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Pentagon expects to soon ban recruiting transgender people

46 Comments
By ROBERT BURNS

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So the man who refused to serve is standing in the way of those willing to lay their lives on the line to protect Trump's way of life. Reprehensible.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

Where would Transgender people sleep on board ships, or do we have to revamp all the ships and a variety of operating procedures just for them?

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

Burning BushToday  07:19 am JST

Where would Transgender people sleep on board ships, 

Wherever people of their gender sleep. It's not rocket science.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Wherever people of their gender sleep. It's not rocket science.

And what if female service members object to having a person who is physically a man sleep in their quarters. Perhaps some of them would feel a little awkward changing amongst a man and also looking at his "item" as he changes in their presence?

I think each ship would have to be retrofitted with extra sleeping quarters.

-11 ( +2 / -13 )

Burning BushToday  07:32 am JST

And what if female service members object to having a person who is physically a man sleep in their quarters.

Then their superior officer needs to arrange training so that they can understand what being transgender is and is not. And then they need to get over it, because being in the military is not about choosing your bunk-mates for a fun slumber party, it's about serving your nation.

Which incidentally is how every single soldier I've ever heard weigh in on this topic sees things. Every one of them has not cared the least about what the plumbing status of their fellow soldiers is - when lives are potentially on the line, they have more important things to worry about. It seems very much that this Maud Flanders-style hand-wringing "But what if she has a penis?!" anxiety is almost exclusively coming from people who haven't served in the military, haven't sacrificed for their country, and are just anxious about their antiquated understanding of gender being challenged. Which if you actually think about it is a terrible disrespect for our troops.

Perhaps some of them would feel a little awkward changing amongst a man and also looking at his "item" as he changes in their presence?

Seriously? Just what kind of wilting daisies do you think women in the service are? "Oh mercy me, I accidentally caught a glimpse of her parts while we were getting dressed today and I do declare, I have the vapors! Why I'll never be able to put my life in deadly danger in service to my fellow soldiers and my country with this memory of a schlong in my head!"

7 ( +10 / -3 )

However you look at it, a person who is transgender is not facing reality. Not an ideal qualification for someone in active service. Mind you, there are a lot of hetero's in the armed forces who have trouble with reality in other ways too.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

Transgenders are pretty easy to vilify by the right since their numbers are so small, and the politicians get a big boost in support from the religious nutballs. Now we have bathroom bans and military bans to "solve a problem" that people never even knew existed until a right wing politician told them it was.

Among those who have cheered Trump's tweet, Elaine Donnelly said the president is halting "a massive social experiment."

This is the main emotional talking point the right wing uses. Expect cut and paste responses saying the same from their base here and elsewhere. It's an absolutely meaningless phrase.

"If you are willing to risk your life for our country and you can do the job, you should be able to serve — no matter your gender identity or sexual orientation," she said Thursday. "Anything else is not just discriminatory, it is disruptive to our military and it is counterproductive to our national security."

Yep. But on the other hand we're saving a very small amount of money...so...

Imagine being transgender and listening to the GOP's descriptions: You are too dangerous around kids in bathrooms and you're unfit to serve in the military. There's just a consistent pattern of describing minorities in a nagative way.

This is what happens when your party has no involvement with different kinds of people. The GOP needs to diversify and stop wasting time, attention, and resources "combating" the dangers of the transgender community.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Trumps backwards administration at it again....

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Perhaps some of them would feel a little awkward changing amongst a man and also looking at his "item" as he changes in their presence?

More negativity and an obsession with changing rooms and bathrooms.

I'm not a military fan but these soldiers are far braver than you or I. But it seems all some people can do is trash them at every opportunity.

Not based on their soldiering but based on fear and ignorance.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

More negativity and an obsession with changing rooms and bathrooms.

Of course! As a father of a little girl, No, I object to it and any parent that have daughters would object to this and that's why it will never get traction, nor should it. If they want to make a separate and universal restroom or changing facility for them, I wouldn't have any objections to that.

I'm not a military fan but these soldiers are far braver than you or I. But it seems all some people can do is trash them at every opportunity.

No one is trashing them, but the military isn't a huge feel good social experiment.

Not based on their soldiering but based on fear and ignorance.

I expect the left to say that. If that were true then gays and lesbians would be barred as well and they are not, so it has nothing to do with ignorance.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Let me get this straight (pun intended).

A homosexual man (who is physically a man) will be assigned to men's quarters.

A transgender man (who is physically a man) will be assigned to woman's quarters.

?????

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

If that were true then gays and lesbians would be barred as well and they are not, so it has nothing to do with ignorance.

The ban was only lifted 6 years ago. So before that, what was the ban down to? An oversight?

Of course! As a father of a little girl, No, I object to it and any parent that have daughters would object to this and that's why it will never get traction, nor should it. If they want to make a separate and universal restroom or changing facility for them, I wouldn't have any objections to that.

Do you think children are somehow at risk? Are you saying trans people are paedophiles?

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Why when these topics come up there is ONLY talk about men becoming women.

Works both ways and women will get 'Junk', which goes up and down, etc. Seen a report of one person having switched gender several times.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Let me get this straight (pun intended).

A homosexual man (who is physically a man) will be assigned to men's quarters.

A transgender man (who is physically a man) will be assigned to woman's quarters.

?????

A transgender man is someone who was assigned the gender female at birth; they should be assigned to male quarters, as they are now male.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Do you think children are somehow at risk? Are you saying trans people are paedophiles?

No, but you are leaving the window open for abuse. What's not to say an average Joe could make the claim that he's a transgender, how would you check or verify that?

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

bass4funkToday  09:07 am JST

Of course! As a father of a little girl, No, I object to it and any parent that have daughters would object to this and that's why it will never get traction, nor should it. 

Why is it you think your being a father of a girl entitles you to practice bigotry against innocent people?

bass4funkToday  09:28 am JST

No, but you are leaving the window open for abuse.

Every time you allow your daughter to interact with another human being, the window is open for abuse. There is a reason you fear transgender people are more likely to abuse your daughter than the friends and family that mountains of statistical evidence show to be the most likely people to abuse a minor. And that reason is not the transgender people, it's you.

Burning BushToday  09:14 am JST

Let me get this straight (pun intended).

A homosexual man (who is physically a man) will be assigned to men's quarters.

A transgender man (who is physically a man) will be assigned to woman's quarters.

You should have written "transgender woman", but yes, you have it exactly right. This is not shocking, confusing or contradictory, except for to people who cling to an unscientific and backwards notion that physical sex, gender, and sexual orientation must always be the same thing.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

No, but you are leaving the window open for abuse. What's not to say an average Joe could make the claim that he's a transgender, how would you check or verify that?

A determinded paedophile will unfortunately be devious enough to pursue their dreadful desires. They could be male, female, trans.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Bass.

To become certified as Transgender takes a LOT of tests and doctors.

Can't show the paperwork you aren't.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Why is it you think your being a father of a girl entitles you to practice bigotry against innocent people?

I really hope he's not using his being a parent to do this.

The bigotry that we see whenever a topic on LGBT crops up is very saddening but not surprising. Imagine a LGBT person having to endure this every day of their lives. What kind of impact do people think it might have on them?

6 ( +7 / -1 )

To become certified as Transgender takes a LOT of tests and doctors.

Really, how?

My understanding is that "Gender identity" is decided by each transgender person, not imposed by others.

I propose we put our faith in Science to solve this mess.

Everybody who wishes to join the military is subject to a physical and a basic genetic test.

If the test reveals you're XY, the military will consider you a male.

If the test reveals you're XX, the military will consider you a female.

What you do in your private time will be your business but as for military procedures and protocol, the results of the genetic test will determine your sleep quarters and uniform requirements.

That's fair and objective.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

Which incidentally is how every single soldier I've ever heard weigh in on this topic sees things. Every one of them has not cared the least about what the plumbing status of their fellow soldiers is - when lives are potentially on the line, they have more important things to worry about.

Then why did a ban on transgender individuals serving openly exist for much of President Obama’s presidency ? The military definitely has more important things to spend money on than hundreds of thousands for a single sex reassignment operation. If transgender service members want to be treated with equality and inclusiveness, don’t give them special accommodations. Treat them like transgender people out in the private sector.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

What kind of impact do people think it might have on them?

Imagine a person walked up to you and said;

"I may look like a human but actually I identify myself as an Eagle, please treat me like an Eagle"

I'd say;

"I don't care what you identify yourself as, a genetic test can prove you are not an Eagle you are a human"

The same goes for transgender people, they can claim what they want and in their private lives act as they please.

But if they have the XY gene, society and science will consider them males, if they have the XX gene, society and science will consider them females.

Sorry folks, you can't escape your genetics.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

Burning BushToday  10:15 am JST

I propose we put our faith in Science to solve this mess.

Everybody who wishes to join the military is subject to a physical and a basic genetic test.

That's not "putting faith in science". That's putting faith in an over-simplified data-set that has the veneer of science to people who haven't actually studied the issue.

Biological sex is a complex assembly of all the things on your body that make you a man or a woman. Gender is your mental identity based on psychological systems that aren't completely understood and our social constructs of "male" and "female".

Your high school biology class probably taught you that men have an XY chromosome pair and women have XX, but it's not that simple. Chromosomes just carry the genes, they aren't the genes themselves, and genes are just chemistry, telling your body which vast sets of chemical signals to produce at different times to make you. Science is making leaps forward all the time, but the complex interweaving of chemical signals still isn't completely decoded. So people can have chromosomes that don't match their physical bodies that don't match their gender identity. It's all very complicated.

Don't believe me? Look at Caster Semenya, South African Olympic Gold medalist. She was ordered to submit to a sex verification test and it took 11 months for officials to clear her to compete as a woman. If all it took was a quick look down the pants and a chromosome check, it would have taken hours, maybe a few days at worst.

Now, with all this testing and complexity and ambiguity, a simple question arises - why does it matter? Why do you personally need to feel that every US soldier is bunked "properly" based on your ideas about what their genitals say about who they are? No rational argument has been given for why this is necessary, so the inescapable conclusion is that we have a segment of civilians who are so insecure at the idea of complex gender and sexual identity that they would rather subvert our military's combat readiness than accept the fact that a minority of people don't fit the strict gender/sexual binary they understand.

And that's rather sad, don't you think?

6 ( +8 / -2 )

There are numerous possible complications from sex change surgery and with transgender (or hermaphodite, intersex etc) healthcare in general which make it a population more prone to high maintenance abnormal functioning that would be a problem to manage in a field combat situation. This is the same reason someone with, say, a mild physical problem/abnormality that is easily managed in a civilian setting may be barred from service as well. It isn't all about keeping the so-called freaks out.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

BB.

Your view is simplistic to suit your views.

1st you have to be identified with a GID disorder.

2nd are 2-3yrs of surgeries to remove your current sex organs and give you a new set, add in hormone treatments, etc.

3rd is the legal steps to have your gender legally changed, i.e. all your official documents now show your new gender.

4th hormone, etc treatments are needed till you die.

How do I know this I got good friends of both sexes that used to be a different sex, and they are much happier now. Most people are not even aware that their gender is different from their birth one.

Not something I would want to do myself but it is their choice not mine, yours or anyone elses.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Bass4funk: What's not to say an average Joe could make the claim that he's a transgender, how would you check or verify that?

How about locker rooms?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The military does not exist for social experiments. Work out all of these issues in general society first, then it can be considered for the military.

Politicians just want to use the military because they can be ordered to accept it. You guys who think military members have no issues and are fine with this, you know why? Because they have been ordered not to say anything negative about it and have been to multiple "trainings" to recondition them how to act and feel about it.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

So the man who refused to serve is standing in the way of those willing to lay their lives on the line to protect Trump's way of life. Reprehensible.

Spot on.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Let's at least get the terminology straight.

LGBTIQ stands for:

Lesbian

Gay

Bisexual

Transgender

Intersex

Questioning

I propose all those people, and everybody else in society be restricted to the restrooms and changing rooms that conform to their scientific genetics. All XY people must use the men's room and all XX people must use the women's room.

What seems to be proposed by some on this board, if I understand correctly, is that a Gay XY person should sleep in men's quarters, yet Transgender XY people should sleep in Woman's quarters.

How about an Intersex XY person, or a Questioning XY person, which changing room should they use?

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

I am all for Unisex, molded on female toilets ergo all single person stalls or have the urinals(female ones exist used in 1964 Olympics) blocked visually.

Separating by sex wastes a lot of space as kids changing tables are now in both male and female toilets. Seen toilets with Wheelchair access, urinals and baby tables as well as toilet bowls. Getting more common in many new buildings.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

army buddies of mine told me about the secret hole in the last toilet, ways back. it was totally accepted. why all the fuss, each to their own.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I truly don't see what the fuss is. Recalling being called up for my service (conscription) took a 2 day exam(women can volunteer).

So if they pass the medical & physical they should be able to serve.

Even as a teen male and female had separate changing rooms but showers were shared slide curtain was the only separation. Often had to shoo the girls to their side of it. Norm at school or we took turns(seen many girls scoot in too pick up 'forgotten' stuff.

And I am talking 4+ decades ago

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Norm at school or we took turns

Of course, the key point is that you took turns.

The issue is who you took turns with.

Male coaches regularly enter boys locker rooms to pep talk the players.

Don't people think it would be rather inappropriate for a male (let me clarify with XY) teacher to enter the girls changing room.

I guess I'm just old fashioned but I think that's wrong.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

BB.

Different cultures, turns were when were on the annual 1-week skiing, etc trips.

Sharing is common back home may it be Sauna or whatever. All public pools topless(male and female) is ok, nudist sections are common in many towns too(no barriers) like parks or along rivers.

Of course restricted times are available too.

FYI, topless is banned outside pools, nudist areas hence no shirtless jogging, etc.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

BlacklabelToday  12:54 pm JST

The military does not exist for social experiments.

Exactly, and anyone demanding transgender people be denied equal rights to serve their country is trying to enact a social experiment. The science is clear- gender is complex. People trying to deny that because it doesn't fit their ideology are foisting a social experiment on the rest of us, at the expense of our military readiness.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

"The military definitely has more important things to spend money on than hundreds of thousands for a single sex reassignment operation."

Can they not allow transgenders to still join, but make it a stipulation that the military will not pay for any operations of that nature?

"So the man who refused to serve is standing in the way of those willing to lay their lives on the line to protect Trump's way of life. Reprehensible."

Amen to that! Can I get a hallelujah! Your name is deceiving. You should change it to "SensibleJoe" ^_^

2 ( +2 / -0 )

and anyone demanding transgender people be denied equal rights to serve their country 

I actually agree with you, LGBTIQ should be allowed to serve, but the same rules should apply to them as apply to everyone else.

As it stands the military has a rule, everybody is barred from entering a private area wherein their presence would make the people already inside that room uncomfortable.

If you're a man in military and you enter a woman's area and they become uncomfortable and report you, you are in serious trouble.

That rule should apply to everybody equally, whether you're straight, transgender, intersex questioning... whatever.

If your presence in a changing room or bathroom makes the people who are already inside that room uncomfortable, guess what, you don't belong there. The rights of the people inside that room supersede your rights to question your gender.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

But other people's rights NEVER take priority over your own rights in this new social justice world.

You can shut down any speech you don't like. you are entitled to your own safe space where only people just like you can enter. You can have 67 genders, be gender neutral or change genders daily to suit you. If you feel uncomfortable in any situation it's not your fault it's mine.

this is how the new world is. Anything you decide is true just is. Science used as proof of global warming but ignored when it says there are 2 genders that cannot be biologically changed.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

If there are all these "genders," when they have a formal meeting, does the speaker start with:

"Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, lesbians, gays, bisexuals, transgender men, transgender women, queers, intersex persons and questioning persons . . "

Bit long winded, isn't it?

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Public indecency crimes are based on what's called Socially Acceptable Norms.

Which means that if some guy does something very strange in a park and everybody freaks out, guess what, that guy is at fault, regardless of whether he thinks his behaviour was acceptable or not. The Judge will assess his behaviour against the criteria of Socially Acceptable Norms.

By the same token, if some Intersex or Transperson enters a ladies changing room and all the girls and women freak out then guess what, it's the person who entered the room who's at fault, not all the woman who were offended by his presence.

And the same law applies (should apply) to everybody equally.

Transpeople should get a special exemption to offend others just because of their own confusion about their gender identity.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Please leave your prejudice off the discussion board.

Kids are coming out as transgender at 5 years old now!? so i guess it's sooner than I imagined that everyone will be forced to accept this to include the military.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article169365057.html

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

And then they need to get over it, because being in the military is not about choosing your bunk-mates for a fun slumber party, it's about serving your nation.

But that isn't true if there are separate male and female quarters. When homosexuals were allowed to serve openly they never changed the now archaic separate bunking. If homosexuals can bunk and shower with the same sex it makes no sense going through all the trouble of separating by sex. I have no problem with people who are of one sex who want to be the other serving in the military as-long-as they are otherwise mentally stable. But only if the military ends it's sex segregation policy is discriminatory.

If a female soldier doesn't want to sleep and shower next to men, "then they need to get over it".

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Science used as proof of global warming but ignored when it says there are 2 genders that cannot be biologically changed.

Global warming is not a sentient, living human being. One's sexuality and/or gender is not a "social experiment".

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Burning BushAug. 26  03:27 pm JST

As it stands the military has a rule, everybody is barred from entering a private area wherein their presence would make the people already inside that room uncomfortable.

Really? Care to cite the rule?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Why is it you think your being a father of a girl entitles you to practice bigotry against innocent people?

First of all, I am not a bigot and second, I don't care what you are or what you do with your life as long as it doesn't impede others and in the situation of forcing schools or gyms and telling little girls they have to share a restroom and a dressing room with a man that has male genitalia is stepping over the line. Young developing girls have enough to deal with and then they are forced to share changing facilities with someone of the opposite sex, not going to happen and if the majority of States would force the issue, I guarantee you Home Schooling numbers would increase.

Every time you allow your daughter to interact with another human being, the window is open for abuse.

I understand that, but there is no reason that a school has to increase the chances for abuse by putting these young girls in a compromised position. Again, you are born with male body parts, you use the restroom of the sex you were born with OR they make a unisex restroom along with the men and women restrooms.

There is a reason you fear transgender people are more likely to abuse your daughter than the friends and family that mountains of statistical evidence show to be the most likely people to abuse a minor. And that reason is not the transgender people, it's you.

I fear No man. I fear and know that this has the potentiality of getting out of control very quickly. Now If will submit to you, have independent States and or counties put it on a ballad and vote on the issue and if it passes, fine. If not, there's your answer, but once again liberals want to shove and tell people YOU HAVE TO OR ELSE that's my problem. This constant bullying from the left is so nauseating, these people are so unhinged.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

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