Palestinians more skeptical about Mideast talks

Insisting on the 67 borders, and a right of return, is idiotic. You might as well insist that the US return Arizona to Mexico, or that Japan renounce any claim to Okinawa. That is essentially what they are demanding of Israel. Bringing this up, shows you have absolutely no interest in negotiating. As I said on the other threat, the Pals an Obama might as well demand that every male Jew commit suicide and all the females act as prostitutes for them. It would be as likely to happen.

The solution is a simple compromise. Right of return is denied and all Jews living in occupied territories are forced to return to the 1967 borders, the same way the "Ost" Germans were required to leave their ancestral homes in Eastern Europe for Germany proper.

The "Ost" Israelis, unlike the Germans, would be compensated. So would the Palestinians who lost their homes during the ethnic cleansing. Of course, we can be certain it will be the long suffering, American taxpayer who will provide the compensation.

The solution is a simple compromise. Right of return is denied and all Jews living in occupied territories are forced to return to the 1967 borders, the same way the "Ost" Germans were required to leave their ancestral homes in Eastern Europe for Germany proper.

Even simpler solution. Israel keeps East Jerusalem, and the most populated portions of the West Bank, along with the Golan Heights. The allow the Pals to have the remainder of the West Bank for their to be formed country. If they don't like it, tough. Thats whats on the table. Thats the only thing thats going to be on the table. Any attempts to get more land out of Israel is simply a non starter. No point in even suggesting or bringing it up.

Some of you guys hatred for Obama is amazing. He simply stated what Bush said in Israel on Jan 20 2008 which is still recorded on video. Ehud Barak said the same even though he was an Israel PM. Obama repeating those same lines is now an abomination. This is not about Obama. Its about peace in the ME, the recruiting subject for most Islamic extremists.

What a taihen difficult job Obama has, but I think he needs to move much slower when regarding territorial matter. Something like if Israel gives back few hundred square meters of land in Gaza strip what sort of things it will receive in return. Slowly ,step by step; just my 2 cents.

Netanyahu delivered quite a smackdown to Obama.I think the Palistinians sense that although Obama talks a good game he is weak when confronted.

There needs to be compromise from both sides. Without compromise, both sides won't enjoy peace. Israel won't achieve the peace and stability it seeks; the Palestinians won't get their independent state. It'll be war in perpetuity. If they're satisfied with that, then they'd deserve to just live their lives as it is, with nothing solved.

Obama will be giving a speech to the nation's largest pro-Israeli lobby group AIPAC. He seems to be manning up and standing his ground. This will be interesting.

Molenir, u and a few powerful ......in the US feel that way as opposed to the REST OF THE WORLD (billions of people). Israe is just lucky to have those few powerful people controling the way a superpower like the US leans on this matter. This is another example how a powerful few can control the masses even beyond their borders.

There needs to be compromise from both sides. Without compromise, both sides won't enjoy peace. Israel won't achieve the peace and stability it seeks; the Palestinians won't get their independent state. It'll be war in perpetuity. If they're satisfied with that, then they'd deserve to just live their lives as it is, with nothing solved.

Israels compromise is to give up a lot of land, and allow a potentially hostile country to be formed for a people who have been taught all their lives to hate Israel. What exactly are the Pals willing to give up? And why do they demand even more land than Israel is willing to give them?

Molenir,

Palestinians finally have to recognize Israel's right to exist and its security, like normal states treat each other. Probably give up having the refugees return to Israel too and instead remain in the new state of Palestine. Basically, a peace treaty. After war, warring parties usually compromise on lands and resolve issues, in return for a lasting peace - which is the ultimate goal in itself. Israel returned the Sinai to Egypt in return for Egypt's recognition of and peace with Israel, so it's a big deal. (Even South Korea would love to get such lasting peace deal from North Korea.)

As for demanding more land than Israel is willing to give them, when you negotiate, you don't start with a figure where you're willing to settle. You ask for a higher figure and work your way down the negotiations. Haggle, y'know, haha.

Palestinians finally have to recognize Israel's right to exist and its security, like normal states treat each other.

Ah, so if you are willing to give me a lot of money and land, I'll finally have to recognize your right to exist as well? I can still kill you of course, but I recognize your right to exist...

Basically, a peace treaty. After war, warring parties usually compromise on lands and resolve issues, in return for a lasting peace - which is the ultimate goal in itself.

The naivete expressed here is staggering. A lasting peace? Do you really think, even for a moment, that there will be a lasting peace if Israel gives up all the land the Pals demand, and caves to every single demand they make? This kind of silliness really makes me wonder how some people can even manage to feed themselves.

Let me make this really simple. There can be no peace, as long as people on both sides teach their children to hate those on the other. The cause of the hate is not caused by Israel supposedly occupying their land. It is caused by those leaders who preach hatred. By the teachers who teach it in Hamas and Fatah schools, and from parents who as children were taught to hate Israel, and who pass that hate along to their own children.

Palestinians finally have to recognize Israel's right to exist and its security, like normal states treat each other.

Ah, so if you are willing to give me a lot of money and land, I'll finally have to recognize your right to exist as well? I can still kill you of course, but I recognize your right to exist...

Ah, I think you parsed over the part about "... and its security." That's how normal states treat each other, not just one or the other.

Remember, once Israel and Egypt made peace after the war, there hasn't been much issue between them. For 4 decades, it shows it can be done.

Let me make this really simple. There can be no peace, as long as people on both sides teach their children to hate those on the other.

And both sides will keep teaching that to their children unless there is peace. See the circular logic there? At some point, that cycle has to stop. And it'll take some bold moves (akin to anti-China Nixon visiting China) on both sides - one side can't do it alone. Both sides will have to give in, lose some in order to gain something greater.

Remember, once Israel and Egypt made peace after the war, there hasn't been much issue between them. For 4 decades, it shows it can be done.

There are other factors you are not taking into account here. First, the government of Egypt wasn't in the business of teaching hate. In point of fact, they cracked down on that pretty harshly. The new government though, they seem to be allowing it. Contrast this with the Pals...

Do I think Egypt and Israel will go to war tomorrow? No, Egypt has too much to lose, and nothing to gain. This is not the case with the Pals who feel they have nothing to lose, and everything to gain.

Remember, once Israel and Egypt made peace after the war, there hasn't been much issue between them. For 4 decades, it shows it can be done.

There are other factors you are not taking into account here. First, the government of Egypt wasn't in the business of teaching hate. In point of fact, they cracked down on that pretty harshly.

Well, now the Egypt military cracks down on anything that could destabilize its power, including teaching hate. But not at the beginning - Egypt taught hate like the rest of the Arab League. After making peace with Israel, Egypt was suspended from the Arab League, and it was so unpopular that ex-Pres. Anwar Sadat paid for it with his life in an intra-military assassination. That assassination was actually what turned the Egyptian military around - because of that, they saw that allowing teaching hate could lead to schisms and destabilizing the military. So it was after making peace with Israel when Egypt started turning itself around.

Furthermore, the new Egypt government may seem allowing it, but it's more that it's giving their people a bit more freedom, the good and the bad. And as they say with freedom, the way to drown hate (free) speech is not to stifle speech but rather with more good speech. That's what the Egyptian people, new to freedom, are still learning.

As you say, the Palestinians have not much to lose right now. But the more Palestine develops and becomes intertwined internationally, like Egypt then, the more stuff they could claim ownership of and thus the more stuff they could lose. They have to experience that they have a lot to lose.

Just want to add:

Ironically, what Egypt has a lot to lose now is US aid, especially military hardware. US started aiding Egypt after it made peace with Israel. At least that's something Palestine could possibly see themselves in the future. Ha, now wouldn't that be something?

Well, now the Egypt military cracks down on anything that could destabilize its power, including teaching hate.

Not true actually. The Muslim Brotherhood is in the open now, and the Military is doing nothing. That is a huge change.