Palestinians express doubts over 2-state future

KevininHawaii,

Thank you for your wonderful analysis! You are correct, of course. When Israel went in to steal the land of it neighbors that they had been working and planning for close to twenty years to give to the Palestinians for their own independent nation, the neighboring countries were extremely friendly and peaceful with Israel. Israel took advantage of the neighbors' kindnesses and peacefulness and went in suddenly and just took the land.

You are correct, one peaceful day Israel just decided to go into its neighbors' land and steal it. The Arabs have always been friendly and peaceful to Israel and Israel just selfishly took land. It was like a stab in the back to the friendly nations around Israel.

You are right about the fact that China is in no way interested in any relationship with Israel either economically or militarily and it has been this way for at least 17 years. In fact, very recently China went to bat for Iran against Israel because China does not like Israel at all.

Thank you for you concise and truthful opinions!

thetruthhurts - Israel did not take land, and kick the previous owners out FOR NO REASON. It had a reason - it wanted the land, and it wanted the previous owners (the Palestinians) gone.

Jews and Arabs hate each other today - but it was not always this way.

You have every right to be angry. Palestinian woke up one day, and their land was stolen, and they were evicted. But I do not think this is going to change soon. Israel is not going to weaken this week, and the Palestinians are not going to unify, and work together - so NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE.

Every muslim country in the middle east wants Israel gone....and China wants their oil.... so in a few decades, I could see China supporting the surrounding oil producing nations in their goal to return Israel to the Palestinians...but this will take a while yet.

Yeah, you're probably right, considering the Israelis took all the best land, leaving only a few tiny scattered pieces of land for the Palestinians

Absolutely, Israel just took it. There was no reason for that whatsoever. The surrounding Arab countries have been nothing but kind and understanding and that is how Israel responded. Remember how hard the neighoring countries had worked on their nearly twenty year plan of preparing the land for the independent Palestinian state when Israel just took it suddenly?

The most likely solution, and the fairest, would be a one-state solution (with the right of return for the displaced Palestinians) where every person has equal rights; i.e., DEMOCRACY.

Exactly, because no one recognizes the existence of the state of Israel anyway. It does not really exist. In fact, would it not be easier to just force all the Israelis out? Maybe they could be put in some sort of camps or something. Why hasn't anyone thought of this before?

The only support they get is from some bribed/blackmailed leaders; bribed using some of the massive financial aid Israel receives.

Straight up again! As the only country in the region that receives aid, it is not a surprise that they would use it in such a way. Did you know, the surrounding countries don't receive any aid at all. Not only that, Palestinians don't either. Can you believe it? Furthermore, most, if not all, Western and Middle Eastern leaders are merely bribed puppets put into power by a secret group that controls mostly everything in the world. In fact, mostly very country's government is like that. All except the Palestinian leadership. Thankfully their honestly is above question.

BTW - The Two State solution WILL NEVER WORK!!!

Yeah, you're probably right, considering the Israelis took all the best land, leaving only a few tiny scattered pieces of land for the Palestinians, and considering the Israelis' terrible behavior over the past several decades.

The most likely solution, and the fairest, would be a one-state solution (with the right of return for the displaced Palestinians) where every person has equal rights; i.e., DEMOCRACY.

Israel does not have any support in the world. That is because it is always wrong.

I very much agree. The only support they get is from some bribed/blackmailed leaders; bribed using some of the massive financial aid Israel receives.

BTW, since 1992 Israel and China have had no economic or military cooperation whatsoever. Israel was not the first country in the Middle East to recognize China. Please don't believe the MSM hype. Israel does not have any support in the world. That is because it is always wrong. It certainly will be interesting to see how the relationship between Israel and its neighbors and the Palestinian changes when and if China would to overtake the US because their is no mutual recognition between Israel and China.

Thanks for pointing out this wonderful truths as well.

KevininHawaii,

Well done! Because of the controlled MSM most people are not aware that only Israel receives aid money from the US. None of the other neighboring countries do and neither does Palestine. People also need to understand that this entire conflict is Israel's fault. Israel's neighbors have tried time and time again to make peace with Israel, to no avail. This is nothing to say of Hamas' great efforts in attempting to make peace. It really is sad to see all these countries making all this effort for so many years and have their wonderful kind effort ignored by Israel and the MSM.

You wrote correctly that Israel suddenly and for no reason whatsoever took land away from its neighbors that they had been carefully planning for almost twenty years to give to the Palestinians for their own independent state. All that planning and preparation for nothing. Even after that, the neighboring countries have only reached their hands out in peace to Israel.

Thank for such a clear and truthful picture of the situation.

'Palestine' is growing rich on foreign 'aid.' They talk about finding a solution, the way a welfare queen talks about getting a job.

BTW - The Two State solution WILL NEVER WORK!!!

"He who has the gold makes the rules" "Might makes right"

As long as Israel has the gold, guns (and unwavering American support), NOTHING will change. Israel sees no need to be nice to its neighbors and the people whose land it stole (the Palestinians were evicted, and their lands confiscated). Until the U.S. can no longer afford to play global cop, and run interference (at the U.N.) for Israel, things will stay pretty much as they are.

I will be interested to see how Israel's attitude changes as U.S. power fades. Will Israel start courting China? As China is the new rising power to deal with, I wonder, will China continue to protect Israel?

If Israel does not start making nice with its neighbors before the power shifts to China, it is going to get really ugly, really soon.

I think by 2040, Israel will be under new management, and change its name to Palestine...

In ancient times, when tribes of Jews and Palestinians fought, the victor tended to kill all of the enemy. In modern times, especially since WW2, that is no longer acceptable behavior. The only way there will be lasting peace in the middle east is if one side can totally annihilate their enemy... just an observation.

Go Israel!

Yes, indeed, go Israel, go away...

Go Israel!

"thetruthhurts:

Great job of describing the islamists' parallel universe! :-)"

thetruthhurts:

Great job of describing Sabis parallel universe! :-)

The Wikileak stuff shows Israel is remarkably consistent in dialogues and action. So it looks like the burden is on so-called Palestine.

sabiwabi,

Of course you are absolutely correct. As I said, the surrounding Arab countries have always been seeking peace with Israel as have the Palestinians. As you also know, the countries in the Middle East have never expelled any Jews from their countries. They have always been most welcoming. This is shown by the fact that the numbers of Jews in these countries have not only stayed exactly the same as they were, they have actually increased in the past sixty years. Good catch on that. The Arab countries have never attacked Israel and neither have the Palestinians. Anything to the contrary is, of course, manufactured by the MSM. I appreciate your constant repeating of the truth.

Apparently not, it was not enough for some.

Of course I understood you and agree with all of your fine truths. However, the way you wrote what you wrote was indeed silly. It is like writing you like all foods and apples.

The Israelis' actions are THE obstacle to peace, they do not want peace, they never have, and likely never will want peace.

Again, bravo! The Arab countries have been most courteous and kind to Israel since even before it brutally, suddenly and unreasonably took land the surrounding countries had been planning for nearly twenty years to make into an independent Palestinian state. Even after that, the Arab countries have been nothing but reasonable and considerate towards Israel. Hamas in particular has been making a constant effort to create a peaceful atmosphere in which peace should exist. It is all Israel's fault that peace has never come to the region. Thank you for telling the world about this.

Israel has been loved and accepted from the beginning by its neighbors.

When you behave the way the Israelis have always behaved, what do you expect, to be greeted with flowers? Within 3 years after the liberation of Auschwitz, 70-80% of Palestinians were brutally expelled from their land, and you believe the Palestinians should show them love? Their recent actions in Lebanon, Gaza, and the attack on the humanitarian flotilla reflects well what kind of mentality they have.

Don't you think the International Court of Justice and the UN kind of covered those as well?

Apparently not, it was not enough for some. Anyway, instead of splitting hairs (ala kinniku) lets focus of the facts, that practically the entire world, the International Court of Justice, the UN, the EU foreign affairs council and other qualified groups all say that the land belongs to the Palestinians and that all settlements, including in East Jerusalem, are illegal under international law and an obstacle to peace. The Israelis' actions are THE obstacle to peace, they do not want peace, they never have, and likely never will want peace.

No. I wanted to demonstrate that it was not just a popular belief, or the Arab world.

Don't you think the International Court of Justice and the UN kind of covered those as well?

This conflict is so clear and unambiguous

It really is, isn't it. Israel has been loved and accepted from the beginning by its neighbors. This love and acceptance continued all the way up to 67. Even after Israel suddenly and without any reason at all took land its neighbors had been preparing for nearly twenty years to make an independent state for the Palestinians, Israel has only been met with continued acceptance and love on the part of its neighbors. This is also true of the Palestinian leadership, especially Hamas. They have offered nothing but solutions, love and acceptance. We should not believe the MSM, but only our hearts in this affair.

don't you think 'the entire world kind of covers that well enough?

No. I wanted to demonstrate that it was not just a popular belief, or the Arab world. In addition to practically all the people of the world believing it, it is also accepted by official organizations with in depth knowledge of international law. You see, it is only Israel who claims that Israel is in any way entitled to this land.

That is what is so frustrating for the Palestinians. This conflict is so clear and unambiguous, all the Palestinians want is to live free and to return to their land, their homes, their orchards; but all we hear on the MSM is that they are terrorists and Israel has the right to defend itself BY ANY MEANS.

The capital, which is the ancient center of Jewish civilization and religion.

Yeah, apparently Jews lived there in ANCIENT time, which did not last very long. How does that give them the right today to demolish so many homes of Palestinians who had been living there for centuries. And the vast majority of Jews who live in Israel are not even descendants of the Israelites. Their religion gives them that right?

Wikileaks didn't have any real dirt on the Israeli government, not even on the Likud Party.

So it is understandable that the people in Palestine see their hopes slipping away.

By "others", I am referring to other groups.

Perhaps, but don't you think 'the entire world kind of covers that well enough?

That says it all. It is crystal clear that the Israelis are the obstacle to peace, they do not want peace, they never have, and likely never will want peace.

You really have hit the nail on the head here! The surrounding Arab countries have been pleading with Israel to make peace with Israel for decades now. In addition, Hamas has announced their desire for peace so many times Israeli ears must be ringing. People should not believe the false reports in the MSM suggesting that Hamas leaders are planning new attacks or them saying that they will never recognize Israel. Hamas has always just wanted to be friends with Israel. It is time for the misunderstanding to stop.

There are no "settlements" in East Jerusalem. Israel won the 7-day war in 67 and (unlike the West bank) annexed the city, which is its capital.

The capital, which is the ancient center of Jewish civilization and religion.

What does it say about the "peaceful" intentions of muslim Arabs that they want to make the Israeli capitol their capital?

Of course, there is no interest in peace or in "2 states" from the "Palestinian" (aka muslim arab) side. The consistant goal is to eliminate the Jewish state.

The entire world, the International Court of Justice, the UN, and others all say that it belongs to the Palestinians.

By "others", I am referring to other groups. For example, very recently the EU foreign affairs council stated: "Our views on settlements, including in East Jerusalem, are clear: they are illegal under international law and an obstacle to peace."

That says it all. It is crystal clear that the Israelis are the obstacle to peace, they do not want peace, they never have, and likely never will want peace.

There is nothing wrong with this, so long as they don't express their doubts in a violent fashion.

The entire world, the International Court of Justice, the UN, and others

Just curious, who else are you referring to, Martians? I was not aware the condemnation went that far.

In fact, you are probably aware that since its creation Egypt, the other surrounding countries begged Israel to make peace with them. All they have ever wanted was peace with Israel.

Israel was widely condemned when it stole land by force in 1967.

You tell it sir! In 1967, Israel took land those countries had been planning to use to make an independent Palestinian country. In fact, Palestinians led joyous lives before Israel's completely unreasonable invasion in 1967.

Even if Israel decides to be overly generous and give land to the Palestinians...

Its not theirs to give. The entire world, the International Court of Justice, the UN, and others all say that it belongs to the Palestinians. So they have nothing to give, what they must do is get out of Palestine.

Israel was widely condemned when it stole land by force in 1967. A UNSC resolution stated clearly that taking land by force was inadmissible and that the land had to be returned. They have ever since illegally occupied that land despite constant calls from the entire international community and the International Court of Justice.

And they imposed a crushing and illegal blockade that has also been widely condemned.

Palestine is a nation with clearly defined and recognized borders (pre-1967 borders). Because Israel is set on continuing expanding until they have achieved their goal of "Greater Israel" they have yet to declare their own borders, so some would question whether Israel was even a nation.

What, now they want two states?

LOL!!!

What, now they want two states?

"Palestinians", Al Qaeda, suicide bombers in Sweden, Somali pirates - there isn't an enemy of civilization out there that the Left won't fetishize and exonerate before the fact and after the carnage...

lovejapan - Thanks for the clarification. Just the insult was hottomales'.

as for experiencing life as a palestinian, true enough. same with experiencing life as an Israeli woman or child under constant threat of being blown up by a palestinian woman or child while shopping.

Again, spot on! In the Middle East people are convinced to believe things through the gentle persuasion of their wise leaders. There is no mass media or movies to get in the way of the truth. That is why it is easy for people in the Middle East to see the problems before them and fix them quick smart. Soon we will see peace because of this intelligent guidance on the part of Hamas and others.

@manfromamerica, hottomales didnt quote that whole paragraph. It was my error. I meant to quote the first 2 sentences. The rest is me. @TimRussert, the free countries that you speak of aren't as free as you think, hence the whole wikileak news. The only difference between the west and the middle east, is the west likes to use psychological warfare on its own people with media, movies, etc to brainwash the masses. The middle east or the east are more straight to the point and dont hide behind smoke screens.

They actually prospered under Israeli rule.

hottomale: I don't know how you arrive at that conclusion.

It's called research. You should try it sometime. Economics is the most neglected dimension of the "Palestinian" question, in part because Israel's enemies also oppose free markets, free minds, free speech and free inquiry.

You know, I don't mind so much that a few of you are pro-Israeli. I mind that you seem to live in a fantasy land. I dont blame these posters much. They have been brainwashed by the western media mainly owned by, I mean their own media convinced them to go to war in Iraq under false pretenses, so go figure.

i see hottomales thinks everyone who disagrees with him/her is "brainwashed"... lol

hottomales - you haven't shown one bit of proof defending what you said or proving me wrong. I guess you can't. :-)

lovejapan21,

Right on! Palestinians were perfectly happy up until 1967. In fact, they were about to be given their own country. Thanks for keeping things real!

@hottomales

You know, I don't mind so much that a few of you are pro-Israeli. I mind that you seem to live in a fantasy land. I dont blame these posters much. They have been brainwashed by the western media mainly owned by, I mean their own media convinced them to go to war in Iraq under false pretenses, so go figure. Not until one lives a week in Palestine and feel the humiliation and hardship they have to live since 1967, one wonders why they had enough and started their new way of grabbing attention...

They actually prospered under Israeli rule.

I don't know how you arrive at that conclusion.

Palestinians have proven time and time again that they are incapable of self rule.

You mean like the time they were ruled by the Egyptians or Jordinians? When have the Palestinians actually had self-rule "time and time again"? When have the Pals actually ever ruled their own borders of land and sea, or had free access to their own airspace?

You know, I don't mind so much that a few of you are pro-Israeli. I mind that you seem to live in a fantasy land.

No big deal really. Palestinians have proven time and time again that they are incapable of self rule. They actually prospered under Israeli rule. They should just go back to that, so they can prosper once again.

There will never be a Palestine again. The Palestinians are just too incompetent to negotiate for it. They have been their own worst enemy. Instead of building trust they have only built back stabbing. They'd be much further ahead if it weren't their nature to double cross people all the time. And for who owns the land. Well the Jews were there in Masada when the Romans were around so "Palestinians" claim to it is just bogus. It has changed hands so many times. It's just the Jews turn to hold it this time. The Pals can have it back when they grow a brain and figure out how to get it back. That will be either through negotiation or through all out war. Good luck.

It would be good if the Palestinians could give up their terrorism against Israel and then talks could be held to form an independent Palestinian State. However, it cannot be based on the old pre-1967 boundaries. In 1967, the Israelis reclaimed what is rightfully theirs, the Land given to them thousands of years ago. It was first promised to Moses 4000 years ago, therefore the Israelis have a right to live there. If many of the Palestinians had their way, Israel would net exist at all. The modern State of Israel came into being in 1948, a fulfillment of a prophecy in the OT as recorded by Ezekiel. Historically, the so-called "West Bank" area was a part of ancient Israel, therefore, the Palestians have no right to claim it as part of their future State. Jerusalem also is the historical Capital of ancient Israel, and therefore it cannot be divided between the Israelis and the Palestinians.

manfromamerica: you haven't shown one shred of evidence refuting me

Only for the same reason you have not shown one shred of evidence proving what you say: its make-believe. You cannot prove or disprove make-believe. No one knows what was in Arafat's head except Arafat. But while you have tried to tell us you know, I have instead laid down facts that can be verified to prove the deal was not as sweet as you imagine. And that sir, is what is called making a case, something you have utterly failed to do.

why do you support palestinian terrorism?

Why do you persist in groundless statements? You have no ammo, that's why.

SuperLib said: What good have all the terrorist bombs done for the Palestinians through all the years?

Attention to their cause. But a better question is what has terrorism got Israel? A country, that's what. See Hanganah and Menachim Begin. The Pals might be making a poor job of it, but they are only copying a successful strategy, just like when Albert Einstein himself accused Begin's Herut Party of using Nazi methods and running a reign of terror against the Pals.

And they were close to a deal in 2000. Terrorism played a part in getting there, like it or not. If only the Israelis could have been happy with half of Jerusalem! But no. To Israelis, apparently, splitting evenly between 2 peoples has a different meaning than for the rest of us. Apparently, its means 60/40 to them. And "please" won't work either. As far as I know, passive resistance alone has never worked, not even for Ghandi.

hottamales: Israel can afford to be generous. In fact, its in their best interest or the terrorism will not stop.

What good have all the terrorist bombs done for the Palestinians through all the years? Personally, I think as long as they choose terrorism they will never be an end to their abject poverty. The world simply isn't going to put enough pressure on Israel to make any changes as long as the militants give Israel an excuse.

sabiwabi: While many who have been mesmerized by the MSM falsely believe Hamas seeks to kill all Jews, so few are aware of their willingness to accept peace with Israel based on a return to the pre-1967 borders and the lifting of the illegal blockade. In other words, following international law.

Your comments sound like they come from a spokesperson for the Chinese government where they talk to you as if you have absolutely no information about any situation except the information they've provided. And in that vacuum, it all makes sense.

Absolutely. It certainly is amazing how powerful the spell of the MSM is. If we were to believe their 'reports', we would think that Hamas actually vowed more attacks on Israelis. However, we know the truth is that Hamas just wants to live in peace with Israel. Heck, it says so in their charter and their actions have never been anything other than peaceful.

lol. Sabi's so funny. Talking about how Hamas just wants to live in peace with Israel. And how there would be no violence if Israel would simply return to the 1967 borders... So funny.

manfromamerica said: Even if Israel decides to be overly generous and give land to the Palestinians, they'll just have to take it back again the next time the Arabs/Muslims start a war.

Oh, so the Pals have to suffer because of what some third party might do. And never mind that most Jews in Israel chose to live next to that third party. I tell you, anyone that blatantly selfish would have been beaten like a red headed step-child in my family. I can only imagine yours was quite permissive for you to come out casually typing what you did and still be able to hold your lunch down.

Fact is, all those neighbors learned their lesson. Nothing overt is going to come from those neighbors. Its only the rag-tag oppressed with nothing to lose who messes with Israel now. Israel can afford to be generous. In fact, its in their best interest or the terrorism will not stop. (that is a fact I am stating. Don't take it as support for terror).

I judge the "Palestinians" by how they treat their own.

I judge all by many measures, including that one and how they treat others too. Sloganeering will only put you on a one way track straight to "wrong". There is evil in both the Pals and the Israelis. But its the Israelis who hold the cards in this game. The people who realize that focus on the Israelis, but I for one also understand the wrongs of the Pals.

But it seems that some of you are just here to bellyache. I have actually thought about how this mess can get solved, and no, telling the oppressed to behave while the oppressor lords over them won't work, just like it did not work when the Jews were the slaves of Pharoah. Take a cue from Moses.

manfromamerica said: see, I can make general assumptions just like you can.

But I still can't dodge questions and points like you can! Look, you don't have to admit you were wrong about Arafat and the two state deal, but if not, don't address the post with dodges. Silence is golden. But admitting to being incorrect every once in a while takes platinum balls!

Also search on google "A personal appeal from Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales" for a ton of info on Palestinian and Israel

For those interested in viewing a 10 min clip on you tube about Palestinian history and recent facts from the "palestinian side" of this, search "our story by dr. mustafa Barghouthi"

Absolutely. It certainly is amazing how powerful the spell of the MSM is. If we were to believe their 'reports', we would think that Hamas actually vowed more attacks on Israelis. However, we know the truth is that Hamas just wants to live in peace with Israel. Heck, it says so in their charter and their actions have never been anything other than peaceful.

While many who have been mesmerized by the MSM falsely believe Hamas seeks to kill all Jews, so few are aware of their willingness to accept peace with Israel based on a return to the pre-1967 borders and the lifting of the illegal blockade. In other words, following international law.

The blockade has nothing to do with security, most people have caught on by now.

Shout it proud! Very few people know that what was reported a couple of months ago as Hamas vowing more attacks on Israelis was mistaken. Hamas only wants to make friends with Israel. It is time for more people to catch on to this.

land by force in 1967

Very true.

Israel took land from Arab countries had been planning to use for an independent Palestinian state. The Arab countries just wanted peace.

I judge the "Palestinians" by how they treat their own. Hamas executed "traitors" to the cause by the dozens. Lined em up and shot em in the back.

good point.

sabi?

it's manfromamerica. what's your conspiracy hypothesis about that?

Amnesty International

LOL

A UNSC resolution stated clearly that taking land by force was inadmissible and that the land had to be returned.

Ahh, you ignored the UNSC resolution supporting the conditions for war with Iraq. why do you bring UNSC up now?

Palestine is a nation

Nope. Israel is. And Israel does not have to give land to terrorist organizations like Hamas.

You're just dishing out every leftist cliche in the book.

What, were they reasonably afraid of having fresh meat missles lobbed at them?

Hottomale saw his opponent's "ad-hominems" and raised him a few non-sequiturs.

I judge the "Palestinians" by how they treat their own. Hamas executed "traitors" to the cause by the dozens. Lined em up and shot em in the back.

manfrom?,

The blockade has been condemned by Amnesty International as illegal and cruel. Your distorted version of an armed commando attack in the middle of the night in international waters does not change the fact that Israel was widely condemned when it stole land by force in 1967. A UNSC resolution stated clearly that taking land by force was inadmissible and that the land had to be returned. They have ever since illegally occupied that land despite constant calls from the entire international community and the International Court of Justice.

Palestine is a nation with clearly defined and recognized borders (pre-1967 borders). Because Israel is set on continuing expanding until they have achieved their goal of "Greater Israel" they have yet to declare their own borders.

Even if Israel decides to be overly generous and give land to the Palestinians, they'll just have to take it back again the next time the Arabs/Muslims start a war.

I think things will be pretty much the same in 10 years.

I see, to you blocking illegal arms shipments via communist groups ...

Illegal arms? Do you mean things like chocolate, jam, fruit juice, textiles, and plastic toys? The blockade has nothing to do with security, most people have caught on by now.

hotomales -

why do you agree with palestinian terrorism?

Israel blocks food to Gaza

I see, to you blocking illegal arms shipments via communist groups under the guise of "humanitarian aid" is worse than suicide bombers blowing up women and children in shopping centers. ok.....

your silly accusations are not covering up that you're just plain wrong.

see, I can make general assumptions just like you can.

Israel can't absorb all these Palestinian populations. They will be outvoted in elections.

Indeed, if they do not settle this quickly, they'll have to settle for a one-state solution, where Palestinians will end up outvoting the Israelis. Finally, the Israelis will get to see real democracy.

manfromamerica said: Arafat was a thief who stole billions of dollars from his own palestinian people. He was the palestinian-proclaimed and supported mouthpiece of the palestinian terror movement.

Your dodging of the question with ad-hominems only underscores the fact that you spoke incorrectly.

Israel has been more than reasonable.

Israel has generally not been reasonable at all. Israel blocks food to Gaza and you claim they have been more than reasonable? What, were they reasonably afraid of having fresh meat missles lobbed at them? Are you just here for comedic effect? Israel reasonable! What a farce!

Israel can't absorb all these Palestinian populations. They will be outvoted in elections. So eventually, they'd have to let control of Palestine go, so Palestinians would vote for their own leaders outside Israel.

hottomales -

Arafat was a thief who stole billions of dollars from his own palestinian people. He was the palestinian-proclaimed and supported mouthpiece of the palestinian terror movement.

Israel has been more than reasonable. Now it's time to build.

manfromamerica said: Israel offered it. Arafat turned it down in favor of terrorism.

In 2000? As for Arafat "turning them down" it would help if you understand something very basic: Arafat was a representative, not an almight dictator. Palestinians are very divided (see Hamas) How could he just let complete sovereignty of East Jerusalem go and still be the representative? Do you actually imagine, for one second, that East Jerusalem could just be further partitioned (considering that Israel already has complete control of West Jerusalem)and peace be maintained that way?

You know what Israel offered in place of land in the West Bank? Land in the Negev desert! Here I thought it was only Israelis that could make desert bloom (though the Negev seems to be an exception!) He might as well of just slapped Arafat across the face!

As it stands, neither side arrived at agreement, so don't act like Barak does not share equal responsibility: He does. The Israeli deal was like offering to only return "some" of another man's stolen merchandise. It was enough that Arafat offered "administration" of parts of East Jerusalem, but Barak demanded "sovereignty", a permanent Israeli finger right up the Palestinian bum!

Viva Palestina!!!

you know they don't speak spanish, right? anyway, the land belongs to Israel, and they have the right to keep building.

As long as Palestinians support terrorism, they have no right to anything.

Actually, that is exactly how I feel about the Israelis.

Viva Palestina!!!

The wars of arab and muslim aggression gave the land to Israel. It is now Israels.

TimRussert said: Show me pre-1967 documents from the U.N. which describe the Arabs in this area as "Palestinians."

Not even necessary unless you are trying to say that people don't exist unless they are documented by the U.N.

Or is you position that they suddenly appear out of thin air in 1967?

Either way, your statement is pretty daft. Not having some sort of national identity is not a valid excuse to steal the lands of individuals and cut off their access to borders of land and sea and keep them from flying too. You don't need to be documented to be oppressed. You only need be a human according to our laws.

As long as Palestinians support terrorism, they have no right to anything.

The Balfour Declaration outlined what became "Palestine" on the political map.

You should give the Balfour declaration another look. It was about "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people", not the other way around. Palestine already existed long before the 1917 declaration.

Interestingly, although the zionists welcomed the declaration, they completely ignored the part that stated: "it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine".

By 1967, the Israelis had already taken all the best Palestinian land, but that was not enough. In 1967, they stole more land by force, in a move that was widely condemned. A UNSC resolution stated clearly that taking land by force was inadmissible and that the land had to be returned. They have ever since illegally occupied that land despite constant calls from the entire international community. Surprisingly, Israel still expects to be considered a respectable nation.

Israel only offered peanuts to Arafat. Arafat accepted Israel's unfair offer, but Israel never followed their end of the deal, notwithstanding the MSM spin.

Absolutely. In related news, Netanyahu and his cabinet are planning to convert to Islam and the leaders of Hamas have convinced their voters to convert to Judaism. Just reading the MSM you will never see this or know that peace is just around the corner. I don't know how anyone can be doubtful at the wonderful progress being made.

nanfromamerica,

Israel must relinquish all the land it stole in 1967, it does not belong to them.

Israel only offered peanuts to Arafat. Arafat accepted Israel's unfair offer, but Israel never followed their end of the deal, notwithstanding the MSM spin.

Israel better solve this quick, before its too late. They risk losing it all.

Conventional wisdom on Israeli-Palestinian peacemaking has long held that Israel should relinquish most of the lands it occupied in 1967 in favor of a Palestinian state—the “two-state solution” that much of the world has supported for years.

Israel offered it. Arafat turned it down in favor of terrorism.

There is and should be only Israel until Palestinians give up terrorism.

@TimRussert even if i tell you that my ancestors (which i can track back 200 years) have been calling themselves Palestinians, you will just ignore it and follow your belief no matter the evidence. We call people like you unreasonable in law. As for the UN, you must be kidding me! If it weren't for the US's only veto to every resolution against Israel being quashed...and the war on Iraq, wasn't sanctioned by the UN but...the UN has no credibility thanks to the veto powered nations, especially .... Anyway, my pitch is for reasonable people, not you. and just so you know, I know tons of young reasonable Israelies that i have met while traveling the globe who share my views, they just know, as we know, that governments everywhere, including theres, dont really have the peoples interests at heart.

Palestinians existed long before Israelis.

Anyway, very recently Brazil, Argentina, and Uruguay have declared that they recognize the Palestinian state within the 1967 borders. Others will certainly follow.

Palestine exists, it is illegally occupied. The Israelis will get out, for there own sake, better sooner than later.

LoveinJapan - thanks for the pointless little foray into etymology there.

Show me pre-1967 documents from the U.N. which describe the Arabs in this area as "Palestinians."

You can't.

There are none.

What? There are doubts? Shocking. I mean both sides have been working so hard.

"Palestinians" - as they have been calling themselves since 1967 - aren't interested in much, other than perpetuating their own misery.

Doubt? No way!!