

So which bill did the Democrats just totally fail to get passed?

Or are you Serrano as well? But just to look at what you said for a moment:

"the Democrats can laugh all they want,bu let me give a dark scenario, if for some miracle reason they were to get in power, in some way, you don't think the GOP would retaliate?"

Well, if there is ever a 360 degree reversal of the current situation and the Democrats somehow get the kind of power the Republicans have at the moment, all the Republicans will be able to do is laugh at their screw-ups. Assuming they do manage to screw anything up quite as badly as Trump, Ryan and the GOP in Congress just have. Right now, I think Democrats laughing at them should be way down on the list of the GOP's problems, don't you?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

"the Democrats can laugh all they want,bu let me give a dark scenario, if for some miracle reason they were to get in power, in some way, you don't think the GOP would retaliate?"

You for some reason think that if the tables were reversed right now, that the Republicans wouldn't be doing exactly what the Democrats are.

You're kidding yourself.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

You are the ultimate unifier Strangerland. You unify most of us with intelligence, in saying to ourselves how you post way too much when your mommy let's you back on the Internet. Oh wait, you are running a company and don't have time to troll these boards... my bad.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Well, if there is ever a 360 degree reversal of the current situation and the Democrats somehow get the kind of power the Republicans have at the moment, all the Republicans will be able to do is laugh at their screw-ups.

They're still laughing and shaking their heads about the Dems screw ups.

Assuming they do manage to screw anything up quite as badly as Trump,

Dems have never been known to be organized on anything.....wait, except for the environment, my bad and they make a great vegan salad as well.

Ryan and the GOP in Congress just have. Right now, I think Democrats laughing at them should be way down on the list of the GOP's problems, don't you?

Yeah, I mean, ideology before the American people, wouldn't expect more or even less from Dems.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

bass4funkMAR. 26, 2017 - 08:08AM JST

For me, I care about the American people, both parties with their tit for tat need to chill, because it will only get worse.

A very commendable sentiment. Oh, but what's this?

bass4funkMAR. 26, 2017 - 03:31PM JST

They're still laughing and shaking their heads about the Dems screw ups.

Dems have never been known to be organized on anything.....wait, except for the environment, my bad and they make a great vegan salad as well.

Looks like someone else needs to drop the tit for tat stuff. But you can't, can you?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Looks like someone else needs to drop the tit for tat stuff. But you can't, can you?

Well, usually the GOP are driving blindly in the dark, the Dems on the other hand put ideology always first. See California. The GOP congress fiscal conservatives and the moderates were in typical fashion how to provide adequate healthcare without piling on more deficit, something as we have seen over the last 8 years the Dems cared nothing about. But admittingly, the GOP had more than enough time to repeal this monstrosity that we all know as Obamacare and they failed, to Sami Ing about, not happy, it's the American people that suffer ultimately on this, but as of now, the president needs to press on and do some of the other big legislation and go back to healthcare later. Wake up earlier, nice try.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Bass, why did the GOP fail to pass the legislation?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Super, the GOP failed to pass the legislation because it was Obamacare lite, plus they couldn't get the Democrats to cooperate in drafting a better bill.

Why did the Democrats pass the disaster known as Obamacare?

Oh my...

Judge Jeanine: Paul Ryan needs to step down as House speaker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4hm946HDrA

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

why did the GOP fail to pass the legislation?

How about you telling me why you think the reason is?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Why did the Democrats pass the disaster known as Obamacare?

Obamacare was originally a Republican idea.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The republicans are fundamentally unable to govern. They are a failure party. They can win election by spending vast sums of Koch money and by voter suppression but when they are in power they are a 100% disaster. Anyone who votes republican votes for disaster. Trump is just the latest example. The pattern is the same, disaster under the GOP, recovery under the Democrats. Reagan, Clinton, Bush, Obama. The next President will have to clean up again after Trump and his party wrecks the government, the economy and the environment.

All of you that voted against Hillary, you happy now? We liberals, always right on these matters, warned you of what a failure Trump would be. My only surprise is how quickly he is failing, he is failing faster than the previous failed Presidencies of the Bush's and the huge failure Reagan. Now the republicans are attacking each other. Classic failure tactics. Just amazing. There is a saying for this, but JT will not allow me to put it here. It starts with cluster.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

How about you telling me why you think the reason is?

Trump is a poor leader. That's why. Obama passing Obamacare and Trump passing nothing shows that Obama is a better leader.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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