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Pearl Harbor marks 65th anniversary of WWII's end

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The other day I went out with some Japanese friend from Kyushu area who was born just near the end of WWII. He gave me the once over about all the bad things USA did to Japan and how Japan was out on a campaign to free Asia from US Imperialism, and bombing Pearl Harbor was another part of the trap set up by the Imperialists to draw sentiment against Japan. When I voiced other opinion, it got a bit excitable. Anyone else ever experience such a thing?

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THE THING IS : USA has learned NOTHING in the last 65 years. Since WWII until now, there has NOT been a time that USA has not been involved in a War !!!!! So, WHO really is the imperialistic warmonger ??

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semperfi, you may be right. Even in bold.

As an aside, this is not the 70th, or even the 65th anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor. It's the 65th anniversary of the end of the US Pacific war, which just happened to have started with the Pearl Harbor misadventure.

Are we not in danger of spreading our celebrations too thinly? Should we not concentrate more on the big ones?

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isthistheend, the views I generally get from my Japanese friends are somewhat different, but your friend was right.

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Bottom line, a ceremony was held to mark the end of a terrible war. The US kept a fine line of not trying to be in it at the same time helping out their allies. Revisionist histroy aside, the US was not just out to gain territory and build an empire in Asia.

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isthistheend, when I face such people, I caution them that, if Japan had won, they themselves would probably still be fighting in China or SE Asia. That generally gives them pause.

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I've run into more than a few young Japanese who insist the attack on Pearl Harbor was a RETALIATION for the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki! I'm sure that's a result of thier fine nationalist-approved testbooks and government officials who refuse to remove thier heads from thier sphincters to see the light of history!

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@NukinFutz, more likely it's the result of someone trying to get a rise out of you.

@nandakandamanda, This observance was about the end of WWII for the Americans. The only reason it was held in Pearl Harbor was because that is where the U.S.S. Missouri is berthed.

@semperfi, interesting. And here I could have SWORN my entire naval enlistment from 1978 to 1984 happened during peacetime. I guess you know better than I, huh?

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NuckinFutz, you have it backwards. I am sure the youngsters know the Japanese military attack on a pure military target of Pearl Harbor came first before the military attack upon defenseless civilian men, women and children of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The American military at Pearl had a chance to defend themselves. The Americans killed about 10 civilians for each sailor and soldier killed at Pearl in just these 2 attacks. If all of the Japanese civilians are considered, it comes out more like 100 to 1.

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Opps, they killed 100 to 1 for each airman, sailor and soldier killed at Pearl at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If all of Japans civilians are included in their "revenge" attacks it comes out to over 1000 civilians for each one. Try to picture the scene of 1000 victims standing behind each of the military dead of Pearl. The thirsty ground got its share of the blood of innocents and it is still not enough for the Americans. I have talked to older Americans and they can not get over it.

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@isthistheend, It's amazing how far people will go to rationalize their point of view. You should ask your Japanese friend about what bad things the U.S. did to Japan BEFORE Japan started their program of aggression against the surrounding countries. The "bad things" didn't start until Japan had already gotten aggressive.

and bombing Pearl Harbor was another part of the trap set up by the Imperialists to draw sentiment against Japan.

Hehehee! I love it when people try to play this card. So the U.S. somehow duped Japan into initiating an attack on THEM in order to solidify sentiment against Japan. The next time someone uses that excuse, re-phrase it for them and see if they still want to use it: "So Japan was just the U.S.' marionette, diving into ANOTHER war at the twich of a string?"

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When is Ozawa going to Pearl Harbor and admit that his countrymen were simple-minded in believing they could destroy the United States?

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Sarge - - I am surprised at you ! Anyone with the tiniest sense of history will know that Japanese are anything but simple minded . . .

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Fadamor . . look, although USA was not involved in an epic struggle - - USA military fingers were deep in Africa .. Congo, Chad, for instance - - . . . . There was plenty of military involvement in the Middle East from planes were shot arbitrarly down by US aircraft to the deployment of several thousands Marines in Lebanon under Reagans first first . Tthen in Central America . . . there were various levels of USA military /CIA involvement in Honduras, Nicaragua, El Salvador . . . . . . USA cannot live without being involved in a conflict, even in oeace time . :) [

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Sarge, Japan never intended to destroy America but to beat them back across the Pacific to accept a peace treaty imposed upon them. They made the big mistake with the delivering of the declaration of war. I do not thing much would of changed it if arrived a day later. The Americans knew war with Japan was coming from the message interceptions. If war had been declared the 6th of December, America would of lost the propaganda of a sneak attack. Though they might of called it that anyway, just to whip up the anti-Japanese sentiment.

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Yuri I'm just wondering if you ever get tired of your same 'ole same 'ole. Let's just end this once and for all. The great and noble Japanese were innocently minding their own business when a few aircraft carriers of the Imperial Japanese fleet got blown way off course. They sent out aircraft to discover their location and due to faulty manufacturing, all of their bombs and torpedoes were accidentally released, sinking much of the US Pacific fleet. Oh, and the rounds went off in the wing guns as well, accidentally discharging bullets. Unfortunately some American sailors and a few civilians jumped in the way of them. In it's lost wanderings the Japanese fleet moved across the Pacific, and the Japanese Army was sent to find them. They too became lost and moved from island to island trying to find their way. They stopped off at Bataan, and asked all of the US GIs there to come to a big party they were having. The Americans were very clumsy, and many accidentally fell on bayonets or swords and were killed or beheaded.

In a desperate attempt to find their way home, the Japanese Army moved into China to ask for help. Mysteriously, hundreds of thousands of Chinese civilians either jumped onto the bayonets being held out by friendly Japanese soldiers as greeting of welcome, or jumped in front of the bullets and bombs the Japanese troops fired in celebration of meeting their new friends. Some Chinese women were so overtaken they removed their clothes and threw themselves at the stunned and modest Japanese. The people of the Philippines welcomed the Japanese soldiers with open arms, then put themselves in camps and bombed Manila to show the Japanese how happy they were to see them.

Hey, I guess then we can say that the kindly Americans provided the bright beacons of Fat Man and Little Boy to show the lost Japanese the way home.

Come on.

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tigermoth, you are very funny. No the Japanese were the aggressors in WWII. There is no doubt about that and nobody I know will dispute it. Sure they had excuses like a lack of raw materials in the home islands, intervening in a civil war, and the American embargo. At Pearl the Americans where firing shells in haste. In fact many of these shells were falling onto the civilians that accounted for the majority of the 68 dead. There was an American report confirming this in 1944. RightThing, while the nukes may have help end the war, they set up a justification for use of them in the future. All one needs is a "righteous justification".

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I wouldn't dispute the civilian thing Yuri - those gunners were likely very inexperienced.

I think we should just sum it all up as the bombs were a horrible end to a horrible war, and move on. While I think the truth about the war should be a standard taught by all nations in all schools (if we didn't learn a lesson from this, then it's a slap in the face to all who died). Forget the apologizing and blaming by both sides. It's history, over and done. We should learn to remember the dead and their sacrifices without pointing fingers and arguing about it. Most of us weren't even alive when it happened.

It's funny how perceptions and ideas of people can change so quickly. My father was drafted for the Korean war and was sent to Japan to train. He absolutely loved the Japanese people and thought they were the greatest folks on earth - this just a mere five years after (well, more like almost eight when he was drafted) they had been the 'dreaded Japs'. There is a big lesson in that.

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Pearl Harbor will remain a symbol in the hearts and minds of all Americans for many a generation and longer. In contrast, Japan tries to forget. A young visiting Japanese businessman of ours visited us on Dec. 7 and didn't realize Dec. 7 was the anniversay of the attack.

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A young visiting Japanese businessman of ours visited us on Dec. 7 and didn't realize Dec. 7 was the anniversay of the attack.

The attack and start of the war with the US is recalled on December 8 in Japan.

Pearl Harbor will remain a symbol in the hearts and minds of all Americans for many a generation and longer. In contrast, Japan tries to forget

Like 9/11, certain dates stick out because of their ability to be recalled in a spirit of self-righteous victimhood. There was far more carnage and death in the US Civil War, but nobody remembers any of the key dates. The war itself was a massive internal failure of the United States and therefore better left without yearly national reminders.

Japan will not forget the dates of Hiroshima and Nagasaki for the same reason.

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kp123, I think most Japanese do not want to thing about WWII. It was a time of much pain and suffering. It is sort of like not wanting to remember a stay in the hospital. We want to remember good not bad things. I will say this, decisions are relevant to when they were made. President Truman made the decision to use the bombs in order to end the war. I am sure he did not know all of the effects of the weapons. It was not a time of instant communications like today. So far all of their efforts failed to end the war and it look like (to them) it would go on until all the Japanese were dead or captured. He did not know how close they were to collapsing completely or their efforts to bring a peace. It is hard to be critical if you put yourself in his shoes. My criticism is of people TODAY using what we know TODAY. We know all about the awful effects of these weapons. The Americans at that time were appalled as well but they did not learn to after.It must of been very hard on President Truman discovering after the results of his orders.

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Yabits has it correct. As Japan is on the other side of the International Date Line, all their historical records will (correctly) show that the attack on Pearl Harbor occurred on December 8th.

If Japan had attacked after the declaration had been given, most of the fleet at Pearl would have been dispersed by the time Japanese Carrier Group One launched their planes. Search flights would have been doubled and the likelihood of the the carrier group being detected would have increased significantly. If they were going to attack, Japan HAD to attack with the U.S. unawares. The attack guaranteed the U.S. would enter into a war with Japan where up until then the U.S. was satified with just an embargo. So WHOSE fault is it that Hiroshima and Nagasaki was nuked?

We're celebrating the end of a war that probably would have gone on at least another year had those weapons not been used.

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Fadamor, how do you explain the American Army Air Corps getting caught on the ground at Clark Field? It is my understanding Hawaii was not considered a probable target of Japanese attack. The battleships of Pearl Harbor were built before WWI and were not able to do much above 20 knots. Not sure if they were going to be out at sea or if it really mattered. The day or the big guns was over. Not long after Pearl the Japanese caught both the Prince of Whales and Repulse at sea and sunk them with air power. However if there were less Battleships in Harbor the port itself would of been the main target. Losing the oil storage there would of forced the fleet back to the west coast. However I do not believe the Americans would of been ready even if they had 24 hours of warning. Speculate this, what would of happened if Pearl Harbor was destroyed as a base. What use would the America fleet be in defending Hawaii from the west coast.

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I have one more anecdote : in the early 70's I and my American business friend visited Nagasaki on August 9 after seeing a factory in Miyazaki Pref. (A tortuously long trip in those days). The entire city was commemorating a day of peace during the anniversary of the day the atomic was dropped. He felt very uncomfortable about it and stayed in his hotel room for the remainder of that day. We returned to the States the following week and stopped off at Honolulu for a few days and visited the USS Arizona at Pearl Harbour. Over half of the visitors in our group visiting the shrine were Japanese tourists. It was a solemn and quiet occasion for all.

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