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Palestinian leader to ask for full U.N. membership

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Although the future state Abbas envisions would include Gaza, in practice, the territory is ruled by Hamas militants who call for Israel’s destruction and seized the territory from Abbas loyalists in a violent 2007 takeover. Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum derided Abbas’ speech as a “tactic to return to negotiations with the government of the Zionist occupation” that was undertaken without consulting with other Palestinian factions.

I'm wondering who will protest the newly formed Palestinian nation first...Hamas or Israel?

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If there would have been a Palestinian partner there would have been peace long time ago. Unfortunately most Palestinians and most Arab countries do not recognize Israel right to exists. Unfortunately there is not even one brave Arab leader who can say to his people - accept a compromise with Israel. Forget about the "right of return" and other unrealistic dreams. Take the west bank (as Israel already offered) and live in Peace. Unfortunately they are motivated by religious fanatics who could not care less about their own people not to mention the Palestinians. They are financed and armed by Iran, who has interest to continue the conflict regardless of the suffering it creates to the Palestinians. Abbas is right to denounce violence. Lets see if he is also brave to suggest realistic terms.

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I think you will find that even Hamas acknowledges it is impossible to get rid of the Zionist occupation of Palestine. The 1967 borders is an unbelievable compromise.

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I think you will find that even Hamas acknowledges it is impossible to get rid of the Zionist occupation of Palestine

Nah, what we will find is that Hamas still wants to destroy Israel.

The 1967 borders is an unbelievable compromise.

By whom? Hamas has never agreed to such a compromise for a lasting and true peace. You know that.

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Ben Jackinoff, what does your post really have to do with this? If the Palestinians wind up isolated like North Korea for their beliefs, so be it. Its neither here nor there. They have a right to an independent state either way.

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Actually I think that if Palestine becomes a democratic free nation, Hamas will recognise Israel. Once Palestine is free, they can prosecute Israel for it's war crimes and human rights violations, and the natsoc Zionists will give way to a new and open Jewish generation who love peace. Trade will benefit both countries. Peace will reign. Or, Israel can carry on like the Afrikans did...

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What does my post about Palestinians have to do with a discussion of Palestinians? If you have to ask, you will not understand the answer. Hamas is not asking for a seat at the UN, Fatah is. Fatah and the rest of the world seems to wish to ignore Hamas. I think it is foolish at best and very dangerous at worse. Now, if I could only figure out what your post had to do with...

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Hamas will recognise Israel

Based on what exactly, sw? Warm fuzzy feelings? Hamas have never indicated anything of the sort. BTW, Hamas certainly has their fair share of war crimes and human right violations, as does Fatah. You all in favor of prosecutions against them as well? BTW, you really do love harping on Jew this and Jew that. I get the feeling that is your main focus is these kinds of discussions. Old habits die hard I guess.

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I think your political observations would be take more seriously if your user tag wasn't "Been jacking off"

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Apparently Ben, you expect Hamas to recognize Israel's right to exist while Israel denies Palestine's right to exist. Good luck with that buddy.

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Don't need luck. Facts are good enough for me. Israel recognizes Palestine's right to exist. Hamas does not and says they never will recognize Israel. Deal with that.

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I think your political observations

I hardly doubt any name would make the least difference. Speaking of which, had a look in the mirror?

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Israel recognizes Palestine's right to exist.

Hello? Palestine declared independence in 1988. Many nations recognize this. Israel does not. Plus Israel traded a land occupation for a air, land and sea border occupation. Hence, Israel refuses Palestine's right to exist.

Hamas does not and says they never will recognize Israel.

So? They are not the only power in Palestine and since Israel has been denying Palestine's right to exist long before Hamas had any power, its to be expected.

If right to exist were such an issue, then Israel should have recognized Palestine back when it declared independence under Fatah. Can't turn back the clock, so Israel is just going to have to endure.

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Hamas will recognise Israel???

Hamas spokesman Salah Bardawil’s has said the bid could be dangerous as it may force an official recognition of the state of Israel.

Hamas officials have repeatedly refused to recognise Israel, calling for the destruction of the Jewish state on numerous occasions. In July we had Hamas foreign minister Mahmoud Al-Zahar proclaim that ‘Palestine means Palestine in its entirety, and Israel cannot exist in our midst’.

In June he stated that as a ‘matter of principle’ Hamas will never relinquish ‘a single inch of the Palestinian land’.

Following the announcement of the Fatah-Hamas unity deal in May, a Hamas cleric claimed that: ‘In just a few years, all the Zionists and the settlers will realize that their arrival in Palestine was for the purpose of the great massacre, by means of which Allah wants to relieve humanity of their evil.’

Hamas recognition of Israel is obviously just round the corner.

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Palestinians do have a right for their own state. No one is arguing against it. Also in Israel and also officially by the Israel state who recognized Palestinian right for a state.

The opposite does not hold. Many Arab countries and most Arab leaders (including many Palestinian leaders) still did not recognize Israel right to exist. They are still declaring that they will destroy Israel (BTW - including the Fatah charter back in 1988...) Under such conditions Israel must defend it self.

who suffers? The Palestinians and Israelis. Who benefits? the Arab leaders who could divert the anger of the crowds against Israel and not against their own un-successful governments. Who falls for this "trick"? Many in the world...

Once Arab leaders will truly accept Israel there will be peace.

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It just seems that the militants, who want to destroy Israel at all costs, have a vested interested in keeping the conflict ongoing. Negotiating a peace process means an end to their goal of destroying Israel which is why any lull in violence is usually shattered with rocket attacks. The last thing they want is a peace process so they actively work against it.

The more they attack the more Israel has to respond and the more the world sees a rich, powerful nation going up against weaker people and the militants know this. They are just biding their time and keeping the war going until they can eventually get powerful enough weapons from Iran to do some serious damage to Israel. And with their "look how badly we are mistreated (after we fire rockets) they want to keep the image that Israel is actually the aggressor. When they reach the point where Iran gives them a powerful enough weapon they can use it and cash in on the worlds sympathy for them even though they do the attacking. So in the end they need to fool the world into thinking Israel is the aggressor so when they do pull off a major attack they can possibly get away with it since their endless practice of forcing Israel to respond will make the world more willing to go along with the fact that Israel deserves it.

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What's equally disturbing is that the Palestinians need the US to make a peace deal possible, but they do things like this to slap the US in the face No doubt they will follow up their statehood with a phone call to the US asking what we can do to help them.

It's an utterly crazy situation.

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Hello? Palestine declared independence in 1988.

Yeah, hello? They did not declare peace with Israel then, did they? So, why expect Israel to recognize them then. Anyway, enough bogus history. Israel recognizes Fatah as the leaders of Palestine.

Plus Israel traded a land occupation for a air, land and sea border occupation.

What is it? Three or four years that you peddle the same stuff? Israel disengaged from Gaza and got rockets. You want cheer that on? Go for it. I think the rockets made things worse and so have Hamas.

Hence, Israel refuses Palestine's right to exist.

Nope. It is Hamas that refuses to negotiate for peace. Hence, no peace. However, don't let that stop you from cheering Hamas on.

They are not the only power in Palestine

Actually, they are the only elected power as of now.

since Israel has been denying Palestine's right to exist long before Hamas had any power, its to be expected.

Still wrong, as Israel has been negotiating with Palestinians for a very long time and has recognized Palestinian's rights to exist. Just because there is no peace deal is not because Israel does not want one. However, we know for a fact Hamas does not want one. You don't have a problem with this? Fine. Don't expect others to share your repetitious eschewed views of things.

then Israel should have recognized Palestine back when it declared independence under Fatah.

That years long continuous problem of not reading. Fatah was at war with Israel in 1988. You want to continue to ignore facts like this? Go for it. Just don't expect others to share your repetitious eschewed views of things.

Can't turn back the clock,

You have managed not only to 'turn back the clock' but change history as it is truly known. Amazing feat were it not for the fact that rest of us actually have history books. Kind of a sticking point you might want to consider before entering year five of your repetitious eschewed views of things. I'm curious, do you actually go out of your way to write incorrect things?

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All of Palestine belongs to Palaestine and all Palestinians have the right to return to their houses and land. Hamas knows this, the citizens in Shabra know this, anybody who is compassionate about justice and what is right knows this. But in reality, you can't just make Israel vanish. Israel is a newly created country with no history, everything is new from their terrorist beginnings , until now. The Israelis need desperate help. Their country is perched among hostility, their leaders have hijacked the nation for it's Zionist agenda. There is still a place for Israel. But no place for the Zionist, just like there is no place for Hitler Inc, or Imperial Japan. But these two countries changed, just like Israel can, and in the world, Israel and Japan are both peaceful , and have strong economies. Israel too, can change.

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The minute someone uses the word "zionist" as if it were the equivalent of, for example, "Hitler, Inc", whatever that is supposed to mean, I get greatly suspicious. "Zionist" merely means a supporter of Israel's right to exist. Nothing evil about that. Israel is not a new country and its history certainly is longer and richer than many countries in the world. Hamas is the real sticking point in this conflict. Both Fatah and Israel know this in their hearts. They both want to get rid of Hamas. However, Fatah is worried about backlash from their own people and Israel is worried about backlash from the world. The world, meanwhile, blissfully ignore Hamas. Of course, when you don't have to live under Hamas, it is quite easy to ignore them.

Israel and Palestine both certainly do have the potential for great futures, once Hamas is no longer blocking their way to peace.

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