Gingrich stands firm on blunt Palestinian stance

Ok, so now Palestinians are just some kind of invention of the imagination of??? Arabs?? of Jews?? Maybe old Newt here is trying to invent a couple of scandals to say, keep him in the news? On CNN, FOX, BBC etc..24/7?? Sorry, no vote of mine would ever be wasted on this old guy with the white hair of Phil Donohue.

The Secret Service had better quadruple the size of Newt's bodyguard. You do not want to dis Palestinians during an election campaign. Look what happened to poor Bobby Kennedy in 1968.

Truth hurts.

"much more honest approach to the Middle East"

If the Palestinians were much more honest, they would declare they would destroy Israel if they could.

Another low IQ presidential hopeful

Gingrich is right. I am surprised that a US politician actually has the guts to say this.

It is easy to verify. Before around 72, the term "Palestinian" was simply used to describe what the word says: A resident of area of Palestine. Be they Arabs, Jews, Druze, or something else. The use of "Palestinians" to describe "muslim Arabs" only is an invention of the PLO, made in order to delegitimize Jews. And it worked brilliantly.

Three cheers for Gingrich for outing this politically correct scam.

anglootaku:

Gingrich is a history professor. Are you?

By saying such, Newt is following an extremist pro-Israel line of thought that assumes:

1) Palestinians are just Arabs, and Arabs are all alike. 2) Palestinians have never historically had statehood or made unified claims to statehood, and are therefore undeserving of ethnic or political identity. 3) Palestinians do not deserve recognition (much less a state) because they object to Israel's treatment of them as an unwanted hindrance to Jewish hegemony in the region.

Newt is not alone in this bigoted and offensive way of thinking, but to say such a thing as a presidential candidate reconfirms his illegitimacy to direct the US and its policies toward the Middle East.

Plasticmonkey:

" By saying such, Newt is following an extremist pro-Israel line of thought that assumes: 1) Palestinians are just Arabs, and Arabs are all alike. 2) Palestinians have never historically had statehood or made unified claims to statehood, and are therefore undeserving of ethnic or political identity. 3) Palestinians do not deserve recognition (much less a state) because they object to Israel's treatment of them as an unwanted hindrance to Jewish hegemony in the region. "

All 3 statements are basically true, and are simple facts, not "extremist". Your not liking facts does not make them extremist. Dig as much as you want --- you will not find a particual Arab "Palestinian" identiy. Palestine is the heartland of the original Jewish kingdom, and later a part of the Ottoman state. There is no Palestinian language, Palestinian culture, or Palestinian state. The definition of "Palestinians" as "muslim Arabs" was an invention of Arafat.

Do your homework, and you will see.

@WilliB

Palestinian identity as we know it now goes back to the early 19th century, which is at least as old as interest in resurrecting an Israeli state. The cause of the Palestinians was never taken up, while the Jewish cause was (for political, religious, sentimental, and racist reasons).

You may wish to make a point about there once having been a Jewish kingdom (there obviously was), but recreating such a state thousands of years after its demise was bound to cause problems (and it did). Now that it's there, however, the world will have to live with it. Israel has proven to be, in many respects, a modern and well-functioning democracy (albeit one that only allows full participation based on ethnicity). Israel should be left to exist peacefully, but it should not be exempt from criticism.

As for Palestinian claims: the creation of Israel, as well as Israel's discrimination of its Palestinian neighbors, intensified calls for Palestinian empowerment and statehood. It is not any more unreasonable to consider the legitimacy of this desire as it was for the Americans to declare independence from its colonial masters. Americans at the time, after all, had little claim to linguistic, cultural, or political uniqueness.

@WilliB: "Gingrich is a history professor. Are you?"

He is a former professor of history at West Georgia College. That was in the 1970s.

By your logic, Obama is working as a law professor lecturing and grading papers as we speak. Ha ha ha!

If you want a more accurate job description since Newt left politics in 1999, it is author, consultant, and commentator.

And "consultant" when you are politcally well-connected is just a nice euphemism for lobbyist.

I will give credit to Gingrich for looking brilliant next to rival candidate Rick Perry, who cannot even hold up the right number of fingers on two hands when trying to count how many judges sit on the U.S. Supreme Court, or name the judge he has a problem with. Is it Montemayor? Too funny.

Aside from his next wife, does Newt have any friends?

Would Newt also contend that Montenegro and East timor are inventions?

When Gingrich says it militant Islam's lefty enablers in the West go frothing mad. When the Palestinians' Arab neighbors say it there is silence or sputtering denial as the same apologists for PLO terror search for the most effective post modernist technique with which to dissemble.

"Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identify serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel,"

= = Zuheir Muhsin, head of the terrorist PLO's 'military department' March 1977 interview with the Dutch daily newspaper Trouw

Good to see a presidential contender who sides with the Jews. Our current president certainly doesn't understand. Heck he can't even get Hanukkah right! Talk about low IQ!

Good to see a presidential contender who sides with the Jews.

yanee -- care to explain why exactly you feel this way, as opposed to making an overly simplistic statement like Newt did? In fact, one could rationally argue that the U.S.'s steadfast support of Isreal has hurt it substantially in the world of International diplomacy and has provided the justification for numerous terrorist attacks. What is "good" about that?

The Palestinian premier on Saturday slammed U.S. presidential hopeful Newt Gingrich for belittling the Palestinians as an “invented” people and demanded an apology.

Reminds me of dime-a-dozen Japanese lawmakers and PMs who put their foots in the mouths. Sigh.

Well, if we follow Newt's logic, Americans are also an invented people, unless we are talking about Native Americans. Perhaps Newt should go back to Britian?

Good to see a presidential contender who sides with the Jews.

Nonsense. A great many Jews are allergic to Newt and his ignorance. Even many Israelis too.

Not all Jews are Israelis. Not all Israelis are Jews. All Jews and all Israelis don't think alike. Each Jew is a human being with individual thoughts.

Yanee, your post suggesting otherwise is highly insulting to Jews and Israelis.

I love my Jewish blood. And no palestinians are going to take that away.

Look at how Israel turned desert green, What have the palestinians done? Or all the other arabs? And iranians are arabs. Do not let them play that persian game card. arabs are arabs.

The Palestinian premier on Saturday slammed U.S. presidential hopeful Newt Gingrich for belittling the Palestinians as an “invented” people and demanded an apology.

What a completely laughable sentence. Palestinian premier? He is a puppet, the face of a terrorist organization that shoots its own. Slammed? Only in the sense that when a gnat hits your windshield at 70 mph it 'slammed' you.

@WilliB Sorry I did not know your a professor in history that you seem to know a lot..

Yes Jews were on the land long ago I totally support that and respect it, but the region including asia has seen an influx of cultures also

'Arabs' the language and influence came from other countries, and spread in the region, they are not ethnically 'arab' cause they speak the language, no different from people talking English does not make them British.

Cain I think would of made a better republican candidate, all that nonsense about those silly people claiming to have have been harassed by Cain is silly, Obama is still the most intelligent and diplomatic.

-Ron Paul hit the nail on the head!-Let THEM do their own dirty work and stop playing Policeman to the World! -however the "Newt-Wit" did have me going with that "invented people" (they are!) story.

Take away all Europeans with Germanic ancestry and there would be a remarkably empty continent. Would Newt deny the validity of, say, France and England?

Well this is going to get interesting?

It seems a popular Republican pasttime to spew stupidity and ignorance with unwavering confidence and then declare "Whatchagonnado about it?" How about not vote for this idiot or even pretend he is anything but a joke?

HEY IS 100 PERCENT RIGHT !!!.. The history is correct !!!.... my VOTE goes to NEWT !!... for saying what needs to be said... i hope he is the next President of the USA.... and i will vote for him no matter how long i have to stand in line!

"They have textbooks that say if there are 13 Jews and nine Jews are killed, how many Jews are left?"

The Palestinians need to get rid of this and insert "If we stop firing rockets into Israel, and start behaving civilized, how prosperous could we become?"

@Serrano... 100 percent agree.. they fire rockets over the wall... then when Israel responds with gunfire.... somehow the Palestinians are the victim.. total horse manure!!

@willi

David Irving is also a history professor.

What's your point?

The term "Palestinian" to describe muslim Arabs was coined by Araft and has caught on; and it was indeed a brilliant ploy.

But that does not change the fact: There never was a separate cultural entity called "Palestine", unless that is what you call the ancient Jewish kingdom. Which of course makes the Jews the original "Palestinians".

It is sad to see how the media and politicians have bought into Arafats ploy to define muslim Arabs as "Palestinians", thus delegitimizing the Jews.

And it is great to see finally one US presidential contender to cut through the propaganda and tell the truth.

The term "France" to describe west European Germanic tribes has caught on.

The Franks (Latin: Franci or gens Francorum) were a confederation of Germanic tribes first attested in the third century AD as populating a broad strip of land on the right bank of the Lower and Middle Rhine River. The name France comes from Latin Francia, which literally means "land of the Franks". Originally it applied to the whole Frankish Empire, extending from southern France to eastern Germany.

The right to determine legitimacy of those who define themselves as a "people" does not lie with casual historians like Gingrich; it lies with the people themselves and their behavior over a term of history. The Palestinians may not have distinguished themselves particularly well over the past hundred years, but again, nobody in the region really has; they have, though, persevered, and in that lies one definition of "nationhood."

Funny how that concept of "self determination," once so important in the United States, has become so malleable.

Funny how that concept of "self determination," once so important in the United States, has become so malleable.

The Blame America First wing of the Democrat Party never disappoints on this one...

The term "France" to describe west European Germanic tribes has caught on.

Not least of all because they developed their own separate language.

Do you know anyone who speaks 'Palestinian' ?

Thank goodness "GOD" didn't promise these people my homeland, or I'd be living in a walled Ghetto relying on others to allow what they deem in. Modern Israel was created by terrorism, blowing up hotels, shootings it's a bit rich to cry foul when the tactics used to create their state are turned on them. That should stir the pot!

Ok Newt, time now for you to go back to your pond & this time stay there!

Not least of all because they developed their own separate language.

To say the French developed their own language is to say that Americans did the same - as I am sure many English would agree. Tell me, is the Arabic spoken in Palestine the same as that spoken in Algeria or Yemen?

Gingrich does to history what he does to fidelity: use it to serve his own purpose.

The comments about what Palestinians call themselves is a distraction. His real message is about certain parts of Palestinian society who are hell bent on violence as the solution. To me, personally, it's interesting that he's put it on table for all to see because responding or not responding will show how honest people are willing to be.

My guess is that most people will continue to step over the issue because they are afraid of changing the status quo. There cannot be peace if some elements of one side only knows violence. It's impossible. I've said a thousand times that Abbas could sign any peace deal tomorrow and the militants first reaction would be to attack to end the peace. They've been trained since they were infants, and they are training their own infants today, that a peace agreement would be an end to their goal of destroying Israel. That's Grigrich's more important message.

But people keep ignoring them because they don't want to face that reality. Today the West serves up Israel on a platter as a way to placate the militants and keep them out of their back yard. Go ahead and attack Israel, we'll even make life more difficult for them as a way to add an extra layer of appeasement. Just stay angry at them and don't hurt us...

There is no question that the Palestinians are an "invented people", but that is irrelevant because they claim they are a people and you have to deal with that fact. Before the mid 1960's there were no Palestinians...the Arabs living in the area aligned themselves with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt. The PLO was founded just before the 6 Day War in 1967 The concept of the modern Arab state in the area (except for Egypt, of course) was only 20 years old in the Middle East in 1948 and the people were connected by clan or tribal unity. There were Arabs, Bedouin and Druze and this division lead to their defeat in the Israeli War of Independence as well as the divisions between the Arab armies from other countries that invaded Israel. The claim that the Palestinians are actually Philistines is just silly....Palestine was a waste land under the Ottoman Empire and many people moved there when the British started to set things in order. The Christian Arab village which is my neighbor moved there lock, stock, and barrel from Lebanon in the 1930's to escape fighting going on in Lebanon and another neighboring village of Bedouin have their sources in the Sinai before they settled in Northern Israel in the late '40's..From an historical point of view, this Republican is correct, but that doesn't help with today's politics. ----from Northern israel

No matter what the muslim activist and their leftist sympathizers say, it is absurd to reserve the term "Palestinians" for muslim Arabs only.

When the UN resolution 181 was written from 1947, that propaganda term had not been invented:

"To foster cooperation among all the inhabitants of the city in their own interests as well as in order to encourage and support the peaceful development of the mutual relations between the two Palestinian peoples throughout the Holy Land;"

Note: THE TWO Palestinian people. Meaning the Jews and the muslim Arabs. Jews were correctly recognized by the UN as Palestinian people in 1947.

I thought Israel was the invented state. Anyway, it seems unlikely that the Israel-Palestine issue will ever be solved because they are unwilling to compromise. All because of different interpretations of the waffle in that book called the bible. Yes, it was a bestseller but it just goes to show how wonderful religion is........not. Telling people what to believe and telling them that others who believe differently are somehow less of a person. Ridiculous in the extreme.

serendipitous:

" I thought Israel was the invented state "

Yes, and so is "Palestine". But while the "Palestinians" have the choice between several dozen muslim Arab countries which represent their culture, the Jews have only Israel. Everwhere else, the Jewish populations are once again the targets of increasing discrimination.... and that is not even considering the muslim Arab world.

You see a balance there?

laguna

Tell me, is the Arabic spoken in Palestine the same as that spoken in Algeria or Yemen?

Why don't you go there - any of the places you mention - with all your 'liberal' delusions about peace and co-existence and get back to us.

Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyad on Saturday slammed Gingrich for belittling the Palestinians

I am starting to think better of him already.

RR

This clown, Gingrich, makes comments like this and expects to be the country's number one statesman? Really? How can anyone except his next wife take this guy seriously? What a tool.

NEWT IS SPEAKING THE TRUTH!... if you disagree, then please check your history or go back to school.. one of the two.

The Truth Matters:

" This clown, Gingrich, makes comments like this and expects to be the country's number one statesman? "

Indeed. He speaks the plain truth and expects to be the country's number one statesman? That is inded pretty much without precedent. What an outrage. Guess you have a point there.

This clown, Gingrich, makes comments like this and expects to be the country's number one statesman? Really?

Facts are facts. Why try and pretend otherwise?Gingrich at least understands real change starts with facing facts. Before '67 Israel's enemies in the Jordanian- and Egyptian-ruled areas of what is now Palestine were never referred to as anything other than Arabs. Before that if an authority got specific about them I believe they were described as (southern) Syrians. Ask older Americans about the newspaper and magazine coverage from the 60s and even early 70s (the latter I can still recall). Don't you have anything to add to the thread other than calling the man 'a tool' ?

"The fact is that today's Palestinians are immigrants from the surrounding nations! I grew up well knowing the history and origins of today's Palestinians as being from Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Christians from Greece, muslim Sherkas from Russia, muslims from Bosnia, and the Jordanians next door. My grandfather, who was a dignitary in Bethlehem, almost lost his life by Abdul Qader Al-Husseni (the leader of the Palestinian revolution) after being accused of selling land to Jews. He used to tell us that his village Beit Sahur (The Shepherds Fields) in Bethlehem County was empty before his father settled in the area with six other families. The town has now grown to 30,000 inhabitants." - Walid Shoebat, former PLO terrorist

Unreconstructed

It looks to me as if Israelis are destroying Palestine not vice versa?

How are the Israelis destroying Palestine?

@unreconstructed

real change starts with facing facts

OK, let's then have Newt face the fact that virtually the entire world, with the exception of Israel and the fringe right in America, recognizes Palestinian national identity and self-determination as a given. This same wide world understands that the violent extremism of Hamas, Hizbollah, etc should not delegitimatize realization of a Palestinian state that can live in peace with Israel.

Discourse on this issue shouldn't be hijacked by extremists like Nasrallah, Netanyahu, or Gingrich, or the small minority of people who think like them.

@Serrano

try Google........

"Try Google"

Ha ha! Do you believe everything you see on the Internet, kurisupu?

kurisupu - Try giving an answer to the question "How are the Israelis destroying Palestine?"

Facts are facts.

Coming from you, that is the most ironic statement in the history of the internet.

And even if something is true, does going around advertising it the right thing to do? Diplomacy matters. That's something you and your dear leader couldn't understand and that's why it's been so important for President Obama to rebuild our standing with the rest of the world. Cowboy diplomacy cost us the World Trade Center the Pentagon, and our standing with the rest of the world. Why do you mimic such a failed policy?

OK, let's then have Newt face the fact that virtually the entire world, with the exception of Israel and the fringe right in America, recognizes Palestinian national identity and self-determination as a given.

The fringe right? You mean like Clinton? You is funny. Clinton formalized the deal finally struck in Oslo and the Egyptian-born Arafat and the so-called Palestinians rejected it, as they have any agreement that doesn't improve their chances of destroying Israel. We now know that 9-11 was being planned as early as 1995 - still the Clinton era - which of course makes this statement from "theTruthmatters" look all the more ridiculous

Cowboy diplomacy cost us the World Trade Center the Pentagon

NG's comments are indeed NG. But he doesn't care. Let him say whatever he wants until he throws the fit and says, "Calling me NG is totally unacceptable!"

60 years of fighting. It is about time to move on, be pragmatic and sincere and make peace. Palestinians are my favorite peoples in the Middle East because they lost their country and land.

While Hamas might be highly extreme with their views, their views are just as legitimate as the far right Usraeli view. This is what democracy is about, to respect each others opinions. They did participate in a free democratic election and winning it then Usrael did not want to accept the democratic results while at the same time being the so-called champions of freedom. Double talk?

Funny how unreconstructed can pin the 9-11 attacks on President Clinton while ignoring his dear leader completely dropped the ball on a report titled "Bin Laden Determined to Stike in the U.S."

Where were you during the bush years unreconstructed? Didn't you remember any of it or are you dishonestly trying to rewrite history?

Funny how unreconstructed can pin the 9-11 attacks on President Clinton while ignoring his dear leader completely dropped the ball on a report titled "Bin Laden Determined to Stike in the U.S."

2 points:

1 - - I "pin" 9-11 on the homicidal, genocidal Mohammedans who carried it out. Gingrich is refreshingly blunt as regards "Palestine." I hope he brings up how the so-called Palestinians danced in the streets on 9-11 till Arafat's thugs realized the publicity disaster and beat the revelers.

2 - - "Dear Leader" ? I never voted ('00 or '04) for Bush to be my president, nor did i choose to suit up for him in any fashion once he became C-in-C. I mean seriously, if the guy was my "dear leader" wouldn't I, probably still young enough in 2000, have joined some branch of the armed forces?

In debate with non-Americans though I "supported" Bush, particularly on websites where the America-obsessed tried to make him some kind of representative of each and every one of us Americans. Intelligent, principled Libertarian critique of Bush and Reagan and the entire party (esp. since the noble 'Old Right' disappeared) is some of my favorite reading. But against your average sentimental leftist I will almost always side with conservatives.

You're not really here to discuss Gingrich or Palestine though are you ...

Gingrich belongs to a generation of American politicians who don't value honesty, truth and intellectualism. He is a political prostitute who"sell" their commodity to the highest bidder, which really augers very bad for America's democracy itself. Americans who supports him need to do some research.

plasticmonkey

This same wide world understands that the violent extremism of Hamas, Hizbollah, etc should not delegitimatize realization of a Palestinian state that can live in peace with Israel.

Palestinians who elected Hamas thought, rather correctly, that Hamas was a clean, honest and corruption-free movement unlike the P.A. After Hamas was elected, a real world war was declared on the small movement, including a hermetic global financial war, a harsh travel ban, and tight sea blockade on Gaza as well as the closure of all Islamic charities throughout the West Bank.

The Nazi-like witch-hunting campaign targeted every elected or unelected Islamist official in the occupied territories, including virtually all Islamist MPs, most of whom were totally innocent people.

It's sad that you would lack that bravery while pushing for the war so heavily. That, I find to be a bit hypocritical,

Most people serving the military tend to vote anti war. Ron Paul is a good example. Most of his donations come from people serving the military. If you are a war monger, should go out and fight yourself.

Gingrich has the facts on his side. The other side has only propaganda and personal smears.... which they use generally.

Big cheer for the lizard. I didn´t know he had this staying power.

Dotobock:

" 60 years of fighting. It is about time to move on, be pragmatic and sincere and make peace. Palestinians are my favorite peoples in the Middle East because they lost their country and land. "

Yes, this is the fact-free propagand that we keep hearing. Of course, the term "Palestinians" describes both Jews and Muslims (as even the UN still acknowledged in 1947), And "peace" for the current crop of "Palestinian" aka muslim-Arab leaders means the destruction of Israel.

But never let facts spoil a good slogan, eh.

It is true that those living in the Palestinian territories teach their children to hate Jews. They even have children's shows on television that teach kids that killing Jews is a good thing. It's sick. The Israeli's do not do the same sort of hate brainwashing of Palestinians or Arabs. There are also a large segment of those living in the Palestinian territories that would like to wipe Israel off the face of the map. I don't know if the concept of a Palestinian people is ancient or relatively new, but most of what Gingrich said is factual.

What do you expect? Gingerich is a hypocrite and a bigot, not to mention his involvement in various scandals that Republicans just LOVE to try and pin on Liberals (ie. Fanny Mae/Mac), and a repeated philanderer. And this is the best the GOP has to offer!! hahaha...

One thing I sort of respect about Gingerich was how hard he tried to stick to his 'no negativity' pledge during the last debate, whereas all his opponents did was attack him instead of proposing ideas of their own. Gingerich could have EASILY shot them all down (especially that idiot Bachmann).

Anyway, no one need worry about this man's bigoted remarks because he'll never be president. It's Obama again for sure in 2012, and probably another Democrat four years later if the Republican party can't get its act together, which clearly they cannot.