Palin says Obama's health care plan is 'evil'

"shivers of eager anticipation at her unelectability"

No, shivers of fear at her ability to whup Obama.

"The army is socialized"

The Army is paid for by the taxpayers. You see, our Constitution says

"provide for the common defense"

and

"promote the general welfare"

Not provide for the general welfare. There's a difference. Sarah Palin knows the difference. Obama doesn't.

This sends shivers down liberals' backs.

Palin as candidate in the next election? Yes, shivers of eager anticipation at her unelectability.

Socialism. The army is socialized. Is she dissing the troops again? She's gotta cut that out.

I'll see your hope for me and raise you "EVERY AMERICAN" sarge.

And, I hope the health care you get, partially funded by the Japanese taxpayers works out for you as well.

Maybe then you'll see the merit in it.

Lastly, it's too bad you couldn't have been there in Alaska to tell us what sarah palin was REALLY talking about when she went around "making stuff up." That could have saved us all a lot of hassle.

And I'll tell you what, I'll tell you why this infuriates me so much. I work in the health care industry. Last weekend as the wife and kids did some shopping, I went to one of these debates. Unlike most, it was pretty civil. Afterward, I watched as a butt-ton of good, but misguided people filed out of the theater, and immediately lit up a smoke.

These people will get no help from their private insurance companies when their teeth start to rot and they develop cancer. Pre-existing condition is a term I have watched far too many come to grips with. As is, prescription rationing and people trying to perform surgeries on themselves. No sh*t. There are people cutting themselves open to deal with major abscesses and cysts and they are practically begging for MRSA.

Most of these same people were 200+ pounds and under 6 foot. Do you think the insurance companies are going to be there for them? I don't. Yet they scream against and denounce the only hope they have for a healthy life for themselves and more importantly, their children (apparently Obama is also trying to give a lot of children autism by forcing them to get vaccinated). There's some real "evil" for you. The nutters spreading this crap.

Can you not see how that wouldn't enrage me? These are my country men and more importantly, human beings. Their children are our tomorrow and the insurance companies are playing with that future. For me, I had to take a stand. The line is drawn in the sand. Come at me with nonsense, I'm going to beat you over the head with reality.

Taka

"she was the worst governor of all time"

That nust be why she was one of the most, if not the most popular governor of all time.

"palin ( Palin ) has not lied"

"I'm pointing as I laugh at the ridiculousness of that monumentally ignorant statement"

I'm laughing as I wait for the proof that she lied, knowing there isn't any.

zurcronium:Great investment by the insurance industry to protect their profits while 20,000 people die a year due to lack of insurance in the USA.

Bingo! You said it, my fine friend.More excellent posting.But really the figure who DIE each year because they can't get medical care in the richest nation in the world is closer to 2 million I'd say.I've bounced said figures off of my private students and NONE of them disagree.

Obama is doing a bang-up job, and Americans from all levels of society should get down on their knees,examine the green shoots of recovery that are just sprouting up all over and praise him, especially for what he has done to improve America's standing in the world.But hey, when your predecesser is a guy like bush, the worst president of all-time, up is the only direction you can go.

I really like how Obama stoled the repubs fire AND quieted his ignorant critics in the medical profession the other day when he exposed the well-known scam of many doctors,amputating the feet of diabetics so they can pocket the 50,000 dollar fee.When I think about it now I am shocked at how many one-legged Americans or you see at airports in Detroit or Chicago.They are everywhere! Now, THAT is evil.

Anyways, we all know palin is finished.She was the worst governor ever of all time and IF shes lives on in the pubic eye will it will only be as a source of material for comedians.I am so tired of her interfering.Get out of my head, caribou Barbie!

"palin has not lied."

I'm pointing as I laugh at the ridiculousness of that monumentally ignorant statement.

Taka

Sarge at 11:54 PM JST - 14th August "Palin today defended her lies" Palin has not lied.

Let us ask a Republican Senator if she believes Palin lied......

Anchorage Daily News:

U.S. Sen. Lisa Murkowski on Tuesday told an Anchorage crowd that critics of health care reform, the summer's hottest political topic, aren't helping the debate by throwing out highly charged assertions not based in fact.

"It does us no good to incite fear in people by saying that there's these end-of-life provisions, these death panels," Murkowski, a Republican, said. "Quite honestly, I'm so offended at that terminology because it absolutely isn't (in the bill). There is no reason to gin up fear in the American public by saying things that are not included in the bill."

Sarge if something is not there and someone claims that it is there, is that a lie? For those that just want to know what is a lie, well as always I am here to help....

Unless you are a Palin fan, she lied. If you are a Palin fan, she was a bit mistaken....

In other words, Palin show her intellect by making this false statement.

See how the middle ground in America has disintegrated?

Everyone is either FOR or AGAINST this one stupid bill. It is not universal health care. It is not even a good system. Is America doomed because policy is getting written up and debated by people who do not know or even care about the issues? I think so.

The only debate on what the limits of care should be, and whether or not rationed care makes sense takes place at the kindergarten level. Someone is a communist for wanting some level of health care for everyone, or someone is a ghoul for saying there are limits to what society can provide. How can the US avoid some pitfalls that other national systems have run into? How sophisticated is the Japanese system of universal health care? Americans will never ever know. They will have to reinvent the wheel because nobody ever trusts the government.

"Palin today defended her lies"

Palin has not lied.

Gombei,

thanks for the comment. Turns out that the town hall fireworks are being created by the insurance industry PR folks, just like the teabaggers recently were all scripted and stagemanaged by rightwing reactionary forces. No doubt Palin was also just following a script. These kinda of lies were used 16 years ago when the insurance industry defeated reform under the Clinton administration. Since then insurance rates have more than doubled. Great investment by the insurance industry to protect their profits while 20,000 people die a year due to lack of insurance in the USA.

Bang on as usual, zurcronium.Your posts have really improved lately.And your use of direct quotes is impressive.

We all know that palin is finished.This is just another nail in her coffin,doubtless it will be the last.Said coffin will drag the repubs down in 2010 and 2012.

It really is too sad, and too funny also, the way the few remaining bush supporters here, who apparently WANT the 60 million people in America without health care to suffer,can come on here and defend this icky,stupid woman.She is the worst vice presidential candidate EVER, from the get-go.

Senator Harry Reid was right to call anyone who opposes President Obama's absolutely brilliant compassionate plan an evil-monger.

It just fits.

Well, anyways, as someone pointed out the so called end of life provisions were dropped, people,so palin has no case.Go shoot some moose,caribou Barbie.

I am really a Johnny come lately to this bout, but I have to chime in that I am not a huge fan of reform as it has been suggested.

It basically retains the current structure and sends the bill to the taxpayer. That is a recipe for abuse and disaster. Americans are loathe to tell someone else that their medical care is egregiously expensive, but it usually is. Ritalin for kids, Viagra for grampa, hormones for teens, liposuction and sedatives for mom, and dad gets his ulcer medicine and psycho meds, I guess. Braces and plastic surgery fit in there somewhere. Unless someone puts the brakes on spending, all that will happen is that the deep pockets will be forking out more and more for meds.

My sense is that people in Japan and Canada do not view the medical system as a huge gravy train, but Americans might. Let me take a risk and say that they will. I am very nervous about it. Would YOU want to be responsible for all of the hamburger induced diabetes, liver damage, and heart problems that Americans have inflicted upon themselves for decades? Not really. I want to be responsible for young people getting a healthy start in life.

I would have much more favored a basic, simple safety net type program including health screenings, immunization, prenatal care, and maybe some emergency care. If the programs get expanded to expensive meds and therapies, then all the goodwill will be bled out of the program before it gets a chance to help the people who just need a little help.

The issue is no longer viable for the six members of the senate. They had dropped end of life provisions from consideration entirely because of the way they could be misinterpreted and implemented incorrectly. Give Palin a break.

Palin today defended her lies about the healthcare reform needed in the USA.

Now her republican buddies are calling her nuts or worse . . .

Palin's posting came one day after Republican Sen. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska said that Palin and other critics were not helping the GOP by tossing out false claims. Portions of the Democratic health care bills "are bad enough that we don't need to be making things up," Murkowski said, invoking a phrase that Palin used in her resignation speech, when she asked the news media to "quit making things up." Murkowski said she was offended at the death panel terminology. "There is no reason to gin up fear in the American public by saying things that are not included in the bill," she said. Georgia Sen. Johnny Isakson, a Republican who co-sponsored a similar measure in the Senate, said it was "nuts" to claim the bill encourages euthanasia. And Rep. Earl Blumenauer, D-Ore., who authored the provision on end-of-life counseling, said he is astounded that Palin has not tempered her bleak descriptions of the health care bill. "It's deliberate at this point," Blumenauer said. "If she wasn't deliberately lying at the beginning, she is deliberately allowing a terrible falsehood to be spread with her name." He said the measure would block funds for counseling that presents suicide or assisted suicide as an option, calling references to death panels or euthanasia "mind-numbing."

well its a good thing, this doesnt effect me at all ;D seeing im not in america ^^ have fun americans :)

sf2k: "Yes, I am well aware the poster was referring to the US. I was being thankful to my own system which is often maligned locally (because people are fickle) but in comparison to the weirdness in the US system it is obviously serving its purpose quite well and at a cheaper per capita cost."

Well, my friend, I owe you an apology, and heartfelt at that. My apologies. I completely misunderstood your comment.

@smithinjapan, @Crimsonsil,

Yes, I am well aware the poster was referring to the US. I was being thankful to my own system which is often maligned locally (because people are fickle) but in comparison to the weirdness in the US system it is obviously serving its purpose quite well and at a cheaper per capita cost. I don't think any country with one makes money off it, they all run at a loss, but that's the price we all pay for universal availability.

I hope the US gets a real healthcare system soon, so many people are in desperate need.

Palin resigned as Alaska governor on July 26 with nearly 18 months left in her term. She cited not only the numerous ethics complaints that had been filed against her also her wish not to be a lame duck after the first-term governor decided not to seek re-election next year.

Basically, the Palins are strapped for cash and that is why she quit. She can make more money on the lecture circuit.

As only he can, John Stewart puts the health care debate and all of the right-wing fear-mongering in proper perspective, while simultaneously pointing out their rank hypocrisy. He's a multi-tasking journalistic sooper genius.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-10-2009/healther-skelter

Taka

Smith, I do not believe sf2k was trashing the Canadian system. They were saying how fortunate they were in comparison I believe.

sf2k: "@aelieth, your comment helps any Canadian who feels they pay too much."

And your comment completely ignores the fact that the poster in question is talking about the US, not Canada. I don't see one mention of Canada in his/her post; only in yours. I guess it's a bit of a subliminal thing, eh? look a little up towards a better system where the friend in question would be covered regardless of history, unlike in the US, where the system is so completely flawed and disturbing one might seriously be denied coverage simply for denying the need for change (ie. mental troubles).

palin is a case in point; if she were not well off from upcoming comedy book and were just an average Joe she would probably be denied coverage due solely on her mental imbalance.

In Europe they do in fact deny people medical care based on their political views and beliefs. They also make decisions based on weather or not its cost effective to provide a person the healthcare. This is the lovely road America wants to go down? I dont think so. Healthcare is not a right, in America hospitols allready have to provide lifesaving services to people in emergency rooms. Americans that do pay taxes will be paying another 20 percent of their income for this beastly expensive plan the American congress is trying to pass and they will only keep increasing taxes.

I should point out that not all provinces in Canada have this premium or need it at all. Ontario is the highest example for the American comparison, such as it is

@aelieth, your comment helps any Canadian who feels they pay too much.

when Ontario changed the law for an additional provincial tax of $100-$300 or so a year to help pay rising healthcare costs the population wasn't happy but it works and helps pay for services.

Reading your story helps those on gov't programs like myself who are asked to pay a bit more, seem to have a bargin in comparison. You're paying or your company is paying in a month what a citizen pays in a year here. What a tragedy

Realist. Christians and other religious nuts are evil and the biggest risk to so-called "freedom". Universal health care is a right, not a privilege, and certainly doesn't depend on a persons contribution to society. If that were so no Republicans or any of their idiot warmonger presidents would be eligible for health care! Humans are sophisticated social beings and do not function only according to the "survival of the fittest" mantra that is so popular in the USA. People who believe that show a total lack of meaningful education.

I'm so glad I'm running from America as fast as I can. :-P One more year until I get my MBA. Arrrggg, want to leave.

Healthcare in the US is total crap. Serious and total crap. I know friends denied coverage based on their "history." How is that not already "evil?" A friend of mine is 30 and has $25,000 of medical debt due to circumstances beyond her control. Insurance companies refuse to take her now because of these problems in her life and because she is high risk. She could pay a $1000 a month deductible but that's not going to help anything. Insurance can deny coverage, but the hospitals can't. Leaving the hospitals to pick up the tab, forcing insurance spikes so they can make profits off the people that do have insurance.

There morons fighting against it make me really angry. They could help and get their say in instead of fighting it tooth and nail. I'd be paying $350 a month if my workplace didn't cover my tab and I'm in great shape! Most the people I do work with are older and out of shape though, so the costs are averaged, I know my premium would only be about $150 a month if I shopped around. It's horrible, and shouldn't exist.

you want to criticize overweights people? Are you hw proportionate?

yes and yes

I'm glad Palin is on her way out of Alaska Govt, and I hope I never have to hear from her again, just disappear.

Americans always needed a Government Health care plan, Britian, Canada, Cuba, Japan, France, and many other countries have it. I used my private health insurance only twice, once to get a tooth pulled out, an emergency visit to get medicine for the flu. A few months later when my insurance company was billed, my company tells me my insurance company dropped my health care service.

Thats how crappy American private health insurance companies are, there into making money, and not spending money to cover your health needs, thats why when this government health care plan is implemented, it will totally be the end for greedy health insurance companies, because no one will want them anymore because of there pass bad service.

Palin is a liar. Who supports the provision? A: The American Medical Association, the National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization and Consumers Union are among the groups supporting the provision. AARP, the seniors' lobby, is taking out print advertisements this week that label as false the claim that the legislation will empower the government to take over life-and-death decisions from individuals.

Palin to use this type is language is premature. The senate is still reviewing over 1000 pages of this proposal for the health care change and there will be plenty of revisions on the contents and wording. This will take time.

DenDon, that's just not right on so many levels. The system is broken. Drug co.'s, doctors, and hospitals profits are soaring, people are losing jobs and losing insurance, and you want to criticize overweights people? Are you hw proportionate?

We're glad, too.

so glad i don't live in america anymore.

It's evil in the sense that it enslaves people to the Man... just like bein' on the dole.

-Not to mention that it robs Pierre to pay Henri.

Three cheers for Sarah Palin. She is a woman who speakes the truth. I agree totally with her commonets on Obamas "healthcare" ideas. They are evil, and I am glad she had the courage to speak out against Obamas madness. Under the Obama ideas, people will judged according to their contribution to society in order to qualify for healthcare. The awful fact is that the evil scourge of abortion in America, the murder of thousands of unborn babies everyday, remains untouched by Obama, who claims to be a Christian, while he instigates this evil healthcare plan. if I was American, I would be fighting this evil tooth and nail.

LatBestHope. Palin is a nut job. Forget about her. Obama's healthcare revival is another issue. America is the biggest spender in the world on healthcare, yet the availability and quality of care is very low compared to even poor countries. There is no excuse for that, and this is what I believe Obama intends to correct. Concerning the so-called doctor Ezekiel - his words expose the foolishness of pure logic. Fortunately most people are not as naive as he.

sarah palin is not a cow. That is udderly ridiculous.

Thank you. I'll be here all week (try the veal).

Taka

The only "evil" I can see is this dumb cow Palin. She ought to be put in quarantine.

DenDon( 01:51 AM ) - Good one.

Is the former governor really paranoid? Is she really that far off base calling Obamacare 'evil'?

At NRO (August 10th) Wesley Smith writes: "Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel’s brother, has suggested that we can no longer afford Hippocratic medicine, laid the intellectual groundwork for rationing based on age, and even stated that medical services “provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed.”

America is looking more shrill and incoherent by the day. Can't do math, can't evolve. Swindled themselves into massive debt, are now owned by China, and they can never pay it back unless they agree on tax hikes, service reductions and no more wars. Their kids are toast.

Really, expecting a positive outcome from the healthcare file may be too much to hope for. I do hope it works out but there is also reality to deal with and that cannot be seen there.

Palin knows as much about healthcare as she does about birth control.

Ha, she should be an expert in healthcare about teenage pregnancy. What we've seen for this 10 months is that she's done nothing but caused a huge distraction and cacophony that are quite detrimental to the public and even the vast majority of the Republican folks.

Palin knows as much about healthcare as she does about birth control.

Why anyone would care about what a failed governor of a frigid state says about anything, other than shooting moose, is amazing.

Heard Palin was turned down by clear channel, as rightwing as you can get, for a radio job as they decided she could now keep focused for more than five minutes. But that has not stopped the drug user limbaugh from polluting the airwaves in the USA.

probably not 30 degrees but you get my drift I think

@LastBestHope

Sorry, I'm not quite following again. An illegal alien wouldn't be able to get a healthcard so that would improve the situation, not make it worse. Because it would bring in taxpayers because there would be an actual reason to be legitimate. (Gives credibility to your citizenship)

Also it frees up the emergency ward for emergencies. In Ontario I can call a 1-800 number for advice from a real nurse and they setup an appointment if it's serious for me. No visit needed.

Poor American, outside of America there isn't a conspiracy on longevity rates or other important pieces of information.

Americans really do own many of the same companies that Canada (and others) use for drugs but Canadians live longer and pay 1/10th the cost for the same thing (as do others). But I've not said thanks. Thank you for underwriting all our healthcare systems.

Big Pharma wants Americans to keep paying because no one else on this planet will pay at the same rate. It's a beautiful scam. The most beautiful part is that Americans want to pay more for the same thing and will fight to pay more, which is weirdness itself.

Oh yeah, there's also the placebo effect, where a human being can heal themselves. Drives the companies batty.

Put it this way, if 40 million more Americans are on the healthcare, then the cost of that healthcare is divided by an additional 40 million, thus saving everyone big bucks. Not everyone needs 100% care at the same time y'know.

Why so few Americans are burdened with paying for everyone's healthcare must be a ridiculous and unfair burden. Why continue it?

Fitness and diet, time and time again has proven to replace the need for high end drugs anyway. Those countries, Sweden and Australia are far fitter as a matter of culture. Japan as well, lots of bikes, lots of great amazing local non-processed food. But they don't notice it, it's just a part of life, like the kids playing up and down on a 30 degree incline in Saitama while I'm huffing and puffing ;)

Where's Obama going to get the trillion dollars he needs for ObamaCare? Oh, yeah, raising taxes on everyone making over $250,000 ( or is it $200,000? ) which would include a lot of small businesses. No problem!

maybe he should raise taxes on everyone over 120kg. they are the ones who will be draining the health system because they can't stop eating crap

The naivete of certain posters here is amusing. Longevity rates for 'Americans' have long since become as political as any other metric out there and like almost any statistic they too can be manipulated to serve ideological ends.

The figures cited by some above do not reflect the fact that in comparison with every other country in the world the rate of immigration to the US skewers outcomes considerably.

Consider also the fact that Japan, Sweden, Switzerland, Australia, Canada do not host 12 to 20 million illegal aliens, like the US does.

Sail,

Which doctor are we talking about? Your doctor that's paid for by the U.S. taxpayers or your doctor that is paid for by the Japanese tax payers?

I'm trying to keep up with who is paying for your health care.

And...I'm willing to bet you a beer at The Morrigans the next time I'm in town that you did NOT actually read the plan, making your chances of going mayan somewhat slim. If I'm wrong, you may have to wait a while, but I pay my debts.

Taka

If I smack myself in the forehead one more time, I'm going to start looking like a mayan.

I did that after reading his health plan......... Hope Obama covers it when I go to the doctor.

Where's Obama going to get the trillion dollars he needs for ObamaCare? Oh, yeah, raising taxes on everyone making over $250,000 ( or is it $200,000? ) which would include a lot of small businesses. No problem!

It's nice to know that even some conservatives are starting to get off the crazy juice regarding the health care debate.

Conservative columnist David Brooks thinks rush limbaugh has gone too far in comparing President Barack Obama to hitler. Brooks was stunned by the comparison when he first saw it on NBC's Meet the Press Sunday. "I hadn't seen the rush limbaugh thing. That is insane. What he's saying is insane," said Brooks.

Brooks went on to criticize Sarah Palin for saying that health care reform would create a "death panel" to euthanize older Americans. "Again, that's crazy. The crazies are attacking the plan because it'll cut off granny, and that's simply not true. That simply is not going to happen," explained Brooks.

The crazies are attacking the plan based on falsehoods, lies and stupidity and they're fear mongering is taking a lot of innocent and naive people down with them.

Paul Krugman really spells it out well, in his recent NYT op-ed, which starts off with this little nugget, that should explain to non-Americans what many of us are up against:

At a recent town hall meeting, a man stood up and told Representative Bob Inglis to “keep your government hands off my Medicare.” The congressman, a Republican from South Carolina, tried to explain that Medicare is already a government program — but the voter, Mr. Inglis said, “wasn’t having any of it.”

Yep, try having an honest and intelligent debate with people who don't realize that they are using a system they are protesting against.

If I smack myself in the forehead one more time, I'm going to start looking like a mayan.

Taka

Actually Europe banned trans-fatty acid in foods, if that happened here and in the US that would make a lot of difference too. There's always more work to do!

we had to stop online sales and all those buses of Americans coming into Canada to buy our cheap drugs because it was interfering with the selling contract that the Pharma companies have with Canada. It put Canadian drug plans into jeopardy. Americans can't even respect their own companies for drugs, they're so desperate for help.

Here are some longevity stats. Canada isn't looking to the USA for help with healthcare. We're looking at those countries above us, not below. Those above have better diet and mobility. C'mon USA we know you can do it!

Japan: 81.25

Sweden: 80.51

Switzerland: 80.51

Australia: 80.50

Canada: 80.22

Italy: 79.81

France: 79.73

Germany: 78.80

United Kingdom: 78.54

United States: 77.85

Mexico: 75.41

China: 72.58

Iraq: 69.08

Russia: 67.08

http://longevity.about.com/od/researchandmedicine/p/lifeexpectancy.htm

Almost 90 percent of new medicines on the market today - blockbuster stuff like cholesterol-lowering statins, hypertension medications, breast cancer drugs that now greatly reduce the risk of a recurrence after surgery or chemotherapy - were developed and came to market in one country. I'll let our little brain trust here guess which one.

Which is available to those who have the right kind of health insurance and certainly not available to the 10s of millions with no insurance.

Almost 90 percent of new medicines on the market today - blockbuster stuff like cholesterol-lowering statins, hypertension medications, breast cancer drugs that now greatly reduce the risk of a recurrence after surgery or chemotherapy - were developed and came to market in one country.

I'll let our little brain trust here guess which one.

Um...yes all those Big Pharma companies originate in the USA. However Canadians live longer than Americans and pay 1/10th the cost... for the exact same drugs!!

Because we subsidize them ourselves it's cheaper between ourselves (buy in bulk)

So again, good luck with all that...

Next...

In the sense that socialism is evil, then yes ObamaCare is evil.

Is socialism inherently "evil" though? Of course not - it is the conservative American definition of it which fails to make the obvious distinction between a political system and the way in which it can be applied.

If the plan can establish a minimum standard of state-funded health care for those who cannot afford private health insurance, why would any right thinking person object, even one hung up on whether it looks too European or not.

Honestly, you should listen to yourselves sometimes

Almost 90 percent of new medicines on the market today - blockbuster stuff like cholesterol-lowering statins, hypertension medications, breast cancer drugs that now greatly reduce the risk of a recurrence after surgery or chemotherapy - were developed and came to market in one country.

I'll let our little brain trust here guess which one.

sf2k at 03:37 PM JST - 10th August We speak English but I don't understand what the problem is.

Yours is a very good question. BUt you must understand someone like Palin and the rest of the far still are upset by the defeat last year.

They are trying anything they can to try and bring President Obama down. But every time they try the look worse and worse.

Right now Palin looks like an incarnation of the Bible Lady with her use of the word.....EEEEEEvil! Only thing missing was the echo....LOL

LastBestHope, yesterday you stated that FactCheck.org was owned by George Soros. But your statement was debunked.

LastBestHope at 07:57 PM JST - 9th August It's embarrassing to read here that some people think the Soros Project know as factcheck.org is actually an objective, credible source for details about government policy and US politics in general.

Since I do not mind being corrected I was wondering if you had any proof that George Soros owns FACTCHECK.org? Or were you mistaken?

As I have asked before - if Obamacare is so good why has Congress included in the proposed legislation the provision that they and their families will not have to enroll in it?

LastBestHope at 02:32 PM JST - 10th August Some highlights from the 1000-page bill, which some Democrats chuckle about, explaining that they haven't had time to read all of it.

I am glad to see that you took time in reading the 1018 page plan. This shows a willingness to keep an eye on our government. For others who wish to take a look at the bill I have provided a link to it.

http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

The only thing that did confuse me about your post was that the Government version did not read like your post at all. Let's take Page 22 of the Bill, you mentioned;

Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure

But as I said before I read page 22 and it differs greatly from what you posted. So to get some clarity which subsection were you implying when you name the page A-E?

The reason I ask is because as I did some fact checking that line reads;

A STUDY SHOULD BE COMMISSIONED TO DETERMINE -- IN GENERAL -- HOW MANY EMPLOYERS ARE SELF-FUNDING THEIR BENEFITS AND MIGHT WANT TO SHIFT THEIR EMPLOYEES TO THE HEALTH EXCHANGE.

Funny that there is no mention of the word auditing in that bill?

BTW that is just one question that I will ask you to answer and please do show me where exactly does the word audit show up. I would love to see it on page 22 but I just can not find it.

Also of the 1018 page bill you could only find 17 lines to dispute. That alone makes me think that it is not that bad.

Oh wait a minute....You did not do your own research! You just copied and pasted from another far right wing site! Sad sad sad....

http://www.therebel.org/opinion/health/little-gems-from-the-health-care-bill/

Wow, and I thought you had done some fact checking yourself!

Man you far right types can not think for yourselves can you? Sad....

Post like yours keep showing that Palin and the rest of the far right do not have a clue about they are talking about. Lies and fabrications by the far right keep building.

Palin called Obama's plan evil, but the facts keep proving that she and the right do not know what the truth really is....

@Makkun70 , @Patrick Smash

thanks to you both. Sounds a lot like the Canadian system. We also have a drug benefit program for low income and elderly and limited dental for emergency or low income, but the rest of dental is insurance.

@LastBestHope The list is a joke. American cancer rate survival is actually pretty good. Why would this go down exactly?

@LastBestHope

do you have a point or something? I find nothing on your list incorrect. That's how a system works.

Doctor's decide with you on your treatment, not governments. The Doctor just decides which treatment to take. That works for most people.

No government is qualified to be anything more than an accountant. If you want 100% of everything then fine, pay for it. What's stopping you? Because it can't be this list.

We speak English but I don't understand what the problem is.

far be it for those of us on social medicine with our various styles the world over to explain (ad nauseam) to Americans why we live longer than they do and why families and people are not burdened with high costs of surgery and drugs.

far be it to explain that there is a real cost to these things that we do pay for, and that we do not consider profiting off sick people ethical. We just pay the real cost, not the markup prices. And yes, we operate these systems at a loss. So be it.

We think it's worth it. We decided and other democracies decided similarly to do so. But for an American to tell me that their system is great just makes them look silly. Sorry.

There are advantages and disadvantages to any system. Our covers a majority of the people for a limited healthcare. Yours covers a minority of people (rich, working) for limited healthcare. Nice one.

Your unlimited healthcare is a façade/canard/lie. You don't have unlimited healthcare because you have a "pre existing condition". Our pre existing condition is that we are citizens who are underwriting the system, and entitled to healthcare. We are are own insurance agents.

ha

So, whatever, good luck with all that then. If you want to talk specifics stop with the delusions first.

Some highlights from the 1000-page bill, which some Democrats chuckle about, explaining that they haven't had time to read all of it.

Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure

Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed

Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services

Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Health card

Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer

Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).

Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.

Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. "Seniors and the poor most affected."

Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!

Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.

Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.

Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.

Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.

Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.

Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.

Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.

Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.

If Obamacare is so good why won't members of Congress and their families be required to enroll in the system?

Sail,

O.K. I now am 100% understanding where you are coming from and won't bother you any more on the subject:

You don't want to pay for anyone else's health care but your family's. Everyone else should provide for themselves. Got it.

You want quality health care for your family. Again, totally reasonable.

So you've decided to let the Japanese tax payers pay for it by utilizing their govt. run health care.

Yep. It is becoming crystal clear where you are coming from.

Taka

Sailwind. We live in a democracy mate. At least something vaguely like one. And the majority of people in the country are having a very hard time dealing with the cost of healthcare. So a socialized program of some kind is inevitable. The cost of not having one is too high. Something I don't see you addressing here.

It costs far more to treat and advanced illness for someone without insurance than it does to pay for rational base insurance and proper health maintenance that may prevent the development of disease.

You represent a dwindling percentage of Americans still naive enough to believe that employer based insurance is the answer. Especially when more and more companies fail to provide insurance or provide coverage that is inadequate for the needs of the employees.

Fortunately for us, the tide has turned and the will of the masses will soon overrun the few who still hold on to the illusion that our society can go forward without universal health care. It is time the US left the dark ages of how we have managed health care behind and moved towards models proven in many other countries. The cost of failure is too high not to do this. And the benefit for the majority firmly outweights the fears of the few who still resist.

Things you haven't considered, Taka.

1) If the govt. is incompetent, you won't have to pay for their program. You can continue to use the Japanese govt. run health care. The key is, it's an option, making that argument, moot. No one is forcing anything on you but sarah and perhaps glenn beck.

Who is going to fund this program? Who is going to provide the staff the oversight and administration? TAXPAYERS, like heck I wont have to pay for this program. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

2) If the govt. plan doesn't work (as you believe it will be), who is going use it? And, if everyone jumps to the govt. plan, then, in order to stay relevant, the insurance companies will have to lower their prices and provide better service, or they will be gone.

The only people that will jump on this Government plan will be employers themselves and not those employers in the insurance business. They will see a golden chance to drop their employer based coverage for their employees, why not???? The Government will pick up the tab. They will save billions in added costs and that cost will be shifted to YOU and I the American taxpayer to take up the slack. I can't believe you haven't really thought this through as far as the real implications of this.

3) You're on your own with the whole palin thing. And you're going to need it.

Whatever on the Palin thing. I do think though some people could use a little professional help on their obsession with the woman. I hope their private health insurance covers the cost myself. Hate to think of a Government taxpayer run plan funding that type of care.

Dental's not free in the UK, it's subsidized, so you usually know what it's going to cost you for whatever treatment and it's not the price of the US or Canada. Same with medicine perscriptions, you have to pay, but not crazy drug company prices, a fair price..

Sail,

With every post on this subject, you make less sense. Really.

You don't like the idea of a govt. run option because it will drive the private industry out of business. You want competition. So does the president for cryin' out loud! He wants the govt. to compete as well. Have you even read any of this stuff!?!

Anyway, you don't like that for 3 reasons:

1) You think the govt. is incompetent.

2) You think the govt. will run private insurance companies out of business.

3) sarah tweeted you that she doesn't like it.

O.K. Got it.

Here's the rub. That makes zero sense.

1) If the govt. is incompetent, you won't have to pay for their program. You can continue to use the Japanese govt. run health care. The key is, it's an option, making that argument, moot. No one is forcing anything on you but sarah and perhaps glenn beck.

2) If the govt. plan doesn't work (as you believe it will be), who is going use it? And, if everyone jumps to the govt. plan, then, in order to stay relevant, the insurance companies will have to lower their prices and provide better service, or they will be gone.

Yeah, I can see why you don't like better service for less money. That freaking sucks.

3) You're on your own with the whole palin thing. And you're going to need it.

Taka

Socialized heath care makes sense people. Europe has had great results with programs that guarantee care to everyone. It is the right choice for working class people who are under strain from excessive health care costs. And it makes sense to assure well care for the public that will save on emergent and care resulting from poor health maintance.

You want to talk about saving money. This is it. You want to talk about job creation, this is it as there will need to be opportunities to support the development and deployment of such a system. Those wages come back to support our nation through taxes paid, though demand created by these workers for services and products.

As for priave insurance companies. They have bled us dry for long enough. Let them fail if they cannot develop products that make sense in a nation where people are guaranteed health care. And for those companies bleeding us on high medical charges. Again let them fail. We will replace them with socially responsible entities that provide what the majority of us need.

We have been too long living in a world that only benefits the weathly minority of Americans. The majority of us work hard, have families to raise and don't have a lot of extra money around. We fear health problems because we fear the world shattering costs they can bring. It is time for normal working people to stop living in fear and to start having good proper health care that is a civic right and that allows us to maintain the good health of our families without facing bankruptcy.

To hell with the insurance companies. The people must come first!!! And it is time for rational change to bring American in line with nations who are light years ahead of us in taking care of the health care needs of their populations!

Canada versus UK. Any Brits? Canada doesn't include dental in our healthcare system but I believe UK does. We have an insurance system or a benefit system from work (but not everyone). However I have always wanted free (as in beer) dental. How does that work or do you feel it works well?

I always laugh when American's find conspiracies. Healthcare? The conspiracy is The List which does indeed deny services. I admit it. It does. Forget why, forget reason, just incite panic. How they portray it though is such a load. This list is something YOU decide on by the way. But hey, if you don't want to save money then don't have any list. Allow 100% of every procedure.

Ironically you complain about socialism but when those same systems DON'T have 100% coverage lists (because it doesn't make economic sense and is too costly) then you say that's wrong! Awesome logic. Thus you will have a system that makes no economic sense. If I pay an extra $100 a year (more if my income is more) to keep my family my friends and myself healthy then it's worth it. The cost of citizenship isn't, and should not be free.

Think way back to 1952 US Healthcare when you paid it directly and got a bill and not through an insurance company. In the following decades, Canada decided with a similar system to split the bill with a tax system. In the US it started its insurance schemes until it has morphed into the monster it is today. By removing all those insurance companies and all those salaries you'd save the very billions you'll need to apply to the ill.

Basically your ignorance is being used by the industries who would lose their money currently made off the backs of your children and family. Fight it.

In the meantime the rates of fat obese SUV drivin' McD's on the seat Americans increase but it's your God given right. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

China will eventually tell you no more. Then you will have a list. Do you want one imposed by your creditors or one that is done within reason? Pick one.

You are opposed to the very thing that saved you from a bad tooth. A govt. run health care plan.

Nah....I support to the very thing that saved me from a bad tooth. Competition. What if Japan didn't have a Government run insurance program and I was enrolled in the Japanese version of Blue Cross / Blue Shield because my U.S Government taxpayer provided coverage sucks?

My point would be any different? Don't think so. Public funded Govt provided insurance will undercut private insurance companies. They don't have to compete they don't have to stay solvent. Once in place Govt insurance is going to kill private companies because they won't be able to compete. And good lord knows how many trillions of dollars it is going to cost all of us.

Welcome to the future nightmare and it ain't Palin.

Also Sail,

The road you seem to want to take us on Taka would even deny that to me and stuck all of us with no options at all and I'd be stuck with a mouth with rotting teeth.

No. I like the public option (option being a very important word). In the public option plan, the govt. offers an insurance plan that people can use, if they choose (making it OPTIONABLE). If you don't like it or don't trust the govt., fine, use a corporate insurance carrier.

That's your OPTION. For those that don't like that option, I think a government option should be available to them.

Does that sound "evil?" Does that sound like a plan to whack grannie? It sure doesn't to me.

Taka

Tkoind2,

I liked the "evil" reference myself. If sarah palin was a little more clever, I'd almost expect her to start screeching, "Soylent green is people!!!!"

Taka

Sail,

It's not just better thing that you had a competing option, you had a competing option you could afford. And I'm with you on that one. I loved the health care in Yokosuka. St. Joseph's hospital did good by my family. However, (and I am so excited to be the first person to use this phrase accurately in the health care debate) a vast majority of Americans don't live in Japan and therefore, cannot take advantage of that program.

I'd like to see them get health care too. You don't. I get that.

Anyway, aren't you glad you had that affordable option? Don't you think it would be swell if we could do that for your countrymen as well? That's what the "public option" is.

It's what's saving you from a bad tooth.

And seriously, I'm really sorry about that tooth, Sail. No kidding. It's got to be hell. I'm absolutely convinced of that because it seems to be affecting your reasoning.

You are opposed to the very thing that saved you from a bad tooth. A govt. run health care plan.

Amazing.

Taka

Sarah Palin. What can I say. It was shameful enough to have GWB representing my country for eight long years. But it was terribly shameful to have such a flat earther running as the vice presidential candidate along side McCain.

Now she's offering her invaluable opinion to point out that President Obama's health care proposal is "Evil." A rather telling choice of words.

Palin, we know you and your GOP friends are corporate hirelings who are out to make sure that big biz and the wealthy continue to dominate things. We know that you use the archane fears of the religious masses to your advantage by envoking words like "Evil". Well it isn't washing this time. We see you for what you are and will fight tooth and nail to see to it that you and your kind are never allowed power.

I eagerly wait to have you run against Obama in the next election. In fact I encourage all GOP followers to rally behind you and to assure that you are the candidate to face off against Obama. Because the best chance we have of seeing the GOP defeated again is selection of you for their ticket. Go Palin! ;)

Perhaps the utmost inability which is salient in the Republicans' speeches against health care reform is that they are ideologically aligned with the for-profit insurance companies but have no clue on what they actually mean.

What there is, is free-market economics that is preached to me daily. If the companies are under-cut, they'll simply fold and be replaced by better, leaner companies, right?

It would seem that my U.S Government provided health care was undercut by my Japanese Govt provided health care. Good thing, I had a competing option!!! The road you seem to want to take us on Taka would even deny that to me and stuck all of us with no options at all and I'd be stuck with a mouth with rotting teeth.

No thanks on that one.

However, a government run system - which is the goal of ObamaCare - will undercut the private sector and offer only limited and rationed care.

Undercut you say? There is no such thing, or so I've been told. What there is, is free-market economics that is preached to me daily. If the companies are under-cut, they'll simply fold and be replaced by better, leaner companies, right?

Of all the things that annoy me about conservatives, their inability to play by their own rules has to be pretty close to the top, probably right after an inability to think on their own behalf.

Taka

DenDon - "your mum and dad still pay for yours, wait till you pay taxes before you complain"

They do not. I've been paying for my own health care/insurance and taxes for the past 30 years. And you?

However, a government run system - which is the goal of ObamaCare - will undercut the private sector and offer only limited and rationed care.

You shouldn't underestimate the power of private health-care and insurance companies. They can lobby a bunch of politicians in Washington DC any time they WANT. their corporate campaign is very strategic in persuading so many politicians and patrons as well as mobilizing the lobbists to discourage the government health-care plan. In this respect, Palin and following Republicans are wrong. I can imagine that they will keep saying NO to health-care reform because they are the representatives of libertarian conservatists who are incorporating the notions of free market economy into the national politics. That's the reason why the US national health-care system has been skewed for half a century, leaving 46 millions of Americans pushing up the daises nationwide.

The majority of Americans are satisfied with their health care, especially the Americans with their health care paid for by the taxpayers. I guess all Americans should have their health care paid for by the taxpayers then. Go, ObamaCare!

your mum and dad still pay for yours, wait till you pay taxes before you complain

The majority of Americans are satisfied with their health care, especially the Americans with their health care paid for by the taxpayers. I guess all Americans should have their health care paid for by the taxpayers then. Go, ObamaCare!

Sail,

You posted a very very emotional post, that absolutely makes zero sense.

You have rationed health care. RATIONED, I TELL YOU! Your health care, again, is...rationed! I get that.

We're trying to fix that. You are against that. Why? Is it because sarah is against it too? Is it because if your health care isn't rationed, you can't complain about it being rationed? What is it? Work with me here. I'm trying to understand. You don't like your present health care but you don't want to fix it.

I'm sorry but that's not centrist or even rational.

And then you went on to say that your lifeline to health care; the one saving grace for getting treatment for you and your family....is the Japanese GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTH CARE.

Well...now my eyes just crossed.

Taka

JoeBigs:

I do have to give you credit for being one of a few Lefty's that actually try using logic in favor of a collectivist health care system. Unfortunately, your "facts" are disputable. The structure of the Canadian health care system does diretly contribute to deaths or a reduced quality of life. Here a few examples:

http://www.nriinternet.com/NRIhospitals/CANADA/2007/Brampton_Civic_Hospital-%20.htm http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2009/mar/25/health/chi-oped0325natashamar25 http://www.indenvertimes.com/2009/08/02/canadians-death-in-colorado-sure-to-stoke-health-care-debate/

People also die or live with a reduced quality of life or even in pain because services that are provided in weeks in the US takes months or are denied altogether in nations with socialist health care systems. No system is perfect but any system that seeks to limit instead of expaning indvidual choices to get the medical services they want and need is just plain wrong.

Small segment......Okay wait a minute so 46,000,000 (46 million)uninsured and an untold number who are dissatisfied with their health care to you are a small segment? LOL

That 46 million number of uninsured has to be one of the best propaganda coups that the Left has been abe to achieve in the health care debate. It is estimated that only 22 million of this number are "involuntarily" uninsured. http://www.epionline.org/studies/oneill_06-2009.pdf That is still a large number but it doesn't necessitate that the other 280 million people should pay higher taxes and endure rationed care for.

The government has decreed that these 22 million cannot be denied care when they have to have it just because they lack the money to pay for it. If the government is unable to enforce it's own laws they any new laws mandating health care for all is also useless. There is Medicaid and Medicare as well that these people can get access to.

So please tell us what you know about the "Obama" health care plan. I am dying to know what you know......Or are you just going to skip over this question because you only know what you are told?

I am no more of an expert in health care than any other average citizen but I am very much interested in learning as much as I can because what occurs this year directly affects my future health care. I don't want to die or have my quality of life degraded because of the ideology of the Democrat party necessitates that there be socialized medicine. It may be that the current health care system in the US is unsustainable, but we also know that nationalized health care systems are also going broke and kill people because it requires rationing.

Almost seemed as if you cut and pasted everything the pundits are saying...LOL Do a little of fact checking, all you are saying is what you are fed by the far right. Do you really believe that they are giving you the full story?

Please, I disagree with you okay. I am doing my best to understand the issue and philisohically I do not believe that socialism works. I could say the same about you are only being fed information by the far left.

Wait, there are no "take backs" here, Palin thinks this is EEEEEEEEEEvil......or did she say Liveeeeeee? I just do not know.....LOL

Excuse me, but now I am not allowed to think for myself and use the terms I want to use to describe socialized health care. However, I have stated that Obama's plan is evil in the sense that socialism in itself is evil and history proves that out.

Let's see go broke with the current system or give the people a chance?

You don't think that Obama's system isn't going to go broke either? Even the CBO is saying that costs continue to go up over and above the current systems costs. A trillion dollars more in debt over the next ten years on top of the deficits we already face is crazy. The Social Security system, Medicare, and Medicade are all socialist systems that have 50 to 60 trillion dollars in future financial obligations that are not funded. The day of reckoning will come some day on all of this and the Left is ignoring this and is seeking to add additional future government obligations. It is pure insanity and divorced from reality.

...he would create a “death panel” that would deny care to the neediest Americans.

Yeah, you tell him. That is what we pay HMO's and their spawn to do. What does Obama want to do make more people unemployed? Just think of all the current "death panel[s]" that would lose their jobs.

Let's see now, someone has no insurance and Sarah thinks they would have a better chance at losing life saving health care procedures under Obama where they were covered than without being covered by a health care plan.

I see once again Sara has the usual conservative bones up. The conservatives will be in the wilderness once again once Obama's plans begin to bear fruit. With the devastation of the past it will take time. However the conservatives will have new arguments when people are satisfied after the new health care proposals take effect and are a measured success unless you are without health care and then it will be more of a boon.

As far as Sarah is concerned, she just wants to keep the conservative clowns boners up long enough to collect some cash for her war chest.

Sarge said:

Obama's never even run a lemonade stand, and yet he thinks he...

Obama may not be able to run a lemonade stand but he runs the entire military for the United States of America.

Sarge said:

This sends shivers down liberals' backs.

Yeah right, whose? Not mine nor anyone I know. She is simply pathetic. Her strategy is to keep you aroused long enough to get you in a new frenzy over her next political aspiration.

The difference between Obama and Sarah is that Palin talks and Barack governs. How long is the total Sarah governed? Obama has been governing for 12 years. Before that Obama was a problem solver. Obama spent his early years solving problems that were very difficult in Chicago. Sarah was talking; she was a professional talker. He worked as a civil rights attorney in Chicago and also taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School from 1992 to 2004. I guess Obama was a professional talker also when he taught. The difference would be Obama prepared lesson plans and had to delve into the law (you know that government thing!) but Sarah just had to read from a script. Didn't Sarah go to school to be a professional talker?

Taka313: "You can't be a nutjob without the job part"

Oh, but she does have a job, Taka313 - sending shivers down your spine.

Obama's never even run a lemonade stand, and yet he thinks he can run the U.S. health care system. Incredible...

You know if Palin's staff would just do some checking for her she would stop looking sooo darn goofy. By making such claims with use of the word EEEEEeeeEEEeevil....

LastBestHope at 07:57 PM JST - 9th August It's embarrassing to read here that some people think the Soros Project know as factcheck.org is actually an objective, credible source for details about government policy and US politics in general.

It is very embarrassing when someone does not really check where he/she heard or read a fib like that. No problem I am here to help.

Check it out....

http://www.factcheck.org/about/

Take a look at the board and you will note no George Soros.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FactCheck#Spin-offs_and_other_fact-checkers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annenberg_Foundation

http://www.annenbergfoundation.org/

BTW the Annenberg foundation has nothing to do with Soros and it is the main donor to FactCheck. The board of directors consists of;

Wallis Annenberg

Lauren Bon

Gregory Annenberg Weingarten

Charles Annenberg Weingarten

No George Soros there......

It is incredible how when facts correct Republican hype you guys go after the source. Sad....

Taka and Sailwind:

What is being contemplated in the U.S. is totally different from Military Health care. Sailwind, I assume when you talk about hospital visits, you are refering to a Military Hospital or Clinic. Congress is not talking about running the hospitals, they are talking about taking over the INSURANCE industry (like in Japan). Also, like here, the system would be prone to abuse and fraud. Doctors would charge per visit so more visits, more money. People with minor injuries or conditions that have already healed would visit the hospital to keep receiving workmans compensation and bigger litigation awards. How about jsut fixing Medicare and Medicade?

Taka,

So...Your argument seems to be that the government is too incompetent to handle our health care (which completely ignores that your own health care is government run).

As a retiree from the military I do have Government run health care. Understand this very important point before I move on here. I do not expect the Government to change its current policies or whine about how unfair things are, I made my life choices and I live with them because they are my choices and thank goodness I had this option available to me living in Japan or I really would be in the hurt locker as far as my health care. I work for a private company and am not considered a Government employee with the full benefits. As far as health care I'm just a Military retiree.

As a Military retiree in Japan, the Medical side of the house does a great job. Now as far as the Dental side, and you know this to be true even though your back in the states nothing as changed, as a retiree I will be seen by a dentist only on an emergency basis. They have prioritized the care and I'm last on the totem pole. I have to literally have my teeth fall out of my mouth and be in extreme pain before they will treat me.

To put it bluntly my care is RATIONED. I didn't have a cleaning or dental check-up for darn near three years since I retired, because they won't see you for routine PREVENTATIVE CARE. About a year ago, one of my back teeth on my left side literally developed a whole the size of my pinkie tip. I went to dental on base got in the seat the dentist asked if I was in pain, I said not yet and WAS SENT HOME.

Lucky for me that I have a Japanese spouse and could QUALIFY and pay for Japanese health insurance. I pay my JAPANESE health insurance premium and have been to my Japanese dentist for over 20 visits so far this year (he's having a great time in there so far two root canals and 4 cavities filled). Thank goodness I had this option Taka or it would have been round trip air fare flights back to the States where they have enough dentists and don't have to prioritize me on the list, and good lord how much cost just on the round trip tickets that would have set me back. On top of that and time off from work and I'd be lucky to even have a job when I got back. I would have to take off a massive amount of time just to get all this dental work I had to have done. My company more then likely would said have a nice trip don't bother coming back to work.

I could go on but let me boil it down to you this way. I have rationed Government Health care......It truly sucks, I had to go another route just to get basic care (and I truly thank the maker that option was there). You want this type of Government run care for all Americans? I sure don't.

It's embarrassing to read here that some people think the Soros Project know as factcheck.org is actually an objective, credible source for details about government policy and US politics in general.

Obama's home state of Hawaii - one of the most loyal blue states in the nation - experimented with the health care plan his party now seeks to impose on America.

Even though they attempted to implement universal health care in stages (child care was the pilot program) it was a fiscal disaster, so bad that the state canceled the program after only seven months.

Read about this failed experiment at

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=309394637791942

If I wanted to I could say that the sky was orange and round brown snails kept the earth moving on it's axis. But with out any proof I maybe lying, well unless you wear a tin hate all the time.

With that it is time to correct Hworta269 with facts and figures versus his pluck it from the air tactic.

hworta269 at 01:55 PM JST - 9th August The US population is around 350 million people.

As of 2009 the U.S. population stood at 305,000,000 (305 Million)

No need in adding more people than there are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States

hworta269 at 01:55 PM JST - 9th August The 40 million uninsured is a fabricated number.

Correction again the actual number of uninsured was 47,000,000(47 million) as of 2007.

The figure of 47 million comes for the census Bureau. Out of those 47 million 79% are native born or citizens. Meaning 37,130,000 U.S. citizens are uninsured.

The remaining 9,870,000 are either uninsured legal residents or illegals (9.87 million)

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/03/uninsured-us-citizens/

hworta269 at 01:55 PM JST - 9th August There are maybe 14 million Americans that want health insurance and cannot get it.

Like I said with out facts you are pushing hot air. Where did you come up with these so called numbers? Rush help you out?

hworta269 at 01:55 PM JST - 9th August About 12 million of those 40 are illegal aliens. and another 15 million are young, healthy and chose not to pay for it.

Fact please, please provide your links. I provided mine....Guess what mine were not left wing sites either...

hworta269 at 01:55 PM JST - 9th August This is about the government nationalizing 1/6th of the American economy and thats about it. It wont be cheaper for the government to run it just like they run everything else in to the ground fiscally.

Proof, any? Please show us the money, or in this case the smoking gun!

Do not come with some far right pundit site that had it's agenda to support. Their lies can and have been shot down more than once.

BTW here is something to help you out. But be careful to read all the way to the bottom.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/06/the-real-uninsured/

You maybe surprised to find out the goooood ole Fred was stretching his numbers a bit. Do not just read the top, read what FACTCHECK found and corrected, hint, it is on the bottom of the page.

Have fun and hope to find out where you really got your information from....

Sail,

O.K. I got it. I watched your clip. The lady was very good with her soundbytes. I really liked the part where she offered a reasonable solution. Oh wait...

Anyhoo.

So...Your argument seems to be that the government is too incompetent to handle our health care (which completely ignores that your own health care is government run). O.K. You want corporations to manage how health care is run. I got it.

What I don't get is this:

The insurance companies manage how we get our health care. These same insurance corporations needed the govt. to bail them out. A.I.G. ring any bells?

So you want everything to run through the corporations that went to the very same government you think is incompetent for bail-out money because they mismanaged and squandered billions of dollars.

That's the argument you're going with.

Thank you, but no.

Taka

Taka

Taka,

Your comment if I agree with Sarah Palin on this and that I'm going to need luck in the future.

Nah, were all going to need some luck if this reform Obama is trying to shove down our throats is passed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVCdz2507u8

The lady couldn't have said it better in the video myself.

“What I see is a bureaucratic nightmare, Senator. Medicaid is broke. Medicare is broke. Social Security is broke. And you want us to believe that a government that can’t even run a Cash for Clunkers program is going to run 1/7th of our U.S. economy?”

That is were I'm at on this and guess what Taka a whole hell of a lot of centrists are right there with me.

"she is a nutjob"

That comment is nuts.

No kidding. You can't be a nut job without the "job" part.

OK, I'm teasing with that one. It was just so there.

Taka

The US population is around 350 million people. The 40 million uninsured is a fabricated number. There are maybe 14 million Americans that want health insurance and cannot get it. About 12 million of those 40 are illegal aliens. and another 15 million are young, healthy and chose not to pay for it. This is about the government nationalizing 1/6th of the American economy and thats about it. It wont be cheaper for the government to run it just like they run everything else in to the ground fiscally.

wolfpack: "Palin and the majority of the American" the majority voted democrats. They announced what they were going to do. Not the majority. Have a nice day...

hworta269,

Over 40 million people in the US don't have healthcare. The US has a little over 300,000,000 people. That is is 18 percent of the country without healthcare. It is even higher when include the who are not satisfied because their companies won't cover their conditions or drops them when they get sick.

Nearly 90 million people – about one-third of the population below the age of 65 spent a portion of either 2006 or 2007 without health coverage.

It is actually cheaper for the country if everyone was on healthcare than without it.

Obama's health care plan will rape taxes from 98 percent of Americans to give "free" health care to the 2 percent that want it but cant get it. They will ration health care out to elderly people and people deemed not productive members of society. They are going to have end of life counseling so people can learn to deal with the government letting them die. How is that not bad.

Sarah Palin is right-on with her comments on ObamaCare

no she isn't

That comment is nuts.

no it isn't

This sends shivers down liberals' backs

no it doesn't.

"there is speculation she will seek the presidency in 2012"

This sends shivers down liberals' backs.

You really think so? I seriously doubt it.

Why oh why do we have to have the health care debate through the distraction of Palin? Thanks, media.

Farmboy - Your link doesn't prove anything Palin said is not true.

Joe - Yeah, the liberals be shiverin' all right! Ha ha ha!

"she is a nutjob"

That comment is nuts.

all she needs is the certificate to prove she is a nutjob.

Sarge at 07:08 AM JST - 9th August "there is speculation she will seek the presidency in 2012" This sends shivers down liberals' backs.

Nope Sarge I do not think the liberals are shivering, I think they are on the ground laughing so hard whenever she opens her mouth!LOL

Obama's health care plan is 'evil'

Oh what tangled webs she weaves whenever her handlers do not control her.

Hey maybe next she can say that President Obama is the antichristus.. OOoOOo burn'im he's a witch!

Wolfpack at 11:33 PM JST - 8th August In the sense that socialism is evil, then yes ObamaCare is evil.

I love the term Obamacare, it is so pundit of you.....LOL

Wolfpack at 11:33 PM JST - 8th August The vast majority of American's are satisfied with their health care. Survey after survey shows this to be true.

2007 gallup took a poll of 1004 insured adults. This poll is one of the major debate points the far right is using to help defend their friends the Insurance Corps.

I love polls especially when they are conducted with only 1004 people.....LOL

Fun facts, did you know that 85.2% of Canadians reported that they were "satisified" or "very satisfied" with their health care? Much better than the 54% in America.....LOL

Below is the link...

http://www.gallup.com/poll/102934/majority-americans-satisfied-their-own-healthcare.aspx

Wolfpack at 11:33 PM JST - 8th August So instead of focusing on that small segment that are not insured or satisfied with their health care,

Small segment......Okay wait a minute so 46,000,000 (46 million)uninsured and an untold number who are dissatisfied with their health care to you are a small segment? LOL

So if you had 100 yen from each of these people what would that make you? Poor? LOL

BTW if each of these people gave you 100 yen you would be rich, so do not say it is small. That just shows where you sit.......

Wolfpack at 11:33 PM JST - 8th August Obama is going to throw the baby out with the bath water and make the health care system worse for everyone. Just so that everyone can be treated "equally" by their government, everyone will have equally bad health care (except for the political elites who will not subject themselves to the same system that they are imposing on everyone else).

So please tell us what you know about the "Obama" health care plan. I am dying to know what you know......Or are you just going to skip over this question because you only know what you are told?

Here is a link to the Obama health care plan to help you do the math for yourself instead of getting it fed to you through your ear....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090802/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_fact_check

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Health_Care_for_America_Now

Sites provided are about just the facts no spin no lobbyist hype to mush your brain. Just the facts, read and enjoy and then bango you know more rather than less and you actually have facts rather than spout what you are told.....

Wolfpack at 11:33 PM JST - 8th August How many stories about a Canadian or European patient dying while waiting three to six months for a simple medical test

I love the whoppers the far right tells it's followers. You really need to do some factchecking of your own. You maybe surprised by what you find.

As always, in an effort to help the far right here are just the facts Joe, just the facts....

http://factcheck.org/2009/08/dying-on-a-wait-list/

http://www.examiner.com/x-6665-Liberal-Examiner~y2009m7d22-Health-Care-Reform-Series-The-British-health-care-system

http://www.factcheck.org/bogus_cancer_stats_again.html

This link has facts but it is a pro universal health care post. So take it for what it is worth to you.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/francis/archive/2009/05/13/u-s-healthcare-lies-part-ii.aspx

Wolfpack at 11:33 PM JST - 8th August understand that socialiazed systems do not work?

Ah yes, the well coined far right evil word ,"Socialized Medicine" add it to any reform and voila lobbyist save the insurance racket!LOL

As always in my effort to save the far right from their lack of fact checking. I ,Super JoeBiggs, a mild mannered roving reporter/super hero fact checker, am here to help...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-payer_health_care

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialized_medicine

Wolfpack at 11:33 PM JST - 8th August It's one thing to take a small segment of the country - like veterans - and give them highly subsidized healthcare. It's unsustainable to do this on a national level - especially when the government is already running up a huge deficit/debt and funding other pension and medical programs that are underfunded to the tune of trillions of dollars. This is an insane debate we are having totally devoid of the current fiscal circumstances that the country is faced with.

Almost seemed as if you cut and pasted everything the pundits are saying...LOL

Do a little of fact checking, all you are saying is what you are fed by the far right. Do you really believe that they are giving you the full story? Or could it be that they maybe fibbing a bit?LOL

Wolfpack at 11:33 PM JST - 8th August Is ObamaCare evil? The term I would use is 'stupid' and 'detached from reality'.

Wait, there are no "take backs" here, Palin thinks this is EEEEEEEEEEvil......or did she say Liveeeeeee? I just do not know.....LOL

BTW more facts, one of the main groups that is fronting this anti-reform effort is called Americans for Prosperity and they are funded by....oh wait instead of telling I will provide you a link so you can get informed......

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Americans_for_Prosperity

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/07/canadian-straw-man/

Let's see go broke with the current system or give the people a chance?

ObamaCare is not about reform. It is about control. When we give an unspecified group of government empoyees full access to our medical records and financial accounts (for the purpose of collecting payment) and dictate treatment options to doctors, the true intent of ObamaCare becomes crystal clear. Control.

Then shouldn't you also object to the control private for-profit insurance companies have over deciding who gets health coverage? But you don't because you do not actually care about health care, it is all ideology. Speaking of which ...

The vast majority of American's are satisfied with their health care. Survey after survey shows this to be true. So instead of focusing on that small segment that are not insured or satisfied with their health care,

The over 40 million Americans without health care are not a "small segment" of American society and then include the 10s of millions who are under-insured, disqualified because of pre-existing conditions, face imminent job loss and so on.

It is ideology that allows some people to ignore the suffering of their fellow citizens. Obama's plan probably is not perfect, but what have the GOP done to address the very real health care problems faced by a significant segment of American society? Not much.

amerijap says:

The most downright evil lies in the attempts by private health insurance companies who stand between doctors and patients and mislead the neediest Americans by fibbing how bad the government's health care options are.

80%~85% of Americans are satisfied or very satisfied with their health coverage. The private sector health system is not perfect by any means - no system designed by and run by fallible human beings is. However, the private system allows you choices from over 1,300 providers nation-wide (although for some reason they are not allowed to compete across state lines). However, a government run system - which is the goal of ObamaCare - will undercut the private sector and offer only limited and rationed care.

You can slam Palin all you want with hateful comments until the cows come home but the fact is she is right. Government run systems like Britain's and like that proposed by Democrats and Obama, treat people not as individuals but apply methodologies that determine their worthiness for certain medical treatments and services. When you subject the life and well-being of human beings to a cost-benefit analysis you are treading on very ethically shaky ground. If I were a 70 year old man who needed a hip replacement and the government said no because I was too old and that there was only enough money to provide the hip replacement for people 64 and under, I would think the government was being evil towards me.

If Liberals want a socialized system, why not get together with other like minded Lefty's and create your own "private" socialized system and leave the 80% that are happy with what they have out of it.

"her claim is not true"

Which one?

"there is speculation she will seek the presidency in 2012"

This sends shivers down liberals' backs.

Back to the fear mongering tactics that lost the election I see. Some people are afraid of anything different than what they have, even if what they have is broken.

She can do whatever she wishes with all the money her husband made from his Monty Python antics and documentaries since.

Wht attack Obama , i thought her husband was very liberal, heis terribly sweet.

Former Alaska Gov Sarah Palin called President Barack Obama’s health plan “downright evil” Friday in her first online comments since leaving office, saying in a Facebook posting that he would create a “death panel” that would deny care to the neediest Americans.

The most downright evil lies in the attempts by private health insurance companies who stand between doctors and patients and mislead the neediest Americans by fibbing how bad the government's health care options are. They treat people like garbage, because they only consider making profits in the first place. Too bad most republican senates are making stamping speeches like Palin who talks non-sense like this.

Sail,

It's all good, brother.

If you want to believe that poor pitiful sarah isn't doing whatever she can to stay relevent, INCLUDING DRAGGING HER AUTISTIC CHILD INTO THE DEBATE HER OWN SELF (which will quickly be followed with her using the same child to play victim to the mean mainstream media), that is your choice. Just don't expect people to take you as seriously as they once did.

Sorry. But actions have consequences. You don't get to play "moderate" or "sensible" when you follow a radical.

Like the man once said, "buy the ticket; take the ride." So, good luck with the whole sarah thing. I truly think you're going to need it.

Taka

ObamaCare is not about reform. It is about control. When we give an unspecified group of government empoyees full access to our medical records and financial accounts (for the purpose of collecting payment) and dictate treatment options to doctors, the true intent of ObamaCare becomes crystal clear. Control.

Mrs. Palin is correct.

smithinjapan says:

"Oh my god... the 'socialism' argument again? Did you guys learn NOTHING from the last election?"

Well of course it's the "socialism" argument - that is the entire point of the policies put forth by President Obama and the Democrats in Congress. Palin and the majority of the American people that oppose their plan know that. Liberals know that as well but they don't want to say it out loud because they know it will scare people. Socialism deprives people of freedom and gives the government power over the lives of people. If you are not afraid of that - you should be.

Obama's attempts at selling his plan are so ludicrous. He makes a statement that he isn't going to take away your employer based health care or to have the government interefere between doctors and patients, but his proposals and those in Congess do exactly that. He has long been in favor of a single payer system - that is his goal and the goal of Speaker Pelosi, Barney Frank and all those that support his reform policies. He thinks that the American people are so stupid and unsophisticated that he can make flat out contradictory statements compared to what is in the actual legislation and that people will believe him and not their own eyes. It is amazing how Palin is constantly demonized by the press and by the Left because she is a strong independent woman who has been successful but doesn't believe in feminist orthodoxy. Look, her baby has a birth defect and she still loves him and wants the child to have a happy life - get over it already!

Just so that everyone can be treated "equally" by their government

Great post Wolfpack. Everyone gets poor healthcare in the name of equality. Palin is 100% correct.

Well for some odd reason the WHO has rated Japan higher than the United States for it's health system.

The problem is, these ratings are totally subjective. It's like the "highest standard of living" or "best place for chidren" ratings... it doesn't really mean much, other than an indication of the author's biases. The WHO considers universal coverage desirable and thus awards points accordingly. Of course the US will come in lower.

The USA offers phenominal healthcare at overinflated prices. No rationing (in fact, we have an issue with over-care), but a lot of people who can't afford insurance and a lot of insurance companies that will try to cheat you out of what is owed to you. Clearly we are in serious need for reform, but you can say the same about virtually every country's health care system; we simply have a different set of problems.

This is just sad.

Perhaps it's just me, but it seems like sarah palin is really desperate to stay in the headlines and is willing to play engineer on the crazy train to get them.

I hope someone is able to save her from herself, if it's not already too late.

Taka

Agreed Taka,

The media has just shunned the lady for so long. I hope her pathetic attempts to stay relevant are in vain myself also.

Well Palin has started vomiting. Would you think that she'd come out any differently from her Alaskian hold-up? She's immediately trying to grab hold of the conservative base's attention.

She got it. But she'd say it was horrible even if it was the best plan ever layed out. Democrats and Obama are evil to her. < :-)

This is just sad.

Perhaps it's just me, but it seems like sarah palin is really desperate to stay in the headlines and is willing to play engineer on the crazy train to get them.

I hope someone is able to save her from herself, if it's not already too late.

Taka

Damn that Sarah Palin

No cure for giving me cooties in her health plan.

I hope Shatner does another impression of what palin says here... his rendition of her cowardice -- err... resignation speech was hilarious! Almost made it understandable, too! Of course, that means dredging it out of the absolute lowest depths of intellect, and he did a good job of translating moron to English, but it would still be a funny attempt.

"The America I know and love...

beat trumpet with mute in background

...is not one...

.... the one...

...in which my parents...

or my baby...

beat soft drumming, baby scream muted in background

...with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s ‘death panel’

symbol crash

...so his bureaucrats can decide...

...based on a subjective judgment of their ‘level of productivity in society,’

a long pause

...whether they are worthy of health care,”

"Such a system

beat

is downright evil,”

The funniest part about it all is that she says her baby (her daughter's, in all likelihood) would be standing in front of a 'death panel' because it is 'inactive', when in reality it would be guaranteed health care under Obama's plan whereas it would NOT be with the current system.

OH GOD THE COMMIES ARE COMING!!! I CAN SEE THEM FROM MY HOUSE!!!

Heh, Sarah JT Palin.

Everybody else in the world has long forgotten this comedian.

Oh my god... the 'socialism' argument again? Did you guys learn NOTHING from the last election?

I suppose it's a good thing, though. You have one of the stupidest women in US politics -- errr.... before she betrayed and spit on believers like sarge and walked out on them -- saying that Obama's plan to help people is 'evil' and that people will have to stand in front of a 'death panel' instead of being turned away because they are uninsured (I know... it's hard to type seriously!) and, then morons saying that wanting to have all Americans healthy is akin to the 'Red threat', and you're guaranteed the White House for at least another four years.

Seriously, this woman is one of the stupidest human beings with a microphone. That people choose to believe in what she says only shows there are a few lower than she.

sarge: "What a stupid comment."

Nah... a cut-n'-paste retort like that shows that you haven't grown much in your latter teens, my young friend. You'll get there. Of course, by the time you can finally add something objective and more profound than 'no, she's not' you'll have to admit that Obama has put a stop to the free fall of the economy and started reversing the recession with his policies. Oh wait, he's done that.... so where's your originality?

In the sense that socialism is evil, then yes ObamaCare is evil. The vast majority of American's are satisfied with their health care. Survey after survey shows this to be true. So instead of focusing on that small segment that are not insured or satisfied with their health care, Obama is going to throw the baby out with the bath water and make the health care system worse for everyone. Just so that everyone can be treated "equally" by their government, everyone will have equally bad health care (except for the political elites who will not subject themselves to the same system that they are imposing on everyone else). How many stories about a Canadian or European patient dying while waiting three to six months for a simple medical test is it going to take for people to understand that socialiazed systems do not work? It's one thing to take a small segment of the country - like veterans - and give them highly subsidized healthcare. It's unsustainable to do this on a national level - especially when the government is already running up a huge deficit/debt and funding other pension and medical programs that are underfunded to the tune of trillions of dollars. This is an insane debate we are having totally devoid of the current fiscal circumstances that the country is faced with. Is ObamaCare evil? The term I would use is 'stupid' and 'detached from reality'.

"Evil"? THIS person is the supposed next "Face of the Republican Party"? She's a moron.

“The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s ‘death panel’ so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their ‘level of productivity in society,’ whether they are worthy of health care,”

So, apparently, the America Palin seems to know and love is one where parents and children with Down's Syndrome have stand in front of *profit-driven "health maintenance organization" bureaucrats representing the interests of stock holders by making cost-benefit judgements of whether people are worthy of treatment. Yeah, that's just so much better.

Moron. Moron. Moron. But hey, she Twitters regularly.

How many 10s of millions of American citizens don't have health insurance? How many millions more are under insured? Most people think the present system sucks, but what has the GOP done to help their fellow citizens? They had 8 years in office ... now they cry because someone else is doing what they could not do. You had your chance and you squandered it.

Sarah Palin is right-on with her comments on ObamaCare.

"What a stupid woman"

What a stupid comment.

How on earth do people in public office get that far? What does the number of 700 thousand supporters tell us about the intelligence of the electorate?

She can say what she wants, liberals are also saying that people who disagree with this health care plan should not have their freedom of speech.

... pure, concentrated evil?

BTW I find it funny that I haven't seen any mention of this in the news, but here I read it in JT. It's either a conspiracy or - gasp - nobody cares.

Palin is corrupt, uses public funds for personal gains, and needs to shut up more. I could care less about Obama, but Republicans should be ashamed. They're not even conservative anymore.

Unfortunately, there are quite a few stupid people who gravitate to her. She says the simple illogical things that people want hear. Just like Bush did. You are perfect, America is perfect and there is nothing that needs changing. While she is talking nonsense she is at the same time screwing people over. Just like her quiting her office. She only cares about herself and not Alaska or America. She Bush in a skirt.

Wow... this woman seriously can't but open her mouth to sound stupid.

Eeeevil... the fru-it of the deveeel. Eeeevil.

What a stupid woman. She is seriously amongst the dumbest public figures I have ever heard of in my life. I feel quite sorry for those who bought into anything this woman pretended to represent before she walked out on them (and they still believe).

Anyway, this woman is in no place to offer any kind of political advice, so ultimately her opinion doesn't matter one iota.