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Israeli commandos storm aid flotilla; 10 killed

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For more information on just how badly food and building materials are "needed", read here: http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001114.html

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The ship of fools.

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Labelle, that's a interesting piece of propaganda you have there. I wonder what would make someone create such a web site.

Anyway, if someone truly wants to learn more about the situation in Gaza with dependable sources of information, go to the UN News Centre: http://www.un.org/apps/news/

Searching for articles on Gaza will give you headlines like:

Gaza still awaiting reconstruction over a year after Israeli offensive, UN report finds

Israeli easing of Gaza blockade painfully insufficient, senior UN official says

Independent UN rights expert warns Israeli orders may breach Geneva Convention

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For more information on just how badly food and building materials are "needed", read here:

News is an opinion. It is an opinion only.

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sabiwabi at 09:24 AM JST - 31st May

As you and I both know most of the UN workers that write the reports that produce your dependable information are either Palestinians or Palestinian sympathisers. No, that is not to say that I believe everything Israel says, I don’t. Unlike you however I look for balance in the news rather than believe in what is obviously propaganda. And this little outing of boats is nothing more than propaganda in the making. It is a set up, a no win situation for Israel just as it was designed to be. Are you now going to pretend here on this site that you do not understand that? Whatever those boats are carrying is of no consequence, it is the act of going up against the Israeli navy that this is all about, a stage managed little drama. Now you tell us all here that I am wrong, tell us that these boats really are only trying to deliver what is needed. Please don’t disappoint us and make a total fool of yourself. Over the last few months your arguments have got so good I almost thought your handlers had replaced you with somebody else.

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Where are the NK "stealth" subs when you need them.

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And this little outing of boats is nothing more than propaganda in the making. It is a set up, a no win situation for Israel just as it was designed to be.

Obviously, any coverage of Israel's crimes against humanity is good. The UN and human rights groups are constantly reporting about Israeli crimes, but few people get to hear/read them.

Israel rejects claims of a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, saying it allows more than enough food and medicine into the territory.

This is another biased article from AP, what more can we expect. A BBC article about this flotilla at least included the following "But the United Nations, which calls the blockade a "Medieval siege", says this [what Israel allows in] is only a fraction of what is needed and less than a quarter of what was coming into Gaza before the blockade was enforced."

If Israel blocks this flotilla, they will only further confirm that Gaza is a concentration (and extermination) camp controlled by IDF guards.

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If Israel blocks this flotilla, they will only further confirm that Gaza is a concentration (and extermination) camp controlled by IDF guards.

Hmmmm. And if Israeli doesn't block this "humanitarian" flotilla, I wonder how many additional rockets, mortar rounds, grenades and AK-47s will be added to Hamas' arsenal.

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Hmmmm. And if Israeli doesn't block this "humanitarian" flotilla, I wonder how many additional rockets, mortar rounds, grenades and AK-47s will be added to Hamas' arsenal.

I sometimes wonder what would motivate someone to write something like this, when they know full well that this flotilla is trying to provide desperately needed humanitarian aid to the Gazans, who are prisoners on their own land.

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Apparently: "Terrorist Israeli warships fire live ammunition to peaceful unarmed humanitarian flotilla killing 3 and critically injuring dozen others"

You can keep up with the progress of the flotilla here: http://twitter.com/Hisham_G

And watch live images here: http://www.livestream.com/insaniyardim

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I sometimes wonder what would motivate someone to write something like this, when they know full well that this flotilla is trying to provide desperately needed humanitarian aid to the Gazans,

Sure, happy to oblige. Thanks for the invitation to respond.

Desperate housewives count days, not rockets 05/30/2010 http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=176840

And:

2 Gaza gunmen infiltrate Israel, die in firefight 5/21/2010 http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2010-05-21-gaza-gunmen-israel_N.htm?csp=outbrain&csp=obnetwork

And: Rocket fired by Palestinians kills Thai farm worker 3/18/2010 http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2010-03-18-israel-palestinians_N.htm?csp=obinsite

Want more?

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So not only do the Palestinians set themselves up for failure, those who support them in other countries do as well. It amazes me sometimes. It's like creating new ways to not accomplish your goals is some kind of requirement for the Palestinian cause.

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Sabiwabi, your reports of mass civilian casualties in the flotilla appear to be premature -- even the Arab media like al-Jazeera hasn't reported this.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/05/2010530233136303508.html

I'll be more convinced if you can produce something that isn't packaged as incitement or propaganda.

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So did AP

Israeli ships attack aid flotilla, 2 dead

The al-Jazeera broadcast ended with a voice shouting in Hebrew, "Everybody shut up!"

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Still no mention on any western MSM about the murderous Israeli attack against an unarmed ship in international waters. The silence is telling!

Oh, CBS finally reports it.

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The bottom line, Palestinians just got to understand losing. You know, the ones that can afford to, do get out and are now living all over the world. The isrealies should just buy them out. Buy each family a nice property with a modest house in a civilized country like Canada and within 20 years there would be nobody left. Tghe ones too stubborn to leave (the elderly; will die of old age in 20 years anyway). Done. Solved. No need for modern concentration camps. No need for homemade shitty rockets. No need for suicide bombers. NO need for those boats!!

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Like I said.....set up to fail. Utterly.

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Packed with journalists, it seems that Israel has opened fire on these boats. Talk about a PR disaster.

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I agree Timor, but I guess that was the whole point of the excersise from the pro-palestinan side. Either way is a win-win for anti-Israeli PR.

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Apartheid was a word that most people took to heart as something terrible and in need of change. Yet the apartheid practiced by Israel against the Palestinians is tolerated by a world who has lumped all Palestians in with the individuals who have turned to terror over the years.

This was an opportunity for Israel to show compassion. Instead Israel has once again proven that it is the same kind of wicked ruler that we once saw in South Africa before the fall.

I am not anti-semitic, before anyone tries that argument. I have many Jewish friends who share my point of view on Israel and Zionism. The bottom line is that both communities must and should have rights to live in the region. But this division and apartheid system cannot endure. A one state solution is the only option that will ever assure peace and security in Israel. The two state idea will only leave the current situation in place.

We must stop funding Israel now and pressure them to change. Equally we must engage Hamas and work to bring them forward to becoming a party that declines violence in favor of a peaceful future.

Until then, brave actions like this flotilla must continue to draw attention to the apartheid system in Israel and Gaza.

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tokind2:

" apartheid was a word that most people too "

Nice Arabic proganda, but not related to reality. The 20% Arab population of Israel has full voting rights, is represented in parliament and even in the government. I dare you show one single muslim country where you can say the same about the Jews.

And you won´t even want to think about the the Gaza strip, where there is 1 (ONE) single Jew remaining, and he is not there on own will.

About the "brave action" by your "flottilla", this was another Pallywood stunt, which alas the Western media are falling for.

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Israel has the right to protect its citizens and its terrority from thugs, whether they are Palestinian Hamas thug/terrorists or their international supporters, like the people in this flotilla. I support the actions of Israel 100% and admire them constantly for their gutsiness in the face of Arab/Islam brainwashing of most of the Western media.

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Let me guess: Israel is going to demand that only an independent, Israeli-military investigation is going to be necessary.

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realist: "Israel has the right to protect its citizens and its terrority from thugs, whether they are Palestinian Hamas thug/terrorists or their international supporters, like the people in this flotilla."

Were they proven to be such thugs, or was this just proof of how preemptive strikes don't work, and only kill people out to give aid. Where's your proof, bud?

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yphfyN0dqi8&feature=player_embedded#!

http://www.inn.co.il/News/News.aspx/204982

Israel warned the Hamas supporting sail that that they are trans-passing they knew what they are doing they even declare themselves as Shaheeds

Israel warn them weeks before they set sail they attacked the soldiers who came to arrest them they got what they wanted.

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smithjapan:

A little reality check.

1) Under international law, Israel has authority (like it or not) over the borders of Gaza.

2) It is therefore authorised under international law to prevent unauthorised vessels from making port.

3) Boarding ships on the high seas is governed by UN Treaty and is subject to international rules and protocols. It will be interesting to hear whether those protocols were followed.

4) Murder as a criminal offence does not apply here for very many reasons, not least of which is the matter of premeditation.

I should be interested to hear what you, "smithjapan", would do if you were attacked by a mob with knives and steel bars and were armed.

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they are out of control to do this. will make them more enemies again. some type of people never learn.

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To take a cynical side-- the flotilla would not have an impact if not for the reported casualties. Shame, but next week it'll be another, dire news :(

Were they proven to be such thugs, or was this just proof of how preemptive strikes don't work, and only kill people out to give aid. Where's your proof, bud?

It's rather excessive for the Israelis to send elite commandos equivalent to Australian SAS. Given the people on board (discounting for a second allegations that Hamas people were there as well) and international media coverage of the event... wth were they thinking???

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Play with fire and get burnt. They cannot say they were not warned. The next step by the militant aid workers will be to get their governments to call in Israeli ambassadors to lodge diplomatic protests. The governments have not had the guts to either condemn or support the actions of these convoys yet will back these criminal actions. It is all so familiar. Congratulations to the IDF for the professional approach taken in confronting this attack. The aid workers have the blood of those killed on their hands.

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directed at them by the "peaceful" passengers on the boats, including the use of firearms, gas and knives. Indeed, reports indicate that some of the passengers attempt to lynch Israeli soldiers.

Several Israeli soldiers had to be hospitalized at Tel-Hashomer and Rambam hospitals with major body wounds that they suffered.

In the face of this, of course, the soldiers on the boats needed to respond in kind in the process of protecting themselves as part of the obviously legal takeover of the ships that broke international law and refused to heed Israel Defense Forces' (IDF) warnings.

Let us hope this will be a signal that provocation doesn't pay, and that a Hebrew soldier will not stand still while being attacked by those aggressively hoping to bring about conflict to the region

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The activists were headed to Gaza on a mission meant to draw attention to a 3-year-old Israeli blockade of the coastal territory. Israel imposed the blockade after Hamas militants took power there.

What a load of bull! The blockade has been on for decades! Its just increased in severity in the last three years!

You got to love Israel's answer to making people not want to kill you: Lock them up and deny them building materials and food. Yeah! That ought to work!

Hard to believe anyone could be so disgusting as to support Israel in using Nazi tactics against Palestinians. Even many Jews are speaking out against this.

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The TV pictures are very clear when you see them in slow motion. While various "activists" are beating IDF soldiers with large metal bars, you clearly see one of the "peace activists" raise his hand with a large knife and repeatedly stab an IDF soldier. Peaceful resistance? No. Peace activists? Of course not. Turkish supported agitators? Yes, but why is Turkey doing this? Why is Turkey trying to suck up to Hamas and Iran? And how long will the Turkish armed forces sit by while the Islamic extremism in Turkey worsens? That is the key question that comes out of this whole episode.

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Way to go Israel! Some people just don't understand the term "blockade". I think you may have reasserted the definition, and let them know at the same time that you mean business. Any casualties was the result of sending this flotilla into a restricted zone. Israel is certainly not to blame.

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WilliB, I suspect you've stayed too long analyzing Peter Bethune's case that you managed to belie yourself that the two are of the same straightforward proportions.

We do have similar protests in Australia-- with flotillas boarded by high-profile MPs BUT regardless of the nature of these protests let me say the gov. (being sensible) prefers to send border patrols and sea police rather than elite commandos.

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Here's the latest from a senior Israeli official on the the attack:

Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon says activists had weapons onboard the ships.

Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon said on Monday that the organizers of the Gaza aid flotilla have connections to international terrorist organizations such as Hamas and Al-Qaida, and called the aid convoy a violent and provocative attempt to break the blockade on Gaza.

Ayalon, speaking at a press conference at the Foreign Ministry, said that Israel found weapons onboard the Gaza flotilla, which were used against IDF troops.

The deputy foreign minister said that the Gaza flotilla did not heed Israel's calls to halt its movement toward Gaza on Monday morning, and stressed that no sovereign country would have allowed such a provocation to take place.

"We couldn't allow the opening of a corridor of smuggling arms and terrorists," said Ayalon.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-gaza-flotilla-organizers-have-connections-to-international-terrorist-groups-1.293187

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You got to love these Israel supporters. Any other Sunday they would say there is no way a government could properly control an economy properly and they would declare communism an impossibility and a failure. But here they demand that Israel is shipping enough of enough of what Gazans need to live, they know exactly what to do.

Its not only hypocrisy, its complete idiocy. Hamas is only gaining support for Israel treating Gaza like a giant concentration camp/ Soviet satellite. Wake up! Why can't Gazans have cement? For Pete's sake!

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jraustralia:

" To take a cynical side-- the flotilla would not have an impact if not for the reported casualties. "

Oh yes it would. Break down Israeli control of the borders and allow unlimited flow of arms and terrorists into the Hamas enclave. In the event, the jihadists win either way.

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I hope the world ends soon. Humanity does not deserve to live on this planet anymore.

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MistWizard:

" its complete idiocy. Hamas is only gaining support for Israel treating Gaza like a giant concentration camp/ Soviet satellite "

Sorry, the idiocy is on your side. A concentration camp full of well-fed, well-armed people and an enormous population growth, who receive aid to the tune of hundreds of millions USD per year, with an arms-strutting militia and a blossoming rocket building industry that regularly lobs rockets into the neighbouring country and launches raids to kill and abduct people there?

Some "concentration camp". You really might want to examine you choice of words.

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"We are civilians"

Very badly-behaved civilians.

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Some "concentration camp". You really might want to examine you choice of words.

Concentration camp seems quite an appropriate choice of words. Israeli barbarity knows no boundaries.

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A concentration camp full of well-fed, well-armed people and an enormous population growth,

Well armed? How many jet fighters do they have? Well fed? Its not what I heard, but even if true it hardly represents an acceptable standard of living. I don't see you or anyone else trying to emigrate to Gaza to enjoy being "well-fed".

And FYI, enormous population growth is a sign of substandard living ie. poverty. Thanks for pointing that out.

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Danny Ayalon did not say "flotilla have connections to international terrorist organizations."

He said they were "investigated." They were investigated by Turkish officials and given body scans before they left.

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“It is a set up, a no win situation for Israel just as it was designed to be.”

Well Sabi and friends are you all happy now, did you all get just what you wanted out of this? This is just what this little boating trip was designed to do. What really turns my stomach about this is the so called good people on these boats that really have to be the most stupid people on the planet. They allowed themselves to be used, maybe even killed. And if reports are to be believed some even had children with. In my book those children should now be taken into care because their parents have knowingly exposed them to incredible danger.

No surprise here was there Sabi? Israel was put in a position whereby whatever they did you and your friends got a show of some kind. The Arab propaganda machine has been working well and done a great deal of damage to relations between Israel and the rest of the world now they have gone one step further. You can all be very happy and proud today.

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The Israelis are getting really unconvincing in their PR. In first reports the Jerusalem Post claimed the commandos boarding the ship were attacked by people throwing rocks - sure, plenty of rocks lying around on the deck of a ship. After that they added clubs and knives. Then guns. I am sure they will 'find' missiles too in no time. Even if it were true that the Israelis were attacked it would be perfectly legal to defend the ship against piracy and terrorism in international waters.

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Yes, Israel has been robber and terrorist. They had robbed of land of Palestinian and their army has been killing people in Gaza. I think so as an average Japanese.

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Check for contraband, munitions, sure. Attack a supply ship with elite commandos? Stupid. Over the top and extremely bad PR. Israel, sort your head out. You've just murdered MORE people. Stop.

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I wonder what would have happened to any ship who would try to cross into Turkey/Saudi Arabia or any other Muslim oriented nation while breaking the international law...

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http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART2/114/294.html?hp=1&loc=2&tmp=8519

check them "peace activists!" stubbing a soldier...now this is what i call true pacifistic intention ,oh and the ship was carrying weapons which were aimed for peace activities...

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@Orro: What international law was being broken, exactly? Israel is fast losing friends left, right and centre both geographically and politically. An appalling over use of force.

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They were in INTERNATIONAL WATERS.

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@Yongyang

A use of force was initiated by the "peace activists" the Israeli army had to defend itself .

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@Yongyang

ENTERING Sovereignty territory water WITHOUT permission is illegal according to international law is a felony .

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@Orro: Who was in territorial waters? The ships were boarded by the Israeli Commandos in International Waters, 40 miles out from the coast.

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@Orro. No. No and... No again. Even the Us is saying, 'No'. As is a whole line of countries, statesmen, organizations and the common humanity of us all. Even true that the Israelis were attacked it would be perfectly legal to defend the ship against piracy and terrorism in international waters. Israel just gave itself a very nasty flesh wound in the foot. Completely disproportionate use of force. Stupid.

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Yes, and then them "peaceful activists" attacked the soldiers who firstly demanded them to turn back and return on their tracks BEFORE they enter the Israeli territorial water, and they refused so soldiers went on board to arrest them and were attacked quite brutally (knives and bats) forcing the Israelis to use force against them (but dont worry most of the "Peace activists" were going there wanting this to happen)

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grafton: You seem to be very, very quickly jumping to the conclusion that Israel was right, and not wrong, whereas their 'spray with bullets and check later' policy doesn't seem to be winning to many people over otherwise. Of course, if you take them up on it you are automatically an 'anti-semite', which is why this is so interesting to see play out..... they even have to call their own gunners anti-semites now, and excuse everything logical in hitting these people with lethal force.

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according to israeli comandos report from the hospitals, they silde from the helicopter down to the marmara ship carring paintball guns(used against demonstrations)but every soldeir that landed was snateched by 4-5 turks,and was beaten and stabbed.the israelis were trying to talk to them but it didnt work,an after a soldeir was throwen from a 10 meter high deck down and was heavely injured in his head,they ask their comandor permision to use their guns.as soon as they did,they nutrelize the attackers by firing at their legs.

in short,a planned ambush for israel.

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I wonder what would have happened to any ship who would try to cross into Turkey/Saudi Arabia or any other Muslim oriented nation while breaking the international law...

Your question still distorts what had happened. But to answer you, they would have sent in maritime enforcement agencies or coast guards (not elite commandos) as was the case in Malaysia (Read this http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2010/5/26/nation/6341086&sec=nation) and Indonesia (http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/business/indonesia-sinks-foreign-fishers-prospects/332783)

Worst case scenario is to have foreign vessels destroyed.

But here's a question, given that this is the ninth time the organizers has sent flotillas to Gaza-- with five 'successful' missions during the blockade--why, now, did the Israelis mobilized its gunships and elite commandos against the group, and treated and branded them as terrorists?

A more sensible, tactful response would have just landed these people in jail-- not make martyrs out of their cheap political stunts. But alas, Israel blew it again...

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20100529/world-news/israeli-gunships-await-gaza-flotilla

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@jruaustralia

The first intention of the Israeli soldiers was to arrest the "peace activists" but since they were lynched the minute the landed on the deck of the ship they had to protect them selves in any mean possible. i presume you would now say that those stubbing and attacks the "peace activists" were showing to the soldiers were "peaceful" stubbing and hitting.. wouldn't you?

regarding the 5 missions which were successful ? could you supply with some links to back you up?

and regarding your somewhat "plain" example regarding Indonesia and Malaysia "“Neither ship was able to produce valid ship-to-ship activity permits. We suspect that some 565,000 litres of marine gas diesel were illegally transferred,” he said, adding that the captains of both vessels had been arrested."

doesn't seems like the people who were on board of those ship showed any aggression toward the police when they came on board to arrest them.

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The blockade of Gaza constitutes the collective punishment of 1.5 million people and is a crime against humanity. The boarding of a vessel on the high seas is piracy. Israel has done itself a massive disservice and is only alienating itself further...

Isolate the apartheid state !

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Oh yes it would. Break down Israeli control of the borders and allow unlimited flow of arms and terrorists into the Hamas enclave. In the event, the jihadists win either way.

WilliB, no one here said anything about letting 'jihadists' in or for Israel to let go of its border control.

To tell you the truth this flotilla is a cheap political stunt-- that's a view I share with the Israelis-- and I doubt it'll have any impact till the clowns in Israel gave in to the same paranoid, zealous behaviors of the past.

Here's what Israeli officials said so far of the practicalities of the Gaza flotillas:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20100527/twl-israel-prepares-to-intercept-aid-boa-3cd7efd.html "If they were really interested in the well-being of the people of Gaza, they would have accepted the offer of Egypt or Israel to transfer humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza, along with the other 15,000 tonnes sent every week. Instead they have chosen a cheap political stunt."

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Yee haw let's pack up some boats and some supplies and some guns and head straight for an Israel blockade and see what happens!

People that dumb deserve to die. Period. They're wasting resources that this planet badly needs.

Good riddance.

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The Israelis would like nothing more than another interfada. These "wars" as they call them, which supposedly justify their claiming territory from the people who lose them, are between a funded state army with access to the most sophisticated weapons, and the Palestinians who have been incarcerated for over 40 years without any state, economy, funding to build an army to fight in any war the Israelis care to promote. Peaceful activism is what the Israels detest the most, because they, quite frankly, don't want peace. Israel wants the whole West Bank, and East Jersualem, which is what they don't have now, and the Palestinians are what stand in the way of them having it. If Israel can provoke another "war", then Israel can justify more slaughter, incarceration, and claim more territory.

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@jruaustralia

My question doesnt distort what happened on the contrary it shows the differences between Israel which risked its soldiers life in the operation and later brought the rest of the "peace activists" to hospitals and shelter rather then simply sink the boat like so many other countries (especially those of Muslim orientation) would have done.

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Orro and Supporters of Israel - you need to fire your government for being monumentally idiotic.

Whatever the tribal concerns you have... this was so inept! I'm beginning to lose any grudging respect I had of the Israeli government usual strategic nous.

What did you think was going to happen? You were faced by a bunch of activists on a six boats, all you had to do was park a couple of warships next door or tie up their props.

You could have showed the world that you were determined and resourceful. You could have demonstrated the famous Israeli ability to think round a problem. Then you could have crowed about it. That would have made your critics look like idiots and proved your point.

Come on, it's not as if you don't have the robo-cyber-crazy-tech. You have one of the most innovative military industrial complexes in the world and some very smart people working for you.

But you chose to raid the ships. With incompetence and fatally. While being filmed. Under the eyes of the world.

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...rather then simply sink the boat like so many other countries (especially those of Muslim orientation) would have done.

mmmm. I think you just read the headline out of one of my links. The newspaper obviously forgot to be explicit that they do burn and sink vessels without people on board. :|

You still haven't showed us anything, sorry. :(

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The blockade of Gaza constitutes the collective punishment of 1.5 million people and is a crime against humanity. The boarding of a vessel on the high seas is piracy. Israel has done itself a massive disservice and is only alienating itself further...

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@yongyang

NO! the blockage of Gaza (which keeps firing rockets at civilian population for soon to be 12 years~~!! ) is not a punishment for anyone - falsetinians wants to leave gaza? GO A HEAD USE EGYPT BORDER ,what are you trying to say here exactly??? there are 2 BORDERS TO GAZA theres the Israeli one who should be closed hermetically - thanks to the Hamas regime who is too busy firing rockets and planning suicide attacks on Israeli civilian population and theres the border with EGYPT - now Egypt doesn't want to allow freaking Ubber muslim fanatics into its border and that is not a blockage but in the case of Israel (pure self defense) its a blockage - AGAINST HUMANITY - man you are so hyper hypocritical,disgusting.

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Orro, there are two sides to each border pal. The crossing into Egypt is controlled on the inside by Israel, not Hamas or anyone else. These people have to tunnel out just to get refrigerators dude. Yeah, I know Egypt does not want them either, but you cannot do to a people what Israel has done to Gazans and expect to get upper class twits. You deny a people building materials and refrigerators and they will act like hoodlums. Its a given. In no way is Israel justified in mistreated they hoodlums they created all by themselves.

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Isolate the apartheid state !

Not going to happen. Not till the Americans wake up-- this won't happen anytime soon.

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@War: If you read, no I am not. If you jump, yes I am in your view.

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Orro, busy firing rockets and planning suicide attacks? Really? Lop-sided if anything. The longer Israel's collective action continues, the more people throughout the world grow to dislike Israel. From friends in Montreal, to even here, in Japan! Growing growing growing!

systematic + horded + dehumanized + propagated + confined... hmmmm...

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Cynthia McKinney, an African-American and Green Party activist in the US

sounds like she didnt managed well - check the oil spil - no international community regarding that matter...i wonder why... hahah...=)

you havent answered my question and all you actually do is twisting the subject on and on - IF THERE IS A BLOCKAGE ON GAZA why isnt Egypt is being held responsible for it just as Israel is?

all your nicely putted words can not prove justice is with you ,you are a hypocritical tell me -why did the "peace activists" were lynching the soldiers who came to arrest them instead of peacefully surrounding? why didn't the "peace activists" accepted the Israeli offer to pass the "humanitarian aid" through Israel and to the Gaza border - after checking theres no weapons and other "good" included ??

answer kindly.

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@Zato1

Simply because Hamas - the ruler of Gaza is a terrorist group those "simple good" tends to be explosives in most cases,besides there are good entering Gaza on a monthly base why shouldnt those good enter along with them? the question should be why did the "peace activists" rejected the offer and insisted on choosing the illegal way?

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My question to Orro is, why in the world should anyone have to pass simple goods through a third party state anyways?

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But let's go back to the article, if you honestly believe that there are 'Uber Muslim fanatics' on board these flotillas... why now after ninth attempts, and five successful attempts, did the Israeli officials decided to up the ante against the Free Gaza Movement (that's the name of the group just in case you don't know)?

Why then did the Israeli officials, after calling the group, cheap and opportunists, did they also negotiated weeks before the confrontation to give the group safe passage to Gaza... and then they call them terrorists??

Could it be that the Israelis are just afraid for the international communities to start asking questions on the humanitarian disasters in Gaza... again.

By the look of it-- whether you and your ilks-- acknowledge it or not, this got nothing to do with terrorism or intention to arm terrorist groups. What you're failing to say, blatantly and directly, is for people to shut up and look the other way.

But at least you haven't started calling folks here anti-semite. I'll give yah that :|

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I cannot believe the pro-Israel side would even bring up international law when Israel just committed an act of piracy in international waters! I have no love for either side, but this pro-Israel bias is really ignorant and disgusting. Some of you people just were not raised right.

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Why is it illegal?

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I think.... Quest is on your side.... orro.. I think hes referring to Hamas and "when they do they must pay" referring to the collective action Israel is making-do on the palestinians.

I know, it gets confusing sometimes.

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Stupid move bringing a knife to a gun fight. Peaceful people don't fire rockets upon civilians, when they do the must pay.

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@MistWizard

Id suggest you to read back some newspapers ....Israel left Gaza more then 3 years ago there is not even one Israeli soldier in Gaza theres no Border control of the EGYPTIAN side managed by Israel (this is by far the most ridiculous claim i heard lately...) the gazan faith is in their own hands they wanted a Muslim regime with sharia laws thats what they got. you can not blame Israel for completely sealing its border with Gaza (loads of rockets and terror attacks are the only thing Israel is getting from there) what other excuses have you got?

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Sorry, but I don't feel sorry for these people who got killed. They were stupid enough to try blockade running. They announced their intentions, dared Israel to take action, and then assaulted the soldiers when they boarded the ships... Yeah, no one would have seen this coming. They got what they wanted. An international incident, with the Pal apologists in Europe outing themselves in their outrage.

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@ jruaustralia

Oh yes they did – Israel offered the “free gaza” organization a few weeks AGO to cancel their sail to gaza ,pass the “|goods” to Israel and transfer it to gaza safely after checking for explosives (now you may admit your reading comprehension – it’s about the 5th time I write this) there was even a sail of Israeli protested who claim this sail to be firstly anti Israeli as well as taking advantage of the popular “gaza blockage” issue…plain political UGLY maneuver of them turks.

Oh and here – some links:

http://muslims.net/news/newsfull.php?newid=375320

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2010/05/2010517155117976235.html

http://un-truth.com/israel/free-gaza-expedition-warned-not-to-try-sea-voyage-to-gaza

the Israeli sail against the flotilla:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynlX6Qh2hjY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjxY0ZJfxPs&feature=related

theres no blockage on gaza theres the Egyptian border they can always use if they like. Tell me – why should Israel allow suicide bombers into its borders? Why should Israel allow any Falsetinian into its borders ? Ever read the Hamas ?

There there

http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

You think everyone should be as suicidal as yourself?

And one more thing regarding your revolutionary solution for dealing with the fanatic muslim “peace activists” on the ship with coast guards -tell me now how would they handle the “peace” stubbing the Israeli soldiers were facing? I take it they wouldn’t use any force...therefor most of them would surely die…wouldn’t they?

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more then that Jruaustralia - what would the coastal guard do facing such violence combined with weapons against then?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU12KW-XyZE&feature=player_embedded

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zato1: My question to Orro is, why in the world should anyone have to pass simple goods through a third party state anyways?

You mean why can't Hamas and the militants just get arms freely? Go ahead and sanitize your statement with a nameless "anyone" and "3rd party states." I suppose if you have to actually acknowledge what the Palestinian militants are then your case kind falls apart.

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Propagandist crap. Muslim peace activists?!

Its stabbing by the way. Not stubbing. Stub means the usually short end remaining after something bigger has been used up. Or an arrested development. And its therefore not therefor.

Proportionality has always been a quintessential hallmark of Israeli response to fireworks. Come on Orro, its not "Falsetinians" by the way its Palestinian. Please work on your spelling. I am Japanese and I can spell better than you!

anyways, now I sleep.

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YongYang: the Palestinians who have been incarcerated for over 40 years without any state, economy, funding to build an army to fight in any war the Israelis care to promote

Yet every day they wake up and teach their children that violence is the answer.... You'd think after 4 decades they'd give something else a try, but then again with people like you cheering them on I suppose they feel they're on the right track.

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more questions aroused...

http://www.hosem.org.il/Sl/Human-Rights-activists-Attack-like-savages

some "peace activists" ...

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Acknowledge what the palestinians are? "I suppose if you have to actually acknowledge what the Palestinian militants are then your case falls apart.(?)" What are you trying to say. I don't understand what you mean.

Sure. I guess Palestinian militants are Palestinian militants. They are exactly as you suggest, as do I - Palestinian Militants! Sure, I acknowledge the existence of Palestinian Militants. Don't you? I don't know what you mean to say.

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Israel left Gaza more then 3 years ago there is not even one Israeli soldier in Gaza theres no Border control of the EGYPTIAN side managed by Israel (this is by far the most ridiculous claim i heard lately...)

The Palestinian independence is still under Israeli conditions. End of story... you're not pulling anyone's leg by telling us 'We're not there anymore'. Period

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Yet another proof point of the total disregard the state of Israel has for human life other than their own. When the apartheid policies in Gaza are exposed they attack and kill unarmed pacifists. This is clearly once again state terrorism. Something we see over and over again from the rogue state of Israel. And they have nukes!!

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Heh, knowing full well these threads alwayts turn messy I'm almost scared to butt-in.

Not supporting either of the idiot parties in this age old conflict, I'm still left wondering how normally rational posters such as Superlib can say with suich certainty that this is really a covert arms delivery circumventing the blockade...

As far as I have read, their was 10,000 tonnes of aid on board. Is it a given that's what they're up to?

Frankly, I'm sure the Israeli's will be swift to expose it even if only to cover today's body-count. Either way, the radicals have won gain.

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As a foot-note, I have to say I believe neither side as to how the violence started. Far too convinient for both sides.

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I can’t see what all the fuss is about anymore, this game was started some weeks back and ended when the shooting started. The Palestinian puppets got shot and that was the best the Palestinian could have hoped for. Whatever happened Israel lost out, there was no way to get out of the mess that had been designed to be a mess for them. And yes Mr.Smith, I do think that Israel is in the right this time. They didn’t go out looking for these people, these people came looking to start trouble and did so, as planed. Now the gutless so called world leaders that have shown Islam that they are frighten of anything that might involve a Muslim backlash will say how dreadful the Israelis have been, not because they believe this anymore than most here do, but because once says this they must all follow for fear of being the one that says the truth and has to face the peaceful Muslim backlash, remember 9 11, Madrid and London, very peaceful way of saying we don’t agree with you. This is over, Israel lost, now the gullible mugs can rave on all they want about the poor Palestinians and the nasty Israelis. There are none so blind as those that refuse to see. And only a fool fails to see this set for what it is.

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Seems like a special UN meeting is going to go ahead regarding the matter. So far the only people supporting the Israeli terrorist attacks are the Israeli government , no surprise there then, especialy as they have kidnapped, asassinated and murdered more in the alst 40 years than N Korea.

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graftin, have you seen the nationalities of these attacked by the Israelis in intrnational waters? Hardly puppts, hardly well armed. Stick the news on mate and youll see excatly what i mean. Even William Hague is condemning this and he is one of the most pro Israelis in the British cabinet.

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Hardly puppts, hardly well armed.

Ah, Steve, so you didn't bother to watch the video showing your 'peace' loving friends beating the Israelis as they landed on the ship, stabbing them, and later shooting them? Oh no, it doesn't matter that no one would have been killed had they truly been peaceful as you claim, no all that matters is that there were Israeli's there, and that people died.

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Molenir, If Israelis went and blew them out of the water from 10 miles away, you call it self defence. Israel has proved it is a rogue terrorist state that ignores the rules of the sea and UN Resolutions. The world needs to consider regime change as this is getting out of hand.

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yeah sail a ship in to another countries territory, refuse to obey the authorities and then shoot at them when they board. Thats just not too smart.

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Molenir, If Israelis went and blew them out of the water from 10 miles away, you call it self defence.

Actually, it depends on how they did it. For example, if they ordered the ship to stop, came alongside, attempted to impede their progress and were ignored, or worse, if the ship attempted to ram... Then yes, I would feel Israel justified in shooting the boat. On the other hand, I suspect that it wouldn't matter what they did, or were smuggling, to you, Pal=good and Israel=Bad. People need to wake up and stop blaming Israel for not making peace with a group that has no interest in peace.

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Molenir, The boats were not full of Palestinians or Hamas supporters. It was ships full of aid that posed no threat to Israel. If teher are suspocious activities at sea the coast guard should be called. The flotilla was not covertly trying to enter water or threatening anyone, thus the Israeli attack was unprovoked an opinion the UK government agrees with. Are they Jew haters too in your book?

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Actually, it depends on how they did it. For example, if they ordered the ship to stop, came alongside, attempted to impede their progress and were ignored, or worse, if the ship attempted to ram... Then yes, I would feel Israel justified in shooting the boat.

A more sensible, tactful response would have just landed these people in jail-- not make martyrs out of their cheap political stunts.

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Israel told the world no ships go to Gaza and they did not listen.

The fact is that if there were not weapons on this ship then it is not the norm. Most ships going to Gaza are full of weapons or have them under the food.

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Israeli PM is now apologising and expressing regret about those murdered.

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Molenir, The boats were not full of Palestinians or Hamas supporters. It was ships full of aid that posed no threat to Israel.

Come on steve, I'm not interested in the manure you're peddling, stop spreading the propaganda, I'm only interested in the truth. The ships absolutely were full of these terrorist supporters. But even if that were true, if the rest of what you said was correct, then they wouldn't have minded a brief inspection before the materials was sent on to Gaza. Oh wait, yes they would have. In fact they deliberately refused that in order to get this confrontation with Israel. They could have easily prevented this. They chose to ignore Israels warnings, and paid the price.

This is a lot like Hamas using a school to launch rockets at Israel. Israel returns fire, children are killed, but its definitely not Hamas fault for hiding behind the skirts of their women and children. No, its Israels fault for daring to defend itself.

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Molenir; 1; Not one nation is taking Israels side on these murders, in fact the Israeli governement is now expressing "regret" and looking at teh facts due to condemnation from allies. 2/ There was no attempt of an inspection. The commandos were shown on BBC TV doing a Swat style assault and began arracking the crew who the begain defending themselves. 3/ Some Israelis were injured, non Israelis were murdered unlawfully in international waters. However you paint it, Israel were wrong, look bad and those who support this cowardly attack are nuts.

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Molenir; 1; Not one nation is taking Israels side on these murders

Sorry, but having no nation coming out and condemning this obvious act of provocation, does not justify them. And again, try watching the video of that 'peaceful' guy attacking the commando with the knife. Sure, totally wrong. You're going to have to try something else to get your propaganda to fly. As I said, any reasonable person can simply look at this and see the facts. Anyone who is not completely biased against Israel that is. Your default hatred of Israel is more then showing through by your statements.

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So early has this situation turned up that I do not feel we can give estimates of exactly what happened to who was in the wrong & so much more.

here is time to try & learn more before we make comments.

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try watching the video of that 'peaceful' guy attacking the commando with the knife

If armed guys in masks repelled down from a helicopter onto my boat, in international waters, I would do whatever it takes to defend myself. Especially if I hadn't broken any international water way laws.

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William Hague was terribly cross, and he is a right wing Conservative in England. I saw this in the telly, it was vile. The victims tried to defend themselves, but the Israeli commandos had guns and other beastly high tech weaponary and slaughtered them with glee. I hope sanctions will now start against Israel, unless they put those on trial including the horrid ones who gave the orders.

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Molenir, we are talking about 69 nautical miles from land. Illegal terrorist attack, condemned by world, case closed.

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This is being viewed as statr sponsored terrorism by many governments. This was a terrorist attack with guns against a non threatening flotilla. The ships were inspected before leaving and had nothing usuable to make rockets or bombs.

Then they should have had no problem being inspected prior to them being allowed into Gaza. Or should the US just take the word of whichever group inspected the container ship out of Yemen... Keep trying steve, you're just exposing your own bias against Israel here. Nothing you've said passes the smell test.

If Isreal had waited for the boat to cross into Isreali waters, then no problem, but dropping commando's on boat in international water, is attacking them without due cause.

Ah, so everything would have been fine had they just waited another hour. Then they could have gone in and killed everyone for sponsoring terrorism right? Yeah, sorry that doesn't fly either. We all know the reaction would have been exactly the same. This group let everyone know before hand where they were headed, what their agenda was. None of this came as any surprise. Unless of course you honestly believed that Israel would simply allow this challenge to its sovereignty to go unchecked.

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A ship unlawfully invades the territorial waters of another country

Invade the territorial waters, implies that they crossed of the border of international water border line into Isreal waters, which isn't the case. If Isreal had waited for the boat to cross into Isreali waters, then no problem, but dropping commando's on boat in international water, is attacking them without due cause.

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Molenir

You are wasting you time, those that want to accuse Israel will do so whatever they see on the TV news or read in the newspaper. Their reasoning has nothing to do with truth it is simple, Israel is the bad country and therefore what ever they do and why ever they do it must by definition also be bad. Palestinians of course can do no wrong, because as the Palestinians have told everybody they are the victims and it is only right that victims must be defended.

I think we know BS when we see, unless it happens to be Palestinian BS in which case the gullible swallow it whole. If it wasn’t so sad and so serious I would find it funny. Many of the people on these ships are genuinely honest people that believe they are doing something worthwhile for people they believe are in great need and I would go on to say that many in Gaza very likely are in great need. They are in need in much the same way that the people of North Korea are in great need. Only in the case of NK nobody is so stupid as to point the finger of blame at South Korea or the US (except of course NK). The people of Gaza are simply one of the weapons used by Hamas and the gullible do gooders on those ships are another weapon. Delusional champions riding to the rescue of the poor Palestinians who are falling about laughing at them behind their backs for being so incredibly stupid. The people of Gaza are in a bad way because of Hamas, not Israel, but that line doesn’t suit the left leaning Western media, the very media that has so indoctrinated these peacenik fools into believing in Hamas.

This confrontation was planned from the outset, it was designed to drive a wedge between Israel and the rest of the world, it was further designed to bring to an end any possibility of any good coming from any peace talks. Any fool that cannot see how these good but gullible people have been manipulated is making a choice not to see the obvious. Using what world “leaders” are now saying publicly as a way of proving their argument is laughable. What we are seeing is yet another nail in the coffin of Western democracy, one more Muslim nail. The ships were very unlikely to have been smuggling weapons, because the people behind these ships would not want that kind of evidence showing up and they knew perfectly well that those ships stood no chance of ever getting to Gaza. But that does not mean that there were not a few hand guns ready to start the desired fire fight and of course the knives and clubs. We have all by now seen the film, we have seen how many peaceful Turks attacked how many dangerous Israelis. We have all seen the first Israeli who set foot on the ship thrown down from one deck to the next. He stood no chance of defending himself, none did as they came down the ropes and as we have seen none were at that time firing their weapons.

None of this is enough, because it isn’t what many want to hear, it doesn’t suit your view of how the Israeli killers go about things. So even seeing it on film is not enough for you. A closed mind is the mind of a bigot and that is what we are seeing today. I have never read such stupidity before as I have read here today, excuse after excuse after excuse for what any intelligent person would see as obvious. Yes I do want a full UN investigation of what happened, I want many here to be shown what utter fools and bigot they really are. Your are supporting the people that will make sure that there is never any peace in the Middle East, until there isn’t a Jew left alive there. As you revel in you indignation think how proud you will feel when that final victory is yours and there are again millions of dead Jews for you to say you never believed people could do such things to each other. You may by then have forgotten that you played your part. As is normal for your kind.

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Well when you ignore the Israelis demand for a security check and try to outrun a blockade expect to be boarded. And when you use violence against them expect them to use it back. There is no surprise there. So what's the problem? Play with fire get burnt. But of course Israel is always wrong no matter what. I've been to that part of the world and I'll tell you the Israelis use more logic than the Palestinians. Palestinians lost my support with their inability to compromise and sit down with the Israelis and hold to a ceasefire agreement.

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Molenir and grafton, well excuse me dears, but the majority of decent people strongly disagree with both of you and your ghastly views.

People who wanted to help have been murdered and whuiel some mourn you mock us nice people who want to see peace.

The Israeli attack was simply horrid and even Sky which is awfully right wing say it was a heavy handed unprovoked attack. Terrorism i say, blatant terrorism!

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mikehuntez, There was no demand to check, just a helicopter and small boat commando attack with heavily armed militia, outside of Israeli juristiction. This arrack was on memebers of many nations. In days gone by wars have been started by actions like this.

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Unless of course you honestly believed that Israel would simply allow this challenge to its sovereignty to go unchecked.

Again Isreal doesn't own international waters, the challenge was not there yet. I find it disconcerting that commandos can drop on to a boat in international waters, when they weren't first fired upon. It sets a very dangerous precedent.

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i strongly regret the death of so many people. but it was a well-layed trap and idf stepped into it. its so obvious that those "peace activists" are just radicals using their own people for their questionable agenda. agree totally with grafton.

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Molenir said: Then they should have had no problem being inspected prior to them being allowed into Gaza.

They were not asked to be inspected and they were not boarded to be inspected. They were boarded for refusing to change course in international waters. We can guess that at the port they were directed to, the goal was to inspect and remove things like cement, refrigerators, potato chips and anything else that is a danger to Israel, but fact is what they did do is piracy.

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I find it worth while to share here (although theres no doubt my message will be removed - just like that for no good reason same as other messages i have posted and been removed out of context...)that who ever is responsible for selecting the talk back feed is quite biased if any one would like to know more regarding that matter contact me

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MistWizard at 07:37 AM JST - 1st June

Your nitpicking to support the unsupportable. Anybody with half a brain can see it was a set up from the very beginning. Israel’s mistake was that they went in too early and as such have given the global nitpickers something to hide behind. Why not simply face reality, even if you really hate Israel this one isn’t down to them.

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Stevepfc maybe you missed this small paragraph in your disgust and stopped reading:

Before the ships set sail from waters off the east Mediterranean island of Cyprus on Sunday, Israel had urged the flotilla not to try to breach the blockade and offered to transfer the cargo to Gaza from an Israeli port, following a security inspection.

Wonder why they have a blockade and wanted to do a security check? As peaceful intention that some may have had not all would have the same intentions and use this opportunity to smuggle in arms unknown to the people on board. But with them attacking the commando boarding party well I guess they got what they got for doing that. That's why boarding parties are armed.

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That's why boarding parties are armed.

Indeed. Its a good thing they were armed, otherwise all those Israelis might have been killed. Its much better that those who deliberately sought out this confrontation, be the ones who shed their blood. Though of course it would have been better had no blood on either side been spilled, and these useful idiots from the EU never come.

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mikehuntez, The Israelis arracked illegally in internation waters and commited a massacre. They ship have been stolen by the Israelis and believe you me if any arms were on board the Israeli propaganda machine would let us now.

It was an illegal attack, not a search in waters that have nothing to do with Israel, thus it was an act of terrorism against aid workers.

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First off steve, it's "attacked" and "international" that you want to say. And all Blockades are done in International waters. Like when Kennedy blockaded Cuba in the Cuban Missile Crisis for example. They have a blockade for a reason, to curtail the illegal smuggling of arms into Gaza for the Hamas to use against Israel. The offer was made to route the "aid" through Ashdod and instead the "peace activists" decided to run the blockade. Well when that is done military action, in the form of warning shots over the bow to stop ships, and boarding parties are utilized. So when "peace activists" decide to enact violence on the armed boarding parties then they should expect that those parties will respond with force to protect themselves. So this is completely brought on by the "peace activists" themselves. And now they can have a propaganda tool calling their own stupidity, "an act of terrorism against aid workers" that you seem to be happy to repeat.

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Look at all the peaceful protesters....

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d3b_1275323514

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It's all just a waste of time and and a waste of life. It was utterly, utterly stupid, and I hope no one else tries it again.

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Totally unprovoked violence by the Israelis, AGAIN. State sponsored terror on the high seas.

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Israel apologists - you need to fire your government for being monumentally idiotic.

Whatever the tribal concerns you have... this was so inept! I'm beginning to lose any grudging respect I had of the Israeli government usual strategic nous.

What did you think was going to happen? You were faced by a bunch of activists on a six boats, all you had to do was park a couple of warships next door or tie up their props.

You could have showed the world that you were determined and resourceful. You could have demonstrated the famous Israeli ability to think round a problem. Then you could have crowed about it. That would have made your critics look like idiots and proved your point.

Come on, it's not as if you don't have the robo-cyber-crazy-tech. You have one of the most innovative military industrial complexes in the world and some very smart people working for you.

But you chose to raid the ships. With incompetence and fatally. While being filmed. Under the eyes of the world.

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Totally unprovoked violence by the Israelis, AGAIN. State sponsored terror on the high seas.

Hey DingDong, I guess you didn't watch the video posted by SuperLib.

Israel apologists - you need to fire your government for being monumentally idiotic.

again dingdong, what does anyone's government have to do with it. there are differing opinions from people of all nations here. How is my Canadian government being idiotic? how is some Brit's government being idiotic? How is someone from Switzerland's government being idiotic? I think you should look in a mirror if you spouted a statement liket that above. Too bad the "eyes of the world" weren't so cloudy.

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Israeli logics are always Yakuza's logics. They have never taken legal action at UN. They use to resort to violence suddenly without warning.

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Now where are all of you guys when terrorists in Gaza, the west bank and southern lebanon fire thousands of rockets at ISraeli civilians?

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Who had robbed of the land of west bank? Who had killed children in Gaza? It was Israel.

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No, its Israels fault for daring to defend itself.

pffft... this must be the understatement of the year.

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Whatever the tribal concerns you have... this was so inept! I'm beginning to lose any grudging respect I had of the Israeli government usual strategic nous. What did you think was going to happen? You were faced by a bunch of activists on a six boats, all you had to do was park a couple of warships next door or tie up their props.

YongYang, I still believe that the stunt by the Free Gaza Movement was cheap and opportunistic. That said, I'm not sure how pro-Israeli supporters can insist that this latest act was out of mere self-defense.

This video was taken by the IDF navy to justify the Israeli response:

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=gYjkLUcbJWo

The Israel government says its soldiers faced violent resistance as they boarded the largest ship, the Marmara. The video by the Israeli supposedly showed intense fighting on the decks of the ship.

Soldiers being hit by chairs and metal poles/rods, one Israeli soldier being thrown out of the boat. Are these rational reactions you would expect from peace-minded activists? No.

BUT 20 PEOPLE WERE KILLED!

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90777/90852/7006851.html

To repeat myself...

A more sensible, tactful response would have just landed these people in jail-- not make martyrs out of their cheap political stunts.

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iruaustralia:

" A more sensible, tactful response would have just landed these people in jail "

So can you describe this "more sensible, tactful response" that you advocate?

In the event, on 5 of the 6 ships the boarding was carried out without a problem. It was on one of the ships (the one originating from Turkey) where the soldiers were faced with a rabid Arab speaking mob that immediately attacked them with iron bars.

How exactly would you have "tactfully and sensibly" defended your life in that situation?

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WilliB:

I only need to repeat myself to answer your question...

The Israel government says its soldiers faced violent resistance as they boarded the largest ship, the Marmara. The video (link above) by the Israeli supposedly showed intense fighting on the decks of the ship.

Soldiers being hit by chairs and metal poles/rods, one Israeli soldier being thrown out of the boat. Are these rational reactions you would expect from peace-minded activists? No.

But here's a question, given that this is the ninth time the organizers has sent flotillas to Gaza-- with five 'successful' missions during the blockade--why, now, did the Israelis mobilized its gunships and elite commandos against the group, and treated and branded them as terrorists?

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Have ships been sent to Gaza during the blockade before?

Yes, the Free Gaza Movement on its website says it has organized eight voyages to Gaza, "successfully arriving in Gaza five times." The group said its "boats are the first international ships to sail to the Gaza Strip since 1967."

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/05/31/gaza.flotilla.aid/?hpt=C1

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@Mikehunt (There's a Simpson's original):Members of the UN Security Council have condemned Israel ahead of an emergency session over Israel's deadly raid on a flotilla of ships carrying aid to Gaza.

Your view is totally out of whack, jack.

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Mikehunt, here's another nail-in-the-coffin for your high-sea terrorists:

One Australian is among dozens wounded during an Israeli commando raid on aid ships heading for Gaza, in which at least nine people (reportedly) died.

Two other Australians - Fairfax journalists Paul McGeough and Kate Geraghty - were on board the flotilla of ships taking humanitarian aid to the blockaded Gaza Strip, but were unharmed.

Australian Foreign Affairs Minister Stephen Smith told the ABC this morning that an Australian citizen had been shot in the leg during the raid, which has sparked international outrage.

The wounded man was receiving consular assistance, while the journalists had been advised they were open for deportation.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/australian-among-those-hurt-in-israeli-raid/1845941.aspx

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iraaustralia:

" Mikehunt, here's another nail-in-the-coffin for your high-sea terrorists: "

A nation defending its territorial borders is not a "high-seas terrorist". That misuse of language is highly offensive.

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iraustralia:

" why, now, did the Israelis mobilized its gunships and elite commandos against the group, and treated and branded them as terrorists? "

They didn´t. They expected political activists shouting slogans, not a bloodthirsty mob with knifes and iron bars.

That´s why the troops were armed with rubber bullets and rappelled down into the mess. If the Israeli government had expected an intifida mob, they surely would have thought about something else.

It helps, of course, that the entire mission was organized by a so-called "charity"... but anybody with Google can quickly find out that the IHH has deep links with islamic terrorist organizations.

For that, you are right to blame the Israeli government.

But I would like to know what you would do if you were attacked by a mob bent on killing you and had a handgun.

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A nation defending its territorial borders is not a "high-seas terrorist". That misuse of language is highly offensive.

Who said I was referring to a sovereign state with my statement... In fact, I'm only abiding with your description of the so-called peace activists as agitators. Was I being inconsistent, no?

They didn´t. They expected political activists shouting slogans, not a bloodthirsty mob with knifes and iron bars.

Ho Ho Ho!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=gYjkLUcbJWo

Soldiers being hit by chairs and metal poles/rods, one Israeli soldier being thrown out of the boat. Are these rational reactions you would expect from peace-minded activists? No.

But where were these handguns you speak of??

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but anybody with Google can quickly find out that the IHH has deep links with islamic terrorist organizations.

Insani Yardim Vakfi (IHH), a Turkish aid organisation with links to the Turkish government-- and Turkey being a close ally of Israel till this latest incident?

Surely you can do better than finger-pointing.

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This is an article, from UKs Telegraph, on the IHH.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/7790919/Gaza-flotilla-the-Free-Gaza-Movement-and-the-IHH.html

Israel does not dispute that the foundation, known by the intials (sic) of its name, IHH, provides relief compatible with its official status, including supplying food and medicines to orphans and conflict zones, and investing in education.

But they accuse it of overtly supporting Hamas, designated as a terrorist group by both the United States and the European Union, and also of being in contact with al-Qaeda cells and with the Sunni insurgency in Iraq.

The claims remain controversial, though IHH's public statements are aggressive. "It's an Islamist organisationas (sic) it has been deeply involved with Hamas for some time," said Henri Barkey, an analyst for the Carnegie Endowment. "Some of its members went on the boat saying that they had written their last will and testament."

Whatever the judgement (sic) on Israel's response, the violence with which the boarding parties were met will cause concern among peace activists associated with the convoy.

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AND MORE...

The Istanbul-based Foundation for Human Rights and Freedoms and Humanitarian Relief (IHH) is an Islamic charity group that was formed to provide aid to Bosnian Muslims in the mid-1990s. It has been involved in aid missions in Pakistan, Ethiopia, Lebanon, Indonesia, Iraq, Palestinian territories and other places, according to Turkish media.

-- Turkey's Islamist-leaning AK Party government publicly supported the flotilla, urging Israel to let it pass and saying the initiative was purely humanitarian. Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc denied Ankara gave any instructions to the IHH. The IHH has been involved in sending previous aid convoys to the Gaza Strip, which has been under an intensified blockade by Israel and Egypt since Hamas Islamists seized control in 2007.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64U4SO20100601

Again, my question...

Given that this is the ninth time the organizers (including it seems a HAMAS sympathizing, handguns carrying Islamic-terrorist linked charity group) has sent flotillas to Gaza-- with five 'successful' missions during the blockade--why, now, did the Israelis mobilized its gunships and elite commandos against the group, and treated and branded them as terrorists?

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Orro said: Id suggest you to read back some newspapers ....Israel left Gaza more then 3 years ago there is not even one Israeli soldier in Gaza theres no Border control of the EGYPTIAN side managed by Israel (this is by far the most ridiculous claim i heard lately...)

Glad to hear you think its ridiculous, since it is true. Maybe instead of sensationalist newspapers you should read some factual matter? The Rafah crossing was being run by the UN, but only with Israeli clearance. Now that the Israelis are not giving clearance, the UN is no longer there. In other words, its Israel ultimately in control of the Gaza side of the Rafah crossing. Since no one but Hamas is actually there now, Egypt has shut the border from their side because Hamas will not run it to Egypt's satisfaction. It might seem an odd method, but the result is that the prison of Gaza is locked up tight, and its by both the brute force and the machinations of the Israelis. The Egyptians are but bit players reacting to a bad situation. Too much interference, and they get a war they will no doubt lose, just like the last one.

you can not blame Israel for completely sealing its border with Gaza (loads of rockets and terror attacks are the only thing Israel is getting from there) what other excuses have you got?

I don't blame Israel for closing their side of the border. That would be their call. I blame them for a naval blockade which makes the situation worse for everybody. You cannot dictate that 1.5 million people cannot have fresh meat or cement or travel and expect them to NOT try and attack you. If you had any sense you would realize that you and your neighbors would react very much the same in their shoes.

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grafton said: Your nitpicking to support the unsupportable.

Never in my life did I ever think I would hear that internationally accepted rules of the sea would be declared nitpicking! Remind me to look you up if I become captain of a pirate ship because I am sure I could use uninhibited people such as yourself!

Anybody with half a brain can see it was a set up from the very beginning.

No brain is required for that. The activists admit it with their own tongues! It does not change the fact that apartheid by naval blockade is dead wrong dude. The Israelis could have avoided the set-up by simply staying off the ships. They could have avoided a lot of the outrage if they had simply waited for the ships to pass into what the Israelis claim as their waters, then disable the ships and tow them. Instead they chose to board like pirates and got attacked, just like any pirate would.

Israel’s mistake was that they went in too early and as such have given the global nitpickers something to hide behind. Why not simply face reality, even if you really hate Israel this one isn’t down to them.

Its down to them. They need to lift the blockade or at least stop treating the Gazan's like sub-humans. If they would let in the things these people need to live like people (fresh meat, cement, fertilizer) then people would look away. Yeah, Israel might suffer some rockets, but those things are way more bark than bite. And the Israelis have made that bed so what is the fuss over them sleeping it?

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MistWizard at 07:00 PM JST - 1st June

The “peace activists” are only a minor part of the set up, they are the useful idiot cover for a greater confrontation by people that cannot by any stretch of the imagination be called peaceful. I normally ignore the idiots on this site and there are many, you are however are not one of them so I don’t really feel a need to write simplistic detail with you and as such I would rather you didn’t play little games of deliberately misreading anything I write.

“Never in my life did I ever think I would hear that internationally accepted rules of the sea would be declared nitpicking!” Good sentence and well written, but what in any real sense has it got do with what I wrote? You know perfectly well that I wasn’t talking about the international law of the sea, I was talking about how this law was being used to justify a mob attack against a small number of poorly armed Israeli soldiers. The idea that that group of ships was ever going to reach Gaza was a none event from day one, everybody knew that. So why the attack on the soldiers, what point was being served by this? The argument today that these people had a right to defend themselves while in international waters is insane. They knew they were going to fail and they knew the Israeli navy was there so the game was at an end, having rights made no difference at that point because this was not a court of law. It was the desired confrontation and how violently that confrontation went was in the hands of the people on the ships, not the Israelis. If you fall into the simplistic media trap of saying what their readers want to hear rather than dealing with the reality of the situation then nothing you have to say is worth the time you have taken to write it.

I am not for one moment suggesting that the people on those ships expected to get shot at, but there was an element among them that had every intention of turning it violent and I do not for a moment believe it would have mattered where that ship was, that mob attack would still have taken place. You may not wish to speak badly of those that you would wish to defend, but you would expect me to speak badly of those I wish to defend if they were in the wrong. We have both seen the film, we both know that the soldiers were attacked by a mob, we have seen the level of violence before a shot was fired. Talking about where the ship was at the time of this violence is nitpicking. Any group of normal people attacked by a mob of that kind is going to defend itself, the Israelis did, you would have too. Because where the ship was didn’t matter a damn to those soldiers, staying alive was all that mattered to them. This level of violence didn’t happen on the other ships and nobody was killed, were they not also in international waters? The violence originated on that ship, and it matters not a bit that the Israelis had a right or not. Otherwise you need to explain why nobody was killed on the other ships.

The whole objective of this was to drive a wedge between Israel and Turkey, a probable future member of the EU. It was a success so maybe the few lives lost will seem a low price to have paid if the end of Israel is your ultimate objective.

I now think that the Gaza blockade should be lifted and the Gaza be treated as a fully functional independent country.

That way when they fire one single rocket into Israel it can then be termed an act of war. Maybe Hamas needs to be careful what it asks for. If Hamas want to run that country then they must take ultimate responsibility for ANY rocket fire from their land.

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The whole purpose of this 'cause' is to get the ghetto of Gaza freed from collective punishment, which --as a 'policy'-- is against international law. Another flotilla is already, ALREADY, being organized, they will get through --eventually. Then the children and law abiding inhabitants of the world's largest prison will have the basic human rights, the dignity, available to live. Brilliant tactics by the activists, this is the sort of approach Mohandas Karamchand Ghandi advocated and which brought the independence of India. Exposes the bullies, the violence and desperation of a corrupt gang running out of ideas.

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In fact I threw my socks at the TV when the Netanyahu press conference was broadcast. I fully expect and deserve the ensuing helicopter gunship assault for my act of aggression.

http://www.inminds.com/boycott-brands.html

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YongYang at 08:53 PM JST - 1st June “In fact I threw my socks at the TV when the Netanyahu press conference was broadcast. I fully expect and deserve the ensuing helicopter gunship assault for my act of aggression.”

I take it you see your socks as being deadly then.

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I now think that the Gaza blockade should be lifted and the Gaza be treated as a fully functional independent country.

Won't happen, and what you want is not that easy.

Netanyahu and his coalition allies have made clear that, especially given the strength of Hamas in both Gaza and the West Bank, they want Palestinian independence kept on hold for now.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6244R020100306

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Never been much a fan of Israel, and I think they were extremely foolish to be so easily set up on this occasion. But I think those posters who are rabidly anti-Israel and pro-Palestinian on every occassion regardless of obvious facts should browse the Media East Media Research Institute website www.memri.org. There you can see the mainstream Palestinian and Arab media teaching kids how to become martyrs, labelling Jews 'bacteria, apes and pigs' etc. You can also hear how the 'peace activists' were chanting "Oh Jews, the army of Muhammad will return" as the ships set sail. Watching this sort of footage should help in keeping some sense of perspective.

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But for my my question:

Given that this is the ninth time the organizers (including it seems a HAMAS sympathizing, handguns carrying Islamic-terrorist linked, anti-Jewish rambling anti-semitic-chants charity group) has sent flotillas to Gaza-- with five 'successful' missions during the blockade--why, now, did the Israelis mobilized its gunships and elite commandos against the group, and treated and branded them as terrorists?

Why? Because the ISRAELI intelligence was dead wrong on the flotilla raid, that boarding the ship (the Marmara) proved deadly-- that's 20 dead people, that the ISRAELI military used the wrong tactics.

It's a raid by ill-equipped elite commandos (equivalent to Australian SAS)-- NOT a raid to disperse rioting crowds. As a journalist in ISRAEL observed, (The military) really were expecting - in a very stupid way - that they will get into their ships and will be welcomed with coffee and cake.

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They should of waited until the ships were in Israeli waters. Doing it on the high seas makes them look like pirates.

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This is pretty much worse than the Israeli soldiers' killings of Palestinians in the Gaza strip in retaliation to suicide bombing attacks by the Hamas.

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grafton at 08:23 PM JST - 1st June. So why the attack on the soldiers, what point was being served by this? . The argument today that these people had a right to defend themselves while in international waters is insane.

What a joke. The invasion assault by the Israelis is same as North Korea, Taliban terrorist or pirates off the coast of Somalia. Israeli soldiers had no right being there. The assault began at 4.30am in international waters, about 60 miles from the coast of Gaza where the convoy was heading to deliver its cargo of aid. Israel should be considered a terrorist group and should be condemmed by U.S. and should have hearing in U.N. for implementing severe trade sanctions.

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You can also hear how the 'peace activists' were chanting "Oh Jews, the army of Muhammad will return" as the ships set sail. Watching this sort of footage should help in keeping some sense of perspective.

You're talking about this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3L7OV414Kk&feature=player_embedded

You're not giving us any perspective... you're giving us scapegoats!

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but for my my question:

I would think that in previous 'successful' missions, Israeli personnel checking the ships for munitions were not brutally attacked.

What a joke

The joke is people like you who can't digest facts. Lightly armed personnel boarding a blockade-running ship in order to search for munitions were brutally attacked. Had they not been attacked (as was the case in the other 5 ships) nothing would have gone wrong. But then, there wouldn't have been 10 'martyrs' to whip up an ignorant and hateful frenzy around the world.

You're not giving us any perspective... you're giving us scapegoats!

The output of the Palestinian and Arab mainstream media clearly shows that that culture is dripping with hatred of Jews (not just Israel.) It's the most overtly racist and genocidal culture on earth, and it's disgusting that people who have the gall to call themselves 'humanitarians' give it their unconditional support.

As I said, I'm no fan of Israel, but I'm not going to support genocidal racists is order to raise my right-on PC rating amongst the clueless.

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Lightly armed personnel boarding a blockade-running ship in order to search for munitions were brutally attacked. Had they not been attacked (as was the case in the other 5 ships) nothing would have gone wrong. But then, there wouldn't have been 10 'martyrs' to whip up an ignorant and hateful frenzy around the world.

I can see where you're going-- but simply paraphrasing ISRAELI spokespeople is rather tiresome. Yawn

However, let me say, nothing new will happen out of this 'lil incident. After all not unless the US becomes more unequivocal with a two-state solution, and re-enforce the Mitchell Agreement don't expect anything new. But that's rather contentious given its the midterm election.

But that's just my opinion :|

http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/the-gaggle/2010/06/01/why-israel-s-attack-on-an-aid-flotilla-won-t-be-a-tipping-point-in-its-relationship-with-the-u-s-.html

The output of the Palestinian and Arab mainstream media clearly shows that that culture is dripping with hatred of Jews (not just Israel.)

Question, do you judge a culture based on-- let's say-- website contents and media reports? If so, I wonder whether you judge the US as you'll see the Americans on Jerry Springer or a simple visit of white supremacist websites.

If so may I suggest don't watch the latest tourism blitz campaign from Australia... as, I'm afraid, you might not get the joke-- and start thinking that all Aussies are a bunch of bogans.

Enjoy the rest of your week :|

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It was 9 killed but nevermind..

I am from Israel but I agree with you all that the IDF should not have been board on the ship at 6:00 am but that not the soliders guilty, they just did what they were telling to do, Israel isn't guilty it's Ehud Barak that a lot of people in Israel want him to get fired I live in Israel and i know exactly what happen ^.^ I think that Gaza need to be free from the Hamas not from Israel

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Israel isn't guilty it's Ehud Barak that a lot of people in Israel want him to get fired I live in Israel and i know exactly what happen ^.^

Finger-pointing doesn't turn back time does it?

I think that Gaza need to be free from the Hamas not from Israel

What for, under the Mitchell Plan the group doesn't even exist.

And if you are to free Gaza from the democratically-elected group HAMAS-- a terrorist group under ISRAEL, US and EUROPEAN decree-- shouldn't you first suspend electoral democracy in the region? Now you wouldn't want that, as an ISRAELI, would you?

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the people of gaza chose hamas to rule them so they should live with their choices. if they don't like it, they should choose someone else.

while the loss of life is tragic, obviously the activist got exactly what they wanted. they were warned, given the option of off loading somewhere else but choose a direct confrontation and then choose to attack israeli troops. for them now to complain is hypocritical.

the big mistake the israeli made was boarding in international waters. what they probably should have done was try to stop them in territorial waters. if they refuse to stop, foul their props and tow them back into international waters and let them drift.

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while the loss of life is tragic, obviously the activist got exactly what they wanted. they were warned, given the option of off loading somewhere else but choose a direct confrontation and then choose to attack israeli troops. for them now to complain is hypocritical.

The intent of the organizers-- to defy the blockade-- was hypocritical and cheap, but as for the complaints, these activists are within their legitimate rights

One of the legal mistakes was to board the ship in int'l water, what they probably should have done was to act on the right intelligence, bring the right equipments and bring the right people instead of using elite commandos. But the ISRAELIS not only wanted to stop the vessel and let these people drift... they wanted to storm and raid the vessel as well.

They wanted to make a lesson out of these people-- and obviously the ISRAELIS got exactly what they wanted.

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I live in Israel, im 23

I like Japan culture for more than 10 years. All I can tell you guys is that Israel is a very good country no matter what you hear. the world is against us no matter what we will do, we arnt killing palastenians, if they die its because Hammas is hiding behind them, or the house they live in is full of weapons stored by Hammas, we left Gazza but Hammas still firing rockets at our citizens, you see the difference?

One thing is for sure, if they will stop all act of terror, if they will not fire rockets on our civilians, there will be a peace for sure. but they arnt doing it because they are supported by Iran and so. and thats why we arnt letting ships to come to Gazza because there can be weapons in there, therefore all Aid must come through a security check, and what happened on that Turkish ship was that our soldiers were thrown from the ship to the water, being shotted by pistols and had a huge life risk so THATS WHY the soldiers started to shoot them, elsewhere, they wouldnt.

thats a comment from someone who knows, and really lives in israel. have a nice day

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In addition to what I wrote, I want to to take a look at this please:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obUhOcTSD1I

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In addition to what I wrote, I want to to take a look at this please:

Done. But mind if you read this article (and accompanying comments) and tell us whether, in light of US support and amity with the state of ISRAEL, the arguments put forth by the gentleman on the video are still unassailable?

http://www.politico.com/blogs/laurarozen/0610/Biden_on_Gaza_raid_Israel_has_a_right_to_know_if_arms_being_smuggled.html?showall

As for HAMAS--which as you say is supported by the IRANIANS-- the group doesn't even figure. The MITCHELL PLAN (The Road-map) has pretty much laid out a NO-HAMAS dialogue. Period.

One thing is for sure, if they will stop all act of terror, if they will not fire rockets on our civilians, there will be a peace for sure.

For you to say stop, and do this, don't you think it's wise to have the other side on the table? But how's that possible when the (US-European-Israeli) directive clearly imposes that the other side (HAMAS) doesn't even figure. It's convenient to say you're for peace when all signs points to NO!

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Israel has a right to defend itself. From Hamas's inception in 1987, it has continually refused to accept Israel's right to even exist and demand it's destruction. They've launched several thousand homemade V1 rockets into Israel. Terrorist suicide attacks and armed incursions continually cross the border from Gaza into Israel. You can only poke at a lion for so long before it fights back.

The Palestinians elected Hamas to represent them because of it's continued call for the destruction of Israel. This blockade was established by Egypt and Israel to prevent the re-arming of the Palestinians. The underlying goal of the IHH, which organized these blockage runners, is to make it easier, in the future, to deliver explosives and weapons to Gaza. The humanitarian aid issue is a red herring.

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Israel has a right to defend itself. From Hamas's inception in 1987, it has continually refused to accept Israel's right to even exist and demand it's destruction.

I doubt anyone here wanted to defend HAMAS--being a terror group-- it'll be unfeasible, unworkable and impossible to defend HAMAS!

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This says it better than I could:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/03/AR2010060304287.html

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the killed were shot 30 times at close range. The IDF kills like the mafia kills. There is no difference in the criminal nature of both groups. Face it, this is state terrorism by Israel to continue the apartheid policies in gaza. The people who faced Hitler in WW2 are now no better than their former enemy. Ruthless killers with no regard for humanity.

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If anyone wanna deliver goods to the gazza people, it needs to pass a security check first, so there will be no risk of deliver weapons / world wide terrorists to gazza. thats the only reason israel stops those ships. Israel killing as a mafia? why don't you say it like this: the "good people" on the ship started to shoot the IDF FIRST, tried to crack their heads with metal stick, AND THAN the IDF had no other way but to defend their lives. thats the truth, so before you saying murderers, learn the facts please.

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IMHO, Israel has been playing the Victim card(we the poor prosecuted people, etc) for way too long and gotten away with too many things.

Looking at the history of palestine, Israel always controlled them. Anything happens that Israel don't like and the borders close, goods don't come in, people can't go their legal work in Israel, ambulances are delayed and people in them die at times, etc.

Can't really fault the Palestinians for lopping a few rockets and trying to get a better deal. Try living in a place where businsses close due to lack of mechandise, you can't go to work(hence no money to buy stuff), etc.

Doubt anyone else would take it quietly.

For me the solution to a lot of the middle-east problems is that Israel needs to be reigned in.

Just my view.

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Zenny11 - Can't really fault the Palestinians for lopping a few rockets and trying to get a better deal. Try living in a place where businsses close due to lack of mechandise, you can't go to work(hence no money to buy stuff), etc.

Yes, you can. The borders are closed and walls are built BECAUSE there have been constant attacks against Israel since it's very inception. The Palasinians left Israel voluntarily in 1948 after being assured by the Arab world that Israel would soon be defeated and they could return after an Arab victory. Israel had asked Arabs NOT to leave, saying that the two groups could work and live together.

The Palestinians have been playing the victim card ever since.

p.s. 4000 plus rockets are generally not considered 'a few'.

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