world

France recalls ambassadors to U.S., Australia over sub deal

32 Comments
By SYLVIE CORBET

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

© Copyright 2021 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without permission.

©2021 GPlusMedia Inc.

32 Comments

Comments have been disabled You can no longer respond to this thread.

Burgundy: No wrong, About the engines, non proliferation agreement and about informing the French. Australia could not buy the French Nuclear Sub because of the non proliferation agreement because you need a civil nuclear industry which is not allow in the non proliferation agreement. The class of sub the USA is offering is the Columbia which has a full life core which mean the sub can only last 40 odd years the same life of the reactor. So no need for a civil nuclear industry. About the French deal, it has been 7 years since awarded the contract with the Australian steel, Australia built agreement. Yet nothing has been done their end. Australia has the man power and shipyard waiting to start for the last 3 years. At the start of the year the French were told to get their finger out and have shown no moment at all. The French have been stalling hoping Australia would change it mind about Australia steel and Australian built agreement. Has for Sub training the crews to man these sub. They be place on USA operating subs learning the ropes before the delivery of the first unit of 8.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

There is an 18 period starting soon to DECIDE which submarine model/class to buy.

It's a plan to have a plan.

PM Morrison way out of his depth...pun intended.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

He also compared Biden's move to those of Trump under his "America First" doctrine.

Hahaha! All US Presidents will always insists on an 'America First Doctrine'!

Trump was just honest to say it loudly in front of everybody while Biden is whisperin same mantra behind Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian's and President Emmanuel Macron's da-kine innocent behinds! Lol!

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

The French Australian agreement was signed in 2016 but France had not started construction of a single sub.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Burgundy

Before doing primary French bashing, you had better to check the news.

I didn't think I was French bashing?

Australia asked for diesel engined subs, because most of the countries around don’t want nuclear stuffs.

They were offered better subs by America. Would France sell their nuclear subs?

Did you hear of nuclear non proliferation agreement ?

That only applies to nuclear weapons, not nuclear power. France produces 70% of its power from nuclear energy

Because of this move, South Korea May start nuclear subs ( good luck for Japan), Russia or China May start to sell nuclear subs to Pakistan, Iran and what will you do ?

I doubt they can afford them.

Re. US and UK nuclear sub technology, they are using highly enriched uranium. By the way not the case of China and France. What will you do in case of sub accident?

Yes.

Then, how long will it take to Australia to get and master nuclear subs ? Do you think China will wait for the nuclear subs to be ready ?

I think 10-15 years. But China will build nuclear subs anyway.

This is the old traditional Anglo Saxon arrogance at work….

No, and includes the UK with its French blood. Australia is a very large contingent and needs long-range subs to help protect it.

Australia informed France 2 hours before the announcement !!!

How would a longer delay change anything?

Good luck to Australia for economical treaty with EU ! Same for business with China

The Chinese trade was already suffering but don't expect any changes with the EU.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Ossan and zichi and others what do you know about this deal ???

Before doing primary French bashing, you had better to check the news.

Australia asked for diesel engined subs, because most of the countries around don’t want nuclear stuffs.

Did you hear of nuclear non proliferation agreement ?

Because of this move, South Korea May start nuclear subs ( good luck for Japan), Russia or China May start to sell nuclear subs to Pakistan, Iran and what will you do ?

Re. US and UK nuclear sub technology, they are using highly enriched uranium. By the way not the case of China and France. What will you do in case of sub accident?

Then, how long will it take to Australia to get and master nuclear subs ? Do you think China will wait for the nuclear subs to be ready ?

This is the old traditional Anglo Saxon arrogance at work….

Australia informed France 2 hours before the announcement !!!

Good luck to Australia for economical treaty with EU ! Same for business with China

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

France is mad because they lost a 90 billion submarine contract to the US.

Its that simple and that’s why no other countries in Europe care about this..

4 ( +7 / -3 )

America has a very long history of stubbing allies in the back!!!

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

France is the only European country with subs.

Last time I was out and about, Germany, Denmark, and Poland all had submarines. Pretty sure about Poland; Poland was supposed to buy some Swedish subs, but they may not have been delivered yet.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

This reminds me of 2015 when the French decided not to sell those Mistral naval vessels to Russia. At least they paid the Russians back their money.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

 "directly affecting the vision we have of our alliances, of our partnerships and of the importance of the Indo-Pacific for Europe."

Therein lies a huge difference in perception. The importance of the Indo-Pacific for Australia and other Pacific nations. as opposed to the EU on the other side of the planet. France has a couple of not exactly significant islands in the Pacific while it's the front yard for other nations. While they certainly got burned economically, in the larger picture, they ought to ferme their collective bouches.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

It was a French deal, not an EU one.

France is the only European country with subs.

the UK is still geographically part of Europe

Like Russia. The subs are for them.

and a NATO member.

NATO still exist ?

But as the Aussies informed the French before the new pact was announced, 

Scott Morrison called Macron just to say "switch off the telly, they'll announce a new treaty

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

The French are rightly pissed over this backstabbing by The U. S. and Australia. That said, why again does Australia even need subs in the first place? To help shut down trade routes they greatly benefit from? To protect trade routes no one is threatening? To ward off an invasion of Maoris? To feel self-important?

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

Australian Politician have lie through their teeth on this Sub build to the Australian voters. Japan where first offered the contract if they could use Australia Steel and build in Australia. Japan decline that is the reason you not hearing any comments from Japan.

I still can not see the USA building these subs in Australia under the same request without building a steel mill capable of producing the combination sheet size and steel type required for the outer shell which Australia lacks. Plus this steel mill and shipyard has to be built on a deep water port. And all the politician who been involved know this. Or all the components made oversea and built in Australia which would triple the cost. It cost the USA themselves 9.15 billion per unit for the same Class (Columbia) Australia is getting. This last option will cost the sitting Australia government office once known.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

M3, yes we don't have all the facts.

Or the contractual nuance.

However the contractual legalistic tos and fros were present from the onset.

Naval Group had lost control of the budget six month into the contact.

Th French government have refrained from including UK in its silly huffing and puffing.

I suggest that will come later. NI protocol....

Macron was, the anyone but Le Pen vote. And hell, what a mess he has made in government.

It is truly ironic that Le Drian compares Joe Biden to Trump, Le Drain should perhaps look closer to home

5 ( +8 / -3 )

This is an astonishing overreaction, a Macron hissy fit to end all his hissy fits.

It's impossible to say whether it's an overreaction or not because we don't know what sort of informal deals have been struck behind the scenes. I imagine there's been alot of horse-trading on sanctions support and other policies, all of which have been costly for France. Their outrage may be entirely justified.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

the U.S., Australia and Britain shunned France in creating a new Indo-Pacific security arrangement.

Why ?

As France is an ally seems strange to not involve then in the treaty. There are France territories in the area.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

The Military-Industrial Complex is big business.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

French defence contractors are as closely allied to the state as Chinese ones. But as the Aussies informed the French before the new pact was announced, the withdrawal of ambassadors and associated rhetoric is overly dramatic and rather embarrassing.

It doesn't undermine US/European ties. It was a French deal, not an EU one. And although not in the EU anymore, the UK is still geographically part of Europe and a NATO member.

There is no hidden agenda with regard to the UK's position. If there is a few quid in it, Johnson will give it the nod.

Perhaps someone can make Macron a nice cup of tea. That always helps.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

France was looking for a way to cover its own shortcomings over the deal. Biden gave them the excuse they needed. They never wanted to build French subs in Australia.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

Only France is involved.

Even worse

No other country has commented. Trump harmed Europe much more and all the European leaders were happy to see his backside.

Hmmm, not so sure about that one, especially now.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

Macron has singlehandedly made a drama out of a crisis.

To suggest Joe Biden has somehow morphed into Donald Trump is silly, childish.

-1 ( +10 / -11 )

Macron faces reelection next year.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

bass4funk

Over the years you posted hundreds of comments that you could not care less about Europe. Now you care?

I don’t care. I’m just laughing and shaking my head, but I’m not surprised, but I am surprised that European leaders are surprised with this guy and his administration.

"European Leaders?"

Only France is involved. No other country has commented. Trump harmed Europe much more and all the European leaders were happy to see his backside.

The deal is actually worth $60 billion, not $100 billion. France was stalling on the deal because the Australians want the sub constructed there but not the French.

5 ( +13 / -8 )

Oh dear, Macron having le tantrum :-)

1 ( +10 / -9 )

This is an astonishing overreaction, a Macron hissy fit to end all his hissy fits.

The contract to supply subs, amounts to a Renault with square wheels, was always sooner or later going to head south.

No country with a smidgen of common sense recalls ambassadors because they have been called out.

Macron is frankly a fool.

-2 ( +12 / -14 )

The EU have a total ban from 2030 and penalties regarding fossil fuelled products and on Countries that are seen not complying with 2050 carbon neutral. So Australia were put in a position to get rid of those fossil fuelled French Subs. Just complying. Very lucky for the French seeing nothing has been built since the start of the contract in 2016 and will be compensated for doing nothing but stalling the build. The Japanese know that Subs can not be built in Australia without building mayor infrastructure and transferring of skilled artisans. The French have been stalling and trying to overturn the building in Australia decision and been trying to renege on the contract since the start of the year quoting COVID19 for delays in starting constructing. Yes it is a stab in the back but a well earned one.

1 ( +10 / -9 )

Who wants a diesel when you can by an electric? Nuclear is much better.

4 ( +12 / -8 )

France is only a single country in Europe. The French are upset over the cancellation of the Australia sub order worth $100 billion. But France would not sell its nuclear sub technology to Australia. The French ambassador to Britain wasn't withdrawn.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

And Europe thought Biden would bring ease, calm and unity to Europe. Well, that blew up and fast.

-3 ( +15 / -18 )

Sacré bleu!!!

Wait! Could this have anything to do with the fact that Naval Group, a French-law Public Limited Company, is partially owned (62.25% as of the end of CY 2020) by the French State? (https://www.naval-group.com/en/governance-26).

Nah!

Back to Sacré bleu!!!

2 ( +10 / -8 )

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites