Obamacare 'stupidity'? New energy for repeal push

I find it incredible how some American politicians campaign on reducing or totally removing the health coverage for millions of their fellow citizens. It is like a puritanical obsession with some on the far right to see this legislation repealed. I just can't imagine the same vitriol and hatred against such legislation occurring in countries like France, Germany or other more equitable societies. I'm also of the mind that if the exact same legislation had been passed by GWB it would be hailed as one of the greatest achievements of any US President.

SimondBNov. 15, 2014 - 07:27AM JST I find it incredible how some American politicians campaign on reducing or totally removing the health coverage for millions of their fellow citizens.

These politicians can ask for more, but in reality they are looking for citizens to pay more of their share, which means higher deductable health insurance. If you compare citizens between 50-64 (before medicare), most are paying 5 to 10 times more than citizens that are on retirement medicare. Goverment knows it's not sustainable.

Big gift for the GOP: now they can stop pretending that they care about the "replace" part of "repeal and replace."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m54CqiMGe-k&list=UUukNcfwOgI4F4T-H5rn6P3Q

First 3 on the list. He received almost $400,000 for his deception.

An economist calling the voters stupid? There is the pot calling the kettle black. Also these are the same voters that returned W to the white house after an illegal war.

I find it incredible how some American politicians campaign on reducing or totally removing the health coverage for millions of their fellow citizens.

What kind of mindset motivates such a comment? What is more incredible is that a American political party would seek to legislate through lies and deception because that is the only way they can win. Obama's entire presidency mirrors this approach. Obamacare is just one of many examples of this tendency by the American Left. If people disagree about man made global warming because all the scientists climate models have been wrong, then call them stupid to shut them up. They do not accept any alternative worldview as being valid or legitimate. Progressives assume that everyone that disagrees with them are stupid. Gruber's comments about the public to a like minded audience of elitist academics displays this mindset perfectly. The denigration of the common citizen elicits only laughter from these people. They live and work in a protective bubble separate from the lives of the average person. They cannot lose their tenured jobs and the associated benefits - health care included. They forget that their salaries are paid by people in the private sector or through deficit spending.

The Obama administration has lied to the public. The voters in '08' had "hope and change" in mind. The voters in '12'......still baffles me. Maybe its the voters Gruber was talking about. Gruber was imbedded in the passing of this fiasco of a national healthcare law with the administration.

To say Republicans do not care about about the uninsured is absurd. This is USA here, we are of the most generous and concerned citizens in the world. Just research the statistics. Most adoptions, most philanthropy, ect. To say we don't care about the uninsured is false. Do we like to reward laziness is maybe another story. Less fortunate is a separate category.

What is more incredible is that a American political party would seek to legislate through lies and deception because that is the only way they can win.

LOL... I was going to say the exact same thing to describe the GOP! Americans have a short attention span and watch too much cable TV news. The U.S. is governed on rhetoric and propaganda while painting a picture that we're better than the governments that came before us and did the exact same things.

Progressives assume that everyone that disagrees with them are stupid.

Thanks for lumping all of us progressives together! I could make similar generalizations about conservatives. My problem is when people exert their opinions as fact and then belittle others for thinking their opinion is misguided and, yes, in some cases stupid. The truth is that 90% of Americans share the same opinion on most issues (including national health care), but the 1% of extremist viewpoints dominate the media and therefore have a greater impact on the electorate than reality does.

The truth is that 90% of Americans share the same opinion on most issues (including national health care)

, I would agree with you on this.

but the 1% of extremist viewpoints dominate the media and therefore have a greater impact on the electorate than reality does. This is completely off base. The mass media is in the corner of Obama and Obamacare. Until recently perhaps.

Harry Reid called this guy the smartest economist in the world. Gruber got paid over $1 million from ACA and the states he consulted. He is arrogant enough to reveal the deception's agenda in deceiving the CBO, Congress , and American people whom he called stupid. It is the mentality of Obama's elitist circle who see themselves above the rest. They use deception policy and the Dems. lawmakers as the agents of stupidity in passing ACA without one republican voted for. Healthcare is one of big expenditure in any governments, except in most dictatorship nations. It is not about having health insurance, it is about quality, affordability, and how to pay for it. So far, ACA has shown mostly the opposite that leading into a single payer under total government control. Gruber just reflects the real agenda of Obama who uses deception in its policy. Many liberals start to worry about the unmask of "hypocrite empathy or compassion" of their agendas ( The Dems. take minority votes for granted since these groups make no progress under their controls, actually getting worse). How many more lies and blood shed across the globe before they cease their narcissistic's view of self egoistic.

The U.S. is governed on rhetoric and propaganda

Jonathan Gruber has made that perfectly clear for all of those 'stupid' citizens that he sought to exploit for political gain. The ends justify the means. Gruber and the Obama Administration purposely misled the public on the particulars of the "Affordable Care Act" in order to pull the wool over the publics eyes. And it worked. 'You can keep your doctor', 'You can keep your current insurance', 'the cost of insurance will go down by $2,500' - all purposeful deception in order to misinform the public - who he then calls 'stupid'.

Thanks for lumping all of us progressives together!

Because Progressives all insist on using government to control other peoples lives. No other path is allowed - you must participate in the government programs that Progressives can get passed with 51% of the vote or be penalized. Well, the other 49% don't necessarily want what Progressives insist is in their best interests - never considering that other people have different ideas of what is in their own best interests. Obamacare is just the latest example. No choice to opt out of the government mandate. Everyone must participate or they are fined by the state. You may consider that free choice but I do not. Republicans are not completely innocent of this either but at least the conservatives among them believe otherwise. The government should at least allow people to opt out of social programs that the those in the minority do not support. Progressive social solutions never seem to solve the problems they are formulated to address. War on poverty? There are roughly the same percentage of people in poverty in America today as there was 50 years ago. Now the government is just very deeply in debt.

My problem is when people exert their opinions as fact and then belittle others for thinking their opinion is misguided and, yes, in some cases stupid.

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as fact anymore - every "fact" is subject to spin for political advantage. Obama is still insisting that the penalty for ignoring the Obamacare mandate is not a tax!

The truth is that 90% of Americans share the same opinion on most issues (including national health care)

That is clearly false. The American public is deeply divided on Obamacare with most of those with an opinion opposing it. Think also of illegal immigration, abortion, race, etc. America is a highly polarized nation - never more so than since Obama's election as president.

Gruber and the Obama Administration purposely misled the public on the particulars of the "Affordable Care Act" in order to pull the wool over the publics eyes.

Anyone paying attention was not surprised in the least. Obama ran with the ACA as a main plank. Broad outlines of the program (ironically initially drawn up by conservatives) were not only clear but necessary as the only way to make the system work. Those put off by the sausage-making that is legislating would be equally put off by most any law.

If you don't like the ACA, work to elect a president who shares your views. That's how American society functions.

Sorry Wolfpack. You clearly have an opinion and I'm not in the business of trying to change it. I choose to disagree with you and don't need to call you stupid to do that. Polls show the majority of Americans DO agree on most issues; they disagree with how changes should be implemented. Statistics show 80% of Americans are unaffected by "Obamacare" but only 54% of those polled say they are. I suppose being saturated with extremist viewpoints in the media qualifies as "affected."

America is a highly polarized nation - never more so than since Obama's election as president.

I would argue that started with the election of G.W. Bush.

Polls show the majority of Americans DO agree on most issues; they disagree with how changes should be implemented. Statistics show 80% of Americans are unaffected by "Obamacare" but only 54% of those polled say they are. I suppose being saturated with extremist viewpoints in the media qualifies as "affected."

It is not fully implemented. Quite simple.

It started a mess and will end the same. Yes, it will end. Once it is fully implemented, if it ever goes that far, it will be stressing to many middle class folks. The Cadillac tax is not what the economy can sustain.

MarkG - An October 2013 study of media coverage related to "Obamacare" found 202 negative stories vs 26 positive stories across all major broadcast media (World News with Diane Sawyer, Evening News (CBS), Nightly News with Brian Williams, Good Morning America, This Morning, Today, Meet the Press, This Week, Fox News Sunday, and Face the Nation). That's 89% negative coverage going back to a year ago. Hardly new.

I am glad that I am living here in Japan where the level of self-righteousness and vitriol is kept to a minimum. The foundation of health-care, anywhere in the world, is based upon the healthy paying out more than they receive in benefits. I pay a lot of $$ into the health care system in Japan and receive very little in return. I did the same while living in the USA. And I would hope that when I am old and decrepit my premiums will go down with the assistance of the government and the general population. This is how all types of insurance work, not just health insurance. This isn't hard to understand, is it? The 'stupidity of the American voter'.....he's right on point with that.

After Clinton and his success in getting the economy roaring, deficit paid down and a surplus, the voters voted in GW for a "change" A change is surely what they got.. You saw a meltdown on many fronts. I say just leave things alone. Economy is doing better in the U.S. I understand the concern with Isis and border secuirty etc, but to just flush all the success of what Obama has done like was done as was done with Clintons accomplishments is foolish. When he came into office, things were in a serious mess. Should vote in Hilary next time, with Bill as a cabinet or sec of something, or if you want a Repub then make it McCain if he runs.

saying that “the stupidity of the American voter” helped Democrats pass the complex legislation,

If anything, it says more about those who were in the House and Senate and the President more than the people. Afterall, they were the ones who voted it into law and signed the bill. But to a point, those who were in office at the time thouth that they had a mandate from the people wanting health care changes. I believe most Americans do, even I do and I am more right leaning than left. But I said at the time why not start off small and make incremental changes that would be more beneficial to the majority than trying to start off something new. America had processes in place to provide health care to those who truly needed it. But those processes needed to be fixed (and still do) and the focus of effort should have been on reforming those, so that they would be able to rach more people and truly be more affordable.

This is how all types of insurance work, not just health insurance. This isn't hard to understand, is it? The 'stupidity of the American voter'.....he's right on point with that.

But the big insurance companies needed to get paid off. And they are not going to be on the hook in the end. Remember the housing crisis back in 2008? Many of those homes that went into default the borrowers were required to purchase mortage insurance in the event they couldn't pay. Where did that money go? Lenders/banks should have been able to recoup their losses based on having all those who could make payments and the previous payments on their insurance cover the costs of those in default. But they didn't, they did other things with the money. Sad to say, but we will probably see something like this with the health care industry before too long.

I did the same while living in the USA. And I would hope that when I am old and decrepit my premiums will go down with the assistance of the government and the general population.

Why should I take care of you in your old age? What about the concept of making insurance affordable so that even when you get old, you will be able to pay for it yourself and not rely on the government and other people's money to take care of yourself. That should be the goal of the population, not just wanting for their government handout.

The Interstate Highway Bill signed by Eisenhower back in the 1950's was only 12 pages long. From that law, we got the US highway system and it was at the time and still is an ideal way for providing a method of moving cars and vehicles along with a uniformed standard that has proven to be one of the greatest assests the US has to move goods from one state to another.

So why do we need a 1200 page bill to pass as Obamacare? Just more smoke and mirrors by our so called elected leaders. But it doesn't stop there, just take a look at some of the local "bond measures" and other propositions that get put on ballots that may sound good, but if you read the fine print you find out that they do something else completely unrelated. Not so much that the American voters are dumb, but the politicans are crooks.

Why should I take care of you in your old age? What about the concept of making insurance affordable so that even when you get old, you will be able to pay for it yourself and not rely on the government and other people's money to take care of yourself.

But that's exactly what the ACA does! It prohibits insurance companies from discrimination based on preexisting conditions or age. You no longer have to worry about being dropped by your insurer the minute you get sick or frail.

No worries. Boehner should have the Republican plan rolled out any day now. He keeps telling his smart voters that.

Ah yes, America, of pitforks and mobs. It's amazing they are even a country

With private insurance, if your family member suddenly gets a long term illness or has a serious accident with long term health consequences, or if a baby is born with complicated health problems, what happens? If you work for a company with good health insurance, you might be OK. But what if you lose your job, or what if you are self employed? You are likely to find yourself faced with VERY high insurance premiums, or insurance with VERY limited liability. You might take out a second mortgage and so on until everything is gone. And given the unbridled costs of health care, that won't take long.

Of course only a small fraction of the population will have this bad luck, but on the other hand a small fraction of the population will -certainly- have this bad luck. It seems some people believe it couldn't happen to them, and that people who fall into the healthcare abyss have only themselves to blame.

But that's not the end yet. Once the unfortunates reach rock bottom, they will be eligible for Medicare, after which medical costs will be covered by taxes. So instead of a health care system (AHA) where people pay insurance costs to cover the worst cases they could face, with private insurance they pay cheap insurance costs to cover only the most common case, i.e., general good health with a few minor problems, and then if the worst case happens they ultimately rely on government to bail them out.

It seems ironic for Republicans to present AHA as a dupe, when it is the entrepreneurial self employed and small business person who are going to have the most to lose when things go wrong, not someone safely working in a big company buffered by the companies group insurance policy. Not to mention, if parents find out their baby has a birth defect (not that it is always possible to know), without AHA they will certainly bear a very hard financial burden - or they could consider abortion, if their state permits it, which some strongly Republican states do not.

Finally, it is disappointing to see outrageous rising health costs left out of the debate. A visit to the emergency room will cost $1000 minimum, even for just 5 minutes of triage and 5 minutes of the doctors time. A medical emergency can rack up $100,000 in 4 days. These are standard costs which are as common no where else in the world but the USA. The institutions are run by financial wizards who leverage every opportunity to squeeze cash out of people and/or their insurance companies who are not in a position to do anything about it, who don't have the right to ask for an estimate or upper limit on what a procedure might cost - certainly not a fair business deal.

The Gruber video is quite impressive. Although the university hosting the event removed it from their website (I wonder why...), it can be found on Youtube. I hope the Obamacare defenders watch it before posting more knee-jerk defense Obamacare defense comments here.

Do you really defend a program the nature of which was purposely hiddenn from the voters who were, as the Obamacare architects brag, too stupid to understand the deception?

If Obamacare is so wonderful, why does it need this trickery?

Robert Haden:

Sorry Wolfpack. You clearly have an opinion and I'm not in the business of trying to change it.

Actually I am fine with debating any issue and even listening to any opinion that tries to change mine. I understand that supporters of Obamacare have a desire to help people. The problem is the lack of choice and the use coercion to force people to participate in a system that they believe does not work for them. You should not be surprised that there is very strong opposition. If you and like minded people want Obamacare or a single payer like system then get together and make it happen. If the idea is superior to others than the majority of the people will join as well. But using the police power of the IRS and the federal government in general to coerce compliance to a program that could very well turn out to fail for many people is unconscionable.

Polls show the majority of Americans DO agree on most issues; they disagree with how changes should be implemented.

That's like saying everyone agrees that there should be health care available to everyone. OK, there is agreement on that. But how this is done is not an inconsequential matter. It is the cause of polarization and disunity.

I would argue that started with the election of G.W. Bush.

Well it obviously started long before W. It's just worse now than ever before. I believe it is because of Obama's reliance on government coercion and the removal of choice in favor of a cold bureaucracy whose goals are at odds with the needs of individuals.

Robert Haden:

Sorry Wolfpack. You clearly have an opinion and I'm not in the business of trying to change it.

Actually I am fine with debating any issue and even listening to any opinion that tries to change mine. I understand that supporters of Obamacare have a desire to help people. The problem is the lack of choice and the use coercion to force people to participate in a system that they believe does not work for them. You should not be surprised that there is very strong opposition. If you and like minded people want Obamacare or a single payer like system then get together and make it happen. If the idea is superior to others than the majority of the people will join as well. But using the police power of the IRS and the federal government in general to coerce compliance to a program that could very well turn out to fail for many people is unconscionable.

Polls show the majority of Americans DO agree on most issues; they disagree with how changes should be implemented.

That's like saying everyone agrees that there should be health care available to everyone. OK, there is agreement on that. But how this is done is not an inconsequential matter. It is the cause of polarization and disunity.

I would argue that started with the election of G.W. Bush.

Well it obviously started long before W. It's just worse now than ever before. I believe it is because of Obama's reliance on government coercion and the removal of choice in favor of a cold bureaucracy whose goals are at odds with the needs of individuals.

Do Americans living abroad have to pay for Obamacare?

Do Americans living abroad have to pay for Obamacare?

http://www.irs.gov/uac/Questions-and-Answers-on-the-Individual-Shared-Responsibility-Provision

-->see #12

The U.S.A. spends more money on its military than the total of the next nine countries combined, yet they quibble and fight about health insurance that should be a basic human right.

Doesn't make sense to me.

Now Obama Government does not have power and power is hands of Republican. However, Republican should let Obamacare continue otherwise no one know Obamacare was successful or not. The basic problem in US is ridiculous insurance payout for medical malpractice. If US run health sector like other countries and then everyone can go to Hospital and get treatment. The Government should try limit on compensation payout and the cost of treatment will come down. In Australia, we never heard of hundred millions dollars compensation payout but in US, there's no shortage of over hundred millions compensation payout for medical malpractice's victim. Insurance fee is ridiculous expensive for doctor and hospital. Their ridiculous compensation payout culture is killing them.

So why do we need a 1200 page bill to pass as Obamacare? Just more smoke and mirrors by our so called elected leaders. But it doesn't stop there, just take a look at some of the local "bond measures" and other propositions that get put on ballots that may sound good, but if you read the fine print you find out that they do something else completely unrelated. Not so much that the American voters are dumb, but the politicans are crooks.

Gruber is right that the average American voter is stupid, but NOT for the reasons one might think. The public school systems are controlled by mostly far left progressives that constantly push a one-sided liberal agenda where you have students that get their information from the Internet that is NOT always scrutinized or fact checked or from Stewart or Colbert (comedians) and the result is when the people go to the polls and don't prop educate themselves on the serious issues, these kids just vote on emotion or straight ideology without knowing the facts and the. We end up with someone like Obama. Instead of getting mad at Obama the people are angry at the Democratics and the people decided to vote them out and elect the Republicans and the voters did this with the election of Obama and the Dems in 2008 controlling all 3 branches, which was a disaster, giving the Republicans the House back in 2010. If the people are not happy with the direction the way the US is going, stop re electing the same crappy politicians over and over again.

If our school system wasn't as broken as it is and the teachers would do their jobs properly and teach these kids about politics both conservatism and liberalism in a very non-partisan way, the people can make better smarter and better informed decisions that don't have severe political repercussions and as long as our school system stays broken, history will repeat itself.

The U.S.A. spends more money on its military than the total of the next nine countries combined, yet they quibble and fight about health insurance that should be a basic human right.

We should have a strong military. We quibble about health insurance because we have an admin. That purposely lied to its citizens in order to ram a faulty and imperfect healthcare system through that costs way too much for most people and that is more of a financial liability than anything else. Also it's not a right. Obtaining a drivers license or having a roof over your head isn't a right either. We didn't have healthcare 400 years ago and people were just fine. Do I think everyone should have healthcare, sure. Should the tax payer cover the costs, absolutely NOT.

Doesn't make sense to me.

Of course not.

The main takeaway from Gruber's repeated pronouncements on the stupidly of his fellow citizens is that he is describing those people that are most susceptible to the ideology of the Left. His deceptions were aimed at the far Left who wanted on socialist health care and the those that lean Left. Those he and Obama needed to sway were represented by the likes of former Senators Hagan, Udall, Begich, and Pryor and soon to be former Senator Landrieu.

If you are a Progressive, Gruber was talking about you. He knew he could never talk conservatives into supporting Obamacare and he didn't have to given the Democrats large majorities in Congress.. He didn't think he could get the votes of the Left fringe and Democrats representing conservative leaning states without deception. The Obama Administration played you for the fool. Now Republicans control 13 to 14 more seats in the Senate than when Obama was elected and they have more seats in the House than they have had in 80 years. Given the chances of Obamacare being carved to pieces by the Supreme Court next Summer the legacy of Obama will be near complete failure and eight wasted years for the American people. Pretty sad.