Protests planned across U.S. to back Apple in battle with FBI

The White House so far has stood behind the FBI in its battle with Apple Inc.

Why use "so far"? The White House (even this administration) should ALWAYS and FULLY be supporting federal agencies like the FBI, when it comes to their investigative techniques on "Terrorism." btw Apple is so wrong.

btw Apple is so wrong.

No they aren't.

Why use "so far"? The White House (even this administration) should ALWAYS and FULLY be supporting federal agencies like the FBI, when it comes to their investigative techniques on "Terrorism."

Not when their actions are counter-productive to society as a whole.

btw Apple is so wrong.

No. Apple is so right in this case.

Apple is out of line, how dare they impede and block an investigation, love Apple, but they are so wrong as well as hypocrites, they've done this before and they could do it again, but they are just being....

Apple is out of line

No.

how dare they impede and block an investigation

They aren't.

but they are so wrong as well as hypocrites, they've done this before and they could do it again

No they can't.

Of course Apple is out of line. The Feds don't care about anyone else's phone, they just want the info of 2 dead jihadists. Again, Apple has done this before, now they want to be ***** about this? Astounding.

And if they aren't impeding on the investigation, then unlock the phone, if they don't, they are not helping and if they weren't impeding, there wouldn't be a lawsuit.

No they can't.

Yes, they can.

But in a similar case in New York last year, Apple acknowledged that it could extract such data if it wanted to. And according to prosecutors in that case, Apple has unlocked phones for authorities at least 70 times since 2008. (Apple doesn’t dispute this figure.)

Of course they can and should.

if they aren't impeding on the investigation, then unlock the phone, if they don't, they are not helping and if they weren't impeding, there wouldn't be a lawsuit.

Faulty logic.

Yes, they can.

No they can't.

in a similar case in New York last year, Apple acknowledged that it could extract such data if it wanted to. And according to prosecutors in that case, Apple has unlocked phones for authorities at least 70 times since 2008. (Apple doesn’t dispute this figure.)

Someone needs to do some fact checking.

Faulty logic.

To whom? People that believe Apple has the right to defy Feds in order to stop future attacks when they have done this before?

No they can't.

Ok, so Apple is outright lying then, that makes it worse.

Someone needs to do some fact checking.

I did, but I know liberals just have a difficult time dealing with the truth....as usual.

To whom?

This question makes no sense. Logic stands on it's own and is not dependent upon the observer. Your logic is faulty. So I guess the answer would be 'to everybody, though some people do not have the intelligence to understand the logic'.

Ok, so Apple is outright lying then

No they aren't.

I did, but I know liberals just have a difficult time dealing with the truth....as usual.

No.

Since 2008... You do realise that Apple, Facebook and Twitter all said after the Edward Snowden incident that they would never create such back doors again? Since that time... They haven't. Apple is not wrong to oppose. The FBI is wrong to ask.

Imagine for a moment if the FBI demanded that a gun manufacturer put a chip in a weapon that would allow the FBI to track the usage of any weapon? Or if TV manufacturers had put software in TV's so the FBI could see what you are watching? Maybe shoe manufacturers could be forced to put software in your shoe laces that would report to authorities just where it is you've been going?

This isn't about terrorism. This isn't about security.

This is about the FBI trying to strip from each and everyone of us the right to be secure from unwarranted observation and scrutiny by the big eye of government.

Apple could -easily- parse the info from the phone and provide that, and nothing else, as the court ordered. And, they could do it w/o divulging the process, which has to be Apple intellectual property, to anyone outside Apple. Apple is wrong, and should comply. I, along with others, will boycott Apple.

Apple could -easily- parse the info from the phone

No they couldn't. It's encrypted, and the method they use prevents even apple from decrypting it.

they could do it w/o divulging the process, which has to be Apple intellectual property, to anyone outside Apple.

The problem is that in doing so, they open Pandora's box. What if someone leaks the method - then the iphones of everyone everywhere have a security compromise. The problem is that once the tool is created, it's out there, and can't be put back in the box.

Apple is wrong

No.

lol no, us average Joes are not that cool to warrant watching. Despite what 1984 conspiracy theorist want to believe, Big Brother doesn't have the time or resources to watch us unless we're involved in illegal activities.

Snowden is a trustworthy as water pipes in Flint, MI. He couldn't even honor the Nondisclosure Agreement he signed so I wouldn't be surprised if some things were doctored by him. After all, why didn't he take this evidence to a lawyer or the ACLU?

lol no, us average Joes are not that cool to warrant watching. Despite what 1984 conspiracy theorist want to believe, Big Brother doesn't have the time or resources to watch us unless we're involved in illegal activities.

Snowden is a trustworthy as water pipes in Flint, MI. He couldn't even honor the Nondisclosure Agreement he signed so I wouldn't be surprised if some things were doctored by him. After all, why didn't he take this evidence to a lawyer or the ACLU?

A lot of truth to this. I'm not concerned about the likes of the FBI or any agency like that watching me. I am concerned about them holding something they don't understand... and it is exactly because of people like Edward Snowden that I don't trust any security agency to be able to keep the technology secure. Security from the state is not the issue for me.

Yes, nobody wants Big Brother nosing around in their personal business. However, when national security is on the line, the government always wins. It doesn't matter whether a warhawk like GW Bush or a dove like Obama is behind the wheel, national security overrules everything. Like it or not, the next big terrorist attack in which iPhones play a major role will be the straw which breaks the camel's back.

"Every iPhone is a gift from God." ........what Islamic extremists are saying

No they aren't.

Yes they are. People let's not get it confused. Apple is a business that sells phones and computers and software. They don't have any say in what is constitutional or can define our rights. They sell a product, and nowhere does it say that if one buys that product, they have given over their 4th Amendment rights (for US citizens only) or other civil rights to that company.

Also, people are concerned about eavesdropping by big government, I can see that, but Apple and Google do the same thing. Click on an Amazon link one of these days. Close your browser and come back and get on the net again. That little cookie that was left from your last search is being "sold" by that very same company based on your browsing history to some third party to target advertising to you. So much for privacy as long as it doesn't prevent them from making a buck.

From my understanding, Apple has done this in the past, and made it a very tedious process to do so. And the Feds are not asking for a release of the software to unlock the phone to the public, but for this specific phone, that will be unlocked under Apple's faraday room (as it has been done by them in the past) and the software will solely be Apple's. If they are worried about it spreading, then that is an internal matter for them and if that is the case, then this whole "un-crackable" system they are selling is a myth and a marketing ploy to get people to buy in.

Apple needs to comply just like in any other case where the police have gone through the authorities and did the proper thing for a search warrant.

One other point to make, the owners of the phone have given permission for it to be unlocked. It was a state of CA work issued phone, not their personal phone. If they have agreed to it being opened, then why doesn't Apple comply?

"The FBI contends Apple is exaggerating the security risks of complying with the court order in a marketing ploy aimed at selling more iPhones."

BS, and the FBI knows it. They've pushed this too far, and now there is huge backlash. I don't want my iPhone to be made more accessible to others if lost or stolen simply so that the FBI can get what they could easily just have asked Apple for in this one case. Apple could have unlocked the phone in question and given the info to the FBI, but they want the whole package for future use, obviously.

In effect, the court is ordering Apple to figure out a way and write a code that would take off the "# of incorrect passcode logins" limit (which when reached, the iPhone would erase all contents). When that limit is gone, the FBI could then brute-force guess the passcode and thus unlock the iPhone.

Apple argues that even if they could figure out a way to do it and write that code, someone somehow somewhere some way knowledge of how they figured it out would eventually escape into the wild, and if there's no fix/patch around it, then everyone's iPhone would be vulnerable to any hacker. And since there's no fix, then nobody would ever buy an iPhone - or even if there's a fix, it may require a hardware fix (not a software fix), meaning everyone would be forced to purchase a new iPhone version with the hardware fix immediately.

makes no sense.

Since when have liberals EVER used sense to debate an argument instead of emotion?

Logic stands on it's own and is not dependent upon the observer.

How so?

Your logic is faulty.

Really, you mean by helping the Feds and Apple trying to prove a point on something they will most likely lose in the Supreme Court.

So I guess the answer would be 'to everybody, though some people do not have the intelligence to understand the logic'.

Hmmm, if I weren't mistaken, it would seem you are trying to make a personal attack.

No they aren't

Of course they are, so you are right now misconstruing what Cook said' on the record. He admitted it. So either Cook is outright lying or you're saying that the 6 figure income these guys make, they can't or don't have the means to get into the phone and create another skeleton key, when they've already done it many times?

As I said, liberals just have a very difficult time dealing with the truth.

From my understanding, Apple has done this in the past, and made it a very tedious process to do so. And the Feds are not asking for a release of the software to unlock the phone to the public, but for this specific phone, that will be unlocked under Apple's faraday room (as it has been done by them in the past) and the software will solely be Apple's. If they are worried about it spreading, then that is an internal matter for them and if that is the case, then this whole "un-crackable" system they are selling is a myth and a marketing ploy to get people to buy in.

Exactly, Apple has done this, there is absolutely NO reason why they can't do it again, none! But it might take awhile, but I know Apple will either bend to this or the Supreme Court will make them.

Apple needs to comply just like in any other case where the police have gone through the authorities and did the proper thing for a search warrant.

The real problem here is that most libs are overly paranoid, I could care less if anyone were to listen to my conversations, most people on the planet aren't worth listening to and are a waste to the Feds time, relax.

BS, and the FBI knows it.

That Tim Cook is full of **** I agree!

They've pushed this too far, and now there is huge backlash. I don't want my iPhone to be made more accessible to others

My, oh, my....you got something to hide? Believe me, the Feds could care less about you or me. Now if you're a terrorist and you leave crumbs and are involved in and or doing something nefarious, then you should be paranoid.

if lost or stolen simply so that the FBI can get what they could easily just have asked Apple for in this one case.

What on Earth are you talking about it? Apple did this before, this is an ongoing investigation, why on Earth would the FBI immediately go to Apple? They thought they could do this without involving Apple and when they did ask them, Apple should have said, give us the phone, we will retrieve the information and we keep the phone for disposal or whatever they want to do with it.

But Apple was stupid going toe to toe with the Feds, it didn't help the Mob and in the end, it won't help Apple either.

Apple could have unlocked the phone in question and given the info to the FBI, but they want the whole package for future use, obviously.

ROFL! And your proof of that is....

After the Sony hack in which the email addresses and credit card details of millions of users were leaked, governments all over the world were demanding answers from Sony... there was a monetary penalty albeit just a token amount... there were lawsuits against Sony... one judge in California dismissed a case because, as he put it, there was no such thing as perfect security. The more recent hack of Sony entertainment even forced new cyber security legislation to be proposed in America. While I agree there is no such thing as perfect security... there never will be if whenever it is near a government can force it to be broken. Creating new security legislation means absolutely nothing when they can go out and undermine the efforts of those actually creating robust systems.

It has very little to do with the possibility of the FBI to snoop, and a heck of a lot to do with the possibility of the tool being misused by those who would mean us harm.

Apple is a business that sells phones and computers and software. They don't have any say in what is constitutional or can define our rights. They sell a product, and nowhere does it say that if one buys that product, they have given over their 4th Amendment rights (for US citizens only) or other civil rights to that company.

Nobody is giving over any rights to Apple. Apple is 100% obliged to protect the security and privacy of their customers in America and all over the world to the best of their ability.

Apple needs to comply just like in any other case where the police have gone through the authorities and did the proper thing for a search warrant.

Follow the law right? If nobody ever opposed laws there would be no right for women to vote, no gay marriage... there would probably still be slavery in America. Nobody would ever have the right to appeal a case that has gone against them that's for sure.

Of course they are, so you are right now misconstruing what Cook said' on the record. He admitted it. So either Cook is outright lying or you're saying that the 6 figure income these guys make, they can't or don't have the means to get into the phone and create another skeleton key, when they've already done it many times?

It's not that they can't do it, it's that they shouldn't do it.

There is so much wrong with the FBI request it isn't funny, it should actually be considered illegal... but people will believe what they will believe, and yes even though I disagree with him over whether the ruling is right or not, Bass4funk is right when he says -

but I know Apple will either bend to this or the Supreme Court will make them.

Posting the letter on their website is a warning letting their customers know that it is going to happen either way and there isn't anything they can do about it.

Since when have liberals EVER used sense to debate an argument instead of emotion?>

It's almost amusing that you don't see the irony in this. Your statement has no sense, even less proof. Everything you disagree with is seen as a Liberal conspiracy. Capital letters convey your anger at 'Liberal' demons. The definition of which is, "willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas". Apple should certainly resist, a cornerstone of liberty is at stake here. I have nothing to hide, but that doesn't mean I want you to see everything

It's almost amusing that you don't see the irony in this.

Really? What irony? I do see hypocrisy in full force.

Your statement has no sense, even less proof. Everything you disagree with is seen as a Liberal conspiracy.

For the most part, but conspiracy as in the things Michael Moore believes, NO.

Capital letters convey your anger at 'Liberal' demons.

Very true, but don't worry, I have quite a bit of anger set aside for the Republican establishment as well. It's just progressive liberals are cardiac arrest inducing.

The definition of which is, "willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas". Apple should certainly resist, a cornerstone of liberty is at stake here.

Ok, but I don't agree with your opinion. I believe that in THIS particular situation given what transpired in San Bernardino with the two Jihadists, it is imperative for the Feds to find out how these people orchestrated this crime. The paranoia that grips MOSTLY libs is way of an overreaction. You guys make it seem that the Feds are requesting this kind of information all the time. Apple has lost their damned mind after what happened to deny the requests in this situation assist them in finding out and preventing future plots, whether they be foreign, domestic, sleeper cells, planned major attacks and Apple is basically saying, we just need to live with us possibly getting hit, but if terrorists struck hard in Cupertino or anywhere else in the silicone valley and a lot deaths occurred as a result or don't even take that scenario, let's say anywhere else. Again, as much as I am a fan and a supporter of Apple products, I can't support Apple on this.

I have nothing to hide, but that doesn't mean I want you to see everything.

And they wouldn't, leave the paranoia, dude.

Apple will most likely lose. It's a criminal investigation and the phone is government property and naturally it would be part of the investigation. What Apple is saying is that they choose to keep the information out of reach from investigators and that won't fly.

On the other hand, the government has shown its more than willing to go outside of the original scope when it comes to things like this. They destroyed their own credibility and deserve the skepticism people are throwing its way.

In the next round, Apple will probably make it really impossible for the information to be extracted, and for Apple to defeat the mechanism they installed for that.

Don't know what the federal response to that will be. Force them to install a hardware backdoor? Drop Apple's export license and force them to become either a wholly intra-USA company or an extra-USA company?

Apple will most likely lose. It's a criminal investigation and the phone is government property and naturally it would be part of the investigation. What Apple is saying is that they choose to keep the information out of reach from investigators and that won't fly.

On the other hand, the government has shown its more than willing to go outside of the original scope when it comes to things like this. They destroyed their own credibility and deserve the skepticism people are throwing its way.

I agree, good point.

Apple will most likely lose.

I agree, in the long run, they probably will. That said, it's extremely important that:

1) They push it as far as it can go (Supreme Court) so that they don't just bow to the demands

2) They make it as difficult for the feds as possible, so that they will make sure to pick and choose carefully when they will push for this.

It would be interesting if other countries placed some lawsuits either against apple or the feds on this matter, since the lessening of security for all iphone users in the entire word will be compromised for an issue that is only American.

Apple talks tough with the US Government, but with China, they give in to demands, such as keeping their servers for people in China in China. I wonder what Apple would say if the Chinese government "asked" them to get an I-phone open.

As I mentioned, Apple sells a product, not civil liberties. This is a one-time asking by the owners (the CA state government who have given permission to the FBI). They should comply with the court order. Another sad case similar to this is one from Louisiana. A lady was killed and the police found her with her I-phone in her hand. The authorities would like to look into the phone, to see if there was some clue as to what happened, maybe something could identify who killed her. Apple will not assist the local authorities, and the case remains open with no clues. So is that really something that Apple wants on their hands if another terrorist attack occurs from a group that these guys may have had some contact with? If we have to subject ourselves to the sometimes out of the way screening to get on an airplane, the least Apple could do is open up one particular phone for one particular set of circumstances.

Apple's primary motivation in requiring digitally-signed updates is to not provide hardware that other companies can make money off of, without paying Apple tax.

They could easily add a switch that permits enabling/disabling of O/S installation or patches, then the customer could decide on their own what patches and O/S installs to apply, without risk from random hackers.

Instead, you can only install O/Ses or patches or apps they approve of.

Suppose they provide their key to the Feds and it gets into the wild? After a while third-party O/Ses would appear. With no walled-garden App Store.

They haven't been in the business this long for nothing. But don't imagine they've got your interests at heart.

Suppose they provide their key to the Feds and it gets into the wild? After a while third-party O/Ses would appear. With no walled-garden App Store.

Or they could unlock it in a controlled Apple environment and just open it and not provide the means to do so. If the technology gets out, then it would have been the fault of an Apple employee not the FBI.

They make it as difficult for the feds as possible, so that they will make sure to pick and choose carefully when they will push for this.

Utter nonsense. Congress is already talking about changing the law to prevent something like this from happening again, good on them.

Or they could unlock it in a controlled Apple environment and just open it and not provide the means to do so. If the technology gets out, then it would have been the fault of an Apple employee not the FBI.

But it would be the fault of the feds for the existence of the technology in the first place, since they are commanding Apple to create it.

Congress is already talking about changing the law to prevent something like this from happening again, good on them.

Well, if they do that, you won't be able to blame Obama for that further regression of personal liberties.

Personally, I think that a decision like that should be left for the next congress to decide /endirony

Apparently Apple is not above providing management a way around this problem. They just want to charge $4 a month for it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/common-software-would-have-let-fbi-unlock-shooters-iphone/2016/02/21/d285f764-d8fe-11e5-8210-f0bd8de915f6_story.html

The county government that owned the iPhone in a high-profile legal battle between Apple Inc. and the Justice Department paid for but never installed a feature that would have allowed the FBI to easily and immediately unlock the phone as part of the terrorism investigation into the shootings that killed 14 people in San Bernardino, California.

If the technology, known as mobile device management, had been installed, San Bernardino officials would have been able to remotely unlock the iPhone for the FBI without the theatrics of a court battle that is now pitting digital privacy rights against national security concerns.

The service costs $4 per month per phone. ...

Well, if they do that, you won't be able to blame Obama for that further regression of personal liberties.

Hey, he's almost as good as out of here. I'm excited, so NO, I won't need to blame him. Peace shall come to us all.

Personally, I think that a decision like that should be left for the next congress to decide /endirony

I think it should be made ASAP!

I think it should be made ASAP!

And you just illustrate the irony. When it's something that may benefit your party to wait, you think that waiting is appropriate. But when it's something that would more likely benefit your party to act quickly, you think that acting quickly is appropriate. Surely even you can see the hypocrisy there.

And you just illustrate the irony. When it's something that may benefit your party to wait, you think that waiting is appropriate.

Sorry, but for me, I couldn't care less, the incident happened about 24 km away from where I grew up, but in the same district. For me, it's deeper than what the party wants and again, I'm not a Republican. I'm a conservative independent.

But when it's something that would more likely benefit your party to act quickly, you think that acting quickly is appropriate. Surely even you can see the hypocrisy there.

Actually, not at all. I just want the Feds to solve this crisis and to stop or prevent the next assault from happening. That's what I care about.

America has spoken. 51% in favor of Apple unlocking the phone, 38% against, 11% undecided.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/apple-fbi-poll-should-apple-unlock-san-bernardino-terrorists-iphone/

America has spoken. 51% in favor of Apple unlocking the phone, 38% against, 11% undecided.

Who cares. Iphone owners are in countries all across the world. This goes beyond just Americans. You people may be willing to give up your civil liberties, but that doesn't mean the rest of us are.

Sorry, bro. You don't get a vote.

But I am definitely going to have my say, as are other people all around the world. This is bigger than 'Merica.