Pirate hostage captain praises SEAL 'superheroes'

SEALs are not superheroes, they are trained killers. Heroes don't murder children, the pirates were all kids. They should face the International court, along with the pirates.

"SEALs are not superheroes, they are trained killers. Heroes don't murder children, the pirates were all kids. They should face the International court, along with the pirates." Wow! Someone lives in a glass bubble. The operative word is "should." Kids shouldn't be pirates. Terrorists "shouldn't" mix in with the civilian population. Ugly people shouldn't be treated different from pretty people. Carnivores shouldn't eat other animals. Meanwhile in the real world, the SEALS saved the life of the captain and maybe just maybe discouraged pirates from kidnapping, stealing and murder. It's a tough world out there and people who loudly proclaim what things should be and shouldn't be sound quit foolish in the face of reality.

Superheroes to some and terrorists to others? Maybe form the dirty,hungry eyes of the Somalians, their young people going after international ships near their coast lines are considered as modern day Robin Hoods?? Anyway, time to bomb the hell out of Somalia, make that important sea line safe, because at the end of the day, we all need OIL, FOOD, CLOTHING, this is what makes the world nice and safe.

Den Den...What if you were the one being held captive? Then it's a different story Hugh....

'Meanwhile in the real world, the SEALS saved the life of the captain and maybe just maybe discouraged pirates from kidnapping, stealing and murder. It's a tough world out there.'

In the 'real world' superheroes exist only in comics and when they don't they are called Übermenschen. Don't know what that mean? Do a google under Nazi worldview. Little boys who call SEALS superheroes are one thing, a captain who has just had his life saved by them is another thing, but for politicians and media to start doing the same is bordering on fascism.

Denden is totally correct in his assessment.

These are trained killers, and if you ask them what they do they will tell you they do their job. That's it. The real issue here is why would a government send specialist forces out after a bunch of little criminals. That is a political issue and much too heavy for most posters to want to go near. Why? Because the truth is, what Prez Obama has done sending in the military, and authorizing lethal force (yes, and the French leadership also) in a hostage situation is political, and what is revealed here is that this American administration is no different in character, at all, from the one that preceded it.

Den_Den -- if the captain who was rescued by the SEALS actions had been a Japanese citizen, would your opinion of SEALS be different? My guess it would be.

Incredible how this thread is so convoluted already. I guess the words of Phillips did not help much, but you guys above really need to step back and think about this all for a bit.

First, the superhero bit. I think Phillips is going waaaaayyy too far in his praise. A superhero does not need to kill anyone to resolve a situation. They exist only in comics. Are SEALS trained killers? Yes. Does that make them less of heroes, in this instance? It most certainly does not. They are trained killers AND heroes, at least as far as this incident is concerned. They saved a life at most. They rescued a hostage safely at least. Heroes either way.

And killing kids? They were not kids. They were young men. They were teenaged adults, I have no doubt even more so in their own homeland. Plus, they were armed, and I cannot tell you what a difference that makes. Even a ten year old pointing a weapon at someone and making threats is not likely to be disuaded by the offer of a cookie. Get real. The military played nice with those guys right up until they looked like they were about to do an execution. At that point, you have two choices: take them down or wait and see. And wait and see carries a large chance you will see the hostage's brains blown out all over the boat. Should we take that chance just because you have a soft spot for deadly teens? Again, get real. They knew they were in the red zone, and they held out for days.

oneof6billion got those points correct. But then he said:

and maybe just maybe discouraged pirates from kidnapping, stealing and murder.

In fact, the pirates in the area went on a piracy spree immediately after. It was in the news.

elbudamexicano: Anyway, time to bomb the hell out of Somalia

The whole of Somalia is NOT responsible for the piracy. And there are other solutions besides your murderous ideas, including DON'T TRAVEL THOSE WATERS.

no den den, they shouldn't face any courts. the pirates, although young, went out onto the ocean, took hostages, stole, and threatened death to anyone who resisted. i'm not sure what bubble you live in, but here in the real world, we have choices we make, and those choices have consequences. they chose to steal and threaten harm, so they pay the consequences, even if that payment is with their lives. i don't feel bad for them.

Obviously more guns in capable hands will solve this piracy issue. Hillary Clinton was right, only pay the pirates with lead.

If any Somolis want to debate whether these SEALs are heros or not surely can. But until then I think they are. < :-)

n the 'real world' superheroes exist only in comics and when they don't they are called Übermenschen. Don't know what that mean? Do a google under Nazi worldview. Actually you should bother to read Nietzsche before you try to lecture others on what he meant since you obviously didn't comprehend what he wrote. I can't help to roll my eyes at someone who presumes the poster isn't more literate then they are. None the less, I also am aware of the tendency to glorify the military and how the right wing noise machine amplifies such stories. This however had nothing to do with that. The captain was overjoyed with the fact that he was going to be able to see his family again. Perhaps that's too abstract for you but people in the real world usually are very grateful when then come that close to being killed and someone helps them out. It is the role of Navies all over the world to protect against piracy. I bet you didn't know that the US navy rescued a North Korean ship from pirates 6 months ago. I bet you didn't know that the Indian navy sunk a pirate mother ship a while back or that the German, Canadian and Danish navy also recently thwarted pirates. Face it, you are trying to stick a square peg in a round whole if you are trying to say that protection of the international merchant fleet against extortionists, thieves and murderers is akin to fascism. When you make silly statements like that you join the moral level of those pirates.

As I said before, I myself have winced at the stupidity of those who glorified militarism but at the same time I also chafe at people who knee jerk condemn any military actions.

Anyway good job on the shooting. Takes great skill to make a hit on the sea. I have heard of recent developments in "guide" bullet technology, I wonder if they had "guided" bullets.

Badsey: Obviously more guns in capable hands will solve this piracy issue.

So would fewer guns in the hands of pirates. But granted, that may not be possible.

Anyway, operative term in the sentence I quoted is "capable hands". For starters, its a tall order. Second, it limits the numbers of people armed against the pirates. Even with France and the U.S. using armed vessels to partrol the area, the protection is still very thin. More ships and the cost/benefit ration goes to hell.

More armed commercial vessels you say? Well, it was YOU who said "capable hands" wasn't it? I think it would be easier to disarm the pirates than turn the average commerical seaman into a "capable hand". Mercs on the ships? Another cost/benefit problem.

My answer to this is same as before: convoy. There is no reason why these ships have to travel alone except pure laziness.

My answer: Kill more pirates.

Despite having a decided aversion to any sailor who reckons he can shoot, I have to admit that the SEALs did good this time. Although impossible, I would like to see a video of the shots they took off the back of the USS Tincan. Handling the wave action cannot have been fun. Just imagined if they had shot the hostage by mistake (trust me, it does sometimes happen). Anyway, having met a number of SEALs many years ago on joint exercises and also while on exchange to the US, my impression is that they are generally normal guys who are just a little bit more motivated than the military rank-and-file. Furthermore, I seem to remember them being rather partial to a drink, willing to barter just about anything for full alcohol beer.

taniwha

Because the truth is, what Prez Obama has done sending in the military, and authorizing lethal force (yes, and the French leadership also) in a hostage situation is political, and what is revealed here is that this American administration is no different in character, at all, from the one that preceded it.

Fine with me.

Den Den: SEALs are not superheroes, they are trained killers. Heroes don't murder children, the pirates were all kids. They should face the International court, along with the pirates.

Aww f#$% you! What gives a kid, woman, adult or anyone to hold someone hostage or to threaten someone else's life? If they had killed the captain then what gave them the right? If a "kid" shot up a school and killed 23 then what? Everyone has a choice, and they were old enough to know if they wanted to do this kind of BS they should be expecting trouble to come their way sooner or later. Man you are STUPID with all capital letters!

the pirates were all kids

Which probably means that the bad guys (sorry the good guys) should have just tried to wing them? Sorry Den Den, it does not work like that. In hostage negotiations, there comes a point where a decision has to be made. If it looks like the hostage is going to be killed, then negotiations are off. By the way, this is not a US invention. The basic guidelines for dealing with hostages were probably established for the CRW team at Hereford back in the early 1970s, during the troubles in Northern Ireland. Furthermore, another rule is once a hostage is killed (by the bad guys to prove a point), negotiations are also off. Anyway, once the order comes down from on high to resolve a situation, the last thing people think about is winging the bad guys. Rather, the motivation is to remove the threat, either through incapacitation or death. Furthermore, it is often the case that even where bad guys are incapacitated, they are shot out of hand afterwards just to make sure. This happened at the Iran Embassy Siege back in the early 1980s and a couple of other incidents that are still not in the public domain.

"the pirates were all kids"

Once again it goes to show how little the radical left know about Africa. Most of them were middle aged when it comes to life expectancy:

http://www.who.int/countries/som/en/

Un-believable once again to hear defense of heavily armed, hostage-taking robbers that threaten their captives with murder should they not get their ransom.

My answer to this is same as before: convoy. There is no reason why these ships have to travel alone except pure laziness.

Sounds good on the surface, but your wrong as to the reason. Laziness has nothing to do with it. Geography is the reason the convoy system would never work. These ships have to go thru the Suez canal. The canal can only allow one ship thru at a time in either direction. It's like taking a six lane highway done to one lane all at once. If you had a convoy system your going to create a maritime traffic jam of unbelievable proportions at the entrance of the canal. Not to mention the traffic jam that will start to occur say 50 nautical miles back, them 50 mor back and on and on. Your going to basically end up in a situation were commerce would be cut down to a slow crawl throughout the gulf of Aden. And a slow ship is exactly what the pirates want.

Good idea on using a convoy system as was used in WW2 to supply England likeitis on the surface, but once again but take it from a Sailor that has transited the Panama canal on many occassions (same as going through the Suez as far as logistics and traffic flow) it isn't economically feasible, and just wouldn't work.

We're going to see large swaths of the international Left basically defending piracy, for the simple reason that even the Left intuitively recognizes pirates are terrorists.

Denouncing these Somali pirates and agreeing to any calls for a return to the historical treatment of scum like this(immediate execution upon apprehension) would leave Lefties open to even further discrediting and ignominy since it would constitute a clear double standard on their part in regard to their position on the approach the free democracies of the West take against civilization's other common enemies - transnational militant Islamic supremacists.

Predictably, you can already see the Left recast the pirates as pawns in an economic game and as 'mere kids.'

It's the same worldview they have with everything - there are only victims (the poor widdle pirates) and 'oppressors' (the big shipping companies that only care about da profits and are - lol - too selfish to travel in convoys).

teleprompter: Excellent post. Very well stated.

Obama's buddy, Al Sharpton:

Somali pirates are Somalia's "voluntary coast guard."

clip at

http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/71A68B5F-1B32-4FFC-B113-9FF083FD9CD9/

Uh, how are Al Sharpton and Obama "friends"? Any proof? Anyway, "Live by the gun, die by the gun." No one can pick up a lethal weapon designed for killing many people, then complain when they get cut down. Teens or no. When I was 16 I knew that.

Convoys aren't really that practical due to the volume of shipping and the wide area it covers. Arming merchant ships (trained marshals with small-arms, sniper rifles, 50 cal mg on deck) would take care of the problem really quickly, but isn't possible due current laws restricitng guns onboard ships in most countries around the world.

The Maersk Alabama is an American flagged vessel; that means its crewed by the Merchant Marine, right? Had a buddy from highschool who joined the Merchant Marine. I wonder what sort of anti-piracy training they get?

Being Taniwha on these threads is sometimes a lot of fun, but only in the most perverse sense of dropping a mongoose into the chicken run. See the boys with guns for toys and those that would if they could, run flat bang into the walls and off each other.

Somali pirates, what more can be said, about a bunch of skinny teenagers with guns too big for them to hold properly clambering aboard corporate goods and holding them to ransom. The seeds sown by a century of stealing from their land by Italy, France, Britain, and only a little more recently the USA have sprouted from over the fence, and stepped right up to the front door and then kicked it in. Cheeky little so and so's. The only answer that people who have never understood the history of that part of the world can come up with is stomp on them with big heavy boots. Haaaah, that is the funny part, ironically. That is precisely how these pirates came into existence in the first place.

Another funny thing, the same idea was tried in Iraq, and now in Afghanistan. Two wars that can never be won, that bleed the invaders and their countries dry of young blood and of finances that would have been far better spent on feeding and educating their own.

Moderator: Stay on topic please.

How desperate does a person have to be to think it is Somali pirates who will somehow pave the way for 'international socialism' ?

The only answer that people who have never understood the history of that part of the world can come up with is stomp on them with big heavy boots. Haaaah, that is the funny part, ironically. That is precisely how these pirates came into existence in the first place.

Another funny thing, the same idea was tried in Iraq, and now in Afghanistan. Two wars that can never be won, that bleed the invaders and their countries dry of young blood and of finances that would have been far better spent on feeding and educating their own.

Hey Taniwha,

You do understand that the ship they hijacked was carry FOOD AID paid for by the FINANCES of the U.S people so they wouldn't STARVE and could actually BE HEALTHY enough to get an EDUCATION.

Your right though, let eat dust, should've keep that food in America.

Typo...Let em EAT DUST should've have keep that food in America.

'Hey Taniwha, You do understand that the ship they hijacked was carry FOOD AID paid for by the FINANCES of the U.S people so they wouldn't STARVE and could actually BE HEALTHY enough to get an EDUCATION. Your right though, let eat dust, should've keep that food in America.'

Sailwind

Yes. I have already mentioned that. I also mentioned that the numbers of ships actually being carrying food aid are miniscule percentage wise of the those heading down the Aden. The food aid is a government handout (a foreign government handout)/charity that is cynical in itself, because those it purports to help have suffered the conditions created by chaos precisely because of the activities of foreign corporations on the African continent.

The food aid is a government handout (a foreign government handout)/charity that is cynical in itself, because those it purports to help have suffered the conditions created by chaos precisely because of the activities of foreign corporations on the African continent.

I agree no food aid, let em starve. Hey, we agree on something.

Yes. I have already mentioned that. I also mentioned that the numbers of ships actually being carrying food aid are miniscule percentage wise of the those heading down the Aden.

Translation: This is yet another piece of evidence from the situation at hand that I can ignore. We'll add that to, "Guys with AK-47s threatening to kill another person."

So SuperLib is working on the moderation team now?

JT really amounts to one big advertisement really, doesn't it? A commercial enterprise sure but one that treats posters with utter contempt. I invite posters whether the agree with my politics or not to be aware.

I wonder how many of the handles here are really JT staff?

Today you leave his two completely off topic posts up and delete multiples of mine, including sections of them. You also never bother to communicate a decision, although clearly it is made out of sheer contempt.

So much for anyone who wishes to post on topic if their politics differs to that of your advertisers.

How desperate does a person have to be to think it is Somali pirates who will somehow pave the way for 'international socialism' ?

Haha. Great post teleprompter.