More Americans blame Trump for government shutdown: poll

Every article about the shutdown should include quotation of Trump boasting that this is his shutdown.

Showing little sense of urgency over the shutdown, the Senate and the House of Representatives did nothing to restore funding for the roughly 20 percent of the government affected.

That Dems consider the current budget on border security sufficient is obvious, but the fact that a large number of Repubs share the sentiment says a lot. Trump has picked a fight he cannot win. Every budget is chock-full of things you like and dislike, but you go along for the greater good. Opportunities often exist to raise your pet issue later, and if they don't - well, you've chosen the wrong pet issue.

Schopenhauer, you get that those attributes alone aren't qualifying right? That they could just as easily describe Mussolini? I assume "study the pleasure of others" means having empathy, respectfully considering your constituents' concerns, even those who disagree with you, or fundamentally betraying some tinny echo of human decency. Yes, we should all repress any such weaknesses and strut about like roosters.

I blame Trump. mainly because I've always considered this "wall" to be more of a vote grabber than an effective way to control our border. Besides, the Mexicans were supposed to pay for it, right?

He is not afraid of criticism. President who study the pleasure of others is not a good president.

Which must be why Cadet Bonespurs is such a terrible president. Because EVERYTHING the man does, says, or tries is, at its heart, for one reason and one reason only: to maintain his own ego and his own inflated sense that he is loved and admired.

Not a campaign rally could go by without him trying to brag in some way about his 'ratings' or his popularity. He cares about his Nielsen ratings first and foremost, because to him, that means he's popular. He cherry picks the one poll that says he's popular with the American people, ignoring the two dozen others that say nobody's been this unpopular since Nixon.

The worst thing that can happen to Donald Bonespurs is to be criticized or even worse, ignored.

Think about what he does to those who dare to criticize him, especially those who get under his skin and expose him for what he really is, an insecure manchild?

He tries to bully them. He tosses playground insults at him, lapping up the adoration of his ever-shrinking core fans. He gives them childish nicknames.

He's totally afraid of criticism, and he's totally inebriated with the media spotlight and media attention. He might rail against them, but he needs them, he's a junkie to them and to the attention that they bring him.

Which is why, in everything you've said on this discussion, you are correct on only one thing, Schopy. He's not a good president.

Trump is strong. He is not afraid of criticism. President who study the pleasure of others is not a good president.

He is meant to be running the country for the people. A president who rules in contempt of his people is a tyrant.

Of course they do, per his instructions.

Also for your information, BBC top headline is

"US shutdown impasse over Trump's wall drags on"

It's interesting how foreign news media, left news media, and right news media all call it "Trumps Wall". He owns the wall, the shutdown, everything. This isn't America's wall, or the republicans wall, or whatever else you wanna call it. It's "Trump's wall"

"Trump is strong."

Please, please don't confuse ignorance and stubbornness with strength. A child's resolve to get ice cream even though he didn't finish his veggies may appear to be strength, but its just a child being a child.

Yeah, all of this would just go away if Trump got Mexico to pay for the wall like he promised. The master negotiator failed so now he's taking federal employees' paychecks as hostages.

There is a valid reason for the shutdown.

Trump campaigned on Mexico paying for a wall, and is now shutting down the government because America isn't willing to pay for something he never campaigned on, simply because he doesn't want it to be seen just how weak he is for not being able to follow through on his campaign promise. You guys think this is a 'valid reason'. As the polls show, the people don't agree with you.

The people will decide this issue

They sure will.

I bet you haven't looked at how the shutdowns went over the past 30 years, in particular for the team that initiated the shutdown.

I don’t put too much stock in polls, because it’s not issue or an accurate science on anything.

Yes you do. You regularly tout polls from obscure right wing websites and magazines which show that Trump’s approval ratings are nearly 45% (and are under the impression that that is impressive) and even dodgier polls to suggest that Americans support a giant border wall. You just don’t like polls that disagree with you.

Seriously, none of you right-wingers can explain Trump being weak in the knees about Mexico? Why is he so pathetic with Mexico, letting them disrespect him? He said they would pay for the wall, and he told them that, but they refused. Is Mexico really that strong? Is America really that much weaker than Mexico?

at least he’s been and maintains his consistency when it comes to this issue

2015 - 2017: Mexico's going to pay!

2018: America, you must pay!

Yeah, consistency alright.

We don’t “blame” Trump, we applaud him,

Says 20% of the US - those that stay 24/7 in the far right news bubble...

but thanks for nothing Reuters.

If it ain't on Fox, we ain't watching...

Meanwhile the BBC is talking with a lesbian about superhero movies. LOL.

And you must be watching it.....

Meanwhile, over at Fox News...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fox-news-hits-trump-for-turning-troop-visit-into-%e2%80%98campaign-rally%e2%80%99/ar-BBRv6Kg?ocid=ientp

Chuck and Nancy have BIG problems.

Someone doesn't mind looking silly for not reading the article!

They have been obstructing Trump for 2 years and now he is doing it to them.

Um, what? Trump is the one who wants something - it is literally impossible for him to obstruct them on something he wants.

It's like you coming to me and saying 'I'm not going to give you a piece of cake' and I say 'I don't want one', then you say 'hahaha, I'm not letting you have one'.

...um, ok.

Chuck and Nancy were very foolish to put themselves in this position.

They didn't. This is all on Trump:

"If you say who gets fired, it always has to be the top. Problems start from the top, and they have to get solved from the top, and the president’s the leader, and he’s got to get everybody in a room, and he’s got to lead. And he doesn’t do that, he doesn’t like doing that, that’s not his strength."

"when they talk about the government shutdown, they’re going to be talking about the president of the United States, who the president was at that time. They’re not going to be talking about who was the head of the House, the head the Senate, who’s running things in Washington. So I really think the pressure is on the president."

“FACT – the reason why Americans have to worry about a government shutdown is because Obama refuses to pass a budget.”

5 billion for a wall

5 billion for health insurance.

You people would lose it.

And posters here want to hold the Dems up like they’re some kind of righteous politicians.

Saving the American public from a $5 billion boondoggle? They are doing the righteous thing this time.

It's pretty obvious that a simple wall is an albatross and a $5B one at that. Most people aren't going to go for that.

that the public wants border security including a wall.

No.

And if you want to stick with the facts, how about these:

"If you say who gets fired, it always has to be the top. Problems start from the top, and they have to get solved from the top, and the president’s the leader, and he’s got to get everybody in a room, and he’s got to lead. And he doesn’t do that, he doesn’t like doing that, that’s not his strength."

"when they talk about the government shutdown, they’re going to be talking about the president of the United States, who the president was at that time. They’re not going to be talking about who was the head of the House, the head the Senate, who’s running things in Washington. So I really think the pressure is on the president."

“FACT – the reason why Americans have to worry about a government shutdown is because Obama refuses to pass a budget.”

BlacklabelToday  08:44 am JST

There is a valid reason for the shutdown. The people will decide this issue just like they did by electing Trump...

"The people" did not elect Donald Trump. Do you not know how the Electoral College system works? It seems that hardly any Trump supporters do because this is a fallacy they keep repeating.

Funny how they don’t give a breakdown of these polls. Typical of Reuter’s and most of the liberal outlets that claim “the polls say...”

This is called when a poll doesn't fit your two-dimensional thinking, criticize the poll...

If's great to have a President to finally back what he says and not just to move his lips and go back on his word

Mexico will pay for the wall...

I'll release my tax returns...

I'll balance the budget...

I won't take vacations...

and that is very encouraging to his supporters and people that want stronger border security.

If they wanted comprehensive border security they wouldn't want a wall that can be tunneled under or flown over... the wall is just a physical symbol of their anti-immigrant hate...

Today  07:58 am JST

Chuck and Nancy have BIG problems. They have been obstructing Trump for 2 years and now he is doing it to them. It is Chuck and Nancy who have to protect government workers. 

Oh, Insane Wayne, you should know Nancy doesn't take power until February, Grumpy has had TWO years to get his wall paid for with a REPUBLICAN house and Senate, and he still couldn't do it. Some art of the deal guy!!

He's just a loser who was born rich.

Trump should increase his offer to the Democrats if he is serious about his wall.

I think liberals feels the issue is resolved if Trump can be blamed.

No, liberals feel that Trump is making unreasonable demands, and therefore can sit back and wait for Trump to decide to stop being unreasonable. As for blaming Trump - he already did that himself when he was very clear that a shutdown is the responsibility of the president.

Regardless of whose fault it is none of the underlying issues are solved.

Heh, whines the person who supported obstruction of the Obama administration for eight years, with no care as to solving the underlying issues.

So this thing called the “electoral college” isn’t just the results of adding up people’s votes?

No, that's called the popular vote.

Seriously, have you not even bothered to look into this?

Someone can win the electoral college in a state when they get fewer votes from the people who live there than someone else? Didn’t think so.

There is no 'electoral college in a state'. There is the electoral college in America. Only one. And as the Republicans have shown twice in the past 20 years, someone can win even when they get fewer votes than someone else.

Give him his wall. What's the down side?

There are 25 billion downsides.

Which wouldn't matter if he'd just grow some balls and get Mexico to pay for it like he said he would. It's weird he's so weak in the knees about Mexico right now. I wonder if they sent someone to have a chat with him.

@bass

I'm waiting for you you to say "No, I haven't". But here is a poll on how dangerous they are.

47% blame Trump because they're clueless!

No:

"If you say who gets fired, it always has to be the top. Problems start from the top, and they have to get solved from the top, and the president’s the leader, and he’s got to get everybody in a room, and he’s got to lead. And he doesn’t do that, he doesn’t like doing that, that’s not his strength."

"when they talk about the government shutdown, they’re going to be talking about the president of the United States, who the president was at that time. They’re not going to be talking about who was the head of the House, the head the Senate, who’s running things in Washington. So I really think the pressure is on the president."

“FACT – the reason why Americans have to worry about a government shutdown is because Obama refuses to pass a budget.”

47% are just agreeing with Trump that he’s at fault. You people are trying to pretend he didn’t clearly say he would be proud to shut down the government.

You people truly are clueless to reality.

Then why have I been tortured by it on AFN for the past 13 years?

LOL

tortuing yourself. Too funny

I'm glad you agree with me that watching Faux News is torture...

And I am being tortured in Japan, where you incorrectly said it wasn't available.

Too funny, and too wrong...

Bass: No, what I am saying is and as I have stated, we don’t know interest as it was divided between Republicans and Democrats doesn’t mean anything example how many Democrats support trump or how many don’t how many Republican support Trump, how many of those Republicans are Trump supporters or how many on the left side are Trump in the closet supporters?

That’s good. Embrace the humiliation. Service the scammer billionaire like you were born to do.

Trump argues that his wall is needed to stem illegal immigration and drugs entering the country - a key plank in his 2016 presidential campaign.

Shutdown over a wall that was promised while stumping?

 I will have to agree with the Democrats here. No. No wall. And it has nothing to do with politics either. It is just a tremendous waste of tax payer money. It is a bad plan and worse strategy.

I would like to think that I am realist.

Strategically this wall is total B.S. It will not be effective again the Cartels. Period. The major Cartels shipping narcotics into America will do nothing but laugh at this wall. As far as illegals crossing? Marginally effective at best. We do not need to be spending money on a wall. Just repair the existing one and run observation towers every 200 or 300 yards up and down the entire border and do our best to deter crossings. We have technology to monitor our boarders somewhere somehow. If we can fight wars. We can protect our borders.

We need to spend money on eliminating the cartels. We need to give the famers that grow poppy plants and coca plants a better way to farm alternatives and create a market for them to sell that alternative product. Or just legalize everything across the board and see hwere it takes us. As far as immigration is concerned. You must obey the law and come in the right way the legal way. As far as illegals crossing? Well I am sure there is a cost-effective way to stop it. I am all for the drugs to stop pouring in. I am in with stopping illegals from crossing. I am all for deporting those who stay illegally even if they have family in the USA. But a wall? Anyone who has watched any type documentary on the Cartels knows a wall is not going to work no matter how big it is. They only cross large shipments in tunnels, homemade submarines, airdrops, now drones have been used. And trucking/shipping. If there was ever a time that Democrats and Republicans need each other and need to start to work with each other it is NOW under this President!

The President must compromise. There has to be some give and take.

So what's the deal? Why is Trump so weak on Mexico? Is it the 'bad hombres' that make Trump wee in his trousers? Mexico is disrespecting America by refusing to pay for the wall. Trump is too weak to deal with their disrespect. What I don't understand is why the Trumper's are so weak on Trump. I thought they liked tough guys - yet they are ok with Trump bowing before Mexico's superiority when they refused to pay, even though he said they would. I thought Trump was tough. I thought America was tough. America under Trump sure seems to be weak when it comes to Mexico.

SchopenhauerToday 08:30 am JST

America welcome people who stand on their own feet.

So how much of Trump's supposed fortune do you think is actually his own?

Yeah, all of this would just go away if Trump got Mexico to pay for the wall like he promised.

Right? He could make this problem go away so easily if he just got Mexico to pay for it. Why is he being so weak on Mexico? Why is he so scared of Mexico? Maybe those 'bad hombres' scare him a little too much.

He quotes Israel, one of the worst human rights abusers, as a great example of the wall.

I really don't understand why Trump fans don't just go to the middle of the desert and set $25 billion on fire. It accomplishes your goal and then we can reopen the government.

Funny how they don’t give a breakdown of these polls. Typical of Reuter’s and most of the liberal outlets that claim “the polls say...” so how many were polled, which demographics, how many women or men, which age group, Trump haters or supporters etc.

Umm....

The Reuters/Ipsos poll was conducted online in English across the United States. It gathered responses from 2,440 adults, including 946 Democrats and 846 Republicans. It has a credibility interval, a measure of the poll's precision, of two percentage points for the entire sample and four points for members of either political party.

" . . . the president is treating them (federal employees) like poker chips at one of his failed casinos." (Sen. Mark Warner)

Fantastic comparison and spot on.

Yes, but it’s not a “breakdown” so how do we know who was polled? I’m not going to just jump and believe Rueters which like the NYT and most news outlets that lean left poll and larger liberal groups

Again, from the article:

...2,440 adults, including 946 Democrats and 846 Republicans...

Are you saying you want proof that those 846 Republicans were not Rinos or closet Marxists?

Stranger - I thought the number was 5 billion.

Nope. That's just what Trump wants for now, the full cost is 5x that.

it's a drop in the ocean when it comes to money wasted on pork barrel projects and foreign wars.

Nice logic. It can be used as a justification to fund literally anything. "They wasted money there, so that means we must allow them to waste money here".

Claims to not be interested in the blame game:

Not interested in the blame game.

Goes on in the next sentence to blame the left:

Would like to see any positive solutions the Left has to offer. Oh, that's right - there are none.

Sniff sniff, can you smell that? It reeeeeeeks of hypocrisy. An absolutely sickening smell.

As for what you actually said, well your premise is ridiculous. The left is the opposition, solutions are the responsibility of the party in power.

Former ICE supervisor is confident that a barrier along the Mexican border will stop drug smugglers

FACT vast majority of drug smuggled into the US comes in throught its ports, by speed boats, by vehicles and goods exported accross the US / Mexico border roads that are inspected by US border guards, by drones and light aircraft, building a wall wont stop the vast majority of drugs coming into the US.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/25/us/drugs-border-wall.html

The people polled here blame Trump because they see through his nonsense...

He was ready to sign the CR bill that made it through both the Republican House and Senate...

But he got bullied by Laura Ingram and Limbaugh...and cracked....what a wimp....

So after saying he'd own the shutdown and take the mantle, the American public is giving it to him...

This is the Trump Shutdown...brought to you by the idiot, weak, moron who is a danger to the republic...

I spent most of the '90s in San Diego and also went to Baja several times a year, and though I see no relevant connection between my experience and the present debate, for the sake of argument, I can say I have the exact opposite view. Obviously more so b/c of current realities (e.g. illegal immigration was falling even before Trump was elected). In a nutshell, some people want to fearmonger about hugely exaggerated threats and some people want to focus on the more pressing issues of the day.

I daresay most of the people orchestrating the hysteria about the border are thrilled the nation isn't discussing income inequality, which is the worst it's been in a century. Neither party and neither media cares much about that.

No vanity wall for the bigots!

No, I’m not, but let’s focus please and stop saying that, the fact that the border is porous and nothing is being done about it

Yes, you are. I'll stop calling you out when you stop constantly lying. As for the border being porous and nothing happening about it, it's not and things are being done about immigration.

You conservatibes are scared of your own shadows. It causes you to lose track of reality, which is that most undocumented immigrants do not cross the southern border. So, what's you're actual plan for cracking down on undocumented immigrants? Build walls around all airports and ports?

Of course the people blame Trump. The number of Americans who want the wall is a minority. Yet Trump is shutting down the wall for them. Trump campaigned on a wall paid for by Mexico, yet Trump is pushing for it to be paid for by Americans. Trump said he would be proud to shut down the white house over this, and he has. And Trump said the blame for a shutdown rests fully on the shoulders of the president.

The shutdown is Trump's, and only Trump's.

@fizzbit

Yea I totally agree that the media shouldn't exist to form opinions. They should exist to inform people.

But I also think that people should be mature enough to actually read an article and form their own opinions based on their morals and ideals regardless of what the writer chose to say. People who can't do that should probably stay out of political conversations cause they don't really understand what they are talking about.

You do realize that FOX news doesn’t air in Japan right?

Then why have I been tortured by it on AFN for the past 13 years?

Chuck and Nancy CAN'T budge because they would admit that government shut downs hurt them and their base. 

You’re correct that shutdowns hurt the base of the party that does the shutdown.

But as we all know, it’s trump who “proudly” shut down the government.

So he’s the one that can’t budge. And our friend Chuck and Nancy have the support of the American people. I like trump who has never been the choice of the people.

Chuck and Nancy CAN'T budge because they would admit that government shut downs hurt them and their base.

I'm sorry, who promised to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it?  And who agreed to a compromise to keep the govt open before his hard core base turned on him?

The media has to keep telling people a small portion of the government doesn't have funding because people don't notice or care.

?????

Is anyone losing sleep over the TSA possibly getting a late pay check in Feb or Mar ?

Yes, and not only TSA  but all the other federal workers that are taking it in the shorts because our two-year old President was for a funding bill before he was against it.

It is a very bad idea to put 800,000 Americans out of work as a way to try get one's way.

Particularly when it is a result of him being weak, and not being able to follow through on his promise to get Mexico pay for it.

He's clearly peeing his pants in fear of Mexico. Literally weak shaking knees. Those 'bad hombres' really put the fear of god in him, and in his fear, he's trying to pretend it's the fault of the democrats so that people won't pay attention to how weak he is on Mexico.

Why do you Trumpers support someone who is so weak on Mexico? I thought you guys liked a tough guy.

Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? Mueller?

Former ICE supervisor is confident that a barrier along the Mexican border will stop drug smugglers

Well, now we know why is a "former" ICE supervisor....

The wall is not a barrier, it's nothing more than a symbol - in fact it's almost a religious symbol to Trump and his supporters...

I guess its like their "wailing wall"...as in wailing and hoping it keeps all the brown folks out...

Democrats weren't talking about a wall a few years ago, in fact, they weren't even talking about a wall 12 years ago when they decided to improve border security.

I'm not sure why you feel talking about your underage drinking in Tijuana on here legitimizes yourself either.

Meaning, it was safer in those days to visit Mexico and didn’t have the influx of illegals coming into the country as they are now doing.

Not sure how you being able to travel across the border meant it was safer then or that illegal immigrants were fewer. Or how long ago you're talking about.

bass: Discrimination? Loser?? Not really.

A loser is a loser is a loser. And a man who brags about molesting women is a loser.

So Mexico finally decided to pay for the wall?

@bass

No one ever said the wall will completely stop or eliminate border crossings

Trump has said a number of times that it will stop 99.5% of illegal crossings. He's also predicted his wall's success to Jerusalem's wall success rate of 99.9%. That is gonna be a pretty tough pill to swallow if it gets built and we still have problems with border security...From what he is saying, his wall would pretty much solve all problems. You guys both clearly disagree with what he's saying here, yet you still want it?

Clean the swamp !

Has anyone else noticed the Trumpets are having to amend their chants now that the administration is such a disaster? It used to be 'drain the swamp', now they're just hoping to clean it. For a while they were saying Mueller Ain't Got Anything, but now onto that they are appending: ...anything that can get trump indited or maybe get his kids arrested but maybe his kids will be arrested so he'll pardon them but they don't actually have anything on him but you know if they did he would pardon them and he can't be indicted even if he's a criminal, which he's not, but even if he is a criminal he'll just pardon himself.

Black:. What a loser, right?

Yeah. A man who brags about molesting women is a loser in my book. A man who scams people out of money is a loser in my book. A man who engages in discrimination is a loser in my book.

Texas A&M AggieToday 01:27 am JST

The . . . poll was conducted online . . . . including (responses from) 946 Democrats and 846 Republicans. 

Heh, an internet poll that heavily sampled democrats.

It's hardly their fault if there are more Democrats than Republicans.

Calling a sample of less that two thousand voters - probably mostly from both "left" coasts simply isn't representative, wouldn't you agree?

Agreed.

So stop crying in your broken dreams about a duly-elected President in power who may not reflect your political views.

I'm not crying about anything. I simply pointed out an inconvenient fact for those Trump supporters such as yourself who like to bring up the number of votes that Trump got in the 2016 election in order to somehow de-legitimize a poll number or result that they don't like about a given issue. Remember, YOU were the one who brought this up--not me. Therefore, if you decided to poll both the 63 million who voted for Trump and the 66 million people who didn't vote for Trump, would you accept the result?

45 presidents won the electoral college; 45 wannabe losers fell short. Simple as that.

No, it's not because you conveniently didn't mention that five of those 45 presidents didn't win the popular vote and therefore didn't truly reflect the will of the people, and before you give me a lecture about how the U.S. Presidential election system works with the Electoral College, I am well aware of how it works. However, it doesn't mean that I have to agree with it and will speak out against it whenever I like. Given the disastrous results of the last two Republican "Electoral College winners," I'd say that the criticism against it is understandable.

Poll or no poll, this latest stunt by Trump will just add to the sad fact that he's the first president to preside over a government shutdown while his party controlled the House, Senate, and White House. He's also the first president to preside over a shutdown on the first anniversary of his inauguration which was also the earliest shutdown ever in a presidency.

It is a very bad idea to put 800,000 Americans out of work as a way to try get one's way. One could theoretically use this tactic for all sorts of reasons, from wanting a new presidential seal, to wanting a new pair of shoes.

@bass

They never signed on a wall...they signed on "tactical fencing" in high traffic areas and increased border security. There is a big difference.

It was also a decision made for border security, not means of trying to keep hold of political grounding like Trump.

Quote from the Don himself today

This isn’t about the Wall, everybody knows that a Wall will work perfectly (In Israel the Wall works 99.9%). This is only about the Dems not letting Donald Trump & the Republicans have a win.

So he didn't say 100% but I wouldn't notice the .1% difference. I've also never met anyone who thinks talking about themselves in the third person is very smart.

Nobody put a gun toward his head and force him to shut the government down.

I daresay most of the people orchestrating the hysteria about the border are thrilled the nation isn't discussing income inequality, which is the worst it's been in a century. Neither party and neither media cares much about that.

You're correct that neither party cares about income inequality. On most economic issues, the Dems and repubs are not very far apart.

I think the way that it’s going, it would seem the shutdown will be here for a very long while.

I agree. Trump is stubborn to the point of belligerence. I would say that he will take a bigger hit to his approval rating before giving in than previous shutter downers of government would. But give in he will. Look at the history of shutdowns. It never goes well for the instigator.

I have to wonder if Trump is just trying to take attention away from the criminal investigations looking into his other activities. In the coming year we may see he and his family behind bars.

Trump better declare shutdown of the United of States of America, so all states may become independent country just like Europe (EU). America would be AU (American Union).

@bass

Lol, you didn't read the reuters article did you. It includes the political demography for the polls.

DeadforgoodToday  09:58 am JST

@fizzbit

Yea I totally agree that the media shouldn't exist to form opinions. They should exist to inform people.

But I also think that people should be mature enough to actually read an article and form their own opinions based on their morals and ideals regardless of what the writer chose to say. People who can't do that should probably stay out of political conversations cause they don't really understand what they are talking about.

Absolutely. It's not as if anyone's access to Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter or Sean Hannity is being restricted if you want to consider their views.

@castella

I doubt right wing news covered it, or illegal immigrant cop killers either during the Obama era because there was no crazy idea to build a wall and to them it was a non-issue. Your argument is shooting itself in the foot.

Of course Obama wanted border security. Border security doesn't mean "wall" though.

Border guards would disagree. But what do they know? LOL

They are corrupt like the upper echelons of the FBI.

an internet poll that heavily sampled democrats.

In the overall population, Democrats outnumber Republicans by a far higher margin than in this poll.

Wow! So much hatred from many of the posters here. Shouldn't we be able to have a civilized discussion about the issues without verbally attacking the people we don't agree with?

Why Democrat was opposing it now?

They suddenly realized Hey, they will just use ladders, so the wall is stupid. What's wrong with changing your mind? Trump did considering he used to be friends with Hillary.

I'm free to express my opinion that polls such as the one discussed in this topic are eschewed to reflect a desired result. Not necessarily a true gauge of public sentiment.

Agreed.

And you're equally free to express your disagreement with the Electoral College, among other things.

Agreed.

Doesn't change the fact that President Trump won the Electoral College and his opponent failed to win in key states which President Obama had handily won. That in a nutshell is why she lost. By less than a 100,000 votes but nonetheless a loss.

Agreed.

Start with the premise that Donald J. Trump is the duly-elected President of the United States, then we can all have a civil discussion of what he succeeded or failed to achieve in two years, despite not having a super majority of 60 votes in the Senate - including the reasons for a shutdown, the lowest rates of unemployment for females, Blacks and Hispanics, 3-4% economic growth, deregulation, tax cuts, combating opioids, energy production, ISIS, defense and veterans affairs.

Sounds fair to me provided that you are willing to support your beliefs with actual facts from credible sources instead of the usual empty rhetoric that dominates these types of threads. Also, I'm hoping that you can point to specific policies or legislation which you believe is evidence for your statistics because in my prior debates with others, they haven't been able to give them.

Let the games begin.

@schopenhaur

Your description of a leader is the exact image of a dictator...and even I wouldn't go as far as to call Trump a dictator...yet.

@blacklabel

Liberals don't think the issue is resolved by putting the blame on Trump. If that were the case, the government would be open and we would have a deal on the table that both parties can agree as a worthwhile spending of money on good border control.

You keep talking about people murdered by illegals but, the mass majority of murders are carried out by native born citizens. Even right wing media polls admit this. Simply stating one single case doesn't give your argument any weight.

Also, yes a bit concerned about TSA not getting paid.  They are already miserable and surly enough without them not getting paid.  imagine going thru a US airport in next couple of months with them not being paid......

"The wall is not a barrier, it's nothing more than a symbol"

Border guards would disagree. But what do they know? LOL

Sure they do - like these;

President Trump has called for a wall along the border with Mexico to stop undocumented immigrants and drugs from entering the United States. But Border Patrol agents on the front lines say they need more technology and additional personnel to curb the illegal traffic..

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/22/us/politics/border-patrol-wall-immigration-trump-senate-democrats.html

Donald Trump will never become president and the wall will never be built.

Wait...

Been waiting for two years.

The poll would have been more telling had they paired the question with "Do you even care about the government shutdown".

63 million American voters ask, why aren't we ever "polled"?

And 66 million American voters respond, "Because our voices were not listened to in 2016 by an outdated system which has given us two of the biggest disasters as presidents in the last twenty years--both of whom were "elected" by the Electoral College and not the will of the people, so stop crying about not being "polled" because the American public and the world ended up being screwed.

Doesn’t matter whose fault it is.

Oh but it does, because the people are going to get more and more annoyed with Trump for this shut down, since by his own words its his own fault.

Border security is necessary and the government won’t reopen until we get it. Real border security, not how Dems want to interpret that.

Why would they ever do that for a shutdown that Trump is proud to have started, and the people have been shown to have listened to him.

@blacklabel

Yea, but you've only stated one case. And its a case trump and fox news are using to exploit their reasons for why Trumps wall is a good thing. Seems like liberals aren't the only fear mongering folk out there now huh?

Seems like if there was a good reason to build the wall, it would be easier to argue that rather then use a lucky crime incident.

Doubt the cops family wants the news coverage either following the death of a loved one...thanks DT and fox.

Lol, you didn't read the reuters article did you. It includes the political demography for the polls....

Forty-seven percent of adults hold Trump responsible, while 33 percent blame Democrats in Congress, according to the Dec 21-25 poll, conducted mostly after the shutdown began. Seven percent of Americans blamed congressional Republicans.

Yes, but it’s not a “breakdown” so how do we know who was polled? I’m not going to just jump and believe Rueters which like the NYT and most news outlets that lean left poll and larger liberal groups.

Stranger - I thought the number was 5 billion.  Anyway, 5 or 25, it's a drop in the ocean when it comes to money wasted on pork barrel projects and foreign wars.

conducted online in English

Online polls are self-selected and invalid for any purpose except a headline. Same applies to telephone polls since answering machines became common.

The data gathered is flawed, not random. The poll is flawed.

I'm free to express my opinion that polls such as the one discussed in this topic are eschewed to reflect a desired result. Not necessarily a true gauge of public sentiment.

And you're equally free to express your disagreement with the Electoral College, among other things.

Doesn't change the fact that President Trump won the Electoral College and his opponent failed to win in key states which President Obama had handily won. That in a nutshell is why she lost. By less than a 100,000 votes but nonetheless a loss.

Start with the premise that Donald J. Trump is the duly-elected President of the United States, then we can all have a civil discussion of what he succeeded or failed to achieve in two years, despite not having a super majority of 60 votes in the Senate - including the reasons for a shutdown, the lowest rates of unemployment for females, Blacks and Hispanics, 3-4% economic growth, deregulation, tax cuts, combating opioids, energy production, ISIS, defense and veterans affairs.

“I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck. … I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I’m not going to blame you for it.” by Donald Trump, December 11, 2018.

Seems the argument about whom to blame for the government shutdown was settled before the shutdown.

Because Trump is to blame. Period. He even said he owns the shut down and no one else is to blame.

TexasA&amp: "Heh, an internet poll that heavily sampled democrats. No wonder Reuters chose to include those tidbits of information in the last paragraph of this so-called story."

Hey, bud, what party controls the House, Senate, and the Presidency, and to what party does the president belong? And what was it the president said about owning this shut down? Since you have selective amnesia, I'll happily quote it for you: “I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck. … I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I’m not going to blame you for it.” 

So, you're right in a way -- it's probably more like 100% of Americans know for a fact it's Trump's fault, but the uneducated trailer park trash and white supremacists, and it's a known fact a big part of his base are uneducated and/or white supremacists, choose to pretend it's not fact and opt for make-believe instead.

MJGA ! youhave strayed from what made you great so get back on track as we will also. MAGA

More important that Mexico's southern border is fixed.

Much easier to enforce a 500 mile border than one measuring thousands of miles.

The issue is about the veracity of the poll taken; who were the voters polled, from which counties, which states, which demographics. Calling a sample of less that two thousand voters - probably mostly from both "left" coasts simply isn't representative, wouldn't you agree?

So stop crying in your broken dreams about a duly-elected President in power who may not reflect your political views. Donald J Trump is your President until 2020; if re-elected through 2024. 45 presidents won the electoral college; 45 wannabe losers fell short. Simple as that.

Because it’s not “one case”. Liberals say this everytime one case happens while failing to remember the hundreds of other days that had one case” too

Precisely, they don’t matter. So the question is, don’t go for border security and continue the chaos, especially now that we are back to catch and release or fund a wall and fortify and secure our Southern border? No one ever said the wall will completely stop or eliminate border crossings, but it will greatly and significantly slow them down and that’s exactly what you want to make it as difficult as you can to slow these people down and for border security to apprehend these people.

*to be

That’s good. Embrace the humiliation. Service the scammer billionaire like you were born to do

I don’t see any humiliation at all about it, nothing wrong with having money, love it. Very simple, the Democrats don’t want to fund a wall, even though they were definitely for it a few years ago, I get it, they need to grandstand and do whatever it takes to make sure this President doesn’t achieve a win, it’s optical political politics, but since they now are on the side of lawlessness and open borders, it’s good on the President to hold the line and to hold the Dems accountable, at least he’s been and maintains his consistency when it comes to this issue, can’t fault the man for that. If the racists Democrats really cared, they would get rid of sanctuary cities, impose strict laws for people breaking immigration laws, and fund the thoughest border security, but they won’t and their racist policies are not helping the ones that are here to move up.

63 million American voters ask, why aren't we ever "polled"?

Ask a single Republican registered voter if he /she was ever polled.

Huh, Reuters? What about that?

Give him his wall.  What's the down side?

I'm glad you agree with me that watching Faux News is torture...

Well yes, of course. Any 24!hour news is torture.

why?

because they’re all corporate news, controlled by the corporate state. What’s so funny is seeing the lemmings follow this crap.

Meaning, it was safer in those days to visit Mexico and didn’t have the influx of illegals coming into the country as they are now doing. Now the border is a sieve and it needs to be stopped, fortified, better managed and put under strict control.

"The wall is not a barrier, it's nothing more than a symbol"

Border guards would disagree. But what do they know? LOL

Donald Trump will never become president and the wall will never be built. Wait...

Then why have I been tortured by it on AFN for the past 13 years?

LOL

tortuing yourself. Too funny

The polls don't mean nothing, taking a poll in a pro Democrat neighbourhood just to get the answer the anti Trump main stream media want isn't broad based. Trump is far stronger than the opposition want to believe, would not surprise that Trump gets what he wants its certainly something America needs they certainly don't want a open borders policy that Western European leaders have embraced.

Oh, I never said, that would be the end of it, but it will curtail a huge part of the craziness that is happening now. All I’m saying, the Democrats wanted the same thing just a few years ago, but because it’s Trump, giving in to him is giving him a win, you know that, so why would they do it even if they know it makes perfect sense? I used to go to TJ all the time when I was in my late teens to go partying and drinking, it’s the Southern Cali thing to do on Weekends a few times a year, we’ve always seen border crossers that wasn’t anything new, but now, it’s a giant sieve watching the thousands of people that come in and because we can’t keep track of who’s coming in, anyone from anywhere around the would could get in. That’s my point. Yeah, granted Trump is not the most elegant speaker, but as far as his instincts and the stats that he has from the DOJ, Homeland and ICE he understands what is at stake and if you grew up along the border and witnessed what everyone is witnessing and going through, you would be for the wall as well.

Like the way Schumer did last time? We shall see, I doubt it though.

Democrat had voted in favor for "The Secure Fence Act of 2006". Obama, Clinton, Schumer and 23 other Democratic senators voted in favor of the act when it passed in the Senate by a vote of 80 to 19.

Originally, the act called on the Department of Homeland Security to install at least two layers of reinforced fencing along some stretches of the border. That was amended later, however, through the Consolidated Appropriations Act of 2008, which got rid of the double-layer requirement.

Currently, 702 miles of fencing separates the United States from Mexico, according to U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

Why Democrat was opposing it now?

Are Democrat & its supporters opposing everything because of President Trump

It's interesting how foreign news media, left news media, and right news media all call it "Trumps Wall". He owns the wall, the shutdown, everything. This isn't America's wall, or the republicans wall, or whatever else you wanna call it. It's "Trump's wall"

I have no problem with that. It is Trumps wall and his shutdown. The MSM/BBC wants to form opinions, which is NOT their job. Using the word “blame” is illogical.

47% blame Trump because they're clueless!

For the people who think ladders will make a wall totally useless -

Former ICE supervisor is confident that a barrier along the Mexican border will stop drug smugglers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Eo4s4Px60A

Not interested in the blame game. Would like to see any positive solutions the Left has to offer. Oh, that's right - there are none.

Once again, we have to take the Democrats by the hand to show them that much of what Trump is doing at the border is what the Obama administration did. The Obama administration shot tear gas at migrants at the border, they separated children from adults at the border, and guess what; migrants died under the custody of U.S. immigration officials. In fact, a total of 18 migrants died under the Obama regime. And most important of all, Obama wanted border security when he was president.

But we never heard a peep from the Left about that.

Trump is a great president ... keep the gov. Shut down for a year if you have to ... 2 years. Clean the swamp !

I think the way that it’s going, it would seem the shutdown will be here for a very long while. Now what could happen is, once Pelosi gets the votes she needs to become next house speaker and it’s finalized, she may be willing to reach a middle point. I’m just saying. But we shall see, if the Democrats really do want border security or if they just want to keep the floodgates open.

uhuh yet he was elected president of the United States. What a loser, right?

*The . . . poll was conducted online . . . . including (responses from) 946 Democrats and 846 Republicans. *

Heh, an internet poll that heavily sampled democrats. No wonder Reuters chose to include those tidbits of information in the last paragraph of this so-called story.

I don't think President Trump cares about polls. They were dead wrong in their predictions about the 2016 election. Why should he (or we) start to trust them now?

Chuck and Nancy CAN'T budge because they would admit that government shut downs hurt them and their base. The media has to keep telling people a small portion of the government doesn't have funding because people don't notice or care.

Is anyone losing sleep over the TSA possibly getting a late pay check in Feb or Mar ?

Only been 46 such “losers” in the entire history of our country.

Yeah. A man who brags about molesting women is a loser in my book. A man who scams people out of money is a loser in my book. A man who engages in discrimination is a loser in my book

Discrimination? Loser?? Not really. But why is it that liberals always talk about his past? Yes, I understand if he did those things now. Man, if I held a grudge against people that did me wrong in the past.....

It just goes to show, liberals only have that to grab hold on...or Russia...Stormy....running out of things to complain about (yawn).

So this thing called the “electoral college” isn’t just the results of adding up people’s votes?

Someone can win the electoral college in a state when they get fewer votes from the people who live there than someone else? Didn’t think so.

There is a valid reason for the shutdown. The people will decide this issue just like they did by electing Trump when he made this one or his key campaign promises.

No, what I am saying is and as I have stated, we don’t know interest as it was divided between Republicans and Democrats doesn’t mean anything example how many Democrats support trump or how many don’t how many Republican support Trump, how many of those Republicans are Trump supporters or how many on the left side are Trump in the closet supporters? We don’t know how many women what age group, that’s all I’m saying, I don’t put too much stock in polls, because it’s not issue or an accurate science on anything. You can get in the way sort of a roundabout idea, but you can’t completely or definitively say anything to them. So No, I’m not buying into Rueters, since I know how they poll.

Can’t win on facts, so here come the”polls” to try to sway public opinion. Except that the public wants border security including a wall.

5 billion for a wall

892 billion for the military

No shutdown from the Dems there eh? Nope! Nada!

And posters here want to hold the Dems up like they’re some kind of righteous politicians.

Funny how they don’t give a breakdown of these polls. Typical of Reuter’s and most of the liberal outlets that claim “the polls say...” so how many were polled, which demographics, how many women or men, which age group, Trump haters or supporters etc. if you talk a lot of people along the border or people that usually don’t vote or that are afraid to speak out politically it all plays out differently, I do believe there are people that are no doubt angry, but there are people that want the President including myself to hold the line. People that live in Maine are going to have a different outlook on border security than people in El Paso that borders Ciudad Juarez where that city is more dangerous than Afghanistan. If's great to have a President to finally back what he says and not just to move his lips and go back on his word and that is very encouraging to his supporters and people that want stronger border security.

I think liberals feels the issue is resolved if Trump can be blamed. Regardless of whose fault it is none of the underlying issues are solved.

Not like if it’s Trumps “fault” he has to reopen the government without getting the funding we need. Doesn’t give people murdered by illegals their lives back.

America welcome people who stand on their own feet. Those who are likely to become recipients of food stamps are not welcome. Only strong, come to America.

If it ain't on Fox, we ain't watching...

Who are you?

You do realize that FOX news doesn’t air in Japan right?

I don’t watch TeeVee news. Was just curious about the US stock jump so clicked on BBC, Last time I checked, the Congo is not in Europe but that’s all the BBC has been showing for the last 20 minutes.

Doesn’t matter whose fault it is. Border security is necessary and the government won’t reopen until we get it. Real border security, not how Dems want to interpret that.

Someone is going to give in and I can bet you it is going the Democrats.

We don’t “blame” Trump, we applaud him, but thanks for nothing Reuters. Meanwhile the BBC is talking with a lesbian about superhero movies. LOL.

jcapan

One man's gain is one man's loss. You cannot make everybody happy.

Trump is strong. He is not afraid of criticism. President who study the pleasure of others is not a good president.

Chuck and Nancy have BIG problems. They have been obstructing Trump for 2 years and now he is doing it to them. It is Chuck and Nancy who have to protect government workers. Chuck and Nancy are BIG government and BIG government will expect Chuck and Nancy to do whatever it takes to get their salary. Chuck and Nancy were very foolish to put themselves in this position. Trump doesn't have anything to lose while C&N have to protect the image of BIG government. Homeland security isn't exactly popular and very few people will feel any sympathy for them. Bill Clinton could solve this in a snap.