Putin says liberalism 'eating itself,' migrant influx wrong

election results show that people want change.

And as long as systems remain democratic, changes are possible.

Unlike the thugocracies in Russia, China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc. where authoritarian regimes restrict, poison, disappear and eliminate opposition.

Mostly/only yanks & poms call liberals lefties.

Brits don’t call liberals ‘lefties’. We call them liberals. The word is usually understood as members or supporters of the Liberal Democrats, a party that tries to position itself as the sensible centre option. They’ve been emphasizing this since with some force since the Labour Party elected a leftie leader.

Given that Clinton won just under three million more popular votes than Donny, it's very clear that Americans favor liberal policies.

Right. Just 1% more of the population favored a seasoned and accepted politician over a crude and vulgar reality TV star and philanderer who wold never in ordinary circumstances stand a chance of being nominated. And that signals clear support for liberal policies.

OK.

Sorry Vlad, you have no mascot so getting understanding is confusing and regrettable.

perhaps a deep bow might clear this up?

"Millions of people live their lives, and those who propagate those ideas are separate from them."

How about Russia and 'Putin's Palace'? http://moneyversed.com/putin-vacation-home/

How about the Russian oligarchs (aka Putin's pals) with their 150+ meter, US$500.million yachts? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPwxHMWrUZ4

Are Putin and his oligarchs living communally with their fellow Russians?

How about the Saudi ruling family? Chinese CCP members? Are their lives 'separate' from those they rule?

The term itself is vague, ill defined and poorly understood.

I fully agree. I think Putin, Trump, Bannon-Breitbart and so many others pushing some form of authoritarian, nationalistic systems have been effective at creating their own glossary of terms to appeal to followers unable or unwilling to look any deeper than the word/meme level.

They've taken vague terms and given them meaning to their followers. 'Liberal', and by extension 'liberalism', along with 'the left', 'socialism', and in the US 'Democrat' are terms that have come to mean 'our enemy' in Putin/Trump talk.

And their followers parrot them.

Just because Putin is a traditional enemy of the US does not mean he is stupid

Putin bad, bad, bad, bad. Anything he says automatically is bad, Putin bad, orange man bad.

Putin is far more intelligent and shrewder than Trump. His words need to be considered more carefully. Trump’s words are often brain farts, something he saw on Fox and Friends or 3am trash tweets from the potty.

Nobody is saying Putin is stupid. Who are you refuting here?

Putin did not say anything about "Western liberalism", he talked against "liberalism". There is no "western" liberalism, there is just "liberalism". There is no "western" democracy, there is just "democracy". There are no "western rights", there are just "rights". The level to which this cult has developed is insane. What used to be merely a geographical term has now become a superiority status associated to everything holy in the universe.

When people talk about "liberalism" what are they talking about? Depends who are you asking. The concept has a different meaning to different people. It was originally used as a reaction to the tyrannical monarchies in Europe to mean "freedom", or "liberty", hence "liberalism". It meant not being controlled by the State, having personal rights, and back then, personal rights meant having to keep your farm stock and your land. Over the years, it expanded to include other rights, such as the right to vote.

Today to most Americans the word "liberalism" means free healthcare, free education, free everything, it means government care. It means socialism. State control. In Europe, the term is mostly associated with Democracy and Human rights, however the concept of human rights is gradually expanding even in Europe to include a lot of the stuff that it already includes to most Americans.

I am European so i can say this, but many Europeans are cunning, deceptive and double faced. They pretend that "liberalism" means being "open" and "tolerant" to foreigners, and they preach these "ideals" while at the same time practicing the exact opposite. And the media of these countries is no better either, they mostly go along with putting that image out there, while ignoring all the obvious double standards and hypocritical acts of their own governments, while also at the same time pointing the finger at other countries for not being "like them" by which they mean not having a fake image not grounded on reality. A good example is German media's constant bashing on Hungary. The German leader Angela Merkel went to China to sign multi billion euro investment deals, the German media praises her and praises Germany, then Chinese delegation goes to Hungary to talk business, and the German media starts bashing Hungary for doing business with China. Astonishing.

The Animal Kingdom, sorry, i mean the Untied Kingdom for example, puts out the image of being a "liberal democracy", a made up term that has no meaning, while in reality, they moved their border check point in France in order to prevent refugees from setting foot on their territory so they can't claim asylum. Their media is of course complicit, never questioning anything their government does, they are too busy pointing the fingers at others. Their whole Brexit campaign was based on "80 million Turks are coming!", while at the same time the very same people who put out these posters say their country is "liberal democracy". The lack of self-awareness is beyond words.

Few years ago when people in Barcelona were rioting for independence, and then they organized a vote, which was brutally suppressed by the Spanish police, all that was captured on film how they brutally beat people on the streets to stop them from voting. What did the European media do? literally nothing. They barely covered this. What did the American media do? Nothing, they simply replayed some footage from BBC. Where was the outcry? Where was the condemnation? Is Spain a "liberal democracy"? It doesn't look very "liberal" to me. Imagine if same thing happened in China, or in Russia, or in any other "bad" country, it would be all over the news "look at how illiberal these inferior countries are compared to us, the people in charge of the narrative".

Also, about LGBT. In America, same sex marriage became legal in 2015. So does that mean America was not a "liberal" society until 2015? Gay marriage was also illegal in Germany, and many other "cool" countries until recently, in many it still isn't, so does that mean these countries are not, or were not "liberal"?

The usage of that term is contradictory, it makes no sense, it's full of double standards and vaguely understood concepts. The term itself is vague, ill defined and poorly understood. It gets interpreted highly subjectively to people's convenience.

As a unaposed "Leader" I too would disparage any opposition to my rule by grouping them all under one label. It's makes it easier to pass laws that send them into oblivion. While I sail the world in my awrsom private cruise liner, my watch is worth more than your house....ha, ha, ha.

World nuclear superpowers the U.S. and Russia being on relative peaceful terms compared to previous hostile relations should be viewed as a welcome relief no matter our views on each of these countries leaders.

The usage of that term is contradictory, it makes no sense, it's full of double standards and vaguely understood concepts. The term itself is vague, ill defined and poorly understood. It gets interpreted highly subjectively to people's convenience.

That’s exactly what you did in the very same post to show your hatred of other countries. Your hatred of the US and the UK is almost non-stop.

@jimizo, some/many brits do tbh (on social media, the ones i know etc. perhaps they -my eng mates- arent nearly as cultured/erudite as you are ;). Imo, liberals are often mistakenly confused with lefties in north am & -perhaps to a lesser extent- britain and the terms 'lefties' & 'liberals' seem to have become interchangeable (again, in eng language).

The vast majority of ppl (and am not only talking about the us & uk here) do no know what liberalism, socialism, communism etc mean anyway.

He said the claims of Russian meddling in the U.S. election

Claims of meddling? Only Trump and Putin's staunchest followers would 'claim' Russia didn't meddle in US elections. As well as other elections in the 'western' democracies Putin's trying to undermine.

We should have slammed the doors on China after the Tiananmen Square Massacre, the Saudis after its murder of Khashoggi and the Russians after its invasion and annexation of Crimea, not to mention the murdering it's conducted on foreign soil with chemical weapons.

Why do these countries and their dictators deserve seats at the table? Their seats should be taken away and they should be cast out like the plague.

Are you proud, Mitch? Are you proud, Lindsey? Are you proud Congressional Republicans? A Russian thug owns your moronic leader, lock, stock, and barrel.

I fully agree. I think Putin, Trump, Bannon-Breitbart and so many others pushing some form of authoritarian, nationalistic systems have been effective at creating their own glossary of terms to appeal to followers unable or unwilling to look any deeper than the word/meme level.

They've taken vague terms and given them meaning to their followers. 'Liberal', and by extension 'liberalism', along with 'the left', 'socialism', and in the US 'Democrat' are terms that have come to mean 'our enemy' in Putin/Trump talk.

And their followers parrot them.

Very well stated. The far-right ideologues in conjunction with members of the far-right media converged their interests in the late 1990s to create a fictional black and white world where "liberal" and "conservative" have their own definitions completely devoid of their real meaning. The reasons were simple - for the far-right ideologues it was political power, for the far-right media it was money. An they've preyed upon the less educated in our society ever since - increasing their power and wealth.

In 2014, Vladimir Putin steps into this narrative, sensing an opportunity to create chaos in the US and to further Russian interests to include championing his thugocracy form of governing and to delegitimize western democratic institutions and governments. In this he succeeded also.

His comments in this article are merely a continuation of this strategy. Putin's adoration by the far-right in America shows how the Republican Party we once knew is no more. GOP does indeed now stand for Guardians of Putin.

Anyone here think Eisenhower, Goldwater or Reagan would be joking with Khrushchev or Gorbachev if the Russians attacked the fundamentals of our democracy?

"The liberal idea has started eating itself," Putin said at a news conference.

cant have feedom of speech , or basic humans rights. Rule of law!?, their word is the law. The basic foundation of all dicatorships.

I usually refer to current "liberals" as leftists. The problem is, people don't recognize the term. 

In Australia, the current government is formed by a coalition of the Liberal and the National parties and is considered to be conservative centre right. However, same sex marriage was legalised when they were in power. Australia is accepting immigrants and refugees but are putting those trying to reach here illegally on boats in off shore detention centres. The leftists are usually referred to the supporters of the Greens and the Labor party.

I have read there are towns in England that are 100% Muslim, and require adherence to their beliefs,

From Wikipedia:

Savile Town is perhaps most famous for its role in the British Muslim community and has experienced significant white flight, with the 2011 census recording a 93% Asian Muslim population and experiencing significant economic decline. As reported in 2016, Savile Town was the least indigenous town in the UK, with fewer than one per cent of its residents being White British. The area is home to the Markazi mosque, one of the largest mosques in Europe, which follows the Tablighi Jamaat school of thought.

Savile Towns demographics have been largely influenced by its industrial past which required an influx of workers from India and Pakistan who ended up migrating to the area due to the demand by the British factory owners. The nature of moving to a new unfamiliar country led to many over the years to settle in the same areas. Something that can be seen many other industrial towns in the UK.

Putin is a smart cookie, every word he says is targeted towards a specific audience.

This time around its meant for his pooch, Trump and his not so bright followers. And by the looks of it they are just lapping it up.

My feelings towards England are 100 percent reciprocal. When they stop hating my country, I'll stop hating theirs.

Who is ‘they’?

I don’t want this to sound dismissive, but most English people don’t know enough about Bulgaria to hate it. They don’t think about it long enough to have an opinion.

Don’t give English people more credit than they deserve. The majority haven’t got a clue about Bulgaria apart from remembering Berbatov, an unbelievably lazy but very gifted footballer.

I used to find some value in your posts, but you drifted into rather vitriolic posts that condemned basically anyone on the right, including libertarians (if one considers them right), 

Ironically, I’ve consciously been making an effort to arguing with the right with their tactics over the past few months.

The fact that you can condemn that, while still not a negative word about the extremists on your own team, still trying to place all the blame on liberals, simply shows you are partisan over a logical human being.

I’ve supported Trump when he says something I agree with. But these days the right would never be able to do that because they prioritize power over ethics.

I think to Putin, it's not about right or wrong. He is simply exploiting current sentiments in the western democracies inorder to whiteant it. At the same time justifying his existence as the head of an authoritarian state.

But don't blame Putin, or Xi for it. Those who exploit liberalism for their own self interest is as much to blame. There is an interesting debate currently in Australia/NZ regarding Israel Folau and his wife, who are deeply religious. They tweet in their personal capacities the teaching of the bible, yet their sport's body have had to reprimand them for fear of loosing sponsors. Money or liberalism? Where does it end? Since when does sponsors dictate which individual belief is acceptable?

I would submit to you that liberals generally speaking as well as the Trump hater and (Trump is nowhere near what we would call a traditional conservative)don’t know or understand the true definition of what real conservatism is.

Please define it for us.

This is good news, the sooner liberalism, progressivism and socialism disappears to the history books, the western world will start to improve.

Replaced by authoritarianism, revisionism, and fascism...the dictators and tyrants dream...

No thanks...

The US far-right fascination and adoration of Putin continues.

@Asakaze

Trump lost the popular vote by about 3,000,000 votes, so your argument about the majority of ordinary American people wanting a president like Trump isn't true.

This G20 summit looked like some kind of dark convention with all of the well known villains in attendance with the exception of Kim John Un and Darth Vader.

Tell me, Asakaze, do prefer to live in a democracy or to let a good old fashioned strongman (a dictator) like Stalin running things? It scares the hell out of me that there are apparently a lot of people who prefer the latter. Hopefully, Trump will not be re-elected, but who knows?

The Animal Kingdom, sorry, i mean the Untied Kingdom for example, puts out the image of being a "liberal democracy", a made up term that has no meaning, while in reality, they moved their border check point in France in order to prevent refugees from setting foot on their territory so they can't claim asylum.

This is false. The UK border checks have been in France since the opening of the Channel Tunnel. Similarly, the French border checks take place in London. This is to avoid the high speed train having to stop at the border whilst everyone on board has their documents checked; it has nothing to do with migrants and refugees.

They will blame the liberals and migrants

If they blame the liberals, it will be the first time in history. Franklin Roosevelt is still seen as a hero, despite the vast and lasting destruction he caused and his dictatorial regime. (He was perhaps the worst president for immigrants of any in history, as well - sending many to prison and even death for imaginary crimes.)

Before any discussion, we need to define what Liberalism means.

From Wikipedia:

Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on liberty, consent of the governed, and equality before the law. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but they generally support limited government, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), capitalism (free markets), democracy, secularism, gender equality, racial equality, internationalism, freedom of speech, freedom of the press and freedom of religion.

I can see quite a lot of things which the current Russian government are not a big fans of. Putin does not like liberalism is like saying my mum is a female.

He also charged that the influx of migrants to Europe has infringed on people's rights. "People live in their own country, according to their own traditions, why should it happen to them?" Putin said.

Being 'liberal' does not mean supporting an open border or high intake immigration policy. You can believe in liberalism and zero immigration at the same time.

The proper definition of liberal falls pretty much opposite to what Western nations (especially the US) call liberals today. Limited government? Capitalism? Freedom of speech? All are antithetical to current "liberals." We have to work with words as they are used, not as they should be used. I usually refer to current "liberals" as leftists. The problem is, people don't recognize the term. Shall we call them pseudo-liberals?

The current batch of pseudo-liberals cant really be described by any set of principles, as they don't have any. They pretend to have whatever principles are convenient for them at any moment. Their only consistent feature is the desire for power, and everything else falls in line with that goal.

The fact is, extremists are anti-societal, and are ruining us all. And anyone who objected to my post, without accepting the culpability of their own team which from the quote below you'll see I clearly did myself, is contributing to the problem, not helping it.

Grand total of righties on this board condemning extremism on their own team: 0.

I guess we see where they stand on the extremism scale.

The fact that you can condemn that, while still not a negative word about the extremists on your own team, still trying to place all the blame on liberals, simply shows you are partisan over a logical human being.

Sorry, but I am not playing that game. "Somebody that supports the same political candidate as you committed some crime. Renounce them at once!" The very demand is a roundabout way casting guilt on someone by association - however remote. Every decent person rejects thuggery. Demanding that someone vocally renounces it is a form of accusation. There is nothing conciliatory about it - it is a demand to publicly submit to your self-perceived higher moral authority. So... no, thanks.

Nor will I play the "both sides have extremists" game. One side is clearly more extreme than the other. Even you see it that way, though in a parallel universe sort of refraction.

He said Trump's election victory was driven by growing disenchantment with liberal policies.

Putin is dead wrong here. While I acknowledge that the electoral college determines who becomes president, it indisputably does not always determine the will of the people; the popular vote does.

Given that Clinton won just under three million more popular votes than Donny, it's very clear that Americans favor liberal policies.

Vast Russia contains the population of Italy. Nobody wants to move there - everyone wants to move out, particularly their money before someone snatches it. America has a birthrate below replacement, about 1.8. Without immigration, we'd b'é shrinking, just as Russia is. There is a reason for this. Laugh at liberalism all you want, but it certainly drawer the demographic.

perhaps to a lesser extent- britain and the terms 'lefties' & 'liberals' seem to have become interchangeable (again, in eng language).

A much, much lesser extent. One example is the Guardian newspaper which many on the left hammered as a sell-out ‘liberal’ rag for its attacks on Corbyn ( many of the metropolitan ‘liberals’ changed their tune after Labour performed better than expected in the general election ). Corbyn is not described as a liberal in the UK. He’s called a true Labour politician, a lefty or a commie among other names depending on your political persuasion. My mother calls him a sell-out and a Tory but she’s a Trot.

’Liberal’ is a word very well known for causing confusion between Brits and Americans when discussing politics.

@stormcrow

Russians after its invasion and annexation of Crimea, not to mention the murdering it's conducted on foreign soil with chemical weapons

And what the world should have done to the "Western liberal democracies" after FIVE aggressions (Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria) with hundreds of thousands killed, staging coups (Ukraine), meddling in elections, covering and providing for terrorists (Syria) or neonazis (Ukraine), staging false flag provocations (Novichok affair)?

I think the title of this article is misleading. What broadside?? If I say that days are getting shorter now and nights are getting longer it does not mean I fire broadsides against days or summer as a whole. Just stating the obvious.

And I'm amused how some people still unable to cope with a simple fact: the advent of people like Trump or the present Italian government is not the result of some diabolical KGB machinations, it is the result of complete dissatisfaction of many ordinary people with rotten political insiders like Clinton or faceless fat cat bureaucrats like Tusk and their insane policies. The West should not blame mirror for its ugly face.

@Farmboy

Russia has bad food, nothing to buy, and thugs on every corner

Who do I believe? You or dozens of thousands of people who visited Russia diring the World Cup and returned home absolutely delighted?

Nothing to buy? LOLLLL!! Tell it to Erdogan who is ready to ditch the F-35 program in favor of S-400. Or tell it to NASA who still buying Russian rockets.

20% of Russians want to leave Russia. Home sweet home is evidently not so sweet

Then why they do not leave? Borders are open, they can go anywhere any time. Or may be we should not take some sensationalist article at the face value?

Only Trump and Putin's staunchest followers would 'claim' Russia didn't meddle in US elections.

Only a blind man would believe he did.

you have more and more migrants not willing to fit in or uprooting and changing the culture of the natives, you will see a backlash and a revolt, nothing like WWII, but a different from of protectionism and a fight to maintain the culture and heritage.

What culture are you referring to? How is it being changed and who will fight alterations to said culture?

Mankind is nomadic and cultures change over the years, what was once considered tradition may later be considered barbaric. All cultures (even in Japan) are in a state of flux. It's the human condition.

The problem is with dictators like Putin etc is their grasp on "liberalism". Anything that deviates from their ultra-conservative outlook is seen as "liberal". So, gender equality, LGBT rights etc are trumpeted as a threat to the "norm" and headlines are generated, much discussion ensues. The people get riled up, intellectualism is demonized, scapegoats (like migrants/Muslims/Jews) for the various national ills are targeted and eventually.... well, we all know what happens next.

It's a very worrying state of affairs when equality and decency to your fellow human being, is under threat. I'm just glad I won't be around to see the inevitable outcome.

Sorry, but I am not playing that game. "Somebody that supports the same political candidate as you committed some crime. Renounce them at once!"

And you somehow think that is saying something different than this:

The nature of the left, in the US and UK at least, is that the right must be silenced and disenfranchised. If that's not extreme, then I don't know what is.

You won't renounce some unknown entity, but you will attribute fault to an entire group of unknown entities, and call them all extremists.

The very demand is a roundabout way casting guilt on someone by association - however remote.

Again, look at your comment. You've casted guilt on anyone asosciated with 'the left' in 'US and UK'. You did exactly what you are trying to condemn, without even being able to be objective enough to see that you were doing it yourself.

Nor will I play the "both sides have extremists" game. One side is clearly more extreme than the other.

I agree. Both sides have extremists, the difference is that the extremists have taken over the right, while on the left, they are just the noisiest.

Even you see it that way, though in a parallel universe sort of refraction.

Your attributing all of the blame to one side, without accepting that your own side has some serious problems as well, shows how partisan you are. As such, your posts can not be taken as objective. Anyone who thinks the problem is all on one side is clearly blinded by hyper-partisanship.

@Tangerine2000

More delusions from the island built on delusions.

English became international language during the Cold War, because of the power and influence of the United States. It was imposed on the so called Western bloc countries since they were aligned with America, the same way Russian was imposed on the former Eastern bloc countries because they were occupied by Russia.

Before that, English was spoken in Australia, NZ, Canada, USA, UK and few other countries, but that did not made it an international language. Spanish and French are spoken in more countries than English, yet neither Spanish nor French is an international language. Kids worldwide are not forced to learn French in schools, they are forced to learn English. English is mandatory since kindergarten in almost every country, including "enemy countries" like Russia and China. If America did not became a superpower, English would've been a 3rd grade language like Dutch, or at best, something like French or Spanish today.

I already said that most people in England don't know anything about BG. They also don't know anything about any country for that matter. I've seen studies and surveys that show that majority of English kids don't even know Europe is a continent, and i have seen some street interviews where people said that India is in France.

If you had read my full comment, slowly --- very, very slowly -- from the beginning, you would've read that i said that we are guilty by association because of that cold war term which i am not going to mention. Don't make me cite you examples to prove my case, i can write you an entire book only dedicated to examples of hate and misinformation towards my country. I am not going to do that because it will only irritate me more. Just talking about this irritates me.

By the way, they are not doing this only to us, they are doing it to pretty much everybody. I can't tell you how many examples i've seen of condescending and antagonizing reports filled with misinformation towards Australia in particular. Their coverage of America is almost always negative and hateful. Their bashing and smear of France is non-stop. Their attacks on Germany are also constant. I still remember that BBC documentary "make me a german", in which they portray germans like some dumb soulless robots compared to the us - the superior englishman.

The English monopoly of information is why big countries like France, Germany, Russia, China, even Japan have invested billions in their own English-version news, so they can have a means to get their side of the story out there. For smaller countries that can't invest billions to maintain an english-language news media, they are left at the mercy of the pseudo-journalists.

I want to say so much more, but i don't want to risk having my comment deleted.

It doesn’t take billions to have an English news media- why would it?

Of course, because groups formed around a common cause tend to have some common attributes. Otherwise, they wouldn't be a group, would they?

Ok, so the right should be judged as a whole by its extremists?

Maybe you're ok with that, but I'm not the same as the extremists on my team, and I have no problem calling them out. The Age of Outrage stuff is ridiculous. And yet, I still believe in the same leftist fundamentals I always did - a societal safety net, freedom of expression, and equality of opportunity. Just because there are some on the extreme far right side of the same side of the line as me does not mean that I approve of their actions or tactics. Yet you would paint us all with the same brush, and not only that, try to paint the problem as being entirely on the left, and nothing on the right.

Hyperpartisanship at it's best. It's the absence of logical thinking in favor of whichever side of the line the given argument lies up on. Unfortunately, hyper-partisanship also requires the abandonment of ethics. Something I personally am not willing to do. Apparently, by the lack of willingness of even a single rightie in this thread to call out the extremists on their team, ethics are a bit of a rarity these days.

Liberalism as it is being defined in the US and much of the west (i.e. radical statism) is indeed destructive.

Nope. The word 'liberalism/liberal' often refers to 'economic liberalism' in most euro/non anglo countries (i.e usually centre-right, pro EU/globalism/free market parties/ppl etc). Same in oz btw.

Mostly/only yanks & poms call liberals lefties.

Hitler was much admired for his attacks on liberalism, too.

Yes. That's a Godwin, right there.

But seeing as there's a few who want to see the return of the darkest days, it's appropriate.

@Jimizo

When did i give the impression that i hate America? I love America. My feelings towards England are 100 percent reciprocal. When they stop hating my country, I'll stop hating theirs.

@Asakaze

And there you have it?

Asakaze: "What do you mean?"

It refers to the fact that we are so fundamentally different. That's what I mean. You might as well be a 4-Ever-Trumper.

@Jimizo

Yes, they don't know anything about BG, yet we are all guilty by association to that other term that i don't want to mention because it's like a nail hammered to my brain.

Don't misunderstand, i couldn't care less about these . The only reason i care is because they have complete monopoly over information, and their domestic discourse gets amplified to the international scene, thereby influencing how foreign countries, who don't know anything about Europe, think of Europe. England won the lottery when America became a superpower because it made English the international language. That gave their vicious pseudo-press immense power. American media relies on English media for their European news. This gives the English media absolute power to literally dictate the European narrative, that through the US media spreads to the rest of the world. If they didn't speak English, or if English wasn't international language, i would not care one bit what these write, or say, or think.

I've explained this before, but i will explain it again. Here's how it works. A bunch of toothless ultra nationalists make up a lie, starts repeating it, others conform to it, it becomes a narrative, the media picks on it, repeat it, it becomes a mainstream narrative, eventually one way or the other foreign media picks on it, and it becomes an international narrative. This is how a lie becomes international narrative with the help of a monopolized source of information. Opposition voices are excluded, facts are never checked, just mindless robotic conformity perpetuated by ultra nationalistic media from a ultra nationalistic island nation.

If Bulgarian was the international language, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now, in fact, it is very likely that you would've seen other nationals raging online against "injustices" of being "unfairly portrayed".

I wonder why always a few nuts ones (Trump, Putin, Xi, and so on) can mess the life of 8,000,000,000 people and cannot care about our planet earth! Just 3-4 guys!

All these righties going on about the left falling apart, liberalism this, and blah blah that.

Look, I'm a leftie. There is no doubt about this. My whole life I've tended to the left. I believe in social safety nets, and equality of opportunity. I believe in treating people like human beings, and using the power of society to prop up our lowest members, rather looking at them as a drag on the upper echelons.

I'm also a capitalist. I've fought hard my whole life to get to the position I am in. I grew up rich in experience as a child, but poor in finance. I had to pick myself up by my own bootstraps. I am a firm believer in personal responsibility, including the responsibility of those in power to remain transparent in power, and to remain answerable to the people.

There are extremists on the left these days. There is no doubt of that. It's a direct response to the escalation of power of the extreme right in recent years. It's unfortunate, as when you must become an extremist to stoop to the level of extremists. That's what these people don't realize, is that they end up hurting the cause, rather than moving it forward. Extremism is never the way.

But the argument of the righties here seems to be 'their extremism is toxic, so you need to come over to ours'. They frame it as if the options are either extreme A or extreme B, and that A is broken because there are extremists on team A.

The fact is, the fundamental principles which define left from right still exist, and most people are more towards the center than either the extreme you condemn, or the extreme you support.

So the idea that the left is broken, and therefore Putin is right, is frankly, extremist thinking. And you're going to have to learn to live with the fact that us non-extremists denounce that which you profess, and condemn your extremism. You should be ashamed of yourselves, for the sake of humanity. I say that to extremists on both teams.

There are extremists on the left these days. There is no doubt of that. It's a direct response to the escalation of power of the extreme right in recent years.

In all fairness, you have it the other way around. Trump would never have been elected except for the uncompromising aggressiveness of the left. And now the left is ratcheting up the extremism. Expect another bigger reaction to match that.

If you want to lead to dialogue and moderation, do it by example. Words are cheap.

In all fairness, you have it the other way around. Trump would never have been elected except for the uncompromising aggressiveness of the left.

Which would have never happened if not for the uncompromising war machine of the right, combined with the attack on freedoms of the people, freedoms of the press, and freedoms of democracy.

Ok, now your turn to go on how those reactions were a result of something done by the left, ad infinitum.

You guys don't see that your very response proves my point.

And now the left is ratcheting up the extremism. Expect another bigger reaction to match that.

As is the right ratcheting up the extremism. Look at the comments in this thread - support of Putin's condemnation of polices of the left - which let's remember have never changed from social safety issues, and equal opportunity. Hardly an offence of morality.

The fact is, extremists are anti-societal, and are ruining us all. And anyone who objected to my post, without accepting the culpability of their own team which from the quote below you'll see I clearly did myself, is contributing to the problem, not helping it.

Why extremism of the left is to be condemned:

There are extremists on the left these days. There is no doubt of that. It's a direct response to the escalation of power of the extreme right in recent years. It's unfortunate, as when you must become an extremist to stoop to the level of extremists. That's what these people don't realize, is that they end up hurting the cause, rather than moving it forward. Extremism is never the way.

Putin, despotically presiding over the unholy gangster state of Russia gets no respect from me, but he is right to point out the crisis of unwanted immigrants to Western Europe. Size matters and numbers count: there have been too many and they have come too quickly making assimilation very difficult, thus creating social unrest among native populations who feel threatened by the sudden influx of the Other with their foreign languages, customs and cultures. The growing disparity between the rich and poor triggered by globalization and the aggressive actions of international meddlers, like the USUK, France et al. who have given succor to vicious dictators, supported military coups and stirred up rebellions, civil wars and conflicts in Africa the Middle East and Central America over the last 40 years have finally resulted in the recent waves of humanity fleeing from the hell on earth that those rich countries have, inadvertently or not, helped to create. Nobody has yet found solutions, least of all the Kremlin kibitzer.

Which would have never happened if not for the uncompromising war machine of the right, combined with the attack on freedoms of the people, freedoms of the press, and freedoms of democracy.

Ok, now your turn to go on how those reactions were a result of something done by the left, ad infinitum.

No, I would say that all of those things describe what the left has been doing for years now. The right is equally culpable is war-mongering - that's a truly bipartisan effort. The right doesn't do much better in freedoms. But the right is vastly better that the left in freedom of the press, which the left essentially doesn't believe is worth having.

I used to find some value in your posts, but you drifted into rather vitriolic posts that condemned basically anyone on the right, including libertarians (if one considers them right), At least you are not physically assaulting anyone, but you certainly have spoken of people in one political camp in dehumanizing terms that would encourage physical assault. The nature of the left, in the US and UK at least, is that the right must be silenced and disenfranchised. If that's not extreme, then I don't know what is. It is also a recipe for real violence down the line.

Russia meddling in U.S. elections was common dinner table discussion in the late '50s & early '60s. The Cold War never really ended, it just changed shape and focus. Granted, the threat of mutually assured destruction doesn't seem as threatening as it once was, but it's still there.

Save your lame attempts to show indignation over 2016 meddling: It's been going on for decades. If you really cared this would have been a problem for you before that election. Clinton is the 'mastermind' behind the Trump 'Pied Piper' strategy and she lost to an orange-topped carnival barker who decided to moonlight as a political novice.

Russia will meddle in the next election and the one after that too. It's a fact of life just as it's a fact of life that the U.S. pushes for regime change all over the Middle East and even in our backyard, South America. And the U.S. meddles in Russian politics as well. Remember Yeltsin? He was a product of the Reagan administration meddling in their political process. Don't expect Russia, a powerful country both economically and militarily, to do nothing while the U.S. runs rampant over the interests of the rest of the world.

If none of this bothers you and you don't speak out against all of it, focusing your indignation and rage on the outcome of one election is obviously contrived and simply just childish.

You won't renounce some unknown entity, but you will attribute fault to an entire group of unknown entities, and call them all extremists.

Of course, because groups formed around a common cause tend to have some common attributes. Otherwise, they wouldn't be a group, would they?

And that really has nothing to do with demanding other people perform certain actions (i.e. disavowing) as you require, like trained seals.

The current batch of pseudo-liberals cant really be described by any set of principles, as they don't have any. They pretend to have whatever principles are convenient for them at any moment. Their only consistent feature is the desire for power, and everything else falls in line with that goal.

Exactly!

And they have been doing all they can to destroy the Christian (not Judeo-Christian!) values upon which Western traditions and morality are based on.

Time to move away from this Liberal World Order.

Nor will I play the "both sides have extremists" game. One side is clearly more extreme than the other. Even you see it that way, though in a parallel universe sort of refraction.

This is true, the right has far more extremists than the left.

He ( Putin ) said the claims of Russian meddling in the U.S. election were part of the agenda of his talk with Trump.

Google interfered more than the Russians.

Are you proud, Mitch? Are you proud, Lindsey? Are you proud Congressional Republicans? A Russian thug owns your moronic leader, lock, stock, and barrel.

That statement has no basis in reality.

@zichi

That is 100% correct. Even the English fans had praise

Thank you. We disagree on most subjects, nevertheless you are objective. My regards.

@stormcrow

Trump lost the popular vote by about 3,000,000 votes, so your argument about the majority of ordinary American people wanting a president like Trump isn't true

I know the figures, I never claimed that Trump got more votes. My point is that many millions of ordinary Americans voted for political nobody just not to see the epitome of deep-seated political corruption and sleaze as the new president. Why? Again, "they were manipulated by KGB operatives and hackers"? Or may be we admit that something is really wrong with the U.S. political system, people see it and react accordingly?

Tell me, Asakaze, do prefer to live in a democracy or to let a good old fashioned strongman

What do you expect from people if democracies fail to provide the basics: normal level of life for hard work and security, when many areas in big cities in France or Germany are too dangerous for locals with the police unable to protect effectively due to political correctness?

@Asakaze Do you prefer to live in a democracy or a dictatorship?

Asakaze: "What do you expect from people if democracies fail to provide the basics: normal level of life for hard work and security, when many areas in big cities in France or Germany are too dangerous for locals with the police unable to protect effectively due to political correctness?"

And there you have it. Well, as for myself, I prefer not to live in such a police state.

I was in Russia in 1991 and there were many items that were on sale even then.

I bought a tray of the best caviar for starters!

Putin is spot on!

5 million immigrants into Germany in 10 years.

A million immigrants into the UK, most likely double that!

Europe is fast becoming a mess.

London has a stabbing almost every second day and the majority of those killings are immigrants killing other immigrants!

I know people living in Europe that are first or second generation immigrants and they are also appalled by the unbridled immigration.

Neither Merkel nor May live in the inner city but if they were.....

@Laguna: America has a birthrate below replacement, about 1.8. Without immigration, we'd b'é shrinking

So a nations population must of necessity continuously expand forever? I’m not sure environmentalists in the Democrat party who fervently believe that more people mean more environmental destruction would support that idea.

I would submit to you that liberals generally speaking as well as the Trump hater and (Trump is nowhere near what we would call a traditional conservative)don’t know or understand the true definition of what real conservatism is.

So very true. Trump doesn’t have a governing philosophy per se. He just seems to know that he must try to stop the erosion to America caused by neo-Marxism. I would doubt that Trump could even identify neo-Marxism as the driving force behind the Lefts undermining of the America governing philosophy which is grounded in respect for individual rights - rights that cannot be overturned by a democratic vote. Of course that original founding idea doesn’t exist in America anymore. The Lefts tribalism has displaced individual rights as the foundation of the nations governing ideal. It is not possible to push for government provided rights that are based on identity without working to undermine the rights of individuals in the face of overwhelming government power. Trump seems to understand that but I have yet to hear him overtly state that observation.

It is pathetic seeing Putin a guy who is basically a dictator having more intellectual capacity than the liberals around the world. The 20 liberal democrat party presidential candidates understand less about freedom than Putin, that is sad. He is right, Liberalism is dying, it is basically a tyranny like feudalism, where the rulers are these liberal elites and their cohorts rule over their victims. Even China, a communist nation has been rolling back liberalism for the last couple of decades, at least economically. Problem with liberalism dying is its followers are not going to go quietly.

@Commanteer, I agree, Strangerland got it the wrong way around.

@Ilovecoffee

England won the lottery when America became a superpower because it made English the international language.

You don't seem to have any understanding of how English became an international language.

America became the world's superpower through WWII. Long before that, English was already a world language. English was already a native language in Australia, New Zealand, Canada, South Africa and countless parts of the British Empire. Not to forget that large swathes of India and Africa also used English.

Jimizo is right. I'm sorry to say that British people never think about Bulgaria. To be honest, they don't know anything about it. They don't have any ill will towards Bulgaria or Bulgarians.

In Osaka he did not pronounce liberatarian but just Karl Marx as dead.

What culture are you referring to?

Everyone that comes to my country.

How is it being changed and who will fight alterations to said culture?

Look at Germany, Sweden, prime examples of how the migrant nation is destroying and hollowing out the native population slowly.

Mankind is nomadic and cultures change over the years, what was once considered tradition may later be considered barbaric. All cultures (even in Japan) are in a state of flux. It's the human condition.

Ok, that’s the liberal globalist idea. I believe in borders sovereignty. There is no way ANY Muslim country would allow hundreds and thousands of Christian, Jewish or Atheists to overrun and take over their country, they just wouldn't allow it-period! And we shouldn’t either, it has nothing to do with racism, more with assimilation.

The problem is with dictators like Putin etc is their grasp on "liberalism".

No, the problem is with the liberal leaders of Europe that think and decide that they know what’s best and instead of listening to the masses, they push their open borders migrant policies on the nations and as long as that happens, the far right and the populace movement will only grow as well as the discontent and hatred and that’s something else no one wants to see, but you can’t blame the natives for have a complete negative attitude towards immigration.

It's a very worrying state of affairs when equality and decency to your fellow human being, is under threat. I'm just glad I won't be around to see the inevitable outcome.

Well, I will be and I pray that it won’t get ugly, but I have a feeling it will get bad sooner rather than later.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day...

@Ilovecoffee

I see what you are doing.

As a European, you don't know much about European history. English was an international language by the early 1800s when Napolean had been defeated and the Pax Britannica began. English as a language in commerce/diplomacy was used more than French, Spanish and German from that point on. English became the Lingua Franca (THE World Language) at the end of the First World War when the Treaty of Versailles was written in English as well as French. I know you are going to try and ingore historical facts and try and force your own version.

I have noticed that many of your comments always contain these types of phrases, when talking about the UK:

" delusions from the island built on delusions, delusional syndrome, ignorant island, arrogant country"

You have a massive chip on your shoulder. The way you write about the UK, you come across as someone who's never been there and talked to the actual people who live there. You just sound like someone who has gorged themselves on media and are just simply parroting old worn-out tropes.

i can write you an entire book only dedicated to examples of hate and misinformation towards my country.*

I have no idea, and I am not interested in knowing what this offensive term is. British people in general don't know it, and wouldn't wish to. But I understand it is important for you to keep talking about it and never let it go so that you can have your victim complex. I believe you are only interested in beating others around the head for imagined slights.

Don't belittle your country as being an eternal victim. Bulgaria deserves more than that. It is a beautiful country with a rich culture.

Liberalism as it is being defined in the US and much of the west (i.e. radical statism) is indeed destructive. These people are coasting on the hard work of previous generations as they dismantle everything that made the country successful in the first place.

Like a house where the residents are removing support beams one by one to feed the fireplace, it won't immediately collapse. But one day a strong wind will come along, and the weakened structure will crumble, surprising everyone. And no doubt, they will blame the wind.

Clearly we don't have a consensus of what words mean. I dare say it’s why they are used. It’s called politics. Its done so that special interests can get what they want through negotiations while the other side can sort of save face. Thus society breaks down, ‘liberalism’ takes over. How about Peoples Democratic Republics? All Marxist. Where’s the democracy there? All sounds good. All a great way to destroy strong societies. Maybe Bhutan IS better.

Putin is spot on.

stormcrow

And there you have it.

What do you mean? I live in Japan, what do I "have"? "There"? Japan is a democracy, but I don't want to become it like France or Germany where locals are just afraid of going into certain areas of big cities. And I'm happy that Japan did not take part in criminal aggressions against Iraq or Libya under completely deceitful pretext of "bringing democracy and freedom".

Anyway, nice to see you have no objections to other parts of my previous posts.

Putin was talking about Chancellor Angela Merkel.

I don’t know that there are more extremists on the right. But the extremists on the right hold power, while those on the left don’t.

"The liberal idea has started eating itself," Putin said at a news conference.

This is good news, the sooner liberalism, progressivism and socialism disappears to the history books, the western world will start to improve.

He also charged that the influx of migrants to Europe has infringed on people's rights. "People live in their own country, according to their own traditions, why should it happen to them?" Putin said.

The countries that have had to deal with mass migration have also seen the rise of crime and an increase in the number of people on welfare - the leaders that have allowed this ruination love to brag about their liberalism, progressivism and socialist policies.

zichi:

The 10 Most Liberal Countries Of The World

America does not even get a sniff of the cake.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-10-most-liberal-countries-of-the-world.html

You got to be kidding. New Zealand, where people are jailed for even possessing a video, where books by Jordan Peterson are banned, at the top of the list? And further down Canada with its forced gender pronouns and Sweden with its radical speech control?

Either you did not look at list, or you should do some checking. I can live with Switzerland the top, but putting a lot of the SWJ paradises that I see there ahead of the US is bizarre.

Replaced by authoritarianism, revisionism, and fascism...

All tenants and under the umbrella of Liberalism....add to that political correctness...only liberals can make saying: “Mankind” a crime.

the dictators and tyrants dream...

the previous administration....

The US far-right fascination and adoration of Putin continues

What? Lol

Hitler was much admired for his attacks on liberalism, too.

Millions did and millions didn’t.

But seeing as there's a few who want to see the return of the darkest days, it's appropriate.

Not in the western world, but if the out of control immigration laws are not fixed and you have more and more migrants not willing to fit in or uprooting and changing the culture of the natives, you will see a backlash and a revolt, nothing like WWII, but a different from of protectionism and a fight to maintain the culture and heritage.

The Trump supporters who distort the use of the word liberalism are also the ones who have no clue what it actually means.

I would submit to you that liberals generally speaking as well as the Trump hater and (Trump is nowhere near what we would call a traditional conservative)don’t know or understand the true definition of what real conservatism is.

Putin is simply telling it like it is in this article.

Well Putin, you voted for him, you got him

Pssst, Lamilly - Putin didn't vote for him.

Russia has bad food...

What, you don't like borscht or beef stroganoff?

... nothing to buy

What, you don't like vodka or fighter jets?

Putin is dead wrong here.

I don’t think he’s really that wrong. Liberal policies in their purest form as now being implemented in States like California and NY have been devastating, you know have more people leaving than moving there and in California’s case, those people are being replaced by less skilled and less immigrated migrants and illegals, not to mention the State being a sanctuary city doesn’t help it at all at determining who’s legal and who is a criminal, who is entitled to receive public assistance paid for by the tax payer, which more and more people are rejecting outright and have finally reached a limit and decided all together to leave the State. So I do very much think in that regard, he’s definitely right.

While I acknowledge that the electoral college determines who becomes president, it indisputably does not always determine the will of the people; the popular vote does. 

Which is a good thing.

https://youtu.be/JFGhX0hLy6E

Given that Clinton won just under three million more popular votes than Donny, it's very clear that Americans favor liberal policies.

That’s not necessarily true, because Clinton didn’t get as many votes in the flyover states predominately the coastal areas. Add to that, people that don’t believe in people that weren’t happy with her candidacy that decided not to come out and vote for her.

https://search.yahoo.co.jp/image/search?p=two+maps+hillary+vs+trump+us&pcarrier=ソフトバンク&pmcc=440&pmnc=20&ei=UTF-8&fr=ipad#mode%3Ddetail%26index%3D7%26st%3D268

Liberalism as it is being defined in the US and much of the west (i.e. radical statism) is indeed destructive. These people are coasting on the hard work of previous generations as they dismantle everything that made the country successful in the first place

Which is the reason why all over the Western world you are seeing more conservative, far right and the populace movement growing out of the discontent with the establishment on immigrants, migrants, political correctness and I don’t see that surge subsiding.

Prefect distortion of the word liberalism and facts has described in my previous comment. Some people just bend the meaning for their political agenda.

Yeah, liberals always say that, you don’t understand, it’s not like this, you’re distorting and bending the meaning as if people that are against liberalism are just dumb, can’t think or read or find out information by themselves, again, another reason for the growing pushback and discontent.