Police shoot and kill driver after car tries to ram through White House barricade

Hmm.....unarmed woman.,,,2/3 year old in the car..sounds like it's going to be messy.

Well, that's....strange.

Why kill the driver? Why not just shoot out the car tires and engine block? They could have murdered the child. Working without pay is not good, but working without brains is worse.

Well, she is reportedly Somalian and today’s the 20th anniversary of Blackhawk Down....so besides a mental situation it could be anything.

It was a 34 years old African American woman with an 18 months child in the car with license plate from Connecticut. She was shot to death by police. Guess what, the liberal media might swamp all over the places if she was not black. Let's hope she is not "a black tea party woman". Two shootings in D.C. one at the navy yard plus this one ?

They had to kill her because she didn't "respect my authoritah!!!!"

Poor woman, poor motherless child...

Everybody should know that White House security has a zero-tolerance policy, regardless of accidental mistakes, ignorance, or extenuating circumstances and empowered to punish all offenses severely, no matter how minor. Be aware of your surroundings and follow the rules. If your pissed off, don't go to White House.

Shooting in DC? Seems like business as usual.

Why kill the driver? Why not just shoot out the car tires and engine block?

Oh dear. Sounds like someone has been watching too many TJ Hooker re-runs.

It was a 34 years old African American woman with an 18 months child in the car with license plate from Connecticut. She was shot to death by police. Guess what, the liberal media might swamp all over the places if she was not black. Let's hope she is not "a black tea party woman".

BGood41 - A little hint; "liberal media" are often accused of highlighting injustices against minorities, not whites. I can't even begin to understand your black tea-party comment. Makes no sense whatsoever.

Other than that your comments seem entirely well thought out. Keep it up!

@Ranger_Miffy2 "shoot the engine block" and do what? "...shoot the tires" and make her even less in control of a 1/4 ton projectile? Cmon, really? This isn't a movie.

Everybody should know that White House security has a zero-tolerance policy, regardless of accidental mistakes, ignorance, or extenuating circumstances and empowered to punish all offenses severely, no matter how minor.

Some of the footage looks like there could be another adult in the car that presented a threat to the police. So I don't think the woman was shot simply because she rammed a White House barrier, disrespected a guard and drove 15 blocks away.

I think I would first of all make a slight change in the "title".. Instead of "Police shoot dead driver." I'd have written "Police shoot driver dead..."

Well obviously I'm in no place to make any kind of comment however, had it been me in that car, and had I suddenly realized I was in the "wrong" place with all kinds of security people coming after me, I'd have been scared out of my wits and could easily have made a bunch of "mistakes" trying to "escape"... Problem is, it seems that in America, very often they "shoot first" and ask the questions after...

The big question is why? Why did she do it, whay was the reasoning behind it and why do it when you have a child in the back of the car.

Let's hope she is not "a black tea party woman"

Sounds more like a democrat who stopped getting her free stuff, so this happened. So much for gun control.

She could have been trying to get health insurance but I don't think that is the serious reason.

From The New York Daily News:

Carey’s former boss, Dr. Brian Evans, told the Daily News that she “fell down some stairs and she had a pretty significant head injury” during the nearly two years she worked for him.

It was while Carey was in the hospital that she discovered she was pregnant and “she seemed happy,” Evans said.

But when they let Carey go last year, “it was nothing related to any mental problems that we were in tune to,” he said.

“There was never insubordination per se or anything like that,” said Evans, whose practice is in Hamden, Ct. “But she tended to go against the grain a bit.”

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/shots-fired-u-s-capitol-report-article-1.1475378#ixzz2ghwIIY6y

I watched the video and the car was almost surrounded by weapons-drawn-agents YET nobody could shoot out the tires?

Very strange!

sfpj: "Everybody should know that White House security has a zero-tolerance policy, regardless of accidental mistakes..."

I completely agree you SHOULD be aware of your surroundings and the rules of your surroundings, but a mistake is a mistake, and usually not something you anticipate.

I don't understand why they had to kill her, I realized that she almost ran them over but like someone said, why didn't they just shoot out the tires? Something ain't right here.

At least nothing of importance was interrupted.

Why kill the driver? Why not just shoot out the car tires and engine block?

The sun always shines on TV, doesn't it?

Guns country seems that guns solves all criminal cases whether he/she has guns or not. maybe it is understandable why some states don't have a death penalty.

why didn't they just shoot out the tires?

Police thought that he/she has guns/bombs in the car, so they really wanted to stop the car before going to crowd. Car still can run with flat tires. They will not shoot the baby who is unable to shoot.

LizzOct. 04, 2013 - 09:59AM JST Carey’s former boss, Dr. Brian Evans, told the Daily News that she “fell down some stairs and she had a pretty significant head injury” during the nearly two years she worked for him. ... ...“There was never insubordination per se or anything like that,” said Evans, whose practice is in Hamden, Ct. “But she tended to go against the grain a bit.”

In other words you have Dr. Evans saying that there was absolutely no evidence of any mental illness.

The pursuit began when the car sped onto a driveway leading to the White House, over a set of lowered barricades. When the driver couldn’t get through a second barrier, she spun the car in the opposite direction, flipping a Secret Service officer over the hood of the car as she sped away, said B.J. Campbell, a tourist from Portland, Oregon.

... when you remove the biased language using words like "sped", "spun" and "flipping" you get a very different image. She took a wrong turn up the White House driveway where some Secret Service idiot had left the barriers down.

She turned her car around and hit a Secret Service officer... who had PROBABLY approached her car with his weapon drawn and without identifying himself. As a mother in her car with a young child I can entirely support this reaction to some armed maniac approaching her car.

The secret service then chased after her car in unmarked vehicles ... which panicked her out of her mind (and would panic me too). How do I know that it was the secret service? Because the eyewitness said, "officer of some kind", in other words, not police wearing a uniform.

This poor woman, harassed and executed by a paranoid state. I hope her relatives sue the HELL out of the U.S. government.

Poor woman, poor motherless child..

Perhaps better to have no mother than to have what looks to be a dangerously unstable mother.

She took a wrong turn up the White House driveway where some Secret Service idiot had left the barriers down.

The barricades around the White House have been moved much further out under Obama so she was in all likelihood closer to a block away.

It does appear at this point to to be the case of a woman who had a good education, a stable job, and was not from DC, but from Connecticut, more than likely made a wrong turn, and then panicked when faced with armed officers.

I'm looking at the front-end of the car and I'm not seeing any damage that could've been caused by her ramming the car through lowered barricades.

I don't understand why they had to kill her, I realized that she almost ran them over but like someone said, why didn't they just shoot out the tires? Something ain't right here.

That's America, shoot first, ask questions later. From some of the pictures available it seems there was enough chance to at least try to disable the vehicle

PeaceWarriorOct. 04, 2013 - 03:48PM JST I'm looking at the front-end of the car and I'm not seeing any damage that could've been caused by her ramming the car through lowered barricades.

That's because she didn't ram through any barricades. Some idiot left the barricades lowered, i.e. down. She drove up what looked like a normal road and the Secret Service went nuts, over-reacted, attacked her and then eventually killed her.

... if this had been a real terrorist the White House would have been toast. Looks like all the secret service is good for is orphaning the children of innocent tourists.

Before asking questions about why did the police shoot her, I'd say it's far more important to ask why the hell she simply didn't stop on the many occasions that she could have done. I'd have certainly shot her in their position.

Has anybody read as to how the police vehicle got T Boned? That was a serious impact, certainly not caused directly by the woman at least.

"...shoot the tires" and make her even less in control of a 1/4 ton projectile? Cmon, really?

Yes, because we all know that shooting the driver of a moving vehicle makes the vehicle stop immediately and in total safety.

They will not shoot the baby who is unable to shoot.

If you're firing into a moving car, there is every chance you will hit the baby. Or the 'bomb' that they think might be in there. Kaboom.

I'd say it's far more important to ask why the hell she simply didn't stop on the many occasions that she could have done. I'd have certainly shot her in their position.

And in her position, would you have meekly stopped when you were suddenly surrounded and chased by armed men?

Sounds like mistakes on both sides compounded by paranoia on both sides compounded by the prevalent 'shoot first, ask questions later' mentality of a society awash with firearms.

Why kill the driver?

Because it was near the capitol. I'm sure if this was happening in some other location, she probably would be still living right now.

On a different note, I see more of these crimes happening in the future. The American public is fed up with the Government right now. And out of the millions, there's always a few nutcases out there.

Sounds more like a democrat who stopped getting her free stuff, so this happened. So much for gun control.

Few quotes so obviously disqualify a poster from intelligent conversation.

We'll find out in due course the cause or causes as the details come out.

Several years ago, there was an attack on the Capitol that killed two guards. Once the lady driver tried to forcer her way into the White House then ran away and rammed her car thru the police blockade and going around the White House - Capitol Hill area without heeding further police warnings, the police have the license to kill since it's on a very sensitive security area. They have to assume the worst case scenarios, including a suicide car bomb triggered remotely. Unfortunately they didn't notice the young child when the car was initially blockaded - fortunately the kid was not hit.

Here's a video of the incident. It's obvious those are police cars with lights and sirens on, not unmarked cars:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRCT-FdMDqo

Some interesting observations... the car showed little damage, so clearly never hit the police car. From the video she never even hit the barrier. Was she a threat? Why didn't the police cars try to box her in? There were enough of them. Did they even TRY to stop the car? Did they shoot her IN the car? Did she get out of the car and pose a threat? Did she have a gun? A bomb?

There are so many questions here... I sincerely hope this wasn't a case of a woman driving up the wrong road by mistake.

I'm just glad the baby is alive... only good thing to come out of the incident.

I will refrain from comment other than I am happy the child is safe until I know more

but its their right to shoot..no long live the 2nd

Just watched the video. Seems pretty obvious she took off without any care for who she hit. She's lucky she didn't take out a dozen other kids.

Careless driving shouldn't be a death sentence, SuperLib... American police are just too quick to draw their weapons and shoot. You see it time and time again on these police camera shows: US cops chase a driver and as soon as they catch them out come the guns.

I suppose we'll find out what the woman was doing in the end...

wipeoutOct. 04, 2013 - 07:24PM JST

That's because she didn't ram through any barricades. Some idiot left the barricades lowered, i.e. down. She drove up what looked like a normal road and the Secret Service went nuts, over-reacted, attacked her and then eventually killed her.

You know all this for a fact?

Yes, I do. I have this mysterious super-power that seems to have skipped several generations in the U.S. It is the ability to read witness statements and ONLY see what they said, and to look at evidence and ONLY see what is there.

There are witnesses that collaborate that she didn't ram any barricades. Instead she drove up a road over some barricades that had been left lowered. This is apparently not normal procedure, hence some idiot screwed up.

There are then witnesses that say that an individual (who they presume was secret service) approached the car with his firearm drawn.

The witnesses then state that the individual tried to prevent the car leaving by placing himself in its path... and was then hit.

Those are the facts. The spin the U.S. government is putting on them is that she was nuts and tried to ram the barrier at the end of the road and then tried to kill the secret service agent.

A far more reasonable interpretation is that she was lost, drove up the wrong street, came to a barrier and while trying to turn around and head back some stranger with a gun appeared and tried to stop her car. Naturally, in the presence of a clear threat to her life, she acted in self-defense and drove over him.

Only a complete and utter idiot would fall for any other interpretation. Of course these are early reports and witnesses haven't had time to read the newspaper, see their own words reinterpreted and get confused. Expect things to get murkier and more confused as time goes on.

I suppose we'll find out what the woman was doing in the end...

I'm afraid we'll never find out. She's dead. The trigger happy bunch made sure of that.

Thunderbird2: Careless driving shouldn't be a death sentence, SuperLib...

Careless driving is when I check a text message while I'm behind the wheel, not when someone decides to speed off while police are telling them to stop with guns drawn. At that point she became like any other suspect who has the potential to do great harm to those around her.

All the police can do is follow procedure, and if any mistakes were made they will be reported on intensely.

Here's a video of the incident. It's obvious those are police cars with lights and sirens on, not unmarked cars:

@lostrune2: Yes. Its also obvious that every cop there had a gun trained on the driver. Anyone would be scared. Many would be scared out of their wits. I guess she did lose her wits and tried to run. Once they started firing, it was game over. No way she was going to stop for them after that.

Do these people ever think to try and defuse a situation with body language such as putting their gun away and showing their palms?

This poor woman, harassed and executed by a paranoid state. I hope her relatives sue the HELL out of the U.S. government.

Oh please .... have you even watched the coverage of this incident and the video footage that is out there?

This woman was given every opportunity to stop her car. She was facing police officers clearly wearing uniforms (not plain clothes secret service who "scared" her like frungy speculated above) and utilizing their lights and sirens. Yet she chose to continue on driving erratically and dangerously at speed along one of most heavily policed blocks in North America.

If this woman turns out to have been not criminal and not crazy then its a Darwin award special if there ever was one. And she brought he baby too .... and people are on here defending her .... unreal.

Thumbs up for hidingout! I can't believe people are defending her either. Whatever she was trying to do, she picked the wrong location if she thought she would come out of it alive.

Everybody should know that White House security has a zero-tolerance policy, regardless of accidental mistakes, ignorance, or extenuating circumstances and empowered to punish all offenses severely, no matter how minor. Be aware of your surroundings and follow the rules. If your pissed off, don't go to White House.

Less inspiration, please. A bunch of armed males cowardly shot to death an unarmed woman. Plain and simple. Their level of professionalism lays way below a sewage collector.

A link to the raw footage:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a99_1380839928

There may have been some mental health issues but purely from sequence of events it looked like the two cop cars FORCED her into the barricades then she panicked, backed up and took off in hail of gunfire. Why were the police vehicles by her to begin with?

hidingoutOct. 04, 2013 - 09:47PM JST This woman was given every opportunity to stop her car. She was facing police officers clearly wearing uniforms (not plain clothes secret service who "scared" her like frungy speculated above) and utilizing their lights and sirens. Yet she chose to continue on driving erratically and dangerously at speed along one of most heavily policed blocks in North America.

Clearly you're looking at different footage.. or perhaps you're suffering from that sickness I mentioned earlier, the one where you see what the media tells you to see, now what's there.

Watch the video again. They guys on the driver's side of the car are wearing white shirts with police written on the BACK. There is no logo or other clearly identifying mark visible on the front of the shirt when then turn towards the camera. They're waving guns at her. They're most definitely NOT waving IDs at her like they should be. The one in front of the car is CLEARLY wearing a black T-shirt and casual clothes. The only one in uniform is BEHIND the vehicle for most of the scene on video.

She's posing absolutely NO danger to anyone at this point and there are at least five individuals crowding around her car with guns drawn and trying to yank her door open.

And this isn't the beginning of the affair, this is clearly after the actual start. If the people involved acted like this throughout I can COMPLETELY understand why she panicked and wasn't acting rationally. If someone was point guns at myself and my kid was in the car I would run them over first and ask questions later.

@frungy

I see uniforms. I see marked police cars with sirens and lights engaged. I see multiple officers with guns drawn. For you (and others) to speculate that this "poor woman" just lost her way and was afraid because a bunch of people suddenly approached her car brandishing weapons beggars belief. Who did she think these people were? A hit squad - dressed up as police? Carjackers - dressed up as police? Just down the street from Obama's pad, in broad daylight, with plenty of people visible in the background? Get real. She knew they were police unless she was suffering from some serious psychological problems.

And this isn't the beginning of the affair, this is clearly after the actual start. If the people involved acted like this throughout I can COMPLETELY understand why she panicked and wasn't acting rationally.

Likewise, I would say that if the driver had been behaving throughout the incident as she did in the video, I can completely understand why she was shot dead. We live in an age of shoe bombers, and underwear bombers and suicide bombers and nutjobs of every stripe and persuasion. Cops and secret service aren't going to be asking people to stop more than about two or three times before they start shooting - particularly cops on the beat one block down from POTUS. Looks to me like this lady had at least that many warnings.

Whatever happened prior to the video footage, what happens in the video is very clear. A person criminally attempts to evade police capture. In so doing she endangers the life of police officers, citizens at large and her own child. Its no surprise the story ends in tragedy. Like I said above, this is a Darwin award winner right here.

If someone was point guns at myself and my kid was in the car I would run them over first and ask questions later.

Tough guy eh? Whatever, let me ask you how you would feel if you and your kids were enjoying an ice cream in the pubic green space when this lady's car careened into your family trying to evade police?

According to CNN

Thursday's drama began around 2 p.m., when the woman steered a black Infiniti near the White House, a U.S. Secret Service source said. She drove up to a barrier at the 15th and E street checkpoint and was approached by Secret Service officers. She hurriedly made an erratic three-point turn, struck the barrier and backed into an officer before driving away, the source told CNN.

Seems to be the same information from most sources. With that information at hand I really don't see how the Secret Service could have reacted differently to somebody that runs from police, hits an officer, and led DC officers on a chase. She represented a clear and present danger in a very security tight location and law enforcement responded.

Yes, because we all know that shooting the driver of a moving vehicle makes the vehicle stop immediately and in total safety.

It's DC, for all they knew the driver was armed or trying to detonate something close to a major federal building. Of all the places you should not run from a checkpoint this is probably in the top 10.

And in her position, would you have meekly stopped when you were suddenly surrounded and chased by armed men?

At every point during this unfortunate turn of events I would have reacted entirely differently. I wouldn't have run from a checkpoint, I wouldn't have hit an officer, I wouldn't have fled the scene, and I wouldn't have engaged in a police pursuit. At any given point the best possible thing to do would have been to stop the car and lay on the ground with your hands in an open and neutral position on the ground or on your head.

From initial reports, it seems the lady has some mental problems (surprise, surprise). But these are just initial reports.

Once she was boxed in by police cars (with lights and sirens on and cars clearly marked "POLICE" - who else could she think it could be, the Mafia? in the most security-filled area of the land between the White House and Capitol Hill - even the Mafia ain't that stupid to be there) - ya don't run away from police officers and had to push her car out of it, ramming the police cars a few times to get out. Then she went around the rotunda, and she could see police cars IN FRONT of her. There's no way she could had missed that those are police cars. Once she did all these, the police had to assume the worst case scenarios, including Timothy McVeigh-style suicide bombers.

Same way if you fly a plane over the no-fly zone over Wash DC, you'd very soon see a couple fighter jets escorting you. If you don't respond to their commands, they are allowed to shoot you down. These are very sensitive security areas.

Okay let me get this straight. In the event of an unknown vehicle attempting to enter a high security area adjacent to the Capital Building; the correct procedure on the part of the Secret Service, Capital Police and National Parks Security personnel would be to:

1) Drop their weapons, raise their hands over their heads (palms facing out) and in a cheerful tone of voice say “Hi, how are you?”

2) And if the driver panics, starts evasive maneuvers, rams police vehicles and hits officers the remaining security personnel should run after the car with arms raised (palms facing out) and request in a calm and polite manner for them to please stop.

3) And if the driver doesn’t stop, they should shrug their shoulders and go “Oh well, I guess they must be lost.”

There have actually been several cases of armed or otherwise dangerous intruders that have attacked the White House without being shot in the head. Most are assumed to be mentally unstable and possibly suicidal, in which case officers either persuade the individual to lay down his weapon and surrender or apply enough force to incapacitate them, but not kill them. I remember one incident specifically around 2000 of a guy who waved a gun and fired several shots at tourists and police that was shot in the knee by a Secret Service agent. Another possibly psychotic man that tried to scale the fence several years earlier was shot in the arm. You can neutralize these "threats" (not likely to be suicide bombers) in one of two ways: the fast disappearing less than lethal way which the SS has used for 40+ years, especially if you care about not hitting babies or passersby, and the trigger-happy gun-crazy way.

@Frungy

Thanks for the information. Cheers.

technosphere Oct. 04, 2013 - 10:17PM JSTLess inspiration, please. A bunch of armed males cowardly shot to death an unarmed woman. Plain and simple. Their level of professionalism lays way below a sewage collector.

Perhaps her motives will become clear during the investigation but any "sane" person will stop and surrender when confronted with several police officers pointing guns at them. From the police perspective they are a little more apt to fire these guns when a person is driving out of control, ramming vehicles and attempting to run over the police (the ones with the guns). A vehicle can be a deadly weapon too. She my have been mentally ill, panicked, confused or she may have had weapons in the car, the trunk may have been filled with explosives. There is no way the police could have known until after the incident was over. Sad for the loss of life but they did the right thing.

I remember one incident specifically around 2000 of a guy who waved a gun and fired several shots at tourists and police that was shot in the knee by a Secret Service agent. Another possibly psychotic man that tried to scale the fence several years earlier was shot in the arm. You can neutralize these "threats" (not likely to be suicide bombers) in one of two ways: the fast disappearing less than lethal way which the SS has used for 40+ years, especially if you care about not hitting babies or passersby, and the trigger-happy gun-crazy way.

Officers in every level of the military and law enforcement are trained to aim for the center of mass. I've been shooting for years and I'd have trouble making a shot on a moving arm or leg. Firing a gun in real life isn't like firing one in a video game, it's not pinpoint accurate especially in the case of handguns which were used by the officers in this case. If you wound a dangerous or deranged individual it gives them threat time to fire back, putting yourself, other law enforcement officers, and innocent bystanders at risk. in any case it is illegal and foolish to shoot to wound. When you fire your weapon you do so to kill.

A vehicle can be a deadly weapon too. She my have been mentally ill, panicked, confused or she may have had weapons in the car, the trunk may have been filled with explosives. There is no way the police could have known until after the incident was over. Sad for the loss of life but they did the right thing.

I've been shooting for years and I'd have trouble making a shot on a moving arm or leg. Firing a gun in real life isn't like firing one in a video game, it's not pinpoint accurate especially in the case of handguns which were used by the officers in this case

Traffic policemen in my country often succesfully shoot tires of runaway cars during car chase or block them by police vehicles to prevent a dangerous, erratic driving. Ordinary traffic police, not "high-skilled pros" from units of special forces.

hidingoutOct. 04, 2013 - 11:12PM JST For you (and others) to speculate that this "poor woman" just lost her way and was afraid because a bunch of people suddenly approached her car brandishing weapons beggars belief. Who did she think these people were? A hit squad - dressed up as police? Carjackers - dressed up as police? Just down the street from Obama's pad, in broad daylight, with plenty of people visible in the background? Get real. She knew they were police unless she was suffering from some serious psychological problems.

The video is from LATE in the sequence of events. If I took a video of a fight at a pub and started my camera half way through it would look very different to if I took video from before the first punch.

The eye witnesses confirm that when the woman was originally stopped the secret service agent was wearing NO uniform, approached her car with his gun out and tried to block her way. She reacted sensibly to some random person stepping out in front of her car.

Then subsequently the police did NOTHING to fix the situation. They continued to act in an aggressive and threatening fashion to a woman who was already panicked and in fear of her life. They aggravated a bad situation.

But that simple doesn't excuse what you see on the video, the police firing after the car as it drives away. ... Nobody is being threatened, there's no danger to any of the officers, but they decide that lethal force is required.

The officers then drop the ball in the turning circle. There's clearly one cop car behind her and one in front, but they fail to simply block the exits or box her in... instead they choose lethal force as the ONLY option.

The secret service and police broke the law (yes, they did, the secret service agent was REQUIRED to identify himself.. he didn't), and the police then used unnecessary force on an innocent woman resulting in her death.

As for the allegations of mental illness. Pathetic. There's no source for them, and her previous employer earlier witnessed to her good mental health. This is pure spin and coverup.

Even this headline "tries to ram through White House barricade" is pure nonsense and fabrication. There's not one witness who supports that claim... but instead it keeps getting repeated like it is true.

This is one of the big problems with the U.S. today, people don't know the difference between spin and facts.

As for the allegations of mental illness. Pathetic. There's no source for them, and her previous employer earlier witnessed to her good mental health. This is pure spin and coverup.

Exactly. A good ol' Cover Your A*s operation.

people don't know the difference between spin and facts.

Because they got their "education" from TV shows instead of good school teachers.

wipeoutOct. 05, 2013 - 12:55PM JST You've got a very frigging weird idea of sensible.

Actually I have an OBJECTIVE idea of sensible. Earlier this week there was almost exactly the same situation. An SUV hit a biker (it was the biker's fault for "break-checking" the SUV). Other bikers surrounded the car and one of them approached the car in a threatening fashion and tried to open the door. The driver, in defense of himself, his wife and child, took off, running over several bikers who were blockading the road, seriously injuring one of them.

Everyone, from the cops to judges, agreed that the SUV driver was entirely justified in running over the blocking biker when there was a reasonable threat posed to his family.

... Now we have this situation. Mother in car with child heads up a road, finds it is blocked and starts to turn her car around. Strange guy leaps out with a gun and tries to block her exit. She takes off, hitting him with her car.

Almost EXACTLY the same situation, but in the bikers situation everyone agrees the bikers deserved what they had coming to them, however in this situation the secret service guy magically doesn't?

... Pure and simple bias.

And eye witnesses don't "confirm", they give their version of what they think they saw. It can be true, a lie, misinterpretation, or faulty memory. In other words, reliability varies.

The early eye witness accounts are very similar. There are minor differences, but basically the key facts are all the same, that the secret service guy wasn't wearing a uniform, that he didn't identify himself, that he was holding his gun (although witnesses vary on how "threateningly" he was holding it), and that he tried to stop the car from leaving (again some variation here, some say he tried to use a bike rack to stop them leaving, some say he had a barricade, some just say he obstructed their exit).

When you have several individuals independently giving almost exactly the same version, right after the incident and without time for coaching, cross-contamination, etc, then this IS independent confirmation of the truth.

What you're seeing NOW is increasingly uncertain statements, some clearly fabricated just for attention, and a whole lot of unsourced rumour-mongering (like that she was mentally ill)... those are the lies and spin. Eye witness testimony doesn't improve with age, it isn't like a good wine, it gets worse over time.

wipeoutOct. 05, 2013 - 03:47PM JST

Actually I have an OBJECTIVE idea of sensible. Yeah, doesn't everybody.

Looking at the comments section on this topic I'd have to conclude, "No". It seems that most people believe what they're told to believe, even when later reports cite no name or sources (except possibly "anonymous department source") and completely contradict the earliest eyewitness reports.

I find it mind-blowing that anyone can do that, just erase their memory and believe what they're told to believe. Very 1984.

Traffic policemen in my country often succesfully shoot tires of runaway cars during car chase or block them by police vehicles to prevent a dangerous, erratic driving. Ordinary traffic police, not "high-skilled pros" from units of special forces.

Then they're being dangerously irresponsible with the use of a deadly weapon. Shooting out tires in anything other than a controlled environment can be disastrous as the car can careen, flip, and endanger the lives of everybody in the immediate vicinity. And if the situation was one which could be controlled (like clearing a highway ahead of a dangerous driver) they would have been better off using spike strips which are infinitely more effective at taking out tires and pose no threat of ricochet.

You don't seem to understand that missed shots don't just evaporate into the ether, they keep going until they hit something whether it be a wall, a mailbox, or a person and even then they can ricochet off in an unintended direction. Even if you hit the tires the bullet could still be at play and go hundreds of yards with the left over energy. Firing for a result other than serious injury or death is a great way to unintentionally inflict serious injury or death on an innocent and is grossly irresponsible.

The officers then drop the ball in the turning circle. There's clearly one cop car behind her and one in front, but they fail to simply block the exits or box her in

I think this is about the only thing you got right. They could have had her right there.

This is one of the big problems with the U.S. today, people don't know the difference between spin and facts.

I concur. You've been spinning some good stuff in this thread.

Then they're being dangerously irresponsible with the use of a deadly weapon. Shooting out tires in anything other than a controlled environment can be disastrous as the car can careen, flip, and endanger the lives of everybody in the immediate vicinity. And if the situation was one which could be controlled (like clearing a highway ahead of a dangerous driver) they would have been better off using spike strips which are infinitely more effective at taking out tires and pose no threat of ricochet.

You don't seem to understand that missed shots don't just evaporate into the ether, they keep going until they hit something whether it be a wall, a mailbox, or a person and even then they can ricochet off in an unintended direction. Even if you hit the tires the bullet could still be at play and go hundreds of yards with the left over energy. Firing for a result other than serious injury or death is a great way to unintentionally inflict serious injury or death on an innocent and is grossly irresponsible.

Example of dangerous irresponsibility with the use of a deadly weapon took place recently when a bunch of armed fools shot to death an unarmed, scared or mentally unstable woman in Nissan Infinity. I am quite familiar with firearms, so no need to preach me about ballistics. Speaking about "missing shots" I also recall that one video about chaotic shooting into black car in DC area, filled by tourists and walking bystanders.. Warning shots in air or following shooting on tires in certaing cases are very helpful to stop a runaway car . For instance, to prevent a possible collision with other vehicle on motorway or pedestrians on walkways. In other words, to prevent utterly negative consequences for innocent people.

I am quite familiar with firearms, so no need to preach me about ballistics.

You're the one advocating opening fire in an urban environment on a moving target with unknown intent.

Warning shots in air or following shooting on tires in certaing cases are very helpful to stop a runaway car . For instance, to prevent a possible collision with other vehicle on motorway or pedestrians on walkways. In other words, to prevent utterly negative consequences for innocent people.

That runs counter to all police and security training. I'm sure it looks great on the set of your movie though.

Why didn't they think to deploy a stinger strip? No time to prepare one?

nandakandamandaOct. 08, 2013 - 09:52AM JST Why didn't they think to deploy a stinger strip? No time to prepare one?

My personal theory? Too much testosterone, too little brains, too little training.

You can be any race, any color, nationality, and if you are too stupid, too dumb to understand that after 9/11, the USA is not the same country anymore. You get some idiot fool, trying to muscle their car into the US WHITE HOUSE, I bet you if she were not black, but white, she most likely would also have her brains blown out. Why?? Well, just look at Nairobi, Kenya in Africa. One of the terrible terrorists was an English white woman, the so called White Widow. Now having white folk who are converts to Islam and getting brain washed into Al Qaeda etc..is not that rare, so this time, just some poor woman who supposedly heard Mr.Obama in her head and calling over to the US White House, but next time?? It could be an innocent white woman armed to the teeth and full of explosives who is ready to become a martyr of her god, and KABOOM!!! Better to shoot, make sure that nut case is dead than be sorry and you and up as body parts all over Pennsylvania Avenue, IMHO.

Elbuda MexicanoOct. 09, 2013 - 12:30PM JST You can be any race, any color, nationality, and if you are too stupid, too dumb to understand that after 9/11, the USA is not the same country anymore. You get some idiot fool, trying to muscle their car into the US WHITE HOUSE, I bet you if she were not black, but white, she most likely would also have her brains blown out. Why?? Well, just look at Nairobi, Kenya in Africa. One of the terrible terrorists was an English white woman, the so called White Widow. Now having white folk who are converts to Islam and getting brain washed into Al Qaeda etc..is not that rare, so this time, just some poor woman who supposedly heard Mr.Obama in her head and calling over to the US White House, but next time?? It could be an innocent white woman armed to the teeth and full of explosives who is ready to become a martyr of her god, and KABOOM!!! Better to shoot, make sure that nut case is dead than be sorry and you and up as body parts all over Pennsylvania Avenue, IMHO.

Rampant paranoia.

You want to be safe in the U.S. Elbuda Mexicano? Then perhaps the U.S. should stop torturing and killing people, both domestically and abroad. That would make the U.S. a much safer place.

"A far more reasonable interpretation is that she was lost, drove up the wrong street, came to a barrier and while trying to turn around and head back some stranger with a gun appeared and tried to stop her car. Naturally, in the presence of a clear threat to her life, she acted in self-defense and drove over him. Only a complete and utter idiot would fall for any other interpretation."

For real? Only a complete and utter idiot would offer such an interpretation.

Amused511Oct. 10, 2013 - 10:49AM JST For real? Only a complete and utter idiot would offer such an interpretation.

If you have a better explanation that fits all the facts then I'd love to hear it.

There is probably more to this story than we are being told.

This poor dead woman heard voices of Mr.Obama calling her to the White House, she thought the CIA or NSA had implanted some secret devices into her head, she drove all the way down to the White House and was sure she could meet the president etc..SORRY! If you are nuts, over the coockoos nest etc..and you drive like an idiot trying to bust your way into the US WHITE HOUSE, guess what?? 9/11?? Yes, you will be shot very, extremely DEAD! America can not afford to take anymore chances. Yes, I feel sorry for the nut case woman, but the police did the RIGHT thing. They could not know if she was just a stupid woman or a crazy terrorist, right?? So they had to stop her and they did. Better to be safe than sorry, I always say. And I bet Mr.Obama is happy to know that the DC police etc..are on the ball and wont let any Tom, Dick or Harry the terrorist or nut case just drive up to the US White House and KABOOOMM!! Or ratatataaa or etc....this time just a nutty woman, next time???

Elbuda MexicanoOct. 10, 2013 - 03:11PM JST

I'm sorry Elbuda Mexicano, but your version does not match the facts that we have:

This poor dead woman heard voices of Mr.Obama calling her to the White House, she thought the CIA or NSA had implanted some secret devices into her head,

Miriam Carey was sane. Undeniably so. A few months before this incident her boyfriend had reported her to the police and she was taken for a psych-eval by a state psychiatrist. She passed the psych-eval. She was also seeing a psychiatrist for her postpartum depression, and would have noticed had she exhibited ANY signs of insanity. Instead the psychiatrist was apparently reducing Ms. Carey's medication preparatory to stopping it as Ms. Carey seemed better. This is collaborated by her sisters, her ex-boss and several other witnesses.

The massive weight of evidence is on the side that Ms. Carey was completely sane. With two medical experts, one state and one private, finding her sane.

she drove all the way down to the White House

Yes, she drove to Washington D.C.. We don't know the reasons. She was out of work so it could have been looking for a job. She might also have been taking a holiday. There are numerous possible explanations for why she could have been in D.C.

and was sure she could meet the president etc..SORRY! If you are nuts, over the coockoos nest etc..

Sorry, this is just pure slander. Two medical professionals found her sane. Her sisters said she was sane. Her ex-boss said she was sane. Her ex-coworkers said she was sane. The ex-boyfriend (and the cops he called) had some doubts, but frankly their opinions are irrelevant since we have two medical professionals' opinions.

and you drive like an idiot trying to bust your way into the US WHITE HOUSE, guess what??

Trying to bust into the White house? Actually the civilian eyewitnesses, indicate that, at WORST Ms. Carey bumped the barrier while trying to turn her car and leave when she discovered that there was a barrier crossing the road. So she's not the world's greatest driver. I didn't realize that merited a death sentence in the U.S.

In excuse of her poor driving skills there was a secret service idiot who jumped out with his gun in hand, failed to identify himself, and then tried to block her exit. I can understand how someone with a gun suddenly jumping out might have made Ms. Carey a bit distracted and have led to her lightly bumping the barrier as she made her turn.

She definitely did NOT try to "bust into the White House". How do we know this? Well, those barriers are pretty serious, and hitting one with any force would have definitely resulted in SERIOUS damage to the car. But in the video we can see there is no visible damage to the front of the car. No damage to the car = No ramming barriers, it really is that simple.

The only eyewitness who claims Ms. Carey tried to ram the barriers? Oh, that would be the secret service agent. The one who forgot to identify himself, drew his gun unnecessarily, and started this entire mess by leaving the front series of barriers down. ... and he's got NO reason to lie, right? I mean its not like he's screwed up at least three times and his job is now on the line?

.... and I'm going to ignore the rest of your post Elbuda since it just rants on about how Ms. Carey is nuts (which the evidence clearly indicates isn't true), and how they "had to stop her (no, they didn't, really... if she'd just been allowed to leave this entire incident would probably never have happened), how the DC police are "on the ball" (no, they weren't. they were incapable of subduing a single unarmed mother in a normal car without killing her...), etc.

It seems that most people believe what they're told to believe, even when later reports cite no name or sources (except possibly "anonymous department source") and completely contradict the earliest eyewitness reports.

@Frungy--Bingo. It makes me wonder why people like you and me bother trying to explain things to people while others just seek to lie to them for the sake of controlling them and get treated like royalty for it.

Looks to me like you are the only one who has bothered to research this case and post plain facts rather than imagination and speculation biased toward the authorities and against an immigrant female. As for me, I don't care who they are. I will take the facts any day.

ControlFreakOct. 11, 2013 - 01:06AM JST @Frungy--Bingo. It makes me wonder why people like you and me bother trying to explain things to people while others just seek to lie to them for the sake of controlling them and get treated like royalty for it.

I just don't know where to begin. I blame the media. I'm all for "Freedom of the Press", but I'm also for the Press actually doing their jobs and printing the truth (and being kicked in the bollocks when they don't). Rights are always balanced by Responsibilities, and right now the Press is all about its rights and seems to have forgotten its responsibilities.

I mean just look at the top of this page, "...after car tries to ram through White House barricade". Now I KNOW for a fact that by the time this article was published the video footage of the undamaged car was already doing the rounds on the internet. A half-way responsible journalist would have found that footage and seen that the car wasn't damaged and that clearly no-one had been ramming anything. Instead we end up with this article.... and when it emerges that there was no ramming? ... an ocean of silence from the media.

Call me old-fashioned, but I'm still of the opinion that when the media makes an error, particularly one that is hurtful to the friends and relatives of a deceased individual, the VERY LEAST they can do is print a retraction. ... but here we have the story still in place a week later, with no sign of an apology, retraction or any acknowledgement that they were wrong.

... and it isn't just limited to this case. I've seen literally dozens of examples of this type of irresponsible journalism in the last week alone. No fact-checking, no apologies for mistakes, no taking any sort of responsibility.

I think its time for the press to re-learn responsibility. I sincerely hope that the relatives of this poor woman sue the pants off every newspaper that ran this steaming pile of lies.