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Pilots to be exempt from some airport checks in U.S.

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So, once again it comes down to politics, not safety. I remember when the idiot shoe bomber ruined travel for anyone carrying liquids in their carry-on. I was JUST leaving for home from Osaka that day, and had bought several bottles of sake at the Duty-Free for souvenirs. At the gate, while boarding, I was told I could not take on liquids. I got upset and asked if that were the case, why were they selling liquids at duty-free? I had two options, they said (sympathetically): leave them here at a loss (of $400), or rush and try to get a refund and hopefully still make the flight. Fortunately, I COULD get the refund (and witness lines of people doing the same thing) AND make the flight, but it was a HUGE mess. Then sure enough -- within a week of reported MASSIVE losses in sales at duty-free shops, they allowed sales of liquids again, but only once past immigration. It's ridiculous because you can still use alcohol and the lighters you can buy, or what have you, to make a molotov.

So now we're seeing the safety rules they US insists will protect airlines and passengers giving way thanks to pressure -- ie. it's not all that much about safety at all. Granted, a pilot might be less likely to blow up the plane, but what if s/he's the one to do it?

Ridiculous. Scan everyone, or don't scan anyone, if you are being honest about the screenings being for safety.

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Ridiculous. Scan everyone, or don't scan anyone, if you are being honest about the screenings being for safety.

agreed but TSA will not agree, they will go ahead until some untoward incident occurs.

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Gee, I hope terrorists don't undergo flight training before trying to blow up an airliner. Then we would all be in trouble...

oh..

wait a minute.

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"So now we're seeing the safety rules they US insists will protect airlines and passengers giving way thanks to pressure -- ie. it's not all that much about safety at all. Granted, a pilot might be less likely to blow up the plane, but what if s/he's the one to do it?"

That is certainly one way of looking at it. Have a look at PatrickSmith's blog at the LA Times. You won't believe how arbitrary the rules are. First of all, we STILL don't have reinforced cockpit doors, even though the TSA accepts now that pilots are the terrorist target and not suspects. Pilots are allowed to have a gun in the cockpit, but they are NOT allowed to have a metal butterknife from First Class when walking through the airport. A uniformed pilot is now exempt from searches EVEN IF OFF DUTY. Flight attendants are NOT exempt from searches in any way.

Patrick Smith is a pilot and calls the security system unsustainable. For a nation where 2 million people are constantly flying or waiting in line to fly, he is right.

Also keep in mind that the TSA has caved on pilots partially because of health issue complaints, but it maintains that there is no health hazard. Personally, I don't believe that health problems exist, but obviously somebody does, and now the TSA acknowledges that.... for pilots.

As the controversy becomes more political, pay special attention to the part, everybody, where some people remain suspect and others are given a pass as loyal Americans. We already have pilots, TSA employees, and rich people on the side of loyal Americans. The rest of us are suspect. This is where the conspiracy theorists will be proven right. The veneer is being stripped away.

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Solution to the problem is Archie Bunker "All in the Family"... hand each passenger a loaded gun just before boarding the flight. Think about it, who's gonna attempt a hijack with a plane full of armed passengers?

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Gee, I hope terrorists don't undergo flight training before trying to blow up an airliner. Then we would all be in trouble... oh.. wait a minute.

Luckily, our patriotic progressive betters. always seeking to strengthen America, have developed something called Political Correctness. Since one certain religious group on the planet is far,far more prone to violence than the rest of the world's peoples the US military, law officials, cops, judges and even private citizens are encouraged to use their rational faculties , look into the backgrounds of such people, profile behavior (and even appearance) and then take the steps needed to protect ourselves. Amazing, isn't it! Why, it's like they have read history and discovered that a surprisingly large number of the world's democracies perished more or less from collective suicide dressed up as political movements which would elevate collective over individual, or else from a loss of the values that won freedom from tyranny in the first place.

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Search only those that fit the profile of a terrorist, period. Leave the rest of us who don't fit the profile away from the constant security hassles and now pat downs and let us board our flights and go about our law abiding business. Let the smiths and kleins of the world have a hissy fit about violating some young male muslims rights because he happens to fit that profile, while that nice TSA guy is now able to be patting down their groan area now all for political correctness of course.

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I think all air terminals should be clothing free areas. Would make life easier as long as not too cold in the winter and summer. Free love zone areas, sushi on the stomach areas. At least in America, people would start to understand that we are just animals, and to be bare is no big deal. Would save a lot of time and hassles.

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Sailwind.

And the Terrorists will simply use people that don't fit the current profiles.

Same way that the 9/11 guys slipped through the nets.

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Klein2 "As the controversy becomes more political, pay special attention to the part, everybody, where some people remain suspect and others are given a pass as loyal Americans. We already have pilots, TSA employees, and rich people on the side of loyal Americans. The rest of us are suspect."

"Rich" people, TSA Union employees and pilots are what - all the same voting bloc?

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Ridiculous. Scan everyone, or don't scan anyone, if you are being honest about the screenings being for safety." surprised, we agree.... Not for nothing, I don't see why the scanners are causing so many problems for people, I don't mean about the allegations that someone kept scans, people were sayingg they were invasive even before they were deployed. I rather have some TSA dude/girl get stimulated by my body than risk being blown up. If you really have a problem, go with one of those private plane groups.... they are not as much as you think they are.

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Sailwind.

And the Terrorists will simply use people that don't fit the current profiles.

Same way that the 9/11 guys slipped through the nets.

Agreed, they did use recruit that loser Richard Reid and his shoe laden explosives that thankfully didn't go off. Though he should have been setting off some alarms for additional screening before he boarded the flight anyway. One way ticket, no luggage, young male....those three factors right there makes for a pretty basic profile for extra security search, with-out the added Muslim factor thrown in at all that he might be up to no good.

That is what I mean by basic profiling.....It works and should be used instead of mass punishment for all. I appreciate the good thought provoking comment you made to though to my post, thank you for that.

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Those who refuse a body scan can be forced to undergo time-consuming fingertip examinations, which include clothed genital areas and breasts, by inspectors of the same sex as the traveler

Are we under arrest here. What if someone is uncomfortable with either, do to sexual orientation, or maybe they have been molested, raped, or could be tranzgender. If you never thought the US was a police state, well now it is. Honestly other than tranz oceanic flights I think it would be wise to boycott the airlines. They will let the TSA know how butters the bread.

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MisterCreosote: "Luckily, our patriotic progressive betters. always seeking to strengthen America, have developed something called Political Correctness."

Interesting you call racism 'political correctness'. I think somewhere along the line in life, likely when you started believe in what Republicans had to say, you got to telling yourself that the opposite is always true. But, do go ahead and tell me where labeling one group as terrorists is 'politically correct'. Tell us how by perhaps not allowing people to be pilots because they are Muslim is 'politically correct'. You definitely get the silly post of the day award.

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skipthesong: " Not for nothing, I don't see why the scanners are causing so many problems for people, I don't mean about the allegations that someone kept scans, people were sayingg they were invasive even before they were deployed. "

I too am surprised we agree on something, but that's a good thing. I don't see any huge problem with the scanners either, but I DO see a problem with making exceptions based on political pressure. It's like I said in my allusion before, they declared that we were unable to take liquids on the plane the day after the shoe-bomber thing because we could blow up the blame using them. Within a week we were allowed to do so if we bought them from duty free, as though the risk that existed during that week disappeared.

Sailwind: "That is what I mean by basic profiling.....It works and should be used instead of mass punishment for all. I appreciate the good thought provoking comment you made to though to my post, thank you for that."

You're right. All white Christians should have to be screened before entering any city building because of Timothy McVeigh.

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I am the type of person that takes my sarcasm very seriously and believe people need to be irradiated/scanned and these scans should be posted on the internet(s) for everyone to see. I will be that fellow air traveler that tells you --> "You look much better in person than your scan" --> and you should believe that i am telling you the truth when i say that.

Just don't question my logic at the airport when the metal detector hits on my rolls of silver and gold as i pass thru. --> Seems to be better than holding American dollars right now.

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MisterCreosote: "The Left's favorite fake xtian, McVeigh, in his own words: "Science is my religion.""

Fine, all whites, period. You just increased the range of profiling.

It's still nonetheless amusing you could only try and deflect and not comment on the fact that I'm right about your hypocrisy. I still love your idea that 'racial profiling is politically correct'. That takes the cake, bud.

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Unless the US government can put the same security in force at all foreign airports from which flights bound for the US (and it can't), then this whole thing is a ridiculous waste of time and money.

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Socialism = "this whole thing is a ridiculous waste of time and money"

-Yeah, but look at how many ObamaJobs it created. It is all about growing Gov and how many ObamaJobs one can get now.

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MisterCreosote quoted me and then made no reference to the quote whatsoever. Is there some kind of term for that?

I will call it Creo-quoting from now on.

Like this:

Luckily, our patriotic progressive betters. always seeking to strengthen America, have developed something called Political Correctness.

I am very surprised that flight attendants are not being exempted too. Any one of them could crash a plane almost as easily as the pilot could, and they ARE on the front lines of stopping terrorists. What gives?

Or this:

-Yeah, but look at how many ObamaJobs it created. It is all about growing Gov and how many ObamaJobs one can get now.

I feel great that the pilots can now jump lines and move to the planes faster, rather than being processed like the rest of the rabble, but if they are not actually flying a plane on that day, why should they be treated differently from a police officer, FBI agent, or firefighter?

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Beelz. That is EXACTLY what this Patrick Smith guy from Salon was saying. The Nigerian teeny bomber would not have been stopped by all this domestic groping anyway, he was not groped or scanned in Nigeria or in the Netherlands, so it STILL would be up to vigilant passengers to stop his ilk.

Everyone, pay attention to how the scanning is being used to split people into groups. Kind of a quick and dirty loyalty test. It establishes a hierarchy that is reinforced daily. Penn and Teller have already described that, as celebrities, they were offered escorts through the lines by TSA supervisors if they did not complain about their treatment. I was in a US airport where first class passengers went through a different security line than economy class passengers did, and there was no wait, even though about 200 people were waiting in the other line. Why? Patty Hearst was a terrorist and she was certainly not poor.

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"Sailwind: "That is what I mean by basic profiling.....It works and should be used instead of mass punishment for all. I appreciate the good thought provoking comment you made to though to my post, thank you for that.""

I am going to creoquote you a little here, sorry.

Limbo was posting yesterday about how "fabulous" the Isreali system is and all the usual suspects agreed that he was on to something. Guess what? No nasty patdowns and no scanners. What they do is start investigating you as soon as you buy your ticket. Gee. What a great idea. Guess what? The US COULD already do that. They have the information. From visa applications to their JEST system or whatever it is called, they know days, weeks, months in advance who is flying.

Why is the US government collecting all this information it never uses and then subjecting people to the groping and radioblasting? It is not profiling if you find something suspicious, after all.

I have a proposal that some people might like. Take half of the TSAs budget and give it to the FBI and about 10 CIA guys. Then give a list to the TSA guys and have them meet people at the ticket counter or wherever and let them worry about those people and pretty well leave everyone else alone. Every plane terrorist for the last decade has had something fishy about them, I think, and it did not have to do with their skin color or name.

You are NOT violating the fourth amendment if you have probable cause. Simple as that.

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Why in the world do they want to check the pilot anyway?? The pilot is in control of the friggin plane... did the TSA ever explain that logic?

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Klein:

" Limbo was posting yesterday about how "fabulous" the Isreali system is and all the usual suspects agreed that he was on to something. Guess what? No nasty patdowns and no scanners. What they do is start investigating you as soon as you buy your ticket. Gee. What a great idea. Guess what? The US COULD already do that. "

They can´t because it would not be politically correct. We must not mention what motivates the jihadists. We must pretend that jihadism is a random condition among the general population.

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One other thing needs to be said: someday, some way, a plane is going to blow up. It is going to happen again over US soil. People have this idea that it can be prevented by doing this or that, but we already know that a rectum bomb is possible and unpreventable.

Blaming the TSA, or Obama, or the pilots, or even Bush makes no sense. These are terrorists and their full time job is what we amateurs are trying to prevent.

I think we need to move away from that fear and think about what we are doing with our lives. 100 million Americans fly each year. If we assume that they only fly once and that they get to the airport 2 hours early and fly round trip (and that they fly only once a year), then that is 400 million "man hours" spent every year in these lines. That is 45,662 years EACH YEAR in the US alone spent in these lines, cowering in fear.

Roughly assuming a remaining life span of the average flyer of 45 years, then that is about 1000 lifetimes lost EACH YEAR. What is that, five jet liners full of people? Four?

Um. That looks like overkill to me. Many more people are dying in those lines than in some imaginary flaming jetliners. 10,000 lifetimes have been lost in the last decade waiting for the TSA to probe. Waiting to take our shoes off. Wondering if we put out shampoo and nail clippers in the right places.

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"Rich" people, TSA Union employees and pilots are what - all the same voting bloc?"

What? People in the US dont get what they want by voting. They do it by changing the rules and getting others to change the rules for them. Read the newspapers and look at what is happening with tax cuts, GM, Goldman Sachs, and Chesley Sullenberger. Companies can get what they want, but they don't vote, right? Sully got what he wanted just by clearing his throat. Everyone else, such as frequent fliers, has to scream real loud.

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I have to say, many of these TSA workers are just poor, uneducated, folk who are just happy to have a minimum wage job, kind of gets them feeling better about not being on welfare like the rest of their brothers and sisters, and wearing a white shirt and a badge must make them feel real special. And if someone gives you a hard time, well you can make them lose their flight right?

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Why should it be necessary to have any security checks at airports? Heck, if there were no terrorists/crazies, things would go much smoother at airports and on aircraft, and flying would cost a lot less. What the heck is wrong with some people?

"many of these TSA workers are just poor, uneducated folk"

These "poor, uneducated folk" have helped keep U.S. soil free of terrorist attacks since 9/11.

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NY Times reports that Boehner requested not to be patted down, so he isn't. It is a formal deal with the DC police and the TSA.

He is just escorted to his plane.

Great. Patriotic. Republican.

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NY Times reports that Boehner requested not to be patted down, so he isn't. It is a formal deal with the DC police and the TSA.

He is just escorted to his plane.

Great. Patriotic. Republican.

You think he his a terrorist and needs his groin searched Klein? I don't think President Obama is getting 'personal attention' that way either.

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Klein:

What? People in the US dont get what they want by voting. They do it by changing the rules and getting others to change the rules for them. Read the newspapers and look at what is happening with tax cuts, GM, Goldman Sachs, and Chesley Sullenberger.

Right. Sullenberger is in cahoots with GM, Goldman Sachs and , umm, Bristol Palin?

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The security needs to be focused on WHO is getting on the airplane and not just WHAT is getting on. There will be bad pilots. For example, Egypt Air Flight 990 in 1999 when the pilot deliberately took his plane and its passengers into the Atlantic.

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Suzu1

actually those issues tend to get addressed more. It's like work fatigue for truckers or train conductors. Pilots have argued against back to back flights and over over-time and with events like Flight 990 it allows their union to argue against the hours. Anyway, the issue of fatigue is largely addressed and it not the issue for this article.

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But, do go ahead and tell me where labeling one group as terrorists is 'politically correct'. Tell us how by perhaps not allowing people to be pilots because they are Muslim is 'politically correct'. You definitely get the silly post of the day award.

Wrong Smith!! You get the silly post of the day award!! You can't accept that hijacking has come from a certain group all because you like to be the politically correctedness defender of the year. limboinjapan said it best the other day about the Israelis. They do profiling and they keep their airline safe because they recognize who their enemies are. You suffer from what Russel Peters said about white people in Canada. Too afraid to see something that is obvious. Reference his joke about a white guy telling him that his friend is outside waiting but doesn't know if he's a black guy or not. But knows that he's tall but didn't notice any color. That is you Smithinjapan and friends. Political correctness has put blinders on you lot and you preach how wonderful you all are because you don't profile. But you make us all lose and then we need scanners that because of your correctness we have to have to check everyone instead of scrutinizing the profile that we should be. Suzu1 just mentioned Egypt Air pilot. Well guess what religion he was? Oh no. Another Random incident.

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What's silly is that they actually spend time searching or "protecting" us from non-Muslims.

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In the end this means more people driving, more pollution, more "global warming", and waaaay more disaffection with the Obama regime, not that unintended consequences ever bother utopians and collectivists.

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Klein 2 :

NY Times reports that Boehner requested not to be patted down, so he isn't. It is a formal deal with the DC police and the TSA. He is just escorted to his plane. Great. Patriotic. Republican.

LOL. From the same article:

"Michael Steel, a spokesman for Mr. Boehner, said the Republican leader had neither requested nor received special treatment at the airport security line."

Boehner has pledged to fly civilian, unlike Speaker Pelosi, who had a private military plane flying her and family from SF to DC.

Thinks Princess Nancy gets a pat-down?

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