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Pope Francis' 'white flag' comment met by criticism from Ukraine and its allies

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By SUSIE BLANN

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74 Comments

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wow, warmongers out in force this morning

Not enough fellow Vatniks for your liking?

5 ( +8 / -3 )

The act of waving a white flag is considered a symbolic gesture of surrender.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

ThubanToday 06:45 am JST

Zelensky is essentially delusional at this point, he's just throwing Ukrainian men and women into certain death at the front in a pointless war.

Ukraine's independence and economic viability are not pointless.

4 ( +13 / -9 )

What next, throwing holy water, waving braids of garlic, exorcism, Putin is not Dracula.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Sooner rather than later Europe will have to stand together in unity and purpose with Ukraine.

Yes with the risk of escalation, and the risk of conflict unseen in its destructive force.

One man and his band of murderous thuggery must be confronted and laid waste

4 ( +7 / -3 )

There is no appeasing tyrants, despots and dictators.

You stand and you fight, no courage in cowardice, Putin will take full advantage of spineless timidity.

It will provoke more harsh retribution, punishment atrocities.

The neighbouring countries and states will be next to feel Putin jackboot.

Waving a bible or a cross at Putin is meaningless.

Europe has been here before, please take note and wake up to the fact.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

All of you who believe that Ukraine must negotiate a peace settlement believe that Putin will then stop and everything will return to normal. No way. He will just wait, rebuild his forces and then attack again. And he will have the confidence that nobody will oppose him. That is why Poland is so adamant that no peace talks should go ahead as they fear they will be next!

2 ( +8 / -6 )

ThubanToday 07:30 am JST

Everybody wants this war to end, including Ukrainian civilians.

No poll says Ukrainians want to surrender.

Zelensky says he'll keep the war going until all Russian speaking provinces are reconquered by his army, which everybody now knows is impossible given the defensive capabilities of the Russian forces protecting the area.

Sometimes you have demand more than you are willing to settle for in a ceasefire. Putin does this by putting Medvedev out there with all of Ukraine marked as Russia.

The reason the top Ukrainian General was fired by Zelensky is because the General realized that the it was time for Kiev to tap out.

He certainly never said such a thing publicly.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

What is it if not genocide?

Caused entirely by Russia, as is the death of every person in this war.

No amount of excuses about NATO, nazis, etc will ever make it anyone elses fault.

The odium of this is all on Russia and forever will be.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Nobody with real world responsibilities. 

the Pope has no “real world responsibilities”?

you guys are hilarious in trying to wiggle out of what he said. He’s not real! Maybe it’s a mistranslation! His spokesman clarified! Ahhhhhh…short circuited.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Kyiv has put forth a plan for peace: Russia leaves or all Russian soldiers in Ukraine can die. Russia is refusing to meet this peace plan, so all of their dead soldiers in Ukraine are on Russia.

I'm sure the mothers of 1 million dead Russian soldiers must love Putin's war of aggression against NATO.

1 ( +14 / -13 )

Mr KiplingToday 07:26 am JST

The Pope is just speaking the truth. The same truth that Ukrainian generals, now UK ambassadors could see and the same truth both US and European politicians and policy makers are saying in private. Also the same truth that most of the pro Ukraine crowd on JT know. You want Ukraine to push Russia out but you don't really believe its going to happen.

Nobody is saying Ukraine should surrender, which is what you would like.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Blacklabel

Nobody is saying Ukraine should surrender, which is what you would like.

the Pope is saying it.

whats a “white flag” mean?

Read the article:

Vatican spokesman Matteo Bruni on Saturday clarified that the pope supported “a stop to hostilities (and) a truce achieved with the courage of negotiations,” rather than an outright Ukrainian surrender.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The Russians do not acknowledge the authority of the Pope.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

BertieWooster

The Pope happens to be right. There is no way Ukraine can win this.

How do you know?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Kuku

Immediately after the Euromaidan in 2014, American and other advisers and experts began arriving in Ukraine, who trained and supported the AFU militants.

No, they didn't.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

what does a white flag signify?

In MAGA-world it means obedience...

Would think you'd know that as often as Trump waves it at Putin...

0 ( +4 / -4 )

the Pope is saying it.

The Pope is free to surrender his own country and wealth. Ukrainians will fight for their freedom from Russia.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Zelensky says he'll keep the war going until all Russian speaking provinces are reconquered by his army

Yes, Russia must leave Ukraine. That is correct.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

stormcrow - for all intents and purposes, yes, but I would change that a little.

Putin == Hitler

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Uh, "Pope Francis' 'white flag' comment" ...???

He didn't make a "white flag comment."

What exactly did he say?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

The act of waving a white flag is considered a symbolic gesture of surrender.

indeed it is.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Ok I can look forward to your public dismissal of the claims of the Pope being misquoted about a white flag, plus nobody said that, …. when?

You’ve misunderstood yet again.

I’m not starting from the point of believing the pope was misquoted or misunderstood.

I believe he said this and asked the poster to clarify why he or she believes this report is inaccurate.

So far nothing. My position hasn’t changed.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Pope gets it, understands facts on ground in Ukraine

For what reason would an elderly Catholic bureaucrat living in the Vatican have an accurate understanding of the facts on the ground in Ukraine?

He’d probably be better informed than those watching rightwing North American podcasts but my budgie is better informed than that.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

HopeSpringsEternal

Pope gets it, understands facts on ground in Ukraine, 

Pope knows the 'math' of war well

The Pope has absolutely no military experience or knowledge.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Pope of course does not want direct US NATO Russian conflict that will at minimum result in tactical nukes being used

None of us want that. Not even Putin - even he's not crazy enough to trigger Moscow being physically wiped off the planet.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Russia has MORE nukes than the US

But the US has enough nukes to remove Moscow from human existence.

So yeah, no nukes. Even Putin isn't that stupid, so we don't need to be stupid enough to pander to him.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

You can’t negotiate with an evil dictator.

Putin = Hitler

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Eastman

Jimizo

pope have said that conflict have to be stopped by peace negotiations and have urged sides to stop fight and start to talk about peace-long story short

Zelensky already set out a 10-point peace plan.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@Blacklabel and Eastman

I was hoping for more reliable and less partisan posters to clarify here.

Just wondering if Quo Primum was perhaps referring to a mistranslation or something like that.

Always good to double check.

Anyway, this Catholic bureaucrat was told to be quiet by certain people when he spoke out about climate change. He was told to stay in his lane - saving souls etc.

I wonder if the same people have the same approach to this as many of the Moscow midget apologists have the same hymn sheet.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

I was hoping for more reliable and less partisan posters to clarify here.

facts are facts. It’s a direct quote. Sorry that facts hurt your tender feelings.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

I was hoping for more reliable and less partisan posters to clarify here.

facts are facts. It’s a direct quote. Sorry that facts hurt your tender feelings

Just trying to clarify another poster’s claim that what the media reported about Francis’ statement was inaccurate.

I live in a world where facts matter.

This may be unusual to someone with your avatar.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Ok I can look forward to your public dismissal of the claims of the Pope being misquoted about a white flag, plus nobody said that, …. when?

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Nobody is saying Ukraine should surrender, which is what you would like.

the Pope is saying it.

whats a “white flag” mean?

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

Everybody wants this war to end, including Ukrainian civilians.

No, the Russians do not want it to end, or they would accept the Ukrainian conditions, of leaving Ukraine. Clearly they don't want the war to end, as they are unwilling to take the steps to achieve peace.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

Uh, "Pope Francis' 'white flag' comment" ...???

He didn't make a "white flag comment."

The MEDIA used that term.

And now the MEDIA is attributing to Pope Francis a comment that THEY made.

This is unbelievably and disgustingly dishonest, even by the mainstream media's (ahem) "standards."

This is why public opinion of the media, as reflected in more than one recent poll, is so justifiably low.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

"But I think that the strongest one is the one who looks at the situation, thinks about the people and has the courage of the white flag, and negotiates," Francis said, adding that talks should take place with the help of international powers.

"The word negotiate is a courageous word. When you see that you are defeated, that things are not going well, you have to have the courage to negotiate," Francis said.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

"But I think that the strongest one is the one who looks at the situation, thinks about the people and has the courage of the white flag, and negotiates," Francis said, adding that talks should take place with the help of international powers.

"The word negotiate is a courageous word. When you see that you are defeated, that things are not going well, you have to have the courage to negotiate," Francis said.

Sounds like he was speaking to the Russians.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

KukuToday 08:23 am JST

The war in Ukraine is the work of the dirty hands of the "democratic " world

It's a little difficult to square that with the fact that the illegal invasions of Ukraine began within days of the Euromaidan. Russia didn't even bother with a fig leaf.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

EastmanToday 09:20 am JST

get it right-UA as we knew from past is gone so its time to save at least remainings of it and save as much lives as possible.

There is no indication that Putin is ready to stop where he is without subjugating Ukraine.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

you just want slightly different facts, don’t you?

No, I want facts.

If someone makes a claim that someone was misquoted, I want to hear that claim.

That claim hasn’t been backed up yet and I’m prepared to dismiss that claim if it isn’t backed up.

It’s like when someone claims the 2020 election was stolen. I’ll listen to that claim but will dismiss it if it isn’t backed up.

That’s why I dismiss it.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

TaiwanisChina....

He certainly never said such a thing publicly.

Yes he did in a Washington post interview. That is why he was removed and posted to London (with his boxes of cash) as the new ambassador.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Pope of course does not want direct US NATO Russian conflict that will at minimum result in tactical nukes being used, making today's tragic disaster seem very minor.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Pope knows many millions of former Russian speaking Ukrainians, that fought for and achieved independence starting in Ukraine 2014 Civil War and now Russian Federation citizenship, will never go back to Ukraine.

Pope's a pragmatist.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

BlacklabelToday 08:29 am JST

Nobody is saying Ukraine should surrender, which is what you would like.

the Pope is saying it.

whats a “white flag” mean?

Nobody with real world responsibilities. Thanks for the correction.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

BertieWoosterToday 08:18 am JST

The Pope happens to be right. There is no way Ukraine can win this. Better to square up and admit defeat.

People that are familiar with geopolitics know there are different levels of defeat.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

BlacklabelToday 10:30 am JST

Nobody with real world responsibilities. 

the Pope has no “real world responsibilities”?

you guys are hilarious in trying to wiggle out of what he said. He’s not real! Maybe it’s a mistranslation! His spokesman clarified! Ahhhhhh…short circuited.

Yeah that is so difficult sorting out the geopolitics when appointing cardinals. Maybe when appointing them in China.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

I'm sure the mothers of 1 million dead Russian soldiers must love Putin's war of aggression against NATO.

Why not make it 10 million, the narrative will be more convincing...

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Pope is right, Macron is very wrong.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Mr Kipling

He certainly never said such a thing publicly.

Yes he did in a Washington post interview. That is why he was removed and posted to London (with his boxes of cash) as the new ambassador.

You've got your facts all wrong. There was no Washington Post interview. There was an Economist interview.

And he didn't say that it was time for Kiev to tap out. Nothing like it.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Pope gets it, understands facts on ground in Ukraine, Ukraine army has no chance, outside support falling. Current path only leads to greater failed state for Ukraine, as their population collapses as people flee abroad.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

There is no saving Ukraine on the battlefield, the Pope's well advised, not shooting from the hip. So, it's either resolve or escalate, Pope obviously does not want escalation that will involve NATO direct involvement.

Russia has MORE nukes than the US, let's all keep in mind nobody wins WW III, we all lose.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Most don't know, Pope seeks the counsel of many experts, including military experts. Turns out many Catholics enjoy educating him from around the world.

Pope is very well advised, maybe more access to human talent than almost anyone. He's not taking this peace position lightly, just the opposite, he knows Ukraine's now in grave danger of catastrophic collapse.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

I live in a world where facts matter.

and I gave you the facts. In the form of a direct quote.

you just want slightly different facts, don’t you? with a lefty telling you not what was said but what was meant and sugar coated in feelings.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Pope knows the 'math' of war well, Ukraine according to him is pursuing a path that leads to national 'suicide'.

He's right of course, Ukraine's army in tatters, no ability to mobilize sufficient troops, becoming desperate for NATO troops to directly to enter the fray etc.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Russian heavy bombing of Ukraine troops in tactical retreat with these massive glide bombs is simply devasting, far more so than their huge advantage in regular artillery, numbers of troops, etc.

Pope's right, it's not winnable, Ukraine's losing every day.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

He's the Pope. He's got to be pro-life, no matter how scummy the individuals in need of removal like the Russian army.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

The Pope happens to be right. There is no way Ukraine can win this. Better to square up and admit defeat.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

Immediately after the Euromaidan in 2014, American and other advisers and experts began arriving in Ukraine, who trained and supported the AFU militants. With the beginning of the SVO, this situation has intensified.

" It has long been known that unofficially there are experts from NATO and other countries in Ukraine. They partially teach, partially advise. The Americans have been practicing this for decades – first there was Korea, then Vietnam and other conflict zones," ex-member of the Bundestag Armin Hampel said.

The war in Ukraine is the work of the dirty hands of the "democratic " world

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

ThubanToday 09:05 am JST

Ukrainians will fight for their freedom from Russia.

Not voluntarily.

Ukrainians are not volunteering to join Zelensky's army. Millions of men have fled abroad, many of them to Russia, to escape conscription.

The Ukrainian population and parliament is resolutely against lower the draft age to force more young men to fight and die.

It's standard practice for towns and villages to pool money together to bribe Zelensky's draft police to leave local boys alone and sign off on fake medical documents to keep them out of the cannon fodder army.

I'll wager there hasn't been a war in history without draft dodgers. We'll see how "resolute" the parliament is about lowering the draft age when the country's survival is at stake.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

“Spokesman clarified”

afrer backlash.

what does a white flag signify?

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Strangerland...

Kyiv has put forth a fantasy for peace:

There is no way Ukraine can expel the Russians militarily. They lack man power and resources. Their best chance, the great spring "offensive" failed miserably.

The Pope is just speaking the truth. The same truth that Ukrainian generals, now UK ambassadors could see and the same truth both US and European politicians and policy makers are saying in private. Also the same truth that most of the pro Ukraine crowd on JT know. You want Ukraine to push Russia out but you don't really believe its going to happen.

-7 ( +8 / -15 )

You will be next,if you have no response to Russian,only the US has this capability

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

wow, warmongers out in force this morning

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

No church pro Russian or Ukrainain should not be in the business of facilitation war

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

Vatican spokesman Matteo Bruni on Saturday clarified that the pope supported “a stop to hostilities (and) a truce achieved with the courage of negotiations,” rather than an outright Ukrainian surrender. Bruni said that the journalist interviewing Francis used the term “white flag” in the question that prompted the controversial remarks.

It's good the adults in the room realize only a truce is possible while bloodthirsty Putin remains.

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

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