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Pope stunned by wave of anti-Christian violence

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Yet it seems he is never stunned by violence from people calling themselves Christians.

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Yet it seems he is never stunned by violence from people calling themselves Christians.

Well I don't see to many Christians trying to blow people up or stabbing them for writing books or drawing pictures or even being critical of the Christian religion like we see on here. You have the freedom to criticize here but not if it's poor poor pitiful Islam.

You don't quite often hear "God is Great" as mass murder is conducted in the name of Christianity. Unless of course it's in Arabic. Must be those Christians in Iraq that are POed for being invaded by a Western power. How many Christian groups are in the insurgency? How many heads did they cut off? Oh the reality! The Reality!!

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runwithscissors: Yet it seems he is never stunned by violence from people calling themselves Christians.

He's probably never stunned by the violence from people who love hamburgers, either.

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If the pope is "stunned" by this, he has been firmly asleep until now. Violence against Christians and other disbelievers has been routine in the islamic world for a long time.

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rumwithscissors:

" Yet it seems he is never stunned by violence from people calling themselves Christians. "

All you saying is that you have never listened to anything he says.

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The Vatican needs to wake up. Did they just realize this? Or maybe they just realized the anti-Christian movement was not limited to the media.

Yet it seems he is never stunned by violence from people calling themselves Christians.

runwithsushi - what's your point? Is there a Christian holy war going on? Nope. Is there a radical Islamofascist jihad? Yes.

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The main problem has to do with the Middle East

Totally agree.

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FruitsBasketFan,

Just because in the Middle East is a couple of hundred years behind Europe "Christianity used to be that way until secularism was enforced by European governments in the 19-20th centuries" then does the world have to sit back and let these mass murdering religious nutters do their thing until they catch up to christianity??

And WTF does the pope toning down the touchy feelies in the church have to do with muslims slaughtering christians because they are of a different religion?

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...muslims slaughtering christians because they are of a different religion?

I'm not so sure Muslims are behind these attacks. Actually, I'd be surprised if they were. I can think of some people who would be delighted to have Christians and Muslims fight each other.

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Yeah you are probably right, its the same people who killed JFK, and are hiding Elvis and UFO's. Sarcasm intended.

You have to be joking Al Qaeda said they where going to attack christians in Iraq and Egypt at christmas (and attacks happened). Al Qaeda is based around muslim groups so really you think muslims werent behind it? Interesting

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mikehuntez: "Well I don't see to many Christians trying to blow people up or stabbing them for writing books or drawing pictures or even being critical of the Christian religion like we see on here."

There are plenty of examples of Christians committing violence in the name of their god, and just like with Islam, where radicals praise other radicals, people will say that what the person did was 'good'. Bombing abortion clinics is but one example.

Regardless, I wonder why the pope is surprised by this: you make another religion the whipping boy of the last decade and it shouldn't be a shocker that they're going to fight back. Apparently people have forgotten the axiom that 'violence begets violence', or even 'do unto others what you would have done unto yourself'. Hell, even 'you reap what you sow' works here.

There has been little or no attempts at understanding by either religion, and that's what's bearing fruit here.

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sabiwabi, although there is possible truth in what you say, I highly doubt anyone would blow themselves up to achieve this. It would have to be a remote-controlled device.

If there are heads popping off and being retrieved for analysis afterwards, you can bet it wasn't any of the people you are inferring.

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There are plenty of examples of Christians committing violence in the name of their god, and just like with Islam, where radicals praise other radicals, people will say that what the person did was 'good'. Bombing abortion clinics is but one example.

Yeah, bombing abortion clinics. Thats pretty much an everyday occurrence throughout the world by Christians right? Ah, actually wait when was the last time one of them happened? And sure, theres the occasional murder of an abortion doc by some nutter... Ah again thats happens how often? Lets contrast this shall we? How often do you hear about Islamic violence and how often Christian violence? Yeah, is what I thought.

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Now, you are putting words in my mouth AdamB!

I never said anything about approving what some of those radicals are doing.

And manfromamerica.....way to not quite the whole thing.

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"Quote" I mean......not "quite"

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I have no opposition against stopping terrorism...but what I am against is generalizing and profiling.

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FruitsBasketFan, For the record l wasnt putting words in your mouth, l merely used your quote. And l never claimed that you said you approved please reread my post

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I think that the separation of Church and State tends to obscure the extent to which Christianity pushes its agenda on the world. The intent may be benign but the effect is not always so. It is not so stunning that some people conflate Christianity with The West and regard it as a viper in their bosom.

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regard it as a viper in their bosom.

???

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sabiwabi -

I'm not so sure Muslims are behind these attacks. Actually, I'd be surprised if they were.

Really? OK, who do you think was behind it?

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ahhh sabiwabi:

. I can think of some people who would be delighted to have Christians and Muslims fight each other.

Let me guess... the Zionists???

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How naive...why WOULD you be shocked ?

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smithinjapan: I wonder why the pope is surprised by this: you make another religion the whipping boy of the last decade and it shouldn't be a shocker that they're going to fight back.

Christians in the Middle East have made Muslims in the Middle East their whipping boy for the last decade? News to me.

I think you're trying to work in the angle of Western nations while forgetting that these are Arabs killing Arabs in Arab countries.

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Molenir: "And sure, theres the occasional murder of an abortion doc by some nutter..."

It's always a 'nutter' when a Christian commits atrocity, but you'll never cease hearing Christians claim all of Islam is the problem when a Muslim commits an act of violence. I always find the hypocrisy incredibly amusing, if not sad.

SuperLib: "Christians in the Middle East have made Muslims in the Middle East their whipping boy for the last decade? News to me."

Christians in the ME are the recent target of radical Islamists because it's a lot easier to strike them there. You know full well that world-wide Muslims have been the whipping boy of the last decade -- I believe you've even participated in the discrimination on certain threads. Molenir is a prime example of someone who blames all Muslims for the acts of a very, very few, but is quick to jump up and proclaim that when a Christian commits an act of violence he/she is a lone 'nut'. That is the exact kind of thinking that is leading to this reaction and increasing violence against Christians. But hey, they'll say in the eyes of god they are correct -- exactly like the radical Muslims will -- and that fighting back will be god's will -- exactly like the radical Muslims will -- and so watch it escalate.

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Radical Muslims will say it's the fault of Christians, radical Christians will say it's the fault of Muslims. Anyone objective enough to take a step back can see that both are just poor, insecure little children.

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Radical Muslims will say it's the fault of Christians, radical Christians will say it's the fault of Muslims.

who are these "radical christians" blowing up Muslims? There aren't any.

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Radical Muslims will say it's the fault of Christians, radical Christians will say it's the fault of Muslims. Anyone objective enough to take a step back can see that both are just poor, insecure little children.

I think the insecure little children are the ppl on here saying both sides are the same.I call them 'equalists', because they have a stubbornly childish need to keep it all relative. In their world one incident of guy who kills a doctor running an abortion clinic is equal to a Muslim fanatic killing dozens of innocent people with a suicide bomb. The Christian radical basically rejected Christ in killing another.He was no longer Christian in that moment. The Muslim fanatic on the other hand followed clearly presented precepts of his religion.

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smithjapan:

" Christians in the ME are the recent target of radical Islamists because it's a lot easier to strike them there. "

Not true. Christians in ME (and everywhere else in the islamic world) have been been on the receiving end of discrimination for a very long time. What is recent is only that this issue starts to an itsy bitsy smidgen of media coverage.

" You know full well that world-wide Muslims have been the whipping boy of the last decade "

Right out of your imagination. Fact is, the media and politicians are dominated by islamopoligists, who try every possible distortion in order to separate the islamic terrorists from their ideology.

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sabiwabi:

" I'm not so sure Muslims are behind these attacks. "

But of course, it must be the Mossad! I was waiting for someone to come up with that, LOL

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Well, maybe they have heard about Lt. Colonel Gary Hensley saying: “We hunt people for Jesus.” At the time he said those words, he was the top Army chaplain in Afghanistan, giving a sermon at Bagram Air Base.

“We hunt people for Jesus.” Yep, that would do it...

Evangelical troops at Bagram are also distributing New Testaments in Pashto and Dari so those people see invaders, proselytizing, talking about hunting them for Jesus and it probably doesn't take long to take the step of saying ALL Christians are after them even though only some Christian extremist U.S. soldiers are really guilty of that crime.

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manfromamerica:

" The main problem has to do with the Middle East --- Totally agree. "

So, when Philippino jihadists murder Philippino Christians in Mindanao, when Thai jihadists murder Thai buddhists in Narawat, when Nigerian jihadists murder Nigerian Christians in Nigeria, or when British jihadists splatter British subway riders on the walls, then the "main problem" is that it has to do with the Middle East?

How so???

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All I know is facing a group of these mythical radical Christians I would implore them to treat me as the founder of xtianity treated others.That would lead to the best possible outcome imaginable.

But facing a group of radical Muslims , which is the far, far more likely event, asking them treat me, the non-believer, as the founder of their religion did would be the very worst thing I could do.

Even the equalists here have to admit that.

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“We shouldn’t let our minds be limited by theories that always only go so far and that, if we look carefully, aren’t at all in contradiction with faith but do not succeed in explaining the ultimate sense of reality,” the pope said

What a silly statement. If religions were in possession of the "ultimate sense of reality" then science wouldn't have been consistently disproving various religious beliefs for the last couple of millenia or so.

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Well, maybe they have heard about Lt. Colonel Gary Hensley saying: “We hunt people for Jesus.” At the time he said those words, he was the top Army chaplain in Afghanistan, giving a sermon at Bagram Air Base.

You do know that is called "Missionary Work" and looking for converts to Christianity don't you? It's what Chaplains and other Preachers....ummmm actually really do for a living.

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manfromamerica:

Are you complaining about the pronoun or do you just not understand the meaning of the phrase?

Until the recent misadventure in Iraq, Egypt was the number two recipient of US foreign aid, aid which it would not have received absent its recognition of Israel (former number one recipient) and its agreeable position on Palestine and Hamas. Given that US support for Israel is not received with overwhelming enthusiasm in Europe, it is hardly surprising that it might be less appreciated in Egypt--reviled even.

Islam is the state religion of Egypt. It wouldn't even take al-Qaeda provocation to foment resentment against anything associated with Western civilization. Look at anti-Muslim sentiment and consider that many citizens of European nations have a growing sense that they have been much too nourishing to a foreign culture. In other words, "and this is the thanks we get after all we've done for them, too."

England, Sweden, France, The Netherlands--you'll find that "viper in their bosom" there. Why would it be surprising that it shows up in another form in another culture?

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You do know that is called "Missionary Work" and looking for converts to Christianity don't you? It's what Chaplains and other Preachers....ummmm actually really do for a living.

You do know that a Lt Colonel is a high-ranking officer, don't you?

You do know that it is against military rules to proselytize, don't you?

You do know it is a crime in Afghanistan to attempt to convert anyone from Islam to any other religion, don't you?

You do know that a chaplain's responsibilities are caring for the spiritual well-being of soldiers, their families and that of their assigned units wherever they may train or deploy, don't you?

You do know that they also assist with chapel-based care at their assigned posts, perform religious ceremonies, rituals, and rites in accordance with their respective faiths, don't you?

You do know that nowhere in their job description is there mention of missionary work, don't you?

Sorry, what was your point again?

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@pw

The Chaplin in question was not trying to convert Muslims as they were not the audience for his sermon now were they?

Now where is the difference between spiritual care on proselytizing? Now that's a good question...

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Junnama,

Use a dictionary and check the meaning of proselytize and I'm sure you'll get your answer...

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Err, I know the meaning bro. That's not the point.

I could drag on the point and say you know little about being in a combat zone and what sort of moral comfort soldiers need, but even that's not the point.

Where is the line between the two. It's not so clear..,

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The word "convert" is a good place to draw the line, I think. Where would you draw the line?

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When you provide comfort are you not converting? When you attend to spiritual needs are you not converting? Is this not incredibly easy to grasp?

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No, and No and No.

I'm an atheist, but I can still comfort people. I don't convert them to my beliefs.

When I talk to someone about their fears and loneliness, especially when I am talking to people who are going to die, I am not trying to convert them to my beliefs.

Sorry but I have to get going so we'll have to continue this one later.

Cheers.

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Anyway, what is this light bird saying to troops who are troubled by death, combat, and killing? It's Gods will that this happens so don't question? Follow your orders and do your job and God will forgive? His audience is Christian for sure.

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Peacewarrior: Evangelical troops at Bagram are also distributing New Testaments in Pashto and Dari so those people see invaders, proselytizing, talking about hunting them for Jesus and it probably doesn't take long to take the step of saying ALL Christians are after them even though only some Christian extremist U.S. soldiers are really guilty of that crime.

OK, I think I get it. One quote from one person and a handful of "Christian Army soldiers" is creating a situation where Islamic radicals are slaughtering innocent Christians with threats of more to come. Oh gosh, when will the victimization of Muslims ever stop?

smithinjapan: I believe you've even participated in the discrimination on certain threads. Molenir is a prime example of someone who blames all Muslims for the acts of a very, very few, but is quick to jump up and proclaim that when a Christian commits an act of violence he/she is a lone 'nut'. That is the exact kind of thinking that is leading to this reaction and increasing violence against Christians

Just utter nonsense from someone who says things just because he can say them. Please give me some examples where I've discriminated against Muslims. Time and time again I've made the case that Islamic radicals do not represent real Islam and you damn well know it.

On the other hand, just about every single misdeed done by US soldiers has you falling over yourself to make the case that the entire US military are racist thugs. An innocent killed by the US Amry? Well that's just standard operating procedure from people who scrape the bottom of the barrel.

Your claims of abortion clinic bombings is just another example of your endless nonsense. Imagine if tomorrow's headline is about a mall shooting in the US and someone actually says that it's not fair to single out the US because mall shootings have happened in other countries. You'd laugh your ass off. Yet you come on here and pretend that a daily terrorist bombing is offset by a handful of abortion clinic bombings over decades. At the end of the day it's just impossible for someone to believe that you actually believe the things you say. It's not about someone saying something they really believe, it's someone who has torched their credibility to a crisp all so he can avoid reality.

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You don't quite often hear "God is Great" as mass murder is conducted in the name of Christianity. Unless of course it's in Arabic ... How many heads did they cut off? Oh the reality! The Reality!!

An interesting question, how many Sudanese, Congo and Ugandan hands, nose and breasts of mothers has the "lord's resistance army" cut off in the name of God? Let me guess becuase they don't speak English, they aren't Christian?

A moot point anyways, people are killing and using religion as a way to justify it, when in fact the underling reasons are far different. Human nature not religion is killing people, it's no different then "liberating" a country in the name of democracy and trying to force democracy on those countries, even though they don't want it.

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Good Jorb:

" An interesting question, how many Sudanese, Congo and Ugandan hands, nose and breasts of mothers has the "lord's resistance army" cut off in the name of God? "

The "Lords Resistance armee" is a local Ugandan gang with no ideological lineage and world-wide ambition. That is a ridiculous comparison to the jihadist groups around the world who a clear source (the koran and haddiths) and a clear, world-wide vision (the Caliphate).

Apples and oranges.

The world-wide push for ever more Sharia low, enforced by terror threats, does not come from Uganda.

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Peacewarrior:

" Evangelical troops at Bagram are also distributing New Testaments in Pashto and Dari "

That is a ridiculous claim. Firstly, it is absolutely against official US policy (remember, the US armed forces BURNED thousands of bibles that christian activists had managed to donate to them), and secondly even they managed to smuggle in a few, that would only get them killed, as well as any potential converts. Remember, apostacy is punishable by death in Afghanistan, true to Sharia law.

Same principle applies all over the muslim world: You can convert to islam any time, immediately, but never from it.

And the pope is "stunned"...

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That is a ridiculous comparison to the jihadist groups around the world who a clear source (the koran and haddiths) and a clear, world-wide vision (the Caliphate).

Jihadist groups are just better financed. Joseph Kony, the leader of LRA beleived he was a prophet of god and created the Uganda Christian Democratic Army (followers he inherited from his aunty) which became the LRA and the armies goal was to liberate the Acholi which they beleived would start paradise on earth. Had they been sucessful, they would have started "liberating" other countries and brought them paradise on earth to other countries. (a clear ideological lineage)

Democracy at gun point, religion at a knife's edge, liberation by liberating body parts. All violence be it anti anything has the same roots, human nature.

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You do know that a Lt Colonel is a high-ranking officer, don't you?

Yup

You do know that it is against military rules to proselytize, don't you?

Yup

You do know it is a crime in Afghanistan to attempt to convert anyone from Islam to any other religion, don't you?

Yup

You do know that a chaplain's responsibilities are caring for the spiritual well-being of soldiers, their families and that of their assigned units wherever they may train or deploy, don't you?

Yup

You do know that they also assist with chapel-based care at their assigned posts, perform religious ceremonies, rituals, and rites in accordance with their respective faiths, don't you?

Yup

You do know that nowhere in their job description is there mention of missionary work, don't you?

Nope....Witnessing for Christ is pretty much what they do.

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Peacewarrior: Evangelical troops at Bagram are also distributing New Testaments in Pashto and Dari so those people see invaders, proselytizing, talking about hunting them for Jesus and it probably doesn't take long to take the step of saying ALL Christians are after them even though only some Christian extremist U.S. soldiers are really guilty of that crime.

OK, I think I get it. One quote from one person and a handful of "Christian Army soldiers" is creating a situation where Islamic radicals are slaughtering innocent Christians with threats of more to come. Oh gosh, when will the victimization of Muslims ever stop?

smithinjapan: I believe you've even participated in the discrimination on certain threads. Molenir is a prime example of someone who blames all Muslims for the acts of a very, very few, but is quick to jump up and proclaim that when a Christian commits an act of violence he/she is a lone 'nut'. That is the exact kind of thinking that is leading to this reaction and increasing violence against Christians

Just utter nonsense from someone who says things just because he can say them. Please give me some examples where I've discriminated against Muslims. Time and time again I've made the case that Islamic radicals do not represent real Islam and you damn well know it.

On the other hand, just about every single misdeed done by US soldiers has you falling over yourself to make the case that the entire US military are racist thugs. An innocent killed by the US Army? Well that's just standard operating procedure from people who scrape the bottom of the barrel.

Your claims of abortion clinic bombings is just another example of your endless nonsense. Imagine if tomorrow's headline is about a mall shooting in the US and someone actually says that it's not fair to single out the US because mall shootings have happened in other countries. You'd laugh your ass off. Yet you come on here and pretend that a daily terrorist bombing is offset by a handful of abortion clinic bombings over decades. At the end of the day it's just impossible for someone to believe that you actually believe the things you say. It's not about someone saying something they really believe, it's someone who has torched their credibility to a crisp all so he can avoid reality.

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That is a ridiculous claim.

Instead of saying it is ridiculous, why don't you check it for yourself before making ridiculous statements like that? The bibles existed, they were in the Afghan languages. They were specifically sent to be given as "gifts" to the Afghan people.

It was shown on AlJazeera, it was seen by their viewers. They saw it and probably drew their own conclusions. Damage was done. The bibles were confiscated after the Inside Story news clip showing them getting ready to distribute them and the highest ranking chaplain in the U.S. military in the area talking about "hunting" people for Jesus.

It's much the same as when people watching Faux News propaganda start thinking that ALL Muslims are evil because of the actions of a few. You can even find this idiotic attitude here on JT with unnerving frequency and that's coming from supposedly educated and thought-capable westerners. What do you think uneducated Afghans, Egyptians, or Nigerians would make with a story like that? Religion will often render people stupid when they feel their beliefs are attacked.

Nope....Witnessing for Christ is pretty much what they do.

What part of NO PROSELYTIZING in the U.S. military do you not understand?

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"It's much the same as when people watching Faux News propaganda start thinking that ALL Muslims are evil because of the actions of a few. You can even find this idiotic attitude here on JT with unnerving frequency and that's coming from supposedly educated and thought-capable westerners"

it is also very idiotic to think Faux is where the majority of Americans suspicious of Muslims get their suspicions.As far as I can tell the news shows on that network get about 3 million viewers, and many are independents and even Democrats. Less than 2 percent of the adult electorate, IOW.

What part of NO PROSELYTIZING in the U.S. military do you not understand?

What does one story about a US chaplain in Afgahnastan hav to do with waves of violence against Christians (actually, the Pope should have included all non-Muslims) in Nigeria and Iraq and Egypt?

Because it seems to me that peacewarrior is trying to tell us Muslims far outside of Afghanistan do not actually identify with the country they were born into or even believe in nation-states; they regard themselves as One, and have an agenda along such lines....

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The Pope has France's Pres. Sarkozy in agreement

PARIS - French President Nicolas Sarkozy said Friday that Christian minorities in the Middle East are victims of "religious cleansing", following deadly attacks on churches in the region.

"We cannot accept and thereby facilitate what looks more and more like a particularly wicked programme of cleansing in the Middle East, religious cleansing," he said in an annual New Year's address to religious leaders.

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Good Jorb:

" Jihadist groups are just better financed. "

Saudi Arabia certainly does finance jihadist groups, but that is not the core or their belief. Look around the world, and you find jihadist groups spring up everywhere where radical, literal islam is taught. Financing or no financing.

" Joseph Kony, the leader of LRA beleived he was a prophet of god "

You can hold it right there. If he presents himself as a new prophet of god, you can not parade him as an example of a "Christian" leader. Nice try, but no banana.

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The Pope is right in what he said about this world not happening by chance. It is thye work of the Creator, like he said. If he continued to read his Bibkle, he would also see that the current wave of violence against Christians is nothing new. In fact, the Bible says that this kind of thing will incfreas as the End approaches.

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SolidariTea-But facing a group of radical Muslims , which is the far, far more likely event, asking them treat me, the non-believer, as the founder of their religion did would be the very worst thing I could do.

Agreed. They would make you pay a tax and spare your life. LOL

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You know, just because someone shouts "God is great!" before some violent act does not mean the act was done for Islam. It does not make it any more done for Islam than when a Catholic prays and counts Rosary beads before a battle.

Its pretty easy to view the small time violence against Christians as a Muslim thing if you really really want to. Its is also easy for certain people to overlook the small time violence done by Christians against Muslims before this wave of attacks, and that despite the success of Christians to cause even more death. See the Jos riots and the Yelwa massacre. Or don't. Then you can feign surprise right along with the Pope.

But to overlook the large scale violence done by foreign Christians to Muslims in their own countries and try to claim it somehow doesn't count? That is willful ignorance of an asinine scale.

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I think a lot of believers of islam see what the US & its allies have done in Iraq & Afghanistan as at least connected with christianity, so there is an example of a lot of death connected with christianity.

Even with the separation of church & state, its really not that separate now is it, I mean come on the US went way off on a tangent in Afghanistan, it shud have bloody just stuck to hunting down osama & then got the hell outta there, but now they are in deep & cant get out easily

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"But to overlook the large scale violence done by foreign Christians to Muslims in their own countries and try to claim it somehow doesn't count? That is willful ignorance of an asinine scale."

I assume this unexplained broadside refers to the US Army, who, yes, have killed a lot of jihad crazies in Iraq and Afghanistan. But they are not fighting in the name of Christianity. And why do you always need to insult readers here? IS it because even you recognize you are wrong on this issue also?

You know, just because someone shouts "God is great!" before some violent act does not mean the act was done for Islam.

In a historical context, yes, it does. You have not studied the Koran or the history of Islamic imperialism so you do not understand this. A lot of these weirdos leave behind video testimonials. They state very clearly that they kill for religious reasons.

It is hard for America haters and opponents of free markets and globalization to take a stand on issues likke this, since it puts them on the side of ordinary Americans, Europeans, Israelis, Nigerians and so forth, who just want radical Islam, if not Islam altogether, to go away.Leave us in peace.

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SolidariTea: What does one story about a US chaplain in Afgahnastan hav to do with waves of violence against Christians (actually, the Pope should have included all non-Muslims) in Nigeria and Iraq and Egypt?

I think the goal is to take the actions of one man and apply it to a large group of people while arguing that you shouldn't take the acts of thousands of people and apply it to a large group of people. Or something like that.

In reality he's doing a lot more harm than good. I've said time and time again that Islam itself isn't the problem but I cringe when I hear people who probably support my point of view debating the way PeaceWarrior does. It just sounds so silly and undercuts very valid reasoning that Islam isn't the problem, it's the people who abuse Islam.

Terrorists aren't real Muslims. They are people who kill in the name of Islam whether Islam likes it or not. Through the abuse of religion they are able to brainwash people into doing their bidding. If Islam really were the problem then you'd have a billion or so terrorists. But there aren't.

The "lone nut" Christian killer is just that. He's acting alone. He didn't fly to Texas to get training then get funding from a church in Idaho while getting plans from contacts in Alabama and Mississippi. And he's not going to Europe to kill Muslims because he heard about Christians being killed in Iraq. His mind went rogue all on it's own without training or help from an established network.

Finally, the whole thing about "Christians invading" is just more smoke and mirrors. There's a difference between killing for Christianity and being a soldier involved in war who just happens to be Christian. I'm sure they just happen to like hamburgers too but they aren't considered to be the "Hamburger invaders." Military plans aren't drawn up according to the Bible.

So no, Islam isn't the problem and it's not the cause of terrorism, and no, no one buys some BS argument that "Christians" are killing people and terrorism against Christians is some kind of logical reaction.

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But they are not fighting in the name of Christianity

Keep telling yourself that. Politics, economics, enjoyment of power, and religion too are all part of the equation on boths sides almost anytime there is a war. (exceptions exist, but not this time).

A lot of these weirdos leave behind video testimonials. They state very clearly that they kill for religious reasons.

Some may actually believe it too. For others, its a recruitment scam. But trying to make believe that people fighting invaders in their countries is purely an offensive attack for religious purposes is nutso. You are lost in a web of words, and you believe everything every leader says. Not every goal is stated. Each group chooses what it emphasizes differently, but in the end its all there. In the end, its all lies and people getting suckered for political, economic, and religious reasons, and maybe their own hunger for violence too.

The only real difference between the Christian warrior and the Muslim warrior is that the Christian warrior does not wear religion on his sleeve. But the only real reason is to differentiate himself from the Muslim warrior. I am not fooled. Christianity is still a huge part of politics in western countries. Its a driving force, even if you prefer not to talk about it. It may not drive western nations as much as Islam drives M.E. nations, but our overseas war efforts would be considerably weaker without it. Its spread thinner, but that is made up for by the area its spread over and the body count.

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The only real difference between the Christian warrior and the Muslim warrior is that the Christian warrior does not wear religion on his sleeve. But the only real reason is to differentiate himself from the Muslim warrior. I am not fooled. Christianity is still a huge part of politics in western countries. Its a driving force, even if you prefer not to talk about it. It may not drive western nations as much as Islam drives M.E. nations, but our overseas war efforts would be considerably weaker without it.

Wow, talk about complete nonsense. Christian warriors? Are you talking about missionaries, because I guess they qualify. I can only assume from what you've said, though that you are in fact one of these Muslims. Only way I can see anyone being so deluded as to think what you posted. Soldiers who enlist in their countries armed services, are not doing so in the name of God. So this idea that the US troops are 'christian warriors' is complete and utter nonsense.

Heres how you can tell the difference. If someone says they are doing something because of God, or Islam, or to further their own beliefs, then you can say, yes they are a Muslim or Christian warrior. If they do not, then they are fighting for other reasons. Its pretty much as simple as that. So when someone goes and murders a bunch of people while shouting God is Great, you can tell that yes, this moron is a warrior for his beliefs.

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runwithscissors: The only real difference between the Christian warrior and the Muslim warrior is that the Christian warrior does not wear religion on his sleeve. But the only real reason is to differentiate himself from the Muslim warrior. I am not fooled. Christianity is still a huge part of politics in western countries. Its a driving force, even if you prefer not to talk about it. It may not drive western nations as much as Islam drives M.E. nations, but our overseas war efforts would be considerably weaker without it. Its spread thinner, but that is made up for by the area its spread over and the body count.

Fascinating. Is this a theory you've always held or did it suddenly pop into your head when you read an article about terrorism directed specifically at Christians? I mean I'd hate to think you just threw this together at the last minute because you feel the need to find fault with the victims.

And may I ask your theory about why they decided to wait nearly a decade after the "Christian invasions" before they started to target Christians? Perhaps they thought they were being invaded by other Muslims and someone finally tipped them off?

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smithinjapan: As a total atheist myself, I find your moral equivalence absurd at the best of times but sickening in this instance. Copts have been the target of violence and intimidation for decades in Egypt, but the reason it hadn't reached the MSM is that they never retaliate (the MSM isn't interested in the fate of Christians.) The scale of violence has reached the point where even the MSM has had to take notice. Who are these 'radical Christians' in Egypt, and what are they doing? Answer: there are none, there are just long suffering Copts who want to be free to practise their religion, but are being intimidated by the Muslim state and actually murdered by Muslim extremists. Yet you still want to pin blame on them.

runwithscissors Your claim that the operations in Iraq and Afghanistan have anything to do with Christianity are totally absurd. Stupidity, ignorance, greed, self-interest yes, but Christianity, no. But then I find it odd that even when terrorists actually say that they kill themselves and others in the name of their religion, you think that their religion is not their motivation. If their motivation is simply 'fighting the invader' why don't they just so? The answer is that their religion is chock full of calls to fight, subjugate or deceive the infidel. Islam is more important than nationality.

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Runwithsissors gotta keep in mind, while Christianity may be the largest religion in the world it doesn't excuse the violence and persecution by Islam of the Hindi in India and bhuddists in Thailand, or anyone of different beliefs in Africa and other countries in the world. So while you keep trying to drive the train off the tracks from its obvious direction its heading, Islamic theocracy is trying to force its way into power over everyone regardless of religion, not just the christians.

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HonestDictator:

Actually, Christianity is not the largest religion in the world any more. It has been overtaken by islam last year. And this trend is continuingm thanks to the combination of Demographics (high muslim birth rates + polygamy) and politics (forced conversion, oppression of non-muslims, blasphemy laws, etc).

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I cringe when I hear people who probably support my point of view debating the way PeaceWarrior does.

Hahaha, cringe away Buddy, I don't mind. Actually, the way you debate makes me smile and shake my head quite often even thought I sometimes agree with your point of view but that's OK too! It's part of the fun.

The media, in this case an international news network, watched by millions of people worldwide, has an impact on people. Especially those without much of an education and a reason to be fanatical or extremist (as in a soldier killed everyone in my family for example). Add to that the religious element, and you have some really hot trouble soup stirring. Some of those people only have AlJazeera as somewhat untainted news source to rely on so it is bound to have some kind of impact.

SolidariTea: What does one story about a US chaplain in Afgahnastan hav to do with waves of violence against Christians

AlJazeera is an international news network watched by millions throughout the world. It is relevant because it is the only news some people trust.

But it's not like a nutcase can go and get influenced by the media and shoot someone or a bunch of someones, like politicians and judges. No, that never happens... right?

it is also very idiotic to think Faux is where the majority of Americans suspicious of Muslims get their suspicions

Yes, SolidariTea and you would have been right to hit me on the head with that argument if that's what I had really said... but I did not.

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of course in Brainless areas, & many Uneducated people think its just "christians" its also Muslims! SO the whole "Holy war" thing that THEY (Terrorists) created is an Huge LIE! they will kill anyone who disagrees with them. Almost every Day attacks from insurgents Kill innocent people. Hopefully ONEDAY this nonsense will STOP.

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Ray: This "nonsens" as you call it will never stop. Either the modern world deals with it, or we will all live under medieval Shariah eventually. Its our choice.

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